imPERFECTly emPOWERed®

How To Navigate a Spouse’s Healing From Childhood Trauma With Author and Speaker Danielle Sebastian

August 06, 2024 • Ahna Fulmer • Season 3

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ABOUT THIS EPISODE:

TRIGGER WARNING: Child Abuse 


Danielle Sebastian joins us to share her deeply personal journey of being married to a childhood trauma survivor. Ever wonder how hidden abuse can manifest in relationships? Danielle pulls back the curtain on her seemingly perfect marriage, revealing the early signs of controlling behavior in her husband that eventually escalated into withdrawal and severe conflict. She offers essential insights for recognizing trauma-related symptoms in a spouse, equipping listeners with the tools needed for healing and resilience in their own relationships.


JUMP RIGHT TO IT:

13:42 Understanding Trauma and Recovery Process

21:47 Building Transparent Relationships Through Trauma

26:18 Navigating Trauma With Open Communication

30:52 Care Framework for Trauma Healing

36:22 Survivor's Playbook for Trauma Healing



CONNECT WITH DANIELLE:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniellesebastian_wifecare/    

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@daniellesebastian_wifecare/videos Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/daniellesebastian.wifecare 

Website: www.daniellesebastian.com

A SURVIVOR'S PLAYBOOK FOR WIVES

Everything you need to know, do and say to manage the emotional minefield, find balance, and regain your self-worth and happiness while navigating partners' childhood trauma.

Buy the book: https://amzn.to/3QNQPCZ 

Revitalize your faith and fitness with a morning routine that does not sacrifice your sleep and does start each day with God's Word and a workout. Join the community today at www.earlymorninghabit.com 


Contact The Show!

Website: http://www.ahnafulmer.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@imperfectlyempoweredpodcast
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ahnafulmer/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ahnadfulmer

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Imperfectly Empowered podcast. I'm your host, anna Fulmer. Today we have Danielle Sebastian on the show. Danielle is a bestselling author and speaker and she shares her inspiring story of resilience and hope as she details her journey as a wife, overcoming the complex challenges of being married to someone who survived childhood trauma challenges of being married to someone who survived childhood trauma here to share her expert advice on navigating a spouse's healing from child abuse. Welcome author and speaker, danielle Sebastian. Hi, Good morning. Good morning, it's so nice to meet you.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, you got the book oh, that's so exciting. Yay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks for being on the show. You have such a wonderful story and, yeah, the service that you're offering people is lovely and, I'm sure, very needed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah indeed Indeed. So I am just so thankful for you, for you know letting me get my story out. I'm really excited yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

I. Um, I love pressing the rewind button because obviously we see we have a book here. It's fantastic, it's called resilient wives. But I would love to press rewind and just hear the story that got you to where you are today.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. It's actually today is my anniversary, so 14 years of marriage, wow, congratulations.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, I put that together.

Speaker 2:

I'm like, oh yeah. So today, 14 years ago, I married my dream guy on a beach in Kauai and he had a stepdaughter, so we had a little three year old who was, we were joining families and she was the flower girl and it was absolutely, you know, a beautiful moment and you know he, he was really. You know everything. You know he was a great father and just everything I've been looking for.

Speaker 2:

And it wasn't long after we were married that I started to notice some things that that just didn't make sense. There was a lot of need to control the environment. That was causing a lot of conflict in the relationship. So things like wanting to have the blinds set at certain certain lengths, how long I took showers, just a lot of control things of the environment in particular and control of the relationship. That just didn't make sense and it was causing a lot of conflict. And then there started to be quite a few lashing out experiences for things that were very normal, you know, normal things to ask like, hey, can you help out with the dishes. That would lead to really strong responses of almost, like I was personally attacking him, responses of almost like I was personally attacking him.

Speaker 2:

Right, and it was. It was just it was causing a lot of issues. And then I had my son, and that's when things really started to escalate and those behaviors became almost unbearable for me. And then that's when my husband started to withdraw, and that means going to the basement four days at a time, locking himself in there, unable to even engage with the family and my kids. And that's when, you know, we had a really tragic incident that led me to be like I don't think I can do this anymore. And it was only at that moment that my husband was able to reveal to anyone, for the first time ever, a terrible history of childhood abuse at the hands of the church.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, it was only as you. As you talk about that, I just want to pause a second. As you talk about that, I just want to pause a second.

