The Gates Of Cimino

Ep. 50 The Deer Hunter

• Hosted by Vito Trabucco • Episode 50

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Join actor/writer Vince Cusimano and me as we discuss one of our favorite films ever. Warning: a few bleeps in this one!

Remember how you felt about the pool-shooting scene that the Frankie Valli song played in 'The Deer Hunter'? That nostalgic wave washing over as it perfectly captured the essence of Western PA culture and its people - a piece of cinema that touched us deeply and remains etched in our hearts. Come with us as we journey through memory lane, reminiscing about Christopher Walken's brilliant performance and the iconic Vietnam sequences. We also dust off some behind-the-scenes trivia, such as the unusual filming location - the River Kwai. An episode that promises to stir up emotions, recalling the good old days while keeping you intrigued with lesser-known facts.

In the second half, we dissect the movie plot - a gripping narrative that oscillates between the harsh reality of war and its aftermath. We delve into the soul-stirring Russian roulette scene that has kept us on the edge of our seats, serving as a pivotal point in the narrative. We explore how 'The Deer Hunter' deeply resonates with us through its relatable characters, reflecting a shared sense of camaraderie. As we close the curtains, we discuss the emotional journey of the characters post-war, the ones who returned home, and the one who stayed behind - a testament to the movie's powerful depiction of human resilience. Brace yourself for an exciting roller coaster ride down cinema lane, as we appreciate and celebrate this timeless Michael Cimino classic.

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Vito:

Three. I'm not gonna handle that.

Vito:

How we gotta show the game?

Vito:

Look at a lot.

Vince:

That's wild.

Vito:

No more. No more.

Vito:

No more.

Vito:

No more. How? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello. Hello. Hello. An empty chamber knife gun. Hello? Hello? Hello? God. Sorry. It was gonna be alright, Nikki. Go ahead. Shoot. I'll show, Nikki. Alright. I'll show you. Go away. No. No. No. No. You cut. Oh. You're gonna die. You're gonna die. You're gonna die. Oh, man. Go ahead, Nikki. Go ahead. Forth. Go ahead. That's a loud heart.

Vince:

Ever a time to do this episode. It's when it's hot as fuck as it is right now. What is it? Just I mean, it's like we're in Vietnam. It's like we are in v on the right on the on the Ho Chi Minh.

Vito:

This is the

Vince:

man. This is this this dumb melts. This is this. I don't know. What the fuck are you talking about? I don't even heard fuck you talking about.

Vito:

You see this, Stan? This is this. You know, it's funny talking about Vietnam in the Vietnam sequences throughout Deer Hunter. They were really on the river kwai, the park Or

Vince:

they

Vito:

yeah. To the scene with the Russian roulette and everything they escape, when they're in the in the water, that's the actual river kwai.

Vince:

Damn. I had I I I knew that they were somewhere, like, they weren't in America. Yeah. But I had no idea that that was that they had, like, legit going back there. You know, I don't even know where I I can tell you this. A lot

Vito:

of movies all over the place. They're entitled in a lot of times. Even they're at Pittsburgh scenes. Are Cleveland, Washington State. They're all over the place.

Vince:

I mean, they had money and they spent that money well. They spent that a a chimino, chimney, spent that money. Well, you know what I mean? You now. Let me Yeah. Go ahead. Let's do let's do it.

Vito:

We'll we'll slow here for everybody. So we did Deer Hunter and most people would be spoiled fucking everything anyway, but most people know it and seen it. So where is this with you? Like, we decided we were gonna watch it. Like, obviously, you know, I'm a Jimino guy, so I I was ready to go. Like, have you seen it a bunch of times? Or Oh, yeah. Oh,

Vince:

yeah. This is a this is an all time. This is You know what? It sounds crazy for to say this, but to me, this is like back to the future or greatest of the lost arc or the fog, this is like anytime it's on, I'm just gonna watch it. That it should and believe me, I get it. That's a hard one to say because I I constantly watch it. I I couldn't say that with apocalypse now. Right? I couldn't that's not real. I can't do that at any point. Maybe scenes. Oh. But I couldn't I couldn't sit at any point watch apocalypse just because

Vito:

I probably like apocalypse better.

Vito:

I

Vince:

Well, it's

Vito:

tough to say. I definitely know because I hate it.

Vince:

I like

Vito:

The Pittsburgh thing probably puts Deer Hunter above it. But I I do love apocalypse. I've seen it. Yeah. That's another one.

Vince:

There there's something about Deer Hunter that I I don't know I mean, look, it it all go I'm sure it all goes back to my youth, like my dad -- Yeah. Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vince:

this fucking movie. Any Me too. And and I remember how he would dis he would he would he was kinda funny about it because he would always like, my dad was where he looked at movies like this. They're like comedies to him. Like, he he just thought it was funny as he thought Christopher Walker was so fucking funny in this movie, like, just because he loved it.

Vito:

To

Vince:

Because he loved it because he's so and he would always say, oh, he's crazy. Hey. Well, he's nuts. Hey. You know, he just loved how crazy. Christopher Walker was in this movie,

Vito:

and I'll tell you they fucking nail Western PA type of people. Like like, walking the DeNiro just for remind me of my dad and uncle so much. And this then the scene when they're in the bar shooting pool at Frankie Valley.

Vince:

Oh, I love that.

Vito:

Is, like, so like, I've ever been little kids in my brother.

Vito:

I love

Vince:

you. Hey. That's like

Vito:

a single long theme ever.

Vince:

That is a dude scene. That is a amazing scene. Like, women have, you know, they have bridesmaids where they're all shitting in the bathroom or in the sink or, you know, like, whatever women have their I mean, maybe that's not every woman's, but most, you know, women have their, you know, their their special like, what was the the sisterhood of traveling candies or whatever the fuck that is. Like, women have their own movies. We get it that make them feel womanly and to get

Vito:

it done. I I get it. Yeah.

