Adriane and Steve are back with their complementary accents and worldwide appeal for part 3 of our series on how to make more money + sales in your established course or coaching program.
Today’s episode focuses on sales – and specifically – the 7 types of buyers you encounter during your sales process. Whether you’ve got ‘Decisive Desi’ (the buyer we expect everyone to be) or ‘Factual Fallon’ (she can be a wee bit triggering, NGL) or ‘Synergistic Sydney’ (she runs her biz on vibes alone) leading with respect means meeting each where they’re at.
Quick overview of what we cover:
CHECK OUT STEVE + ADRIANE'S PROJECT:
LISTEN TO MORE EPISODES WITH STEVE:
RESOURCES:
CONNECT W/ STEVE:
Adriane and Steve are back with their complementary accents and worldwide appeal for part 3 of our series on how to make more money + sales in your established course or coaching program.
Today’s episode focuses on sales – and specifically – the 7 types of buyers you encounter during your sales process. Whether you’ve got ‘Decisive Desi’ (the buyer we expect everyone to be) or ‘Factual Fallon’ (she can be a wee bit triggering, NGL) or ‘Synergistic Sydney’ (she runs her biz on vibes alone) leading with respect means meeting each where they’re at.
Quick overview of what we cover:
CHECK OUT STEVE + ADRIANE'S PROJECT:
LISTEN TO MORE EPISODES WITH STEVE:
RESOURCES:
CONNECT W/ STEVE:
When you can make someone feel that's really, and even someone who's not an emotional Emily, if you can do it really well. You get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you get the, you get the feels. Even Steve is not an emotional Emily buyer, but if it hits, me if I get hit, if I get hit like I'll never let go Jack, and then Jack's floating to the bottom of the ocean, boom.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Soulpreneur show, a podcast for a new generation of leaders, visionaries, disruptors and trailblazers who want to do business better. Our goal is to provide you with stories and insights into the strategy, systems and soul behind scaling, service driven, impact first, human centric businesses to help you create time, financial and lifestyle freedom. We want you to have a business that you not only love and pays you well, but that prioritizes what you want for your life, so that you can take actual unplugged vacations, you can step away from social media and you can spend your time doing things you love with the people you love. Let's get to it.
Speaker 2:Where are we going today? Hang on. So where have we been? Let's just think about that and pay homage to our previous previous episodes, which are also hey, if anyone's paying attention at home, there's no surprise that there are these pillars I would say pillars of destiny that we're talking about because, believe it or not, adrienne and I have got together for a reason, and the reason is to come and hang out with you all on the potty, but at the same time, it's because we believe that service driven scaling is a project that needs to be sent out to the world, and the way that we're doing things and the way that no like and trust is no longer enough. Respect is the secret mystery VIP guest at this table, and the way of the bro, the way of the woo, no good anymore. So we're putting together a program that just happens to be four pillars long, wide, tall, and we've gone through. Have we gone through three of the pillars?
Speaker 1:Is this our third? Today is the third Today is the third. Today is the third, and then, yeah, we've got one more after this.
Speaker 2:But what are we talking about today? What are we talking about today?
Speaker 1:Well, we're talking about sales. So this is it's a natural lead in. There's a natural lead in here Sales. We're gonna talk about the actual sales process behind selling. Because we've talked about marketing and marketing can have some overlap with selling and we intentionally tried to stay away from talking too much about, like the actual conversion mechanisms of the sales conversion mechanisms or there are lots of different conversion mechanisms and launches are part of the sales process, which we're gonna be talking about next week for events. So we're gonna talk properly about selling.
Speaker 2:Where does the sales come in for people who don't like? Some people are just gonna go straight from marketing messaging enough purchase, boom. The sale happens automatically. If the product is right, the price is a certain level, it might not need an actual sale. What are your thoughts on that, adrienne?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm gonna. There will be some, I think, yes, for certain buyer types. So your messaging can be spot on. You can have a fantastic event, which we'll get to next time, and a fantastic event master class, challenge, webinar, whatever it is that you're doing, training series, whatever and you can have all of the right things in place. And there are going to be buyers who just don't, who just aren't ever gonna, just are never gonna go along with it. So there are seven buyer types. So, if you're so there's. The first one is the person that you're speaking about. So I call this buyer type decisive, desi.
Speaker 2:Decisive desi.
Speaker 1:They all have cute names. So, but the thing is so decisive desi is someone who it can be a little bit of an impulse buyer, like if all the stars align, the magic comes together, the way that we're all hoping it does. This buyer type is someone who's yes, they're going to buy very quickly and sometimes even if not all the stars have aligned, but most of the stars have aligned, if all the stars have aligned but Mercury's in retrograde, then decisive desi is probably gonna pull the trigger and just go for it because that's who she is. All these are girls. We're just gonna say they're all she's right now, but it doesn't, gender does not matter, but they all have girls names.
Speaker 1:So I guess desi, desi arenas could be either, and we are too often expecting everyone to be that buyer type. So, to go back to answer your question, there are six other buyer types that if the messaging is amazing, if the event was amazing, if all the other things were amazing, you still should have some other pieces in place to make sure that you are respecting the way that your people want to make decisions. So we talk about I don't know if we've talked about this yet the golden. I talk about the golden rule that goes all the way across business. So you've got think about like did you learn this thing? Was this a thing in kindergarten, when you were in school? Did you even have kindergarten?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like we just thrown out into the bush for a year when we're three years old, and if we survive we come back. If not, you know whatever, good luck.
Speaker 1:That's. The things are making so much more sense now. No, okay, yeah there you go.
