ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
Have you ever considered the hidden costs of the foods you eat every day? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Dr. Tom O'Brien, an internationally acclaimed expert in food sensitivities, environmental toxins, and autoimmune diseases. Dr. Tom shares his transformative journey from a struggling intern to a leading authority, shedding light on how his own battle with infertility led him to uncover the profound impact of food on health. Discover why wheat and gluten might be more problematic than you think, especially in today's toxin-laden food landscape, and how these everyday foods could be linked to inflammation and a host of chronic conditions.
JUMP RIGHT TO IT:
9:01 Leaky Gut and Chronic Inflammation
26:10 The Impact of Gluten on Health
46:03 Strategies for Inflammation
1:00:11 Simplifying Excess for Health Concerns
1:04:56 Understanding the Inflammation Equation
CONNECT WITH TOM:
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https://www.instagram.com/thedrtomobryan
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzlefeGh3JA-Nm0jtf9iYoQ
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-tom-o-bryan-10433920/
JOIN A HISTORIC NEVER-BEFORE-SEEN MOMENT…
where Dr. Tom O’Bryan and 70 of the world’s top doctors & researchers change the medical field for good. You are going to join a part of medical history.
Join 100,000+ others during this FREE live airing: https://theinflammationequation.com
Revitalize your faith and fitness with a morning routine that does not sacrifice your sleep and does start each day with God's Word and a workout. Join the community today at www.earlymorninghabit.com
Contact The Show!
Website: http://www.ahnafulmer.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@imperfectlyempoweredpodcast
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ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
Have you ever considered the hidden costs of the foods you eat every day? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Dr. Tom O'Brien, an internationally acclaimed expert in food sensitivities, environmental toxins, and autoimmune diseases. Dr. Tom shares his transformative journey from a struggling intern to a leading authority, shedding light on how his own battle with infertility led him to uncover the profound impact of food on health. Discover why wheat and gluten might be more problematic than you think, especially in today's toxin-laden food landscape, and how these everyday foods could be linked to inflammation and a host of chronic conditions.
JUMP RIGHT TO IT:
9:01 Leaky Gut and Chronic Inflammation
26:10 The Impact of Gluten on Health
46:03 Strategies for Inflammation
1:00:11 Simplifying Excess for Health Concerns
1:04:56 Understanding the Inflammation Equation
CONNECT WITH TOM:
https://www.facebook.com/thedr.com.english/
https://www.instagram.com/thedrtomobryan
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzlefeGh3JA-Nm0jtf9iYoQ
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-tom-o-bryan-10433920/
JOIN A HISTORIC NEVER-BEFORE-SEEN MOMENT…
where Dr. Tom O’Bryan and 70 of the world’s top doctors & researchers change the medical field for good. You are going to join a part of medical history.
Join 100,000+ others during this FREE live airing: https://theinflammationequation.com
Revitalize your faith and fitness with a morning routine that does not sacrifice your sleep and does start each day with God's Word and a workout. Join the community today at www.earlymorninghabit.com
Contact The Show!
Website: http://www.ahnafulmer.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@imperfectlyempoweredpodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ahnafulmer/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ahnadfulmer
Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Imperfectly Empowered podcast. I am your host, anna Fulmer. Dr Tom O'Brien is an internationally recognized speaker focused on food sensitivities, environmental toxins and the development of autoimmune diseases. He has a faculty position with the Institute for Functional Medicine and the National University of Health Sciences. For Functional Medicine and the National University of Health Sciences. Author of you Can Fix your Brain and the Autoimmune Fix. Welcome, the Sherlock Holmes of chronic diseases, dr Tom O'Brien. Dr Tom, it is so lovely to have you here. I would love to press rewind a little bit for you and just get a sense of how you even got to where you are right now. It is so easy to see where somebody is currently at, but how did you even get to where you currently are and what created this passion for you?
Speaker 2:Yes, when I was an intern in 1979, my ex and I could not get pregnant and I had been reading some holistic health stuff already, and so I called the seven most famous holistic doctors I'd ever heard of and I was able to reach all of them and I called and asked for the office manager and said hi, you know, my wife and I, I'm just an intern here in Chicago, but my wife and I can't get pregnant. I'm wondering if I could schedule some time to talk with the doctor, just for a couple minutes, and I'm happy to send you a check or something. You know we don't have any money, but I'll do what I can. Okay, honey, you hold on, I'll get them right now. And they always did right. And so I was able to ask these very famous doctors at the time what do you do for infertility? And they would say things like well, do you know what a category one is? I'd say no and they'd say learn. Okay, category one. And I just wrote down everything and I put a program together and we were pregnant in six weeks.
Speaker 2:My neighbors in married housing we lived on campus, they had been through artificial insemination and nothing had worked for them and they asked if I'd work with them and I said well, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I don't think it's going to harm you. They were pregnant in three months, so now we're four months pregnant, just happy to tell the world and tell our friends in Chicago and our friend's sister in Wisconsin that had two miscarriages, and called and said can I come talk to you, please, please. And I was talking to people out of my dorm room. You're not supposed to do that and there's not much in medicine. That's all or every. But this was in every principle. In every principle.
Speaker 2:Every couple that had any type of hormone-related imbalances whether it was fibrocystic breasts, premature ejaculation, unexplained miscarriages every single couple, as a component of what was contributing to the environment creating the problems they were having, they were eating foods they did not know were causing inflammation for them because they didn't get gut symptoms when they ate the food. So they thought the food was fine, but they got reproductive systems or brain symptoms, but not gut symptoms. Now we know, the science is really clear. The ratio is eight to one. For every one person that gets gut symptoms with a problem with wheat, for example, there are eight people that don't get gut symptoms. They get brain symptoms or skin or gallbladder, but not gut. So they don't associate what they're eating with what's fueling the inflammation that's causing the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's not specifically gut related. Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm just curious. You'll hear it all the time.