Vince:

And have their men pro movies. This movie is one of those man movies. And that scene is one of the great man you know, bonding mode via scenes, you know, where it's just like, yeah, this is what dudes do. They just fucking play pool, drink beer, and sing, Frankie Valley.

Vito:

Yeah. It's like, so a quick plot for everyone if you haven't seen it. It's Western PA Steelworkers on like, the last day of work, there's like a group of, like, six friends or so, three of them. One's getting married that night. And the other two and all three of them in a few more days are gonna be going off to Vietnam. Yeah. It's just like this. It's just so much happening in their lives all at once, and they don't even blink, you know. It's like nothing to them. They're just going off. But because they don't know what's coming. And they go deer hunting. There's two hunting sequences that start at the beginning and not the beginning, but, like, toward, like, in the plot point of the beginning and at the end, you know, before Vietnam and when they come back from Vietnam, really the Nearos psyche how it changes, you know. But there is this Russian rule when they're in Vietnam, there's a Russian rulelet moment that is definitely, to me, the whole movie, I guess, what it's really known for.

Vince:

Oh, yeah.

Vito:

It's absolutely so intense and it's just insane. So then you go through that. They end up seeing that there's this kind of like a Russian roulette group going on in Vietnam that that's that's there. And all these guys are getting higher in heroin and doing hey.

Vince:

Yeah. Getting paid to fucking Well, you guys grandma.

Vito:

So at the the war ends, they go back home, but walk in stays behind. And and they don't know what happened. The Christopher Watkins character and whose whose name is Nick, and so and then John Savage in Rock and Teeny, or the other two. And so the rest of the movie is about those two and what they deal with when they come home from Vietnam, and, like, the aftermath of of all of that. And then, also, Christopher Walker, who stays behind, which leads up to one of the cool you know, crazy ascending's ever.

Vince:

Crazy ascending's ever. You know? One shot. One shot. Yeah. Right.

Vito:

Yeah. And that's that's a simple story, though, but that's what

Vince:

It is. I mean and here's the thing. It's like, it's I mean, you know, we weren't alive during the Vietnam war. So, you know, our I mean, I you know, not even and believe me, we are not political dudes on this show. This is not a political show for all you listeners out there. So we're not gonna get into the politics. But, yes, we know there was an Iraqi war And there's a lot of people that that would go around and be like, oh, that was our Vietnam. That was like, no motherfucker.

Vito:

Yeah. And I'm

Vince:

not even gonna be the

Vito:

guy's like item. Vietnam.

Vince:

Yeah. Vietnam was you got drafted. Okay? Yeah. Like, you didn't they you you didn't have a choice. You know, you had it.

Vito:

Did your dad go to Vietnam?

Vince:

No. He was he was already too old. He my my dad was Baidah was born in forty two. So he'll

Vito:

get the fuck. Okay.

Vince:

Yeah. So and he did get in the military. He got in the air force, but he got in the air force at eighteen. So that's nineteen sixty.

Vito:

Oh, shit.

Vince:

So so he was which which was pretty time out. Right? But he but he got injured And this is just to complete. This has nothing to do. Well, actually, I'll tell you what, this might have everything to do with the movie, but my dad got injured right out of boot camp. And and on a like him and his fellow, they were at, you know, what do you call it? Like, after, you know, you get stationed somewhere. So they were stationed in the south somewhere, and they went on R and R furlough whatever for the weekend to go, you know, get some pussy and they went to New Orleans. And on the way back, he was asleep in the back seat, and and two of the guys in the back seat with him were fucking around with, like, a revolver. And it went in. It went off. And he and he just he said he'd all he knew he saw a flash of light and he woke up three weeks later in the hospital. He couldn't move his arms and legs. They it had shot him through the chest. And it missed his spinal column by millimeters, but it bruised his spinal column. So he couldn't walk for six weeks. He couldn't he couldn't oh, no. No. I'm sorry. He couldn't move his arms for six weeks. He was parriplegic. I mean, completely just laying in bed not moving for six weeks. Like, you know, like -- Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vince:

Tom Tom Cruise and more you know, But then it was since it was a bruise, it healed. So then after six weeks, he could move his arms, and then after, like, three months or something, he could start moving his legs. He had to learn how to walk again and piss and right and all that stuff again. But but he was able to walk again and stuff like that. But point is, there's a part of that that I think always stuck with him while he dug these types of movies. You know? Because Yeah. See. See. Now he didn't go to war. So he was lucky because, like, to me I mean, I'd I'd ask you this question. If you got if you were given a choice, okay, you're either gonna go to Vietnam and have it, you know, you might get your fucking balls blown off or for, like, six weeks, you can't move and you get shot in the chest, but you'll get to walking it. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. I would choose that second choice every day, twice

Vito:

a day. Good timing on the year is too. And like -- Right.

Vito:

--

Vito:

not getting drafted. What about years? My dad was a marine And instead of going to Vietnam, he went he he went to the military prison, so he was in the brig.

Vince:

What did he do?

Vito:

You know, I don't remember the someone told me my mom, I think, told me that he's still like a typewriter. Don't know what the fuck.

Vince:

Oh my god. That's, like, the last detail shit.

Vito:

Yeah. No.

Vince:

That's, like, your dad was was Randy Quinn. He didn't do anything, and he gets fucking throw That's why

Vito:

I don't know if that's what it was. I was like, it's probably was something, like, you know, he

Vince:

I don't know. So crazy. Well, I mean, if it was something It's like

Vito:

He just knew my dad.

Vito:

So

Vince:

Yeah. So he probably, like, too.

Vito:

He was definitely a lot. I don't know why he would have installed typewriter. I'm like I know. But that was the years. But those Vietnam was that all of that age range, our fathers, and uncles and everyone that's the next generation before us. They fucking love the Deer Hunter.

Vince:

Oh, yeah.

Vito:

More than any other movie about Vietnam or almost a listening movie at all during the seventies, but that was the movie I all the time. And it symbolizes the seventies from, like, the cast from De Niro and Jean Azel, and John Savage, Chris White and Marilyn Stone.

