Beyond Words: Nima Abu Wardeh's Secrets to Impactful Communication for Career Success

Join us for a game-changing conversation with communication expert Nima Abu Wardeh as she dismantles the myths around confidence and redefines what it means to truly stand out. If you're ready to transform how you speak, listen, and present yourself in your career and beyond, this episode is for you!

What You'll Uncover in This Episode:

1. Debunking Confidence: Dive into why Nima challenges the traditional notion of confidence and how reshaping this concept can open new doors for personal and professional growth.
2. Nima’s 3 C’s of Confidence: Embrace a practical approach to building genuine confidence through Credibility, Comfort, and Consistency—elements that can revolutionise your impact at work.
3. Credibility Unpacked: It's time to move beyond degrees and titles. Explore how real credibility is shaped by your actions today - and your vision for tomorrow.
4. How to Be Comfortably Authentic: Learn why true comfort means more than the right outfit!
5. Consistency That Commands Respect: Discover how consistent actions and words significantly influence how others perceive and rely on you.
6. Supercharging Communication: Nima highlights why mastering communication is the ultimate skill that determines the quality and trajectory of your life.

Why This Episode Is a Must: Ever felt like you're just not getting through? Or maybe you've doubted your previous choices? Let Nima guide you through turning your communication into your most powerful tool yet. This isn’t just about talking the talk; it's about walking the walk and getting the life and career you deserve!

Favourite Quote: "Confidence isn't just about feeling sure of yourself; it's about being perceived as capable and reliable. It's about making your actions speak as loudly as your words."

Show Links:

Connect with Nima Abu Wardeh on LinkedIn

Connect with your host, Elizabeth Willetts on LinkedIn

Check out Nima's website, The Brilliant Communicator, here

Sign up for Nima's Free Webinar, How to Become The BRILLIANT Communicator in Your Niche, here

Boost your career with Investing in Women's Career Coaching! Get expert CV, interview, and LinkedIn guidance tailored for all career stages. Navigate transitions, discover strengths, and reach goals with our personalised approach. Book now for your dream job! Use 'workitlikeamum' for a 10% discount.

Transcript

Elizabeth Willetts: 0:01

Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life. I'm a working mom with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community. In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business. They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance. We cover it all. Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school. So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cosy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.

Elizabeth Willetts: 1:07

This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast. This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women. Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers. Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you. They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job? Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity. Now back to the show. Hi Nima, thank you so much for joining me on today's podcast, where we're going to be talking all about communication and how communication is our currency to a more fulfilled and happy career and life. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's brilliant to be here. Yay, I know. As we were talking before we hit record, you said that you don't like the word confidence, and I was really intrigued by that.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 2:23

I was like that's the first time I've heard somebody say that, so I'd be really interested to know why you don't like the word confidence because I find it can be weaponized meaning that people say things like oh, you know, that person isn't going to get that position or that thing that they're after because they don't have the confidence for the whatever. But nobody actually defines what confidence means for that person and why. You know what's the specific detail. Why did you turn me down? What is it that you want me to be doing differently? So that's what I mean by weaponized meaning. It's a decision somebody can make, people can make, and it keeps you down, holds you back. That's one.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 3:04

Two okay, what is confidence? You know what is it? It's different things to different people. That's the other thing with this word. So I'm not going to go into you know various definitions, but I like to break things down. I'm a practical person. I don't like BS and I don't like it when people say big words and don't define them or enable the person they're speaking with to do something with it or about it. So what is confidence? Do you want to know how I define constructing confidence?

Elizabeth Willetts: 3:34

Yeah, I mean talking to you. You seem like a very confident person. That would be how I would describe you, and I would mean it as a compliment.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 3:43

Absolutely I mean. So, don't get me wrong, we know that's the thing, we have a feeling. We know what we mean when we say confidence in this context, right? So I'm not somebody who is shy, I'm not somebody who is confused about what I want to get across, for example. These are examples of how something could be.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 4:01

You know, this person is confident, but the problem is when it's the keeping somebody back because they don't have it. That's the issue, right? So, for example, executives who want the next role, who are up for promotion, who are up for leading a project, the idea of confidence is really important, isn't it? And so, really, I suppose my message is two things. One, we kind of know what confidence is when we see it, but when it's used against someone, it's about, it's not about having a confrontation, it's about asking, inquiring. What do you mean by that? Can you define, can you give me a specific thing that you made? You make this decision about me? Right, that's one thing. But really, if we were to strip away, if we were to look at the elements of what I call confidence, right, there are three C's. So my thing is, I have my three C's which construct confidence, and they are credibility, being comfortable with who you are, what you do, how you get across things and being consistent. Do you want me to very briefly go.

