More Than Anxiety

Ep 115 - Escaping Cult Control: Ryan Hernandez's Path to Healing and Resilience

• Megan Devito • Episode 115

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I used to think it was rare to find someone who had been in an end-times cult. Turns out, it's not that rare! Join me in this episode of the More than Anxiety Podcast as Ryan Hernandez shares his incredible story. From a promising young life in Los Angeles to finding himself trapped in a religious cult that thrived on fear and deceit, Ryan courageously opens up about the challenges he faced, from sleep deprivation to the constant dread of divine punishment to making his way back to his authentic self.

Ryan's story isn't just about surviving life in a cult, but about managing and healing from anxiety and reclaiming his identity through vulnerability.

Key Moments:

  • Ryan's early life and aspirations before joining the cult
  • The gradual process of indoctrination and its impact on his identity
  • The challenges and sacrifices faced as a member of the cult
  • The pivotal moment that sparked his decision to leave
  • The emotional and psychological toll of escaping the cult
  • The healing journey and strategies for overcoming trauma
  • The importance of seeking support and building a new life

Be sure to check out Ryan's podcast Truth That Heals on Spotify and YouTube
or find him at Creativity Worth Expressing.

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You know you're overwhelmed, burned out, sick to death of work but also trying to do everyting for everyone at home. TAKE THIS QUIZ to find out why you're so overwhelmed and what to do about it.

Megan Devito:

Welcome to the More Than Anxiety Podcast. I'm Megan Deito and I help ambitious women break out of the anxiety cycle that keeps them frustrated and stuck. Get ready for a lighthearted approach that will change what you think, how you feel and what you believe about yourself. This podcast is full of simple steps, a lot of truth, talk and inspiration to take action. So you walk away feeling confident, calm and inspiration to take action. So you walk away feeling confident, calm and ready to live. Let's get to it. Hey there, welcome to episode 115 of the More Than Anxiety podcast. I have a bit of a different episode for you today.

Megan Devito:

So when I was naming my podcast, I chose More Than Anxiety for two reasons. One is because, even though it sounds maybe a little bit cliche at this point, you are really more than anxiety, more than the feeling in your body. But the second reason is because I like to talk about a lot of different things. So this week, in this episode, you are going to meet Ryan Hernandez.

Megan Devito:

Ryan was the member of an end times cult and he dealt, understandably after he left, with a lot of anxiety. Part of his healing and how he moves forward is sharing his story with other people, just so that he can kind of move it into the past tense and move it through and to let other people know about what his life was like. I wanted to hear his story and it was totally fascinating. So of course I said yes, one because the story is amazing and two because he gets to heal by sharing his story on this podcast, and that means a lot to me and I hope it was truly, truly healing for him as well. So this episode was an amazing one for me to be able to record and just listen to Ryan. I'm so grateful that he shared his story with us. So really enjoy this episode.

Ryan Hernandez:

Well, something that I have opened myself to is allowing my boundaries to be crossed a little bit, because when you're in a cult, everything is confined, everything is small, and I wasn't born in a cult, I was born and raised in LA and very open-minded, and then to kind of, I guess, instead of evolve, to go backwards, and now I'm in a place where I used to be that guy who was outgoing and just full of fun, full of life, not really that anxious, but I want to be that, that guy.

Ryan Hernandez:

So, in order for me to get or reclaim who I authentically am, there are some boundaries that the cult mentality placed and I know it's going to hurt to cross those boundaries or to have people kind of ask questions that may seem to be oh, I don't want to ask that, but I want people to ask that because by them asking, I feel it, it is painful for a second, at times not as much anymore, but now I'm in a place where, yes, it did hurt, but now I can talk about it, I can go there and because of people asking questions in a, in a safe environment like this, I'm a low, I'm allowing myself to explore that pain and to move forward, and that's the best part of it. That's the best part is that I'm not going to allow this anxiety or this pain or this trauma to control my life, but I'm approaching it in a healthy way, maybe in little pieces, but it helps to express and get it out of the system.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, and you're doing. It's like you're doing the work in your own podcast and being able to help other people. So I love it that you said that I wasn't born in a cult. Obviously, some people are, but you were not. So what was your life like before? You were like what was your life like?

Ryan Hernandez:

Oh, I grew up in la. Yeah, well, I grew up in this. I grew up in the suburbs, uh, closer Long B to each, it's called Bellflower, went to good schools and my vision was actually the family vision was I would go to USC universal University of Southern California. I had goals. I wanted places to go, yeah, things to do, but then at a young age, because I always had that desire of doing something good in life, whether it was at school, at work or maybe with church-related events.

Ryan Hernandez:

But sadly, I kind of got influenced by this group and it was an end times cult. Initially it was not an end times cult, it was just a group, uh, claiming to be very Christian, uh, and I fell into it and little by little, things started. Things started spiraling down. But what cults do is they don't spiraling down. But what cults do is they don't tell you everything on the get-go, they win you over. It's like a seduction. They seduce you, they love you, they do all this love bombing, but then, little by little, you start removing pieces of yourself. So for me, the way I say it, is removing pieces of my identity through sleep deprivation, through, sometimes sadly, beatings, public humiliations so things like that.