Vince:

Was it Sun Zonza? Oh, yeah. George Zoonza

Vito:

from basic instinct? Yeah. The

Vince:

the show yeah. Yeah. Yeah. George Zoonza.

Vito:

Yeah. So there was definitely, like, a great cast and, you know, Retania Alda. But but yeah, no, it's it's one of those great movies. And when it came out, you know, you had such a political climate in Hollywood of time. And obviously, I'm a like a channel guy, so I've read like the biographies and everything I could about it. When it comes to this movie, have you ever seen the z channel document, or we talk about the z channel doc. They talk about this movie in detail. They talk about in Tsiminas biography. But they were so instrumental with this movie getting the b what it was because nobody was really picking up on it. The reviews were fifty fifty at first. It was still doing the theater run, this is before the Oscars. And z channel, which is like a pre cable station that was in LA only, and which is, like, the beginning of before, like, HBO and everything that

Vito:

that

Vito:

came after it was, like, playing movies and they put it out uncut on c channel and let it play in Los Angeles on TV for people to see And that's what guided didn't like. All these, like, guided talked about for the Oscars and really put it where it was. And because it wins the Oscars, he stayed in next to like the like the anti war film, you know, coming home.

Vince:

Well, yeah. Well and I always love this part about So at the so what year what we're talking, like, seventy seven, seventy eight, something like that. Yes. Seventy eight. So when I remember I got one year that for Christmas, I got from my mom, I got this Academy Awards, the Academy Awards handbook, which basically was just, like, it's just the winners of every year, but it was I mean, or it was the it was basically a break each year had its own breakdown. Right? So it was like you get all your nominees nominees, everything. But then there's little blurbs about interesting things that that have that transpired either leading up to the awards or during the awards or right after, you know, just kind of like tidbits. And -- Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vince:

for this one, I this always stuck in my mind. Is that so this year, seventy eight, the presenter was John Wayne of Best Picture, presenter of Best Picture. And he had to go out and present this movie. And and we're talking John we're talking the Duke Man Like, he was all American. And this is an anti I mean, you know, I don't wanna say it's anti American, but it's anti war, and this is not the kind of shit that John Wayne likes. So apparently, the whole night backstage, he was pissed, like,

Vito:

over the deer hunter.

Vince:

Oh, yeah. He was not a fan of anti war. He was not a fan of anti war. He just was not he I mean, you know, he's

Vito:

the dude. Look at it as as that much of an anti war film, actually. That's an ending scene which we'll talk about later. Oh, that's why I don't think it's anti war at all.

Vince:

But he had to present in his best picture, but but apparently and this is just out of the, you know, from what I read. So who knows what's Hollywood lore and myth and what's real? But apparently, he got so enraged after having to present it because he didn't know it was gonna win, but he kinda knew He always kinda know what's gonna win, you know, because it wins all the other precursors. And he was so enraged like, it was just building, and he presented it. And then afterwards, apparently, like, at one of the parties, he was just completely smashed and ranting and I mean, like, violent. Like, he was wanting to be he I think I wanna say that he either saw camino or he saw one of the producers of the movie at one of these parties and tried to pick a fight with them. Wow. And I love that. I love it. I love that

Vito:

--

Vince:

Like -- gone way.

Vito:

It's funny because when I was reading camino's biography, they were talking about that moment when they won the Oscars. And they were saying, which is funny about John Wayne because it's like, they were talking about this movie was so in the middle, and it really was getting flocked from both sides, whether it's pro war, anti war, So both sides, there were groups that liked it and hated it. And camino himself was kind of a, I guess, macho man a little bit, you know. Alpha. So they definitely I I thought always leaned towards more of the of the of a pro war side or pro war side. And then they all had a had, I guess, conversations that Jane Fonda was pissed, that she had to be back there with them. They had to do pictures and all smile to get

Vince:

Was Chimino was Chimino was he an immigrant or was he an immigrant?

Vito:

No. No.

Vito:

He's just he's just straight up. He's just straight up. Have been. His parents His

Vince:

parents haven't. I get the feeling that maybe his parents were something because most of those immigrant kids, like, they love America. You know what I mean? Like, they

Vito:

So so let me ask you a question too because Tumi knows Italian and you think Western PA is, like, predominantly Polish in Italian. And especially if you go to, like, heritage or whatever.

Vince:

Oh, lots and lots.

Vito:

Yeah. Really, that's what it is. And that he always go and they're all Russians and stuff. But the fact that every he has this thing because he does it in in in heaven's gate, but he has it I don't know why he picked Russians. Why an Italian guy picked Russians that that was, like, the ethnic group. That he was gonna pick. I never knew why. Did you ever you didn't do anything about that?

Vince:

You know, I it's to me, I guess I just always I mean, I don't know pits you know, I don't know that area. I just always assumed that, like, he was just because he is so detail oriented. I mean, he's, like, Cubic in a lot of ways. He's -- Oh, god.

Vito:

--

Vince:

into and I just always assumed it was because that was the the the predominant because remember that movie all the all the right moves with Tom Cruise.

Vito:

Yes. Yeah?

Vince:

They're all they're the same basic area, and they're all they're all they're all sort of like Polo. And and Yeah. I mean,

Vito:

they Right.

Vince:

I think his last name

Vito:

Georgevich. Right?

Vince:

Yeah. Georgevich. Yeah. So they're all sort of like Russian and Polok kind of

Vito:

Yeah. We're watching Russians over yeah. That's around the same. So I can see them picking the Russians. That that that makes a lot of sense. But it's just it's it's weird that an Italian didn't go with an Italian because he had De Niro. And, you know, I was like, goddamn. I was like, I wonder why he didn't do that. But, you know, hilarious. It's still

Vince:

Oh, well, it's I mean, it's in I mean, it is interesting because it does like, you know, there is certainly, like you know, it could also be the religion I mean, it could even be down to just the way that that fucking beginning. You know, like, if you haven't seen this, anybody out there just so you know, this movie is three part It's a three act play, basically.

