Liza Holland [00:00:02]:
Welcome to education perspectives. I am your host, Liza Holland. This is a podcast that explores the role of education in our society from a variety of lenses. Education needs to evolve to meet the needs of today and the future. Solving such huge issues requires understanding. Join me as we begin to explore the many perspectives of education.
Liza Holland [00:00:28]:
Kiauna Browning Coleman is an educator, coach, and innovator who believes in creating spaces that are safe, comfortable, and conducive to learning and growth in all aspects of life for all people, no matter what their age. She is a mom of 3 kids and currently pursuing a doctorate in education instruction and administration at the University of Kentucky, focusing on how systems and structures kill innovation in education. She has experience as a mentor to new and experienced teachers and has worked in Fayette County Public Schools since 2012 as a teacher. She is currently also working as a district deeper learning initiative coach, helping to create change in educational practices in FCPS. She has helped design curriculum framework, managed and trained teams of educators and develop professional development programs. She is also a business owner for, oh, look, cookies, which was founded in 2022. In addition to managing the social media presence and operations, she also leads a team of youth entrepreneurs, the Kentucky Kids. So, Kiauna, welcome.
Liza Holland [00:01:41]:
We are so glad to have you on Education Perspectives.
Kiauna Coleman [00:01:44]:
Thank you for having me.
Liza Holland [00:01:46]:
So I gotta kick you off with the, the big question. From a 30,000 foot view, in your opinion, why do we, as a society, invest in education?
Kiauna Coleman [00:01:57]:
I think we invest in education because our children are our future. We are working to make sure that our world can continue on in a positive way. And I know one thing that I used to say in the beginning of my career and why I wanted to be a teacher is that we are trying to educate the next civilians, and the best way to do that is to give them a foundation that they can really build off of. And as someone who works mostly with primary students at our lowest levels, it's important to really start giving them that foundation, so investing in education early is important.
Liza Holland [00:02:36]:
Excellent answer. Excellent answer. Tell us a little bit about your journey. What drew you to education?
Kiauna Coleman [00:02:41]:
Okay. Well, I decided really young that I wanted to be a teacher. Originally, I actually wanted to be a pediatric psychiatrist. I was like, I'm gonna go to school. I'm gonna be a doctor. And that, you know, the joy of really working with kids and giving them the foundation kind of took over, which is why I decided to switch over to education. And, you know, at a very young age, I think I was probably 14 or 15 is when I decided that I wanted to be a teacher. I graduated at 16, went to the University of Louisville, started my education career there, and I finished at EKU with my bachelor's in elementary education with an emphasis in kindergarten, And, immediately, I graduated.
Kiauna Coleman [00:03:28]:
So I graduated May 5th, I think it was, 2012 with my elementary degree. And I kid you not, within, what, 2 days? Saturday? Sunday, Monday, I was back in school working on my master's in literacy. And I knew I kind of knew that my, you know, even before I started my career that eventually I was gonna want to go into leadership. And so, I kind of teetered. I did this teetering for about a year of, like, am I gonna get my literacy specialist? Am I going to, get my instructional leadership degree? And so I kinda teetered back and forth, and my adviser was, like, why don't you just do both? Like, you can do both in the same time frame. You already have all of these classes for literacy, so we can just kinda tack that on. So I was able to do both, and I I finally finished that up, you know, had the 3rd baby in the process. Well, I think I had 2 babies in the process of that, and finally finished that in 2015.
Kiauna Coleman [00:04:20]:
And, you know, I have my principal certification that I did during COVID. In 10 months in 10 months, I did that degree. Wow. Yeah.
Liza Holland [00:04:28]:
You're quite the student.
Kiauna Coleman [00:04:29]:
Yes. I'd say I tell people, I'm like, I'm literally a career student.
Liza Holland [00:04:33]:
I love it. If I
Kiauna Coleman [00:04:34]:
didn't have to work full time, I'd probably just be in school full time, but I do both. I do both full time. And, you know, now I'm working on my EDD, my doctorate in instruction administration, focusing on how systems and structures in education stifle and kill innovation and teacher agency agency in education.