Speaker 2:You know I'm the guy that's been out there since 2002 on stage talking about the dangers of wheat and gluten, and you hear it all the time. Well, I feel fine when I eat wheat, and so it doesn't matter how you feel, because the ratio is eight to one. So if you're going to use how your gut feels when you eat the product to determine if it's safe for you or not, you'll get it right one out of eight times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now I'm curious to kind of frame it. From the beginning. In my own journey and then when I became a health and fitness coach and specifically worked with nutritional clients, I saw when we talked about gluten what was interesting were the observations that it did seem to make a difference the quality of the food that they were eating. And I may be getting ahead of ourselves here, but in terms of even just talking about gluten, is it the gluten itself or is it the way that it has been so drastically modified and distorted over the years, that is, with toxins in the environment, that is causing the issue? Or is, like gluten in and of itself, the issue? Meaning? Is it more this need to pursue this more organic, natural path of living versus one specific ingredient causing? That was poorly worded, but hopefully that somewhat came across.
Speaker 2:I understand the question very well. It's a common question from educated people in the healthcare field. So is it really the food or is it what they've done to the food? Bottom line is what I'm hearing you saying, because a lot of people well, it's the glyphosate. No, it's not. So let me give you a little anatomy for your listeners. Give you a little anatomy for your listeners.
Speaker 2:We have sentries standing guard. I think of them as the soldiers at Buckingham Palace, those guys with the big hats. You know that we have sentries in the first part of our small intestine. Actually they're throughout the entire body, but for this discussion, in the first part of the small intestine. They're called toll-like receptors and there are centuries that are watching everything that comes out of the stomach into the first part of the small intestine, because things don't get absorbed in the stomach in general they don't they get absorbed in the intestine. So our ancestors we have the same body as our ancestors thousands of years ago the same kidneys, the same eyes, the same immune system.
Speaker 2:And our ancestors before agriculture. They were nomads. They followed the herds to have sources of food, and so primary concern for them was food. So they find something, first, they sniff it, then they nibble at it and then they eat it. Well, if there was pathogens on that food, bad bacteria, dangerous bacteria on that food that they couldn't identify by smell or by taste, the acid in our stomach is supposed to kill it. But if it didn't kill it and it comes in that glob of food into the first part of the small intestine, the sentries are standing guard just watching everything. They're watching every morsel of what comes through to see if there's any bad bugs, and they're dormant. They're not doing anything unless they see a bad bug and they look for it for the protein structure of that bug. That's what they're looking for when they see a threat. Two things happen within five minutes and it's really cool. If you like, I'll send you the videos afterwards that they did at Harvard on this. They're very cool to watch.
Speaker 2:Two things happen. First, the messenger, the toll-like receptor, sends a message to increase the production of the protein zonulin. Now we know that's the mechanism of what's been called leaky gut. Leaky gut is not bad for you. Excessive leaky gut is bad for you. But when you increase the zonulin protein you open the space between the cells a little bit, so water comes from the body into the lumen of the gut, into the small intestine. Why it's washing out the threat with the poop. So you're flushing it away. So you're flushing it away.
Speaker 2:Leaky gut is a life-saving mechanism we inherited from our ancestors. It saves our life every day. And those ancestors that didn't have good toll-like receptor function, they died. They did not reproduce, so they don't have lineage carrying poor toll-like receptor function. Those that had good toll-like receptor function survived, reproduced. Their offspring carried those same genetics and that's what we all have inherited today is really good toll-like receptor function throughout our body.
Speaker 2:But for this discussion in our gut to identify if there's a bug coming in. So the first thing that happens tolic receptor increases zonulin production. The protein opens a space, water comes into the gut. The second thing that happens is you increase NF-kappa B, the major amplifier of inflammation. This is the desk sergeant in the police station. You guys, you're over in this neighborhood today. You guys, you're over here, you go over here and I need extra people over there today. That's NF-kappa-B. It's the major amplifier of our protective cytokines, our protective inflammatory markers. All of that happens Increase onulin, increase NF-kappa B within five minutes of a bug coming out of the stomach into the first part of the small intestine Happens in every human every time. Here's the kicker.
Speaker 2:Alessio Fasano is at Harvard. This guy professor of medicine, harvard Medical School, professor of nutrition, harvard School of Public Health, chief of pediatric gastroenterology Mass General, harvard director in the Celiac Research Center, harvard director of mucosal immunology, harvard Five titles Any one title is a lifelong dream for someone. At the top of their game. He's got five. This guy is on a different level in how he thinks and how he teaches. He is always so careful of what he says so he's not misquoted. You know, and there are hundreds, of hundreds of articles by him and his team and you'll see an article it's a really good article about leaky gut and pancreas or leaky gut and brain or whatever it should be. And there's eight authors and the last one Alessio Fasano. The stamp that it's approved by the boss right. This article he wrote by himself. So it gives you a sense of how important he thinks. This message is that he wrote it by himself. The title of the article, and anyone can go on Google and just download the article. It's marvelous to read. It's marvelous to read.
Speaker 2:All disease begins in the quote leaky gut the role of zonulin in the development of chronic inflammatory diseases. Now, I didn't mention this, yet the CDC tells us that 14 of the 15 top causes of death today are chronic inflammatory diseases. It's always inflammation. Except for unintentional injuries, it's always inflammation, always. It doesn't matter Cancer, heart disease, alzheimer's doesn't matter, it's always inflammation. Now we have Fasano, who we think is going to win the Nobel Prize because it's him and his team that identified this mechanism of zonulin back in 1997, and the whole world of leaky gut. Now we have Fasano writing all disease begins in the leaky gut, the role of zonulin in the development of chronic inflammatory diseases. And when you so that gives credibility to the concept.
Speaker 2:Yeah to the concept right right, right, when you read his article tells you now once again toll-like receptor identifies the protein structure of the bug coming out of the stomach and said, whoa, that's a bug kill it doesn't like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the article that fasano writes, he tells us gluten is misinterpreted as a harmful component of a microorganism. The protein structure of these peptides of gluten. Because no human can digest gluten down to amino acids we can't, no one can. The best we can do is break it down into clumps of amino acids. Those are called peptides, and gluten is misinterpreted as a harmful component of a microorganism. This is from Fasano and this is what they're teaching at Harvard Medical School right now. Then you go to Maureen Leonard, famous gastroenterologist at Harvard. She did a literature review of this topic and she published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. She looked at over 60 studies on this topic and her summary is gluten is misinterpreted as a harmful component of a microorganism. This occurs in all humans who consume gluten, and so anyone who's listening today, if you're a human, that means every time. Now your wife may not think you're a human sometimes, but every time you eat New podcast, different podcast.
