What If: A Death in the Family

This week, Derrick and Xtina take on the question of how the death of a close friend would affect their main characters.

We are also hosting a giveaway!

For a chance at your very own set of dice and some other goodies, visit our Facebook Page, leave a like or follow, and comment on the first pinned post before October 31st, letting us know what your favorite episode so far has been and why! A winner will be chosen from the qualified entrants and announced on November 8th!

Derrick's Top Secret Project #1 has been revealed! Ten Levels Down is part of the 2023 Inkfort Press Publishing Derby. A list of this year's published titles can be found here. This sarcastic, nerdtastic, GameLIT novella can be found on Amazon or elsewhere!

Meg Lindsey's new book, The Unfortunate Legacy of Mr. Hyde is available on Amazon.

Derrick is a working photographer and author of the Crimson Prophecy series, consisting of The Trials of Tiarsus, Berylis, Qetran Odyssey, and Qetran Revival. He can be found at his website www.DerrickHallAuthor.com.

Christina "Xtina" Lefebvre is an assemblage artist and author currently writing her first novel 'Cogs & Claws' and can be found at www.UniquelyXtina.com.     

Transcript

Xtina Lefebvre: Hello and welcome to Episode 28 of the What If South is Up? podcast where we talk about the ups and downs of creating worlds from scratch and all the we experience along the way. In a nutshell, how to wing it like an author. My name is Christina, Xtina Lefebvre and I'm in the middle of building my first world, a magical parallel earth where colonization never happened in the Americas, and reworking my first novel with a working title of COGS and Arrows. And with me is the ever talented and ever so fun. Mr. Deeeeerick I Call?

Derrick Hall: Oh, that's me. Hi, I am Derrick Hall, author and creator of the Crimson Prophecy series, of which four books are available just about anywhere you would want to buy an e-book. And I'm also the creator of the Horizon Game Lit World, of which there is one which is also

Xtina Lefebvre: One.

Derrick Hall: available just about anywhere you would want to buy an e-book. So. That's me.

Xtina Lefebvre: That's

Derrick Hall: Xtina

Xtina Lefebvre: you.

Derrick Hall: what are you drinking today?

Xtina Lefebvre: I thought I was going to have to fib because I didn't have anything. But guess what I found? You'll never guess. So I'm going to say it. I found a cheap and I mean very, very cheap. I mean a really, really cheap wine. It was a leftover from a brunch potluck ahead a few weeks ago. It is a watermelon wine.

Derrick Hall: That's a new one for me. I've had

Xtina Lefebvre: Yes.

Derrick Hall: lots of different kinds of wine, but watermelon is not one of them.

Xtina Lefebvre: I'll just say that it's better than going outside where it's 19 degrees right now and I'm not ready for winter, so.

Derrick Hall: Ha.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: You're welcome. It finally got to you.

Xtina Lefebvre: I knew it would. As soon as you said you had it, I was like, Oh,

Derrick Hall: Yup.

Xtina Lefebvre: here

Derrick Hall: Yup.

Xtina Lefebvre: it comes.

Derrick Hall: And that's the problem with our latitude. We're

Xtina Lefebvre: Geography.

Derrick Hall: about even. So what

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: I get, you get like, a week later.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep. That's about right. Absolutely.

Derrick Hall: So

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh, so.

Derrick Hall: I've been on I've been under snow for a week,

Xtina Lefebvre: When

Derrick Hall: and you're just now getting it. That's great.

Xtina Lefebvre: I saw the pics. I don't want any snow and it's really we had a really cold, cold, cold, wet day and that was miserable.

Derrick Hall: Hmm. Hmm hmm. Hmm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I'd better not be wet.

Derrick Hall: You know, trick or treating was all kinds of fun in like 15 degrees with an inch of ice on everything.

Xtina Lefebvre: Uh. Uh, I don't. I don't. You know what? I. Good for you. I'm done with those days, and

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: I. And I. I don't. I'll never

Derrick Hall: You

Xtina Lefebvre: go

Derrick Hall: go

Xtina Lefebvre: back.

Derrick Hall: walk

Xtina Lefebvre: So

Derrick Hall: three miles in that mess with a toddler.

Xtina Lefebvre: I have been there. Done that? Yep.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I paid my dues.