Speaker 1:So where you learned like treat others how you want to be treated, was that like the thing in kindergarten that you golden rule? So it's essentially that, but there's an asterisk on it is you can apply this to marketing, to your curriculum, to literally any part of what you're doing. Treat other people, do the thing the way that you would want it done to you or the way that you would want to experience it, but asterisk, make sure that it works for them. Make sure that's actually gonna work.
Speaker 1:So sell the way that you would want to be sold to you. And I really want to come back to this concept to talk about like buying process, because if your sales have plateaued or slowed down or you don't, it doesn't feel great to sell this way anymore. There's a really good chance that there's something off about your buying process that you are not able to replicate it at scale. So it's one thing to have a buying process that works for you with wherever you're at right now, but plateau or decline there's a good chance that you cannot replicate that process at scale, and I love processes. So I want to come back to that. But, like getting on the, you've got to meet people where they are. Like it is respectful of your people to say that I understand that you might not be someone who's just like this is right and I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1:So there are people who are analytical buyers. I call her analytical Anna, so that's someone who buys processes. Speaking of process, so if you're able to articulate, this is the ABC and the 123 of what's gonna happen from beginning to end of us working together. Like she likes wants to know what your methodology is or your framework. Like she really wants to understand the process that you're gonna put her through him. Through that they're gonna go the journey that they're gonna go on with what it is that you're teaching. They do not want to take a leap of faith is critical.
Speaker 1:That type of buyer is not someone who's just gonna be like this feels good, this just feels right.
Speaker 2:But those buyers exist, right, but you've just got to separate, you've got to make sure that's. I think that's a really key point is we're not saying you need to create five different landing pages that are five for five of these or four of these personas. You need to make sure that there's elements of each ticking those boxes to capture them right.
Speaker 1:Here is the life hack, here's if you never. The thing I like to say when I run my own digital events is the thing I like to tell people is like here's the thing that if I never see you again another day in my life, I hope that I do, I hope that we'll work together again, but if I never see you again, this is the thing that you better take this home with you. Here's your gold is you can apply this concept of like if you understand the different types of buyers in the way that people make decisions and you understand now that is buyer psychology. That's the light side of the force of buyer psychology is, you can layer this.
Speaker 1:when you build an email sequence, you make sure that you write each email to a different buyer type and address all of them. When you go to write your sales page, you make sure that there's at least one section that addresses each of the things. When you go like it's not rocket science but you can fit like as long as you understand that there are people, and most people are a combination of buyer types, if you want me to go through it the rest of them, I will, but we don't have to But-.
Speaker 2:I think we should. But yeah, keep on this train, and then we'll come back.
Speaker 1:So it's when you are able to address the way that people feel safe. That's what this really comes back to is. I want people we had a discussion a few weeks back if anyone's listening to this on like, the private version of what we're doing they would have to like go, and actually I'm pretty sure this wasn't a part of that. I think it was a part of one of the other episodes that we did. Was we talked about like. Marketing is like dating. Selling is like sex and it's very much a part of like.
Speaker 1:If you want to respect your partner in this sense, your partner it's just the person that would be buying from you. They're all different kinds of relationships. It's just different kind of relationship is, if you want to have respect for that person, help them feel safe Like. That goes for any relationship, but it's like there's so many parallels to why that works. Respect equals safety. There's so many ways to create that sense of I want to honor wherever you're at. That's gonna go a long way that, even if they don't buy from you this time, that's part of marketing while you're selling, it's creating that sense of safety because they know that, even if they don't buy this time, if they come back around next time they're going to have a good experience.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and I think that's where a lot of people go. Oh, but that's hey, steven, that's just the trust aspect of no like trust.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, it goes well beyond that, way beyond, way beyond into the respect realm.
Speaker 2:That's huge. Huge to think that this bio psychology has been around for millennia, Like it's really old, it hasn't changed. And that's why it's so interesting when it's like you look at all these new, hey, here's the new way to do this, the new way to sell this, the new marketing tool. That's hot Dude. It's all grounded in the same start-fry. It's all these buyer personas and buyer psychology and making people feel heard and understood and connecting with empathy to make sure that they have that trust, that safety. They're like huh, this person gets me. That's what you want.
Speaker 1:This person gets me.
Speaker 2:And some people feel gotten. Is that a word? Some people feel gotten by the pie in the sky dream. What were they called?
Speaker 1:Decisive Desi.
Speaker 2:Well, who's the pie in the sky? Who's the pie in the sky? Hopes and dreams? Buyer persona.
Speaker 1:Probably gonna be synergistic Sydney. How do you like?
Speaker 2:that Synergistic Sydney.
Speaker 1:I was trying to make them not have any use the same first letter.
Speaker 2:Other words, it would have been energy. Yeah, synergistic Sydney, who's like whoa, here's the big pie in the sky. I mean, if you just did that for analytical Anna, not gonna work Right, Annie you okay, you okay, annie?
Speaker 2:No, I'm not. I need the process, I need the details. So you need to give, you need to. So this is where, like the golden rule, like meet people, where, like sell to people how you would like to be sold, but slash asterisk it's, but make sure you fit it to how they feel understood and how they feel safe. Yeah, oh, magic.
Speaker 1:It's really good, and this is why I think it's critical to distinguish that this is for specifically someone who, who is further, a little further along in their journey, because I do not, if you're listening to this and you are like, I've really not made many sales yet or really not is. It would be. I'm not going to recommend to you that you try and understand all these by like. You need to figure out how to make sales first. This is, we're not trying to accomplish everything all at once but.
