In 2007, Tommy Soulati Shepard and Kaitlin McGaw formed Alphabet Rockers to make music that makes change. This episode discusses how they met, the wide variety of their performing backgrounds and how they, 3 professional children artists and a host of other artist collaborators use hip hop to put a child's experience at the heart of its message.
The Alphabet Rockers mission is to create music that disrupts racism, educates and fills children and adults with messages of hope and joy. Tommy and Kaitlin talk about how a parent's role is so important in nurturing a child's growth and confidence. Their work encourages both children and adults to reflect on their own experiences, actions, non-actions and to ponder the role of silence.
More about Agile Vocalist, including artist biographies, liner notes and additional visual material for every episode can be found on the Agile Vocalist web site.
In 2007, Tommy Soulati Shepard and Kaitlin McGaw formed Alphabet Rockers to make music that makes change. This episode discusses how they met, the wide variety of their performing backgrounds and how they, 3 professional children artists and a host of other artist collaborators use hip hop to put a child's experience at the heart of its message.
The Alphabet Rockers mission is to create music that disrupts racism, educates and fills children and adults with messages of hope and joy. Tommy and Kaitlin talk about how a parent's role is so important in nurturing a child's growth and confidence. Their work encourages both children and adults to reflect on their own experiences, actions, non-actions and to ponder the role of silence.
More about Agile Vocalist, including artist biographies, liner notes and additional visual material for every episode can be found on the Agile Vocalist web site.
I just want to say that whoever's listening to this space, just what is your agility in the moment with your voice? That's the real question, and what are the parts you need to stretch, what are the parts you need to rest? As my friend. There is something that I might need you to do. Just because you say we need equality too will you speak out, step up and defend my truth? If you do, i'll go with you, cause as my friend you will know the truth and love just who I am.
Speaker 3:Listen to this next Agile Vocalist episode. Agile Vocalist is a podcast and blog about sound and the performing arts with a California connection. Tommy Solati Shepherd is an internationally renowned actor, playwright, composer, educator, rapper, drummer, beatboxer and music producer. Tommy is a member of Campo Santo Antique Naked Soul and co-founder of Alphabet Rockers. Tommy has composed, performed and toured internationally with Mark Bamuthi Joseph, collaborating on Scourge, the Breaks Spoken World, red, black and Green Abluse and Pelota. Tommy won a 2018 Isadora Duncan Award and is a four-time Grammy nominee. Tommy brings love for family, art, activism and community building to all of his work, sparking inspiration for a more joyful and equitable world. He's the proud father of Tommy Shepherd III, one of Alphabet Rockers' youth artists whom he's raising with his wife.
Speaker 3:Anna Caitlin McGaw is a writer, listener and co-founder of Alphabet Rockers, based in Oakland, california, on Ohlone lands. Her path in anti-racism and art began as a youth in Belmont, massachusetts, where community dialogue, activism and poetry framed her purpose and relationship with the world. She's a graduate of Harvard with a BA in African American Studies and a four-time Grammy nominee artist, fellow and deeply committed partner for change. Caitlin believes radical imagination begins with the way we read, sing and ask questions of the world with our children. She's the mother of two creative children of her own, whom she's raising with her husband, addy. In 2023, the movement won the Grammy Award for Best Children's Music Album. Congratulations, alphabet Rockers. Thank you for having me, tommy And Caitlin In your space. Tommy, what do you call this space again?
Speaker 5:Call it our cacodial, because when we call out to our folks, we say cacoo.
Speaker 3:So it's the cacodial. What's the maximum? how many people have you had?
Speaker 5:in this space before I've had eight, yeah or more, like those summer times where, like everybody and the parents were here.
Speaker 1:Make that more. Yeah, that's great, that's great.
Speaker 3:It's a great space.
Speaker 1:The origins of the cacoo within the Rockers was when we were. Our first Grammy nomination was in New York City And we're like how are we going to get everyone's attention? There were 40 of us traveling together Kids parents On trains.
Speaker 6:On the streets, grandparents, everybody.
Speaker 1:And we said, how are we going to do this? And I was just coo-coo And then everyone would pause. It stuck. So that's been five years of that.
Speaker 4:That's super great Yeah.