Elizabeth Willetts: 5:07

I think so. Yeah, and I think this is where a lot of people maybe get concerned that they don't have. They worry, you know they will take in a big imposter syndrome and be into workplace and think they're not credible and that will feed them into their performance and how they come across. Yeah, Brilliant if you break it down.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 5:22

Okay, so first of all, I work with people who have credibility at the core. That's a really important thing, because without that, my reputation is shot. Their reputation is definitely shot, you know, when they're found out. So credibility is really important Because what is credibility?

Elizabeth Willetts: 5:38

Because I think that's it, because people get a new job and they and it's like you know if we're bringing it down to a job they maybe feel they don't have the track record yet to be credible.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 5:47

So exactly that. To that point, when I think about credibility, it there are two parts to it. One is what do I know and do now? So the now me, okay, what do I know because I've done it, my experience, my lived reality of the work I've delivered and the experiences I've had and the learnings that have come about right. So that's a huge part of credibility. And I say part of because sometimes in certain roles you need to have specific qualifications. And I say qualifications like that because sometimes letters you know after your name. That's not an indication of being credible, it's an indication of being qualified in the system, right. So credibility is slightly different to that, because it means that you have the knowledge, the know-how, the ability to be it and do it right. But it's also about future. You, for example, now you is in a certain role and you really want that other thing, that next success, next thing for yourself, and you're thinking, oh, I want that thing. Okay, what do I do? Maybe you've been turned down for a role, maybe you're too scared to apply for it in the first place, whatever that thing is. And it's the idea of do you believe that you are a brilliant choice for that next role If you don't break it down. What's the reason? If anything to do with credibility, example, oh, I need to have this experience first, I need to have that thing. So that's the nuts and bolts of credibility. Go and get that right, but also be it Meaning.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 7:24

I worked with somebody once and I loved what she did. She was really frustrated. She brilliant woman in STEM, she had to, so she was. There was a layer between her. I think he was the director or the chairman, I can't remember, but the top level, right, and she wanted the next thing for herself. She didn't want to be stuck in this role. So she actually went to LinkedIn and she wrote down in her profile something like the next blah, blah. You know, like it was the next level up, right. So she owned it. She said I want to be this next, and here's what I know about it. And her posts were about her thoughts. So she was creating thought leadership pieces, kind of. But just actually her experience, her interactions, her thoughts within the workspace, within her industry and within the things that she was doing. For example, she was at an exhibition. I remember one time she posted and it was her take on the niche that she wanted to move forward in right. So do you see that's quite a bit.

Elizabeth Willetts: 8:23

Do you know what it reminds me of? I've just read a book all about manifestation and there's a lady that I follow online called nor hibbert, and then she's on. It's like isn't it's manifesting, it's like I want to be this, and then actually all the steps to get there yeah, which as long for me.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 8:37

I don't know enough about manifestation to be brutally honest, and because some people say I remember somebody saying to me you know, if I think it and I put a thing up and it'll happen. I don't agree with that. I believe you need to actually do something about it.

Elizabeth Willetts: 8:52

Yeah, but she sounded like she'd done it, hadn't she?

Nima Abu Wardeh: 8:55

Which is exactly it. So she sat and it was a deliberate decision. What does she want for her next self? Her future self, which could be six months, three days or six years Right, and instead of waiting for permission. Next self, her future self, which could be six months, three days or six years right, and instead of waiting for permission. So I believe in permission, free versus permission, meaning there are gatekeepers all around us, right? Yeah, so if you've got a gatekeeper, could be hr, it could be yourself.