Speaker 1:If you're trying to replicate at scale. This goes back to that concept. It's if you're not addressing all of these different styles of buyers, like at this point, you're you're beyond people who just want to make purchases the way that you do. It's also like.
Speaker 2:I think like this again, the connection and the overlap between this and curriculum, right. So when you're building, when you're building curriculum just to get back on my little, my little side of the force is like a simple, really simple structure is what like when you've got a concept, what it is, why it's important, how do you do it, and then what now? So what, why, how, what now is a really great simple structure to make sure that you're ticking off all of the different ways that people like to consume information and that overlays into all of your alliterated buyer personas. But it's the same same, same. Same same, but different. It's, yeah, the what people want, the what, the why people are motivated by the, the mythical why, and then the how people are more doers. But then the what now are the people that want to implement straight away. They want to know what steps do I take next? If you tick all of those off in your learning material, you're going a long way to really connecting with the learners.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Hmm, there's a good you said. You said you learned something from me. That's a good thing.
Speaker 2:There it is, there it is.
Speaker 1:From you, there you go.
Speaker 2:Boom, boom boom.
Speaker 1:I like it, I like it, I like it.
Speaker 2:Who else have we got?
Speaker 1:There's Emotional Emily. This could also be a little bit of like the pie in the sky as a reasonable buyer. For sure, like I think it could be the synergy buyer also, but I think there's a lot of overlap between the two.
Speaker 1:So emotional buyers, someone who, like they really want if you have a phenomenal story, that talks like, if you're really good with storytelling, that's going to really be compelling for someone who's an emotional buyer, it's also a possibility buyer. So that speaks to the aspiration and you want to like show the journey of this is what's, this is what's possible. And too many people rely on the emotional buyer because we want to speak to. You know, we don't want to speak to pain points, we don't want to agitate pain points. We want to talk about what's possible. We want a future pace, we want to open the possible, which is super helpful, but not to everyone.
Speaker 2:Yes, so would it be fair to say that the like, those people, the future pace and the ones that are motivated by the story and the why and all this sort of stuff, is it sort of like you're using statements on your page like imagine this, or like you wake up and it's day six of the five day challenge and this is what you've got, this is what you're able to do, like that sort of stuff is what? What is connecting with those sort of people?
Speaker 1:Honestly, it's like this is where you can get into, where you can just easy and I'm going to say this in a way that's going to sound a little harsh, it's a little lazy where you can just go into your voice of customer data and say you can, let it's, I could, I could write your sales page in a half a minute with this. So not not the whole thing, but like this section is to just go like imagine it's six months from now and and you're able to just hop on a plane first class anywhere in the world and you're going to. You know, you can go buy your Chanel bag and you've got like there's. You open your phone and there's new payment notifications at every time you, you know, every time you open your email browser, like you really can, it's so everybody wants that.
Speaker 1:I mean maybe not everybody wants the first class travel and not everybody wants the Chanel bag or the Birken or the whatever Not everyone's like. Well, I want my Luba Tons. Everyone's got different reasons for buying, but if you know that that's your audience, then that's going to be really powerful for the majority of them. Or if you know that your audience is like you know you're going to, you're going to wake up six months from now and you're going to realize that you can go to your kid's soccer practice and not have to buy your own Nice.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, like you can. That's future pacing, and it can be very powerful. The problem with this is, even people who buy like that have now become aware that future pacing doesn't actually dictate what they're going to get from something.
Speaker 2:Correct Yep, and that's outcome, outcomes, right. So that's again, this overlap between, if you're going to future pace, something flying in the sky that you can't deliver in the curriculum, that's going to be the first place that we look right. Hey, you said that they're going to be off their phones at the soccer match. Show me where, show me where your curriculum allows them to do that. But beautiful, oh my gosh, beautiful. So hot tip if you do not have a future pace statement in your sales page or in your process, probably put one in, and, as you saw, adrian was able to come up with one in like less than 30 seconds on the fly. It's really easy.
Speaker 2:It's literally imagine, imagine it's insert period of time. Yeah, how good would you feel knowing that. Dot dot dot, there you go. There's the script.
Speaker 1:It's super easy and I would. But here's the thing is. I imagine probably most people do already have that. It's the other stuff that needs to be. Yeah, and I would also say that if you're going to have a future paced section, it's time to go back and tweak it, excuse me, and make it more specific or make it more reasonable, like when I future-pace things for so I've got an operations program right, so it teaches team structure, systems, etc.
Speaker 1:So, when I future-pace, it's not you know. Imagine yourself six months from now. You're sitting on a beach. There's no problems in your business, you've saved, you've gained back 15 to 20 hours of your time, like all that stuff is incredibly possible. But we're also not talking about the disaster that they could be coming back to if they were to do like we could get you there in six months, but probably you're gonna have like I talk about my holy grail metrics you're not gonna be meeting. You're not gonna be meeting. They're not going to be meeting all four of them, because one of them dictates that you come back to only having less than an hour of work. You're not gonna accomplish that within six months.
Speaker 1:So when I talk about future-pacing, it's what you will eventually have, like within six months. It's possible that you could have some of the stuff. So it's I'm careful, I'm really. This is very like what's the giver, I think, uses. I'm very I like precise language of. You know, I don't want to paint a picture for someone that's going to paint puppy dogs and rainbows and unicorns, and so it's going to be completely unreasonable. But having an emotional connection with your buyer is really. It's why I think we've talked at some point about like Super Bowl ads, because I remember being like you even. Do you watch the Super Bowl in Australia is, you know, like back to the Budweiser? The Clydesdale horse that you know meets the little giant horse with the little tiny puppy there.