Ryan Hernandez:

But because you're in a cult, you're in an environment, it's hard to leave because then you're going to be painted as the villain. Oh okay, then you're going to be painted as the villain. So that's why I stayed for so long, because if I'm going to leave, the threat was God won't bless your family or God will curse your family. So the anxiety of I'm anxious, I'm scared being here. But it's going to be worse if I leave, because then I'm going to be cursed and my family is going to be cursed. So that's a bit about my story. But before that I was ready to go to school, ready to get an education. I really liked meeting people. I love traveling and I guess that's why I'm doing the podcast now. I think I'm regaining that old part of myself. But yeah, that's who I was. I was just a jolly. I was a teenager, I was just a jolly kid.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, so were you a teenager then, when you kind of started into that cult, like into that assimilation? Or was it more like you were an adult and out of it? Because I know you said you wanted to go to USC, so there was like a, it was high school or that was my life plan from elementary.

Ryan Hernandez:

It was like, yeah you know, go finish my high school, go to um, go to Cerritos College and then the community college and go to USC. It was all planned out, um, but I joined at the end of sophomore year in high school in high school.

Ryan Hernandez:

Yes, wow, okay and what I promised, or what my family was promised, because they were like what the hell are you doing? Right, but this group, like the leaders or I guess one of the leaders, not all of them, but one of the leaders talked to the family like, hey, he's going to do some formation, because the way it's presented is like a religious group, think of like monks.

Megan Devito:

It's like hey, you're going to go to a monastery.

Ryan Hernandez:

He's going to have time to pray, do his prayers, do his meditation, but we'll also supply a homeschooling from the East Coast so he can still do his prayers, pray with us, and he can also find time for studies. That did happen, okay, but many of the studies that I was doing were censored, like they wouldn't allow me to, for example, like I had to do something on Shakespeare this is high school stuff, right and I couldn't read Shakespeare. And I said, well, why can't I read it? Oh, because it's evil, like okay, read Shakespeare. And I said, well, why can't I read it? Oh, because it's evil, like okay.

Ryan Hernandez:

So after like a month in during doing this homeschooling, it was discontinued. So next thing, I know I'm being sent to the Philippines and that's a whole new chapter in my book. But the thing is that they were fraudulent, presenting to my parents that, yes, we're, we're going to take care of your child. He's still a minor, but we're going to take care of him, we're going to give him an education. But instead of getting me an education, it became hardcore indoctrination and maybe you can say brainwashing.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking Like indoctrination, brainwashing. Yeah, it's kind of kind of the same right. So did you get to see your family when you were in the cults, or was it something where you were cut off?

Ryan Hernandez:

Well, I was, because everyone has a different experience. I mean what I experience. If you talk to another member in the same cult, their story will be radically different okay, wow, I didn't know that.

Megan Devito:

I figured everybody. It was like a regiment, not so much

Ryan Hernandez:

Um, no, well, I was I was getting a little bit jealous actually because I was still it's my first year and they allowed. They allowed us to go home one time. That Christmas for christmas, my first year, okay, but just like a five minute kind of thing. You, you know real quick. Oh, but then over the years, what I noticed was that a lot of the other members who are from California because this is actually a Philippine based community, so so it's like there are a bunch of Filipinos awesome Filipino community. But I felt like I was being marginalized because I felt like all these other brothers or sisters are allowed to go back to LA.

Ryan Hernandez:

recruited home in LA and then I was sent to Delaware where they had what they call the formation house. So we're in Delaware living on the farms, totally different from growing up in the suburbs of Los Angeles. Right, I see the cows and the horses, totally different. But I'm noticing that a lot of other of the members, recruits, who are from SoCal, are allowed to go home and I wasn't. And for me to see, for example, my brother, one of my brothers, it took me about seven or eight years before I was allowed to see him. But behind all of that was oh, you can't go. I mean just a lot of preventing me to go, but I would see others going. And then after leaving, because when you're in there you don't have critical thinking I didn't.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, that makes sense.

Ryan Hernandez:

Upon leaving, I was thinking was it because my family wasn't as maybe generous in their donations? Was that a punishment? Could that have been? Because I'm not from the richest family, I mean, but they would give what they could, maybe a hundred bucks here, $200 there, to help support my needs.

Megan Devito:

So your family was paying this cult then, while you were there, because they were being told you were being educated and in more of like a almost like. I guess I would call it like a parochial school or like a church school.

Ryan Hernandez:

No, just like because, well, the education was one thing and then they dropped it and then I got sent to the Philippines. So in the Philippines it was just it's hard to really explain. It was just totally different. It was like Squid Games.

Megan Devito:

Wow!

Ryan Hernandez:

I don't know. So like no contact, like no phones, you know. So like, uh, if we are allowed to make a phone call, it has to be monitored, you have to be with somebody. Um, but yes, and my parents were sending money, not for educational purposes, but hey, like they're in the philippines, my son or not just my, not just my parents, but the parents of several other members sending money because the leaders who stayed here in the U. S. would go around to different areas in the country where they would talk to the parents and other supporters who aren't involved in the cult. They're're not in it, but they're outside as supporters. They don't know what's going on inside.

