S2 EP22: DR RICK DIAMOND, The Story Healer

Nicoa has the honor of hosting a Beautiful Soul having a Human Experience  Dr Rick Diamond, The Story Healer! They talk spirituality, connection, and healing. Their conversation delves into recognizing the healing power of words and overcoming childhood trauma alongside grief and meaning-making, with a focus on creating space for emotions and remembering one's eternal nature. Your LIFE BY DESIGN will forever be transformed with this new way of thinking AND HEALING after hearing this episode!  LIFE BY DESIGN JOURNALING PROMPT: Who am I really without _____?

THE STORY HEALER
Rick is the author of Wrestling With God (2004) and a textbook on Creative Writing.
Dr. Rick's GREAT HEART MEN’S ONLINE CIRCLE A 6-Week Journey into the Heart!

REFERENCES:
The Bahá’í Faith 

WHAT IS MASCULINE and FEMININE ENERGY: Masculine and feminine energy are spiritual and psychological concepts that are meant to complement and support each other. They are not limited to one gender, and everyone contains a combination of both. When balanced, these energies can lead to a greater sense of harmony and fulfillment.

Paul Selig's Books
Michael Singer's Books

Buy your copy of YOUR LIFE BY DESIGN: A Coffee With Nicoa Self-Care Coaching Journal
on Amazon today! 

Transcript

Nicoa Coach: 0:00

Music. Grab your coffee and join me, nicoa for a caffeinated conversation about life. I'll be talking to people who have chosen to walk their own paths, and just like me, are creating a life by design. I hope it will give you the inspiration you need to do exactly the same. Good afternoon. Dr, Rick diamond, how are you?

DR RICK DIAMOND: 0:28

I'm great. How are you?

Nicoa Coach: 0:30

I'm doing well. I'm just so honored and flattered that you said yes. I'm bit of an Instagram stalker, so when I start following people that I really like their messaging. I'm like, Hey, man, you want to be on my podcast, so I'm just honored that you said yes. What

Unknown: 0:47

a great way to be in a conversation, right? Hey, I like what you do. Well, I like what you do, so let's get together. That's a good thing.

Nicoa Coach: 0:53

I agree. And it turned out that you were following me. I was so flattered. I was like, Oh my God, he's actually following me. And I didn't even know you were following me. So the social media world, you're

Unknown: 1:04

doing all kinds of cool things. I was like, she look at all these people she's talking to. Look at all this cool stuff she's posting. So why not absolutely. Yeah,

Nicoa Coach: 1:12

thanks. I'm really glad that you were a follower, and when I reached out, you said, yes. So yeah, our little technical difficulties will get us back on track here by me introducing everyone to you. Does do people like to call you Dr Rick,

Unknown: 1:27

sure, or whatever, I mean, whatever, that's fine. Okay,

Nicoa Coach: 1:32

Doc is good, man, yes,

Unknown: 1:36

a lot, dude. I get that a lot. When I was in ministry, my nickname was holy dude. So Holy dude, holy dude.

Nicoa Coach: 1:46

I want to describe you to everyone and everybody. Please go right now. You know you got to start following Dr Rick diamond on. He's already laughing because he you got to start following him on Instagram. And I'll tell you why. Two things. First of all, there is some power in the way that he is consistent in introducing every video that he does, and the way that Rick enters his videos is by saying, Hello, beautiful soul having a human experience. And it makes you want to melt like, oh, you see me. Has anyone ever told you that

DR RICK DIAMOND: 2:29

I have? Yes, I get this a lot. I mean, I should probably tell people this is not a trick. It's the truth. Like in the morning when I'm meditating and when I'm like, dropped into the deep place, and I'm really, really in it. I ask, what are we talking about today? Like, I don't know what we're talking about today. And then I show up and, you know, walk the dogs or sit out on the back porch or whatever. And then I can't tell you how many times I'm really clear, like something is coming through me, and I know that it's going to wherever it's supposed to go. And so for the people who go, you were talking just to me, like, right? Yes,

Nicoa Coach: 3:09

I know, same way I, you know, I send texts to my clients, and I'll do the intro in a second, guys, but I send these texts to my clients, and someone said to me, Oh, do you like pre write those and, like, send those out to all of us. And I'm like, Nah, man, all of a sudden, I'm like, I need to send this text, and it'll be this little paragraph, and I keep a copy of all of them and and there's just what I'm led to say. But you're right. I'm probably really channeling messaging that the population needs to hear

Unknown: 3:41

absolutely and I mean, I think that that's part of the dilemma that we have as human being, this, these eternal souls, having a human experience, is we keep thinking about ourselves in terms of limitation, when actually we're so connected at so many, many, many levels to all that is and the source of all that is, in which case, Just lean into it. You'll know what to say, right? Exactly. That's a real thing. I really, really believe

Nicoa Coach: 4:06

that it's real. I do too. And that recognition of connectedness, and you said that brought you to tears the other morning. Then you shared that with all of us, and I, and I have that, I know that feeling, and I'll share a story maybe later, but I got to do the intro. Okay, gosh, Rick and I could be like, I already know we could talk for like, a week and a half, if not a year and a half. Okay? So the reason that his voice everybody so I'll describe the reason his voice is so calming is because he is a story healer. And I just know that your your the tone of your voice, your way of being is this healing way of being, and yet, sometimes you look like the mad scientist. I love it. He's got this crazy hair and these cool round glasses, and every once in a while he'll make his eyes really. Big. And I just love it, because it makes me chuckle and it makes me feel even more connected to you. And I just like, wow, this guy, he's like a soul brother to me. So a story healer. You are a teacher, and have been literally in this world of of, you know, jobs and identities. You've been a retreat master. I have just now done my first retreat, so I want to hear about it. Okay, start saying I'm a retreat master.

