Advocacy and Support for Non-Monogamy with Brett Chamberlin

Episode 104:
Advocacy and Support for Non-Monogamy with Brett Chamberlain, Executive Director for OPEN

In this episode of the Relationship Diversity Podcast, I talk with Brett Chamberlain, the executive director of OPEN, an advocacy nonprofit for polyamory and ethical non-monogamy. Brett shares his personal journey, the foundational values embedded in non-monogamy, and the significant impact it can have on society. We discuss the importance of visibility, community, and legal advocacy in advancing acceptance and rights for non-monogamous families. The conversation covers tangible steps for advocacy, OPEN's organizational strategies, and the upcoming Week of Visibility for Non-Monogamy. Brett provides valuable insights for those interested in supporting diverse relationship structures and contributing to a more just and joyous future.

00:00 Introduction to Non-Monogamy Values

00:47 Welcome to the Relationship Diversity Podcast

01:49 Introducing Brett Chamberlain and OPEN

02:47 Brett's Journey into Activism

04:41 The Birth of OPEN

10:45 Strategies for Non-Monogamous Advocacy

17:45 The Importance of Community

22:42 Future Visions for OPEN

26:28 Steps for Legislative Change

32:49 Week of Visibility for Non-Monogamy

32:58 Introduction to the Week of Visibility

33:55 Feedback and Expansion to a Week

34:36 Organizing Local and Online Events

36:03 Daily Themes for the Week of Visibility

38:27 Supporting Non-Monogamous Individuals

40:56 Volunteering and Donations

44:31 The Broader Vision for Non-Monogamy

47:03 Challenging Norms and Personal Growth

54:50 Final Thoughts and Resources

Join OPEN's email list: |  Week of Visibility |  OPEN’s Non-Monogamy Reading List | Join OPEN’s Community Discord

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Transcript

Brett Chamberlin: 0:00

through the skills and values embedded directly into non-monogamy communication, consent, connection, compassion, compersion. I think that these are part of the medicine that the world needs right now. And that is not to say that everyone needs to be non-monogamous or that non-monogamy is going to save the world. But if you can turn up, just by a couple percentage points, the way in which compassion, for example, is valued in our society, by bringing those values more to the fore, by bringing non-monogamous people more into the light, I think that that can have a really, really, really significant longitudinal impact on the trajectory of it sounds a little grand to say human civilization, but ultimately that's what we're talking about here. It's non-monogamous people defending ourselves, defending our allies and then, through this work, helping to shape that more just and joyous future.

Carrie Jeroslow: 0:49

Welcome to the Relationship Diversity Podcast, where we celebrate, question and explore all aspects of relationship structure diversity, from soloramory to monogamy to polyamory and everything in between, because every relationship is as unique as you are. We'll bust through societal programming to break open and dissect everything we thought we knew about relationships, to ask the challenging but transformational questions who am I and what do I really want in my relationships? I'm your guide, Keri Jaroslow, bestselling author, speaker, intuitive and coach. Join me as we reimagine all that our most intimate relationships can become. Today's episode is part of our conversation series. I'm just one voice in this relationship diversity movement and it's important to bring more unique perspectives into the conversation.

Carrie Jeroslow: 1:49

Today I'm talking with Brett Chamberlain, executive Director for the non-profit organization OPEN, which stands for the Organization for Polyamory and Ethical Non-Monogamyamy. Open is working to advance rights and acceptance for non-monogamous families and relationships of all varieties. In the episode, brett discusses how they do that through awareness, visibility and advocacy. We talk about how you yourself can advocate for non-monogamy and why this is so important to advance and evolve humanity. There are many small and big ways you can support diverse relationship structures and Brett gives really tangible suggestions to do just that. And we talk about so much more in this incredible conversation, but first a little about him.

Carrie Jeroslow: 2:47

Brett Chamberlain is a social impact organizer with over a decade of advocacy and nonprofit leadership experience. Brett is the founder and executive director of OPEN, the Organization for Polyamory and Ethical Non-Monogamy, which works to advance legal rights and cultural acceptance for nonmonogamous families and relationships. Prior to launching OPEN, brett worked in the environmental nonprofit sector, where he co-founded the Post-Landfill Action Network to support student-led sustainability initiatives on college campuses, and served as the Director of Community Engagement at the Story of Stuff Project, where he led the global grassroots distribution of their Emmy-winning documentary, the Story of Plastic. Let's get into the conversation.

Carrie Jeroslow: 3:42

Hello everyone, and welcome to this episode of Relationship Diversity Podcast. I am so honored to have my guest with me today. Today I have Brett Chamberlain, who is the Executive Director for OPEN, which stands for the Organization for Polyamory and Ethical non-monogamy, and this is a powerful organization. Powerful in that it is creating and advocating for non-discrimination, for non-monogamy, and when we start to break out of toxic monogamy and we start to really break down all that we've ever known about relationships, it paves the way for non-traditional relationships to be birthed in its place. And Brett is really a part of this movement and I'm really grateful to have you here. So welcome, brett, to the podcast.

Brett Chamberlin: 4:40

Thank you so much for having me, Keri.

Carrie Jeroslow: 4:41

So I'd love for you to start for the people who don't know anything about Open and anything about the work that you do. Please tell us a little bit about yourself and about your organization.

Brett Chamberlin: 4:55

I'd be happy to so. By way of personal introduction, my name again is Brett I use he, him pronouns and I'm based here in the Bay Area of California. I'm the founder and executive director of OPEN, which, as you stated, is the organization for polyamory and ethical non-monogamy. We are an advocacy nonprofit working to advance cultural acceptance and legal rights for non-monogamous families and relationships of all varieties.

