The Author Wheel Podcast
The Author Wheel Podcast
Balancing the Art of Writing with Entrepreneurship with Melissa Storm
Personalizing the pyramid of needs...
This week, we're thrilled to have Melissa Storm join us on the Author Wheel Podcast to talk about writing craft, authorpreneurship, being a hybrid author, crossing genre lines, writing under pennames, mental health, wellness, and more. It's an absolutely fabulous interview packed with actionable advice for writers across all levels.
New York Times and USA Today bestselling author Melissa Storm is happiest with a book in her hands and a pet on her lap. She writes in a number of genres including Women’s Fiction and Psych Thrillers. Melissa lives with her family in the heart of Alaska.
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Hi everyone, Welcome to the Author Wheel podcast. I'm Greta Boris, USA Today bestselling mystery thriller author.
Speaker 2:And I'm Megan Haskell, award-winning fantasy adventure author. Together we are the Author Wheel. We have a fantastic conversation with multi-genre author Melissa Storm for you this week, where we talk about everything from writing under multiple pen names, being a hybrid author by self-publishing and having contracts with traditional publishers, and even mental health and wellness. But before we get into that, how are you doing this week, greta?
Speaker 1:Well, it's been a busy one, which is normal, I guess.
Speaker 1:Busy but good, I'm coming down to the end of the rewrite of the third book in what was the Seven Deadlies, soon to be called an almost true crime series, and I'm hoping to turn that one in this week. I feel like, as I'm going, I'm starting to get kind of a flow or rhythm to this process, and I do think the third book was I knew it was going to be the toughest and it did take me quite some time was what I knew it was going to be the toughest and it did take me quite some time. So I'll be really happy to turn that one in and get started on the fourth book. Nice, yeah, so also.
Speaker 1:So this week, probably the most interesting thing that I did was an experiment with my author friend, pamela Fagan Hutchins. We interviewed her on October 9th 2023, season four, episode five, if you want to refresh yourself on who she is and what she does. Anyway, I did a takeover of her Facebook author group and I'm not sure it did tons for my list, but it did teach me a couple of things about being present on social media and what kind of things people responded to and what kind of things they didn't respond to. I think my biggest takeaway was that it is pretty time consuming for the direct benefits, like sometimes I compare social media for authors to like wearing your underwear, make no, nobody. Maybe people don't know it's there, but it's kind of best that you don't not wear them. You know, it's just one of those things you know.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting analogy.
Speaker 1:Yeah For social media.
Speaker 2:Wearing your underwear to your social media.
Speaker 1:People might not recognize it, but do you really want to go without it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1:So, but it's hard to quantify the results right. It's not like advertising, where you can go. This is how many clicks I got and this is how much the clicks cost me and this is how the clicks related to my sales and you know, was it worth it or not worth it? Financially it's not, there's. It's. It's much more loosey goosey, a lot more subjective and that kind of thing. So I'm she's having a big book launch Facebook party on Easter and I'm kind of a part of that. I mean, I don't think I'll actually be there, but I'm scheduling posts and and I'm giving away books to her people. So we'll see how that goes as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Anyway, yeah, I was talking with one of my coaching clients this week about social media. She asked you know she's? She's about to launch her debut novel and she was kind of questioning like she's not currently very active on social media, so does she need to start up her accounts and stuff? And my general thought is that it's kind of, unless you already enjoy it and already enjoyed that kind of content creation, it can be a time sink without direct measurement. So it does seem to be kind of like a it's good to have it, but I don't know Like we need to get a social media person on here. I guess is really where I'm going with this, because I have lots of questions. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I do too. Like because I look at some people who I think are doing it well and it does seem to benefit them. Yeah, like I do think Pamela Fagan Hutchins does it well and she has a big group she calls the posse and they're in there and they're active, and I think that was part of it is like they were like who is this Greta Boris person? We're here for Pamela.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We're not here for Greta, you know. So I think maybe that's why the takeover wasn't super successful. But then you look at an author who I would love to have on sometime, brenda Novak, and she has like a book club, a Facebook book club, and every month she does baskets and every month they feature a different author. Sometimes it's her and sometimes it's author friends and you know, it's looks like it's probably really a big part of her business. Yeah, but she has her daughter runs it for her, because it's very time consuming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in a lot of ways it's like another business, it's a. I mean there are people who make their business as social media influencers and content creators. So for an author to add that on again, unless you already love it, if you do, great, keep it up, you know. But if you don't. I can see, I don't know. For me it's very tough anyway. Yeah, but yeah, I think we should get social media people on here. We'll work on that.
Speaker 1:Yes. So what are you doing this week? I know it's a busy one.
