What If: Archeological Anthropology

This week we adventure into the bowels of the earth and talk about what our worlds would look like if our main characters and societies lived underground.

Last of the Breed - Louis L'amour - Highly recommended story of a Sioux/Cheyenne Cold War-era American fighter pilot shot down over Soviet Russia and his struggle to follow the ancient migration path of the Native Americans to get home. 10/10 - Derrick

Derrick is a working photographer and author of the Crimson Prophecy series, consisting of The Trials of Tiarsus, Berylis, Qetran Odyssey, and Qetran Revival. He can be found at his website www.DerrickHallAuthor.com.

Christina "Xtina" Lefebvre is an assemblage artist and author currently writing her first novel 'Cogs & Claws' and can be found at www.UniquelyXtina.com.   

Transcript

Derrick Hall: Hello and welcome to episode thirty-three of the What If South is Up podcast where we talk about the ups and downs of creating worlds from scratch and all the misadventures we experience along the way. In a nutshell, how to wing it like an author. My name is Derek Hall, the creator of the Crimson Prophecy and Horizon Gimlet series available on Amazon, Barnes Noble, Kobo, Smashwords and just about anywhere else you might want to find an e-book. And I am here with my freshly waterlogged co-host, Cristina Xtina Lefebvre

Xtina Lefebvre: A spoiler. So tell, though. She's my name is Christina Xtina and Lefebvre And I'm in the middle of building my first world and magical parallel earth where colonization never happened in the Americas and reworking my first novel with a working title of COGS and Claws. Mr. Derrick. What are you drinking today?

Derrick Hall: I have a concoction.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh,

Derrick Hall: That

Xtina Lefebvre: I

Derrick Hall: I

Xtina Lefebvre: love

Derrick Hall: created

Xtina Lefebvre: concoctions.

Derrick Hall: on a whim

Xtina Lefebvre: I love concoctions.

Derrick Hall: for no apparent reason. I do too. Obviously I have Sour Patch, watermelon bourbon.

Xtina Lefebvre: What it.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's

Derrick Hall: It's really good to talk

Xtina Lefebvre: like the bourbon

Derrick Hall: to.

Xtina Lefebvre: is called that. Or did you

Derrick Hall: No.

Xtina Lefebvre: create a thing? And

Derrick Hall: I

Xtina Lefebvre: this is

Derrick Hall: made

Xtina Lefebvre: what you're

Derrick Hall: it.

Xtina Lefebvre: calling it, huh?

Derrick Hall: I dissolved a bunch of sour patch watermelon candies in some bourbon

Xtina Lefebvre: Did it take

Derrick Hall: and

Xtina Lefebvre: like

Derrick Hall: it's

Xtina Lefebvre: minutes

Derrick Hall: delicious.

Xtina Lefebvre: or like hours? Did

Derrick Hall: Days.

Xtina Lefebvre: it like forever? Days?

Derrick Hall: Days, days.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh, I

Derrick Hall: It

Xtina Lefebvre: applaud

Derrick Hall: works really

Xtina Lefebvre: your

Derrick Hall: good

Xtina Lefebvre: fortitude.

Derrick Hall: with gummy bears and vodka. It works really well with regular sour patch kids and vodka. But the watermelon ones work really good with bourbon.

Xtina Lefebvre: So you puckering?

Derrick Hall: No, it's actually not sour anymore so much. But

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: you get a little bit of the sweet and you get the watermelon flavor.

Xtina Lefebvre: I do love a good watermelon flavor.

Derrick Hall: No. The like the gummy peach rings also work really well in bourbon.

Xtina Lefebvre: I love a good peach, too.

Derrick Hall: Peach and bourbon is a match made in heaven. It's good stuff.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well,

Derrick Hall: I love anything.

Xtina Lefebvre: it's.

Derrick Hall: Peach with a good bourbon.

Xtina Lefebvre: Southern Comfort is actually like a peach apricot bourbon if

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: you

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: actually look at the formula. So, you know, I love it.

Derrick Hall: Except they can't legally call it bourbon because the alcohol content is too low.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's a liquor. And if anyone tries to, I'd love

Derrick Hall: I.