Speaker 3:I knew there was a story there, so this is a warm-up question to just get you comfortable. What song did you wake up to today, if any, or sound, or You know how the brain, like, starts running when?
Speaker 5:you're? Yeah, i wake up with a song every morning. I used to like just wake up and then write it down. What I heard today, it was Come On, eileen. Today I heard that. That's what I woke up to.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I actually woke up to the sound of my alarm.
Speaker 4:That's the sound of my alarm.
Speaker 1:And it was a welcome change, because usually my daughter wakes me up and so I'm sleeping in her bed.
Speaker 6:So this was a wonderful moment of waking up alone.
Speaker 1:The first song I played today after the classical music to like just wake up the space a little bit, was I think it was Joy by Andy Grammer, which is this like We call it a driving song. It's like a Can you sing? Try to change their. Well, actually I was singing the next song after it, so I know my brain's going. I found Joy and she opened up my eyes, something like that, and I played it again for Jasmine to wake her up. I went in and I was like, come on, babe, this is about a parent who loves their kids so much. She was just sleeping. She was just sleeping, yeah.
Speaker 3:What's the classical Like what's the Oh.
Speaker 1:I just I was very I need to get regulated by soft sounds. Didn't always have this. It might be like having two children post-pandemic, but my mom always played classical piano as her way of chilling out, and so for me it actually just lowers the frequency in the home so that there's not too many spikes of calling out and claiming for mama's mind.
Speaker 3:I have so much pride and love for people who find a partner, make a partnership. And I'm just curious, because you're accountable to each other, you probably don't agree on everything. I don't know what you tell me, but how do you find each other?
Speaker 6:How do you?
Speaker 3:stay together. What keeps it humming?
Speaker 1:That's a great question because we've had other folks that were pretty close to the center and they've asked us to like don't you guys get disagreements, Don't?
Speaker 3:you this.
Speaker 1:I feel like The first thing about it this past week that I think. Number one is trust. We trust that we're in this for the right reasons And if it didn't feel right, we'd say something. So that basic trust communication, there's no backstories going on and there's no passive business. Number two is purpose We know why we're doing what we're doing. And number three I would just say is passion for it, like really diving in and still enjoying the process towards the purpose with trust. Gotta have that trust.
Speaker 5:Yeah, i would say that, yeah, i would say we never have. We have multiple disagreements. That's not true, but none of it's ever been like a deal breaker. You know, one of us will bend in the end to whatever. You know what I mean. It's never a situation of like, well, i gotta have it this way, or nothing at all. It's like, okay, well, i'm not gonna fight this right now, i don't agree, but I'm not gonna fight it.
Speaker 5:I'm actually gonna go with it. You know what I mean. It's to say yes to mentality. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Like a theater skill, yeah, yeah, and that's musical. To me that's a microcosm of musical collaboration, which is somebody's gotta leave right now, but that doesn't mean they gotta leave the whole time. You can pass it around, you can collaborate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we use that in our process of like somebody throws paint on the wall And so, as song writers, like sometimes the conversation you might witness is well, this isn't really done yet, and there's a lot of like hamming and hawing before an idea is shared, and I think we micro dose that we don't do that big time. We kind of just like how about this? And then the other person's like hmm, okay, sometimes it's like I don't know why, but let's go.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but let's go.
Speaker 1:And so now what we find like as business partners when we write music together, it goes really fast. Like yesterday we had a collaboration and somebody sent us a song. We finished the whole thing in probably 45 minutes because we just said we hit, told the engineer, press, record the energy flows, and then we're all ooh, i like what you did there. And he actually wrote a whole vocal part off of my improv, which both sound intentionally woven together. So it's pretty fun.
Speaker 3:I have a dumb question. When you and I talked, i said I love improv, and then, as I dove in and started to do some research, i was like, oh no, the word is freestyle. Oh, that's a good one, because you come from an acting background as well, and spoken words. So would you break that down for?
Speaker 5:What like freestyle versus?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because to me improv isn't like theater slapstick, It's like making up a song.
Speaker 4:Like we could do it right here.
Speaker 3:And so that, and maybe that's just because I'm musical rather than theater.