Ryan Hernandez:

So, from my understanding and speaking to my parents, the leaders would come to, let's say, LA, show pictures of us being poor in the Philippines, living in half-constructed buildings, and be like, hey, we need money, we need money to finish this construction project. And I remember my parents asking me, so whatever happened to that construction project? And I said well, that picture that you're talking about was like eight, nine years ago, before I left the Philippines a few months ago, it still isn't completed. So it's like, where did that money go?

Megan Devito:

So Okay, so yeah, I'm just trying. So when you say brothers and sisters, I'm assuming that you mean the others that were in the cult. Is that correct? Or actually your biological brothers and sisters?

Ryan Hernandez:

No, no, I mean like my, I mean because it's a community, it's like a religious and then like, if you reach that level, then maybe you can become a priest or father. But that was very Okay, even that the way they did it was shady as well. So, but the rest, yeah, just brothers and sisters, but not my biological brothers and sisters.

Megan Devito:

Right, and that's why I thought, okay, surely your brother, your biological brother, was not in the cult with you. So when you said it

Ryan Hernandez:

, he was he was okay he joined earlier. This is another story, totally different

Megan Devito:

W! ow, I'm just like bringing this everywhere

Ryan Hernandez:

So you know that's fine.

Megan Devito:

No, tell your story this is fit, this is...

Ryan Hernandez:

So after I left the cult, I had no idea what to do with my life because you're told that if you leave you're going to be cursed, that God's going to curse you. So it's like I didn't want to step out of the, out of the compounds, but I guess I just said the hell with it, I'm going to get out. And my first thing was to go to Australia where my brother lives. Now I love my brother, we have a good communication and I was there with him for three months having fun in Australia. But we also got to connect because he joined several years before I did and when I joined it was like a tag team. I joined and then he bounced.

Ryan Hernandez:

So when I was sharing my experiences, he was telling me that his was much more different than my experiences. He was telling me that his was much more different because he joined when he was maybe 22 or 23 and he was more mature than I was. So his experience, from what he's related to me, was well, he's a good looking guy. Um, he's a good speaker.

Ryan Hernandez:

So he said he had wanted to leave several times. Every time he had wanted to leave, it was oh no, no, no, we'll, we'll pay for your ticket to go to Europe so you can do some trips. So, and like what?

Ryan Hernandez:

Not everything was bad. Some was like catechetical meaning you're teaching, just like the bedrock, the foundation of the faith, like the ABCs to people. So nothing, nothing wrong with that. And we grew up going to Catholic school, a legit school in LA. So my brother was telling me look, I know my faith, I know the educational stuff. Sure, I'm getting a free ride to go to Europe, I'm getting a free ride to go to Ireland or Italy for a few months. I'm getting a free ride to go to Australia. He's like I took it. I took it as a learning experience. But I knew that from his words. I knew that they were just trying to win me so that I wouldn't leave. But so his experience was different, where he was out more and me I was sheltered because I was young I think I was young, immature and I believed everything that they said where I think my brother was more of a threat and they kind of wanted to be careful around him.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, that's so interesting that you said that you really, when you were in the cult, that you didn't have maybe that rationality or those rational thinking skills or critical thinking skills, where you thought, wait a minute, something's not lining up here. Whereas it sounds like maybe he had a little bit more of that, oh, okay, Well, I know this isn't all I mean. Some of this is bogus, but I'm getting a free trip to Europe. Like it sounds like he was playing the game a little bit more that maybe you just were younger and didn't have that, maybe your brain wasn't ready to do that yet.

Ryan Hernandez:

Well, like in my first month or maybe second month, I did want to leave because of the humiliation. I was thinking this is a Christian. But they made me feel, I mean, first I think that they noticed that I was having these second thoughts Because I was, like I said before I joined, I was outgoing talking to people. That's how I was when I got in, when I started, I was outgoing talking to everybody. And then I started getting all these humiliations. Like they're putting you down, and so I was no longer that happy-go-lucky guy. And I think one of them noticed and started again that love bombing kind of like soothing. And then, oh no, we're not hating you, we're just testing you.

Ryan Hernandez:

God, what is it like, he refines gold in the fire, or something like that. So it's like, okay, I made the decision at that point. Okay, anytime I feel like I need to leave this place, I'm not going to entertain it at all, because if a thought comes, I'm just going to dismiss it, because this is what God wants of me. And this is where it's like I feel like Adam at the Garden of Eden. It's like I took the apple. It's like I took it. It's like, all right, I took the bite Like this, is it. No turning back. Yeah, I'm here.

Megan Devito:

As a Christian, this is so frustrating for me. I mean, I think we hear it all the time that, like people manipulate what like I think what I would call it like the foundation of what Christianity is, when for me it's, it's love, and I'm like that, what someone would take that and twist it just enough to make it be terrifying. I mean I know that we see this on the time like religious trauma. Yeah, like, yeah, I mean I think this is just like a really extreme example of serious religious trauma. So when you say you kind of lost yourself in this; you used to be this fun loving guy and you were like out-going ,and doing all of these fun things, but they put all of these ideas in your head that if you did that, you were going to hell or you were going to be cursed? At what point were?