Carrie Jeroslow: 5:17

Amazing. That's a lot that you have taken on, so there's got to be a little bit of a personal story. I'm thinking for your inspiration for starting something this big, that's such an institution like monogamy, to break that down and to go through all the challenges. So what is your story and how did you get to this kind of work?

Brett Chamberlin: 5:39

I've been involved in activism and advocacy for really my whole life. My pathway in was doing anti-war and anti-recruitment organizing in my home state of New Hampshire, doing a lot of youth mobilization work. I continued with advocacy as a college student in New York City when I was at the front lines of the Occupy Wall Street movement, and then, after graduating college, I ended up co-founding my first nonprofit, which was an environmental organization called PLAN, the Post-Landfill Action Network, which worked to support student-led sustainability initiatives on college campuses. And I spent the next nearly 10 years of my career, although I hate the word career because it feels more like just my life.

Brett Chamberlin: 6:18

I'm with you on that. You get it, yeah. So I spent the next phase in the environmental nonprofit sector, principally focused on anti-consumerism and waste reduction, and it was a job in that field that brought me out to the Bay Area in 2016. And my focus there is really certainly on creating a sustainable culture and economy, but at a deeper level, it's about addressing our relationship with stuff, with the planet and with one another, which in consumer economies like the United States is often expressed through consumption, through brand identities and so on.

Brett Chamberlin: 7:05

Quickly becoming very immersed in the Bay Area sex positive and polyamory communities, which here are pretty overlapping, although those are distinct identities and experiences, and through that journey I was really surprised to first of all, see just how large non-monogamy was.

Brett Chamberlin: 7:19

Second, how marginalized of an identity it actually was.

Brett Chamberlin: 7:22

I was seeing friends and peers who, even in progressive areas like the Bay Area, had to conceal their relationship structure or their family structure for fear of community ostracization, family rejection, loss of employment, rejection of rental applications and so on.

Brett Chamberlin: 7:39

So it seemed like there was an opportunity to really try to add some new capacity to the growing non-monogamy movement and the link between those two fields for me that the sort of sustainability work, the environmental sector and the non-monogamy work is that it's all about creating a just and joyous world, and I think that there's a lot of really obviously incredibly important conversations happening around the materials economy, right that, the stuff that we use and throw away, and obviously energy and so on and yet, for all the innovation and conversations that are happening there, it seemed to me that the social technology side of things, the way that we were in relationships again, not just with our stuff but with one another, really was a conversation that was somewhat lagging behind, but with one another really was a conversation that was somewhat lagging behind, and so I view this work all as contiguous. It's all about serving a vision for a more just and joyous future where all humans can thrive.

Carrie Jeroslow: 8:32

Yeah, and I love something that I read on your website about this idea of that we are all in relationship to all things. This is why I feel so inspired to learn myself and to work with people who are in relationships in all different ways, because if we can learn to be in relationship in a healthy, compassionate, equal way in terms of equality of rights and just the ability to be who we are in this world and to find acceptance, we could really make this world that joyous world that you're talking about. And there's a lot to do in that area, because there is a lot of inequality. There is a lot of that monogamous mindset that is mononormativity. It is so infiltrated into so much of society and then, when you look individually into beliefs and to how we've been programmed, that there's a lot to break down. So you got inspired to start open. And where did you first? When you first is like, okay, I'm going to do this. How did you start that organization? What was your initial vision for it?

Brett Chamberlin: 9:47

Well, the first and scariest step was quitting my job in the environmental sector and walking away from salary and healthcare, taking a bit of a leap there, but of course, I'm very grateful to have a wide network of support and a number of privileges that made that an acceptable risk. So that was at the end of 2021. And at the beginning of 2022, started putting the pieces together for Open and, of course, taking the relational lens. The first step was to start having conversations with folks that were already engaged in this work in a number of ways, so worked on building a board of directors who had experience across a range of points of intervention or facets of the non-monogamy sector. So those included folks that were doing community leadership of sex-positive communities, folks that had founded apps serving queer, kinky and edge-of-culture folks, folks that were doing advocacy in the non-monogamy space, lawyers, and so that initial board was just essential and instrumental in really helping to shape the vision, and so that initial vision really was around three strategies and this is still what we call in activist speak, our theory of change, and that is one to serve the non-monogamous community and skills and experience positive outcomes in their non-monogamous relationships. They're not going to have the extra capacity to engage in those higher level advocacy and change-making activities. So we provide resources and support things like our free twice-monthly peer support sessions and guides to help people navigate complicated systems or life events that aren't designed with our relationships in mind.

Brett Chamberlin: 11:26

The second piece of our strategy is about visibility, acceptance and awareness. This is about bringing non-monogamy out of the shadows and helping push back against some of the stigma and the misconceptions around non-monogamy, and these are, unfortunately, quite prevalent and persistent in the US. So there was a 2023 survey of 1000 American adults that found that 53% of Americans said that they found polyamory, just a form of non monogamy, to be fundamentally not morally acceptable. 18% thought that it was morally acceptable. So even if we went over all the people that don't have an opinion, we still have a lot of minds to change.

Brett Chamberlin: 12:01

So visibility is a really important part of that. It's about helping people understand that there are non-monogamous people among their family, their friends, their neighbors, their coworkers, and the final piece of this is really about building power and taking action to transform systems, to pass laws to ensure that non-monogamous families and relationships are respected and protected and have equal access to the benefits and privileges that we grant to other forms of relationships. So this looks like working to change corporate policy to advance inclusion and acceptance for non-monogamous professionals in the workplace so that folks don't have to worry about getting fired. It's about passing municipal level non-discrimination laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of family and relationship structure. So those three pieces supporting non-discrimination laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of family and relationship structure, so those three pieces supporting non-monogamous communities and relationships, advancing visibility, awareness and acceptance, and changing laws and systems, are like the three pillars of our strategy.