Speaker 2:So it was years ago.
Speaker 1:And I, like I still remember that commercial Budweiser, top notch, killed it with that commercial, the scene from Mad Men that I love to talk about, where it's the carousel, the carousel scene, where he's like he brings up you can't sell nostalgia. But he figured out how to do it by showing people like this isn't, it's not a wheel, it's a time machine, Like when you can make someone feel that's really, and even someone who's not an emotional Emily. If you can do it really well, you get them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you get the, you get the feels.
Speaker 1:Even Steve is not an emotional Emily buyer Like Brie roasted you earlier for something like. You're just figuring out your feelings, that's it. I'm just figuring it out.
Speaker 2:But if it hits me, if I get hit, if I get hit like I'll never let go Jack. And then Jack splot into the bottom of the ocean, boom Music, cue music. I find I find music in films Like that is, that's the, that's the, my kryptonite right there, dude, Like if you, whoever's you know, baz Lerman and your little orchestra of destiny. Fair play to you, dude, because words by themselves cool, but then you overlay the right song or the right tune. I'm out.
Speaker 1:Music is music is a character in a movie, but that's story marketing right Story marketing, storytelling, story showing, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:Come into the, come on the wait list and come with us Like we'll take you on that journey for sure.
Speaker 1:Here we are. Was that the end? We're the wait list and now it's time for another. Get to know Steve and Adrian. Here's the Q and A right, we're not married.
Speaker 2:We're not boyfriend and girlfriend. We've never, we've never met each other. We've never met each other in real life and, yeah, we're just really good together because we care about protecting our little flock of sheep from the wolves in sheep's clothing. That's, that's the connection, folks. That's the connection. Well, it's just happens, we're just, we're just motivated by the same stuff and we have complimentary accents, which then gives us worldwide appeal.
Speaker 1:It's what, that's really what brought us together. So we said and I just would have considered this had I been Australian or had you been American. It would have been a clear no. That was not a question, though. So you here here give the people what they want. I don't actually know that this is what they want. You are health conscious. You've been a personal trainer. You're pretty health conscious. You're on a very clean eating. Is that still going? Is your clean eating kick still going Same?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, same stuff. It's just decision fatigue. I don't want to have to think, I just want to know, you just open your little can of tuna. There's a little can of tuna. There's some other cool stuff that gets, gets kicked in throughout the day, but, like there's, there's these big slabs of smoked salmon which is just like boom, you just pick it up, throw it into the furnace, let it ride.
Speaker 1:Didn't you say this is not the question? Didn't you say you were like, you didn't like seafood. No, I like, I like.
Speaker 2:I like certain certain aspects of most animal groups Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. If it's, if it's got solid flesh, I'll eat, like I'll eat that as part of the you know ocean. And if it, yeah, if it's got like that real seafoody smell, I'm out.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. Well, where I was going with this is like what's, what's your gym routine? Do you have a? Do you do the same thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I've been, I've trained, I've trained consistently ish for since I was maybe 18 or 19. And it's always sort of just been the same thing, like I don't care. Now I don't really care now so much as I did around, you know, chasing the, chasing the weights, it's more around. I just want to be able to do stuff that that most people getting into my age now can't so like. Pull ups are a massive, massive staple in my exercise diet.
Speaker 1:Can you do the Oliver Queen pull ups? What did you call that crazy machine?
Speaker 2:Oh the salmon, the salmon ladder. So yeah, if anyone's just like yeah, if you want a bit of eye candy, just go just YouTube arrow salmon ladder and you'll see. You know.
Speaker 1:Did you know? I thought you were going to say if you want eye candy, I can do the salmon ladder. No, I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to. You're on me. I'll actually look like a salmon flapping around on them, on them like drowning, like out of the water suffocating to death. But no, I just think. I think there's some.
Speaker 2:There's some real benefits to there's some real benefits just going to the gym. For me it's like a, it's a cool place for me to do my thing and I just do my own thing. We were in there last night. I'm taking my, my buddy and I, andy, he's getting into the gym, so we're in there and there's people they're filming. There's people there like just looking at themselves in the mirror. It's like a fashion fest.
Speaker 2:And I just go in there to just do my own thing. Like I just like to make sure that I can do keep my pull up solid, greased, ready to rock. And then everything else is just sort of like moving, like being able to keep moving, cause I sit down a lot. I've realized like I sit down for work a lot and so sitting is the sitting's the new smoking man, cause it just locks everything up. And then you just putting your socks on in the morning it's like, oh my God, what's wrong with me? So you just got to loosen. You got to loosen that up. I'm like the tin man. You got to just like put some grease in there.
Speaker 1:It was like stretching cardio.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I mean no, yes.
Speaker 1:What does that mean? I can't, I can't.
Speaker 2:I can't take the athlete out of me, like as a. You know, when I was racing, when I was racing canoes like canoes around the world, like that was my sport I was paddling, paddling canoes like ultra distance around like Hawaii and then California and New Zealand and Tahiti and all this sort of stuff, and so I love that. I love the ultra distance stuff as an athlete. So there's always the draw card to like go and strap myself into a cardio machine and just suck my soul for hours on end.