Megan Devito:

I mean that to me sounds like something that, as somebody who I can remember when I was little being like wait a second, some of this stuff is really freaking scary. Like some of the things you read in the Bible or any of that, like I mean, whether it's the Bible or the Quran or anything else, some of that stuff is like, oh my gosh, that's like really terrifying. Why would I want to do that? And it does have this way of keeping you really in line, I guess. Or like in this, like forward motion where there's like walls all around you. So at one point, like did you notice that? You're like wait a second? Something's not right, like when did that happen for you?

Ryan Hernandez:

I don't know, because I think I think I noticed things and well, it's like you just dismiss it, because the reasoning was they're doing this for the glory of God. Yeah, and and if you and the way that we were, we were trained or programmed was if you obey. You're going to be like, they'll have like like little catchy phrases if you obey, you'll be okay, or so it's like okay, so I obey, I don't. But then it it removes the process of critical thinking and if there is critical thinking, there will be punishments. Solitary confinement was something that I had for quite a while and it wasn't always solitary. It's like I'm in the room but I'm not allowed to talk to anybody and they're not allowed to talk to me. So they would say, oh, it's not a solitary confinement, you're just on silence. But it's like, no, no, it's solitary confinement because I wouldn't be allowed to leave.

Ryan Hernandez:

Uh, for example, like for nine months I had that I would be in the chapel for nine months in solitary, but for me to leave the chapel I would have to ring a bell so someone can come and like, let me out, let me out, kind of thing. Yeah, but like I wouldn't eat with the community. So these things were like when you question, when you see things are wrong and you say something, these are the punishments. So it's like I don't want to see. I mean there are things that are going wrong, but I don't want to see it because this is my experience, having solitary confinement or being humiliated. Well, maybe it's better to just keep quiet for a minute until I just kind of I think it took some time for me to break through it and I like to say I kind of broke bad. I mean, I didn't break bad, but in the eyes of the cult, you're the black sheep.

Megan Devito:

Mmhmm and so at some point you felt either empowered or capable, or just over it maybe, I mean something got you to take that step to leave. And so it was just a.

Megan Devito:

Do you remember the moment when - do were like okay. I'm out. No, it okay, that.

Ryan Hernandez:

It wasn't a flood, it wasn't like that it was a flood of different experiences which took years, actually, when I was in the Philippines, got sent back to Delaware and my grandma died. This is during my time in the Philippines. Got sent back to Delaware and my grandma died. This is during my time in solitary confinement. I'm allowed to be there, I'm not allowed. Can I cuss on this?

Megan Devito:

Yeah, you can cuss.

Ryan Hernandez:

They fuck with your mind, yeah, and with your emotions. My grandmother died and the the crazy thing about the sequence of events was I'm in solitary confinement and then they said hey, Ryan, we need you to go to Nebraska out of the blue. We need you to go to Nebraska. We need a spanish speaker. Now here's your plane ticket go, okay.

Ryan Hernandez:

So next thing, I know I'm in Nebraska and I'm kind of having my fake smile, but I'm full of anxiety because it's like oh my gosh, what the hell am I doing? And I know like are they testing me; am I being tested? If I do good will I be let free? I don't know, but the the like, the scary thing was that this

Megan Devito:

the time of my birthday

Ryan Hernandez:

and in this group celebrating your birthday, and I think it's also Jehovah Witnesses they do this where it's like, celebrating your birthday is forbidden. In the group that I was in, it's something, it's a sign of selfishness that you love yourself more than God.

Ryan Hernandez:

So, anyways, I'm there in Nebraska and someone finds out it's my birthday. They give me a cake. I'm happy, yeah, I'm, I'm all right, like this is, this is a life, a cake. But then I get a phone call like, hey, your grandma died. So now I'm thinking, oh, oh, no, this might be because, because I'm celebrating my birthday, yeah, so so I get sent back to, uh, Delaware. Um, it was just a three-day trip.

Ryan Hernandez:

So I go back to to Delaware and my family is calling me please, we want you to come to the funeral. And so I talked to my superior there and he says Ryan, you know what I'll, I'll make the arrangements, I'll call your family, just go back to the chapel, my solitary confinement room. Just go back there and I'll talk to you in the morning. So I talked to him in the morning and he tells me well, I spoke with your family and they said it's better that you stay here in Delaware and pray for them. And I was like, are you serious? I just spoke to them yesterday and they said that they wanted me to come to the funeral. I want to come and he goes. Yeah, that's what they said. And I said how can that be? And I said it's unfair that for and I hadn't seen my family in about eight years at this point.

Megan Devito:

Oh my gosh.

Ryan Hernandez:

Like, how come other people can go home and see their families but I can't? And he just says, well, just obey, okay. Three months later, my brother the one who was in Australia he comes by to visit. He's passing by and he asked me why didn't you come to the funeral? And we're sipping coffee.