Speaker 1:

I think even just like the signs of abuse as an adult meaning you mentioned some of the stuff that you said could almost be like some of us who are just OCD type A, like we want the blinds at this, because if one's up and the other two are down like that's me, 100% I want them at the same level I literally get on my husband for being in the shower for too long.

Speaker 1:

So some of some of what I'm saying I guess like could be OCD. But help us kind of clarify because, like you're saying, I think there's even some adults who you've compartmentalized your pain so much that they honestly don't even acknowledge in their own hearts and minds the abuse that happened. So maybe it's even in their own lives that they need to pause and recognize some of these symptoms, let alone that in their spouse. So I'm just curious if you could, you know, specify even more like what would be some signs and symptoms that in your time working with couples that might be a little bit more specific to trauma related controlling if that makes sense, it does.

Speaker 2:

It totally makes sense because, you're absolutely right, a lot of these things are, you know, just in idiosyncrasies of just normal relationships, right? So but how can you tell if it's it could be something deeper, and I have a whole list of some very common signs. And usually the more you have of the signs and the more severe they are to speaking to your, to your point about, the more it's affecting the relationship and the more it just doesn't make sense, the more chance there is. So number one is they don't want to talk about their childhood, right? So that is a very telltale sign, saying things like, oh, my childhood was fine, or I don't remember that much about being a kid, or yeah, you know, I just it's just, things were very normal. So that is a telltale sign If they really don't want to get deep into their childhood, right, that makes sense.

Speaker 2:

Then the control. The control is what survivors used to survive their childhood. They were completely out of control of their situation, waiting for the bad things to happen to them, and so they develop a need to control their environment, control the relationship as a mechanism to keep themselves safe, and so it's different from them wanting to control you, that it's about them wanting to feel safe. So that's a little bit of a nuance to the control. If you really start to look at it, that's why that control comes out, and that would be the difference there between somebody who's a narcissist versus had something terrible happen to them.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and then this need to push people away and that comes out in these, when they lash out right Because they were, are just hyper alert to anybody, who, anything that would seem like they're going to get hurt. So when they feel like they're going to get hurt, just by asking, you know, by us saying you're, you're not a good father because you won't put the dishes away, that's what they're hearing in their brain. They lashed out and that's to push you away, to push that, that fear, that person that they see as dangerous, away. So that's how I kind of described that. And then the withdrawal is to your point. It is not about just needing to take a break after a fight and come back to it. This is a dissociative withdrawal, meaning they're withdrawing from themselves, they're withdrawing from you, they're withdrawing from the world, and you can imagine that to survive their childhood they dissociated, and so that is a coping mechanism that they use when things get painful, when things get, when there's conflict.

Speaker 1:

Give us examples of dissociative withdrawal, because it is different. So I worked in emergency medicine for 10 years and this is something that we saw. There was a lot of underlying abuse for a lot of the drug addicts or a lot of the psych disorders that we saw. But explain for people what that level of withdrawal might actually look like or play out as.

Speaker 2:

I describe it as it's like a flip has been switched where it's off. It's in the off position and no matter what you do you could cry, you could get angry, you can yell, anything you do it's that you're hitting a brick wall and nothing is going to get by it until that, until that person is ready. So it really is like a flip of a switch, dissociation, and one of the things that I found out it's very hurtful in a relationship to have that brick wall thrown at you all the time. But it's also not just to keep themselves saved, but sometimes they do it because they're so worried about the responses they're going to give that it's actually safer for you.

Speaker 2:

Right For them to dissociate. Understand why it's happening and separate yourself from these responses. Then you can take a healthier perspective and deal with it better.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, which, to your point, is, you have to be aware of these realities, even either one not being normal, or two some of the underlying triggers for them.

Speaker 1:

So that's really tough if the person who has been abused has not been able to acknowledge it themselves in the first place. So I'm also curious and you might be getting to this from your husband's perspective, which also, let's just take it what is his name? Adam? Let's just take a second to acknowledge Adam and thank him, because really, like this, couldn't even this conversation couldn't even be happening if Adam wasn't willing to do the really really hard work. So, adam, we thank you so much. And for those of you also that are listening and this is your story, um, yeah, you're brave, more so than many of us can ever imagine. So, adam, we just thank you right now for your willingness to even let us be here and talk about this, talk about letting go of control. Right, that's when you know you've healed or you are in the process of healing, when you're able to let other people talk about your story and learn from it.