Speaker 2:Right, right. Every time you eat wheat, you activate this inflammatory cascade in your gut, in every human. Well, I feel fine when I eat wheat. It doesn't matter how you feel. The ratio is eight to one. You'll only get it right one time out of eight if you screen for this by how you feel when you eat the food.
Speaker 1:Now let me ask you this really quick. So the research. I've obviously not read either of these experts on their research, but the actual studies that were being done. Was the quality of the gluten included as a variable or a controlled factor in their studies? Meaning, were they saying the same response to the protein structure of organic gluten, to gluten that is not being considered organic, or how was that?
Speaker 2:controlled? For I understand the question. There are hundreds of studies on this topic, hundreds no. Ancient wheats are no better. Once you've crossed the line of tolerance and your immune system says that's it no more wheat, and you start making antibodies to wheat. The ancient grains have the same peptide structure. Because you can't break down. The ancient grains have the same peptide structure because you can't break down the ancient grains, so when they break into peptides they're the same, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Now the quality of the wheat today is much worse than it was 30, 40 years ago, and that impacts on the microbiome. That impacts on many aspects of the discussion on the value of the food. But this is a life-saving mechanism for all humans. It's not because of the processing, it's because of the product itself. Wheat is not a food. Now. It's saved millions and millions of lives. There's beneficial components to wheat you can't argue with that, of course, and 78 to 81% of the prebiotic in the Western diet comes from the rabbinal xylans in wheat, which means that your microbiome is completely dependent on wheat. That's how you've grown up.
Speaker 2:So people who get identified as having an immune reaction to wheat, that may be contributing to their Hashimoto's or their MS or their rheumatoid or their acne or their migraines or their child's asthma. It doesn't matter the symptoms. There's hundreds and hundreds of studies on this. So people who are identified that their immune system is fighting wheat, you can't have any of it because the toll-like receptors will respond at the nanogram level, that's a billionth of a gram.
Speaker 2:So if you have contamination in the food you're eating for example, you go to a sushi restaurant you have to ask them. Please ask the chef if he puts flour in his sushi rice, and the waitress will say oh, no, no, no, no, no, flour, no flour. I understand, please ask the chef. Oh, no, no, no. Please ask the chef. And three out of five times it happened to me the waitress came back and said oh, we're very sorry. Yes, chef puts a scoop of flour in the sushi rice to make it stickier. They didn't know. So people don't know, but you get the inadvertent exposure. You activate that whole inflammatory cascade when you're eating some food that's supposed to be safe for you rice.
Speaker 1:So with this, because I'll so I'll play devil's advocate for a second. One of the dangers that I see in the gluten-free movement and part of this is education, certainly, but on the flip side. So we have people who are prioritizing a lack of gluten in their diet, but then all of the products that they're buying gluten-free are processed.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. You know all of the other, and so I guess it's like how do we find? I talk about the dangers. I talk about the dangers of the gluten-free diet. You increase mortality on a gluten-free diet if you don't do it correctly. You do?
Speaker 1:Oh, say that one more time. Just say that one more time for everyone who missed it in the back.
Speaker 2:You increase mortality on a gluten-free diet if you don't know what you're doing. In Sweden they've got socialized medicine. They've got records on everybody and they looked at 350,000 endoscopy biopsies. Now that's when you put a tube down the throat and you look in the intestines, you snip out a little piece and you look at it under a microscope. So these were patients who went to their doctor, who were sent to a gastroenterologist for an endoscopy biopsy. They had some health complaint and they found 39,000 of those 350,000 were celiac patients. The rest were colitis or Crohn's or cancer or no problem whatever, but there were 39,000 that were celiacs. They followed those people for 25 or 30 years. What happened to them after they had the endoscopy biopsy? Because I have records on everybody.
Speaker 2:If you were diagnosed with celiac disease, you had an 86% increased risk of dying within one year from a cardiovascular incident, from a cardiovascular incident, and you had almost a fourfold increased risk of dying within one year from a cancer compared to the other 300,000 people that had colitis or Crohn's or cancer, whatever they had. But you had this huge risk of dying early if you were diagnosed with celiac disease compared to all the rest of them. And this was like what, and this is in the Journal of the American Medical Association. It's the largest study on mortality with celiac disease ever and you think about this and you can say what. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What and for?
Speaker 1:those people that don't understand the what is confusing? Because we're talking like all of them include underlying inflammatory issues, so like it wouldn't make sense why that's isolated. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:So there was something that happened to these people after they were diagnosed with celiac. Well, they're not given any medications. There is no medication for this. What were they told to do? Go on a gluten-free diet, anything else, anything else. No, that was it. Now how could that be a contributor to this increased risk?
Speaker 2:It's really easy when you look at the science. If you've grown up and developed the microbiome that you have which we know is all disease begins in the gut. It's the microbiome that we there's only one thing you're going to focus on, mrs Patient build a healthy, diverse microbiome. Nothing is more impactful to your overall health Absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2:So if you grow up and 78 to 81% of the prebiotics the foods that feed the good guys in your gut if 78 to 81% of that is coming from wheat, and you stop eating wheat because you've been diagnosed with a problem with wheat, and you start eating the gluten-free stuff because you want to replace your bread and you want to replace your pasta. You want to replace your pasta, you want to replace your cookies, you want to replace your muffins, and so you use the gluten-free stuff, which is just white paste. There's no nutritive value to it whatsoever. Well, immediately, most people start feeling better. They start losing weight. Within three months They've lost 10 to 20 pounds without trying. It's all water because they stop eating a food that's causing so much inflammation. But in the meantime you're starving, the good bacteria in your gut and they start dying off. And the bad guys in your gut love this white paste, this gluten-free stuff. They love it, so you keep eating.
Speaker 1:Because it's meeting that protein structure that they like. That's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. And the glycemic index.
Speaker 1:So it's like false advertising a little bit.