Ryan Hernandez:

And I told him well, because, according to the superior, you and the family didn't want me there. And he told me no, that's not what, that's not the truth. And I asked him what is the truth? And he told me well, your superior called saying that you didn't want to go. So the family was thinking that I was rejecting them and I was thinking that my family was rejecting me. So I think that that event started. It didn't blow open the doors for me to leave, but it kind of hurt the armor that I had enough to allow myself to realize that something's going on. I think that's when I started realizing something is going on, but I didn't want myself to go there, mentally.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, and really using that. I think it's so interesting that you said that, almost like they used that feeling of anxiety as a weapon, like they weaponized your brain against you. Basically, I mean they created anxiousness that if you do this then you will be cursed, you will go to hell, you will have whatever happens. But really that manipulation of you saying, oh my gosh, I ate cake and now my grandma died, that's such a normal, I mean such a quick. I used to experience that when I was really anxious, that, oh, this is probably because of this one thing, and it's just that I've caused this. It's those really immediate I guess we would call them peril predictions or anything like that If I do this, then this horrible thing will happen, or always being on edge to make sure that you stay safe. But now look what I did I ate the cake and my grandma died.

Ryan Hernandez:

Yeah, oh.

Megan Devito:

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Ryan Hernandez:

I was blaming myself, but yeah, yeah.

Megan Devito:

So how did you handle it once you finally got free? I'm sure there had to be some readjustment coming back into normal life or outside of the cult life, Like how did you manage that?

Ryan Hernandez:

Well, the way I left was not the way I wanted because shortly after that event, with my grandma, I told them look, I've done my best. Actually, in the Catholic diocese in Wilmington, Delaware where I think President Joe Biden is a part of, that bishop actually removed our group, so our group was not recognized there and so, as this is happening, I'm starting to kind of open my eyes. And I got sent back to the Philippines. So we get kicked out of Delaware, I get sent back to the Philippines, but before I get my plane ticket, I told the superiors look, I've done my best. I tried my best to be obedient. I've tried my best to be humble. I remain silent. I've taken all of the crap that's happened to me and I've taken it on the chin. Now I'm ready to leave and I want to leave in a peaceful, cordial, good terms. And the response was well, you're still under your vows. So we take vows kind of, and it's not like a wedding vow, it's not permanent Because they give you. It's called temporary. So I took my temporary vows for, let's say, three years. At the end of three years, you you retake your vows Okay, and after like nine years, then you take what's called a perpetual vow, where it's like yeah, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I vow for this. So when I approached and said I'm ready to leave, the response was you're still not finished with your three years. You still got time. So here's your plane ticket, go to the Philippines. And then, after you finish your year, see what happens. So I go back to the Philippines and I'm just being ignored.

Ryan Hernandez:

There were whippings, it was just. I couldn't take the gaslighting anymore. I couldn't take. I'm being punished. I'm being whipped for stupid things, things that other people can do, like eating at a McDonald's. If I'm eating at a McDonald's with my money my parents would send money I would use some of that just to buy myself, like an apple pie, just an apple pie, and a cup of coffee. And other other people saw me, reported me. It's like I'm in North Korea and next thing I know I'm getting in front of everybody there. They assign people. All right, you, you, you, you whip, whip him, whip Ryan this amount of times. And so it was like I had it, because, yes, I'm, I'm in there.

Ryan Hernandez:

But my heart wanted to explore married life. My heart wanted to explore getting an education, wanted to read books. I felt like the old Ryan. The real me wanted to emerge, but all I was getting was punishment. So after that I said you know what the hell with this? So I would sneak out kind of dress, try to dress normal, because we did have our religious habit, kind of thing. Okay, our clerical stuff. I would remove my clerical because I'm like this isn't me. I mean, I'm being, but I didn't know that I was being. It was just so mind-bending. But I would go out, I would meet with people. I was like starting to refine myself, but I was hiding and then I would start dating. I started dating somebody, but then I'd go back and I'd be hey, I I talked to like another priest who wasn't really with the community but like he had done this. Okay, you know, I get it wasn't a humiliating experience, but it led to me losing my v-card and I had never like done anything.

Ryan Hernandez:

I mean come on and wow.

Megan Devito:

You're like I'm not going back to that cult ever again now.

Ryan Hernandez:

No, no

Megan Devito:

That's way better than anything we're doing in that cult.

Ryan Hernandez:

No the experience was the worst

Ryan Hernandez:

Actually, I was opposite, I felt, because for so long I had I had this desire to, if I'm gonna lose it, I wanted to be like in matrimony, someone who I really care for. I wanted to court somebody, take them out, get to know them and maybe I guess like kind of the conservative style. That's what I wanted, but it's like I'm not getting anywhere. I'm asking to leave this place and I'm not being allowed to leave. I'm trying to kind of break the rules by sneaking out and just kind of meeting people. So I was like you know what the hell with it? I'm kind of dating this girl on the side.

Ryan Hernandez:

One thing led to another and I lost my V card. But I felt so much shame because for so long I had been having this idea that sex is bad, that marriage is or the way that this group would portray marriage is as secondary, it's not holy enough, you're not good enough. So it's like I lost my V card. But internally I felt shame, the way they would say it is imagine you're an angel on your throne or on your place in heaven and, like Lucifer, you've lost your place, you've been cast out of heaven.

Ryan Hernandez:

You lose your place. You've been cast out of heaven, you lose your position. Okay, so I felt like being in the cult, being in the group, I felt like I had a place in heaven. It's all secured, but by me going down to my carnal passions, I've lost that place. So I felt like this is it, I'm done. And so when I left, there was so much guilt and shame, but I've allowed myself to kind of change the narrative, like, okay, like you know, talking to myself and also getting counseling therapy is like why did those things happen? I was in a place of extreme pressure, of extreme manipulation, and so it was a painful experience. But I've also found the power to reclaim my narrative, and that's why I'm here.