Unknown: 5:27

There you go. Retreat master, absolutely. You

Nicoa Coach: 5:31

are a consultant. You are a speaker in many, many ways. You have you speak church, but you also speak spirituality and different religions, and you also are an author. You've written books wrestling with God and creating writing textbook. You're just phenomenal. And you also have roles in your world, where you are a partner. You have a wife, a beautiful wife with the coolest name, Christina wisdom. Come on now, set for real. She make that up?

Unknown: 6:01

No, she's and she's a she is an attorney, but she's also a spiritual director and coach who works with women especially, and she's all into the sacred feminine. So the fact that she is, that her last name, literally, is wisdom, fact that she's like this embodiment of wisdom. She's super wise. And you know that the thing we were saying about being connected, that sense of knowing something, like, that's her like, that's her thing, and that's her thing, when we were first getting to be friends of some years ago, I said, Have you always had this? And she said, Yeah, I I always had it since I was a kid. So yeah, it's that. Yeah. So wisdom, that's I'm married to. What can I say? You're

Nicoa Coach: 6:42

married to wisdom. Well, for her to have always had that? Well, let me ask you about you. So at what point did you begin to recognize that your words were healing and that you had a powerful voice? Is this a knowing you've always had, or was there an aha moment? Thank

Unknown: 6:58

you for asking that. That is a great, great question. No, I did not know that. And I growing up, I think part of the reason, you know, I've looked back at it and thought about it, I'm 63 now, so I have some some history, you know, some things to look at. I grew up in a very chaotic family of origin and a violent family of origin and a family of origin with addiction in it, and I have made a lot of peace with both of my parents, who have gone on to transition down to this lifetime into the next place, including a week after my mother died, when she came and appeared to me, when I was In a bubble bath, and we had a healing experience, which is really, really great. I did not I think most of the messaging that I got when I was a kid was be good. Quit being so loud, quit being so antsy, you know, shut up. Sit up. You know, we went to church, and I was a good little boy, and inside I was, like, aware of something happening, and I I really think I tamped it down.

Nicoa Coach: 8:06

Sure, most people do, yeah, yeah, that there was

Unknown: 8:10

a part of me that thought, I think I feel things and know things. And so for me that ended up I became an artist and a and a creative kid, and that's where all of that intuition and deep feeling went, what? And so I became English major, and then became an English teacher because I was in love with, you know, myth and words and ideas and feelings and that, that's where that went. But that was always something was cooking the whole time. The whole

Nicoa Coach: 8:36

time. I always say, What's brewing? Since, you know, coffee with Nicola, so there's always something brewing. And I think you're born knowing you just are. You're told to forget. Yeah, no, no, no, don't trust yourself. No, we'll tell you now that you know that's

Unknown: 8:56

the William Wordsworth poem, uh, owed Intimations of Immortality from recollection, from early childhood, from the I can't remember early 1800s and he says, our birth is but asleep and a forgetting, yes,

Nicoa Coach: 9:08

like, you know, I think it is, and it's supposed to be. That's the whole point. And do you believe, and you know, I'll go, I like to go deep right away. So do you believe that the experiences that you have with your parents in that chaotic, abusive environment, with addiction. Do you believe that that that was a sole contract, that you were supposed to go through those experiences?

Unknown: 9:29

Absolutely. And I Yeah, and I have thanked my parents, and Mary Ann for their names. They were like, you know, they wanted to be, for those of you who are old enough they wanted to be like The Mary Tyler Moore on The Van Van

Nicoa Coach: 9:47

Show, yeah,

Unknown: 9:49

they look like that perfection, right? That was the idea. That's the world they came from. And yeah, I'm so grateful for the lessons that that struggle. I produced and, and at the time, it was terrible, and at the same time, I look back and I'm so thankful, and, yeah, that was part of my soul contract, for sure, for

Nicoa Coach: 10:10

sure. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I a lot of people have a hard time with this topic, right? Like, are you kidding me? You mean I signed up to be abused or hurt or yelled at or and I'm like, Look, I believe that no matter what we go through, like you say you're having an experience, and you can give that meaning. And they've added a stage to grief. I heard so there's like so many stages of grief, like denial, anger. I don't remember all the stages, but the new stage that they added is meaning, right? So I'm like, oh, so I can grieve a childhood, I can grieve an experience that I've had. I can grieve a broken relationship. And how quickly can I get through those stages of grief in order to come to the meeting. And I believe there's value in all, in all. And so I just, yeah, I want to play with that for a minute.

Unknown: 11:09

Nicola, do you? I mean, when you think about meaning making one of the things, one of the things that I think is important for people, and why, why I work with people, and specifically in terms of story, is that we are always making meaning, right? We're all all of what we're doing all the time is saying, This is what this means to me, and so I'm really off, or I'm really happy, or I'm really grateful, or I'm really sad, or I'm really confused, if one of the stages of grieving is meaning and finding meaning in the grieving and the loss. I mean, that's the possible outcome, right, like, right?

Nicoa Coach: 11:46

I remember, after my my divorce from my husband of my three children, I remember laying in the bed watching, this is us, the TV show, which a great show. But I was like grieving the story. I was so sad, and then this little version of me, which I'm always telling people to there's this higher version talking to you, this little version with me, was like, Man, that's so cool. How upset you are, and yet you're so excited. And I remember, I've never forgotten that moment. I'm like, I know right, man, I can't wait for the next stage of my life, but this is so sad. But if you didn't hold them at the same time, I think it's a real practice for people. I would invite our listeners to really say, Have I held multiple emotions simultaneously to where I was aware of it, you know?