Xtina Lefebvre: saying I love drinking Southern Comfort straight because everyone thinks I'm a bad ass, but it's a liquor. So whatever. I'm

Derrick Hall: It doesn't even count as hard alcohol in

Xtina Lefebvre: It's a

Derrick Hall: some

Xtina Lefebvre: look

Derrick Hall: places.

Xtina Lefebvre: core. It's fine

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: if

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: you think I'm a bad ass. I'm fine with that dude. I love the facade.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. Go drink your brandy and I'll. I'll stick to this.

Xtina Lefebvre: And I'm a fantasy writer, right? I love

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: the idea of them thinking I'm a bad ass.

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: Anyway.

Derrick Hall: It is pure fantasy. What do you what do you have this week?

Xtina Lefebvre: Nothing special. It's become kind of like a normal thing for me. It's the berries and cream with vodka, whipped vanilla vodka. And Wild Berry Seltzer. It's just.

Derrick Hall: I'm going to have to try that.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, it's not that there's so much special. As much as I went to the liquor store and I was in a hurry, we just had a snowstorm, and I had to go check our Airbnb, the driveway, because someone staying there was in a hurry. And I had to work a little bit late. And my husband's not feeling well because he got his flu shot yesterday. And

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm just rushing around and I'm not even thinking, oh, my gosh, I need to up Derrick

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: in the drink

Derrick Hall: Hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: tonight a concoction department. So I failed and I just got my normal stuff. I just went to my normal shelf pick my normal stuff. But yes. So that's what I have tonight is berries and cream.

Derrick Hall: That

Xtina Lefebvre: So

Derrick Hall: is completely

Xtina Lefebvre: there you

Derrick Hall: fair.

Xtina Lefebvre: go. Thank

Derrick Hall: I

Xtina Lefebvre: you.

Derrick Hall: will say. I will say that if you can find proper hard core moonshine, good old Mountain Dew, the proper old school. White lightning moonshine and dissolve a bunch of skittles in it. It's really fucking good.

Xtina Lefebvre: My mouth is slavering just thinking about it. I might like that one.

Derrick Hall: That's actually it's really good. It goes down like candy. You don't realize you're getting drunk until it's too late.

Xtina Lefebvre: I love those. Love it.

Derrick Hall: Oh, I do too. They're dangerous, but I love them. And what have you been reading or watching?

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, let's see. Oh, I actually finished something. Yay! Small applause. Okay, I

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: finished MC. Lindsey's the unfortunate legacy of Mr. Hyde. Friggin fantastic. I highly

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: recommend

Derrick Hall: Isn't it great?

Xtina Lefebvre: this. It was awesome. And I binged. Young Sheldon. It finally came on and I binged it. And there was a line in that whole thing I binged that actually blew me away. When I talk about writing, it just

Derrick Hall: Hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I actually had to pause the show and I had to stop and think about this. And the young Sheldon character says that he was referring to how superheroes become super, super heroes. And

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: it's all about overcoming their worst fear.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: And it just made me stop. I literally stopped the show and started at it, pulled out a notebook. How do I get my character to be a superhero? What is her greatest fear and how can I show that? How can I represent that? How can I show that she's become a superhero because she overcome overcame that worst fear. So that was actually something unexpected from that show.

Derrick Hall: Yeah, absolutely.

Xtina Lefebvre: So that was interesting. What? You. You got anything interesting to share?

Derrick Hall: Well, I'm finally done with Cradle. It's

Xtina Lefebvre: You

Derrick Hall: over.

Xtina Lefebvre: were last time. Yeah.

Derrick Hall: I

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh.

Derrick Hall: know it's done, but I've started new things. And I am. I am reading. The inside of my eyelids because my brain won't work.

Xtina Lefebvre: I hate when that happens.

Derrick Hall: I know. Everything just disappeared.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: Now I am reading a. I don't remember the exact title of the book, but it is the chronological like release order first book of the Witcher series

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh.

Derrick Hall: because there were prequels and things written later and that go first in the timeline. And I've had people arguing about read it in timeline in order to read it and release order. And I finally just decided I'm reading it in release order. So I've started on that and it was translated from Romanian, I think,

Xtina Lefebvre: Really?