Speaker 2:It definitely, definitely is. So, first off, I got Invisalign installed on my teeth yesterday. So if I'm lisping a little, I'm trying really hard not to. Hopefully it's not too bad or too much and hopefully I'll get over it quickly. For, you know, podcasting my tongue will figure out how to deal with these things on my teeth, but also I think it forces me to talk just a little bit slower, which might not be a bad thing. So, you know, we'll see, hopefully, hopefully it's all it's not too bad, and you all can, you know, send us an email if you're going. Oh my God, megan, take those things off your teeth when you're podcasting and I will.
Speaker 1:I barely can tell oh, that's good, that's good, I'm very conscious of it.
Speaker 2:But in any case and then in other news I do have I have this kind of super secret new opportunity that's been building in the background and taking up some of my time this week and we're not talking about it yet. So I'm teasing it here, I'm leaving y'all on a cliffhanger, but there will be news coming out about that in the next few months, coming out about that in the next few months. But that's been. It's been really really good. But it's also been, you know, a little bit of extra work and on my regular schedule. And then in the meantime I'm making my final preparations for WonderCon as we record this.
Speaker 2:So there's so many tasks I always forget how many things I have to do to set up for especially a big event like WonderCon. And once I get it set up it'll be pretty much good for the rest of the year. But I've got to get ebook download cards made. I've got to set up my email subscription and autoresponders, making sure everything is flowing the way it's supposed to for new readers that are coming into the system. Got to double check my inventory box everything up, get it all ready, make sure my register is set up on my phone properly print out the pricing sheets. So much stuff.
Speaker 1:That would be another interesting podcast episode. Maybe I should interview you on how to do live in-person events like WonderCon, because there are probably listeners out there who say, you know, maybe they're not going to do something as big as WonderCon, but they are going to go to some boutique or some place sell books and you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I do a lot of those throughout the year. Now, I mean, last year I think I did four or five book selling events and I think this year I've got another four or five, um, and a few big ones. So, yeah, we should do that. We should do that. In fact, we might need to split it up in a couple different episodes. We'll have to think about that and talk offline, because there's the prep work and setup, but then there's also how to sell and make events successful. So I think those are two different, potentially two different episodes, but we'll chat more and we'll let you know what happens with that.
Speaker 2:Before we move on, I just want to take a quick moment to remind you to please subscribe to the podcast, post a review if you love it and then share your favorite episode with a writer friend. The more you share, the better off we all are and can learn together. Now on to the episode with Melissa Storm. Today we are thrilled, absolutely thrilled, to have Melissa Storm on the show. Melissa is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author, who is happiest with a book in her hands and a pet in her lap. She writes in a number of genres, including women's fiction and psych thrillers. Melissa lives with her family in the heart of Alaska. So welcome, melissa. We are so excited to have you on the show. This is gonna be a fabulous conversation, I can already tell.
Speaker 3:Hello, hello, happy to be here with you both.
Speaker 1:I can already tell Hello, hello, happy to be here with you both. Yeah, we've already had a full conversation before we even hit record, so this is going to be a fun one. You all listeners, you are in for a treat. Melissa, is that bio just doesn't quite do her justice?
Speaker 2:It really doesn't.
Speaker 1:So multifaceted and so successful in so many different areas, and you know so hopefully we'll just get a chance to touch on at least a few of them. So we're going to start with the question we ask everybody, and that is can you tell us a little bit about your journey into writing and publishing, like what got you bit by the bug and how'd you get started?
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness. I think my first author bio back in the day said I was born with a fountain pen clutched firmly in my left hand and I've gotten away from purple prose since then, so it's no longer in my bio. But when I was young I actually wanted to be a cartoonist for Disney and I used to win a lot of art contests and always drawing, and then I would write stories to go with my drawings and then at some point I switched away from drawing and got more and more into writing. I wrote my first book in 2010. I published for the first time in 2011. And I was trying to go the traditional route because this was kind of before indie publishing was mainstream, and I was trying to find a literary agent for that first novel. And I got online Twitter and a blog, because that was what you did. The Twitterverse, yes it was.
Speaker 3:I was going to build an author platform because they all said you need an author platform. But I wasn't an author yet because I hadn't published yet. You know in my mind. So my blog and Twitter just took off and within a week, everybody was calling me a social media expert. So I was like, well, this is interesting, this fits. And I was like, maybe I'll write an ebook about marketing. And then instead I made a business Novel Publicity. So that launched the same year as my first book and was just immediately super successful and has continued to be successful to present day.
Speaker 3:So it took me a while to the business, was so needy. For a long time I said it was my wife and writing is my mistress and I can't quit either because I love them both. But I always felt guilty about spending time with my mistress when the wife needed me, the wife being the business and the mistress being the writing. So around 2016, 17, I finally decided that I was going to treat myself the way I treated my clients and I made a rule I do it for them, I do it for me, and that's when my writing started to take off. So I started making more time and learning to delegate, which is one of the hardest but most rewarding things I've ever done in my life, and now I'm able to split time between the two, although I will say so far for 2024,. The wife is really on me.
Speaker 1:She's being very demanding, she's so demanding.