Speaker 5:Right, i think it's all the same words. You're just making pretty much something out of nothing. You're saying yes to everything. Now, traditionally, rappers, when they freestyle, they have a subject in their head and they're trying to take you on a journey as far as what they're talking about. As a freestyler, i usually look around and see what's happening in the room and talk about things that are on my mind. Now, when you're doing theater, you're usually doing that with someone else. I haven't had many situations where you had to improv a monologue. You know what I mean, right, usually between people. But a rapper can freestyle by himself, but the best experiences are when you're in a cypher Freestyle with other people Doing this thing for a long while, trying to get my podcast.
Speaker 5:Be agile, yes, be a vocalist, not stay pissed about the world that we're in, because I don't want to miss all the love, the shore, the break, the love and all that I got to do as I fly from above like a dove And, yes, i got that trophy And I can say everybody might just know me, they call me so Latif from the Doremi. It's like Doremi Fa. You know me Now, it's just like that And I bring that rap with the rhythm of the soul that makes your hand clap, even though it sounds like a snap, i do it just like that. Give me a fist bump and I can call it that. So I do it like this And do not miss things coming from the agile vocalist.
Speaker 4:That's so beautiful.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's where I come from. I come from, if anything. I started making money with beatboxing before anything. Before I got acting jobs, before I got drumming jobs it was beatboxing. That was kind of people are like I'll pay you for that.
Speaker 3:Like, who was paying for that? I'm super.
Speaker 5:I mean, at first it was like kind of like trades at parties. You got free drinks today, you're going to eat, you're going to have party favors, you're. You know, other times my group was an acapella group, the first group. We called ourselves Fallonius Punk, which I have my tattoo, and we used to do like markets. We go to San Luis Obispo and go to the street market and we would bust and then we would come home with bags of veggies and Well, i cuz like nobody was like tipping, but they're like hey, man, take these cuties with you.
Speaker 4:No, we were the one.
Speaker 6:Yeah, beat, rap like beats in your salad. Yummy, fresh lunch balance, chopping mangoes, tomatoes, a vitamin booster Halo, it's on my head like I'm an angel, cuz you know I say no to a cookie, even though that's how my name go. Yellow, red and green Up in my diet like a pepper rainbow. Yummy, fresh, yummy, yummy food up in my tummy.
Speaker 5:Spiritually wealthy wealthy, cuz you know we keep the healthy so, yeah, i started doing that and then, like I did Actually a couple TV shows where I played like characters that were beatbox centric, and then I got into and then I started getting hired to to Sound, like to do sound for a place, compose, like be the composer, but vocally. So I started doing that because I started telling stories, with beatboxing More like Foley style versus like just beats all the time. So just you know, creating soundscapes, things like that and I moved from doing that to actually like Helping a whole cast become the music. So it started off like sitting in the back doing a play and beatboxing, with a looper Doing that type of stuff. And then I was like, well, why don't we use the bodies on the stage to actually create this music?
Speaker 3:and Yeah, i was made by Foley because I just learned about Foley artists right where they're Like for me eating the same.
Speaker 5:Eating the same.
Speaker 3:You can't possibly set up with a soundstage and have it sound good, right, right.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, I was doing that like Almost like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, but the curtain was exposed And, yeah, i saw that. One of your questions was, uh Was about the Izzy, and that's what I got the Izzy for was my composition, vocal composition, yeah, and the cast sang all the music. Every bit of music and that thing was came from us And it was an awesome process. I've been working with Banu T Joseph for years, since like 2003, and so I started off being his drummer, then I was the band leader, mm-hmm, and then I was drumming and looping at the same time and Music and things like that, yeah, always was like the multiple guys like can make the kids with my mouth, and then You know what I mean I was always trying to do multiple things at one time and, uh, that was the novelty of it And so, or the virtuosity of it, you know, uh, yeah, so That got built up.
Speaker 5:We got submitted for the is it door dunking award and got that, got that composition award. It was. It was really nice, and still doing it not not with that group of people, but still like theaters is in us, and so We're about to bring beat boxing back into our show. You know, and like you know, see, if you tell some stories through beats and things like that, or just get some Beats going, you know, get the crowd Doing the beat and all that stuff. So yeah, that's that.