Elizabeth Willetts: 9:16

I think that's a big one yourself actually yeah, but it's the idea of.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 9:23

So let's remove self for a moment, because that is a big thing, right? So look at the gatekeepers around you and it could be as simple as I want people to know me for this thing that I love doing and I want to do more of. Maybe you're starting up your own business, or you want to be known as an expert in an area, something like that, so you don't need somebody's permission to share your credibility and your knowledge around that, especially. You mentioned LinkedIn, especially on a platform like LinkedIn, right? So it's about how do I let the right people for me know about me and what I bring to the table? Yeah, you can do it permission free. You don't need somebody's permission. It could be as simple as but I know it can be terrifying, by the way as hosting a q, a session on linkedin once a week, once a month, something like that to build up your credibility footprint. I call it. Yeah, how did we get onto this? Oh, confidence.

Elizabeth Willetts: 10:18

Yeah, the three, c's what you said made and so we've done credibility, but I, I literally like taking us. I'm like I love this, it's such good advice. Yeah, and I think it will definitely have to revisit this, because it's this bravery, isn't it being brave? And you know, and it's not easy, even to post on something actually that's quite fake, could be quite a faceless, you know, platform. It isn't really. But like LinkedIn, you know you could post and run away and, you know, not go back onto it the next week. I wouldn't advise that, but it does take a lot of courage yeah.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 10:48

The other thing, of course, is that you might, you know, just as a caution, when, when you post something, if it's not what you want to be known for, or if some of you don't stand by, remove it, because even if you don't post for many months or weeks, if somebody really wants to check you out, they can find that and they can, you know, draw conclusions or get a feel for you and it might not be the truth of your current you right. Yeah. So yeah, but absolutely to the idea of brave. You know, my big desire is to enable people to invent their version of success, and the common thread between the people that I have in my circle and people I love being around and working with is people who are brave enough, because it is brave, to invent their version of success.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 11:34

It doesn't mean that it always happens. Oh, it just happened because I wanted it. It's about actually having the gumption to sit with yourself and figure out what's going to break you, what's going to not break you, and because usually when we have a to-do list or a want list, it's huge, it's very long, but when you look at it from the perspective of what do I not want or what? What would break me? It's a shorter one, right, and so that the word brave is really central to everything here and just for everybody hey, it's okay to be brave and scared at the same time.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 12:05

Oh, I love that it doesn't have to be one or the other, it's usually both together and you get less scared the more you do that thing. That is scary right?

Elizabeth Willetts: 13:18

Yes, absolutely. I mean, if you take it back to the Q&A. So I do LinkedIn Lives and oh gosh, I remember the first time I did them I was like it's, the tech works, even the live. You know people watching, blah, blah, blah, whereas now you just don't think. The more you do it, the easier it does get. But then I'm doing something new in a couple of weeks that I am really nervous about.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 13:37

That's great, yeah, so you know you need to put in your reps whatever that is. You need to put in your reps so it becomes second nature and you don't have that. It is terrifying. The interesting thing is that people don't remember. There's this thing you know the spotlight effect. Oh, like everybody's going to notice everything and they're going to remember everything I said and actually they won't. It's really simple, they won't. And in fact, to bring it into the communication side, this is a really important thing to realize, which is that people won't remember everything you say.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 14:09

And if there's something important that you want to get across, you need to define it. You need to think to yourself what's the one thing? If people forget everything I say, what's the one thing I want them to remember and take away? And when you define that, that becomes the anchor. That is the thing that links whatever it is you're doing together beginning, middle end. You say it at the start, you say it at the end because you want to increase the chance of people remembering that one key, important thing. Now, it's not saying something that's important to you, by the way, it has to be something that's important to them, but how you are. The solution to that is how you link it together, right, yeah, so yeah, I mean that's a really important thing because people don't do this Right.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 14:54

So let's just finish the other two pieces. You've got the credibility piece the comfortable to come across as somebody who knows their stuff and embodies the knowledge and the track record and all these things. If you're not comfortable and it could be as simple as comfortable in what you're wearing, comfortable in what you're going to be sharing, comfortable in how you are, that takes away from your credibility. Right, and it's rubbish. It really is rubbish because it could be terrifying for somebody and then they could be sweating and salivating and it's not fair. But when I look across my career and dive into various things, being comfortable with yourself, if you were to give things waiting, meaning like, oh yeah, you know, let's score out of 10 and uh, how many points to go to credibility? How many points to go to comfortable? Comfortable will have more points than credibility because people will make the assumption wow, that person's really comfortable with what they're doing and saying and how they are. They must really know their shit you know?