Speaker 2:

So kudos and thank you A hundred percent. Amazing work done by him and all of the people that helped him heal.

Speaker 1:

Yes, amen. But I'm curious to go back to that time. What would he say might have helped him acknowledge his own abuse sooner? Was there anything that he looked? You know, hindsight vision is 2020. So they say, you know, when he looks back, were there certain things that had somebody stepped in at this point, or could he have acknowledged or recognized something sooner? Or could he have acknowledged or recognized something sooner? Does he ever talk about things that he would encourage somebody else to help kind of end their suffering sooner?

Speaker 2:

What would? What would he say to that? Well, he, he doesn't really know Right what, but I I can tell you that there were a lot of people that kept what was going on a secret, said nothing when it was happening and knew the signs in Adam, but never did anything and never reached out to him. And so if that's a lesson to, that's a lesson to all of us, that if something doesn't seem right and you know something is suspicious, it's up to us to say something and to try and hit it head on, because if one person would have done that for Adam, this whole situation might be different today is.

Speaker 1:

you know, I will fully acknowledge the ignorance of this statement because I am not aware of any of my loved ones having experienced anything like this. So for me it's so hard to fathom if I know that someone that I love is being abused like this, not bringing it to light. Some of that's also my personality. But what are some of the underlying issues and emotions being experienced? Because I will also throw out there maybe somebody is listening who's in this position. What is this person struggling with? Because I frankly can't comprehend it. I just can't comprehend not bringing it to light. And again, I worked in the ER for 10 years so I've also seen horrible things across the entire age spectrum. So what is that person thinking through? Are they also burying it, almost like it doesn't actually exist, like how do we help that?

Speaker 2:

person be brave. Well, one thing in particular is that these perpetrators are they are masters Masters at at grooming, and they're grooming those around this. Yeah, this abuse person. And so we need to get, we need to get more aware of. You know, when there is someone who takes an active, an adult who takes an active interest in your child, that seems like, oh, I wonder why he or she is taking such an active interest in my child. He's not. You know, they're not related. We need to be very aware of that and we need to be very careful. The church was also masters of putting priests in positions of where they should not be. These boys were helping in the rectory, which is where the priests sleep. They pulled them out of school to do so. So I think that a lot of it is just not being aware and also that these perpetrators are masters at manipulating the situation. But definitely there were signs along the way that should have been red flags.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and what would a couple of those signs be? Because then when we talk about family, it's a whole nother level of challenge if it's somebody within your family who is doing the abuse. And what are some of those signs that one would need to be looking for, regardless of whether it's in the family or not?

Speaker 2:

These kids have a lot of shame and a lot of guilt and they're going to be very withdrawn and they're going to push people away Anytime. Kids are, have behaviors that don't make sense. They're acting out, they're doing destructive things to themselves, things that you're just saying. Why would they do that? There may be something going on that they're trying to hide from. There were things as obvious for my husband as he not wanting to have the closet doors on his closet, never having the door closed yeah, so things like that. And then I think that a lot of the behavioral things like I said, just think of the shame and the guilt and the need to push people away is a really good telltale sign.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I will also throw in there again, as an ER provider, one of the telltale signs. You do kind of create a sixth sense almost when you work in the ER. But for us, for those of you listening and watching who have experience with kids or work with kids interestingly it's actually when a kid would not cry so like their response was disproportionate to the injury that we were seeing them for, was always a red flag to me. The kid that was like kicking, screaming and over the top, quote unquote dramatic. I was not concerned about. It was the one who was really quiet and not responding appropriately, and it's usually fear-based because they've been trained to not respond or else they might get more pain. So I also throw that out there as something, and in some cases.

Speaker 2:

I think they seek that pain.

Speaker 1:

Yes, sure yeah, especially as they get older, I think. As they get older, I think, that that is a mechanism.

Speaker 2:

That's a great point. Yes, yeah, fascinating, because you know, my husband's body is a disaster because he was risky. That was one of those things that he was almost in a way. If I die this way, at least I went out as a hero. So taking physical risks is is is definitely something.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I also, you know, I've heard patients say too that they just want to feel something. So some of it's self-inflicted for punishment, but then some of it and I can understand this.

Speaker 1:

I mean just, you know, at a very basic level, it's like when you are traumatized or the emotions are so deep, you want to flip them off for so long because it hurts too much, but then you have this weird inverse reaction where it's like you're turned off but you also want to feel something, but then self-inflicting harm is also something you can control to a degree, and so it's like feeling, but at your own, uh, yes, trying not to feel that pain.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Feel the physical pain.