Vito:

It really is.

Vince:

Your first act is a wedding. Okay? And they have wedding

Vito:

too, just a

Vince:

spring. It is.

Vito:

What? Yeah. Whole Act. Whole Act. You're right.

Vince:

And that and that wedding scene is so fucking it's beautiful, but it's so rich. I mean

Vito:

--

Vito:

Oh, yeah.

Vito:

--

Vito:

a moment when junkas Zelle punched

Vince:

his ass. When he just when he he's just drunk as shit and he just maxed it. He's like, I love it when it first.

Vito:

Who's the greatest ever?

Vince:

Who's the greatest ever? Still ain't watching the singer, you know, the crooner like all for the girl, and he's sitting by George Zoonsa. And George is is laughing at dad's office. Yeah. And he's and John's, like, you know, look at it.

Vito:

He's got it. Look at the hands. Does he

Vince:

have the little brains? He's like, so pissed. And then he gets up. But see, maybe that right there is kind of why he went Russian because Not that Italians don't beat their women, but because we do. We do. But it it it seems like in Russian in the culture, you know, especially like the the the old school Russian culture, it's more of an accepted thing, like, You know what? You you you Maybe follow me on that.

Vito:

Mad. Meryl Streep stared at drunk when he It

Vince:

just beat beat max the shit I've ever got.

Vito:

That was so hard to watch. Because she's trying to like, if you're from Wester PA, you almost know her. You know, you're like, oh, I know who she is. You know, I'm sure you do too, where you're from. And it's just like, oh, no. You know, you know that dad. You know that. It's just like

Vince:

Oh, yeah. Those are those are the good dads. Those are the ones that You wanna date their daughters? Because you know you can get away with anything. I was watching the I was listening

Vito:

to the audio commentary with one of I don't know. One of the DVDs blew I don't know. It's been out forever now. So somewhere along the line. So I was listening to the audio commentary with Vlomo Zigman and who shot the film and another guy who was interviewing him who just didn't really seem like he knew production that well. And that part happened when she gets smacked by her dad. And the guy was like, oh, I hope you didn't have to do that more than once. And then VELMUS was like, it's fake. It she didn't really get hit there. And he's like, I know, but it really looked real, and then nobody smacks her, like, a second time. And the guy who said it was like, no. That can't be it. To fill those you could tell us getting frustrated because there's a lot of hard things to watch in this movie. They're right. But it's like he's like, it's all fake though. Everybody's, you know, no one no one got hurt here. We're okay. It's just funny to hear it out. Hear it two different people talk about it. But the actors did their own stunts for the most part. And it's wild, you know, is in Vietnam. But, yeah, the the dad the the Meryl Streep stuff, it's it's crazy.

Vince:

So The that so well, you know

Vito:

But we're going all over the place. This is I

Vince:

know Phil. We are.

Vito:

We're we're That

Vince:

We're so yeah. There's Like, he's

Vito:

a candy store right now.

Vince:

I know. It so it's like so when he smacks her, for example, like, when he smacks Merrell, I mean, here here's the first thing re watching it again last night. And I haven't I mean, it hasn't been that long since I saw it, but I mean, it it is sitting through the the the whole way. I probably you know, it's probably been six months, maybe, you know, since I really sat down and watched it again. And and and here's the thing.

Vito:

I'm the same. I watch, like, once or twice a year.

Vince:

Yeah. It's it's it's just a, you know, it it literally is like it's it's like back to the future. It's like I kinda feel empty if I don't or Halloween. If I don't see it, it feels kinda like, well, haven't done myself.

Vito:

Yeah. It's like a godfather liked to me. It's like it's one rung under it, you know.

Vince:

It is. It's it's it's almost all it is is, like, it's just a little too too much of a downer. A little too much of

Vito:

an act. I'm not yet. So you're talking about it being three acts. And you it started with them at the wedding, and then it goes to Vietnam. And then the third part is, like, the aftermath slash looking for Christopher Wilkinson to go back to Vietnam a couple times. Except for going back to Vietnam, that whole part with the niro coming home and trying to get back. We're trying to hook up with, you know, Merrill Street, POS

Vince:

life. Ugh.

Vito:

You know? Or Those those parts were kinda That's

Vince:

a good that's a good right there. What you're Like, again, you know, we're we're kinda going all over, but -- Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vince:

yeah. So I always thought that I mean, the thing with DeNiro is he's not a at least for me, he's not I don't know what it is because he's so intense, he's so whatever it's it's always a little off putting when he's getting getting down with a lady. You know what I mean? But but what what you know, like Pacino, he just looks like he's gonna you know, he's looking to fuck everything.

Vito:

But Yeah. No. But the mirror is an odd odd guy. But, you know, like, the character he plays is an odd guy.

Vince:

He's got

Vito:

to double down on Yeah.

Vince:

It's a double down because he's so weird. And then, I mean, you know, it it's, like,

Vito:

sometimes he's funny. Sometimes he's, like, one of the boys, you know, and they're in the in the bar drinking. He's cool, but then he's weird. Obviously, Vietnam, he's weird. But, like, we're just about deer hunting. He's weird. You know? It's

Vince:

yeah. The the whole thing with with the bullet, like, this is this. This is this. That is it's like and and see, again, these are just this is what makes the movie movie. Brilliant is that of all those characters, they're so well put together because the only person that can talk to Michael to De Niro is Christopher Walker. He's the only one when John Kissell doesn't have his boots. And he's like, can I buy you a boot? Am, like, a bone. Scam. Yeah. And and and nobody's pointed to gutted everybody too. And he's pointing to gutted everybody. And and he's like, can't blame you and then and then, you know, you get George Sons. He's like, yeah, you take mine and and DeNeuro's mic mic is like, no. No. I said, no. It's like I met you

Vito:

with that.