Elizabeth Willetts: 15:55

yeah, I do know what you mean. Sometimes you get swept away with somebody, don't you that? I know you're not particularly fond of the word, but overconfident. You think they know what they're talking about. And actually you know, when you watch tv programs and it's the quiet people you, you know, you're thinking like trade I've done. If you watch traitors which is completely you it's like wink murder and they're trying to find who's the bad person murdering people. And it's the loud people that are like swaying the room and it's the quiet ones that know what they're talking about. No one's listening to them.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 16:27

It's interesting because when it comes to leadership as well, of course there's this whole thing of leadership is about listening. You know, it is about listening, listening, feeling the nuance, that the energy, the vibe in the room. Yeah, so I'm with you, but yeah, so that's so comfortable is a really simple thing, are you comfortable? And but when it comes to women especially, I find I wonder if there's an extra layer, because women they're a lot.

Elizabeth Willetts: 16:49

They judge themselves and they judge each other. You know can judge each other on about how particularly I think we are our own worst critics about how we look. We think, oh, we put on weight. And personally that does feed in into how I bring things into work.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 17:01

No, I totally get that, and in fact, that's what I was going to say, which is that I find that, with being comfortable, when it comes to women, what women wear is key, and it starts from the feet up. I'll give you an example. I'm on stage, I'm calling up somebody who won an award and they had steps. This is when you go oh, ping, ping, ping. Wow, why do they do that? Steps that lead up, no rail, right, she had shoes. She could not stand, let alone walk, and I'm not criticizing her, but what I'm saying is she then had to have some another, some one of the people backstage had to come and actually be her rail as she was escorted and what I'm. Why I'm saying this is because, for me anyway, this is again my definition of things. If you cannot literally carry yourself and be fidget free, right, fidget free, and it could be fidgeting with your hair, something, oh, you know something I do see a lot of people fidget with a pen, although I've got pens you know, but pens are kind of like cool sometimes.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 18:10

So if you look at photos of me, you'll see me I carry a pen, but I sort of use it as a pointer and a threatening tool. I think sometimes people go, but you know, but the it's the fidget, absolutely that not being comfortable with being still and with being in and with yourself. So with women. This woman I know, head of marketing, huge global organization, and she had been on her feet for the whole day and she messaged me at the end saying her feet were bleeding because she'd been in these lovely looking shoes but they were the wrong. Do you see what I mean? I 100% see what you mean. Yeah, all of us, by the way, have done this. So I always carry a pair of trainers. I'm wearing trainers. At the moment, you know, loads of people come up to me and have shoe envy because I'm in my trainers. They're in uncomfortable shoes, even if it's men with, you know, very shiny tights.

Elizabeth Willetts: 18:58

Yeah, so it's not actually dressing for success, it's actually dressing for comfort, absolutely, but you become successful when you're comfortable.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 19:04

Do you see? So the whole see thing, the comfortable.

Elizabeth Willetts: 19:07

Do you know what you made me feel better now? Because I'll show you what I'm wearing.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 19:11

Yeah, oh, I love that yeah, oh, I love that I'm standing slippers, I love that, but this is it, you know, especially now with the whole virtual world.

Elizabeth Willetts: 19:21

Yeah, do you, you do you? Yeah, I was gonna. I could have pretended I was in, like you know, big stilettos, but now I'm in slippers, really comfy shoe, really comfy trousers. I've got dressing on on my knee because it's end of April but it's still cold crazy weather.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 19:34

Yeah, now I've got my red um, I like that it's more, because that is it.

Elizabeth Willetts: 19:37

There's quite a lot of pressure, isn't it, to dress quite corporate because you know the thing is it's about what you decide.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 19:44

So it's about being brave that word brave really important to decide what that is for you. So, yes, I get the suits and blouses and whatever else that goes with that.

Elizabeth Willetts: 19:55

A clean look, let's call it a clean look yeah, and I mean we're fortunate I'm away from home. I don't know where you're based, but you know you do have that. But if you're in an office and everybody's in a suit, how do you sort of bring in your, or you have to wear a uniform?