Carrie Jeroslow: 12:57

That is incredible. And the education piece. That is my inspiration for this podcast the awareness and visibility, but also the education, because I think there's a lot of beliefs out there. Like you said, over 50% of these participants believe that polyamory is morally wrong. I remember I heard you talk about this, about the LGBTQIA movement in the 70s I think you were talking about in the Bay Area. Can you go over a little bit of that movement, because I think that there's a correlation that you're working with for the non-monogamous community.

Brett Chamberlin: 13:43

Without a doubt, I think that those experiences and those movements really parallel one another in a lot of ways, because, fundamentally, it's about how people pursue relationships and romantic and intimate connections. At the same time, I think it's really important, anytime we discuss this, to acknowledge that the experiences, while parallel, are certainly fundamentally different, right? So, while people are experiencing marginalization and stigma on the basis of their non-monogamous relationship, they're not being lynched in the way that queer Americans were and, tragically, still are, particularly trans people and trans people of color. So, with that acknowledged, though, there are parallel movements, and so, in many ways, we can really look to the playbook of what was originally called the gay liberation movement and is now the more expansive LGBTQ plus movement, and one of the initial tenets of that movement was encouraging people to come out. That's why there is such an importance placed on coming out in queer spaces, and the reason for this is that people tend to fear what they don't know or understand. The other is always scarier when it's some vague, unknown, demonized external thing, and when that other is humanized, when it's made real, into a real person, somebody you know, somebody that you care for, people tend to be much more accepting.

Brett Chamberlin: 15:06

So this is a fairly well understood sociological theory. The technical term for it is intergroup contact theory. But again, the basic idea is that you are far more likely to be accepting of somebody with a minority or an outgroup identity if you know somebody that holds one of those identities. So that's why I think that one of the most impactful things that non-monogamous people can do to help advance acceptance is and important caveat here if it is safe for you to do so and if you wish to do so not everyone does want to be open about their identity but if it is safe for you to do so, have that conversation with the people with whom it is safe.

Brett Chamberlin: 15:42

So have that conversation with your close friends, with your more casual acquaintances, with your more conservative family members, and take that as an opportunity to really share with them what it's about. And through those conversations, that's how we can really dismantle the stigmas and the myths. Because until people are invited into understanding, until people have somebody tell them what non-monogamy actually is and looks like no, it's not a fancy excuse for cheating. No, it's not just about sex. No, these are not less committed than relationships. No, it's not about waiting to find the right person. That's how people can really come to understand, not just at an intellectual level but like at a deep interpersonal somatic level, what these relationships can look like and mean for people.

Carrie Jeroslow: 16:30

It takes me back to the times that I came out to my family and my close friends and my children, and it's terrifying. It was really, really scary, and at the same time I felt like, for me, I have the privilege of that. I work my own job. I have so much privilege that I had to do it, like I had to push through the fear to become more visible to even a small circle of people, and so I think that is an element of your organization.

Carrie Jeroslow: 17:11

Is community creating the support for people to find other people like them? Because I think, especially in my family, I'm the only one that is practicing this and in most of my friend group I'm the only one that is practicing this and in most of my friend group I'm the only one that is practicing this that I know of at least, who have come out to me. And so I think that my fear was like I'm the only one, I'm weird, I'm going to stand out, I'm not going to be accepted. So can you talk a little bit about the community aspect of open, the support for people who are wanting to come out but are very scared to do so?

Brett Chamberlin: 17:46

Yeah, you make a great point there that visibility is not just about helping people that are monogamous. It's also about creating visibility for other non-monogamous people, because it can really be lonely and scary, and community is essential. It's a fundamental part of the human experience. I think it's something that we've really been deprived of in our modern culture and society. There's a lot of political science and sociological data to back this up, but people many decades ago were far more likely to be in a church congregation or a social club or a bowling league, where you had the opportunity to be in connection and conversation with people in your community. People who may have different identities, different political beliefs, and those networks of connection really form the glue that holds civic society together, that promotes trust and the share of information and our capacity to solve problems. And so I think the degradation of community, the lack of access to community, is one of the reasons that we're seeing this real fraying of our social fabric. And I think that non-monogamy, one of the beautiful gifts of non-monogamy is that community is such an integral part of it, right Like it's baked right into the equation. If you're in relationship with multiple people and they're in relationship with people right, there too, community emerges just from that, like from the relationships themselves, not to mention all of the very active community building that is done to help weave more expansive communities just beyond those networks of immediate relationships. And through those communities we can access role modeling, we can access education and support. We can access, sometimes, material support, like I've seen people find roommates, get jobs, access childcare, and I think this is a return to a mode of social organizing that was the norm for really much of human evolutionary history, where people lived in fairly smaller communities, where they knew one another's name and had one another's interests at heart. And so this is not to idealize some return to the kind of mythical village, but it is thinking about how we can bring this very essential, fundamental aspect of the human experience back into modern society In terms of how Open is working to advance that.

Brett Chamberlin: 20:02

Honestly, carrie, I wish we could do so much more. I would love to have the capacity to organize monthly meetups and happy hours and discussion groups in every major US city and around the world. We're not there yet, but in the meantime we are doing what we can to help people access and access community. So I mentioned earlier our free, twice monthly peer support circles. Those are safe spaces for folks to gather and just be in conversation about what they're experiencing in their non-monogamous relationship, to provide guidance and support to one another.

Brett Chamberlin: 20:31

We also have a community discord, where folks can gather and chat with one another about everything from advocacy to non-monogamy in the media to relationship and parenting advice. And then, finally, one of the resources that I would call to people's attention is a guide for folks interested in organizing mixers or meetups of their own. So this guide provides really clear suggestions, guidelines on how you can start and grow and sustain a recurring meetup, and it's got all sorts of helpful resources like template, invite, language and event description and opening speeches and everything. So just trying to make it as easy as possible for folks to start gathering people together in their own community.