Speaker 3:She is such a long list and it keeps getting added to. But I just, you know, I have these two halves of my business and creative soul and I really need both to be fulfilled. So I'm, you know, putting systems in place so that I can get back to having both in my life again. So, oh, that's nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's something that Greta and I have talked about in the past, both in interviews or online and also just privately, Because I think we both have that same drive where, for me, like, writing is my creative outlet and then the author wheel is my my business outlet, because I actually have an undergraduate business degree and so I've always needed both sides of those. But finding the balance can be so, so hard, Because I think, when, when you can focus on just one, it's like okay, well, that's the thing that you do. But when you have two very, you know, related but very different elements of your personality that you're expressing through different activities, like it can be hard to like set those priorities and that balance. So how do you, or what systems have you put in place to help find that balance? I mean, I know you said you're struggling with the wife right now, but how are you getting back into that, that that satisfying self and that joy?
Speaker 3:So I put balance right up there with delegation is one of the most rewarding and difficult things I've ever worked on. Last year, 2023, was a big year of mental health for me. So really learning to get off the clock and put work away and have leisure and have time with family and making sure I'm hitting all these areas of life and as you add more and more pieces in, it's harder to complete the puzzle. So I wanted to make sure my relationship, my family, my business, my writing, my health all taken care of, and it's nigh impossible to do all at any given time. So I kind of think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but I have a what's a non-square word version of the word. I want to use A doggy-ized version of the pyramid.
Speaker 3:So messed up I have at the bottom of the pyramid. The business needs to be stable and good, because I'm dealing with a lot of money on behalf of my clients and I have a staff that I provide a living for. So if something's wrong there, nothing else is taken care of, nothing else can happen. So if that base is solid, then I'm allowed to sleep. I thought sleep was the bottom of the pyramid. My husband's like no, because when there's a work problem, you wake up at 1am and start working until you can't anymore, and I'm like that's true, so sleep, getting eight hours regularly, really more like nine hours. I'm needy in that way.
Speaker 3:If I'm if the business, good and I'm getting the nine hours, then I have time for leisure. That's usually the first thing that goes if I'm overwhelmed. If I'm doing well, though, I have time to read every day. I play video games every day. It's really important for me. When I'm sleeping, leisure business is good, then I can be creative and write, but if any of that stuff is not fulfilled, I don't even try to write. I give myself the grace because it's not going to happen.
Speaker 3:When I'm regularly writing and this is kind of a cop out when I'm regularly writing and everything's good, then I can focus on my health and use the home gym that I built and spent $10,000 on and haven't used once. Oh my goodness. I'm like if I'm not writing, there's that's something I want to do. There's no way I'm going to go get on the Peloton or use the tonal. There's no way I'm going to force myself to do that if I'm not writing. So I kind of have that pyramid, and the health stuff is kind of a star at the top because it's also a Christmas tree, which is the triangle too. So I don't know if I answered the question, but there is my thing.
Speaker 1:So it's not necessarily about balance, but it's making sure that I have a firm base to move up the pyramid. Actually, I think that's really a great way to look at it, because it's true, I think if, unless you're a person who's very compartmentalized which I don't think is particularly healthy it is really hard, like if your health or your family relationships or your business or whatever is falling apart, how on earth does anybody stop and expect themselves to come up with an adorable cat detective story? You know that just wouldn't happen for me. I can tell you that.
Speaker 3:It's all got slot in the police yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's interesting. I would say that I mean that having that priority sort of set in your mind that makes it easier to like say, okay, what do I need to focus on today? Because if you've got a problem in your business, obviously that's gonna take that priority. You already know that because you have it laid out in this pyramid. But what I find interesting is actually that's a very flexible system for for everybody.
Speaker 2:I mean, I I probably have never framed it that way, but could and but, my, my tears are going to be a little bit different than yours are, cause I don't have a business that pays other people's salary. So that's not my bottom, because it's just me. So my bottom is the sleep um, because if I don't get sleep I can't function. Um, for my family, uh, you know I've got two kids and stuff, so so I, I like that, that, that system, and kind of framing it that way in the hierarchy of needs, but then shifting it for each person individually, based on where they're at in their life and their you know, current system.
Speaker 3:I want to build and live in the great pyramids of Giza. I don't want to be playing Jenga, yeah. So I know that if I'm missing level two, sleep. No other levels need to try to be built because they're not going to stay put. No other levels need to try to be built because they're not going to stay put. Yeah, they need that. So I don't even try. And that was a huge thing. I have obsessive compulsive disorder and anxiety and I would get so burnt out and stressed out of why am I not writing? And I would just shame myself and beat myself up because I'm not writing. But now I know oh, the conditions, you know the weather conditions. There's no writing, warning or watch today. It's not happening. So thinking of it like a pyramid and that each level has to be stacked to go to the next level has allowed me to just say the business is really needy. Right now Writing's not going to happen, but if I do a really good job and build these systems in place, writing will happen later.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like. It's frustrating and disappointing because at this point it's been a couple of months, which is great. My business is growing really great and I'm enjoying it so much and we're helping a lot of people, but I miss writing a lot. Yeah, so tomorrow I've cleared the deck, the pyramid is built and I'm going to write tomorrow, provided, you know, a storm doesn't come in. I love mixing metaphors just to keep you on your toes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we're ready for that. But yeah, I'm not bothering myself about exercising until I'm writing regularly, at which point I'm going to have to have a kind of a wake-up call and be like oh, my excuse is gone and figure that out. That'll be good for me, yeah.