Nima Abu Wardeh: 20:09

really, if there's anything you spend on, it's the shoes. That's my opinion, because it's his feet first. If your feet are okay, you are going to be okay in many ways because and it's not just the fact that your feet bleed if you're in these, you know uncomfortable, rubbing blisters and all that sort of stuff. It's tiring, it's bad for your back, bad for your posture, and you lose your energy and you're again. You're not in your zone. You know you're off balance, literally and metaphorically, slightly, with things like shoes that don't fit. Well, you can have a bit of a heel. I'm not saying don't, but I'm just saying it's so important to get the shoes right.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 20:48

So, for example, I have a program and one of the things is feel fit. Feel fit and flow, because it all flows from each other how you feel about yourself, what you're wearing and how, where you are, what you're doing, fit, fit of everything. But it starts with shoes upwards and flow, so that you are in your flow, meaning you are able to deliver. Yeah, you are able to have a conversation where you're just having an interaction and there's nothing else. There's no pain. My feet are killing me. There's no. I hope, my something, my blouse is whatever, or my hope, my hair, whatever, that thing is no fidget, so that you can be in your flow and to that point.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 21:29

So you've had the people with very lovely looking but not functional shoes trying to get on stage and it's all photo opportunity and it's huge. But people who are panellists as well, perhaps they're wearing less, you know, not such high stilettos and they're sitting there. But there's this thing about how do I look, even if you're not consciously thinking it, and it can be a fidget with the hair or something else. And really what that does for me is because I chair and host and train. You know, being on stage is a thing that I do. It takes away from your power is what it does. People aren't really just tuning into what you're saying, they're also tuning into everything.

Elizabeth Willetts: 22:12

The way you are. I mean, isn't there a stat that most communication actually is non-verbal? So yes, absolutely. I don't know if it's a made-up stat, but you know there's a stat that seems to get bandied about.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 22:23

It's 55% is what it is which is allocated to non-verbal. People use these stats a lot. So, for example, it's 38% is how you sound and how you come across with your words and voice. 38% is how you sound and how you come across with your words and voice. 55% is the nonverbal. But the guy I think it's Mehrabian, I think is his surname he did the research a long time ago and he caveated it with certain things and it's become like the gold standard. People never look back at the origin story of how did the research come about? But regardless of the stats, the truth is that, yes, we make nano like semi-instant judgment calls about people, not because we're evil, but because we are human. So all of our interactions with a sort of person like that come into play Our inherent biases. Because we are human, we are biased by default. We are never going to be unbiased.

Elizabeth Willetts: 23:13

And that is probably a survival mechanism from like millions of years ago, maybe, when we were all quite tribal.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 23:20

Well, the thing is about bias. Bias just means that you have an inkling towards something, right? So you could have a bias towards physics, you know. But the problem is that, again, if we don't define words I'm a big, I like defining words they become, they mean one thing to you and they'll mean another thing to me. So, whether it's confidence or bias, it is about defining what it means, but also about being not just led by these statements that are bandied around. Right, bias is never going to go away, but what I would hope for is that people are alert to their inherent bias, yeah, and they question it and they think, actually that's not fair, that's not right. I understand why. My default mode is this I didn't even realize that I do this and I'm going to be aware of that as I move forward. For example, right, this whole thing about bias and training goes into it. It is not doing its job. Actually, that's a whole different conversation, right? So the third C is being consistent. What do I mean it means? I'll give you an example.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 24:23

This really happened Annual conference, huge, big deal, construction industry right in the UK. Two women were given the opportunity to speak at this event. They don't know each other, just the only two women that were given the opportunity to speak at this event. They don't know each other. They're the only two women that were given the opportunity to speak at the event. They both turned down the opportunity and they nominated somebody else, and they happened to nominate a male colleague, but that's incidental. That's a different conversation. Again, my point is, these women were approached because they are saying in some sphere, we are experts in this, we want to be known for this, we want to do more of this, right? Yeah, so then they're given the opportunity to showcase their brilliance and to be part of the mix. You know what's going on, and they turn it down. You are not consistent when you do things like that, because why did you know why they turned it down? No, I couldn't connect with them directly, but I do know, from speaking to people who were involved, that a huge element of this was fear and concern, and you know they didn't feel that they were ready. Is the impression I got from speaking to the organizers right, who were direct point of contact.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 25:26