Unknown: 13:09

And the thing too, one of the things that's important in my in the practice that I use, the modality that I use, is that thing, whether it's whether it's from a Western tradition or an Eastern tradition, that's so important, which is to say, look, I'm having feelings. I'm not these feelings any more than I have this body, but I'm not this body. I have this moment in time, but I'm not this moment in time, in which case I'm having this feeling, I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it, I'm feeling it, and oh, and then another there'll be another feeling, and then there'll be another feeling. And you know, when you're 14 and you get your heart broken, there is no other feeling, there's

Nicoa Coach: 13:46

no other feeling, but you're talking about creating that space between the experience itself and you So, how do you help those when you're doing your story healing work, and you know, you know, how do you help them create the space between themselves and the emotional meaning they're giving something? And also, how is story healing different than like top therapy?

Unknown: 14:10

Yeah. So for me, there are two pieces of that that go together with the question that you just asked. And it is what Christina wisdom, the excellent wife that I have, who is, I can't

Nicoa Coach: 14:22

wait to search her. We're putting her link in there too, if it's somewhere awesome.

Unknown: 14:28

What Christina and I have been developing for the last few years is that it is a very specific practice. And when you said, how do you get people to get to that place where there's a there's this gap right or some distance? For me, it really, really, really, is about a pause and say, let me come back to my heart, like through my deep knowing, like to my four real know that I know that I know that I knowing and whether people call that soul spirit higher self. You know, if we talk about Holy Spirit, if we go to the Course of Miracles, whatever I mean, however you access that, right, the Jiva from the Hindu tradition, etc, whatever. For me, it's all about coming back to that place that is like Michael singer calls the witness. You know, it's the place that the deep knowing, where I can say, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, I remember who I am. That's what's wrong. I don't just don't remember who I am. I think I'm this thing that's. Spinning, or I think I'm this thing that I'm feeling, or I think I'm this thing that that lady just said, right? And then the next thing I know, I'm spinning off in 47 different directions. I mean, like you said earlier, we forget that we are this eternal thing. So for me, it's really about just remembering, like, okay, take a breath. Stop. Where am I? What's the i? That was the opposite of what I was trained in, in traditional Christianity, because the thing that I was told that's in beside us is bad, and the only good thing is outside of us. That's God, which I just don't buy.

Nicoa Coach: 16:07

I don't believe that either. I think that we are, if anything, an extension of whatever that source is. We are part of that source, which makes us all a part of each other. But you know, that whole the who is the I, you know, this is the tricky parts so many people are forgetting and and are afraid to remember. There's something frightening about stepping back into that memory. And I always say, Look, you know, my guy, my goal is to help you, help yourself, remember your wholeness, and create a life by design that you don't need a vacation from, or that you don't dread every day. And oftentimes, I will get very close with, you know, with a handful of clients over the past 15 years. Some of them are just like, that's That's enough. Okay, not gonna go there. Nicoa, stop bringing out the crystals.

Unknown: 17:00

What do you think is the thing that they're getting too close to?

Nicoa Coach: 17:03

I think they're getting too close to their to their heart, to their truth, and the pain that somehow, that something in there is gonna stay with them, like that. I think there's pain there and grief and sadness. I know that when I've gone there and done the work myself, that most of the time it is a sadness, it is some sort of global grieving, like a collective grieving. Even I may just be knowing too much about stuff I've read, but it's like a deep, deep grieving, and they are too frightened to tap into that grief, because they're afraid they're gonna get stuck there. At least that's some of the feedback I've received. What about your clients? Well,

Unknown: 17:48

I mean, this question about whether, if I, if I go to the place of the deep feeling, well, I get stuck there, right? The the fear that's built into that, I think, is what we've been conditioned to, which is, this is big, and I'm not gonna be able to handle

Nicoa Coach: 18:08

it right, that I can't that I'm not strong enough. I'm not enough, you know, I'm different from everybody else, or that's just not available to me. These kind of root, foundational beliefs. It's a belief system. You're right. It's story from it's story.

Unknown: 18:24

It's a story. So, so if I change the story by saying something like, we're going to go into our hearts. We're going to call in our ourselves, in our session, and everything that happens will be good. Everything that happens will be for your highest good. Everything that comes out will be good, everything. And so it's a way of reframing the work to say we're gonna I do for years and years and years, I've done a lot of men's work as well. And men said our culture are not aware of their feelings. They don't have emotional literacy. Do you know what? I mean? They don't know how to what. Now we're gonna all check in. What do you got? Well, it was kind of a no no no, just Are you mad? Or you said, I don't what is that? Right?

Nicoa Coach: 19:13

I mean, right? They don't even know. Yeah, and thank you for doing the men's work. I want to just take a side note. There are a handful of people out there that are really starting to push the men's work. I feel for our men deeply. And feminist women who are listening to these these words don't always understand what I'm talking about, but our men can't show up for us the way we wish they would, if they don't have the help to reconnect with who they are, absolutely,

Unknown: 19:38

and that's really all it is. It is a question of connecting to who they are and talk about the story, the cultural story around patriarchy and what men are expected to be is so crippling, and it's just ridiculous, and it's not fair, right for women to have to say, Okay, you're right. Patriarchy is hard on you, too. Women should be able to say, patriarch is hard on us, full stop. That's enough. But I'm telling you, men are everybody ridiculous system as well. So for me, it's all about saying to helping a man, just to be able to say, if I really feel this, will I live through this? Yes, you will, right? Like, literally, it's at that deeper level of terror. Like, if I don't, if I let this out, what will happen, we'll all be okay. We'll be in this room, and it'll be okay, and it'll be okay. So I think for me. Really, the practice is about that pause where we're willing to go into the inner place of knowing, deep, deep, deep knowing, and know that that's a sacred, good, generative place to be, rather than a dangerous place. Or, or there's something wrong with me. There's nothing wrong with you.