Megan Devito:

Good and I'm sorry. I was not trying to make light of your situation.

Ryan Hernandez:

Oh no.

Megan Devito:

,I'm sorry that I said that that was not okay. Oh no, I said that that was not okay with me.

Ryan Hernandez:

It gets better later, I mean after that.

Megan Devito:

Well, that's good. I'm glad it gets better later, because I'm like oh, Megan , Shut up.

Ryan Hernandez:

but so all of this happens and you feel like you've basically been kicked out of heaven. It sounds like, okay, well, now, no, I've really done it.

Megan Devito:

And so tell me, I want to hear the part where it gets better.

Megan Devito:

Well, I mean, I don't have to hear all of it but, I, want to know, like, how you felt, like, how you felt after you left, like, like after like, once you were out, what was it like to say, okay, I'm out, I've done it, I've made this decision, It was a process, it took a long time and what like, when you finally got to a point I don't know if there was a defined it doesn't sound like there were a lot of defining moments in this process it was kind of like a, a slow sink and maybe a slow rise, like it sounds like it was very much a process and there was not a like. And then I was in and then this happened and then this happened, it was just a very mixed up process. So, as you leave, like, at what point, after you had officially, like, officially, left, did you, did you have a rationalization where you were like, okay, now I'm out, I can do what I want? Or, oh my gosh, I was in a cult Like, what was that like for you?

Ryan Hernandez:

So I didn't want to leave them. That's the thing I wanted to leave. But I still wanted to. That's why, like a few years prior, I still wanted to have relations. Relations where, like, there's a communication going on, but I, I had, I had sex with some girl that I was dating, a great person, but anyways, um, I knew that there was no turning back. So when I told my superior, like well, first I told him look, I've, I've had it, I'm ready to go, I'm done. I didn't need to tell him that I've, I've had relationships with anybody. That's none of his business, right? But he was like no, I don't want you to go.

Ryan Hernandez:

He was like I I want to go he, but then he goes uh, but next month I can use you on mission. We can go to kind of like what they're trying to do with my brother. But with me it was too late. It's like, man, I've been here for 11 years and I've been stuck. Yeah, it's like now you want me to go on mission to Italy or anywhere. I'm like what is this? He's like well, I mean, we need you, we need your Spanish speaking skills. And he's like are you sure you don't want to go? I'm like I'm sure he's like why? Because this isn't me.

Ryan Hernandez:

Me standing up for myself, kind of being a little bit more firm, isn't me. I'm more of the passive pushover guy because I allowed myself to be. So. He's like why? I was like look, I had a girlfriend. I slept with somebody, like okay, yeah, we can't have you here, you need to go home. So it was like that.

Megan Devito:

Oh, that fast

Ryan Hernandez:

It was quick, okay, but I told him no, because he wanted me to have my parents pay for everything. We'll get your ticket, get out of here. I said no, wait a minute.

Ryan Hernandez:

I've been here for several years. I've only seen the walls of this place I've. Only now am I starting to see outside. I'm in the Philippines. I don't know when my next time coming here is going to be. I go home right now. I'm going to tell everybody. All I saw was a freaking prison wall. So what we're going to do is my parents. They send me money. I'll give you a small percentage of that money. You allow me to stay and I'm going to go around, do my thing. I'm going to look for a job and I'm going to see what I do with my life. Yeah, good for you.

Ryan Hernandez:

So I did stay. I mean I have a place, but it was okay. It's like it was like a treaty kind of thing. It's like I'm allowed to stay. I'm allowed to go out meet people, but I have a place to stay. If I wanted to pray, there's a chapel. They don't. They're not gonna tell me anything, but so kind of refining myself was hard. I'm dating people. I mean I was.

Ryan Hernandez:

Let me think I was 17 when I joined 16, 17, no experience. And then I'm I'm 28, when, when I officially got out, I officially got out, but I'm still there. But I'm in the world, baby. I haven't tried a cigarette. I haven't tried a glass of wine. I haven't tried a beer, I haven't driven a car, so all these things. I felt like a puppy again, but still trying to ignore my anxiety, but it was still there.

Ryan Hernandez:

I think shortly after, maybe six months later, is when I went to Australia and I think that my time with my brother, comparing our experiences and the cool thing was that he didn't shut me down that's a problem with cults, even with maybe some ex-members I'm not sure for all cults, but at least in my experience you can't talk about the experiences. All you can highlight are oh, the good times, oh, those are good times, and if someone says anything about the bad times, the rest of the members, even though they're ex-members, they'll shut you down. Oh, don't talk about that. But I think, talking to my brother and hearing that he supported me and he's like I'm sorry that you went through that, that wasn't my experience. But he's like, yeah, there definitely needs to be a change. It felt healing to have somebody instead of saying, shut up, Ryan, just listen. I think that changed the course of my life.

Megan Devito:

Do you still experience anxiety about it? Is it something there like in your day to day? Is there still some anxiousness there?