The point, though, is that and it could be do you want to showcase your project at the next team meeting, for example? You know it doesn't have to be a conference. Yeah, it could be. It's anything. Do you want to be interviewed for our internal newsletter? You know, whatever that thing is right If you are signaling I am great at this, I want to be considered for things and I want to be known for this, and then you're given an opportunity to showcase it, spotlight it, highlight your credibility and raise your profile, and you turn that down.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 25:57

You're up against two issues. One, you're not going to be asked again if it was me, because what I mean is I used to do TV. I spent a lot of time finding, looking for the ideal guest for a certain slot and credibility, track record papers, whatever. You know that all goes into it. So when you approach that person and they say, no, I am not going to waste my time, I have a weekly to fill, we're on air. You know I'm not going to do that again because it wastes my time and I end up with a black hole potentially. So it's the first whammy like which is you're not going to be the first option again, or any option again, you don't know, depending on what the issue is right. Two, when you believe you are ready, oh, I feel good. Now, I've had training and whatever.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 26:46

You have to overcome the perception that people have as a result of your behavior that you might pull out, that you're not a safe pair of hands. Essentially, you're not reliable Exactly. And so when you are clear about what you will and won't do. So imagine that you are great and you are brilliant and you want to be known for something, but you're very clear, saying I'm happy to do this, I'm not happy to do that, for example. So about clarity when you're clear, people around you are clear, they know what to expect from you, and that is priceless because it means that they can trust you. Right, you are a safe person. You do what you say. You do yeah. So that's why consistency is so important. If you say you want to be known and you're offered an opportunity, you need to be consistent with what you say and step up and do it. And that's not to say that you might be terrified and you might think that you won't do a great job.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 27:36

Remember the spotlight effect. People won't remember everything. What they do remember is the feeling that they took away from that interaction with you, and it could be as simple as you know standing in a queue for lunch and you think, oh, you know, elizabeth is great, you know, just for that interaction, yeah, I must invite her over. The next time she's around in the office I'm going to get her to talk to the team about the thing that we just spoke about, because Elizabeth is that person right, or it could be you know somebody X. Oh no, I don't want to be around them. Again, it's not conscious things that people say to themselves, although some do. It's the impression that somebody has about you and the feelings that they have as a result of that interaction and decisions that are made as a result, which impact you perhaps for the rest of your life, if you are not chosen for that mega thing that you want.

Elizabeth Willetts: 28:25

I think I suppose the devil's advocate thing is you might be approached for something. It might be an amazing opportunity, but it might just be the wrong week. You know, you might be on holiday, there might be a million things going on at home. How do you say no in a way, that's just a not yet, but please approach me in a few weeks, it's about clarity and boundaries.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 28:45

Again, this is a real story, right, head of HR was beating herself up. She's a woman, the head of HR and she shared with me that she realized that she had made a decision on behalf of someone without giving them any choice, right? So she was referring to a woman who had recently given birth. She was on maternity leave and the head of HR was allocating a golden opportunity. It was a training thing and everyone wanted this and there was one slot that was being given out and she realized that person is the best person for this right and she didn't approach her or tell her, inform her, she just dismissed her, she took her off the list. She's not considered because she's human.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 29:24

This head of HR was using her perspective. When she was a new mum, she did not want to be doing this sort of thing. She wanted to have that time with her children, right? And so she imposed her perspective and her bias which is the bias too, yeah on the employee who wasn't there, who was on maternity leave. So we had a chat and then, you know, it was really simple have a conversation. So she picked up the phone and had a chat with the woman and they came up with a solution. The solution was that they would go. She would have this opportunity. She was chosen, she got it and it would happen when school holidays were on, so that her and her other kids and husband could go and they were all together and she could do the thing and be with her baby, you know. So there was a solution.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 30:03

But the point there is that somebody like that so imagine you are the woman who's going on maternity leave right, it's about being very clear and saying I'm going to be off for three months, six months, however long, whatever it is that you're doing, I do want to be approached for opportunities to do with XY. I will be personally, I would say even things like it depends on what your role and other things. But have a. You know, bring the baby in for a coffee virtual every Thursday for half an hour. You know, have a touch base, for example. But it's about being very clear about what you want for yourself. I am taking time off for this reason, but I am not disappearing and I'm still very much this person, the person who is this expert and wants these things Right. So do not have that conversation with HR. Have that conversation with your team, have a conversation with your boss. It's about being clear, yeah.