Derrick Hall: or Czech or something like that, because that's the language it was originally written in. So it's a little bit clunky in places, but I'm having fun with it.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh,

Derrick Hall: It's really good.

Xtina Lefebvre: fascinating.

Derrick Hall: Yup. And as for watching, I haven't really been watching anything. I haven't had time,

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: but the occasional episode or two of something familiar, which recently has tended to be home improvement.

Xtina Lefebvre: Really?

Derrick Hall: Yeah. I love

Xtina Lefebvre: Huh?

Derrick Hall: home improvement. Cracks me up

Xtina Lefebvre: Huh?

Derrick Hall: every time.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, I like that better than his second show, which was. Oh,

Derrick Hall: Last man standing. And I love that

Xtina Lefebvre: yeah.

Derrick Hall: one, too.

Xtina Lefebvre: I do not like that one. Sorry.

Derrick Hall: A lot of people don't.

Xtina Lefebvre: I am not a fan. Nope. I was of like the first season. Then afterwards it took a detour and I was like, Man, I'm done with

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: this.

Derrick Hall: I love Tim Allen. I've always loved Tim Allen. So.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. I was just watching with hubby over this, over the holidays. We were watching the Santa the Santa Clauses.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: He's got two seasons of the Santa Clauses. It's just it's just braindead, dumb fun. So anyways, moving on. So what other problems have you encounter in cantered? No. Encountered and or

Derrick Hall: I

Xtina Lefebvre: solved?

Derrick Hall: am not a horse.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: I don't canter anywhere.

Xtina Lefebvre: It might be fun. Okay.

Derrick Hall: I get along well with a decanter because that involves booze.

Xtina Lefebvre: What have you decanted lately? Okay, we're ready to

Derrick Hall: She?

Xtina Lefebvre: be able to cover that. All right. What other problems have you encountered and are solved since our last episode?

Derrick Hall: My current issue is simply finding time to even work on my story, let alone actually solve any of my lingering issues.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm.

Derrick Hall: And shortly behind that on the list, I've been fighting the urge to start completely new things and haven't been entirely successful as our little critique group can attest. Because I've been throwing things in there, so I haven't

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: really done anything, but my life has been crazy. Like I said before, I started a new job and I've got a lot of stuff going on and I'm just trying to settle into a new schedule before I dove too deeply back into the book.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hey.

Derrick Hall: What

Xtina Lefebvre: Valid.

Derrick Hall: about you?

Xtina Lefebvre: Totally valid. Totally

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: valid. Yeah. Totally valid. Okay. So, um. As everyone who is a longtime listener knows, I've started reworking my outline and I'm still working on it. And recently I was kind of swimming to some of my favorite author slash mentor podcasters, some of the podcasts, and I decided to try to put into words. But something is called the big dramatic question. Have you heard of this? The big, dramatic question.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: So this is the question that answers the why in the story. You know, it basically encapsulates the theme or the gist of the story. For instance, The Hunger Games, the empty queue. The major dramatic question is, will Katniss survive The Hunger Games? And with these one, two, three, four, five, six words, right? We know the answer going to be yes. Every dramatic question should you know, we all know it's going to be asked, but it helps the author with these six words, be kind of boiled down the story to its vital components, like Will Katniss survive? So we know the stakes are pretty high, right? Well,

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: she

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: survives this. This means that the stakes are fairly steep. The Hunger Games. So what does a game have to do with surviving? What's hunger have to do with it? So this dramatic question will Katniss Surviving Hunger Games really, really encapsulates that story. So I've been trying to encapsulate my story in such a question. So I've been working on my empty queue and it turns out it's not as easy as one would think.

Derrick Hall: No, it's not.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's not as easy as one would think. But but how I'm going to use it is I'm going to keep this in each one of my scenes as a bullet point. How does this scene. Sideline impact affect trends, Trent? Touch this question. And if the scene can't somehow tie into this major dramatic question that I developed, which I shall not share, because it would be a spoiler, then that scene needs to be reworked. So

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm doing some deep diving into my outlining in that method, but

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: that's been pretty enlightening. But that's what I've

Derrick Hall: Are

Xtina Lefebvre: been

Derrick Hall: you

Xtina Lefebvre: working

Derrick Hall: building

Xtina Lefebvre: on.