Derrick Hall: It's special.

Xtina Lefebvre: So what are you drinking tonight?

Derrick Hall: I also thought I was going to have to fib and I don't because I looked at my liquor cabinet and discovered that I had the makings of a strawberry daiquiri.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I just want all of our listeners to know that we don't fib. This was just a special occasion.

Derrick Hall: I'm broke and my cabinet is lean. Okay.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mine is too.

Derrick Hall: This shit

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh,

Derrick Hall: don't

Xtina Lefebvre: yeah,

Derrick Hall: pay.

Xtina Lefebvre: yeah, yeah. Podcasts don't pay Well, not yet. Maybe in five years, if we keep doing it, we might see some revenue, but.

Derrick Hall: Mhm. I'd just like enough to pay for the hosting.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. Yeah, that would

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: be very brilliant. Well, you know what? I don't want to work for free forever. So

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm.

Derrick Hall: I feel that if you're good at something,

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: don't do it for free. So maybe we need a Patreon or something.

Xtina Lefebvre: You know, it's not a bad idea.

Derrick Hall: Or

Xtina Lefebvre: Whatever

Derrick Hall: a

Xtina Lefebvre: we do. Kofi.

Derrick Hall: buy me a beer button on the website.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep. Buy me a beer. I wish I don't have buy me coffee, but is there a buy me a beer?

Derrick Hall: Make the button, say whatever you want. It just goes to a PayPal donation page.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: So maybe we need to do something,

Derrick Hall: We might

Xtina Lefebvre: but

Derrick Hall: need to do something.

Xtina Lefebvre: we might need to do something.

Derrick Hall: Yes.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: So I have a strawberry daiquiri with actually a shot of triple sec in it. So it's got a little bit of a pucker factor.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hmm. Pucker. That's

Derrick Hall: Pucker.

Xtina Lefebvre: a funny word. Pucker.

Derrick Hall: Booker

Xtina Lefebvre: Pucker

Derrick Hall: right up there with Quagmire. And discombobulated. Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: or someone? I used to say that my my ex-husband said was in a real world of a real word. I don't know. E used to tell me that that's not a word. Yes, it is. But Pucker. I like Booker.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay.

Derrick Hall: Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Xtina Lefebvre: So what are you reading or maybe watching? I went, I am reading. What are you reading?

Derrick Hall: I went to see the movie The Creator over the weekend. And I

Xtina Lefebvre: Hmm.

Derrick Hall: don't think I can name a more depressing movie.

Xtina Lefebvre: No.

Derrick Hall: It was

Xtina Lefebvre: I

Derrick Hall: good.

Xtina Lefebvre: will stay.

Derrick Hall: Don't don't get me wrong, but I don't think there was a single, truly happy moment in the entire thing. So,

Xtina Lefebvre: Wow.

Derrick Hall: dear listener, if you haven't seen the Creator yet, consider yourself warned.

Xtina Lefebvre: But then.

Derrick Hall: I left the movie, walked next door to the bar, and the bartender, a friend of mine, she looked at me and she goes, You just came from the movie Debt. And I was like, Yeah, like, you need a drink, don't you? Yeah, I ordered a single.

Xtina Lefebvre: And

Derrick Hall: She poured a double because she had already seen it and knew.

Xtina Lefebvre: that is that you know what? You know, what's the best part of that story is you have a bartender.

Derrick Hall: A good bartender.

Xtina Lefebvre: Where's.

Derrick Hall: Shout out to Michelle. She's awesome.

Xtina Lefebvre: You know,

Derrick Hall: We've been friends for years, but.

Xtina Lefebvre: my favorite

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: bartender went and got a real job, so.

Derrick Hall: Rude.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Mandy. Yeah, she was the best.

Derrick Hall: Now. Apparently she had already seen it and then had like an hour and a half car ride home. That was, in her words, way too quiet.

Xtina Lefebvre: Uh.

Derrick Hall: So it's just one of those movies like it's good, but you need to be in the right headspace for it.

Xtina Lefebvre: So this is a movie I can avoid.

Derrick Hall: Probably

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: it's timely and poignant and. The acting was excellent, the effects were excellent, the directing was excellent. Everything about it was excellent. It was just really depressing. So. Yeah. What about you? What are you reading or watching?