Elizabeth Willetts: 30:57

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that is I mean from my perspective. When I'm on maternity leave, you know it was me as much as work, but it feels like you disappear and I didn't advocate for myself. And you know, like talking to you, I'm like, yeah, these virtual meetings do sound a good idea because it does keep you in the loop, it does retain that confidence. I know you don't know, but this is the thing that people lose, don't they, when they're out of the workplace, for whatever reason, absolutely.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 31:22

Look, the word confident is fine. I'm you know. I use it in the sense I'm writing a book, by the way, and it's part of the book. I explain why I'm anti the word when it's bandied around and can be used against you. Yeah, but to your point, I think. One of the things, though, is when you are committing to meetings on a regular basis and you're on maternity leave. I think that's a big deal. Personally, I wouldn't do that. What I would do is I would say hey, let's touch base. You know, say you had something half an hour that people would get to do something that they want to do, or lunchtime, and you, literally you have your lunch with your baby and your colleagues virtually 10 minutes. It could be 10 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever, but it's just about you're still part of the mix, yeah, and you're still part of the world water cooler conversation kind of thing as well, right, that's really important if people want to know more about this. By the way, I'm writing a book yeah, yeah, absolutely, I'm definitely going to.

Elizabeth Willetts: 32:16

Before we close, the one thing I wanted to ask you I know you've got um a meeting shortly is about it sounded like it's you talked about people that were successful or successful at building like internal networks. If we, you know, basically being quite likable I guess in the in the queue for lunch how do you sort of build that rapport with people so you can build your influence and network in a workplace?

Nima Abu Wardeh: 32:40

Okay so, I'm not the right person to ask about how to be likable, because I'm actually the person who is. If you're in the right place, then the right people will value what you provide, what part of the jigsaw puzzle you are, because it's all a jigsaw puzzle. We're all fitting in together. It's kind of like a bit of a movable one, right? So I'm not saying be dislikable, no, but what I mean is this is the thing right. When you're really comfortable with yourself and you're still like, oh, you know, oh yeah, I can step that, I feel good, I know how to do this and I feel good.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 33:14

When you have that sort of feeling about you, you you're automatically likable, if that makes sense, because what we feel leaks out of us, it just becomes around us. And there is lots of research around cortisol levels and all the rest of it where, if I'm so stressed or even if I'm really keeping it tight to my chest, it leaks out and it impacts the people physically around you. So this is not just pontificating and saying fancy words. These things actually have a physiological and therefore physical down the line impact. So really, if you want to be likable, like yourself first, there you go.

Elizabeth Willetts: 33:50

I like that. Work on yourself first and then it will just ooze out. Yes, absolutely. Is there any final tips you want to give before we wrap up about yeah, about you know, being this strong communicator and being seen as you know, maybe an expert in your field, or just getting what you need from working home?

Nima Abu Wardeh: 34:08

okay. So a simple message to women, right is, before you make a major decision, let's say leave or go part-time or whatever it might be the right decision for you, because your life is unique to you, your needs and wants yes, but find out, get in touch if you want to what I call the financial facts of life for females, because the decisions that you make will have an impact. And I'm not saying don't do it, but I'm saying do it in a way that mitigates the risk of you being broke before you die. It's a real thing, folks. So that's one. Two getting buy-in for what you need and want means that you don't hit the wall in the first place, right, and so the core skill that I would really implore is the word I would use actually people, but women especially to take on is how to communicate effectively. It sounds like it's the most boring thing in the universe, but it actually. There's a direct line between how well you communicate and how well your life turns out.