Derrick Hall: a separate? Well, you only have the one POV, don't you?

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm. So I'm fighting with that because in for the most part, when you talk about a Y, a novel, they typically are in one P.O.V..

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: And but I would like to add a couple other POVs to my story for four reasons.

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: And

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: um, if I do it, I risk losing my y a. Hmm. genre Because some of the other POVs, I'd like to add, are not young adults. So

Derrick Hall: Well,

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm.

Derrick Hall: you just jump from young adult to new adult, so it's not that big of a jump.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's not. But some people you'll have I actually have actually a couple other writer, author, friends and

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: some of them absolutely believe there is no such thing as a new author and others who believe you're going to go traditional. You can't say whatever and it doesn't matter. I just need to decide if it's going to suit the story or not, if

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: it's going to make my story better or not to have these other viewpoints. And at the same time, what I'm doing is I'm saying, okay, I'd really like to add this viewpoint, but maybe I do like you did, which is that this viewpoint becomes its own novella instead of

Derrick Hall: Right?

Xtina Lefebvre: adding it to my story. So.

Derrick Hall: Right. Well, like in the case of Tiarsus I did have a a handful of chapters from his point of view in the first book.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: But then the novella and told his back story

Xtina Lefebvre: Yep.

Derrick Hall: leading up to what happened in the book. Stuff

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm

Derrick Hall: that

Xtina Lefebvre: hmm.

Derrick Hall: I couldn't really find a place to put in the main book because it just it just didn't fit.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: But I had that character and it was it was enough for the story and for the book, but it wasn't enough for me.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: So I

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: went and wrote more.

Xtina Lefebvre: And I think that's what I might be doing, because I just want to tell all these character stories because, you know, I just understand them so well. But we'll see. We'll see. But that is that's what I was working on. And sorry to bore everybody with my, you know, story structure, plotter mentality,

Derrick Hall: Boring.

Xtina Lefebvre: but that's what I was doing. Okay.

Derrick Hall: It's not boring at all.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. So that's what I've been working on. And

Derrick Hall: All

Xtina Lefebvre: I

Derrick Hall: right.

Xtina Lefebvre: just got to say that I actually hit a point where I figured something out and I'm just like, it's exploding. I'm just like, Oh, my gosh, this just this. This is the thing that has been holding. Yeah, I'm really excited

Derrick Hall: It's

Xtina Lefebvre: about

Derrick Hall: not

Xtina Lefebvre: where

Derrick Hall: the best

Xtina Lefebvre: my outline

Derrick Hall: feeling.

Xtina Lefebvre: is. It is such a relief. It's like a pressure valve. It's.

Derrick Hall: Yup.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's fascinating.

Derrick Hall: As for the extra POVs my advice would be just go ahead and write them and you can always cut them in editing.

Xtina Lefebvre: I you know, you're not wrong, you know? And I just got to figure out what's important to this story. All I know is that if I do include another P.O.V., if I do that, P.O.V. will be nothing about that person. That P.O.V. will only be about an extra. It's about

Derrick Hall: Hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: how they react to her, how they interact with her, her story, her back, whatever it is.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: But if I have any other POVs, it will always be about an extra story. It'll. It will never change.

Derrick Hall: Yep. Lots of stories can intersect in a lot of different ways.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: All right. Every week, we like to share one sentence from our current works in progress. A single sentence with no context. And in this case, very dead.

Xtina Lefebvre: Very.

Derrick Hall: Are you ready

Xtina Lefebvre: Dad,

Derrick Hall: for dead

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm.

Derrick Hall: darlings?

Xtina Lefebvre: I'm ready to share my

Derrick Hall: All

Xtina Lefebvre: dead,

Derrick Hall: right.

Xtina Lefebvre: darling. Dun dun. The.

Derrick Hall: What's you

Xtina Lefebvre: The

Derrick Hall: got?