Speaker 3:Did we answer? how did you guys meet?
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, Yeah, kind of like through that stuff. Okay then here we were. Here. We're both kind of like doing this in the arts world, kind of like knew so many of the same people, just didn't know it here in the Bay, in the Bay, okay, yeah, san Francisco and uh, yeah, and actually he was in a play called beat box, a rapperetta with the philineas punk rap rapperetta, you can tell what that means.
Speaker 1:It was Completely breakthrough art for the world and that was about 2000 okay okay, okay, but you didn't really start.
Speaker 3:Alphabet rocker still 2007.
Speaker 5:Yeah, okay, yeah, didn't even meet until then. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You were running parallel, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know the music scene and the art scene is like You know about each other, or even if you don't, you're one hand to shake away from each other, so you're on the same journey together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right. Yeah why don't you so what was in your world, as in that parallel world, in the parallel world at?
Speaker 4:the same Roughly the same time.
Speaker 3:Where were you?
Speaker 1:Well, i, i moved here, um to san francisco in 2000. I graduated from Hullwood and I really was running away from that experience. To be honest, um, i was always an artist, i was always an activist theater, music, everything and That space was about limits and, um, not about freedom of heart and and expression. So I was like, well, maybe one of my friends moved here. So I was like, maybe I'll go to. That's really how I got here. It was like, let's see if it's actually an inclusive space like I read about In the.
Speaker 3:You know, the history of the bay here, activism Yeah and so that's what drew me here.
Speaker 1:But what kept me here was that there was a freedom, space of expression like I. I appreciated every element of it, from like being in drag shows to wild theater, to Cover bands and open mic nights. I did everything dance troops, i did literally everything. And why not when you're you know that's, that's part of like, the bravery of like Just exploring, like life. I never asked people what do you do for a living? I say what, what's motivating you're like, what do you do to enjoy your life?
Speaker 1:I'm still kind of like that In any case along the road I started noticing that, like Certain artistic efforts took so much time and focus And they'd only go up for one show, and so I'd be like, okay, so the theater process in the Bay Area unless you're in a touring show, like Tom was talking about like you basically put in like a month, two months, and then you have like two days because the theater is so expensive to run. And so I started feeling like man, that's it. It didn't feel like I got to really go too deep into the performance space And then it was just already like cast party and done. I was like this doesn't feel right. So then I was like what about this dance troupe? Let me go hard on the dance troupe.
Speaker 1:So we did that, went all the way to Vegas. Tons of stuff, same thing. That was like we'd put probably 12 hours a week in rehearsal For like a five minute performance or whatever it is Formed, a pride for all these places. And that too, i was just like wait, there's gotta be something else, like where you would, all the time you put in, you can still play with elements and adapt it. And so I started that actually like unlocked me and to music was. I'd always been a player And singer, but um, we turned out to have the same mentor, which is Dwayne Caliza, who um was and just a source of like Everything good on the planet truth and light, oh my gosh, pure, like being around, like holy energy, like truly like one of the most loving, beautiful voices.
Speaker 1:We found out later, i think, actually, when Dwayne passed, that He was like both of our. You know, he was an anchor for both of us. Y'all were in a show. We were in a different show together.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we were in a show together and he was vocal coaching me all the way through and never stopped.
Speaker 4:Okay, so we were we were in a show together.
Speaker 1:And I was. I had gone to audition for it and then I was like, oh my gosh, can I study voice with you? I'm just like, of course went to his beautiful home, which was like being inside of Like a shelf of precious things, like everything was magnetic and beautiful and Like there were stories just bustling in every corner. And I remember he sat there just playing this chord on the guitar, waiting for me to write my first song. He just sat there staring And I was like, oh my gosh, i feel so. It was so uncomfortable, but it was safe at the same time, like writing your first anything like sure, We're just jumping and you don't know where it's gonna be.
Speaker 1:You need to know you're gonna be safe right.
Speaker 1:And after going through like a hard way experience where you're not good enough, you're not gonna get into the show, you're not gonna be accepted, to have someone just sit there and be like I'm not actually gonna go anywhere and I'm not looking at the clock, let's write a song. So, anyways, that was how I started writing music and that just then, i just followed it, because anytime you write something, it's not the end of it. You have to like then see where it goes. And even now, with the songs that we created in 2016, we're still look, we like remix them or we think about elements of them that still serve us today. How can we make it still feel vibrant to us, like we're not? it's not a one and done situation.