Carrie Jeroslow: 21:13

Well, those resources are incredible, and so I hear that you want to be doing so much more.

Carrie Jeroslow: 21:18

I know I understand that there's so much that the big vision which I do want to get to what the future vision of Open is in a minute but you are doing so much and then also empowering people with resources to start their own communities is incredible.

Carrie Jeroslow: 21:34

We also have this ability to connect with me on the East Coast, you on the West Coast and that is an incredible resource, because in my community there are those places, I think, where people gather, but I don't feel like them. I feel, in fact, not completely safe in those aspects of community, and so you creating a resource and having the ability to connect with people all over the world to come together in strength, in numbers and support, I think is incredible. So you are doing a lot and I see such a long future for open and for all the things that you want to do. And, speaking of that, what are your big visions for open? Because you talked about where you started and now we're about two years into it. Two years into it. So where do you see open going in the next five to 10 years?

Brett Chamberlin: 22:39

What are your big dreams for it.

Brett Chamberlin: 22:42

So the most expansive sort of general level that the vision is for a world where all relationship structures family and relationship structures between consenting adults are not just accepted but are respected and protected. We want a world where people can create the families and relationships that align with their needs, with their identities, without having to hide, without being denied access to the same rights and privileges that currently we offer only to monogamous marriages. How do we get there? So, first of all, organizing is not a sprint, it's not a marathon, it's a relay race. So I think that it's really important that we ground this in the idea that these are multigenerational issues and this work is itself contiguous with many generations worth of work towards the liberation of human connection and expression and sexuality. But I think that we are seeing accelerating progress, both thanks to digital tools, like you referenced, the capacity that we can access through digital organizing, as well as the fact that we're just building on a really rich conversation. We're standing on the shoulders of giants who have helped chart the way to continue to work that down into more and more specific levels. The kind of playbook for the next couple of years looks like continuing to build resources, like I've described, continuing to advance the non-discrimination protections at the municipal level and work on building capacity towards state-level protections. So for example, in California, where we've just helped pass the two non-discrimination protection bills in Oakland and Berkeley, those bills do not include employment discrimination because that is legislated at the state level. So for that we've got to build capacity to get to Sacramento, California's capital, to pass or amend existing state protections. And then there's, of course 49 other states as well as US territories, and this is also work that we really do hope to see spreading globally as well, because we recognize that this is a global movement, a global community.

Brett Chamberlin: 24:40

Additionally, looking at the state level, there are still 13 US states where adultery is actually illegal. So if you are legally married and practicing non-monogamy, you are breaking the law. What's more, adultery is prohibited under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is the law, effectively, for members of the US Armed Forces. So again, if you are non-monogamous and married and in the military, you've got to conceal that because you could risk not just losing promotions but being dishonorably discharged and losing your pension and losing your VA benefits and health care. So there is a lot of work to do at the municipal level, at the state level and at the federal level, and we do that by organizing right through people power, through people stepping up having meetings with their local legislators at the city or state level, by getting our message out.

Brett Chamberlin: 25:30

And so it's people that do that work, it's volunteers, it's community members, it's individual advocates, and having dedicated staff capacity to organize those people is essential to being able to drive that work forward. So I want to be very clear like organizations like Open are not the movement, but movements can be really served and accelerated through organizational capacity. And so, if you look at the size of the non-monogamous population and if you look at the range of issues impacting us compared to other comparable identity groups in the US, there should be multiple well-resourced advocacy organizations with dedicated staff capacity whose job it is to help drive these issues forward. And so I really do hope that open can be a part of that resourcing of the movement. So I'm hopeful that we can raise money, hire staff and just bring more people and point their energy and passion to helping organize and mobilize folks so we can continue to move the ball forward.

Carrie Jeroslow: 26:27

Yeah. So I'm curious you kind of went over it there, but I'm wondering if you could take us on the journey of real legislative change. How does that start and what are the steps? The reason why I'm curious is because there might be places where people can find, where maybe they're motivated to get involved.

Brett Chamberlin: 26:53

Yeah, so I think a meta comment here is that I think that advocacy is, unfortunately, something that we really have been somewhat deprived of in American culture.

Brett Chamberlin: 27:01

I think that there's been an emphasis on really telling people that their main way of making change in the world is through the things that they buy and when they cast their vote at the ballot box, and that's true, obviously, those are real, meaningful ways of expressing your impact and your values in the world, and also, that is really a very narrow slice of what it means to be an active creator of community, an active shaper of not just the world as it is, but the world as it could be. One of the things that I really hope that Open can do is create more opportunities for people to engage in taking real, concrete action at every level to be part of this transformational change that we envision, because I think that so many people are really hungry for an opportunity to help address some of the really scary challenges that we're facing in the world, and I do think that this movement can be a point of intervention towards that.

Carrie Jeroslow: 27:49

I think that was my inspiration of asking that question, because I don't really have a lot of political experience. I don't know even the process, I wouldn't know how to fit myself in, and so for someone out there who's saying, I really do want to help, I want to help this, but I don't know where I'm thinking, if we have more education about what the process is, maybe someone can find a place where they feel aligned and feel like they can insert themselves in the process.