Speaker 1:My pyramid doesn't work if I'm not exercising. So we need to just get together and inspire each other, because I will put business aside any old day to exercise, because exercise used to be my business, so it's like ingrained in my brain. But I do think that this pyramid idea is just brilliant. And how else can you accomplish all the things that you're accomplishing? Just as a quick little aside, because I really want to talk more about you because you're so interesting, but why don't you just tell everybody what Novel Publicity is and does, just because everybody's probably going well, what is her business?
Speaker 3:Yeah, novel Publicity is my flagship business that I started in February 2011,. When everybody started calling me a social media expert and I was like I got to do something with this. Back then I used to work 15, 16 hours a day. Probably five years straight I worked 15, 16 hours a day, so I did not have balance for a really long time. The pyramid is relatively new, but I decided I was going to do this, so I went deep and I learned website coding and business and everything and it was immediately successful. That was back in the day when all of this was really new, and one of our flagship services that we got really well known for was blog tours. We haven't offered that service for years.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So a big part of novel publicity is staying on top of what's working for authors now and doing those things. So it's not just doing it because we know it's a good thing, but also that we have the skills to offer it to the level of excellence I want. Right now we're dealing with everybody wants us to do TikTok ads, but I don't know enough about it yet to be confident and I want to make sure that you know we knock it out of the park when we do that. So that's in development. That's a little spoiler. First you hear it is here on the author wheel and when I feel really confident that we're going to do an amazing job with it, it will be available. But we've just constantly changed what we offer based on what's working and what my team can master, and right now we have five departments Facebook ads, amazon ads marketing, international marketing, really big focus on translations and other languages and direct sales development.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, that's great. Yeah, I just was talking to somebody who is working with somebody in your department on Facebook ads and she's thrilled with how it's going for her. She just loves it. So, yeah, that is, and how needed. No wonder that business took off, because we've just had this conversation with somebody who we interviewed, who will be on the podcast soon, about her biggest challenge is marketing, and that is so true for so many, for so many authors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and not everything works for everybody. Like I, have a certain degree of knowledge and competency in all the departments as the CEO, but I'm not running Amazon ads. I do not like them. They do not jive with me. I love running Facebook ads. I'm really good at it. Amazon ads I can do, but I hate and I want to do things I love, because then I get the best results. Direct sales same things. I used to be a web developer. I love building websites. I really do not enjoy direct sales at all, but I have someone on my team who does. So we play to our strengths, interests, abilities and for all of my teams we've done the CliftonStrengths and coaching Rebecca Stein, so that we're really well attuned to the fields we are working in specifically and that we can make sure the clients get the best experience because they have the best person for Amazon ads communicating with the best person for Facebook ads and we're all kind of in the right place.
Speaker 1:That's great, that's so important and we're all kind of in the right place. That's great, that's so important. And I'm just going to put in a little plug for women here, because most of the time I think women are way better at that than men is dialing in who's good at what and getting the egos out of the way and letting everybody shine in their own little corner.
Speaker 2:The difference between the hero's journey and the heroine's journey is really what that comes down to. Are you by yourself defeating the dragon because you're the only person, the chosen one, that can do it, or are you finding the team who can all end up with the win-win outcome in the end?
Speaker 3:We're thinking a fully maxed balance party into the dungeon, my friend.
Speaker 2:Which is funny, because when I play games, that's exactly what I do. I go, okay, well, I need this skill and that skill and I'm going to put them all together and they're going to have the perfect armor I'm currently on playthrough number three of Boulder's Gate 3 in tactility mode, trying to 100% this thing, which takes probably 500 hours to do? Yeah, I would imagine. Yes, like I said, I like pleasure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:But another really important thing for us is like we want to do a good job. I'm not happy if I'm not getting the results. I'm going to beat myself up about it. So all the more motivation. But one thing I realized last year that's been kind of a revelation is that probably about 75% of my personal clients I work with on Facebook ads have ADHD. So I've been really studying and learning and working with a neurodivergent coach to really understand the ADHD brain and how I can better communicate and adapt my service to work with them better, which is especially interesting because I have OCD, which is kind of because I have OCD, which is kind of the opposite of ADHD and I'm like am I a magnet? Are opposites attracting? What's going on? But I'm also giving my team the training to make sure that we understand and incorporate, because so many authors are neurodivergent, including me. So, yes, woman led business, completely woman run business, also a neurodivergent-owned and run business, and we love what we do.