Speaker 1:So, that's kind of my journey in spiritual life.
Speaker 5:We fall.
Speaker 3:The shift between sort of you know, pre-k educational and then the shift to art for change. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and how the kids can do it?
Speaker 1:Totally. I mean, I feel like it's. I feel like the music we started with was art for change, for why?
Speaker 1:we were doing it because really like educators weren't seeing everybody in the classroom with open energy and eyes. They weren't acknowledging that everyone was brilliant, and so there was an element of us being like well, if we make the music for you that makes learning feel vibrant, you'll see that the children you missed are listening actually Like, because music, even if they're not physical expressors, you can tell when people like there's different ways of learning. So we were excited about that in performances too. Like we knew what it was to go into a space like make no mistake, we were getting the most racist things said to us by librarians, educators, parents about hip hop, which is just anti blackness in a different sort of words. You know what are you going to use? language that's appropriate for children? It's like it's that is a signal to us that you actually are just harvesting anti blackness in the way you hold space.
Speaker 1:So that was how we entered it. So then it's like what are you going to do with that? Are you going to have the white woman of the duo be like hey, y'all that's on? you Like, yeah, we do, we. I mean, we experiment with all of it. You have the black male artists of the two say Hey, can let me explain hip hop to you. It's this we're not catering to, like people who aren't doing the work, because then it's just like I don't know. It's like serving up a platter they didn't even want And they're not necessarily the ones we're cooking for. You know, basic analogy.
Speaker 5:I also know that both of us were already working with kids before we, before we met, i was a teaching artist, but teaching elements of hip hop with a group of people. The best case scenarios when we all went into a school and taught five different classes and then go to the next element, like teach a whole school, every element. So we go into class I was the beat guy, the drums and rhythm, and then I would someone else would be teaching graffiti and DJing and rapping in different places, but then the rapper would come to this class and we like in a full day, get all the elements into all these classes. And so we were doing that. I think when we met, my wife had just gotten pregnant And so still hadn't had a kid quite yet. We started performing together but just were really into kids And I think that, like, as far as music, i felt like we were feeling a void musically.
Speaker 5:I remember when musicians come to my class they always came with a harmonica or a banjo or a guitar and they were strong and we'd be singing songs that were kind of boring to me. It wasn't my jam, like helping me learn. You know what I mean, and so we knew that a lot of Bayard kids were, you know, would do this if they heard a beat, you know. And so we're like, yeah, man, let's bring hip hop into this place and really expose it as a freedom, culture and an aesthetic, a life aesthetic, versus just this music, you know. And so we start bringing the aesthetics of belonging, of being in circle, of getting putting your voice out there, and yeah. So without really knowing that that's what we're doing. I'm looking back at it and that's exactly what we're doing.
Speaker 1:There's also, like in this hip hop, ciphers that we created in classrooms and libraries. wherever there's a power dynamic that's immediately questioned versus somebody with a guitar might say this is your part only Like, right, this isn't shaming guitar players at all.
Speaker 4:Yeah, i mean I'm just trying to be sure.
Speaker 1:In fact, there's something quite radical in the framework of inclusion that already is happening musically. Even if we weren't to say anything about the world, it's already happening, But we made the change because people are not making there's what we realize is like we're doing it all in the heart space, So it's modeled, you're experiencing it, but we needed the words to actually line up a few more things, particularly for grownups, and there were conversations that we had to have backstage about power and race and gender, everything. We were already doing that because we're human and that's who we are, And we said seems like we might want to investigate doing this in the music itself. And then that's when we kind of we had to go really deep into it before we even wrote a song, though, because it's Yeah, before we pressed record or anything, we dove deep into it.