Xtina Lefebvre: So what am I reading? Well, I'm reading another beta for a friend. Nothing I can share. I can say that it's interesting the story structure that he chose and what he's come up with. So I don't think that structure would work for me. But it's interesting. he's doing a great job. And you remember our friend Meg.

Derrick Hall: Of course,

Xtina Lefebvre: Yes. And.

Derrick Hall: the most excellent Meg Lindsay.

Xtina Lefebvre: There you go. I'm reading her latest book.

Derrick Hall: Oh. What do you think so far?

Xtina Lefebvre: What is it?

Derrick Hall: unfortunate legacy of Mr. Hyde.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah, it's great. And once in a while, when she describes something, I'm blown away.

Derrick Hall: She's so good, isn't she?

Xtina Lefebvre: Her metaphor and her simile

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: skills are off the chart.

Derrick Hall: I had the privilege to beta read that story for her and immediately fell in love with it

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh,

Derrick Hall: and

Xtina Lefebvre: it's.

Derrick Hall: absolutely love it. And then here recently I actually had the privilege of designing the cover for it, but

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh.

Derrick Hall: it's it's such a good story. Like she did so good last year and again this year. Just knocked it out of the park.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah, she did.

Derrick Hall: But.

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm really enjoying it. And everyone knows that I have narcolepsy, and it's hard for me to read books,

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: and I'm not having a problem with this one.

Derrick Hall: Hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I mean, it's

Derrick Hall: It's

Xtina Lefebvre: really

Derrick Hall: hard

Xtina Lefebvre: engaging.

Derrick Hall: to put down.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: I think I read the whole thing in like two sittings when I did the beta. It's so

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm

Derrick Hall: good.

Xtina Lefebvre: pretty sure. Yeah, I just read the first half. I'm pretty sure if I sit down and get well now I'm I have to wait till the end of the month but you know, the next time I sit down with it. But.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: So

Derrick Hall: So

Xtina Lefebvre: other than

Derrick Hall: for.

Xtina Lefebvre: that, I'm watching only murders in the building with hubby.

Derrick Hall: Okay. I haven't gotten around

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: to that one yet. I love Steve Martin. He's awesome.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's done really well. I mean.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: And you know, the fact that you and I are on a podcast and it's kind of like, you know, they're doing a podcast to I don't know, just it's

Derrick Hall: Just

Xtina Lefebvre: it's

Derrick Hall: kind of fun.

Xtina Lefebvre: it's cute.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, what author problems have you encountered or solved since our last episode?

Xtina Lefebvre: So I am now in the not solving anything mode because, well, NaNoWriMo has started and for anybody that doesn't know what that is, it's national, not novel writing. But and it's a well, it's a national thing, actually. It's international now, I think.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: And you attempt to write 50,000 words within November. So this month it's all about writing and just writing. And I'm hoping that I've worked out most of the little kinks that were in my story. Well, enough of the kinks that I can just just write. So let's

Derrick Hall: Kinky.

Xtina Lefebvre: hope that it's helping this episode and the next episode of our podcast. I get to say I've worked on No Worldbuilding because I am focusing on writing.

Derrick Hall: You'll run into something. I guarantee it.

Xtina Lefebvre: So they say, yeah, and here's the problem is this is going to take discipline from me. I will run into something. And at that point, I need to write a note. Fix this later. Write a little bracket trick that they talk about,

Derrick Hall: Yeah,

Xtina Lefebvre: and then I

Derrick Hall: yeah,

Xtina Lefebvre: move on.

Derrick Hall: yeah,

Xtina Lefebvre: So

Derrick Hall: yeah, yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: because it's

Derrick Hall: Self-discipline.

Xtina Lefebvre: about producing words,

Derrick Hall: What's that?

Xtina Lefebvre: yeah, I don't have much of it, but we'll see.

Derrick Hall: Me neither.

Xtina Lefebvre: And I'm just really hoping that on the next podcast. Our next episode. I won't be embarrassed. I'll be able to say yes. I've written words. So.

Derrick Hall: Now I'm one of those writers that'll hit one of those spots at like mid chapter where it's like, I don't actually know what goes here. And then I will go and write an entire mythology for a side culture, that seen for like two chapters in that book and then come back and finish the chapter because now I know the mythology

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep. You and me too. So.