Speaker 2:But like yeah, like a rowing machine or like a ski. A ski is a really cool piece of equipment. It's like a, it's like a Nordic ski, but just ultimate death. You can go from zero to lactic health very, very quickly and I like, like. I like that, like that's how I raced, I liked it, I like feeling at home there. But when you get older, you just want to, just, you just want to keep the engine running. You want to. It's like my car's going to have like 3,000, 100,000 miles on it by now, but it's still good. You know, my engine's just getting, my engine's just getting seasoned perfectly. It's like one of those cast iron skillets. You want to use it for a long time. It gets that beautiful. You know. Little patina on it, it's nice and nonstick. It's well seasoned. It's like me.
Speaker 1:You're well seasoned and then the food.
Speaker 2:the food stuff is just a way, it's a. It's one of the only routines that I have at the moment because, as as you know maybe the listeners don't know, but I bounce around like digital nomad style. I don't have really a fixed place of existence. So, in the absence of fixed geography, I have to have something from a routine perspective. So the food is just an example of a routine, and then same with exercise, Like if I have two things, two of those things going, then at least my whole world doesn't crumble around me. I've got some anchors to keep me. Keep me going, Cause I have learned recently that, you know, habit and routine is actually like super important for humans.
Speaker 1:You know what I would like to do. My ankle has to get sorted out first, but I would really like. I say this and then I'm like I don't know if I would really like to do this, and I liked, I liked the Indian theory. I don't know if I'd like it as well as in practice, but I would like to do a triathlon because I would not like. I wish I could be like a marathoner.
Speaker 2:That would be, that would be cool, but like I don't, like gravity and me and friends I don't like gravity doesn't respond well to me, which is why I chose all non low impact sports.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I also have a like my. I've no cartilage around my left kneecap from an old softball injury, so like running is not fun, but running is part of doing a triathlon, so you've got to work that through the swimming, fine bike, fine, Like I could, I could, I could get by. I have to work on it, but I think that'd be cool, Anyway. So you don't lift weights.
Speaker 2:I lift weights every now and again, but I'm not lifting weights to set records anymore. I'm not lifting weights to like, put on my Instagram and go look at me. Wait, wait. Fitness for life that's the plan.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fair. All right, let's get back to it.
Speaker 2:Dude. So we've got decisive Debbie yeah, We've got analytics. We've got synergistical Sally. We've got emotional, emotional Emily, Emotional Emily. What else we got?
Speaker 1:So synergistic Sydney is someone who buys your energy. So if you've ever heard like, like, oh, I just love your energy, I love to be in your energy, but they're not buying. That's a whole set. Yeah, I love your really into vibes, 100% Really. Their business might be running. If they're a business owner, they might be running their business on vibes.
Speaker 2:If they're hopes and dreams, maybe yeah.
Speaker 1:Hopes and dreams, oh that's. I heard this from one of my clients clients where she was like, before I started working with this person, I was running my business on vibes and it's one of my favorite things I've ever heard of my. I was like that is so many of the people that I work with that they're just running their business on vibes. I love that, but that's, that's the synergy buyer is like if they don't feel it with you, you have no chance. That's it, yeah, and that's. It's not something that you probably can manufacture, unless you're manipulating a situation. So that's, you know that's a really unique circumstance, but that's also going to be an aspirational type type buyer. Then there's collaborative Colleen.
Speaker 2:Collaborative Colleen yes.
Speaker 1:Am I the worst with all of these? She?
Speaker 2:wants community. Does she want, like you know, a little clilt little club, Like what's her deal?
Speaker 1:No, it's how she makes decisions. She wants to talk with people. So like this is, and here's where, if someone says I need to speak with my partner about this, I think it's incredibly disrespectful to be like no.
Speaker 2:Oh, cause that's what, that's what they do. Right, that's the, that's the skeletons. Oh, hey, would have. Hey, let's, you should paste this. Wouldn't you want? Wouldn't your partner want you to be successful? Wouldn't you want to like show her that you're the man and like you can make all the decisions, and like, yeah, you show her. Yeah, alex Hormozzi.
Speaker 1:It's one of the things I don't like about Alex Hormozzi when he talks about selling is when he would talk about when he would sell gym memberships. They would say I don't know, like it's a big investment, like I think I'm going to need to talk to my partner and he would say do you, is your partner going to say like he doesn't want you to be fat in six?
Speaker 2:months.
Speaker 1:Like what? And I was like that's, that's ick, that's one of that's, one of the ick. That's an ick thing to me, like I mean, hopefully your partner would not say that your partner would want you to be healthy and all that. So yeah, I take the point, but also like, if it's now I asked the question on my intake forms is are you the only decision maker?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good. That's a good way to check that yeah.
Speaker 1:You can, we can mitigate this in advance. But like we're not going to, if you don't know, if you don't think to ask the question and someone says, like I want to talk this over with my partner, you don't know the someone's financial situation, you don't know someone's general life situation, that trying to find a way to handle that objection, handle that objection, which is one of my least favorite things to talk about. Handling objections is real. But I think you can handle objections through your content and then making sure that you are truly giving someone everything, all the all the pieces of information that they need before you leave the call. One thing but we're not, we're not here to handle someone. This is not like a dog handler or something Like.
Speaker 1:So you don't know like your $5,000 program could be significant enough that it would be massively disrespectful for this person to spend that money without consulting their partner or that it's going to take.
Speaker 1:You just don't know someone's situation Now I will say it's. I think I would be interested to know your opinion on this that it would be to say like could we get? Could we get an call together? Or like is there something Like I help you communicate better because there's no one who's ever going to sell your program better than you. So if you do get the, I need to talk about this with my partner then I would rather be the person who communicates with your partner about what is involved, what they're going to get what that is so.