Vince:

No stand. No no stand. You know? And everybody's trying to give him boots and finally, you have walk and who throws the boozie's stand. Here you go. You know, and he and then Christopher Walker looks at De Niro, and he's just like, what's bad with you? Right. And that's all he had to say. And he says it's so just It makes it's he's the character that makes sense. Like, to me, Christopher Walker is the heartbeat of that movie.

Vito:

I He's

Vince:

the guy you know, he's the for lack of a better term. He's

Vito:

the Oscar for too.

Vince:

But yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's the reasons because he's the one that you know, even though Mike keeps it together. Right? Mike is the is is the one that

Vito:

are Yes.

Vince:

He's the star. And everybody can count on him. All those guys can count on him to save them, to get him out. But if it wasn't like, you know, Nikki, Christopher Walkin, is the one is the one character in there. He he's the, you know, he's the pretty one. He's the one that can dance. He's the one that and he's nice and he's and he's very affable and he's and he's he and when he says the trees, you know, I like the trees. That's what I think. Yeah. That's what I like because I like going up there to see the trees. He's the you know, it it's without you don't even have to say it. It's just he's the the sweet one. You know, he's the one that that you wanna be friends with because he's gonna take you know, he's always gonna be there for he. He's always gonna be the fun one, never gonna get super you know, And and I I just love that about the movie because

Vito:

I yeah. I do too. I You

Vince:

know, because if you had the whole movie and you didn't have him and it was just really about DeNiro, it'd be like, well, he's not a bad guy, but manny's an asshole.

Vito:

Yeah. He's just a complex character,

Vince:

you

Vito:

know, and it feels like that that was the one camino based himself most off of.

Vince:

Oh, you know, that's a good point that's a good point. Yes. That's fine.

Vito:

And even though there was a lot of writers involved, Derek Washburn was the main writer. And if the thing I about Chimino, he's very petty with credit. So if you wrote for camino, you there was, like, a high percentage chance you were just gonna be, you know, just told to you know, actually, they Right. They've been told to fuck off later. Like, okay. You're done. You know, and that's it. And you're going to get credit and you get the fight for credit and everything. So there was a lot of crap involved with that one, but they all the writers had a fight to get their names on there.

Vince:

Did let let me ask you this. What what did you what do you think of Street? What do you think of Merrill Street? I mean, let me ask you it like this. Have you ever been Have you ever thought she was, like, smoking?

Vito:

I think no. But I think this is the prettiest. I I like her in this. I think she's pretty intense. I thought she was a pretty she was good looking and still of the night if you've ever seen that movie?

Vince:

No. I never saw

Vito:

it with Roy Schneider. I thought she but I think in this one and she was dating Jean Coutu at the time. And what was interesting was, you know, and watching the commentary, they got this all wrong. I'm listening to it, and I was freaking out. I was listening to this last, but at least from what I've always known was, you know, John Cozel was involved. Obviously, they had a hard time getting an insurance bond on him because -- Right. -- dying of lung cancer

Vince:

and they're

Vito:

dying six months after production. But he was with Bell Street and he was the one that got her cast in it.

Vince:

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I that's how that's what I always heard.

Vito:

Yeah. I know that I I was watching a commentary and they were like, oh, Meryl Streep is part of the click and then she got John involved and I was like, oh, okay. It's not

Vince:

Oh, my god. Who said that?

Vito:

I think he's a domicigo, but he's he's a VP, and he was like,

Vince:

I will whoop his ass. He's okay. I will whoop Bill Moss. Is he dead? He's dead, though. Oh, I would whoop his corpse, his parents, and he's dead. Yes. No. No. He's great. I love that. But I mean, like,

Vito:

But, yeah, first But, no. See, I I I really I love her in this movie. I think I know she's been I know she's Catherine hepburn of the art generation or whatever. But I think it might have been her first major role, but to me still to this day, it's her best film, best performance she's ever done.

Vince:

Listen. I I've I won't even try to disagree with that because

Vito:

it's just the character actor.

Vince:

I can't say that I've seen every my grandmother was a huge Merrill Street fan, but so she I'm sure she if she was still alive, she would be like, oh, did you see this? You see, you

Vito:

know -- Mhmm.

Vito:

--

Vince:

I have not seen a ton of Meryl Streep movies. I've seen this Obviously, I've seen Cramer versus Cramer. Yeah. I've seen -- Still good. Never saw that. You know, I saw you know what I saw? I saw Well and I saw adaptation, and I thought she was really really fun in that. Right.

Vito:

And so Yeah. No. I really like Meryl Streep a lot, though. A lot of her other movies besides besides this. But, yeah, I'm I I love this. I heard this.

Vince:

Well, and and and the thing is is, like, I haven't seen her in a time Like I said, you know, just a handful, but she to me is smoking in this. Like, she's this is the movie that I think she is like, man, I would. Absolutely. I mean, I can see

Vito:

I can see why they're fighting. Yeah.

Vince:

Yeah. And and the other thing is, like, it is crazy bringing up I mean, I'm glad that you did this because this is I totally wanted to get into this with John Kazzelle.

Vito:

Yeah. I wanna talk about him for a moment. We gotta give this guy his due. Every movie he's in, like, he were talking about with with the heartbeat being Christopher Watkins, Nick, and and Michael might be the lead. This is John Kissell's show, though. Every fucking movie he's in is his show. You know? And I'm like, he to me, he's still the scene stealer of the movie.

Vince:

Oh, yeah.

Vito:

When he's looking toinfluctuate that himself.

Vince:

Well, okay. So so I wanted I think we've talked about this. But if we have it on the air, maybe we've talked about it personally. Have you ever seen the Kyzyl documentary? Oh, yeah. I love that.

Vito:

I knew it was you. Yeah.

Vince:

I love that documentary. That was one of the best Like, I had I all I knew was that, like, oh, it's about this guy, John Kissell, and I've seen him in in all the you know, he didn't do a lot. And I saw it, and I was just floor with it. I wish it

Vito:

was longer. I remember it was not, like, forty five minutes.