Xtina Lefebvre: closest. Oh. The closer she got to home. The heavier each footfall became. Like gravity itself was like gravity itself was trying to protect her from the truth.

Derrick Hall: Who? Ominous.

Xtina Lefebvre: Don't, don't, don't. What? You. What you got over here?

Derrick Hall: It's not his eyes that are shallow. It's his intellect.

Xtina Lefebvre: Is that dead or alive?

Derrick Hall: I don't know. It's one of those random, like, little projects that I started.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hmm.

Derrick Hall: I don't even know if I'm going to finish it. So

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm.

Derrick Hall: TBD. But.

Xtina Lefebvre: TBD.

Derrick Hall: TBD.

Xtina Lefebvre: Duncan Dahl. Okay. All right, enough of that.

Derrick Hall: Fair enough.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh, shoot. I need to get my dice out. Where's my dice? Okay. Now onto the point of our show and our favorite game. Each week we roll d20. To help us randomly choose from a perpetual list of 20 scenarios. And then we talk about how it would affect our made up ad hoc

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: world. Mr. Hall. Are you ready?

Derrick Hall: Bring it on.

Xtina Lefebvre: All right.

Xtina Lefebvre: she rolls. She's rolling, and it comes out to 12. What's

Derrick Hall: All

Xtina Lefebvre: 12?

Derrick Hall: right. What if your characters lived underground?

Xtina Lefebvre: This gives me Clan of the Cave Bears vibe. I don't know why. But what if my characters lived underground? Hmm.

Derrick Hall: I actually do have some characters that live underground,

Xtina Lefebvre: You have some.

Derrick Hall: not my main characters,

Xtina Lefebvre: But.

Derrick Hall: but I have some.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, what if your main characters were from that world and not the world they are from?

Derrick Hall: Oh. I have a feeling a lot of them would be a lot paler. Pasty white.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: diets and things would be different. Food would be different because of what you can grow underground. Culture would be different. A lot of things would change, like the the social structure in and of itself I think would change. It would change

Xtina Lefebvre: Why?

Derrick Hall: to. Well, you're living underground. You're either living in a natural cave system or you're probably expanding on a natural cave system, which means lots of physical labor. So your society is going to evolve to favor. The strong and hardworking

Xtina Lefebvre: So why do

Derrick Hall: more

Xtina Lefebvre: you think underground

Derrick Hall: than.

Xtina Lefebvre: would require much more more physical labor?

Derrick Hall: You have to get water, which is going to involve some sort of. What's the word I'm looking for?

Xtina Lefebvre: Aqua First

Derrick Hall: Some

Xtina Lefebvre: Marquis.

Derrick Hall: sort of mechanical system. Typically, the water you find underground in caves is not safe to drink. So you're going to have to filter it or purify it somehow or find another source of water.

Xtina Lefebvre: Wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't know this fact. Tell me why.

Derrick Hall: Bacteria mostly. And extremely

Xtina Lefebvre: Because the sun

Derrick Hall: high,

Xtina Lefebvre: doesn't

Derrick Hall: minimal

Xtina Lefebvre: kill it.

Derrick Hall: tone, right? Yes. And extremely high mineral content.

Xtina Lefebvre: Huh?

Derrick Hall: Which

Xtina Lefebvre: Okay.

Derrick Hall: means that you then have problems like kidney stones. So water would be an issue. You would have to have a infrastructure. That's what I was looking for to purify water or bring water in. You did have to have some sort of infrastructure to. Grow food

Xtina Lefebvre: Well.

Derrick Hall: underground. You're not going to have a whole lot of livestock in a cave. Just the methane emissions alone would be a massive danger. So you're going to be dealing with things that you can grow in a somewhat dark, generally damp environment, which is going to be a lot of mushrooms and things like that, unless you have an above ground area or some magical means of growing normal crops underground. Which fantasy world? Totally possible.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: Beyond that, if you're working on a newer society, you're going to need the ability to expand your environment. As the society grows, as your population grows, you're going to have to dig tunnels, dig more caverns, connect existing caves and caverns, things like that. And in general, your society as a whole, in my opinion, would lean more and develop more and favor more physical strength.