Derrick Hall: no little bracket notes for me, but.

Xtina Lefebvre: I have to I have to skip this month and this month I only November. I have to skip it. So

Derrick Hall: Okay.

Xtina Lefebvre: we'll see if I do.

Derrick Hall: I'll just

Xtina Lefebvre: We'll

Derrick Hall: stick

Xtina Lefebvre: see

Derrick Hall: to

Xtina Lefebvre: if I

Derrick Hall: not

Xtina Lefebvre: do.

Derrick Hall: shaving.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. So have you encountered or what are you experiencing with, um, you know, world building problems or other problems?

Derrick Hall: Oh, more of the same. I've just been playing with some ideas on how to develop a secondary character's plotline and working on the hard copy release of Ten Levels Down, formerly top secret number one, which is its own problem, largely because I'm toying with the idea of expanding it some for the special edition, but I'm not sure if I want to or if I did want to. How exactly to do that?

Xtina Lefebvre: Uh huh.

Derrick Hall: So there's a lot there to play with. But how much playing do I really want or need to do to it? To make it worthwhile. Like, do I want to expand a book that's already written and edited and ready to go and have to edit and all that again? Or do I just leave it like it is? Yeah, I've been playing with that because I'm trying to get that up probably by the end of the month. I want the hard copy done. But

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: yep, I have several people already who are like, I'm waiting for the hard copy and I'm like, Well, screw you too, man.

Xtina Lefebvre: You Know special editions. I

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: don't

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: know that there needs to be any more prose. I just think it needs to be beautiful. I just think it needs to be, you know, have something special about the physicality of the book,

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: you know,

Derrick Hall: Well,

Xtina Lefebvre: and.

Derrick Hall: for anyone who hasn't been around my Facebook page or anything like that, what I'm what I'm doing is making a whole bunch of brand new custom artwork for this story and then doing an art book edition. And it's going to be, you know, glossy, printed, full color whole nine yards with like a bunch of concept art kind of stuff in it.

Xtina Lefebvre: And it will be included in this special edition, this hard copy.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. The hard copy is a special edition. I'm not doing a normal paperback for this.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hmm.

Derrick Hall: So what I'm planning is a hardback, full color, glossy, art book edition. And I'm debating whether or not to add an extra chapter or two as an exclusive.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: To this edition and not to the e-book edition. But I don't know. Like, I could easily do it. It's just a matter of if I want to.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: Yap,

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: yap, yap, yap. Lots,

Xtina Lefebvre: All

Derrick Hall: lot.

Xtina Lefebvre: right.

Derrick Hall: Lots to noodle on.

Xtina Lefebvre: Sounds exciting. We're all sitting here with bated breath waiting for it to Wallets out. People wallets out.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: Every week we like to share one sentence from our current works in progress. A single sentence, no context. So, Derrick, are you ready for dead darlings?

Derrick Hall: Absolutely.

Xtina Lefebvre: What you got for us?

Derrick Hall: The chains snapped one by one as the beast struggled against its bonds before it leapt into the air and set about laying waste to the empire.

Xtina Lefebvre: The whole empire.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's a big beast. Wow.

Derrick Hall: It's a very big beast.

Xtina Lefebvre: Very big beast.

Derrick Hall: It's a beast of a beast.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hmm.

Derrick Hall: He.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, there you go. Very nice.

Derrick Hall: Yap, yap, yap, yap. What do you have?

Xtina Lefebvre: After Anik'' sha checked with. Let me start again. After

Derrick Hall: No.

Xtina Lefebvre: I need to restart again. Again

Derrick Hall: No.

Xtina Lefebvre: after

Derrick Hall: What's

Xtina Lefebvre: any

Derrick Hall: taking

Xtina Lefebvre: kid checked.

Derrick Hall: so long?

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh, my goodness. And after an exit checked that the animals were secured and had wept. The proof of her tantrum into a corner, she allowed Togo to drag her out and latch the barn door.

Derrick Hall: I'm sorry. I'm an asshole. I'm sorry about that.

Xtina Lefebvre: You're not sorry or are you just sorry that people think you are? No.