Speaker 2:I think that's a good. I think that's a good. That's a good, that's a good point. I think I would ask, I would ask the question like you know what? What is it about what we've spoken about today that you need to, you need to chat with your partner about? So I just try and isolate what it is. Chances are it's going to be I've got to spend some, like I want to spend money, but I've got to like it's a, it's a team here, like it's like my business partner. So I would isolate that and make sure that that's the thing. And then it'd be like yeah, look, well, if you want, we could, we could jump on a call together or at least and I think this is the different this is where you can get respect.
Speaker 2:Wrong is that being respectful doesn't mean that you have to abandon process and just be nice, being nice and being respectful to very different things. So you would still, even if you get that partner objection. Hey, okay, I completely understand that. You know it's a big decision and you probably need some more information. What is it exactly that you need to talk to them about that that I haven't made clear today? This, okay, cool.
Speaker 2:When would be a good time for us to reconnect. I'd like to like obviously, you know, I'd like to just check in with you. So you make you've got to make the commitment for the next chat, because if you don't and just like, hey, cool, I will talk later. Bye, if you're being respectful, no, no, no, that's you being loose and the likelihood of them then disappearing into the ether. But if you then say, yeah, look, you know it'd be great When's a good time to have a chat, the next conversation, and try and get that booked in, Because if you can get that booked in, then obviously you're showing that, hey, like, we're keeping the doors open for this thing till Friday and so hold them to account. If I don't hear from you from Friday, then you know, cool, we're, we're out, like, we're going to close the doors and we're going to, we're going to, we're going to start the program. So I think that's important.
Speaker 1:Was that concept of consent again right? Like, yeah, ask permission. Would it be okay for us to schedule that call right now to schedule and that's that's. That's outside of the partner objection. That's I need time to think about this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course no problem.
Speaker 1:Would it be okay if we schedule that follow up call now and you know? Or would it be okay, Like, if I don't hear from you by X date, if I send you an email? I don't think I have ever asked that question and been told no.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Is it okay if I just make it Because I don't know. I feel like your process would be similar, like if you've established a decent report where you're not being slimy with the person, it's, they either know like I genuinely want to think about this, or like they're gonna be ready to go. So if you say like, can I follow up with you, they're gonna be more or less on board. Cool, follow up with me, cause I genuinely want to think about this.
Speaker 2:Totally totally.
Speaker 1:So that's a collaborative person. So it could be a partner, like I just I'm. If you know that you make decisions better just talking through them with someone that you trust, please go do that. Yeah, it should not be with me. I'm biased, of course. I think my program is the greatest thing in the world, especially if I believe that it can help you. Of course I'm gonna recommend. I would rather you join this thing, because if I feel like I can help you, please like come on, come on down, like let's do this. But if you need to speak with someone else, okay, and I'm gonna trust that, if it's meant to be, then it's gonna be. So that's a collaborative buyer type. Then are you ready for the next Factual Fallon?
Speaker 2:When they like the facts, they like stats, they're like they're super analytical right.
Speaker 1:Factual Fallon is someone who is naturally skeptical and just needs to invest. Like just needs time to sort through the facts in their head is really what it comes down to. And we talked about oh God, all of our chats just rolled together where you had you said you had a client who there was someone who called him up and said, like I'm ready to do this and I love that thing that you posted six months ago and I'm ready to go and I'm ready to buy that's Factual Fallon. That's Factual Fallon, yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're frustration inducing sometimes, and I think that's another really good call out to make here is that if you're getting frustrated because people aren't buying or aren't doing stuff, or your sales are slowing down and you're just facing into, oh hey, like I'm a bit skeptical, they might come in and paint the plate like that. I'm really skeptical of you, bro. Like, convince me, you can't get frustrated by that. And hopefully what you're seeing now is, if you have someone that starts dropping some of these sentences and some of these lines and some of these words, you can just go straight away. That's a Factual Fallon. Oh shit, I've got to convince them Like it's not, it's nothing to do with me, it's all to do with how they see the world. And so now it's like we just go back to default.
Speaker 2:What's the golden rule? Treat others how you would like to be treated, sell to people how you would like to be sold asterisks as long as you then overlay their buying personal or buying style. So then, oh shit, hey, adrian, I got a Factual Fallon on the line here. Bro, what should I do? Like, help them see the benefit and help them understand that it's safe and you are someone who can deliver on what you do. So you might be using things like hey, here's an example of a client that we just finished up with. This is what they got. Here's guess what shock horror. Here's their actual website that you can go and look at the work that we've done, not just a screenshot of me mocking it up in Canva pretending that I'm better than I actually am. Right, like there it is. Do you want to talk to them? Like, here's a reference from them. Here's an endorsement 100%.
Speaker 1:that goes a long way. I think that also goes a long way with the analytical anotype. And also let these people ask every last detailed question. That's like might suck your soul to sit there and just let them ask question after question after question. And then if you really want to be respectful and they say, okay, I'm going to think about it, and you say, cool, can we follow up, say I do that follow up conversation or whatever that looks like, but to also check in with them and be like I just wanted to let you know like I've thought more about some of the questions you were asking me and here's some further thoughts.
Speaker 1:if you're all right with that, I'm just wondering if you had any other thoughts that have you know if you had any other questions where you're, because probably this is a type of person that may or may not have been made to feel wrong for having that personality trait, where they just have so many things that they were a little investigator So- 100% and they love it Like they froth over it.
Speaker 2:It would give them self actualization to be given more stuff to research.
Speaker 1:Yes, it helps them, but you're giving it to them.