Speaker 2:That's right. And so the result is six months, eight months, 10 months down the road. Now you've got severe dysbiosis, meaning too many bad guys, not enough good guys in your gut. 36% of all the small molecules in the bloodstream are the exhaust of the bacteria in your gut. They're the messengers that are going out to activate your genes throughout your entire body. We know from Michael Gershon at Princeton that he wrote the book in 1999, the Second Brain. For every one message from the brain going down telling the gut what to do, there are nine messages from the gut going up telling the brain what to do, and most of that is coming from the bacteria in your gut, the exhaust of the bacteria. But now you've been starving the good bacteria feeding the bad bacteria. So the messages in your bloodstream from the bacteria are messages of inflammation, dysbiosis, poor function and you increase mortality. So that's the mechanism that occurs.
Speaker 2:So gluten-free diet is really great for you, but you have to know how to do it properly. You don't substitute the white crap excuse me for the wheat that you were eating before. You don't do that. No, look, I'm half Italian. I'm going to have a little gluten-free pasta once in a while. Who cares? But it's like once every two, three, four weeks. It's not every day that I'm eating any of that kind of stuff, and we found some really great gluten-free bread that we keep in the freezer. But some of that stuff tastes like cardboard I mean. It's just terrible. But there's some really good ones now, and so just yesterday I had an egg salad sandwich on a slice of gluten-free bread. That was delicious and it was whole grains with nuts and seeds, but it was delicious. So once in a while, who cares?
Speaker 1:So you would do a processed gluten-free pasta before an organic whole wheat pasta. No, no oh before organic whole wheat pasta. No, no, I would oh okay, oh, oh, before.
Speaker 2:organic whole wheat pasta.
Speaker 1:Like if you had like. If you had to choose between the two, you would do a processed gluten-free or anything. Fill in the blank. You would do a processed gluten-free, you know whatever, versus the organic version of it. Oh, there's no question.
Speaker 2:Every human activates leaky gut and inflammation every time they eat wheat, whether you feel it or not. And that's the gateway in the development of autoimmune diseases. All disease begins in the gut. That's the big picture that we have to remember. When you read the science on this, it's not my idea. But when you read the science you can't just conveniently say, okay, I'll listen to this science, but I'm not going to listen to that.
Speaker 1:You can't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah, because it's not convenient, just because the data isn't convenient doesn't mean you can disregard it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hear that that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right, so it may be you say you know what. I've never heard that kind of a concept before. This may be a fluke article. I need to read a little more about this. I mean that's rational, but then when you go into the literature.
Speaker 2:you, oh my God, look at, look at all these. Just Google schizophrenia and gluten. Just Google it. Here come all the studies by psychiatrists that sometimes and it's about 14% of schizophrenics go into complete remission on a gluten-free diet and a year later they're off all their medications with their psychiatrist's approval. Just Google it and you go, my God really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a really ignorant question. Like so ignorant and embarrassing, considering I was a nutrition coach for several years, but like way back when, like, say, bible times, what ingredients were people using to make bread? Cause we know bread is a very, very old concept. What, what ingredients were people using? Like were they using wheat even then.
Speaker 2:They, they were um like it, like one of the ancient grains, but it was a rare occurrence. It wasn't a multiple time a day, every day occurrence.
Speaker 1:Right, yes.
Speaker 2:There are other contributing factors as to why wheat is the most impactful food. When you give it up, for the vast majority of people that has the biggest impact on reducing the inflammation in your body. Now there are a few people where dairy is the big kahuna. When they give up dairy, all of a sudden their asthma of 30 years is gone and they're breathing better, and all of that. But in general, wheat is the one that has so many benefits. People have had unexplained miscarriages, they go gluten-free and they have a healthy pregnancy and a healthy delivery. In the journal Gas Venterology they published a paper 50% of children with drug-resistant epilepsy which means, by definition, they've tried at least three drugs and they're not working which means, by definition, they've tried at least three drugs and they're not working. 50% of those kids go into complete remission on a gluten-free diet. They have no more seizures. Well, wait a minute. Why didn't my neurologist tell me that?
Speaker 1:Because he doesn't read gastroenterology journals he reads neurology journals. Right, right, yeah, it's like in the ER, when we'd have to consult the neurology and cardiology at the same time. It's like you always got ready to rumble. Yes, right.
Speaker 1:You know, because the experts don't. You're like, okay, okay, you stay over there, you stay over there. So again, kind of like playing the devil's advocate in here, because people listening might be thinking this. So you know, in one sense you go gluten free and then you increase your mortality because you didn't do it right. On the other hand, studies are saying they go this correctly that you're also eliminating a lot of the processed and just added sugar that inherently comes into our diet with a lot of gluten-rich food. So how much of it? Again I'm respectfully asking, like the pushback, somebody might be thinking how much of it is again the gluten? Certainly it's contributing to it. And then what percentage of value do we give on the amount of added sugar that is also eliminated from some of these diets, which?
Speaker 2:is certainly also contributing.
Speaker 2:You bet. You bet it's a big problem today the added sugars and that are in our diet and insulin resistance, and it's a big problem. What we have to remember and I call it the 101, you know it's basic, the basic understanding about disease. Look, we are increasing the gap between total lifespan and healthy lifespan. The gap is getting bigger. In men it's 21%. In women it's 24%. Of their life, the last 21% of their life is not healthy, meaning they've got immobilizing disease. It's getting worse and worse and worse. So we have to keep in mind what's going on here. Why is every auto immune disease going up four to nine percent a year? Every single one of them? Why are so many kids on antidepressants and anti-anxiety? And it's going up every year? Why is all this happening?
Speaker 2:One of the things we have to keep in mind as a basic 101 concept is that it's inflammation, that your immune system is getting activated, trying to protect you. So the question is what's it trying to protect you from? And as you begin to reduce the amount of gasoline you're throwing on the fire, you have to identify is it gasoline or kerosene? Is it charcoal, lighter fluid? Is it gasoline or kerosene? Is it charcoal, lighter fluid or lighter fluid. I mean, where is the influx? Is it dairy or is it weed? Is it mold or is it toxic thoughts? Where is the inflammation yeah.
Speaker 1:social media yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Where is the inflammation coming from and when you look from that big picture perspective, you get the most bang for your buck most of the time not every single time, but most of the time when you go gluten-free in a healthy way. Yehuda Schoenfeld is considered the godfather of autoimmunity. Many, many credentials to his name. He runs the immunology department at Tel Aviv University in Israel. To give you a sense of this guy, when I interviewed him, 26 of the MD PhDs who received their PhD in immunology there 26,. There are many, many more, but 26 chair departments of immunology in medical schools and hospitals around the world. They're his students. This is the godfather.