Derrick Hall: I'm not. I worked hard for my asshole status.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. Okay. So if she's getting dragged out of the barn, is there some sort of disaster coming? Or is she just really pissed off and doesn't want to leave?

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. That thing. I'm not supposed to give context.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm. It raises

Xtina Lefebvre: I

Derrick Hall: questions. Let's put it that

Xtina Lefebvre: think

Derrick Hall: way.

Xtina Lefebvre: that's good.

Derrick Hall: Makes me want to know the context.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, that's good.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. All right. Now the point of the show and our favorite game. Each week we roll aid d20, which helps us randomly choose from our perpetual list of 20 scenarios, and then we talk about how it would affect our made up worlds. Stina, are you ready?

Xtina Lefebvre: Of course.

Derrick Hall: Cool.

Xtina Lefebvre: Drum roll, please.

Derrick Hall: Let's see here. 16. What if someone close to your main character died?

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. Well, that happens all the time in your book.

Derrick Hall: Hey. You're not wrong, but rude.

Xtina Lefebvre: All right. Let's for you. Because you're in the middle of. Trying to write this other book, this other story in your world.

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: What

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: if. Right now, right this second, where you have in this story somebody critical to your character died. How would that change the end of the next story?

Derrick Hall: Currently in book three. If someone important right now were to drop dead. Is that what you're asking?

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: Honestly, it depends on who it was.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: Because I'm like 12 chapters in and I've already put somebody in the ICU, so. That's tricky. It honestly depends on who it is. There's certain characters that if they got offed, it wouldn't really be a story breaking event. But at the same time, there are other characters, not main characters, but like. Main. If side characters, if something happened to them, that would be a drastically different book. Just because of what is going on in the story. So. I find the cat's out of the bag. You done told everybody I

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay.

Derrick Hall: have an tendency to kill off main characters. Maybe not main characters, but main character. Adjacent characters.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. You're not George R.R. Martin, but

Derrick Hall: No,

Xtina Lefebvre: your quote,

Derrick Hall: no,

Xtina Lefebvre: your

Derrick Hall: I'm

Xtina Lefebvre: adjacent.

Derrick Hall: not posting a picture of the cast on Twitter and going, Who's your favorite? And everyone going, It's

Xtina Lefebvre: It's.

Derrick Hall: a trap! That's not me. I remember when he did that for the TV show in season six and the absolute uproar that ensued. I'm not that evil. Some people out there. You know, who I'm talking about would disagree, but I'm not actually that evil. If somebody dies, it serves a purpose in the story. So.

Xtina Lefebvre: You're close but not that evil.

Derrick Hall: I'm not that evil. I didn't say I was innocent. I'm just not that evil.

Xtina Lefebvre: So.

Derrick Hall: I don't eat babies or anything. Yeah, I don't it really depends on who it is. So I don't really want to get into names, give anything away. But, um.

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay. We ask you this

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: for the reader.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: How does it change the story to see someone close to your M.C. die? What does it do for them or to them? Or for the story?

Derrick Hall: If I'm doing my job right, they're invested enough in that character that they hate me for it.

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay. But what's it do for

Derrick Hall: But

Xtina Lefebvre: the

Derrick Hall: as

Xtina Lefebvre: story

Derrick Hall: far as. Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: for them experiencing the story?

Derrick Hall: I think if you're going to kill off a main character or a main character adjacent as an author, you have to. Make it worth the pain. Meaning. Don't just kill somebody off for shock value. Make it. Serve the plot. Even if it's not a particularly obvious way how it does that. Make it serve the plot. So. I killed off a character. That pushed the plot forward in several different ways. But the main one that I did it for wasn't actually the main plot. It was a side plot for one of the characters. It served the main plot as well, but it also served a subplot just as much, if not more. In helping to develop another character's arc and storyline. So. It needs to serve the story. if I kill somebody off, the the reader'll be mad at me because they're invested if I did my job right. But at the same time, I they might not understand it right away. But I want them to eventually see the. It was necessary for the main story, for the plot to help everyone else grow, if that makes sense. Like pruning back a rosebush.

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay.

Derrick Hall: You know, you trim it back so it'll grow better, basically.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh.

Derrick Hall: Or a fruit

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: tree.

Xtina Lefebvre: So I think that's a good point, is that if you're going to kill, if you have a singular AMC in your story and you're going to, as a writer, kill one of their. Close people off.