Ryan Hernandez:

I did initially because, to break out, I had to find a way to express myself, because when you're talking to because these were my friends for so long, like the community and the supporters and I lost everybody from LA I mean high school people and I don't know who the hell I am now. So when I would talk to them, it was like silence. It was like no, you need to shut up about it. So I had to put out a blog and in the blog was my way of getting my voice out, because I didn't have the peace of mind to speak in front of a camera on the microphone. I needed the blog and I just let it go. I just pressed send and I shared it on Facebook.

Ryan Hernandez:

And then I'd have all these people who were connecting, and another group of people saying you're evil or you're an agent of Satan, or if you were whipped, it was because God was punishing you. So, Yes, there was anxiety, but then I also learned to just brush it off. It's like this is my story, this is my narrative, and it took, it took time, but I think the best part was for me to say this is my narrative, you have your own narrative. You want to believe lies, go ahead. I don't, I don't care, yeah, but I know what my narrative is I'm grounded and now I have peace.

Megan Devito:

Yeah is I'm grounded and now I have peace. Yeah, I think I remember when I talked with you a couple of weeks ago that I thought for a long time, I mean, you see, what, like a Netflix documentary or something like that on some cult, that's like you know whether it's Jonestown or you know some big cult like that and you think, wow, those like when those happen, that's a really big deal. Like I can't understand how how people fall into that or things like that. And I mean my daughter is like she's mesmerized by these documentaries. And then and I was like, no, apparently this is really common, because I remember you saying, no, it's not. There are a lot of people out there who have been in a cult.

Ryan Hernandez:

I

Megan Devito:

had no idea.

Ryan Hernandez:

I had no idea either yeah

Megan Devito:

I'm like no. Wow, okay, so what as like, what if you were to give advice to somebody, whether, I'm assuming, when you were in there did they allow you to have outsized news or outside information, or was it just what they fed, like you can read this, you can look at this. I mean, you said North Korea and I know they're very, this is what you're allowed to read. So was it, were you allowed to watch the news? Were you allowed to do any of that?

Ryan Hernandez:

No, no TV. Like, if ever, like the founder of the group, like we would love it when he would come because he's very charismatic, speaking, um, but he would also bring the projector and show stuff. He would show clips and this is our only time to watch the news, but he would have like edited clips of like I think, because I don't know what the hell YouTube was, I don't know what were, but he would show us a bunch of like what's that Truth Wars or something like that. There's some Alex Jones.

Megan Devito:

Oh yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. What was it? Alex Jones? He was a piece of work. I know what you're talking about, though yeah, I would have to look up the name of it. But yeah, Alex Jones.

Ryan Hernandez:

Yeah, so he would show like clips of the. I don't know who this guy is, but I was like, wow, like so, oh, this is happening. So there's all this like paranoia happening in in our minds. So the only and that would add on to the end times times is coming. No, this is why we're doing this. This is why we're doing all this extreme fasting.

Ryan Hernandez:

Um, but actually a funny story about because we would have extreme fasting for like 40 days, sometimes 60 days. All you all we would eat was like bread and water, or maybe like tasteless soup, like just like water with a bit of rice, or this is very plain, very low calorie diet for sometimes 40 days, sometimes 60 days. It would depend, because the idea was the world is ending. Look at the news, look at, look at this. Um, at the time it was h1n1 virus. I don't know if you remember this one.

Megan Devito:

I do.

Ryan Hernandez:

They showed us a clip from YouTube of some girl saying that she saw a warehouse of the US Army where they're going to have coffins for all of the, I mean, there was all these conspiracy theories that they're going to put all the people who like this I don't know, but there was just so much fear into us and I ate it all up. But I think what made us so easy to brainwash was our sleep was or at least my sleep schedule was from 10 pm to 12.45 am Very low calorie meals. So very, very few meals. Yeah, very malnourished, and there was a point after my grandma died where I started disobeying. I started to disobey and talking about books and media that we're not allowed to watch, I found somewhere on the compound the book Oliver Twist. I don't know, have you ever read the book Oliver Twist or are you familiar with it.

Megan Devito:

I am familiar with it, but I have not read it.

Ryan Hernandez:

Oh boy, okay, so there is a. I've never. I had never read the book. I had never seen the movies.

Ryan Hernandez:

But it's about this little boy, orphan boy, Oliver Twist. He's like in an orphanage. But there's a part there in the book where it's talking about the boys getting second, because there's also, like, the picture of Oliver asking for more gruel. He's asking for more food, more peace, yes, and he's getting punished.

Ryan Hernandez:

But there in the book and it was like this was like I had to put the book down because it's talking about like no, you shouldn't give them more, because if you give them more food, then these young boys are going to get strong, and if they're strong, they're not going to be, it's not easy to control them. And so it was like whoa is that? Is that happening here? And and then. But that goes back to, oh, like, the rule is you're not allowed to read those books, because then that's where the devil gets inside of you. So I had to put the book down. But I finished reading the book in secrecy, but it kind of I mean, that is my point of view of the book. I know maybe nobody else is going to have that point of view, but it really hit a spot in my heart where it's like, oh boy, I think that helped open my eyes.

Megan Devito:

I don't know what your religious beliefs are now or what your political beliefs are now, but I have so many things going on in my head. I just want to tell you that sometimes I think that God puts the exact right book in your hand at the exact right time. I mean whatever that was. I'm so glad that you read Oliver Twist.