Speaker 5:I know that we were also experiencing other children's experiences. They trusted us to tell us their experiences. My son, of course, trusts me. He came home and said another, a mixed kid had said the N word, told him we are these ends, but he also told him that he wasn't Mexican, which he is, he's black and Mexican. So we had to have this whole rewiring of what he thought when he came home And that was one of the impetuses for us to start writing. In that way. We took it from the classroom to the playground And the playground was saying yellows, there's biases happening And there's bullying happening, not just physical bullying, there's all these things happening. And so we definitely were setting out to try to make music to empower folks on the playground And then we were like okay, well, it goes, bigger than a playground, where do you leave? when you leave the playground, you go home, and we tried to bring it to the home to get the parents involved in.
Speaker 1:And it got me thinking about bullying, because I started being like bullying is so connected to white supremacy because it is a dynamic of power and violence that gets condoned, And so I thought about that And I was like, well, how can anybody do a bullying show that doesn't talk about racism, gender and power and systems? And that's still a question because many people are doing it. It's just more like don't bully. Bullies is bad. But really, when I thought about what happened years ago for little Tommy and his friend at school and the educators, if you are silent in these moments and you don't actually know what to do, you can actually just create a ripple pattern of a future of silent violence in the schools that you just say, well, it looks like you guys worked it out, But really, it didn't, it just got swept in enough that it's like that's not my problem And I'll be fine whether or not you address it.
Speaker 1:My job is fine, my classroom looks fine, but then the same patterns start getting woven into, like well, that just happens to that kid. I don't know why that kid's so mad all the time. You know like these are like. I'm saying like little things that happen and black boys are targeted, peers and black girls, but we are watching it all the time. It happens very quickly. You can sit down in circle and somebody will target the black boy And I'm this is this year more intensely than previous years of our lives. So I'm just like, when we talk about this silence, if it's not investigated and it's really like, it's really harmful and it hurts everyone who loves black people honestly included. I'm just saying it hurt, it is harmful to be around because that means that somebody's needs are not being met and it's being condoned and patterned. I don't know. Just want to say that, say that It's really, that's an endemic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a disrespect Someone's. yeah, you're not all feeling safe and comfortable and respected and sentient being.
Speaker 1:And if you just like, truly, aren't talking about it in your family or in your classroom or in your lunch breaks, you know you just want to take a break. take your break, but gotta do something better, because I'm watching children literally sit down having done nothing and get hit Like I'm. physically, there's something happening spiritually in our planet that is like it's worse. I will just say that.
Speaker 3:What would you say? that's over a period of.
Speaker 1:I just I feel that there's like our children are holding all of our fear and our exhaustion and our disappointment, and our hope too. Like all of it, but like we got to investigate and like the joyfulness, the love and the experiences. And then the investigation of like why is life easier for you and your white body? Like question that What are you condoning So?
Speaker 5:Right, not asking you that question. asking you to ask that question, yeah, thank you, yeah, yeah, yeah, can I?
Speaker 4:just be. Can you just see me? Can I just be a child? Did you know I have me? Do you have children? Do you have family? Do you want to know me? Hold on to your back. Outdoor music plays.
Speaker 1:Because what happens is like people will dial up their energy around like Martin Luther King Day, actually, or now around Juneteenth, but it has to be like in every day, like while you're preparing the kids lunch, whatever the thing is like, and that's the, that's the tiring part of like living in the United States And that is why many like black people are like we got to go find a place where we can just live and not be toxic all the time, feel the toxicity of this environment. So when you're like the little bits along the way and yes, we actually also celebrate like the small moves, because if you're in tune with your family and your children, like you can, they'll recall a small movie made weeks ago, right, they recall. Oh, remember how you like whatever it is. Remember how we had bubbles that time. The same way they might remember Remember how we talked about like if this is to happen at school, what you do or how it felt.
Speaker 1:Remember how we talked about our melanin and how our melanin is actually getting more activated in this in the sunshine right now. Like whatever it is. Like. I'm white, my children are mixed heritage, indian white, and their skin is darker than mine And it is also lighter than their dads. So we're all going to have different vantage points to talking about our skin and skin privilege and all of the parts of my mind.
Speaker 1:In terms of freestyling, and I'm not a rapper. I'm, but I like to play games. We can play games in this way, like wordplay That's. I mean, that's a fundamental tool of writing and rapping, but I would not say Hey man, let me get in on that Also. It's like I feel like I get the same energy by being in circle, and so there's a question of like do you need to flex And is it like, or can you just hold space with each other?