Derrick Hall: Party members.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yes.

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: I

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: think that your story better make that death affect your M.S..

Derrick Hall: Yes.

Xtina Lefebvre: You can't just kill off characters because. You got bored with the character. You can't just kill a character because you don't know how to take the character.

Derrick Hall: Yep.

Xtina Lefebvre: MARTIN And

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: you got you've you've got to make it affect deeply or it's substantial. It's not the word I'm looking for either, but in a significant way, not only to the movie, but to the story.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm. And I'm personally of the opinion that if a character does not significantly impact the plot or play a noticeable and prolonged role in the story overall. They should not be named.

Xtina Lefebvre: They should not be named. I agree with you there.

Derrick Hall: Hot take. But I've seen a lot of books lately and stories I say lately, in the last five years or so where.

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay.

Derrick Hall: A character will show up for two or three chapters. They have a name, they have a back story, they have all of this stuff, and then poof, they're dead.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Derrick Hall: And you're like, Wait, why did I spend that all that time getting to know them if they're just, you know, cannon fodder, as it were?

Xtina Lefebvre: So

Derrick Hall: Oh.

Xtina Lefebvre: I think I would agree with you, but that I'll take it. I will. I'll I'll give it a caveat.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: So what you don't want to have happen In your story, is that your you keep calling someone. The storekeeper. The storekeeper. The storekeeper.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I mean, because from a third person ltd point of view, they're not going to call the person if they know their name storekeeper. So

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: you might give them a name, but you made a point. Don't give them a back story.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: You know.

Derrick Hall: So. Toward the end of Book One building, right up to the climax of Qetran Odyssey, the big final battle and all of that. I have my main party essentially sneaking through a military camp and they get caught at one point and. They get noticed by a soldier. He gets killed in the space of I think he's exists in less than two pages of the book. He is not named. But at the same time, I have had people tell me that his death made them cry.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh, interesting.

Derrick Hall: So you don't have to give a back story. You don't have to have a name. You don't have to have, you know, Fazekas, son of fuzzy wig, son of whatever genealogy. He has eight sisters and four brothers and a pet pig. It's just a guy in the wrong place at the wrong time who looked the wrong way. But sometimes that's all you need.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, yeah. If, if. If you wanted to add. Oh, what's the word? A heaviness at that moment.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: You need to kill somebody off gracefully, if that's what you're trying to do.

Derrick Hall: Yes. It was less

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay.

Derrick Hall: than graceful, but. Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: No, no, no. You wrote it gracefully. Okay.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm. Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: So

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: that it affected people.

Derrick Hall: Yes.

Xtina Lefebvre: Does it? It doesn't matter. The method of death. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking

Derrick Hall: Minotaur

Xtina Lefebvre: about.

Derrick Hall: to the chest sucks.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. I'm talking about the feelings you emoted from your readers. you did

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: that in a graceful way.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. So in that case, it was mostly done for emotional impact to kind of drive home the. Seriousness of the situation for everyone else involved.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: But it's not necessarily something that has to be. You don't have to be attached to people. The reader does not have to be attached to a death for it to matter. But when they are attached, it Sure as hell had better matter. Or. It's not going to work. It's going to

Xtina Lefebvre: I

Derrick Hall: feel

Xtina Lefebvre: can tell.

Derrick Hall: extraneous and excessive. And. But why?

Xtina Lefebvre: So one of my pet peeves, one of the things I hate is when you're watching a movie and all of these people die around the M.S. and their gang

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: just to show that the bad guy is a bad guy. You know,

Derrick Hall: Yup.

Xtina Lefebvre: you just see people dying left and right.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hundreds of them

Derrick Hall: I'm

Xtina Lefebvre: that.

Derrick Hall: not a fan of purposeless red shirts.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. That's a great way to say it. at the end of the movie, I'm like, okay, so this one person is alive now, but 300 people died so they could be alive.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: And I'm like, why? Why does this person deserve to be alive more than

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: the other three hundred people?

Derrick Hall: What makes them special?

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: in situations like that, you kind of leave the reader or the viewer or, you know, whatever the perspective is, the media consuming individual. With almost a sense of survivor's guilt.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: It's like, why? Why?