Vince:

I know. It's it's kinda like the John's or the Joe Spinnel document. It's very

Vito:

short, you

Vito:

know. Stay short. Yeah.

Vince:

It's too short. It's like you really need to dive more into, like, you know, who he was. But I What a

Vito:

great actor. Correct? Create an actor. I think he brings that movie up a notch.

Vince:

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And there's the the scene in the documentary where they point out. It's like Sam Rockwell talking about. I just love he's like, I just love that moment where they're at the at the wedding and they're about to take the picture. And they're all lined up. And he's the one that looks down and, like, sees that he left his his zipper down and zips it up. Yeah. It's like that's a great that's a great that's his character. He is so into people talk about DeNiro being completely in his character at all times. Well, he got that from John Kazzol.

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

Because that's

Vito:

because that too, he said everything he learned from acting. He learned from John Kazzol. And I was like, that's fucking great.

Vince:

John Kissell was brought in because of De Niro. Because De Niro was his friend and knew And then

Vito:

Chimino knew

Vince:

Oh, and Chimino knew Corleo. They they all knew that, like, you know and they knew he was sick. And they knew that, like, this is probably his last good payday. And, you know, they're taking care of the friend, but they also know he's great.

Vito:

Yeah. I know he's the only store ever heard. About him like winning somebody over as Sydney Lou Matt talks about how he wasn't sure about him for Dog Day because he only knew him as Fredo. And Pacino is like, no. No. We gotta get joined to play the the park.

Vince:

I love that. Yeah. I didn't did

Vito:

you ever hear a story hollies? Like, he came in an audition and he was, like, within, like, five words. He was like, oh, he had to part. He was just fucking psychotic.

Vince:

Now that I knew. I thought that I didn't I didn't know. Well, in the documentary, what I knew is that when Pacino was talking about how they're they were filming Dog Day and there's the scene where the great scene where Kazal is like or or there him and Picchu were talking. He's not Where are we going? He's like, you know, blah blah blah and Bontenee. He's like

Vito:

Yo, me. Who's before you were to go and deal with

Vince:

Why nobody's at a country, you know? And and and you've got when they're due like, between takes, Kyzal is questioning, is asking questions of of Loumette, of Sydney, and and asking him like about the character. And he keeps saying why? And Sumay, a Sydney would be like, well, because of this. And they said, well, why? Well, because of this. And after, like, you know, twenty moments of that, twenty questions of why why why? Finally, Sydney Lemmet is, like, because I said so. Okay. And and John Casales says, oh, well, you should have told me that. And and it's like, I love it that it's it's like he was just toying with Sydney. Like, he was just, you know but, you know, I digress. That's fucking great, though. Al was fantastic. And he also said in that documentary, going back to Merrill, he said, you know, Picchino was saying that John told him one day he said, guess what? I just met the greatest actress in the world. And he's talking about Merrill, and they started dating. And John knew that. That tells you how good of an actor was because he knew what was good. And he knew she was great. And she had done nothing. Yeah. And so he yeah. Like, he brought her in he got you know, he knew she was the goods. And she she was.

Vito:

Those girls were perfect for that area because that was, like, it was funny. Watching as a little kid, like, my dad reminded me of those guys, but the women reminded me of my mom and all those women. And they really just nailed it, you know, just like that, you know, just afraid of of of life and and your surroundings and I don't know. And deer hunting is such a big thing there, which is such a great piece for the movie to to go off of, you know, how how they it could kill at the beginning, then Vietnam, and then he he couldn't kill me.

Vince:

He couldn't kill me.

Vito:

He couldn't back. Let's talk about him for a second in the early winter because that is the arc of the film. Right? You know, it's like, I don't know. Yes. We'll we'll we'll spoil it with the whole ending

Vince:

Oh, yeah.

Vito:

But he so he goes to Vietnam, and he was a little bit weird at the beginning. Remember, they're they see him in Vietnam and and John Savage and Christopher Walk and see him in Vietnam. They're like, Mikey. Mikey. And he kinda just walks past him and doesn't even say anything. Doesn't even He

Vince:

doesn't even it's yeah. He's, like, in a different that's that moment right there was always a weird moment for me because it's, like, he it's it's like he's so, you know, wrapped up in the he doesn't even recognize who they are. And then, you know,

Vito:

and then whenever Mike, he's in that is in that little John Savage is in locked away, like, you know, and and he didn't tued up on the rats and everything

Vito:

-- Yeah. --

Vito:

for the Russian left part. Remember, he was like, oh, he he's done. He's done he can't be saved. And Christopher Oh, yeah. Yeah. Talking about So it was, you know, a a a way he acted and, you know, them doing doing the the gun at at at Jean Cassel at the end. It at the academy when they go deer hunting, just these extremes, his care and I know what that's from, obviously, the effects of war and everything, but he was a complicated guy before they left. When he went streaking down down the road.

Vince:

Yeah. He he went and and, you know, I mean, John, because I'll always talk you to toying with him at the beginning, kinda push him saying, know, I

Vito:

I must have fixed them up a million times. I must have

Vince:

fixed them up a million times. You know why I don't think you'd do anything like it because you're a No. Like like they

Vito:

So ever did yours, just look at them earning. You know, it doesn't even affect him at all.

Vince:

Yeah. It doesn't even but there is that thing where he yeah. I mean, he loves It's complicated because he loves Meryl Streep. But so that keeps him from, like, really wanting to dive into, like, other women.

Vito:

Back in saving, trying to bring because that's still his best friend, so he keeps going back to Vietnam because Christopher Watkins still there. And he finds out that he's gate being shot up with heroin and doing the Russian roulette stuff. So now he's trying to find him, and he also finds out that he's sending money to John Savage's character, who's married to Retanya Alda Alda Alda. That's the wedding at the beginning, but those two are are broken up by this time. Yeah. Very Mike's net. Yeah.

Vince:

I mean, hold on, Mike. I'm sorry. But Steve.