Brett Chamberlin: 28:17

Exactly. So let me add a bit of color to that, starting with the very, very local. So having that conversation with your family, with your peers, taking on the work because it can be work, emotional labor, educating folks about working, to help educate people about what non-monogamy is and push back against some of the myths and stigma, like that is activism, that is advocacy. Similarly, holding space for other non-monogamous people to gather, so like creating a discussion group for like eight non-monogamous friends that you do know in your community and saying, hey, this month we're going to read this book and we're going to get together and talk about it and work to support one another and grow your skills and your capacity for healthy relationships that's activism too. Holding space and creating community is a essential, fundamental form of activism and, as I shared earlier, that keeps people's cups full so that they then can take on some of the more systemically or legislative or stickier bits of activism. So then zooming out another layer, looking around in your community for what some potential points of intervention are.

Brett Chamberlin: 29:19

So I heard from a community member whose local HOA had a rule that prohibited having more than two cars parked in your driveway overnight. That is a very, very, very obvious encoding of the mononormative norm. There's two adults that live in this house, they can have their two cars. So if you're having a partner visit overnight or multiple adults that live there together, there is a very concrete and very local law or policy that is excluding non-monogamous people. So that's an example of a point of intervention. That's a very, very, very local law where, if it's your HOA, you probably know the people.

Brett Chamberlin: 29:48

So that's an example of a point of intervention. That's a very, very, very local law where, if it's your HOA, you probably know the people, and so it's not quite as scary as driving to the Capitol and calling your legislators. Another example check out your local library. Do they have books about non-monogamy? Most libraries have a form or certainly a person you can talk to behind the desk and suggest a few more titles to make sure that people in your community have access to great learning about non-monogamy. There's this incredible and growing corpus of knowledge and information around non-monogamous relationships of all types, and ensuring that those are accessible to your community because libraries rock is another great point of intervention. So those are some ideas for the very personal and the very local.

Brett Chamberlin: 30:28

So then, starting to phase to some of the municipal legislation that I mentioned what is needed to get this legislation passed is really just a council member who is ready to sponsor this legislation. So OPEN is working with some coalition partners at PLAC, the Polyamory Legal Advocacy Coalition, who drafted the model ordinance that's been adapted for the various cities that have passed these non-discrimination protections so far. So we're going to be rolling out that toolkit that provides really clear, step-by-step guidelines as well as template outreach emails later this year. But in the meantime, if you know city council members, if you know that there's somebody on the council that might be sympathetic to these issues, if you know a very politically connected friend that might be able to give you some pointers on who to talk to see if you can get on the phone, get a meeting set with these council members and share a bit about what this issue is and why it matters to you. And folks should, in the meantime, feel free to reach out to OPEN for support around that, for guidance, and certainly, if you get a council member who's excited to sponsor that legislation, do tap us in, because that's when we can step in and provide some real concrete support, and folks can reach us anytime at info at open-loveorg.

Brett Chamberlin: 31:35

So then, projecting slightly further ahead the legislation at the state level, at the municipal level, the opportunities for engagement there that we're working to build out over the course of the next couple of years might look like things like doing a lobby visit. So that's getting a bunch of people to head to your state capitol to meet with your state representative to communicate about this issue, so that they can hear directly from their actual constituents, about their identities and their experiences and the importance of introducing these productions. It might be about attending rallies and demos so that we can showcase the growth and the vibrancy of this movement. We can show people that we're here. So, yeah, that's a bit of an overview of a bit of the landscape of how I see advocacy as it is today and as it proceeds in this issue area.

Carrie Jeroslow: 32:18

That is incredibly helpful. So thank you for leading us through that, because there were many areas where I'm thinking, oh, I could plug myself in there, many areas where I'm thinking, oh, I could plug myself in there, and the advocacy that's maybe on the smaller level, personal level, still makes cumulative shifts forward. So that was incredibly helpful. Thank you for that. I want to move on to something that Open is sponsoring, and I think this is the second year, and this year it is the week of visibility for non-monogamy, and I think this is the second year, and this year it is the Week of Visibility for Non-Monogamy, and I think last year it was a Day of Visibility. Is that correct?

Brett Chamberlin: 32:58

That's right.

Carrie Jeroslow: 32:59

So tell us a little bit about that and the thoughts behind it and how you all are supporting this Week of Visibility, which is July 15th through the 21st of this year.

Brett Chamberlin: 33:12

That's right. Yeah, we talked a lot today about the importance of visibility, and so it seemed fitting that there should be a day on the calendar where we could really encourage folks to get together in person in community to share their story online, to really create a moment of noise and action and shine a light on the identities and the experiences and the values of non-monogamous individuals and families and communities all around the world. So, as you mentioned, that was launched last year as the inaugural Day of Visibility and we had in-person events in a dozen countries. There was a ton of phenomenal online conversations, people opening up about their non-monogamous identities for the first time for some folks and having really beautiful receptions. That was just so rewarding to see, and so one of the pieces of feedback we got is that folks, of course, don't expect to pick. Ask non-monogamous people to pick. Just one day there was an appetite for a full week.

Brett Chamberlin: 34:04

So, Open is really proud to play a coordinating role in helping to organize the Week of Visibility, but ultimately it really is a movement-owned Week of Action. So we're supporting and also inviting and encouraging folks to organize local in-person events, to organize online activities, to put together their own communications, to really promote education on that day, and we're really looking forward to making an even bigger splash and hopefully just reaching people that, just again, may not know about non-monogamy and may be really interested to learn and just see a bit about what that experience actually looks like.

Carrie Jeroslow: 34:36

Yeah, and in this week you have a schedule. I saw on your website of a focus for each day for the week. Could you go over that and talk a little bit more about how you're doing it? Is this an online thing? I know that there's an online and a local aspect of it, but the schedule has some really great subjects on it that seem to build on one another.