Speaker 2:He published a paper two years ago the benefits of a gluten-free diet in non-celiac autoimmune disease. Okay, and they did a literature review and he said that 78% of the people get better and this was confirmed in 65% of the studies. They get better on a gluten-free diet. And there were 28 different autoimmune diseases they identified Cardiomyopathy, hashimoto's, thyroid disease, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, primary biliary sclerosis. It didn't matter what the autoimmune disease was. Over 75% 78% of them got better on a gluten-free diet. Stop throwing gasoline on the fire. All disease begins in the gut, so when wheat comes in. It opens up excess leaky gut, excess inflammation. So when you stop throwing gasoline on the fire, the antibodies to your specific autoimmune disease start coming down, coming down. The inflammation starts coming down. You feel better across the board.
Speaker 1:I'm curious those studies, were they multicultural? Were there multiple countries?
Speaker 2:Did they?
Speaker 1:see a significant reduction. More prevalent in one culture over another.
Speaker 2:That's a really good question.
Speaker 1:I don't know. That said I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I also think it's fascinating. It's a fascinating conversation. Just the difference in even um, you know clients that I've had who are very, very sensitive to gluten and they eat gluten here in the United States and their skin's breaking out and they, you know, their gut is in so much pain, they feel terrible, and then they go to a different country and they don't have the same response and in their mind it's like the gluten is is just not being created. Equal to your point I hear your point that, regardless, the protein structure is not appreciated by the body, no matter what quality?
Speaker 1:But it's interesting yeah, culturally, just to see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really a good point and a lot of people bring that up about. I go to Europe and I can eat the wheat and I'm fine. No, you're not, no, you're not, no, you're not, no, you're not. When you read the science once again, you find that somewhere around seven to nine percent of people who have a sensitivity to gluten get gut symptoms.
Speaker 1:The rest of them don't right. They get brain symptoms, something else.
Speaker 2:And it's the FODMAPs in wheat, the fermentable carbohydrates, that cause the bloating and the gas and the cramps. Well, the wheat in Europe is lower in FODMAPs. So they go to Europe, they eat the wheat, they don't get the bloating, they think they're fine. But if they come back to the US and eat the wheat, they're not. And so patients come to me all the time and say I'm going to Italy, it's okay to eat the wheat there. Yeah, I said no, Well, wait, doc. And I said look, you understand now, Mrs Patient. The bottom line. The bottom line is is your immune system activated, trying to protect you from wheat? That's the bottom line. It doesn't matter how you feel.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:Are you creating inflammation because of wheat? Now, we did the initial tests. You were highly positive. You followed the guidelines. We did the follow-up test. You're negative. Way to go, high five to you. Way to go. And we just did that follow-up test a month ago. And you're not eating wheat, are you? No, no, no, okay, good, so let's assume the test is still negative. Go to Italy, enjoy yourself, come back and do the test and let's see what we get. And when they come back, every single person their antibodies are sky high and their Hashimoto's thyroid antibodies have come back, or their rheumatoid antibodies have come back, it doesn't matter. Their brain antibodies have come back. But I didn't feel bad when I ate the wheat. That's because it's lower in FODMAPs. It's the gluten.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's the gluten proteins that activate the immune response. The FODMAPs activate the bloating and the gas and cramping.
Speaker 1:Well, and then to what you're saying yeah, for those patients too, it's what you're alluding to is the idea that it is true, within America's culture, all of the other additives that we're putting into food is not as prevalent, and so it's not even necessarily the gluten to your point, it's all of the other stuff that is not being put in to the food in Italy that might be causing less of a systemic response outside of what's obvious.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, they still get the systemic response when they come back and we do the test again, but they don't get the bloating and the gas.
Speaker 1:The gut Right? Yes, which makes sense. That makes sense. We, ok, in a minute we're going to dive in. I know you're all wondering the answer to this question because we haven't actually touched on it yet. We're gonna dive into Dr Tom's expert advice on how we positively do gluten free the right way and help reverse that cause of inflammation. Because obviously we've already determined if you go gluten free and you don't do it right, well, you just increased your mortality. So we're going to address that in a second, but first we're going to play a really quick round of would you rather? He didn't know he was signing up for this, but he can handle it, he's been around the world. Would you rather lecture on specifically? You would rather lecture on gluten or lecture on autoimmune disease? I realize they're not separated, but which one would you add? If you had to go deep into one, which would it be Autoimmune?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because when you, when you and my book, the autoimmune fix, when the national book award, you know because when, when you talk about autoimmunity, the question is where does it come from? Well, it comes from inflammation and all disease begins in the leaky gut. And well, where does the leaky gut come from? Funny, you should ask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's ready to roll right now. He's ready to roll. He's talked about this so many times. I love it. Would you rather go to France or Italy?
Speaker 2:Italy.
Speaker 1:Italy. How many times have you been to Italy?
Speaker 2:eight, eight or 10.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. If you could, let me ask this If you could go to any one place in the world because you love it there so much, where would you go?
Speaker 2:We're moving to Italy in four weeks.
Speaker 1:Are you? That's amazing. Do you have family there still?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I have many many cousins, my grandparents, came from Italy in 1922. You know, they got married and two weeks later they hopped on a boat. They were very poor family up in the mountains and they didn't have any future there and they had no money. They didn't speak the language, but they wanted a better life, you know. And so they came to America and they worked in the factories in Detroit for 50 years.
Speaker 2:They worked really hard, but they had a great life and because of them and what they did, I got to go to college, you know, and so this is the American dream and I am all for people coming into the US, you know, and having opportunities. But there's a way to do it. There's a way not to do it.
Speaker 1:Sure Wow, that's amazing. I know we've got so many future podcasts lined up, so many wives, immigration, you name it.