Vito:

Steve? Steve. Yeah. I'm sorry, Steve. Yeah.

Vince:

Easy to overlook him in this, but you can't. Because he's the youth. If Christopher Walker is the heart, John Kissell is the, you know, sort of the spirit of the movie. Maybe maybe that's yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's the right terminology. But and if DeNiro is the lead, you know, he's the complications of all this. Well, the youth is absolutely John Savage. He's the guy.

Vito:

He's the

Vince:

youngest of one. He's the one that, like, you know, I mean, the what's your act

Vito:

what's the actress's name that plays his wife? Oh, Ritonia Alda.

Vince:

Ritonia? Yeah. Well, and you find out that, like, yeah, she's she's it's not his kid that she's pregnant with. You know what I mean? She she was sleeping around, and she got pregnant with somebody else. But he doesn't care. He just loves her. He's very idealistic. He's the idealist.

Vito:

So the, you know, you talk about being within that group. I'm sorry. What did you say? He yeah. He was Well,

Vince:

the used or the idealism,

Vito:

you know. He he needs all so in the dynamic of of war, you have brains, Braun, and then like the the weak one. Out of the three. That's kinda like their that becomes their dynamic once they get to Vietnam. I mean, Christopher Watkins is obviously the one who's trying to be smart, but it's Daneera who's fucking gonna be the one who gets him through it, shooting, you know, and everything. And and then you have the one who's dependent on them the whole time. And he's like, Mikey, Mike, you know, and had a weird thing. You know, you think the Narrow is just gonna leave him, but he goes and saves him, throws him on his shoulder, and fucking like, it's just insane. Like, how you you just can't figure out the Mike character, Robert DeNiro. I cannot figure them out. Like, he's, like, heroic. But, yeah, it's I'd love to, like, talk to him about that. You know, you wouldn't get anything from him, but I was

Vince:

Oh, no. No. He'd be, like,

Vito:

dude, what you should say?

Vito:

Yeah. He'd be, like, fuck yourself. But even in the book, it was very you know, the only thing the writer really knew was after Timino got their original script, he certainly macho ed it up for Robert DeNiro's character. Like, just little things in the dialogue. For example, remember when they're like, oh, you're still talking about one shot. The original script just says something like, you know, just commenting on one shot, but then when Chimino got it. Member, he's like, yeah. Two for Pussies. You know, that was just, like, just everything's like that with Chimeta. He's just gotta be a little, like, because

Vince:

And, you know, like, money look

Vito:

at it is an war. There's no way to me. It's funny because gunslinger.

Vince:

It's funny because last night watching, and that was the first time I ever noticed him saying, too short plazies. Because that scene is such a gentle scene in the trailers. Like, you know, these other guys I love them, but, you know, I can't talk to them. See, you you you the only one, Nikki. You know, And a member He

Vito:

just seeks out real fast whenever Merrill Street shows.

Vince:

Oh, yeah. Because he doesn't wanna It's that weird. He doesn't he loves her. Any but he also doesn't wanna get her away between her

Vito:

and Will not get away

Vince:

of yeah. But now I I before we go further because there's so much I do wanna go back. I I gotta go back Oh,

Vito:

we gotta go back every month.

Vince:

John savage again. I wanted to say that I mean, he you know, obviously, he's he's the one getting married. He's the one that's, like, got the the hope and the dream or, you know, And the scene with with the we've already discussed the scene with them at the bar is great, and they're all drunk, and they're all singing the in the Steelers. Watching the Steelers. And then it and when they go to war, he's the one that he can't quite keep the gun on his head. Like, he when he pulls the trigger, it's not it's he's so broken and so weak in a sense that his the the gun, he just he's dropping the gun as it fires, so it just skades his head.

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

And the only reason that he can't that he breaks his legs forever, that he's got, you know, no legs at the end is because he but because he's the one he he he's the one that dropped from the he can't

Vito:

hold on. Hard to walk. The chopper.

Vince:

You know, chopper. But yeah. Chopper.

Vito:

Real quick. That was one of those only moments of the movie where there were stuck being the stuck man. When they were hanging from

Vince:

the drop they're dropping from the yeah. Which is that has to be because that's But

Vito:

they're shot though, the shot of them looking down and it's them holding on. That's really them.

Vince:

Really them.

Vito:

It's a fucking tough movie, you know. That's a tough event.

Vince:

And and and I'll tell you this. I got a story. I know I've told this story four, but I'll just say it again because if there's never been a more appropriate time than right now, I'll make it as, like, super quick ten seconds. Tell it. Thirty seconds. What if So when I first moved out to LA fifteen years ago, I got a job hosting birthday parties up in Calabasas. And it was just, you know, parents to bring their kids and whoever the birthday girl or boy was, they would bring all their kid, all their friends, and we would shoot little music video parties on a blue screen sound stage. Small little place and whatever the hit song was, whatever song they wanted to do, they would lip sync and I would I would host and I was very cheesy and I was very like, oh, right. Now we got the you know, who's the next group coming up singing this great, Miley Cyrus, you know, party in the USA or whatever the song was. Well, one day, And and the parents would come too. Well, one day, whoever the the birthday girl or boy was, one of their friends brought or or was was chaperone there by John Savage. And I was, like, holy fuck. Okay. Now what was funny is I knew John Savage and I knew him obviously I knew him from Deer Hunter.

Vito:

Yeah. Yeah.

Vince:

I didn't really I knew him from Deer Hunter and El Salvador and Salvador.

Vito:

Salvador. And then do the right thing.