Xtina Lefebvre: Her.

Derrick Hall: So over time, you're going to end up with a very stocky, hardy kind of people because that's what's favored and that's what's needed. Whereas aboveground, it broadens a little bit because you don't need as much of that physical strength and physical labor on a daily basis. And you can spread the society out a little bit more and lean a little bit more to specialized trades and get like you have your farmers, you have your soldiers, you have your, you know your miller, your wheelers, your, you know, whatever, your intellectuals, your artists, things like that. Once your society is established enough to support a. I hesitate to say unnecessary, but that's the word that's coming to mind. Skill set. Yeah, that's that's kind of where that would go. So the world itself, the culture would be very different. And a lot of that logic is, at least in part, why you see a lot of underground cultures tending to be dervish. Short. Stocky, very strong.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well. So that's only if you assume that

Derrick Hall: Look.

Xtina Lefebvre: that that species of people would need the same nutritional elements as humans

Derrick Hall: Right?

Xtina Lefebvre: do.

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: If they don't need as much water, they don't have to go get as much water.

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: If they don't need as much sunlight, then they you know what I mean? They wouldn't

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: need to compensate for that. Um,

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: I think that if I had chosen a nature to live in. And, you know, live underground versus in the Alaskan tundra. Things that I would change in my story would be how they how they track time.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: Their life wouldn't be tied to the seasons as much know it my story.

Derrick Hall: Known because a certain depth underground you have a constant temperature.

Xtina Lefebvre: It would cause a temperature and a constant level of light wherever

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: that source of light is.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I would guess. I would guess that living underground. The tilt of the earth, toward or away from the sun would not change, you know, the level of light under

Derrick Hall: No,

Xtina Lefebvre: the ground.

Derrick Hall: it wasn't.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, it depends on the source. I mean, if it was crystals

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: that are that are, you know, reflecting light, it could.

Derrick Hall: Right. But I

Xtina Lefebvre: But.

Derrick Hall: don't think your average bioluminescent fungus is going to care.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah, I would agree. However, we don't know how much they know.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: And I also think it's really interesting that when we talk about DNA or genetics. Mushrooms are. Humans are closer to each other than either one is to plants.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: So

Derrick Hall: That's

Xtina Lefebvre: you were talking

Derrick Hall: terrifying.

Xtina Lefebvre: about using. It's terrifying. You're talking about using mushrooms as a source for nutrients. But what if mushrooms were how the people evolved? What if they were evolved from mushrooms? And so they're humanoid mushrooms. And, you know, how would that. You know, affect their decision making, their politics, whatever, you know,

Derrick Hall: My underground

Xtina Lefebvre: because.

Derrick Hall: world has carnivorous mushrooms.

Xtina Lefebvre: So they're eating humans which are closer to the DNA to them than plants are. So they're almost cannibalistic in that sense.

Derrick Hall: Well, I mean, they don't discriminate.

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah. So I think this is fascinating. It would. It's so. Even so, even if I were to tell the same story, a young girl is just trying to find a way to fit in because she lacks a skill that everybody else has.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: Basic. Just take that premise. Now I take her for the Alaska tundra and I put her underground. The things that would change would, you know, would be like I had previously mentioned, how they measure time, the lack of seasons and how they measure. Annual time, you know how they measure

Derrick Hall: Oh, yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: longer lengths of time. The the laws or the morals that would be put into place. it would just. Profoundly change the backdrop of my story.

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: I don't I don't think this particular thing would change my story. It would just extremely change the backdrop and the rules that I have set up for my world.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: Even you know, I still think that my characters would would go to university. I still think my characters, you know, would have children. I still think my characters would want to have or would respect obligation to community. I still think they would respect. The Earth, you know, the planet.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: It would just be on what degree they would understand it. It would be fascinating to actually build a huge world wherever but in a book. Right.

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: This

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: is this is the world and how we want to live. And then throw a surface dweller down there.