Speaker 2:You're not letting them cook it up in their mind. You're going hey, yeah, we'll catch up in a couple of days, book it in and then that night shoot them a loom or like send them a voice memo or shoot them an email. Hey, jimmy, super stoked to have chatted today. I just I've been thinking about some of those questions and, by the way, thank you so much for you know, challenging my process. It's really made me think so, thank you. Here are some extra things that I just figured you might want to be aware of, and if you've got anything else, mate hit me up.
Speaker 1:I'm here for you, right, right, right. Yeah, it's really helpful and it's. I think these are the types of people that get people write them off. They've just got all the question after question after question. They didn't buy. They asked questions last time. They didn't buy, but like they're not going to buy until they're ready, and oftentimes they're going to do their investigations on their own and you're not even gonna they're not even gonna get a chance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So that's that, and then there's one last one that we can move on.
Speaker 2:Who is it? Who is?
Speaker 1:it. It's innovative INES, so it's primarily an authority buyer is the big.
Speaker 1:Thing here because your authority is going to demonstrate that you have something unique Like. This is the thought leadership. This is the when you really have something to say, when you stand for something, when you can sit like kind of like what we're doing is where we say, like we want to teach you to make more sales, but we're going to do it through, like we're going to help you with your curriculum, we're going to make sure that you have really phenomenal retention and that you're actually delivering on. Probably most people aren't talking about that. That would attract an innovative INES.
Speaker 2:This is amazing, seriously like this is game changing in just the what to look for. So now, with all of our personas and maybe what we need to do, I think we need to make a little lead magnet slash little cheat sheet that puts these into a page or two, that just few little facts about each one to help people have like their little survival guide up on their wall when they're talking to people. Who have I got? Who have I got? Oh, I've got a Colleen, I've got a Jimmy.
Speaker 1:That's a good idea of suggestions for this. That's a very good idea, just to help.
Speaker 2:I think, just to help, because, I mean, I think the thing about us is that our content, like the content that we provide to our community, is going to be rocking right, so we're going to make sure it's not only just informative, but then there's some action steps that you can take and some checklists or some cheat sheets or reference material that can really help you straight away if you apply it. So, yeah, table that for the next meeting of the meeting of the universe. What else have we got? Because I'm looking at, like I'm looking at the time and we have just nerded out for a super long time, really long time, I know, for a really long time.
Speaker 1:I was not intending to speak on any of that stuff.
Speaker 2:I know Amazing.
Speaker 1:So there's that I don't like you know, addressing. I think addressing the fact that it's if you are experiencing some of the things that we have been talking about. Oh, there was also something where I was like I want to come back to this. I don't remember what that was, though if you do, but addressing, you know if you are having, if your sales are slowing down, if you've plateaued, it's the way that you're selling doesn't feel good, if you're not having very many people renew. That's the basis of what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:It is there might be some things going on in your business beyond, like you're just not speaking to buyers, probably like that's just really skimming the surface. That it's probably not helpful if what you're going out there and doing is like trying to is you're getting shiny object syndrome around. All the different, all the different, all the different things around, trying to launch new things and attract new people because they want to like oh, here's the thing that I've been hearing all over the place and I think there is some truth to it, but I don't think it's helpful for people to just apply just like, just take carte blanche and just go with it Is that there are people who are buying low ticket right now and that's doing well. There are people who are buying really high ticket and then the mid-ticket buyers are like people are not going for that right now, but that's not a hard and fast rule, and so to try to go well, how can I create that lower ticket offer or go into a higher ticket? Like that's.
Speaker 1:It's not helpful to create all those different offers or to go into trying a bunch of different launch strategies Like there is a, there's a, what is your tried and true strategy? And like how can we start to tweak variables rather than tweak the whole thing to be able to get this to work at scale and then trying different lead generation strategies organically through ads? Like there's a lot of like I'm going to try and fix this problem by going into another coaching program or doing this or doing that, and it's essentially all coming back to like let's try these new things and it's too much, too soon.
Speaker 2:Love and actually helping. Love, love, love. I think the way that you sell is like that's a variable right Depending on your program, depending on your curriculum, depending on your offer. Right Like, are you like the actual foundation of when you get the opportunity to do it? It depends on, probably, our next episode, which is your launch vehicle or your vehicle you're going to be taking right.
Speaker 2:So, there might be a time where you're using your landing page to do the selling for you. You might be physically speaking with someone on a sales call, you might be doing it in a group format, so either way it's, the fundamentals of that are the same. You need to make sure that people are heard, they feel understood, they feel the trust and they feel respected. But the only, the only variance that's going to exist there is, I guess, the way that you're going to package that, based on the vehicle that you choose to, you know, be the gatekeeper into your curriculum, so to speak.
Speaker 1:You're speaking a lot to process like what your sales process, which is great, because this is the thing that I wanted to come back to and I couldn't remember what it was.
Speaker 2:There you go. See, I told you, I hope you out. I hope you out every time.
Speaker 1:You, you team me right up. So the the process is not this is what I said earlier is that the, the process that you've been using might not be able to work for you at scale, and that is what's key is what? How can we identify each piece of that sales process and figure out, like, how can we start to make small adjustments so that it's going to work I don't want to say the word at scale again, because not everything is about scale, but being able to tweak separate variables that it's going to work better for your energy, for the way that people are buying, for all the way around. So what we what, what we have will give a little sneak peek into one of the pieces of our own curriculum here is there's a little, there's a little access. So in the last episode we talked about the money market, which is built on a X and Y access and there's little quadrants. There's another one for selling. So if you think about what the X axis is, if you, if you look at, like, how well is this working? And you can do this, not, you can do this for the sales process as a whole, you can do this for the sales mechanism as a whole. You can do this for each piece of the selling, selling process and the selling mechanism. So the launch event of however you're doing, the sales call, whatever that looks like. So you can do it for each piece. You can do macro or micro, so, and you look at how well is this working? Like where is that at?