Liza Holland [00:04:53]:
Oh, my gosh. Tell me more about that because, boy, I'm right there with you.
Kiauna Coleman [00:04:57]:
You know a little bit about my story. There have been a lot of obstacles in the process of trying to educate our students, especially our marginalized students, our black and brown students. And I had the pleasure of working with Fayette County Public Schools this year for the last 2 years on their deeper learning initiative as a coach, and learning about deeper learning and learning about our portrait of a graduate and how we can give our kids a more holistic approach to their educational system. And I've been a huge advocate in doing that starting in kindergarten. You know, I advocate it for it to start sooner than that. Right? Like, how can we as public educators get to our students in preschool? How can we get to them before they get to preschool? But my, you know, kind of zone is kindergarten, so I've been really advocating for let's start in kindergarten. Let's not wait till they get to middle school. Let's not wait till they get to high school to ask them what they wanna be, what they wanna do when they grow up.
Kiauna Coleman [00:05:56]:
Let's start now. So through that process, through the deeper learning process, I was able to, you know, learn more about how to reach my kids in a way that best suits them, but there were several obstacles in, you know, administrative levels that were just kind of out of my control in what I was and wasn't allowed to do this year in the classroom, so I had to kind of reel back this idea of let's open the doors to our students as young as we can. Let's, you know, give them a more hands on approach to their education sooner than later. You know? Let's not wait till it's too late to give them that. But, you know, even though I wasn't able to do it on the scale that I wanted to, I was able to open the world to them and give them some opportunity to see Korean language. Like, that was the one place that I decided to kind of focus my my work this year is opening up the world to my students and showing them there's more than the side of town that you live on. There's more than this 2 or 3 mile block that, and I want you to see it before it's too late. Right? So, because of the obstacles that I met and have met, I mean, there's, you you know, I could tell you a million stories of things, initiatives that I've tried to put into place as a teacher, and I've taught k through 3.
Kiauna Coleman [00:07:18]:
But one thing that I continuously see is that it takes one person to stop the process of change, for many students. And so my research originally was going to be around creating innovative processes and change processes in education and how teachers with voice can internally give their students a voice and create an education that matters to the students the most. But again, because of those obstacles, that research has kind of changed to how do the structures that are currently in place stop the innovation that needs to happen for our students, especially our black and brown students, because we just in my opinion, we aren't giving them what they need.
Liza Holland [00:08:05]:
Do you have any highlights of that that you'd like to share with us? Because I think you're right. I mean, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and doubling down and expecting to to get different results. And so I'd love to hear if you have any insights that you stumbled upon so far that we could share with listeners and, and hopefully administrators who might be thinking about, that status quo works?
Kiauna Coleman [00:08:31]:
So I think the work has to start. You know, one of the reasons I was really excited to join the deeper learning process was because it gave teachers voice. We are the ones that are in the classroom with the students. We're in the trenches. We're doing it every day. We're trying to plan things that are different and fun, and, you know, we're dealing with a different type of person than who we were as students and who our administrators were as students. Our kids are growing up in a very, I mean, vastly different world since COVID. And I hate to blame COVID because COVID was a great time for me, you know, not for everybody.
Kiauna Coleman [00:09:09]:
But for me, I'd love to be at home. You know, I recognize that that's not everybody's experience, and we are dealing with a different type of student in 2024 and beyond than we were prior to COVID. And even even prior to COVID, I think we were different dealing with different kids than what we were as kids. Right? And that we should always keep it fresh and keep it funky and keep things moving as opposed to this kind of stagnant educational traditional system that we've stuck with. And so I think that if I had to, you know, really voice what we need to do differently is give teachers their voice back, trust teachers to be the educational experts that we are. A lot of us have multiple degrees. A lot of us were still in the era of you have to have a master's within 10 years, so we've done a lot of research, and we've done a lot of educating and professional development of ourselves. We most teachers that I know are professional learners ourselves, And so we are always willing to better ourselves and make ourselves better for our students because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.