Derrick Hall: Oh, yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: And now not like not like 30. Not like what is it? Middle of the journey to the middle of the earth where you have the surfer drillers going down to the middle of the earth and trying to figure out what's going on, but actually set it set the whole story. As a person living in, you know, underground and now they

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: suddenly

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: have, you know, a surface dweller and they try to figure out, where did you cover? There's nobody loose on the surface. What are you talking about? You're lying. You can't live under the sun. You would die,

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: you know. That would be a fascinating story.

Derrick Hall: That would be fun.

Xtina Lefebvre: Hmm.

Derrick Hall: Another one to add to the list for later.

Xtina Lefebvre: Another book to add to the list.

Derrick Hall: Yep.

Xtina Lefebvre: You are not wrong.

Derrick Hall: In about ten years when I actually finished Crimson Prophecy.

Xtina Lefebvre: Ditto. Friggin ditto.

Derrick Hall: Right? No, I mean, that's it's actually an interesting question. I feel like we went through it really quick, but it poses a lot of questions and we both have very different. Angles on it.

Xtina Lefebvre: I think it shows that not only is the point of view, which we talked about early in this episode, episode this episode will be talked about in this episode earlier is important to how the story traverses. But I think the setting is also. Extremely important in how your character relates to that setting gives so much

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: ambiance atmosphere to the story.

Derrick Hall: Yeah. So for my first book, I dropped Enara into a completely different continent that she's never seen or been to before. And knows nothing about.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: So everything was

Xtina Lefebvre: But.

Derrick Hall: fresh, new and bright and different.

Xtina Lefebvre: So the things that would be new in a new continent would be culture, would be whether

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: would

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: be culture, whether ethics.

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: Right.

Derrick Hall: hmm. Topography,

Xtina Lefebvre: But.

Derrick Hall: geography, wildlife, plants,

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: all of it. It's.

Xtina Lefebvre: But there's a huge difference between the Sahara Desert in the rainforest

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: versus

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: the typical place on the surface of the earth and 10,000 leagues under the surface of the earth.

Derrick Hall: Oh, yeah,

Xtina Lefebvre: It's.

Derrick Hall: absolutely. It'd be really hot down there, for starters. But yeah, even

Xtina Lefebvre: But.

Derrick Hall: just even just in a single continent. So you look at North America, you've got the far reaches of Alaska, and then you have the deserts of southern Mexico,

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm

Derrick Hall: like

Xtina Lefebvre: hmm.

Derrick Hall: going into rainforest and craziness. And then you've got like the East Coast where you are. That's completely different. You've got the intermountain west where I am, that's completely different. And that's all just one continent. So dropping a character into a new continent doesn't mean that everything's going to be the same.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm

Derrick Hall: Even

Xtina Lefebvre: hmm.

Derrick Hall: culturally, it's. It's nuts, depending on where you go. I have desert

Xtina Lefebvre: Yeah.

Derrick Hall: cultures and I have like coastal fishing kind of cultures and bigger cities that rely on trade and things like that. And it's all in the same landmass, but it's all very different. And that that gamut of. Society, I think, is what helps paint an interesting picture and an interesting world. So like, even if your book takes place in the middle of nowhere. So by example, I don't know if you've ever read it. It's an older book and I think it's out of print and I don't know a whole lot of people that have read it, but

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh, God.

Derrick Hall: there's an older book set during the Cold War about a.

Xtina Lefebvre: I didn't

Derrick Hall: Spy

Xtina Lefebvre: have.

Derrick Hall: plane pilot who got shot down over Siberia. It's called The Last of the Breed, and it was written by Louis L'Amour. He's best known for Westerns, but this is not a Western.

Xtina Lefebvre: Mm hmm.

Derrick Hall: And this pilot is. He's a Native American guy. And he is on foot, surviving in the bush, finding his way back to the U.S. by way of the Aleutians. And basically following that migration path back into Alaska to get back to the U.S..

Xtina Lefebvre: Huh?

Derrick Hall: It's a fascinating book and I absolutely love it. I highly recommend it. But. From where he crashes to where he ends up at the end of the story. There's a lot of different cultures that he crosses through small villages resistance groups, military towns, like. It's a massive variety of. People and places and sights and sounds and smells and living in the woods and the winter and the summer and all this kind of stuff. And. It keeps it interesting. He's on a very linear path, going from point A to point B and, you know, that's the destination. And, you know, that's what he's trying to do. But in the process, it stays interesting specifically because of the culture.