Nicoa Coach: 20:48

Now, there's not broken right? For real? Well, that's yeoman's work, man. I mean, you're really doing the work. And it sounds to me, and this might be something beneficial for everyone to recognize. You know, in comparison, comparing it to like a one on one therapy session, it sounds like you do a lot of group work. Would you say the group work is help, more helpful for men and women to feel safe? Or, oh, he said it, or she was able to share her Are you finding the group work more powerful?

Unknown: 21:22

The two? This may be your experience, too. I'm curious about this, but I here's what I'm finding the thing I can get some things done, or a client can get some things done one on one that maybe they couldn't do in a group setting, because they can open up more. Or maybe I can just bear down really hard with the one thing that they need to work on. And we get into it, which is great. And I do a lot of one on ones, which is great, sure, same. But there's something about when there is a circle of people, especially the and the way that I do this work, it's very energy specific. It is very intentional, especially at the beginning. There's eye gazing, there's smudging, there's breathing, there's lots of descent down into the sacred feminine, into the body, into the deep knowing. And then out of that, whatever work, work we need to do, will be organic. And it'll, it'll flow right, as opposed to, okay, here's your handout, and we're gonna, tonight, we're gonna cover both. I mean, come on. Well,

Nicoa Coach: 22:17

how do you break through? I mean, people often say, Yeah, well, the the student, the teacher, arrives when the student is ready, or whatever. So how do we really mean? Part of my role on this planet, I believe, is to take what is often perceived as, you know, crystals and feathers. That's my that's my corporate joke. You know, I can pull out the crystals and feathers if you want me to. But let me talk about six sigma for self awareness, which is literally just consciousness, right, right? Just self awareness, just a conversation with self so that you can tap into that inner knowing. I think we're in the middle of the massive remembering. I started to say shift, but it's the remembering, and if we can help people, here's my challenge. I want to help everybody, and I'm chasing them down the hallway, you know, I want to help you. But the truth is, if you're listening to this and you're ready and this in any way, shape or form, sounds like, Okay, that sounds safe. These people sound normal. They sound nice. Then go for it. I mean, we don't have 52 offerings to put in front of you quite yet, but we've got our website. Our websites, but I think people are just afraid and the corporate world, I think my point is I'm supposed to be entering the corporate world and talking about these things and making it okay and not apologizing, right? You know, yeah,

Unknown: 23:49

and if our CO it's obvious that our culture is awakening and remembering that, that they can there is something more than the bottom line and the to do list and the emails and the data, because everybody knows at some deep level that's not real. That's amazing. Yeah, right. So when you are working with people and you're saying, and when I'm working with people and saying, You know what, let's, let's just like, really feel what this really, really is. If they they almost never fight me on it. They're

Nicoa Coach: 24:17

really, yeah, yeah. Anybody that's ever been in in front of me is usually ready. And I just, I think the best thing as a teacher is to to just own it, you know, own what you know, and you know, unapologetically, and I'm grateful for you for being that way and in the way you show up on social media. Tell me how you gained the confidence to do that unapologetically. Was there ever a hesitation?

Unknown: 24:47

I was a college English teacher for 10 years, and I learned a lot about just being in front of people and not wasting people's time, and that I wanted to be a good teacher, and Robin Williams and Dead Poets Society was my hero. So that was my way of being a teacher in the classroom and outside the classroom and all that. And then I had a a couple of spiritual awakenings, which then led me to go into like regular Christian ministry. I was a regular minister for 10 years, and it was great because I was working with beautiful people and doing spiritual things, and it was not great because I did not, I could, I can't work for this corporation. I mean, it just doesn't work for me. And so after 10 years, a group of people said. Well, could we do something different? And we've started a little faith community here in Austin, and I that I led for 17 years, and it was very and weird and trippy. And, you know, somebody would read a beautiful Jesus story, and then somebody would read a roomy poem, and then somebody would do an art piece, and somebody would light a candle, and somebody would do a thing with food and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was wonderful all that time. The whole time I was having my own my spirituality was was getting bigger and weirder, and I was incorporating weirder in the very best sentence, and I was incorporating work and breath work, and lots of Native American and indigenous peoples spirituality, and lots of Eastern spirituality and lots of mystics. And the next thing I knew, I was just like, I I can't not say that. This is what I'm about. I mean, I can't, this is it. So I just started, I mean, I just started talking about it, and it was great. It was fine. And so then about three years ago, when I was ready to take another break and move into another chapter. I sat for about a year and did art and prayed and thought and said, What is What? What? What would bring all this together? And it was about the idea of helping people connect to spirit and story, and that's where it came from. So I mean, for me, talking about energy and the soul and the all the stuff and the thing. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, everything's welcome if it's real, if it's beautiful, if it's good, if it helps, come on ahead.

Nicoa Coach: 27:02

I agree. You know, it reminds me of when I was in grad school, when I went to one meeting of the Baha'i Faith and the by faith. For those listening, if you don't know, it's like you know, do unto others, as you'd have them do unto you, and you look at all the different you know writings out in the world, and where they show that, and how every religion really has consistent values, and that there's that connectedness that we talked about earlier. So I'm really, really grateful for you and intrigued by your journey. It's, it's interesting. I want everybody to recognize, too that their journeys are valuable no matter what they look like. Yes, people feel like I used to feel like that. I'm not spiritual enough. Or I'm not, you know, I don't know all the things. Or I remember sitting on the table. It was only 15 years ago, laying on an energy table with my intuitive coach, and she said, Wow, you've been in the corporate world for how long? And I was, like, almost 20 years, just striving and, you know, just masculine energy. She said, your entire left side of your body is black. Is dark. Wow. I had not been receiving and it's, I think it's probably only just sparkly now, even after 15 years, like, I think it's just cracking open, like I'm peeling off the I'm like, Oh, you mean I can receive love and support. Talk a little bit about that masculine, feminine energy and how that shows up in the work you do. If you don't mind,