Ryan Hernandez:

It's funny.

Megan Devito:

However, that ended up in that compound in your hands that needed to be there, and I think it's just the fact that you mentioned so many things that just feel so relevant right now, in, maybe, where we are in our country, in the world or whatever else.

Megan Devito:

I do feel like that we're fed so much misinformation or disinformation or things to keep us scared and afraid, and because fear is such a motivator and it sounds like that was the thing like the manipulation tool or the thing that made you feel safe, was the thing that was scaring you the most, and if there's anything I know about people who are anxious, it's that sometimes those fears feel safe.

Megan Devito:

If I worry about it and if I make sure I do all the things that my anxiety is telling me that I should do or should not do, at least I'll be safe. I might be terrified, I might be miserable, it might not feel good, but I'm not. I'm not like nothing bad will happen to me or to my family, or nothing bad will you know if I could just keep checking and keep doing these things, even though something doesn't feel right, it's going to be okay, and that is such a fear based response and such an anxiety like making that anxiety grow. And I'm just so impressed with what you're doing and the message that you're sharing with people, because it's important. It's important even for people who are not ever going to wind up in a cult. I think people need to hear this. It's so important.

Ryan Hernandez:

I have no idea how that book got in my hands, but it's like small things that I'm afraid, I was afraid of. I was afraid of the, I was afraid of the book Oliver Twist.

Megan Devito:

Yes!

Ryan Hernandez:

Am I going to go to hell because of reading it? But then, like a part of me was like oh come on, this is Charles Dickens, Just go, just read it in the bathroom, or read it like and it was great, it helped.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, and I just feel like those things fall into our lives exactly when they're supposed to and I think that maybe, like your angel might have just dropped that in there for you, because I hope someone else found it too and got the same message. Wow, your story is incredible. And so now you've been out for a while, what are you doing with your life? Do you have like the OG Ryan's back and he's like he's? I mean, you seem like you feel great and you've got such a personality and you're sharing your story. So do you feel like you're getting back to that sophomore in high school kid that wanted to do fun things and really like had all of this energy?

Ryan Hernandez:

Well, I do have a lot of FOMO, that fear of well, not fear of missing out out, but more like I missed out. So a lot of me wants to kind of catch up, but I'm I'm in the place where it's like I'm a 37 year old man now. I'm not a kid. I have to also be, I have to be wise, but I have to be me too. So I I started the, the blogs, as a way to kind of get it out there and then it shifted to the podcast. Now my podcast has had a lot of, I guess, facelifts, but it takes work. I mean it is.

Ryan Hernandez:

I mean I had a lot of anxiety starting it. I didn't know what I was doing, I just kind of, and it was all over the place, and sometimes it still is. But even though I had that anxiety, I still had a higher purpose and I think having a higher purpose was a motivator for me to kind of put my anxiety not aside but to go through it and leave it behind and move forward. And now I can talk to people like the old Ryan did before.

Ryan Hernandez:

I was terrified I'd be here on a on a camera, I'd be literally, I would be shaking. Yeah. Now it's like there's a peace that comes when I face my fear, and my fear was my own truth. Now that I've embraced my truth, my narrative and it's not out of hate, I feel that I share my narrative out of a place of genuine care for people. I don't want people to experience what I did, but now that I've experienced embracing my narrative, embracing my truth, I want my platform to be where other people doesn't have to be a cult, can be from any background, as long as their their message is, you know, peaceful, not hate, hateful. But I want this platform to be a place where people can share their truth and people can connect. I think that's, I think that makes the world a better place when there is more connection, building more bridges.

Megan Devito:

Yeah, I agree and I love that you have this very hopeful and like just such an insightful I don't want to say spin, but like a very hopeful ending to a very long and it sounds like really tumultuous story with lots of experience that I can't even wrap my brain around, Like it's so, so interesting to me. So for people who want to connect with you, who want to hear more and really like get to know more, where do they find you?

Ryan Hernandez:

Well, I have a podcast. It's called the Truth that Heals podcast. You can find me on Spotify, Apple also YouTube and on Instagram Truth that Heals podcasat. But I've also started a second channel. It's very I'm still still new, but it's called Creativity Worth Expressing. This is a place where I want to kind of step away from the trauma stuff and invite, uh, independent artists, um musicians, anything, people who are creative. I want to share their work because I think that expressing oneself in a creative way, in a healthy way, is not only beautiful but I think it's healing. So I think that. So that's also the channel that I have Creativity Worth Expressing. You can find me on Instagram and on YouTube.

Megan Devito:

That is beautiful. You are doing incredible work and it sounds like healing work, and that makes me so happy for you. And if you send me those links, I will be sure to put those in the show notes so people can connect with you. Songwriters, artists I feel like there's a lot of creatives that really use that creativity to help them deal with anxiety, and they're lucky to be able to get to know you. So thank you so much for talking with me and for sharing your story.

Ryan Hernandez:

Thank you for inviting me.

Megan Devito:

Yes, I loved it. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the More Than Anxiety podcast. Before you go, be sure to subscribe and leave a review so others can easily find this resource as well. And, of course, if you're ready to feel calm, to stop overthinking and have a lot more fun, you can go to the show notes, click the link and talk to me about coaching. I'll talk to you soon.