Xtina Lefebvre: culture is fascinating to me.

Derrick Hall: Oh,

Xtina Lefebvre: If

Derrick Hall: I know.

Xtina Lefebvre: so, if I could go to school for anything, it would be. What's it called? Anthropology. Right. Is

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: a

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: story study of people

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: archeology, archeological anthropology. Think is what

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: is

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: called is what I would love to degree in. So you're studying civilizations that have died and figuring out their culture based on the evidence, that's available today. That sounds friggin fascinating to me.

Derrick Hall: Yeah,

Xtina Lefebvre: And and I think maybe a majority of fantasy writers out there and not so much sci fi, not so much literary fiction, but I would say a majority of the fantasy authors out there are intrigued by culture, whether

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: that

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: be military culture, political culture, people,

Derrick Hall: Mm hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: culture, suicide, whatever. I

Derrick Hall: Yeah,

Xtina Lefebvre: think

Derrick Hall: absolutely.

Xtina Lefebvre: that that is something that that fascinates us.

Derrick Hall: Only on the scale of the anthropological disciplines. I think my interest would go in a slightly different direction into forensic anthropology.

Xtina Lefebvre: That's what the word I was looking for. Forensic

Derrick Hall: Forensic.

Xtina Lefebvre: anthropology is absolutely something I would get a degree in today.

Derrick Hall: Mm

Xtina Lefebvre: I don't

Derrick Hall: hmm.

Xtina Lefebvre: care that I'm 100 years old, I'm not 100 years old, but I don't care that I'm near it.

Derrick Hall: Close enough.

Xtina Lefebvre: It's closer to that than the zero. So

Derrick Hall: Right.

Xtina Lefebvre: anyway.

Derrick Hall: I feel that.

Xtina Lefebvre: You feel it, but you're not that. You're just a young chicken.

Derrick Hall: Hey, it ain't the years. It's the mileage.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh,

Derrick Hall: All right. Well, that was fun.

Xtina Lefebvre: okay.

Derrick Hall: If you're a world builder, newbie or not, and would like to be on our show, we would absolutely love to have you. That includes all of you and tabletop RPG game masters, writers, authors, anyone who creates worlds. You can let us know by going to our website. What if South is up tor.com and leaving us a message? Or you can reach us through our Facebook page.

Xtina Lefebvre: And you know, we're always interested in what if questions to add to our list if the world has something interesting about it and he'd like to pose it to our world. And by the way, if you want to keep this thing secret about your world, but you just want to pose it, well, we're happy to do anonymous takes. But if you'd like to pose it to us and see how it plays out in our worlds or how we'd interpret it, we'd love to hear from you. So, Mr. Derrick, how can folks find you on the inter thingy? Webby thingy?

Derrick Hall: Well, I am an inactive lump these days just because I'm so damn busy. But my website is Derrick Hall author dot com and you can find me as Dee Hall author on just about all of the socials.

Xtina Lefebvre: Well, I am uniquely incom and I can be found on just about all the socials as uniquely Christina and I really, really, really hope to get back on to Tik Tok and do some etiquette talking to, you know, talk about what we're talking about here.

Derrick Hall: Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thanks for listening and we will catch you next time. When

Xtina Lefebvre: On.

Derrick Hall: we should have another special guest joining us

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh,

Derrick Hall: on what is

Xtina Lefebvre: yes.

Derrick Hall: now this up.

Xtina Lefebvre: Next ten.

Derrick Hall: Yeah.

Xtina Lefebvre: Next, we have another guest.

Derrick Hall: We

Xtina Lefebvre: If you

Derrick Hall: have

Xtina Lefebvre: want to

Derrick Hall: friends

Xtina Lefebvre: be a guest, we

Derrick Hall: now.

Xtina Lefebvre: guest we have friends. We were not the only friends to each other. We have other CIA.

Derrick Hall: We have friends and we drag them into doing silly things on the Internet.

Xtina Lefebvre: Oh, I love it.