Unknown: 28:33

I'm happy to thank you for sharing that story. It's really beautiful. I want to honor you for the what I see in my wife and many and my sister, who is this really brilliant, beautiful business person, who is also a spirit person at the same time, our culture, speaking of the story and our culture, has really sold women this idea that they have to be something that doesn't fit them, to be, I don't know, successful or good or something, and then they end up shutting off. And so both men and women shut off. This the beautiful, sacred, feminine, yeah, we all, we have to have this. All of us, we have to have this. I mean, yeah, and our culture is so, I mean, I'm just gonna get this. This is my favorite way to illustrate this. What happened in the history of white people in America go west and conquer like and why? Because we are all guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, there's no rest in that. No rest. There's no receiving in that. There's no enjoyment in that. The pursuit of something all the time, go west, get, acquire, take, steal, you know, manipulate, blah, blah, blah. It's the same way with a business meeting. I mean, we've all seen the office, right? Oh, my God. I mean, it's just right, it's all the time. Yep,

Nicoa Coach: 29:57

I do this work around energy leadership that talks about this average level three energy, which is the rationalizer. And the rationalizer says, Hey man, I'm gonna win. I hope you do too. You know, Hey, Rick, I hope you win, but I'm just gonna work right around you there, so I'm just gonna do what I gotta do. Yep, good luck man. Hey, we're all in this together, but I'm gonna win. And I live that way, and the majority of people in the world actually live in that energy still. And so yeah, so yeah, I hear you, and I'm exhausted. Men are exhausted. Women are exhausted. That maybe. Those are my tears, tears of fatigue. I

Unknown: 30:34

mean, it's legitimate for real, the sorrow and I and my wife Christina, does work with people around this. I think that it's not only ours, from our own lifetimes. I think we are also carrying the inherited generational tears and pain of the people before us who are also made to work harder and suck it up and shut up. And, you know, what about the I mean, I'm in pain over here. What about this? Be quiet. Be quiet. Be quiet. And it's, I mean, no wonder the art your whole left side was black energy, yeah. How was your feminine being nurtured or even acknowledged at all? It wasn't.

Nicoa Coach: 31:17

And what I forgot was that it was my responsibility to foster that in many ways, but it didn't mean that I couldn't receive externally, and I'm still coming to an understanding here around that. So I'll get back to the question, though. So let's talk a little bit about the difference, and then let's talk about how people open up both sides in a more equitable, fulfilling way.

Unknown: 31:44

I think that one of the things that I have had the most success with, that I've been the happiest about in working with men around awakening their feminine is is actually a kind of a trick. So please don't tell anybody. Okay, I'm just saying. It's just breathing. It's just stopping, like it literally is just saying, okay, man, tonight we are going to sit and we're going to sit. What are we? And no, we do not have an outline. We do. Do we have an objective? Is this an objective item? No, we're not. No, no, no, no, no, no. We're just going to breathe, and then we're just going to be and then when we've done the sitting and the breathing and this being still. And I say, Okay, you open or open your eyes. Half of them don't want to open their eyes. They've just, they've dropped into their feminine, which is, you know about receiving and being open and nurture, and it's mysterious. And that's, I mean, we are starving. Men and women are starving for that in our culture, because our culture is so out of balance. And so for me, it's really about that thing that I talked about earlier. We go within and we receive, and that's the feminine and then out of that, we do the masculine work of saying, Okay, let's look at the story, let's look at the belief, let's look at the trauma, let's look at the expectations, let's look at the whatever. And then we do a process of saying, okay, so what am I seeing? And that's masculine work, right? It's, it's masculine energy, work of saying, What am I how do I sort that? What do I make out of that? And then say, Wait, and now I need to remember again. And that's again, the feminine so we go back. And so it's a, it's like a dance, or it's like a, it's like a flow

Nicoa Coach: 33:32

and Ebb and Flow. Yeah, I think you're right about the it's the challenge for our society, and we're, you know, we're both coming from the American culture, but it's very infiltrated throughout the globe now, especially with the Internet. But this culture of constantly doing and moving, and by the time this episode airs, I think it will be public knowledge. I'll make sure that I give enough time. But I'm also in the midst of going through a divorce from my second marriage, and part of the challenge for me in this process, and I'm pretty fresh in the process right now is the flow of it, because I'm excellent at the masculine energy of all right? Well, give me the facts, and I'll fix it, and I'll call 42 people, and I've already changed that, and I've changed that. And what else do you need? And when are we gonna have the agreement? My poor husband, he's the same way. So then you get those two energies together, and I'm over here going, right, right, right, right, right, trust, be, have compassion for myself. Sit quietly, yeah, lovingly. And you said it be with a capital, B, B, E, yeah. Most people don't know how to be. And this is like, I'm in a freaking PhD class right now. This is like, I've been doing this work for so long. I'm so proud of myself, but I still, I have not passed all the exams yet. No, you're right. Good point. That was a whole masculine analogy. It can't be done. It can't

Unknown: 35:17

honor you for how you were showing up, just being

Nicoa Coach: 35:21

Thank you real. I'm trying to really honor that part of me, and it sounds like you had to go through similar process. You gave yourself the gift. Gift of and you like how I deflect you gave yourself the gift of the year of art. Talk to me about because I think this feminine energy is about creating, right, being creative. So creativity can come in many way, shape, form. You know, even my social media, your social media, that's a creative outlet for me. I pray with that today, I told a really good dad joke, and you need to make sure you watch my story, because it's gonna

Unknown: 35:59

make oh my gosh, media all day, because I've been working all day. Oh my gosh, I'm just out.