Speaker 1:That's great. So I wonder do you think that the ADHD and Facebook ads part of that is that people who have ADHD maybe struggle a little bit more with the platform itself and that's why they're reaching out for help?
Speaker 3:It's interesting because I asked the neurodivergent coach. I'm like, is it that they're attracted to me because I have OCD? So I kind of like we're the yin and the yang, like I need kind of what they have and they need kind of what I have, and we're kind of opposite, but we need each other. Are they attracted to that force? Or is it just that a lot of authors have ADHD? Or is it that a lot of ADHD authors need help with Facebook ads? And the coach said all of the above probably Makes sense. I think just a lot of authors are neurodivergent and a creative brain works differently, so it makes sense that I think neurotypical is not the norm when it comes to authors. I think a lot of us have something going on.
Speaker 3:I'm currently in the process of being tested for autism spectrum disorder, which has been a lot to handle and swallow. You know I'm almost 40 and they're like what. I don't know this about myself, but I think the world is just getting a lot more educated. My husband was diagnosed with ADHD at 41. He's 42 now, so we've been dealing with that and a lot of authors in our generation I'm an elder millennial are getting diagnosed later in life and the world is kind of adapting for that. But I think, especially with creatives, we've all got something like at least baseline. We all have anxiety like come on.
Speaker 1:We have a good friend who was on the podcast, I don't know, maybe a year ago, who was diagnosed, you know, on the spectrum, with autism, not until she was 60 or something like that, and she's an author, of course, and she just said it just changed her life in so many positive ways because it really helped her to kind of understand why certain things would never work for her, even though she kept trying to do them and make them work for her and then to capitalize on her strengths. You know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to say like I do think I think being neurodivergent or not neuro. You started to say like I do think I think being neurodivergent or not neuro. You started to say something about neurotypical or not neurotypical and it's like yeah, it's not typical for the, for the creative, like.
Speaker 2:Neuro spicy, neuro spicy, yeah, but I think we all do have some element. That's what draws us to the arts. Honestly, I think that's what makes makes our brains put the pieces together in different, unique ways, and no matter what that means, whether that's OCD or ADHD, and if they're on opposite ends of the spectrum, it doesn't really matter. It's that difference in perspective that only you can bring to your story that makes it interesting and makes it art. And I'm going to go off on a slight tangent here. But I think that's why AI won't ever be fully successful, as in writing a novel by itself. Right, like just going okay, I want a novel about this subject because it doesn't have that unique perspective or that spiciness of the brain and the connections that the human brain can bring to the art. So there's my, there's my soapbox rant for the moment.
Speaker 3:So cruel, so controversial, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I know. You know that's me controversial.
Speaker 1:So another thing that you do um, that is a little, uh, different than what a lot of people do is you write many different genres under many different pen names and you also publish in different ways. So you indie publish with some things and you traditionally publish with other things, and so you like mix it up out there. How does that do you think that is something that has helped you to be in balance? Because I think it's something a lot of people resist doing and are they doing themselves a disservice by resisting it. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 3:It's such common advice stay in your lane. Stay in your lane and I'm like but I want to drive over there, but I want to go there, but I want to get off on this exit for a little and sightsee. This is another neurodivergent thing and a lot of people incorrectly assume I have ADHD because sometimes the OCD looks that way. But I get bored. I go 110% at everything, which my child would point out. You can only be 100%. So I go 100% at everything and I'm so intense about what I do that if I keep doing the same thing ad nauseum, my creative brain is going to get bored and I'm going to be unfulfilled.
Speaker 3:So, talking about strengths again and back aside, I am a number one tie for achiever and learner, so I can go toward the goal make this amount of money, get this accolade, have this number of reviews, you know, get this number of words.
Speaker 3:But when I feel like I've maxed out a genre and learned everything there is to learn, I get bored. So I actually tend to quit genres at the height of my success in them because I don't feel like I have a lot more to learn and I'd be more fulfilled going somewhere else. So this year I actually switched both of my genres because I usually have a happy go lucky genre and a darker, like this is what I have to say to the world and leave my legacy behind genre. And I kind of need both so I can switch according to my mood. And previously that was women's fiction with mental health themes and cozy mystery with talking cats, and this year it's going to be fantasy and for happy go lucky, so fantasy, rom com or like funny action, adventure fantasy and psychological thriller. So I kind of need I can't do two dark genres together and I can't do two light genres together. I really need one of each.
Speaker 2:So you need a business and a creative outlet, and then you need a light and a dark outlet. This is what I'm hearing. In other words, you have a split personality. I can take multitudes.
Speaker 3:Why wouldn't I want to share the multitudes, like one of my best and favorite books I've ever written is such a bad seller. But my therapist loves this book because it's so bizarre and it has like every bit of trauma. Like I didn't realize what I was doing when I wrote it, but I gave it to my therapist and we talk about it all the time. So she's like so we're going to discuss your religious trauma, so we're going to discuss this. Oh, I noticed she had people come and rescue her no-transcript feminist post apocalyptic dystopia, which is the one that doesn't do well, sometimes you just have to write that and I was trying for all last year to not write that because I knew it wouldn't sell.