Xtina Lefebvre: Good point. Good point.

Derrick Hall: Why me? Why them? Why not? You know, why did they die? And like I said last episode, I've been on kind of a World War Two movie drama kick, and that's kind of a noticeable theme in a lot of them is survivor's guilt. So maybe that's why I'm hooked on this. But yeah, it's a thing like even reading a book, you know, everybody dies. And in that one character you didn't really like makes it. And you're like, Why?

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, why?

Derrick Hall: yeah. What about your world? What would this do with a nick show or any of her party members?

Xtina Lefebvre: So at this point in Enix's life, she's never actually had to experience someone close to her dying.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: And so someone will die by the end of the book. But it is being used to propel her forward. she can't just sit on her laurels anymore. She can't just sit back and watch the world go by or. Bad things happen. So the death is used as a way to propel her forward.

Derrick Hall: As it should be.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm. I mean, I don't know what else to say. I don't know which one of us wrote the question,

Derrick Hall: I don't

Xtina Lefebvre: however

Derrick Hall: either.

Xtina Lefebvre: long ago.

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: sometimes I move The questions

Derrick Hall: Fair

Xtina Lefebvre: around

Derrick Hall: enough.

Xtina Lefebvre: just to.

Derrick Hall: Just to mess with me. Yeah, we know.

Xtina Lefebvre: Just to mess with you. Just to mess with the numbers? Yep.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. I I'm a firm believer that a death in a book, a movie, a story, the hell, a song, whatever it is, should mean something.

Xtina Lefebvre: I agree.

Derrick Hall: And whether or not it means something and how that meaning is portrayed can set the tone. Significantly.

Xtina Lefebvre: I mean, if you think of if you think of Terminator, right, this guy comes across right across time and

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: he lands and he's only killed like three people. And we're scared for that. AMC forgot her name right now. We

Derrick Hall: Sarah

Xtina Lefebvre: are. So

Derrick Hall: Connor.

Xtina Lefebvre: thank you. We're so scared for Sarah Connor. And only three people had to die so far.

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: You

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: know,

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: it was done so well. The intensity now, as if he had come through the world, started just gunning down people left and right. I don't think it affected me to the same.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. It wouldn't be as menacing.

Xtina Lefebvre: No.

Derrick Hall: There's something about the quiet and methodical serial killer. That is so much more menacing than guns blazing in a crowd.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: It's more calculated. It's more specific. And yeah, it does make a big difference. So I mentioned music as an example. You have Queen and Bohemian Rhapsody where in the

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: first section it's. Mama just killed a man and it's got that weight to it. And you feel it and you feel bad for this guy going. He knows he's screwed up and is torn apart by it. And then you get Johnny Cash and Folsom Prison Blues and shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. It's almost flippant.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, I shot the sheriff.

Derrick Hall: That is flippant,

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: but I didn't shoot the deputy.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: So like, just, I mean, that's kind of a drastic contrast, but it makes a point

Xtina Lefebvre: For.

Derrick Hall: because one of them you feel the emotion and the other one is just like, Yeah, I did a thing. I was curious. So, you know.

Xtina Lefebvre: So the hard part was trying to decide who to kill off

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: because I know that somebody needs to die at a certain point in the story and

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: everybody that reads my book in the future, yeah, somebody dies, gets out of the back.

Derrick Hall: No.

Xtina Lefebvre: But choosing who's

Derrick Hall: Tanya to

Xtina Lefebvre: going

Derrick Hall: be expected,

Xtina Lefebvre: to die.

Derrick Hall: though.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yes, choosing who's going to die. What

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: is is far more difficult than I thought it would be, because I had thought it would be this person. And then I thought, no, maybe it should be this person because it means this.

Derrick Hall: See.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: See, being evil is hard.

Xtina Lefebvre: Being evil is hard. Yes.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. I

Xtina Lefebvre: Yes.

Derrick Hall: had the same problem with the first book because I didn't want to kill who I killed. I'm not going to spoil it for anybody that hasn't read it. I didn't want to kill who I killed in the first book. I didn't want to kill who I killed in the second book. And in this third book, I know who's going to die. I just haven't gotten there yet, and I don't really want to do that either. And I have a few fans out there. You're probably listening and know who you are. Hi. Who have made guesses as to who it's going to be and they're all wrong. But I know who I'm going to kill and it's still going to matter. But

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: it's just. It's hard. It's hard because you write these characters for so long. In my case, I'm three books in, and by the time I'm done, it'll be close to half a million words worth. And. It hurts. You get attached.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: I.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: I wrote the death in the first book, and I didn't write for three days because I was so torn up about it.