Brett Chamberlin: 35:02

So folks can visit weekofvisibilitycom Very happy that that URL is somehow still available for us and there they will find not in this very moment, but in the future, when this podcast comes out, we will have listed all of the online and in-person events and activities. So, with luck, there will be an in-person event somewhere near you. If there is not, we'd really love to support you in organizing one. We can provide you an organizer's guide to help give some guidance on what that can look like, and that could be something as simple as putting together a picnic in the park and inviting local non-monogamous folks and their families to just come on out and get together. Or you could put together an online workshop or presentation or talk or panel, and so we'll have all of those online and in-person events and activities listed on the website. And those can or don't need to, but they can tag on to the various messaging themes for each day. So those are opportunities to really narrow in on very specific aspects of this very rich and expansive set of experiences and history. That that is non-monogamy, which is, of course, it's like a big tent. So those daily themes are.

Brett Chamberlin: 36:05

On Monday we're going to start with history and culture. So this is looking at the history and culture within the non-monogamy movement, but also, and perhaps more importantly, the non-monogamy throughout history and around the world. I think that one of the misconceptions about non-monogamy is that it's some new trendy thing that young coastal elites are doing, and in fact, non-monogamy has actually been the norm in most cultures around the world throughout history. So this is not a new invention of the Western world. This is a return to a very old and very persistent way of organizing relationships.

Brett Chamberlin: 36:39

Tuesday we'll be looking at identities and inclusion. Some folks feel that it's a practice. For other folks it is an integral part of their identity. There's no right answer there. It's just folks' individual experience. We want to look at non-monogamy as an identity, but also the many other identities that people hold and the ways that those can intersect with their non-monogamous community. Is that folks that hold other marginalized identities so people of color in the US, folks that hold LGBTQ plus identities they're far more likely to experience stigma and marginalization on the basis of their non-monogamous identity than folks with more privileged identities. So we really want to look at the ways that those identities can intersect and overlap and compound.

Brett Chamberlin: 37:26

Wednesday we'll be looking at myths and misconceptions. There are many. It'll be an opportunity to really just take those on headfirst. Thursday's theme is public and private, so this is about looking at the ways in which people can choose to, or are free and safe to, be open about their non-monogamous identity, but also people that are forced to or choose to remain private about their identity. I think that during a week of visibility, it's really important to acknowledge and hold space for the people that can't or don't want to be visible. Friday is about law and advocacy. So there's some great workshops happening there looking at all the various legal implications and contexts around non-monogamy, as well as phenomenal related advocacy happening around things like internet censorship and sexual freedom and so on. And then the weekend is for the week. It's the weekend, it's action and events. So that's when we expect to see a lot of the in-person events happening and we'll be inviting people to get together and come together in community and connect with their non-monogamous neighbors and maybe even have some conversations with some curious passerbys.

Carrie Jeroslow: 38:27

And just to be clear, each of the subjects they're going to be an online component, so if someone lives, like I do, in a little town, that I could log on and learn more about the history and culture and so on and so forth throughout there.

Brett Chamberlin: 38:41

Exactly Yep. There will be talks or panels on. I believe so far each of these are covered. So our friends at the Woodhull Freedom Foundation, for example a fantastic advocacy organization working on sexual freedom as a human right putting together a law and advocacy panel. There will be a kind of anonymous peer support circle for folks that aren't open about their identity to gather for the public and private day, so on and so forth. That's great.

Carrie Jeroslow: 39:07

So what are your suggestions? I'd like to go through the spectrum of people, and it has to do with the public and private. Tagging on to what you were talking about, that is that some people do not feel safe at all to be visible but still want to participate in the ways that they can. So I'm wondering if you could give some suggestions for people who really feel like they cannot be visible for safety reasons, how they can contribute to this week and feel like they're still doing something, because they may be too nervous to come out or it might not be safe for them. How can they still be involved?

Brett Chamberlin: 39:50

Yeah, that's a great question.

Brett Chamberlin: 39:51

So there are still certainly many actions that people can take without opening up their own personal identity.

Brett Chamberlin: 39:56

So, for example, like you can write an anonymous letter to the editor in your local newspaper and share a bit about hey, I'm a member of your community, I might be your neighbor, we might work together.

Brett Chamberlin: 40:07

This is a really important part of my life and I have to write this letter anonymously and really help shine a light on your experience without shining a light on your identity. So actions like that and I would, in fact, encourage folks that aren't able to be open in person to think about creating online identities where they can be open about their identity. I think it's really important to have a release valve to be able to connect with other people. So that doesn't mean that you need to create an anonymous Instagram and get a bunch of fancy masks or whatnot, but even just creating a Discord handle and jumping into the Discord and holding space with other community, it's a great way to just help other non-monogamous people see if they're not alone and stand in solidarity with that experience, and it's a really great way for you as an individual to have some space to be open about your identity, even if that's through an anonymized platform.

Carrie Jeroslow: 40:56

Yeah, and also there is a way to donate, to open, to support financially if that is at all possible, and that's anonymous unless you're a sponsor or something, but a way to support if that is possible for people. You are a nonprofit so you can take donations. Is that correct?

Brett Chamberlin: 41:16

That is correct. Yeah, donations are anonymous up to a certain limit, after which point they're reported to the IRS. But I think it's higher. It's, I think, over a grand. But yes, we are a 501c3 nonprofit, so contributions are tax deductible to the extent permitted by law and we're super grateful for folks' support.

Brett Chamberlin: 41:36

As I mentioned earlier, there's a lot of work to do here and I think organizational capacity is really one of the constraints on our reach and impact at this time. This is my full-time job. I'm super, super grateful and privileged to be able to say that and also I'm the only full-time employee at the organization, so I'd love to have a broader team bring more dedicated capacity to this work. So we'd be very grateful for folks' support. They can contribute by visiting open-loveorg slash donate If your employer has donation matching. We're listed on online donation matching platforms like Benevity. And finally, folks can. We have a bookshoporg. So this is a really cool website where folks can shop our non-monogamy, nonfiction reading lists. When you order through our shop, your order gets fulfilled by a local independent bookstore. So, local to you, a participating bookstore and open gets a cut. So it's a great way to build your non-monogamy library, support independent bookstores and support open all in one go, and that's bookshoporg slash shop slash open.