Speaker 1:On the on a sliding scale of not working would be like way at the end of the quadrant, like one out of 10 and out of 10. It's working very well, goes all the way there. And on the other axis would be how good does this feel to you? Is it aligned? Does this feel congruent with your values? Does this feel congruent to the way that your audience responds to things, etc. Etc. Etc.
Speaker 1:And if you can look at that, if it feels really good and it's working really well, that part of your process is something that, like, we can have a conversation about, is my take on that is it's time to systemize that part of your process. If it's not, that's what's going to help you amplify it. If it's in any other quadrant, then that's where we can say what's the variable attached to it and how can we start to tweak it. So, if it's not working well but it feels good. How can we make it work better? If it doesn't feel good but it's working well, how can we make it feel but you know what I mean Beautiful. So that's the sales process. And when you can tweak those things and system, when it hits that, when it hits the quadrant we want it to be in, this works really well and it feels really good. You can take those things and put a system behind it and that's where you can put scale behind things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool, there's so much more to it than that. That's like. That's the, not even the Cliffs Notes. That's the trailer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I think something practical. I think something practical from that which just echoes into everything that we're doing, is that if you've got your process as it is now and then you completely like throw it out and find a shiny object and stick that back in, you're not going to, you're like you're not going to get the data and the insight to benefit from it. Right, so if, if, if, today you've listened and you're like, holy shit, these buyer personas really, really cool. I'm going to what I'm going to do. I'm going to do one thing change. I'm going to here's my sales process. All I'm going to do now is that I'm going to put a handy dandy notebook, just like on Blues Clues, handy dandy notebook, next to my, next to my computer.
Speaker 2:I'm taking face to face, like live zoom, sales calls and what I'm going to do is I'm just going to make a note as to what I think each sales calls person that I'm speaking with, what their buyer persona is, and then, based on that, I'm going to make sure that I really tick off their specific buyer persona needs and that's all you might do. And then I would come back after a period of time, and so, whatever that period of time is and just have a look at the results, and you might be, you might be shocked to find that you're actually converting more, because all you've done is all you've done is you've kept the process the same. You've just now decided I'm going to intentionally connect with the way that my buyers or my participants on the call want to be connected with, or how they want to be connected to.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's a really great takeaway, or a really great easy win for people to apply into their world straight away, with very little resistance. So it's the onus is on us to then put together that little cheat sheet, which we shall do. So hit us up, hit us up for it.
Speaker 1:We can do that. We can do that and I would also restate that that is, that's advanced. If you are figuring out how to sell your thing, we don't need to be worrying about that yet. That's if you are in the early stage and you're doing sales calls and you're having conversations, it's OK to like have a script or a template that you're going by. Definitely it's we talked about this a long time ago around.
Speaker 1:You know when is it time to start to systemize things? When is it time to maybe start to simplify the process? It's like when you've achieved excellence around something. So, to a certain degree, templates, scripts, use them, like figure out how to get good at something through something that's going to help you feel safer yourself. And if a script helps you feel safer, having a sales conversation like let's do that. But if you are past that point, like this is a key to being able to do this better and wider. That, I would say. The only trick here. Oh, I like this because I haven't thought about how to do this, how you would replicate that, to teach your team, once you figure out, how to do it well and how to, how you make it work for your specific product, how you could teach closers in your business. Yeah, so what?
Speaker 2:you're talking about. So I wanted to, I wanted to remember this word. There's a Japanese, there's a Japanese phrase called Shuhari, shuhari three parts, and it basically talks it. It talks about shi S, h, h, h, a, r, I, and basically what it talks about is it talks about this, this transition from imitating your master so templates, scripts and, you know, following the bouncing ball of people who have tread your path well before, successfully, right? So imitation is actually the first stage to mastery, right? So then that's the, that's the, that's the shoe part of the part, of the word, part one.
Speaker 2:And then the ha is basically loosely translated to like digressing or breaking with the tradition, or detaching yourself away from the script. So now you're getting to a place where you're able to stand on your own two feet, but you still haven't mastered it yet. But you don't need to copy or imitate your masters or your, the experts that you follow that are that are giving you the, the way. And so that's the second part Ha, you're digressing away. And then the final part is read, which is complete separation and transcendence. You then actually now have your own way and your own methodology to be able to create that, and the quick, the easiest way to look at that word expressed in a movie is the karate kid. Karate kid three. Where, where Daniel is told by Miyagi hey, I've given you Miyagi karate, but now is the time for you to create your own. So you've learned wax on, wax off. You've learned that the karate is for defense only. Now it's time for you to create the Daniel LaRusso version or branch of Miyagi do karate, and I think that's the. That's the commercial movie manifestation of that concept. But that's it Right.
Speaker 2:So people who say scripts are bad Wrong. They're great at the start. Yeah, at the start. They're fantastic because they've worked for someone else. Why wouldn't they work for you? You don't need to reinvent the wheel. But then, in your quest for mastering your methodology sort of all the experts out there, where did you learn the stuff from? You went and did your coaching certification. You learn how to coach from someone else. Now, fast forward, however many years. You've now got your own way. That's cool. I just think that's really nice, you know.
Speaker 1:I like that.