Speaker 3:But I had to and I couldn't write anything else. I tried I had to write that book. Okay, good, it's done. Maybe my next book I'm going to write because it makes me happy and entertains me and that will probably be the one that makes money. But I can't not write the darkness it eventually comes out. So now I'm that's kind of why I'm gravitating towards psychological thriller, because that genre invites the dark really deep probes and you know, ocd and anxiety is a huge asset here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm actually in the process of reading Joanna Penn's Writing the Shadow. I love that book. I was gonna say have you? Have you done any shadow work with that?
Speaker 3:Yes. So I supported that Kickstarter and listened to the audio book and my husband quickly made a rule that I'm not allowed to talk about the shadow with him because it's so triggering. I'm like I learned about how my country and religion are traumatizing me today. I learned about how I'm afraid of aging but not dying. And he's like, please stop talking about this. But I listened to the audio book and did all the work. I actually have a shadow journal in my window sitting right here. But I talked to my therapist about this and I'm like, oh my God, I just learned about this. And she's like, yeah, we've been doing shadow work all year. I just haven't put a label on it. So I'm like, no wonder I was so ready for this. I was already doing the work, yeah, but yeah, I've absolutely loved it. And I also.
Speaker 3:I went to chat GPT and I gave it my trauma book and I said, please assess for shadow, young, shadow, whatever. And then it gave me a list and I'm like, okay, what trauma does this author have in their life? And it's like, well, I can't know for sure. But then it's like, here you go and I'm like, okay, what trauma does this author have in their life. And it's like, well, I can't know for sure. But then it's like, here you go and I'm like, okay, what mental health diagnoses does this author have? And it's like I'm not a therapist.
Speaker 3:However, here you go and I just kept talking about. I'm like, okay, based on your understanding of the author and the work, what genre should I be writing? It's like you should write psychological thrillers. So I saved that chat as robot therapist. That's so funny, and I also go over what robot therapist says with human therapists. I haven't used it in a while. It's kind of like if I'm in desperation, I'll go talk to a robot therapist who understands me very deeply from this work, but I try not to use it because it is very my husband does not like it when I go to these super, super dark places and then want to talk about it at length with him.
Speaker 1:So yeah, Well, it's also a little creepy to know that a computer can know you that well. I don't know that is. It could be another genre.
Speaker 3:Yes, that the robot therapist is how I found out that it was intersectional feminism, which I know what that is and I'm like you're right. Like mechanism, which I know what that is and I'm like you're right.
Speaker 1:Like I had no idea, I had written that awesome, that is interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, and one really helpful thing. And like, hey, what triggers are in here? And I'm like, oh, I would have known this. When I was trying to write the trigger warning for this book, like it gave me the whole list of everything I came up with and more.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh man, I missed an opportunity there wow, yeah, but I think I to say too that sometimes those books, I mean they they are a form of therapy, just writing that book and just putting that out there and I think you know, having those emotional impacts. I understand it didn't sell well, but I bet for the people that it did sell to or that did pick that that chose that book, I bet it spoke to them very deeply because it did resonate. I've gotten some of the best fan mail about that book.
Speaker 3:I bet it spoke to them very deeply because it did resonate. I've gotten some of the best fan mail about that book. Yeah, so it doesn't make money, which is fine I can get money somewhere else but it has really touched a few people and that's been the case whenever I write something really dark. My third novel handled a character with an eating disorder and that one was so difficult that I had to dictate to distance myself Because otherwise it felt too much like my soul pouring, pouring, pouring because it's dealing with things I've dealt with, but I've just the fan mailman. It's okay that this didn't sell because this changed somebody's life. Yeah, usually my talking cat antics don't change people's lives. They bring them some joy, but it's it's. It's less special in a way, even though it's something I enjoy and a lot of people enjoy and it makes money. But I don't know, it's just really special to write that really weird thing. That's what somebody needed and maybe only your book can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's interesting too because my two series are the one that I'm going to be redoing is it's psychological suspense and it's darker, much darker, and I didn't realize how dark it was as opposed to my, you know, mortician murder, which is funny and silly. It's the dark side of death. I mean, the light side of death is the mortician murders, but it's funny. I didn't realize until I was reading to my critique group some of the first book in the first series, because I'm doing some redo on that and everything, and it was like, wow, this is really different than what I've been writing with the mortician series. And I love what you just said because I've had some feedback, the stay in your lane feedback.
Speaker 1:You know well why are you going back to that dark stuff when the brighter, funnier stuff is what's selling? But there is a part of me that wants to do that dark stuff, you know, and I know what you're saying. It's like it's sort of like we each have two sides of the same coin in our. You know, we are a coin and one side might be bright and funny, but the other side is darker and more serious, and sometimes you have to express both yeah, even if one doesn't sell as well as the other one you know, money isn't the only reason to write.