Nicoa Coach: 36:03

It was a funny one, so it'll be there for 24 hours. Okay, but tell us about your art. I'm looking behind you and I see this fabulous like, is that a lion that

Unknown: 36:15

I painted on my wall back there? Because

Nicoa Coach: 36:18

you're a muralist as well as just an artist in general. So, oh, wow. The work you guys. That

Unknown: 36:25

was a that was an outlet, as I mentioned earlier, from when I was younger. And it was really, really helpful for me to process what I didn't know how to process, which was good. And so after I left 30 years of being a minister, there was a lot of ego death that had to happen. Because it was, I mean, I wasn't really a very good minister. It was, you know, it was 100 of us, and it was a crappy, little funky, really messy faith community on purpose, like that was our intention, you know, low to the ground and very scruffy. And at the same time, I my wife, Christina, and I moved from Austin, where we lived, to Santa Fe for two years, and we did a reset, and it was during covid, and we rethought everything. We thought we were going to stay there, but what happened was I got there, and on the one hand, I had a plan. I've got this online seminary I'm working with, and I'm building a program for and it's going to be great. We're going to get people, we're gonna do. And then there was another part of it was like, I want to die now. I have to die. I don't know anything. I don't understand what's happening. Why are we here? And so it was a lot of walking the dog in the mountains and just crying and being lost. And then, you know, and my wife was so patient, and was just like, are we do? Are we what are we doing? Are you going or do you have a job? Are you gonna get a job? Or what are we doing right now? Does anybody have a plan? Is there a plan? Is that too much to ask? I love you.

Nicoa Coach: 37:48

I love you. I'm holding space for you. Holding

Unknown: 37:51

space for you. I'm I don't want to kill you. I love you. You're wonderful. And so we navigated, I did a lot of art and a lot of stuff around the house, and a lot of scrabbling to try and figure out what to do next. And then I got to have a plant medicine ceremony, which was really, really beautiful. That connected me to, like, some deep healing from some deep trauma, and I realized, Ah, okay, I want to be here. I'm supposed to be here. I got something to do. I can do something else. And that's where story healing came from. Was that, that place of not knowing unknowing, which was really a remembering, right?

Nicoa Coach: 38:30

Right? Well, you talked about it as an ego death, you know. So what do you How would you succinctly define an ego death for someone who has Noah is not about to go take the Ayahuasca journey or whatever, and what is an ego death?

Unknown: 38:48

For me, ego death is really just the thing that I thought I was, or the thing I thought I had to be. Maybe that's not true. What's possible.

Nicoa Coach: 38:59

That's exactly right, who am I without filling the blank, yeah. I mean, even, as you know, we're sitting here with this divorce, and you know, who am I without the identity of wife? Yeah, who am I without the identity of marriage? And I even wrote an article once I was so brainwashed by my experience as a child with my parents who divorced when I was eight and got back together five years later. But it was during those five years I remember making a decision that I was not going to be single, because I listened to the stories my mother's trauma and her own journey with her girlfriends. I could hear them. We were in very small apartments, and I remember thinking, hell no, I am not going to suffer like she is. So I'm gonna be married. And I think that was a big driver from an ego perspective, after my first divorce from my first husband, stepping rather quickly, within a within a four year window, right back into it. And wow, talk, and I, I was the big proponent of, oh, I don't play by this American dream anymore. I my life by design. I do my thing, but just like you, I had to go, Whoa. What's happening? Why is this not fulfilling? And I want to talk about, how do you go inside like that? How do you take here it is, response, ability to the sun. Suffering that you're you're experiencing in a dynamic that it's not anybody else's doing, it's of your own doing.

Unknown: 40:41

You know, the thing that you talk about about, you know, you I'm gonna live my life by design. I'm gonna live on purpose, like I'm gonna be awake, I'm gonna pay attention, and the things that I'm doing, I'm doing out of it and a sense of intention, right? As opposed to I'm just showing up by default, and then the next thing I know, 20 years went by. What the hell just happened? Where am I? Who did this to me? I did this right for me, the real question becomes, when I'm working with someone, or I'm working with a group of people, or I'm working with a company, I did a strategic planning thing for a funky seminary last year, and my question to them is the same as I ask everybody else, which is, when you go within and you remember who you really, really, really, really are, can we just be okay with just being who we really, really, really, really are without all of the things that we've constructed about the story, the belief, the expectation, the the ego, the data, and then it becomes chaos for a while, because then the question is, well, what is that like? I don't if I take this, it's like Jenga. You know what I mean, if I pull this out and pull this out and pull this out and pull this out. But what we don't understand is, if we pulled it all away, if the whole tower came down, what remains is this beautiful, beautiful identity, which is eternal, which is love, which is light. That's the lie. The thing that we've been told our whole life is you're bad or you're not enough, or you're not okay, or you're not going to make it, or you need this, or you need that. And so for me, it's always, always, always about coming back to, let's What if we let it go like, what you're okay, just let it go like, what would I be then? And you go, I know, right. What would you be that? Wow,

Nicoa Coach: 42:30

yeah. Have you ever read any of Paul Selig channeled works

Unknown: 42:36

only like heard on podcasts? Yeah, I

Nicoa Coach: 42:39

read one of his. I've got a handful of his books, and I'll just randomly read them. And one of them, he says this mantra for the human being, you know, the the beautiful soul, having the human experience. He says, to come back into that center. He says, just repeat, I am here, I am here, I am here. I know who I am, I know what I am, and I know how I serve. And the answer is love. The answer is love. The answer is love. The answer is love. I don't care how you label it. The answer is love,

Unknown: 43:12

yes, absolutely.