Xtina Lefebvre: You know, you're not the first writer who has told me this, so I'm not looking forward to writing this scene.

Derrick Hall: Make sure your bar is stocked

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: before you write that scene. You're going to need it.

Xtina Lefebvre: I will because I am a sap. SAP. I mean, I cry at Hallmark movies. I'm a sap.

Derrick Hall: That is bad.

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm aware.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. Now I have something else to pick on you for.

Xtina Lefebvre: I've got so many things.

Derrick Hall: You know, one more for the list. Well, do we have anything else to say on this matter?

Xtina Lefebvre: Um, one thing.

Derrick Hall: Okay.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, that was fun.

Derrick Hall: Did you, cheater?

Xtina Lefebvre: If you're a woman, if you're a world builder, newbie or not, and I'd like to be on our show, we would love to have you. That includes D and D, RPG game masters, writers, authors, bloggers. Do they have bloggers anymore

Derrick Hall: It's

Xtina Lefebvre: of

Derrick Hall: a breed.

Xtina Lefebvre: bloggers?

Derrick Hall: Hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: Right. Anybody? of you. Anyone?

Derrick Hall: filmmakers. If you are creative and make worlds, come

Xtina Lefebvre: Please come join us so you can let us know by going to our website. What if South is ABC.com? You can leave this message there on our Facebook page. We'd love to have more warm bodies, not dead

Derrick Hall: Yes.

Xtina Lefebvre: bodies. Warm

Derrick Hall: Yes.

Xtina Lefebvre: bodies.

Derrick Hall: was a weird movie.

Xtina Lefebvre: No.

Derrick Hall: Also, we're always interested in what if questions to add to our list. If your world has something interesting about it and you would like to pose it to us to see how it plays out in our worlds, we would love to hear from you. So, Xtina where can folks find you on the great wide interwebs?

Xtina Lefebvre: My website is uniquely nidcom, but I can be found on just about any of the socials as uniquely Christina But I'm mostly on Facebook and TikTok.

Derrick Hall: And my Web site is Derrick Hall, author .com. But you can find me as D Hall author pretty much anywhere I am most active on Facebook and I'm trying to get back into tik tok I just don't have time for it. Ironically enough. Tech talk.

Xtina Lefebvre: Tip top.

Derrick Hall: I'd also like to add

Xtina Lefebvre: Duck.

Derrick Hall: that we are extending

Xtina Lefebvre: Duck, duck.

Derrick Hall: our

Xtina Lefebvre: Duck, duck.

Derrick Hall: anniversary giveaway and trees just a little bit. No end date on that yet, but if you haven't gotten in on it, go to our Facebook page. Drop us a line or a follow and comment on the first pinned post, letting us know which episode so far has been your favorite. There's some goodies on the line.

Xtina Lefebvre: Or

Derrick Hall: So.

Xtina Lefebvre: let us know which one you've listened to. Yes.

Derrick Hall: Hey, we're not checking the validity of your statement. Just give us the title of an episode.

Xtina Lefebvre: Of an episode.

Derrick Hall: Just name an episode. That's all I want.

Xtina Lefebvre: That's it. Just any

Derrick Hall: Validation.

Xtina Lefebvre: name. Well, has

Derrick Hall: That's

Xtina Lefebvre: to be.

Derrick Hall: all we want.

Xtina Lefebvre: It has to be a valid episode name. But yes, that's all we need.

Derrick Hall: You know. Right. Get in on that. There's some goodies on the line. We've got a set of a seven piece set of dice and very likely a autographed copy of one of my books. So if you're interested in that, take care of that. Get her done and

Xtina Lefebvre: You

Derrick Hall: we

Xtina Lefebvre: do that?

Derrick Hall: will catch you guys next time. On What If South is up?

Xtina Lefebvre: Thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you. Think, think, think, think. Thank you. But on pompom. Thank you.

Derrick Hall: God, you're weird.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.