Speaker 3:What do you mean by flex?
Speaker 1:like flex, as in let's say, yeah, get you know in the circle. Do you need to? is this your time where you need to express and have people hear you?
Speaker 4:Oh my.
Speaker 1:God, like I'm going to. There's times in my life where I feel like I need to be heard And I'm conscious of that. I think I have it right here, like a trumpet that blows. Like the amount of energy that goes into a trumpet to even get a sound right, that is like that's a symbol to me. And in our community I don't always need to be heard because the purpose of what we're doing is to create space for voices to be heard. It's not my fault.
Speaker 5:I'm very conscious of when we step up and step back.
Speaker 3:Right, and that's I mean putting the kids in the front.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. we've given them like since they were about eight. we've really set them up with a lot of different experiences, whether it be their first performance at the Bay Area Book Festival or we just, like they, did the songs that we've been doing. They were so nervous and so excited And we were like, oh my gosh, we're like little stage parents you know Parents. But they're writing too.
Speaker 1:And then the writing, like really nourishing them, and I think it's important to like to say this like for any flower of a child that wants to grow, their family needs to be invested in them And to write these songs or these poems in this way. The most successful versions of it that we see is when a parent is listening with them, not just the, even though this includes his son you know outsiders, right. But like the parent says like no go, you got this. Like, and that's what our three writers have done, their parents are with them.
Speaker 1:And even like we just did a whole program with young songwriters, budding songwriters, eight to 11 years old, movement, and actually we called it And we told them like, express yourselves, how do you feel powerful? They wrote it down. Now take it home and share it with them. We love you the most and see if there's something else to add to your poem. And it was fertile because they came back proud. But also like there's an alignment that happened when the parent says yes And also goes deeper, so they're not saying you know, just, i'm powerful when I'm a external validation. External validation like I'm a great soccer player. We see this when we go to like privileged communities. It'll be like what makes you feel powerful. I play soccer. I'm good at math.
Speaker 1:I'm good at this, i'm good at this, and it's all these things where people have told them they're good And what we notice underneath there is, if you ask and you keep asking, you listen. In a certain way, i feel powerful when I'm on my skateboard, because nothing can stop me. That's actually the nothing can stop me part. It's not the act of being good at something, it's actually the feeling. And what are you doing And like, what about it? So that's how we write with the young people and their families as well, and but you know these three youngsters that we did this last album with.
Speaker 5:We did something different and took it a step further and, like you know, got their ass capped and got their setup on sound exchange so they can collect royalties in the future, set them up with cooging accounts, so like any money they make is going to them when they turn 18, like that type of stuff, and taught them a little bit about the business of it, because I think they all three think they're going to be artists in the world, whether it's going to be singing or rapping or playing saxophone or whatever band they play in, they still want to be artists.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, that's awesome. What are the challenges of music as a family affair or what are the unique strengths of that as you're working together? Is it different than when, then, your your collaborations, you've done with other artists who you're not?
Speaker 5:All right. Well, we do our best to try to treat each other like a co worker. No ready, This is a dad to the son type of situations. Right, I would say that goes across the board for anything, except for you know some point. You got to be a parent, but you don't always got to be the parent You know, but sometimes they don't know enough yet for you to like kind of let them roll on some things.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know it gets tough sometimes. I have to stay silent and like not argue with him. He genuinely feels like he's better than me. He like at least once a week. he's like that. I feel like I'm a better saxophone player than you were, a drummer than you are, and I'm like battling him.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, and he's like I think I'm better at music than you are And I'm like you probably are, because you're learning theory and I never learned theory. There is in my head, you know, but you actually know what it is. So, yeah, you're probably becoming a you know, a more astute musician than me, but I have so many years of playing music and doing music that you can't possibly be better than me. And you know, and I have to stop doing that because he just doesn't believe it. He just doesn't believe it And me and my wife are always like dang dude, he doesn't. He really thinks he's better than you.
Speaker 1:It's so different because, like Maya, for example, if we're like she's the young woman of the group, i just I know she's better than me And she has no interest in trying to like, she doesn't need to know that, right, we pour it into her. You're about how talented she is. We try to do everything we can for her to fly, And she understands that it's not about her as an individual. And so when you ask about what it is to be a family affair of music, it really is about the collective space that we do. And if somebody wants to come into the mix and be a soloist in a way, let me get mine. Whatever it is, let me get my Grammy with you.