Kiauna Coleman [00:10:17]:
Right? But if I had to say one thing is we have to change the way that we plan going forward because if we don't, we're we're not gonna see different results. And that was one thing that I saw in my classroom this year is, you know, I busted my butt as much as I could and did as many new things that I was allowed to do and I could get away with, but to me, it wasn't enough, and our kids deserve more. So if I had to, you know, kind of yell into the ether is, let's get on the new train of thought of how we educate our kids and give teachers the opportunity to help create that.
Liza Holland [00:10:58]:
What do you think that looks like? You know, if you could wave a magic wand and you were in charge of your building today, would that be mean changing up the schedule? Would it mean more planning time individually or collaboratively? What types of things do you think we might be considering as we move forward to try to transform school?
Kiauna Coleman [00:11:22]:
So, again, I mean, there's a million structures, right, like, that we could look at. But I think number 1 has to be reinventing this top down approach. Obviously, there are laws and there are standards, and I'm, you know, I'm all for because it in, you know, it makes sure that kids are getting the basics. Right? Like, I agree with the a lot of those things, but this top down approach really needs to kinda be reinnovated and rethought in more of bottom up approach. And, again, I'm an advocate for not only teacher voice, but also student voice. So talking to our kids, what do you need? What are your interests? What do you wanna learn? What do you kinda wanna look at? But I think, you know, having collaborative conversations with all stakeholders, students, teachers, the community, families, having opportunities for families and community to understand how they can support students and how they can support the teachers and how they can support the administrators. The administrators have a hard job, too. Principals have a hard job.
Kiauna Coleman [00:12:28]:
You know, I have my principalship. You know. I use the the excuse of not taking my test to not have to go get a job in administration because I think it's probably one of the worst jobs in America, and it's a hard job. But I think we've got to switch up what conversations we're having, who's in the conversation. I think we do need to look at our schedules and stop boxing ourselves into something that gives less freedom for all students, teachers, administrators, whoever. We kind of have to rethink how we structure our schools, whether that's combining grades and thinking more from a standards based view as opposed to a age level point of view, and giving our kids an opportunity to learn from each other and having a more collaborative environment for our students even, I think it's gonna be very important. So, I mean, you know, if I had to think of my top 2, that would probably be it. The way we think about things, the conversations that we're having, who's in those conversations, as well as how we structure the school day and even the school year.
Liza Holland [00:13:37]:
Well, Keanna, especially because you mentioned your degree in literacy as well, and you're dealing with that very young population who are just beginning to learn how to read, There's a lot of discussion out there about literacy and what works and what doesn't, and and it really seems like a lot of our black and brown children are whatever it is, we haven't been presenting it in quite the right way to be able to get them up to speed as fast as the system wants them to be. Can you talk about that a little bit and see if, you could share any new things that you found that are better with some of your students or just kinda have your thoughts on that? Yeah. So one thing that I noticed with my black and brown
Kiauna Coleman [00:14:18]:
students, especially the population that I'm working with currently, is that a lot of the gap for me, and I kind of use this from the perspective as a mom too, and I'll explain why, It all kind of comes down to oral language, and what I notice is that my students with low oral language or low vocabulary, to my students who struggle just having a basic conversation back and forth, you know, even just an age appropriate conversation. What's your favorite color? What do you like to do? They really struggle to get that information out. And so that's what I'm noticing is that there's a huge gap in oral language. Now whether that's, you know, they're not having those conversations at home or they just haven't had the exposure to people other than who is at home. I think we really need to to kinda hone in on that, and one of the things that I've kinda suggested, I'm I'm hoping that somebody will pick up on this, is that our kids, just like our EL kids get, additional help in language, in learning English language, our black and brown students, especially those with low language, should also be getting additional help in oral language because that's one of the areas that I've kinda noticed that is there's just a big gap in it. And once I've noticed as a teacher, the differences between, like, my black children at home is that I talk talk talk talk talk talk talk to them and make them talk, talk, talk, talk, talk back to me. So there's kind of this ongoing conversation about, tell me about your day. What was the peak of your day? What was the valley of your day? And really introducing them that or those oral language skills from birth even when they're in the womb and just talking to them as if they are children and not babies and that babbling.