Carrie Jeroslow: 42:39

Amazing and do you take volunteers if someone, because volunteering could be so helpful for someone who doesn't have community and who wants to do something and who maybe doesn't have the money but has some time. Do you accept volunteers for the organization at all?

Brett Chamberlin: 42:56

We do so. There's a couple of volunteer projects ongoing right now. One of the challenges is that, like organizing volunteers also does take time.

Carrie Jeroslow: 43:02

So another full-time job.

Brett Chamberlin: 43:05

Yeah, so trying to put as many people into action as possible, but definitely I think one of the first hires that we will be aiming to make is a community organizer to help create more opportunities for people to take action. If folks join our email list as we launch volunteer projects, they'll see those opportunities. And when you sign up for our email list, one of the fields will ask you about your interest in volunteering, and so if you are interested in volunteering visiting open-loveorg, join and then, in that volunteer field, just share a little bit about the types of skills that you'd be interested in offering. So, are you an organizer that would like to help put together panels and workshops? Are you a graphic designer? Are you a web developer that can help work on creating digital resources and that can just give us some sense of what we can best plug you in?

Carrie Jeroslow: 43:49

Amazing, oh my gosh. You are doing amazing work and I do think it takes a village to make real social change. It takes us all doing what we're doing and the way that we're doing it and growing together, and the foundation of what you're doing is based in love. It's so different from a lot of the other things that are going on that are based in war and, like you say, competition, and this is about coming together in love, and the world definitely needs more of that. Is there anything that you want to talk about that we haven't touched on?

Brett Chamberlin: 44:31

Yeah, I'd love to return a bit to nearly where we started, which is that more expansive vision for the just and joyous future, because the one last piece that I want to share there is a bit more about how I see the non-monogamous movement fitting into that project, which I've touched on a little bit. But I'd love to lay out the kind of vision a little bit more concretely. So definitely, in my view, and certainly open strategy is sees this expressing across three layers. So the first, more narrowly, is, as we've talked about today, of course, about ending the experience of stigma and discrimination for non-monogamous people directly. That's the surface layer, pretty straightforward, not easy, but straightforward. The second layer, underneath that, is about activating the non-monogamous community as a movement capable of showing up in solidarity with other intersecting and overlapping movements. So the non-monogamous community, which is already so very well networked and mobilized, right Like it's baked right into the equation, as I shared earlier, should be able to activate and link arms with movements for racial justice, social justice, economic justice, environmental justice, because we're at a time when some very hard fought rights are under attack. So we need to regain the ground that we've lost on reproductive justice. We need to stand up to defend our queer and trans siblings and we need to protect access to contraception, which is like very much in the crosshairs. So I think the non-monogamous movement, beyond just standing up for ourselves, we have a really important part to play in standing up for our neighbors, for our friends, for our siblings, for our allies.

Brett Chamberlin: 46:09

And then the third piece is that more expansive vision that, through the skills and values embedded directly into non-monogamy communication, consent, connection, compassion, compersion I think that these are part of the medicine that the world needs right now. And that is not to say that everyone needs to be non-monogamous or that non-monogamy is going to save the world. But if you can turn up, just by a couple percentage points, the way in which compassion, for example, is valued in our society, by bringing those values more to the fore, by bringing non-monogamous people more into the light, I think that that can have a really, really, really significant longitudinal impact on the trajectory of it sounds a little grand to say human civilization, but ultimately that's what we're talking about here. So that's really how I see this proceeding it's non-monogamous people defending ourselves, defending our allies and then, through this work, helping to shape that more just and joyous future.

Carrie Jeroslow: 47:03

Yeah, and the reason why I feel so inspired by relationship diversity is relationship diversity says there's no one right way to be. I always say know who you are, to know what you want, and that they are all perfectly valid and important. And if we can all come together and say you do you and I accept you, and there's a compassion and an acceptance and a celebration for you being who you are in this moment and expressing yourself the way that you feel works for you, and it's not for me to say it's wrong. And so I feel what you were saying not saying that non-monogamy has to be right for everyone. That's not what we're saying.

Carrie Jeroslow: 47:45

But there's so much about non-monogamy, the skills that are necessary for non-monogamy to make it successful, to have it be a successful experience or successful, I don't even like that word but to have it be a expansive experience. There's so many skills that will help society, that will help our world, that will help humanity. When you were talking about that, that's what really came up and that, if we can honor what those skills are, instead of oh, you're trying to turn me non-monogamous, you're trying to say that non-monogamy is the best and the only way to be, and I have gotten that some from people who are like you're trying to spread this non-monogamous agenda, and that's why I dig into relationship. Diversity it is really about the skills. It is about connection and acceptance and diversity and inclusion and respecting other people, and so that was some of the thoughts that came up when you were describing that.

Brett Chamberlin: 48:50

Yeah, I think that is so right, carrie, and I really appreciate you bringing that forward, because identities, like labels, are important for organizing people, to give somebody a sort of shared vocabulary or shared identity around which we can organize. So, identifying non-monogamy as such or polyamory or the swinger lifestyle or the various practices within that sort of big tent, that does matter. And also it's really important that we not get too distracted and start putting people in the boxes oh, you're in the monogamy box, I'm in the polyamory box or the lifestyle box and what we really need to focus on, as you just so aptly put it are the skills. The skills that is the important piece, because at the end of the day, it's not just about saying, okay, well, monogamy needs to be on an equal footing with non-monogamy in the way that is right for them. And when we say relationship, we mean every relationship. I am in a relationship not just with my partners or lovers. I'm in a relationship with my roommates. I'm in a relationship with my neighbors, with my siblings Every human connection is a relationship.