Nicoa Coach: 43:16

Sometimes we have to love ourselves enough to let the Jenga tower fall, oh, in front of everybody, no matter what anybody thinks, says, Does and through the pain and it is. It is so hard and so liberating I have. I cannot tell you, I'm getting closer and closer to actually believing salary's words like, I'm still like, Are you sure? All right, okay, but I keep moving forward, so there must be some knowing, right? Is the remembering, the knowing my truth that I was born with, that my ancestors had, I keep moving forward in that knowing. I mean, I'm not kidding you. I am always, like, a mile down the road and I'm like, wow, Nicola, wait up. Like, okay,

Unknown: 44:08

I know. I know. I know what we doing? What are you doing? I mean, it's like in Genesis, when Adam and Eve eat the apple and then they hide from God. God plays a game with them. God walk, you know, it's this beautiful fable, right? God walks in and goes, Adam, where are you? Like, literally, let's in the tip. Adam, where are you like? It's hide and seek with a little child, you know exactly. Like, that's what our souls are doing with us all the time. Do what I mean? Like, I'm like, I got this plan, I got this thing, I got this deal worked out. I got and our soul is like, Okay, well, that's wonderful. So when you're done with that, I'll still be but that's fine, yeah. And when you're tired and ready for your I'll be here. I'll be waiting like, right? I mean,

Nicoa Coach: 44:57

you just described what I use in a workshop called My tipsy BFF. Oh, gosh, my tipsy BFF loves me unconditionally. My tipsy BFF knows everything that are my deepest heart's desires, and she also knows all my habits, and so, for example, like I do use this in a worship I'll say, so then I was yelling at my kid, and all of a sudden I heard this voice, and it was my tipsy BFF, and she's like, Oh, I thought we weren't gonna yell at our kids anymore. Oh, we're gonna, yeah, oh. We're yelling today, let me get some more wine. And she pours her glass of wine, and she just watches, because she will support me no matter my choice, right? And that's the soul, that's what you're saying. And your soul is always here to support whatever choice you make, because it is your journey, and it's never a straight line. And when it is, that's when you and your soul are kind of, oh, we finally figured it out. But usually it's a lot of choice points, a lot of zigging and zagging. And I worried about this little, little, this big six year relationship that I'm bringing to close. And I thought, holy crap, Nicole, what have you done? And then I thought, You know what? That was a choice point. And I healed, yeah, and I thank him. He may never see this perspective, but he showed up for me exactly the way I asked him to No, and that was frustrating for me, and I showed up for him. Yeah, and I've healed, and he's healed. And although we're struggling right now to break that bind, there is value in that, back to the stages of grief, and he's not ready for that, but he might be by the time this airs, I hope that for him, but it is not my journey. My journey says there was value in that, and I don't regret it at all.

Unknown: 46:56

But I mean, one of the things that I'm so clear about is that the soul is saying to us, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, to whatever, like, I'm gonna go totally f this up. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, right, burn. You're gonna grow. You're gonna expand. You guess I want this. And there was a, there was a part where I started, like, look back at my soul, my higher self, and go, are you sure you're in for all of this? Do you want? You want me to, like, get it together? And it was like, why I want to be what do you think I'm doing? I'm here. Let's go. Let's do it. All this,

Nicoa Coach: 47:28

everything, all the feels.

Unknown: 47:30

Come on. I want this. This is what I'm here, in which case we screw stuff up. I think we think we're screwing stuff up that we're not. I think we get, I mean, look at the near death experiencers. We get to the thing after this. That's an illusion. But you know what? I mean, we get and then they play the movie, and the whole thing is sacred, yeah?

Nicoa Coach: 47:52

Everything. My friend, who was an intuitive she since passed, but she told she called me one day, and I was out on the deck looking out at the water, and she said, I just talked with God. And I was like, Okay, I'm all ears. I'm like, I don't know what, what you whatever you call it. And she said, source, God, whatever God wants to feel all of it, from murder to orgasm. And I was like, do tell keep talking. What else did you hear? And I believe that now a lot of people ain't gonna believe it, but it's okay, because at the end of the day, those experiences are going to continue to happen, and whatever you choose to engage in, or you are led to either push against or lift up, I mean, that's just another experience. So go for it, man, I always tell my clients, you cannot get this thing called life wrong. It is just an experience, and I think that is why I so resonated with your messaging. You know, have you ever had to, at what point did you I feel really compelled, right? Like I'm wanting to run to the top of the mountain as as do most prop What do you call it, prophets, or what proselytizing? You know, at what point did you learn? Ain't everybody gonna follow along, and you gotta probably let them just go on.

Unknown: 49:20

I learned that in ministry, being in community with people, some of whom you know, we were having this meaningful experience week after week, year after year, and some people just kept showing up and not getting it. And I and, and what do you I mean for a while? Of course, being an American, white man, I was offended. What do you mean you're not getting Hello. I'm saying the thing, it was never about me, like it was never about me. It was always about what they were showing up for. And there, here's somebody else who is like having an amazing awakening, and then they go off and do their own thing. Great, good, good, good, good. I really think there are a whole bunch of people around us right now on the planet having this human experience who are not going to have an awakening in this lifetime, in which case they must be doing something else. Exactly,

Nicoa Coach: 50:13

okay? Yeah, great. That's okay. Do your thing. That's okay. It's not my business. That's exactly right out

Unknown: 50:23

of the way too, which is really better say that one more time, and then when my ego was out of the way, because it's not about me, it's not about success. It's not about results. It's not about, okay, well, you got it, so I win. I mean, what? What is that? That's what. I mean, that's so, again, that's that western expansion. And now I've got another, yeah, it's not just being with, it's just being with. Be with B, you said B, it's all about being and how about just being with? Like, I don't have to, like, you're not a commodity for me to manage.