Speaker 3:And even if you think money is the only reason to write, taking the time to write that dark book has helped me on a personal level so much that probably I'm going to get the money back in other projects because I've dealt with something. Emotionally I can relax better, maybe my health is better, so I don't get hit with a $10,000 surgery bill or something. But it's done, something that's contributed. It's not just like here's the money and royalties. That's the value of that Unclogging that creative block. Like I was not going to ever write another book again if I didn't write this book is what it came down to. So all money from all future books is this book, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a really good way of looking at it.
Speaker 2:So now I know your, your psychological thriller that's coming out soon, ish, I know you. I think you wrote it or started or were toying with the idea last year when we, when we met you in Vegas. But now you're taking that one, you're actually writing it and you've just signed or in the process of signing. Can we talk about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just signed on. I'm really excited with Joffy Books UK based publisher. I was a fan of them and reading them, so when I met an editor from them Via Greta.
Speaker 2:We've also met at Vegas. That was a great conference.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh it's a sign, yeah, yeah, how it all came about. It definitely feels fated, because psychological thriller has been my favorite genre as a reader forever and I've always been too afraid to go to that really dark place. So it was a combination of I had had enough therapy to not be afraid and I was drinking at the right time with the right people, which included and um and uh. For whatever reason I mentioned, I'm neurodivergent. I'm weird as well. Um, not necessarily mutually exclusive or anything, but I, I, for whatever reason. At 20 books I decided every time I was drinking I would have a British accent and this British publicer found that not off-putting. My husband showed it and was very embarrassed Having a British accent every time I would drink and ended up with a British publisher. So he told me that that's not related and I should not do that, and probably the Brits are just good at dealing with nonsense and rubbish. So that's not related. And it wasn't my terrible accent that got me a publishing deal, but who knows.
Speaker 1:No, that's true. I will say, though, that the editor was drinking too, so that maybe she just was doing an American accent every time she was drinking. I don't know, so it's like, but I'm excited to read that book because I also devour psychological fiction. I read a lot of it, and the Brits are great at it. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So so, given so, leading into that, then, um, you've done so much indie publishing and you've done traditional publishing and you have multiple pen names, and how do you actually go about making the decision of what project is produced, which way, if that makes sense? Yeah, like, what's your thought process behind that? How do you approach that?
Speaker 3:Um, it's actually a lot of. It is mental health centered. So I also have four books with Kensington under Melissa Storm, women's fiction, and that's where my New York Times came from my letters they put they decided to put me in a collection with Fern Michaels and usually these collections do well but don't hit the New York Times list. Well, this book was called Home Sweet Home and came out the first week of quarantine for COVID when everyone was buying toilet paper. It hit mass market paperback bestseller list because home sweet home when you're stuck at home, great, I'll read this while I'm using all this toilet paper.
Speaker 1:Not for toilet paper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was gonna say let's not make that connection too strongly.
Speaker 3:It was a really happy accident and at the same time, while there's dark and light and everything like at the same time, the fact my that was the prequel and book one was launching a month later and it was sickly. It was about, uh, kids who have lost their parents to cancer, adult children who form a support group. Nobody wanted that at the beginning of COVID and my first big book tour as a trad author canceled. Oh, so COVID was good and bad. Good and bad for my trad career, no regrets for sure. And I hadn't signed another contract yet until I met with Jaffe.
Speaker 3:I always knew that if I was going to write a psych thriller I would want to need a publisher, because I knew it was the type of book I wouldn't be able to write fast. I'd really have to be deep in my brain and I would need somebody to pull me out of it, Because I know it's a little bit dangerous going into because it uses such psychological and mental themes that I can access a very, very dark place. But it's not always safe and my poor husband shouldn't have to be the one every time. He's the one most of the time. But now it's my new editor's job, so that's why I made that decision there.
Speaker 3:Usually I like Indie because I'm not a patient person. So I write something and I want it out immediately and I want to talk about it immediately. And if I don't publish it immediately, I'll forget what it's about because I've written three other books in the meantime. And if I don't publish it immediately, I'll forget what it's about because I've written three other books in the meantime. So I definitely have reasons for going trad, wanting the support, wanting to hit a different audience or to write like a bigger book, wanting to be able to publish slower Most of the time. Indies are really great fit for me because I do love the business side, but I really like having a balance and having some projects in each. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:We were kind of talking a little bit before the show too about, I think, that's.
Speaker 2:I think personally that's where the market is going for authors in particular, where there are going to be projects you're going to want to do traditional and there are going to be projects you want to do indie. And I think that's true for whether you start out traditional and go indie or vice versa you know, greta's also got both and I haven't pitched anything but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility to go that route in the future. I just think it makes so much sense to have a process around which you can decide this project needs the help because it's dark, because it is in a different market, because it doesn't fit the pen name that I've already built, whatever your reason is, but then being able to do that so that, going forward, you're making the best decision for your business as an author and for your books as projects, rather than just being like, oh well, everybody should be indie because it's the only way you can make money. I don't think that's a valid reason anymore, or enough of a reason.