Carrie Jeroslow: 49:56

I am in a relationship with myself.

Brett Chamberlin: 49:59

Exactly.

Carrie Jeroslow: 50:00

And the environment and our community.

Brett Chamberlin: 50:03

Yeah. So I think right now our society puts the monogamous romantic relationship at the top of the stack. It is the singular, most important relationship that you're expected to pursue and prioritize at the expense of other relationships, and we don't really even question it. It's a real shame and toxic monogamy. This is the trope that the male partner has to cut off the relationship with the female best friend because the romantic partner needs to be part of this.

Brett Chamberlin: 50:32

And so this is about not just kind of knocking the monogamous romantic relationship off the top of the stack, but actually just liberating all relationships and saying all relationships are important. They're different, obviously, some will play different levels of importance to people's lives, but all relationships are important.

Carrie Jeroslow: 50:50

And celebrating the differences, because when we try to put it into a box, that's where I feel like we've gotten with intimate relationships and mononormativity is we just try, and even in that there's so much spectrum of monogamy, specifically when you're doing it consciously. And I have a teenager and I'm seeing that in this very like a Southern community of that. It's just some of his friends that are like you are only dating to get married. That's the only reason to date, and I'm just amazed that that it and it starts way earlier than that. It starts when you show my three-year-old Cinderella or Disney movie that says you got to meet your Prince Charming and so it is so embedded into our subconscious and so it's not. It's all everything that you said. And then it comes back to what's going on in you and what your belief is, and I have to say that I wasn't sure if I was going to bring this up, but my 10-year-old read this book to me this morning.

Carrie Jeroslow: 51:54

I don't know if you've ever heard it, but it's a John Cena book called Do your Best Every Day. To Do your Best Every Day. It's been on his bookshelf since 2021, but he brought it out and it's these amazing words and the one that really spoke to me specifically in preparing for this interview was this one. It says ask questions, challenge norms, seek answers to everything in life, especially to the reflection staring back at you. This is very difficult, but in the end it is always worth it. Which I was like oh my God, this is. I mean, this is what we're doing. John Cena, let's go. Oh, you should read the whole book.

Carrie Jeroslow: 52:34

I had chills the whole book. I was like what I never knew. He did anything like that. That's amazing. It's a great book with lots of words of wisdom, but that one really really spoke to me because that is what is happening Challenge norms, but also look within yourself of all the beliefs that we hold, because it is like insidious, it's just like in there. And especially, that's one thing I love about the non-monogamous community, because in order to do it in a way that is fulfilling, you are going to be challenged by all of the. Oh my God, I didn't even believe I like that happens to me still in this many years of my journey of like I didn't even, I can't even believe that. I thought that Wow, wow, and you know, and challenging that and looking at the reflection, it is scary, but it's also really worth it. It's very liberating.

Brett Chamberlin: 53:21

Yeah, and I think the best way to challenge it is to ask what is my relationship with this thing? So, for example, like jealousy, like that's one of the, of course, big words that comes up when you start talking about non-monogamy. People are like, oh, I could never do non-monogamy, I'm too jealous. How do you deal with jealousy? And it's like, well, we don't deal with jealousy. It's about asking what is my relationship with jealousy? How do I greet this experience, this very universal human experience? What does it have to tell me? How can I nurture and care for it? So, yeah, I think the relationship lens is incredibly powerful.

Carrie Jeroslow: 53:53

I love those deeper questions about jealousy. I always say jealousy is such a surface emotion, it stops so many people and if you can just look at actually what is underneath it, and that is through moving through the jealousy and not trying to get rid of the jealousy, but moving through it and seeing that there are usually deeper issues underneath that jealousy. And so for me that was a beautiful part about my non-monogamous journey is that I got to look at some super deep self-esteem issues, self-worth issues that if I stopped at the jealousy I probably would not have gotten to or it would have taken me a lot longer. And so again, gifts of this journey of non-monogamy, that you don't have to be non-monogamous, but you can also reap the benefits of these amazing gifts that non-monogamy can bring to your life.

Brett Chamberlin: 54:48

Exactly yeah.

Carrie Jeroslow: 54:50

Oh well, Brett, thank you so much for this conversation. Everyone, please hop on over to Open's website. I'm going to have all of the links in the show notes, all about Open and the Week of Visibility, and all the links to all the amazing stuff in the discord group and everything. So thank you so much for being here and for this amazing conversation.

Brett Chamberlin: 55:13

Thank you, carrie. It's been a pleasure speaking with you and I look forward to hearing from your audience, who can reach us at anytime. Info at open-loveorg. Love to hear from folks, so please, please, feel free to be in touch.

Carrie Jeroslow: 55:24

Thanks so much for listening to the Relationship Diversity Podcast. Want to learn more about relationship diversity? I've got a free guide I'd love to send you. Go to wwwrelationshipdiversitypodcastcom to get yours sent right to you. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe to the podcast. You being here and participating in the conversation about relationship diversity is what helps us create a space of inclusivity and acceptance together. The more comfortable and normal it is to acknowledge the vast and varied relating we all do, the faster we'll shift to a paradigm of conscious, intentional and diverse relationships. New episodes are released every Thursday. Stay connected with me through my YouTube channel, where I'll give you even more free resources and information, all about relationship diversity. I'm super excited to go deeper into YouTube because I'll be able to connect and have conversations directly with you. You'll find the link in the show notes. Stay curious. Every relationship is as unique as you are.