Nicoa Coach: 50:56

It's all about that ego death, yeah, and letting go. You know, I like the phrase the path of least resistance, and that's been very helpful for me. You know, the question, What am I making this mean? You know, what would be the path of least resistance right now, and yet there's still this underlying of but just better make sure. But you know the surrender experiment by Michael singer, I read the book, and I read his other book to the Untethered Soul, and the surrender experiment, though, was pretty amazing, but he also didn't have all the attachments, so he wasn't as brainwashed about the societal or physical attachments. And I think that would be a really good journaling prompt for our listeners today, too. And I'm big into journaling. I actually created a journal with some of those channeled texts with props from those and it's a your life by design journal. And what I like about it is it gives people an opportunity to really play with, okay, who am I, without the attachment of my house or my my role as a mother, and really journaling that all the way out, right? All the way out, not just, Oh, I'm fine. I'm a human being, and I love everybody, and I go to wherever, but who am I really? And I guess that's to your point, that is the the the excavation of the soul, right? Yeah,

Unknown: 52:25

when we can see that the story or the attachment or the thing or the thing that we think we are isn't who we are. It's really outside of us. It's not like I'm, you know, I am this. I'm not this, you know, I'm not that, I'm not that, which case it's painful because you're so identified with the thing that we think we are, or that we have been, or that we have to be. And that's part of the work is the descent and the pain of the loss and the death and the sadness and the grief and the whatever else. And then there's the liberation and the freedom, like, I'm no I'm not that. Oh, it's

Nicoa Coach: 53:05

really a tricky, layered approach, and most people are afraid, actually, as we started down this path, is that they don't they think they're not enough, and they think they are bad and broken, and so they're afraid, if they get down there, that that'll be their truth. And I want to invite those listening that that is not the truth ever, and that you have as much value as the guy, the homeless guy in the corner, and, you know, Jeff Bezos with the billions of dollars and the Nobel Peace Prize winner, every single one of us is born enough. Our journey is to forget and then remember. And usually you do that around 40, that's what I get. My midlife crisis. Think of it's showing up. Oh, what are you 4050, Okay, it's time to talk. Let's talk. Let me remind you that you are enough and you'll die enough. You are enough, you are enough, you are enough, you are enough, and getting past the layers of trauma is the type of work that you're doing with story healing. And yeah, what else are you working on right now? This is a phenomenal conversation, and I'm so grateful that You allowed me to just go there.

Unknown: 54:17

It's my pleasure. Thank you so much. I'm writing an ebook which talks about the idea of story healing, which will be available through my website. And then my wife, the excellent Christina wisdom, whom I have mentioned, and I are going to be offering online course this fall. We don't have, we just met last week with a friend to help, like, think about calendaring and all that kind of stuff. That's going to be about the process of going within to the heart and then flowing out from there and making the determination about what I see, what I sense, what I feel, and remembering who we are, and all that stuff. I'm going to be doing some conferences this fall at different places. I've invited to do one in Nashville. I've been invited to do one in Fort Lauderdale, and it's going to be about the process of story healing and the principles around that. And one of the things that I want to do, too, is to feel into and figure out what it's like for people, for not I mean, I love doing an online class where there's a whole bunch of little zoom rectangles, but I also really like being in a room with people, and I know there's and ways to do that, so I'm just trying to get figure some hows about that, and I trust that my keepers and my helpers are all working on. On the details, because there's a big old grid of light that connects everything, and I'm just a part

Nicoa Coach: 55:35

of it. Oh, that's a beautiful way to say it. It sounds like so much great, so many great offerings. And keeping your beginner's mindset as you talk about on your website, I think, is the way to do it and let it unfold right, surrendering to the process, but following that little, that little nudge of ideas, you know. And I think the whole work around retreats for me is, I'm feeling led to bring more circles. And as my co host, Donna Dowson and I recently did, it was, it was a women's circle, and creating these sacred women's circles to hold space for each other, honestly. Nicoa, you know, my message for me is that it's you're just the guide, you're just the guide, and you're role modeling, and that's what you're doing for us. Rick, so I really am grateful to have you on. You know, it was really fun. This is what I crave, are these types of in depth dialogs about life unapologetically. And I'm just going to ask you one more question before we hang up, and that is, what do you love most about your life by design?

Unknown: 56:44

What I love most about my life by design is I am here like I'm all the way here. I am in love with my wife. I am in love with my dogs and my cat. I am in love with my yard, with the grass and part of it and the weeds in the other part of it. I'm in love with eating and smelling the air and sleeping and waking up, and I'm choosing to be here. Yes, I am full of gratitude for that. So yeah, it's

Nicoa Coach: 57:14

a sensory experience. If you're not fully engaged, then you're just setting yourself up for mediocrity.

Unknown: 57:21

Why sleep? Come on, wake up.

Nicoa Coach: 57:24

Let's go what? Live like you mean it. Rick, live like you mean it. This was a blast. You'll send me all the details for all of your stuff. I'll put it in the show notes and make sure we get the amazing Christina wisdoms information as well, and your books everything. Thank you for the work you're doing. Keep doing the men's work and keep offering up these types of experiences for people, because I think we're part of the wave. We're part of the change. Oh,

Unknown: 57:55

dude, it's happening. It's happening. Everybody, hang on. It's Hang on.

Nicoa Coach: 58:00

Life by design, baby, we love ours, and y'all can love yours too. We'll talk to you guys later. Thank you, Rick, thank you.

Unknown: 58:10

Thanks for joining us. For a caffeinated conversation. Subscribe to Coffee with nicoa for more stories from people living a life by design. You can also find inspiration on Instagram. Just follow Coffee with nicoa and check out our website, coffeewithnicoa.com and that's nicoa, n, i, c, O, A, we look forward to talking with you soon and enjoy your coffee between now and then you.