Kiauna Coleman [00:16:12]:
So that's one of the things that I've really really noticed and really not even just with my Black and Brown kids, but in particular, I noticed it across the board with a lot of kids. I've worked in different economic status schools, high and low and everything in between, kids from this side of town and kids from that side of town, but just in general, oral language for all students. And one of the things that I feel like has been highlighted, and for me, is that when we look at our testing, our Hispanic children are outscoring our black children, and it feels like that's the foundation that we really need to be building for them is looking at oral language. And another thing that if I'm thinking about, like, my literacy perspective, right, like, my education and literacy currently, which I I think it's kinda been squashed at this point, but our legislators were trying to create laws that stop teachers from using certain language when teaching our kids how to read, such as what does it sound like? What does it look like? And really trying to connect what they're seeing, what they already know, and I I think that would be a huge disservice. Hopefully, it's been squashed at this point, but I think it would be a huge disservice to our students, especially our Black and Brown students, to stop allowing teachers to use certain language that allows them to make connections. I'm all for research based instruction, but let's research it. Let's see how it actually helps. If it's not being if it hasn't been researched at this point, let's get on it and see what differences we can make, But, yeah, that's one of the things that I've really seen is their oral language because they don't have the I mean, even things as simple we're talking about things as simple as, like, they don't have vocabulary words for, like, what animal do you see? And it'd be a giraffe, and they don't know they've never seen a giraffe.
Kiauna Coleman [00:18:03]:
They haven't had the experience of going to the zoo or even seeing it on TV, or even if they have seen it, like, on a YouTube video, maybe it was just some music, there was just music to it, and nobody ever said, oh, that's a giraffe. You know, we're talking about very simple things, And again, not just my black and brown students, but just across the board. I think we've kind of lost this connection of using our oral language to help connect to to reading and
Liza Holland [00:18:29]:
writing. Well, that says to me that we really do need to get back to it takes a village because there's a lot of time outside of the school day. And so as adults, as we interact with younger kids and well, all kids for that matter, really looking at maybe asking better questions and trying to increase that vocabulary. And if you see an uncertain look when you use a word said, you know what that means? It kinda means this. Because, you know, you're so right. That same type of a of a situation comes up when you're looking to learn a foreign language. I am 11, an 11 year old proficient in Swedish. Okay.
Liza Holland [00:19:11]:
Okay? So because I learned it when I was with my grandmother that summer. And I can speak it pretty darn well, but I do not have any of the vocabulary for, like, the business world or anything like that. So when I'm speaking to adults now, when I go to my mother's home country, I talk around it, and I describe things that are kind of close to it to be able to get my point across. But vocabulary is super important.
Kiauna Coleman [00:19:37]:
Yes. Yes. And I, I took Spanish from 6th to, I don't know, 10th grade maybe. I graduated early, so I kinda cut myself off there. Yeah. And I have a lot of vocabulary, but I cannot string those words together. All 3 of my kids have gone through some level of Spanish immersion, and I tried to encourage them by learning my, you know, little things myself. So I'll learn short phrases and things and but that's kind of the extent, and it's like, okay.
Kiauna Coleman [00:20:05]:
Mommy needs to get to the point where she can speak on a professional level to families even. So through my own learning, I'm trying to encourage my kids to work on their Spanish too.
Liza Holland [00:20:15]:
I totally get it. I'm in exactly the same boat. I've worked with a largely Spanish speaking population, and I tried so hard. And so I'm still trying, and I just at some point, you start out with they appreciate the fact that you're trying
Kiauna Coleman [00:20:29]:
Yes.
Liza Holland [00:20:30]:
And try to, try to get people to help you along. But I think that that you know, the skills break up differently. And if they can understand the oral language first, it'll it'll make that written language and the the stuff that you read a whole lot easier. That's great. So, you know, we've talked a little bit already about challenges, but as you think of your role as a teacher right now, what do you find your biggest challenges to be?
Kiauna Coleman [00:20:58]:
I think that as someone who is opinionated in how things should look, right, I have this idea of what my classroom, how my classroom should run, which I have some level of control over, but I have ideas about how a school should be run. And I think one of the challenges that I face as a teacher, I think it just all comes back to not having a voice. You know? By no means do I know everything. You know? I will never claim
Liza Holland [00:21:32]:
that.