Speaker 2:And to to the other side of my family to give acknowledgement. My O'Brien, my O'Brien family, came over in 1757 to Maryland from Ireland and they fought in the Revolutionary War and they were awarded lands in the wilderness and so they, as a result of that, they, got in a couple of wagons and it took them over two years to go from Maryland to Kentucky. There were no roads, rivers to cross, and all of that right Wild stories. Yeah, it's hard to believe it's real sometime.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like we. Just it's so far removed from our understanding of what life and I think that's one of the things I love about places like Italy. I've not been to Italy, but I've been to several other countries in Europe but it's easier to imagine that time in life because there's a historicity to the buildings and the landscape. It's just easier to believe that that history actually happened where here sometimes you just see our very, you know concrete jungles and it's just hard sometimes to imagine Right.
Speaker 2:And you're on your iWatch and you're watching something you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, like what People have always had watches. What are we talking about? Yeah, oh, it's so true. Ok, last question. Now I need to ask this If we, if we, could go to one place in Italy, like we're taking a trip to Italy, where's the one place we need to go?
Speaker 2:Wow, that's really hard because there's different experiences. I think everyone needs to see Rome. Everyone needs to see Rome, everyone needs to see Florence. He did that 300 years ago, wow, wow. And it gives you a depth of appreciation for where humanity has come from.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's one exhibit that I've made slides of. I take a picture of this Galileo's Museum. Galileo's museum it's a dome-like structure, probably a foot and a half high glass dome. Inside of it is the skeleton of a hand and one finger. It's Galileo's finger, and in his will he bequeathed that all of his inventions could be put on display and be used, as long as they displayed his hand and his finger. It was Galileo's middle finger. It was his last message to the church. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:Well, and the irony in that all is. Maybe the creation of his hand was the greatest invention in all of his own inventions, exactly right.
Speaker 2:And when you read the story of Galileo, he talked about all of these concepts and he was banished and forbidden to talk about these concepts that we now know are true because they weren't popular. And so when we talk about things like wheat activating, your immune system in every human.
Speaker 2:It's not popular, but usually people have to get sick enough before they're willing to do it. You just do the test. I never tell people you have to go gluten-free. Do the test, let's see if your immune system is fighting wheat. And now there's testing available that's comprehensive and accurate. Mayo Clinic's published a number of papers 97 to 100% sensitivity and specificity. It's called the Wheat Zoomer because you zoom in on the problem. It looks at 28 different components of wheat.
Speaker 2:Most doctors, the tests they have available at their hospitals, is looking at one peptide of wheat called alpha-glycogen, which is important. About 50% of celiacs will have that one elevated, but 50% don't. Well, wait a minute. They're allergic to wheat. But you're saying the test is negative. Yeah, but that's because it's only one component of wheat. You need to look at more and that's what the wheat zoomer. So when people say, well, how do I find out? You just do the wheat zoomer and it's a finger prick. It's so easy to do. And then then you know, as a matter of fact, if you have the interest, you are welcome to do the test yourself and I'll come back on your show and interpret it for you.
Speaker 1:So that'd be so fun. We should do that. I'm in. Yeah, yeah, I'll get. I'll have to get that information for you. Oh my gosh, That'd be so fun. People are like wait, why does that sound fun? I think it sounds fun. I love looking at data. Okay, Listen you guys.
Speaker 1:He's going to answer this question that we've all been thinking Like we've learned about all the things that are happening that we don't like in our body. No good, but there is hope, obviously. This is why he speaks all around the world, and one of the massive, massive opportunities for you guys to learn more about this is a docuseries that is coming up and it is basically going to as was mentioned on the website and you can understand why potentially change part of medical history. Dr Tom O'Brien and 70 of the world's top doctors and researchers are going to talk about this inflammation equation and what I appreciate is there's a very global focus, and y'all know how I feel about when we're like America is the best. Okay, let's hold our horses and really make sure that we're focusing on humanity as a whole, which includes global impact and vision, which is precisely what they're doing here 70 of the world's top doctors going to talk about inflammation.
Speaker 1:On this docu-series we're going to get a little snippet of the positive that we're going to hear from Dr Tom but you guys want to check that out. The link is going to be in the show notes, so you're going to hear the problem and then, just as importantly if not more so, we're going to talk about the solution. How do we overcome this root cause of inflammation? So, briefly, a little sneak peek. We've talked about yes, you can go gluten-free, and that's important. But how do we then make the gut happy in that gluten-free process so that we're actually making a difference in closing that gap between healthy living and total living? Because, as we know, that is definitely widening. We see that all around us. So how do we do that?
Speaker 2:well, it's really interesting. I could answer it with a number of different themes. One of the themes that consistently came up again and again is that we only heal. You know, mrs Patient, you have an entirely new body every few years. Every cell in your body regenerates, every single cell. So the question is what kind of cells are you regenerating? And you regenerate healthier, younger cells when you are in a state called a parasympathetic, dominant state, that's when you're sleeping.
Speaker 2:When you sleep, when you have restful sleep, your body is flushing out the toxins from your brain. It's called your glymphatic system. They're flushing it out and your body is rebuilding new cells and getting rid of the old and damaged cells. All of that's occurring mainly when you sleep. So a critically important question is when you wake up in the morning, do you feel refreshed? If you don't, then the first thing you do according to a couple of our scientists, the first thing you do you don't, then the first thing you do, according to a couple of our scientists, the first thing you do you don't focus on anything else. You just focus on building regenerative sleep habits. So maybe for a month you're going to learn. Okay, what works for me when I feel refreshed, when I wake up in the morning. For me personally, when I'm keyed up and if I think I'm going to have a tough time getting to sleep, if I take the time to do this, it always works. It's never not worked. What do I do? I take a hot bath with Epsom salts. You put Epsom salt in the bath because the magnesium and the Epsom salts gets in your muscles, your muscles relax, your body gets heavy, you go to sleep and you just relax and you get deeper sleep. And there are many habits that we'll show you in the series of how do you build restful, regenerative sleep habits Critically, critically important. And it's not the same for everybody, and what we all have to learn is that we're unique. You know what works for this person. Big guns may help a little bit for the next person, but that one, this really works really well and for the first person it didn't help me so much. You find what works for you.