Elizabeth Willetts: 35:02

Oh, I like that. That's made me shiver a bit. That's a good one.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 35:05

Yeah, it's true. So if you can communicate, it doesn't mean that you are a good communicator, meaning I say good words and they come out clearly. That's not what I mean. It means that actually you are able to get an idea, a need, a thought out of your head into the other person's head in a way where they feel, oh, that's a good, that's really actually. Yes, I get that. I see why this is important, and it's important to both of you, not just you, it's important to them too. So it's about understanding how communication happens.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 35:37

Communication is both an art and a science. I call it algorithm and alchemy. There are rules that I've come up with basically to communicate brilliantly, and there is the magic of how you are and who you are, and you need to be you right. You're not going to be a clone of me or anybody else. You need to be you. So it's that, and at the core of it is the idea that if you can solve somebody's pain and take them to a pleasure state and I mean by that pain free, yeah and you are able to get across how you are the person who does this in your way, with your method and way, and and brilliance and track record and experience. That that's the key. It's the ability to be known as the solution ie for your expertise and what you want to be doing by the right people at the right time, which is when they have an issue and they want a solution.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 36:33

And just to end, I've never applied for a job. I've worked with global brands and you look at my LinkedIn profile, for example Very impressive LinkedIn profile. It's all by invitation and it's all because they had a problem and they thought who can do this? And my name came up and that's what I want for everybody. So, whether you're in the corporate world or you're not, whether you're working or not, take ownership of your own life. This is the ultimate DIY moment. Don't wait for somebody else to come and save you. Nobody's going to save you. And figure out what you need right now so that you can sustain your sanity, being solvent and your version of success right. And at the core of that is, if you can't get your ideas and needs and wants out in a way that resonates and gets buy-in from the person you need, a yes from. It's never going to happen. Sorry, which is quite a downer, but it's true. Yeah. So the upper is hey, you can do this, and it's easy when you know how so how do you help people then?

Elizabeth Willetts: 37:33

how do you, how do you help them with?

Nima Abu Wardeh: 37:34

the how so you can see my website right. The brilliant communicatorcom yeah, we'll put all the links in the show notes, great. But if people want to just go and have a nosy and a bit of a read, what I do in a nutshell is take one thing I do is pass on what I call a toolbox. Yeah to how do I communicate effectively. And the type of interaction is actually irrelevant at the beginning, because the way you interact could be like we're doing right now. It could be in the kitchen with your teenager, it could be on stage, it could be in a meeting with a client. So these are all types of interactions, but the core of how to communicate effectively.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 38:11

Because you want a yes. By the way, the only thing I ever want is a yes. Will you take the rubbish out? Yes, will you give me a pay rise? Yes, will you buy from me? Yeah, you know, if you think about it, the only thing we want is a yes. So how do I do that? How do I increase the chance of getting that yes that I need from the stakeholder that I want a yes from? And I've got a really simple how to do this system Very, very simple, because I'm interested in not creating clones and enabling people to do it for themselves.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 38:39

The way I work is I'm going to be hosting periodic full day intensives I call it an intensive the breathing communicator intensive and you walk away from that with your own plan and the basic fundamental toolbox, and then people who go through the intensive have the option of doing year long mastermind with me if they want to continue the journey, because the big thing is you can know everything and not do it, because we're human, so it's about implementing right. How do you become the go-to person for your brilliance? How do you raise your profile in a way that gets people to go? Oh yeah, we need this. Who's the person? And your name comes up. Right there you go. I hope I've answered your question.

Elizabeth Willetts: 39:19

Oh, my gosh, you have what a what an inspiring conversation. I've loved it. I would have carried on talking to you, so thank you so so much. Let's do it again. We will definitely do it again and get some more tips, but it's been brilliant to chat with you. Thank you so much, nima, for joining me today.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 39:35

Elizabeth, thank you. Thank you for having me and I look forward to meeting you in person.

Elizabeth Willetts: 39:39

Absolutely. I will try and come to one of Rebecca's LinkedIn locals Brilliant, all right you take care.

Nima Abu Wardeh: 39:45

And yeah, how brilliant is the internet. We met each other Fantastic. More power to you, by the way. Thank you so much.

Elizabeth Willetts: 39:52

See you soon. Bye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the work. It like a mum podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend. If you're on linkedin, please send me a connection request at elizabeth willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode. You can also follow my recruitment site investing in women on linkedin, facebook and instagram. Until time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.