Speaker 1:

Yes, Something else. Yeah, oh, heavy, heavy stuff. I like want to cry every single time I think about this. But you know, these conversations need to happen because there are people living with this pain all of the time, and that might be you listening, it might be a loved one that you know, um, so, yeah, these conversations need to happen. What so? I interrupted your story to pause on on this point. But you know, you, your husband's finally able to acknowledge to himself, to you, this pain that has happened. And then what happens next? What are the next steps for you guys?

Speaker 2:

So someone who doesn't know that much about you know trauma and trauma healing. I was under the understanding oh right, we found this thing. You know that I couldn't put my finger on. We're just going to work really hard, we'll get some counseling for a year or two and then we're going to be golden.

Speaker 2:

I found out that was very naive and that is not how trauma recovery works and it usually things get worse, actually when the trauma is acknowledged, before they get better. And I also realized that there is a startling lack of resources for spouses who are supporting someone who has had an abusive past. And I couldn't find anything. I found little articles, you know, online. They were very superficial. So we put together a team of support.

Speaker 2:

We had a team and we were able to work through it and about eight years of working on it and trying new things, I realized I came to this point. I think I think we made it, I think we have the tools to deal with this and that at that point I was like I need to be that, that person that puts these resources out there, all this research, I've done all the things. I've tried, put it all in one place and create this community to stop the silence of these spouses that are feeling bad about saying that they're struggling when their partner is in such pain. It's just a different situation that normal techniques don't work with, and we need to work together to make sure that we can do a better job in our relationships.

Speaker 1:

How did you implement some of these strategies with your kids, because what we haven't touched on yet is the kids of these marriages. Is there any tips that you can give in also helping your children walk through? And it's so tough because there's, I'm sure, age-appropriate conversations that need to happen. But what advice would you give to that woman who is also trying to navigate, explaining trauma or helping her child kind of wrestle with some of these tensions that they surely feel in the home but they're just not sure what to do with it?

Speaker 2:

That is such a good point, and it does change depending on the age, of course.

Speaker 2:

So when we were in the midst of this terrible chaos, I had a toddler, so three, and then Brinley was about five or six, our stepdaughter, and we realized that, just like the spouse feels blamed and feels like they're doing all this wrong stuff, so do your kids, and so we realized pretty early on in the healing process that we needed to sit them down and give them some sort of information and really reiterate again and again that none of this is their fault, this is not your fault.

Speaker 2:

We are working on it. And we did say we did tell them that there are really bad people out in the world that do really bad things, and there were some people that did really bad things to your dad, and he is working on acknowledging that, how that affected him, as well as trying to make those people pay for what they did. So that was the wording we use with our little kids. The toddler probably doesn't didn't acknowledge much of that, the six-year-old probably did, and then we did that periodically throughout, especially when things would get would get really chaotic, but constantly telling them it's not your fault, you know that's the key.

Speaker 2:

That's the key. And then, as they get older, then you can do a lot more of okay. The reason that your daddy was responding that way is because he was triggered from what happened to him in the past.

Speaker 1:

So we're very honest, trying to educate our kids, yeah, and I love that, and I think the honesty piece, it's that level of transparency that is so crucial across the board and obviously the age appropriate, and it's not like every single person needs to know every single detail. But, like you said, when you're creating that culture of transparency in your home, which again started with your husband being willing to take that step, it really does kind of strip some of the power away from the shame and the guilt. And so, you know, what I'm hearing is that's almost like step number one is just in anything being transparent about what we feel is a shortcoming, like let's just own it, literally the reason for the name of the podcast. You know, it is in that embracing of our imperfection and our mistakes that we truly empower transformation and a life of freedom and joy. And so his story is such a beautiful, beautiful example, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

It absolutely released the power that, that secret, that that shame that that guilt had it, released it into the world and took it off his shoulders.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the irony is the story that we hear over and over again. You guys those of you listening and watching who are already struggling with that one thing, and you're thinking like I cannot tell somebody this, I can't do it. Here's what's happening. Whether you realize it or not, you're actually isolating yourself. You're creating more loneliness, more devastation in your life. You might just be surprised how people actually react to what you feel like is an impossible thing to bring to light. I hope that you are shocked by the level of compassion that you do find when you bring it to light, because that, ultimately, it just keeps you alone.