Speaker 2:Our goal is to give you the most effective tools to use and we're not selling anything. This is all free for you, but we want to give you guidelines and we recommend you go back to your health coach, your doctor, your nutritionist and ask them questions. Hi, you know, I heard that. You know my daughter's got asthma and the inhaler helps so much. Thank you so much that you know my daughter's got asthma and the inhaler helps so much. Thank you so much. But I've heard that sometimes asthma can be fueled or can be made worse because there's toxins in the air in my house. My house smells clean to me, but could I have mold in my house? How do we check? How do we check for that? In other words, I want to empower people to be asking questions of identifying the source of your inflammation. That's the goal here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love that you said sleep, because my health and fitness program that I created is called early morning habit and it's all about establishing a holistic self-care routine in the morning, but we start with the night before, which is sleep, because ultimately it is the foundation of health. And so, you know, I love, I love, um, the collaboration and the synergy there that, yes, you guys, sleep is so important. You've heard me say it before. From a diet standpoint, I'm just curious so you're getting rid of gluten? What specifically? If you could name practically a couple of things that we should be eating more of?
Speaker 1:which there's obvious vegetables, sure, right, Like things that we all know. But in your expertise, are there certain things that our gut would be a lot happier if we're fueling more of this?
Speaker 2:May I give you a study first?
Speaker 1:Yes, please.
Speaker 2:And then answer the questions. So just keep me on call here to answer the question. Yes, in the Journal of the American Medical Association they published a paper in 2019. And the editors of the journal said this is an elegant study using sophisticated biomarkers to demonstrate their point. Now, you know very well the editors of the Journal of the American Medical Association don't say that very often. You know that's like the stamp of approval. You don't see that in that journal very often, so I knew this was an important article. They looked at couples going to assisted fertility centers and, as you know, very stressful time for people, tens of thousands of dollars not covered by insurance. I mean, couples want to start a family. It's a beautiful thing, it's like nothing else. There's magic to that. And they ruled out the known factors that influence success or failure, like smoking, alcohol consumption, exercise no exercise socioeconomic class race. They ruled all that out and they looked at one thing and one thing only how many servings of fruits and vegetables is the woman eating a day?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they put them into fourths the lowest number of servings per day, the next, the third and the highest number of servings per day. The results were shocking those women in the highest number of servings per day of fruits and vegetables, compared to the women in the lowest number of servings per day of fruits and vegetables. Those in the highest category had an 18% less likelihood of successful implantation and if they did get pregnant, they had 26% less likelihood of a live birth. More miscarriage wait, wait, what, what? The more fruits and vegetables you eat, the worse the outcome. Yes, wait, what? And the editors of the Journal, the American Medical Association, said this is an elegant study using sophisticated biomarkers to demonstrate that you can't argue with the study. It came from Harvard. It's statistics up the wazoo which I don't understand, those statistics at all. But you can't argue with the study.
Speaker 2:Now there was a group of women in the study that were eating organic. In that group, the results were the exact opposite complete opposite. And women. Opposite, complete opposite. And women. Here's the good news Women were put in the category of organic if they were eating three servings per week of organic fruits and vegetables.
Speaker 2:Not three servings a day, just three times a week, at twice a week, it didn't affect the results At three times a week. They was the exact opposite results, and I think this is my opinion. This wasn't addressed in the study. I think why it only took three times a week was because you know if you're eating organic whenever you can. You've got organic shampoo in your bathroom, you know. You've got organic soap in the kitchen. You're trying, you're doing the little things that make a difference.
Speaker 2:This is a very empowering study because it demonstrates just a little bit of effort in the right direction gets you big results 18% less likelihood of successful implantation of the artificial insemination and 26% less likelihood of a live birth for those that did get pregnant. If you eat conventional fruits and vegetables, it's the insecticides, the pesticides, the fungicides, rodenticides, antibiotics, glyphosate that's in your carrots and tomatoes and cucumbers and raspberries and bananas. When you eat out at a regular restaurant, you have a nice big salad, yeah, but it's all conventional. In a woman's body over a lifetime is so high that eating more fruits and vegetables creates just that much more inflammation that they're unsuccessful unsuccessful in getting pregnant.
Speaker 1:Did you say I missed this in the beginning that um BMI was accounted for?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Like was that? Yes, so these were women of of relatively equivalent BMI.
Speaker 2:Otherwise, Like I'm, already thinking out other factors. Yeah, all of them, you know, are they?
Speaker 1:overeating too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that many servings. They ruled out in an elegant way all of those known respects.
Speaker 1:I see what you're saying yeah, yeah it was conventional fruits and vegetables.
Speaker 2:So now, when you ask me, now when you ask me, what do?
Speaker 2:we eat. What do we eat? Everybody has seen the pyramid before right and a pyramid came out. If you Google it, you can download the article. The Mediterranean gluten-free diet came out two years ago by the Italians and they have the pyramid At the bottom of the pyramid, at the very bottom, meaning the most emphasis needs to go on this water hydration. We are all so toxic. We all have so many accumulated chemicals in our bodies now. We all have so many accumulated chemicals in our bodies. Now You've got to flush them out.
Speaker 2:You've got to open up the highway. You know, if you're driving between two major cities, it's two-lane superhighway and the other direction two-lane superhighway as you get closer to the city. Now it's three lanes and four lanes and cars are merging and you're still doing 70 miles an hour. But you're coming into the city but wait, there's some construction up ahead and the left lane is blocked off. You have to merge and then you have. Now you're down to two lanes again, but there's four lanes of traffic. That means you're going 20 miles an hour instead of 70. You're backed up.
Speaker 2:That's constipation and that's why we have to hydrate. We have to allow our mechanisms for detoxing to flush out the chemicals we've accumulated. I'll give you one more study here on this Chicago 2016,. 346 pregnant women in the eighth month of pregnancy. They did urine analysis for phthalates. Those are the chemicals used to mold plastic. They're called endocrine disruptors because they disrupt how your hormones work and they put the amount of phthalates in urine for these pregnant women into quartiles the lowest, the next, the third and the highest.