Kiauna Coleman [00:21:32]:
But I do feel like I know a little bit about how a classroom should be run at this point, at least a primary classroom. And I think what I really struggle with as a teacher is that when I hear things or hear rules or new regulations that, hey, we've gotta start doing this. I struggle with questioning, right, like that status quo of, like, I hear you, and I accept what you're saying, but can you please give me the why behind it? Like, I really wanna understand why. And if the why makes sense, great. I'll do it. If it doesn't make sense, then I kinda get into this, like, fix it mode of, like, okay. How can we make this more efficient? How can we make this make more sense? And how can we, like, take things off the plate and combine systems and structures? And how can we say, okay, if we know a child is gonna be absent, how are we communicating with the parent? Right? That's a system. If we know a child is chronically absent, how are we communicating with the parent? How are we communicating internally as a school with our student support team? And whose job is it and whose turn is it to take a step to the parent to say, Okay, hey, I noticed so and so is not here today.
Kiauna Coleman [00:22:59]:
What can I do to help you? And, how can we create a structure that is efficient and proactive as opposed to waiting for kind of, like, this reactive moment of, like, oh, no. Susie's been gone for 20 days. Who has done something? And then we're all kind of, you know, passing the buck, and it wasn't my job. It wasn't my job. So really, like, trying to find ways to be proactive and efficient in how we are running our structure. So I I really struggle as a teacher. Again, it all kinda comes back to structures and systems only. I I struggle when I see systems that are not streamlined.
Kiauna Coleman [00:23:34]:
You know, I've worked in many schools in Lexington, and I've seen great ways that it's been done, and I've seen not so great ways. And I just kinda wanna be like, let me throw let me throw a suggestion out there. Please take the suggestion because I promise it works. I've seen it work. And then I'd struggle with, like, everybody's like, we don't wanna do that. And I struggle with that as both a teacher and a parent. You know, I'm always gonna be a big advocate and a voice for my own for my own babies, and I and my kids' schools know that when I come around, I'm gonna have something to say. So just kind of, like, making sure that my opinions are also streamlined and efficient and proactive and helpful.
Liza Holland [00:24:14]:
I like that so much. So we've talked a lot about systems and whatnot. What would you like for decision makers to know? And the decision makers can be all the way up to legislators. It could be administrators. It could be voters. You choose. What what would you like for decision makers around education to know?
Kiauna Coleman [00:24:42]:
I think that it's important for everybody, the whole world, to know that we are here for the kids. We love our kids. We love them like they're our own. We are their parent while they're at school, and we're gonna do everything in our power to make sure that they are getting what they're getting. And I think that it is important for us, again, to work together, You know, if and I understand that everybody has a job to do. Right? Like, everybody's got a boss. Everybody's trying to meet the next regulation, the next rule, but talk to us. Talk to those of us who are there and who are doing it every single day.
Kiauna Coleman [00:25:23]:
I think we teachers aren't often given the opportunity to collaborate up the chain. So one thing, like, I appreciate about deeper learning was that we, for once, were able to see our colleagues from all levels across the district. And can you imagine what that would look like if we were able to do that across the state and across the country and just have this kind of collective voice in conjunction with all stakeholders, with our legislators, with our, you know, boards of education, with our with everybody. Like, everybody's gotta be on the same page. So just, you know, know we love the babies. We're here for them at the end of the day. Like, if we weren't, we wouldn't be here. Right? And let's talk about how we can move forward together.
Liza Holland [00:26:14]:
Well, that's a fantastic answer, and I think it's certainly not the first time that I have heard it, but it's also you presented it extremely eloquently. It's unfortunate that education being such a large system and such a big part of our tax base, it's been politicized. And there are no educators out there that I have ever come across that are trying to indoctrinate your children. They just absolutely what's the best for them.
Kiauna Coleman [00:26:41]:
Right. So
Liza Holland [00:26:42]:
that is a, a super place to end this fabulous conversation.
Liza Holland [00:26:54]:
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