Speaker 2:

That was one of the things that I did want people to know that may be out there with that. A terrible secret is that your, your spouse, your partner, we can handle it. Whatever happened to you, we can handle it. Don't worry about us. It's holding the whole relationship back by keeping that secret and we can handle it and you don't need to handle it alone.

Speaker 1:

Say that one more time, just say it one more time.

Speaker 2:

We can handle the truth. You don't have to do this alone. For the first time ever, just reach out and let what needs to happen happen.

Speaker 1:

Amen. In a minute we're going to dive into Danielle's expert advice on how to navigate a spouse's healing from childhood trauma. We're going to talk about this incredible framework that she's created, but first, nothing like a pivot like this. We're going to play a round of would you rather, let's do that that's what we do here.

Speaker 1:

We cry and then we laugh on the same, on the same hour. Okay, would you rather decorate or do a craft? You have an afternoon. Okay, you'd rather decorate or do a craft. You have an afternoon. Okay, you'd rather decorate.

Speaker 2:

Is there a season that you're like? I'm so excited to decorate?

Speaker 1:

Ooh, we love Halloween. They're the Halloweeners. Some people are like it's so funny, you're like, you like your own culture. There's this subculture of people who, just my brother, loves decorating for Halloween. It's like their thing.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and our neighborhood is really fun and so we kind of try and outdo each other with the. So that's pretty, I love that. Obviously my daughter loves Christmas, Christmas decorating.

Speaker 1:

So we love that. That's so fun. This is where, like my practical, I'm like I don't for one night, I have like no decorating for Halloween because I'm so overly efficient with my life.

Speaker 2:

I get it. Yes, I love Halloween.

Speaker 1:

I'm like why would I spend all the time Anyway? So kudos to you guys who are just living. It's one night, live it up. Yes, yes, would you rather coffee or tea?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, would you rather coffee or tea. Oh, I'm coffee.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent, yeah, yeah. What do you put creamer in it Like? Do you have your ideal cup of?

Speaker 2:

Joe, oh yes, half and half, with cinnamon on top, ooh.

Speaker 1:

Delicious Two cups. You have a favorite um coffee house Like this is your ideal cup of coffee. Like to buy from somewhere.

Speaker 2:

I do love the Americano, you know, with a lot of cream. I'm like extra, extra and then on top. But I do love a great mocha too. Yeah, With dark chocolate.

Speaker 1:

I'm drooling. I'm actually drinking tea right now, but I'm a coffee lover inside and out. Would you rather cake or pie? Oh cake, 100%.

Speaker 2:

Favorite cake. I'm not a big pie fan, yeah.

Speaker 1:

This is always what we hear Always. It's crazy. It's such a fascinating. People are like cake. It's really one or the other. They definitely prefer one or the other.

Speaker 2:

There's rarely a.

Speaker 1:

Hmm, let me think about it. Yes, a hundred percent cake.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what's your favorite cake? I used to just wouldn't have any cake unless it was chocolate. My whole life, until now I'm. I'm a white chalk, I'm a white white cake. Oh, a white, yeah, with white frosting.

Speaker 1:

All of a sudden, it's totally changed for me.

Speaker 2:

I mean, her life has been transformed in so many ways, including cake, yeah, but now that's my go-to. Now I just want white cake with white frosting.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. I love that. Um, okay, would you rather a personal yacht or a private jet?

Speaker 2:

That's a tough one. I love the idea of both, but I would go with the private jet. I do like to travel.

Speaker 1:

And where's your family going? You're taking your private jet expenses, don't matter where you guys headed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's interesting because my kids are old, so they're 12 and 16 now, so very different. So really I think that opens up the world, you know, for us, and so I would probably take them internationally. I love the idea of Italy or Greece for them.

Speaker 1:

I think they would appreciate the history now. Yeah, yeah, well, I'm coming, I'm coming with you.

Speaker 2:

Let's go.