Speaker 2:They then followed the offspring of those pregnancies for seven years. When the children turned seven years old, they did Wechsler IQ tests on them the official IQ test. Every child and this is strange, it was every child every child whose mother was in the highest category of phthalates and urine in pregnancy compared to the children of the mothers in the lowest category. Every child in the highest category. Their IQ at seven years old was seven points lower than these kids whose moms were in the lowest category 6.7 to 7.4 points lower. That doesn't mean anything to anyone. Until you understand. A one-point difference in IQ is noticeable. A seven-point difference is a difference between a child working really hard getting straight A's in school and a child working really hard getting straight C's. This child doesn't have a chance in hell of ever excelling to their genetic potential. Now just go to Google and type in phthalates and neurogenesis. Here come the studies. The more phthalates, the more inhibition of brain cell growth and that's the result. So we have generations of women now. That's why I'm so honored to be on your show, because these are your tribe, these are your people. Right? You guys need to detox because you don't know that.
Speaker 2:The phthalates in nail polish that's what hardens the nail polish. They're in your bloodstream in four minutes. The phthalates in plastic containers you store leftover food in a plastic container in the refrigerator. The next day the chicken's got phthalates on it. From the container it leaches out of the plastic. You can't get a coffee cup at the coffee shop and put the lid on it and drink the coffee, because the hot liquid hits the underside of the lid, tapers down into the opening full of phthalates, bisphenol A, and this stuff accumulates in your body and you get toxic. And when you get toxic enough eating fruits and vegetables, you have miscarriages. You have 26% increased risk of miscarriages and your baby if you do have a pregnancy a healthy pregnancy, hopefully, and healthy delivery your baby at seven years old. Their IQ is seven points lower because their brain never developed.
Speaker 2:It's like wake up, wake up, world Excuse me for being intense, but you guys need to wake up.
Speaker 1:I wish you were a little more passionate about it. I mean, you guys, am I right? I'm just kidding, I love it. I love how knowledgeable and passionate you are.
Speaker 1:But I think too, like one of my takeaways, you know, for all the women listening, what I hear and this resonates with us on so many levels is what we're really fighting is we live in a culture of excess, you know, you just think once upon a time people weren't necessarily exposed to the amount of toxins for a variety of reasons, but because of the advancement in a lot of technology, I just think we're almost even within our homes. We're just inundated with excess. How many of us have four shampoo bottles sitting in our? So it's just the concept of scaling back to the basics. Not that you live in the woods with absolutely no modern amenities, because we can't do that, but to your point, when you pull it all back, what I hear is there's something to be said about just simply saying yes to less in all things. We don't need as much food. We don't need, you know, 5 million different boxes of crackers like. Buy the one, organic, gluten-free, whatever box, or just be content with.
Speaker 2:Well, you know that may that may be true for some people, but you need to get organic, valet free nail polish. I mean, you've got. You've got beautiful nails.
Speaker 1:Or don't put the nails on. Yeah, I definitely have. Yes, I definitely have nail polish on. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know, and lipstick I mean, the average woman does 140-some chemicals on her skin before she leaves the house in the morning.
Speaker 1:That's the average and that's stuff with chemicals.
Speaker 2:We've taken for granted that our government would protect us, and we are not. We are not In the European Union. There's over 10,000 chemicals that are completely forbidden in any products to ever come into the country. In where European Union.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, okay, and the United.
Speaker 2:States is 12.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that speaks to my point. That speaks to my point. I think that I'm trying to make that we live in a culture of excess and the reason that we're not being protected is because excess sells.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because we want all the latest and greatest. So what I didn't say, well, that you just said, much better in even that data is just looking at and being aware of that sense of excess that we live with and simplifying and cleaning up, like you're saying, cleaning up what we're exposing ourselves.
Speaker 2:I agree with the excess and, but there's there's a caveat. You can have as many types of nail polish as you want, they just need to be phthalate free.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I interviewed Fran Drescher the nanny saying yeah, I interviewed Fran Drescher the nanny and that was such a wonderful interview. And she looks in the camera and she says go to your medicine cabinet. Why do they call it a medicine cabinet? She starts doing her lap. You know that Bronx lap of hers. She said look at the toothpaste. Read the warning do not swallow. If swallowed, call National Poison Control Center. Why would you ever put that in your children's mouth? Right, you just need to learn how we are being poisoned. Excuse me, but we are being poisoned and to reduce your exposure, the flame retardant chemicals on your sheets and on your blankets that outgas into the air. After 50 washings they still outgas minute amounts of chemicals. They're allowed because of the Toxic Substance Control Act, which was a legislation passed regulating chemicals in our environment, says you have to demonstrate that the amount of chemical you're exposed to in a 24-hour period is toxic to humans.
Speaker 2:It's not the amount of phthalates on your beautiful red nail polish that leach into your bloodstream is not toxic to humans, but it's accumulative in your body, right, right. So give me a five-year-old girl that paints her 10 little fingers and 10 little toes once a week for 25 years Now she's 30 years old, can't get pregnant, goes to an assisted fertility center, spends $30,000 wanting to be healthy, eating all the fruits and vegetables that she can because she wants to be healthy, eating all the fruits and vegetables that she can because she wants to be healthy. But she's accumulated so many toxins that the poisons in the fruits and vegetables is enough to take her over the edge and she has miscarriages.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, I hear what you're saying yeah.
Speaker 1:That cumulative effect we have to be aware of. Yeah, that's right, that's absolutely right?
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't think, I don't think you need hardship, I don't think you have to let go of the variety of crackers. You just have to have new screening tools as to what to allow into your home for you and your family, and that's what the inflammation equation is about. It's not just crying wolf, it's the scientists telling us what we can do.
Speaker 1:Yes, amen.
Speaker 2:How do you minimize this?
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's you know. That's the advantage. You guys Check out this theinflammationequationcom. As always, we will have the links in the show notes and I love that you ended with that, because I think that's the piece that we want everybody to hear is we don't want hardship because there is a certain we have to live life, but there needs to be that screening tool, that there is awareness, and then that there's tools on top of the screening tool to be able to create change in a way that is sustainable, and then you're not debilitated by the overwhelm that you're not possibly going to do it right. So we want to, we want to pull that back. So take a deep breath. Don't breathe in your nail polish, maybe. Just take a deep breath and check out theinflammationequationcom. I could sit and talk to you for hours I think we've already gone over his allotted hour because he's generous and passionate, but it was such a blessing to have you and I pray God's blessing over your work, your home, your family, all that you're doing. It was an honor having you here.
Speaker 2:Oh, anna, thank you so much. A real pleasure to be with you too, and for you and all of your followers, godspeed on your health journey.