Speaker 1:It's not really the right, it's not going to work out Right. Right, it's not really the right intention. But what's fun about making music with people that we've known for what 10 years? Dancers, djs. We take care of each other's kids. There's co parenting when we're in community holding each other's babies. Bring your baby on tour with us. We've asked you. There's like you never go hungry, like people bring food for you, like there's ways that are so non transactional, that are just like watering the roots of what is like the forest that we are. We share water, we share sunlight.
Speaker 5:Yeah, And it's not a situation where you just drop your kid off and right. And you know, and then they're with us now you're welcome to be here too, Like you're invited, And organically that happened. Like parents, my parents, colleagues, parents use like when we all started off together, they were like, yeah, man, we're gonna stay, like we're here, Like, and that became a thing you know was that like a built in audience? I wouldn't say that it was just more of a support system. I think And the music is written.
Speaker 1:We're all healing ourselves as we do this, like it's not, like we show up to a studio session, like we're about to live this good life. We're like I'm hurting, let's make something with this. You know, and even if it's not on that topic, like you're in space with vibrations singing singing again. You sound so beautiful, people. Like it's healing who we are, is a grown-ups, it's healing our childhood. So when the parents come and they're not like the ones on stage, they're like I need this actually.
Speaker 4:Like I needed that song today.
Speaker 5:I'm being sad, I don't.
Speaker 1:it's okay, if I've heard it before, i need to hear it right now, because where we're existing is for the future, and so sometimes people don't even know we're here in this way, but people who are do or like more please pull up close, like you know that you saw it first hand. You're like what is this, right? I mean, it made you want to talk to us.
Speaker 5:Yeah, You know we got. I'm gonna to pick a little bit trumpet.
Speaker 3:Do you play trumpet?
Speaker 1:No, she does, in her mind It's more about this instrument reflects a block to me. Like a block, yes, because the amount of air you need to support to even get the sound out beautifully, it's like. It's a. It's like it's a. it's magical to me The word I play clarinet. clarinet does not take that level of like intensity for me Stay windy.
Speaker 5:I was going to say that there's people without kids that come to our shows. Yes, sit there and cry. Sit there and cry Like not your school shows, but like you know, freight and salvage. Right, absolutely. Different venues, SF jazz. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:They're like people have come out, Yeah, just divide They don't even have kids.
Speaker 5:They might be aunties and uncles and things like that, but they didn't bring their nieces and nephews with them. They came just to vibe, you know, which is awesome. That's awesome. What do you call it, marker?
Speaker 1:And there's teachers, like we've done this, where we do exactly what we're talking about. We're talking about energetic, intentional music, where the teachers in the schools are so invested or you'll see the like custodian in the back of their arm, just like yes, part, yeah, and they like kind of lose a little bit of their like place on like what their activity was, because they're they're served Right. That's not all. If you get this, if you get the sound engineer, the custodian or like front of house to actually leave what they're doing to come in and see what's happening, you know, you did your job as a musician.
Speaker 5:Yeah, lunch lady stops doing this stuff And you know what?
Speaker 1:There's some schools where they're like we made you some food. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 4:It doesn't sound powerful.
Speaker 5:It is Sound and message, and then the measure of fame becomes like really cool because people are like are you famous? I'm like, yeah, heck famous, you know what I mean. Like you'll be out and I was doing a event, a library event. It was like a like a late night event, and there are people on third like it's like an open atrium spot, but you could see the floors and there was someone on the third floor like on some like yo alphabet rockers, and I was like, hey, what's up there Like Diamond District library, and you know what I mean. Like like the other, like that, they're like yo. I know you. We went to a high school.
Speaker 1:Now, when we say we make music for children and families, high school was not our target audience, high schoolers I'm pulling up and I was like I hope they know, like that, we know, you know, they meant to book us Right. I was like, oh my God, taylor Swift, you know, came on And I was like Hey, can we take pictures of you? I was like, yeah, yeah, it was bananas Grown up, grown up kids.