Speaker 1:

Yes, you have this great quote in the book. It says recovery is a process, not a journey with an end result. I love this framework because, as we're about to talk about literally your framework, but the foundation of it being this concept, I think it's such an important one because we live in a culture of hurry up and so we just have a hard time being patient for anything, whether it be our food or our relationships or anything. So I love this concept that it's a process. It's not going to be a quick fix, but you are providing a framework to hopefully help someone get there a little faster than somebody who does not have it. So you created this wife care framework. Tell us a little bit about that, and you talk about it in the book. You guys, I've not talked about the book enough because we're so busy talking. I just threw it on the floor, but she talks about all of this, too, in the book. So it's a fantastic that and more, but tell us about the wife care framework.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So essentially, what I found was I looked back and I'm like how did I end up getting through this? What would I tell someone who was in that same situation that I was exhausted at their wit's end. What would I say? You need to do this first, this next, this next in order to get there. And what I found which is so cool about this is that I can get you those tools faster than I ever did.

Speaker 2:

But guess what? The trauma triggers never go away. With a lot of work and healing, they can start to understand their triggers better and respond to them better. But guess what? You're going to get a teenager eventually along the way, or a loss in the family, and you're going to have a whole new set of triggers that come up. And so the idea of my program is really to give you the tools that will take you in the long haul. That quote right, it's not an end game. It's having all of these techniques and tools and your support system for the long haul so that when you do start to have issues again or things start to bubble up, you can tap into that and you know what to do this time.

Speaker 1:

So that's almost like changing the narrative, that it's almost like managing a chronic disease where there's not a cure, but you can manage it so that you can still thrive.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that perfectly said. That is exactly it. And so the WIFE care. The C stands for comprehending childhood trauma. So you have to become an expert in understanding how the trauma survivor's brain works and identifying the triggers and the responses that are occurring in your relationship, and then you need to separate yourself from them. So the A really means accessing the support that you need.

Speaker 2:

This is not something you can put a bandaid on and it will be fixed. You will need help. You don't have the as a wife. You cannot be the counselor for your husband. You cannot do this on your own. You are going to be exhausted with the chaos, so you need a support team. And then the R stands for resilience building through self-care. So the more tired and the more exhausted and burned out you are, the more reactive you are to the triggers, and so you want to take care of yourself so that you can actually use the techniques and tools that I'm going to teach you with the E, which is establishing healthier patterns in your relationship. So that is the care process, and, done in that order, you can make a huge difference. These small steps make big results.

Speaker 1:

I love that you mentioned the E is establishing processes to help heal the relationship is, I think, what I heard you say.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

And you have a community. So if someone's listening and also you guys, save this episode, share this episode. This is one of those things where this is meant to be a resource in that arsenal. This is a tool for you to tuck away. Maybe you're in a life group or something at your church and you're meeting somebody who has this type of underlying. Just save this episode for later so that you have this arsenal or have this tool in your tool belt, if you will, to be able to share. But tell us how you help people, so you're teaching them in this program. Is it like a six week program? Is it a community Like what is the model that you're helping women with?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I have several things. First of all, I have the book, and then I also have a survivor's playbook and that is like the get started now version of my program. So I have that on my website and then I do. I have a 12 week program where I work individually with wives on these techniques, building the support team and meeting with them and really trying things, scripting things out with them as to what to say when the triggers occur. It's just an amazing program of accountability.

Speaker 1:

And I'm reading. So we'll make sure all these links, of course, are included in the show notes and the book is the first place that you want to start. This is an easy, non-invasive way of taking that first step. It's called Resilient Wives and that will, of course, be linked in the show notes and she talks about it's called a survivor's playbook for wives Everything you need to know, do and say to manage the emotional minefield, find balance and regain self-worth and happiness while navigating your partner's childhood trauma.

Speaker 1:

Her website is daniellesebastiancom. She's got incredible freebies. One is Spotting the Signs. It's a download, so literally what we talked about. If you're like, oh my gosh, I can't remember all that, download this Again. This is stuff for you to share and the book, again, is such a great place to start. We want to equip you guys and I know for many of you it's already a really scary step Book. So easy. It's the first step moving forward. People aren't going to even know that you're trying to grow and heal in this way. So the book is a great way to start and then hopefully it'll give you if this podcast hasn't already a little bit more of that sense of I can do this a little bit more of that sense of I can do this, I'm not alone, and empower you the resources to help someone else. Danielle, where else can people find you and follow you?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I am on Instagram and Facebook as well and I have a blog on my website where you can get some personal techniques from me. So all those places, I really appreciate you putting all those out because I I agree with you. I want people to share this because a lot of us know someone who's struggling.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I just I pray God's blessing over your heart, your home. Adam, thank you again for your bravery. Truly, you are real life superhero and it was such an honor to have you here. Thank you so much.

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Ahna Fulmer

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