Speaker 3:I think the weight of consequences change as you get further in your career. To like a first book or second book, that's a huge decision into your tread because you don't have the base built up and you don't know what's going to happen. But I have around 150 books. It's hard to say because things get pulled, republished, boxed together. You know I have some shorter works 150-ish. So just about one or two books is not a life-changing decision. So yes, choosing to do something different can be a risk or a gamble. I love gambling. You met me in Vegas. I don't gamble in real life, only with my career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's really true. What you just said is that the decisions are more pivotal in the very beginning, like how you start. But once you get moving along, like deciding to, you know, oh, I think I'll sign. Well, I just signed a contract with Tantor for audiobooks. It's like, because I know I'm not going to get to that, I know that I'm not going to market them adequately if I were to do it all by myself. I just know me and I would rather let somebody else do that, and I would be a nervous wreck trying to pick the right narrator. And then I like people, so I wouldn't want to tell somebody no, you're not the right narrator. That would just be awful for me. So it's like, let somebody else do that and then I can work on. Then it just frees up more time for other projects.
Speaker 3:You know, I would say for me as a person with intense anxiety, sometimes it's worth to take the risk and lose, just so you can cross it off the list and you don't have to wonder what if.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, you know what? That's really good yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You definitely have an awfully a lot of wisdom, melissa. I think you could add a new branch to novel marketing, and it could be novel therapy.
Speaker 3:So I tell I primarily work with Facebook ads clients and then I also do business strategy calls and I always tell my clients, as a Facebook ad specialist, I actually have three roles. Number one is doing your Facebook ads, number two is discussing your strategy and number three is therapy. Seriously, talk to me about anything.
Speaker 2:So, in other words, I need to go sign up to be one of your clients, is what you're saying?
Speaker 3:I mean, a lot of it is like so I'll have authors come to me who have had a really bad experience either with another service provider or tried and failed on their own or something's not connecting and they're really hesitant to trust and so I that it really is like a role of a therapist, of teaching them to trust and how can I earn their trust and and soothe them so they feel good about this decision. So I've gotten really good at those things and then, like I said, I do a lot of therapy myself. Uh, therapy is awesome. Yeah, I would recommend for everybody. I think we're like with Gen Z and Gen Alpha now. I think it's like the standard and people really accepting of that wasn't like that when I was growing up in the 90s, but it is now and that's a great thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I would agree. I think we all need, if not a professional therapist if that's not in somebody's you know, income or whatever. Like good, wise people in your life that you can, that you trust and you can cry on their shoulder about anything is super important.
Speaker 3:And, at the very least, robot therapist. Oh right.
Speaker 1:Chat, gpt and be your therapist too. That's great. So, melissa, why don't you tell everybody where they can find out more about you your pen names, your novel publicity and all the amazing things you do? And that cute cat in your lap?
Speaker 3:Okay, listeners cannot see the cute cat that just jumped in Melissa's neck the mean cat I warned you about who might start a fight with my dog. He'll just stay here and be admired and not start anything. Usa Today bestselling author, which is ridiculous, but he is. It had both of our names on the book because I wrote a fictional biography about him and his name was the title, so I consider that being him being a USA Today. Anyway, that's really funny.
Speaker 2:But that's great. He's a big, beautiful, fluffy cat and I'm just right in front of this screen.
Speaker 3:Yes, so I'm an easy person to find. You might know me as Melissa Storm or Molly Fitz. My newest pen name is Luna Ryder, but if you look up Melissa Storm you will find me and Novel Publicity. If you're interested in my books, you know free books for signing up for everything Novel Publicity. You can always book a call and see. And you can reach out to me in social media. I have a group on Facebook where I post free videos whenever I feel like teaching anything. I don't sell courses. I used to. I don't like doing it, I'd rather just share stuff for free. So that group is out there. I think it's called Facebook ads and marketing mastery with Melissa storm and one of my goals that I made today is to post in there once a week with short videos. So that's a really good place to find me. Novel publicity website is novel publicitycom. I just reorged and I did a major sweep of the business avail and current needs, so it's super clean and nice and ready for you to look at Awesome.
Speaker 1:Hey, all right. Well, this has just been amazingly good and given me so much to think about. So I'm sure that's true for all of you listeners. And if you would like some more clarity about who you are as a writer and what you're doing and why you're doing it, we do have a free seven-day course on our website Seven Days to Clarity. Uncover your Author Purpose, and each day you'll get an email that'll lead you toward writing an author business statement or mission statement, excuse me, and then turning that mission statement into a tagline. And all of that is at authorwheelcom. So until next time, keep your stories rolling.
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