Vince:

And do the right thing. Yeah. Those are really the only ones, but but that's all you need. And and my bosses were like, when they knew it was him, they pulled me aside at one point and they were like, hey, that's Sean Savage. You know what he was in? Right? And I said, I might have said, Duhr, but they were like, the onion field. And I had never even heard of the onion field. So I had So I ended up, like, reading it and watching it and it was great in it. But anyway, at that party, you know, I do the whole thing. I'm like full of dinner. A ball of energy, get to, you know, ever all of the kids are having fun. At the end of the party, all the kids are leaving with their parents blah blah blah. And John Savage catches me as I'm walk as I'm running up the stairs to, like, you know, grab something. And he's like, hey, man, And I was like, oh, hey. And he was like, you know, I just wanna tell you, I respect what you do. You know? Or he he said it's something like that. You know, I I respect which he was like, you know, just being very cut. And I was like, brother, I respect what you do. You know, like, you know, however that was worded, but I knew. And I wish I could have talked to him because I would have been like, what in the fuck like, all I wanna know is all the v at all that v all that scene, that's what I wanna know is what the fuck happened? How intense was it? Holding on to the chopper, putting the gun so he had the screaming, the moaning, the crying, like, Like, that scene

Vito:

Brad's crawling on you.

Vince:

Brad's crawling on you just holding that scene to me. The Russian roulette Vietnam scene, I don't care what anyone says, politics wise, I know what the the meaning, the theme, thematically. I know what the scene scene is trying to say, blah, blah, blah, I don't give a fuck. Just the execution of that by -- Mhmm.

Vito:

--

Vince:

everybody involved. I mean, crew cast everything -- Right.

Vito:

--

Vince:

is And you said it earlier, this is the scene. This is one of the greatest scenes of all time. And so Yeah.

Vito:

It's just one of the most famous images too with Dinairo, with the gun to his head. Dinairo, with the girl

Vince:

with the gun to his head, with with the the, you know I mean, I you know, and that fucking you know, that that that fucking whoever they got, because I remember you know, I've read the stories about, you know, that the the actor that they got to be the main, you know Oh, the oh, the

Vito:

the the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Vince:

Yeah. Yeah. He that he was like, he really did not like Americans. Like, he was a legit racist dude. You know what I mean? And and and that was exactly what they wanted. And they Oh, yeah.

Vito:

He was he was a father.

Vince:

I have to I have to imagine all those hits when he's slapping them.

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

I'd say that ninety five percent of that shit was real.

Vito:

Probably so.

Vince:

I I And and when with De Niro just Who are you?

Vito:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You motherfucker. You motherfucker. I was like, god. Who we have?

Vito:

You fucking, like, in that group. No. I would feel safe. I'm like, the neighbors gonna get me the fuck out of here right now. You know, because he

Vince:

It makes you like, that scene, I don't care.

Vito:

I don't

Vince:

want to talk about this company. It makes you as an as an America. You know, it makes you want to, like, b De Niro. Like, not b De Niro, but b in his like, yeah. That's how I would be. Yes.

Vince:

So you

Vince:

touched me one time. Yeah. You love your muscle. You know, it's it's so and and and when they bust out, and Christopher Walker is, like, just smashing that dude's face at the end because everybody's dead and he just keeps

Vito:

Yeah. Get

Vince:

it out. Well, alright. So if we

Vito:

wanna jump around, we'll just keep jumping around because that's that's what we do. But I want to talk then and get this going with this ending. So if we're gonna be able by now, the other one knows is what we do. So The ending, DeNiro finally gets fines walking in Vietnam. Yeah. And they he doesn't recognize him because he's so fucking, you know, fucked up you know, have been shied up and sees his arm. There's tons of needle marks in his arm. What? The neuro's all fucked up. Like, Nicky, it's me. It's me. And then all of a sudden, he's, like, one shot. That's what Dick says, back to and the nigga Yeah. The nigga was, like, yeah. One shot. It almost, like, puts the gun to his head and blows his head off right and sees everyone in the near is crying. It's Then I remember I was the most devastating movie death as a kid. I'm pretty sure. I I just remember, like, my My dad always talking about it. The movie Christopher Walking dies at the end. Always freaking me out the whole Russian roulette stuff. But, Brinkley, come back to America. And the ending is one of these sort of those, I don't wanna say, ambiguous or whatever. You know, it's one of those endings where it's

Vince:

It is well, it's it's it's it's yeah.

Vito:

I don't wanna say that's what it

Vince:

is, but it's not as big as they're just what are they saying?

Vito:

Yeah. You don't know what they're saying. Right. Yeah. What happens is it's it's post funeral. They're all sitting in that bar at the end. They're all it's the first time that, you know, John Savage is in there or Tonya Aldag has life and years. It's like everyone's together. They're not happy, but everyone's really civil. And then out of nowhere, Meryl Streep, Boston to God bless America, and then a few women slater. They all join in. And they all sing it together. And as soon as they get done, Daenerys smiles and says, here's to Nick. They all say, here's to Nick, and that's how the movie ends. Yes. And it's a tough way to think, like, is, you know, is it one of those pro America? Like, no matter what we still love our country regardless of losing someone like this? Like, it's you can be looked at so many ways. But that's very

Vince:

It it can

Vito:

a lot of left wing.

Vince:

What do you say? What do you think?

Vito:

I think it's a I think it's a pro american I don't wanna say pro war because you had a couple, you know, left wing openly up left wing people in it. I mean, I don't wanna say it's like like John Wayne, right wing, but it's certainly macho and it glor it doesn't glorify war, but it certainly glorifies like manhood you know

Vince:

Well, it's it. Look. I mean, listen. That like we just said in that scene, I mean, any guy who I mean, I don't see any guy because there's a lot of pussies out there. But but most men, you know, with balls and a big old dick, when they see that fucking scene, Oh, like I said, they wanna be, you know, like, they they get pissed. Like, if you hit me, like, they if you keep hitting me like that, that's what's gonna happen because -- Right. Driven to a place where you're like, I don't care if who dies. It's

Vito:

to answer it though, I'm sorry. I I I was now we go off, though. But to say the the the same what I think it really is is it's hard to call because Gemino is but really is like an artist who is an epic movie and it's hard to call someone like that. You know, he's trying to do a pro war message. So he definitely is not pro war, but it is definitely not anti war and it's pro American, and that's the difference between this -- Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vince:

and those are

Vito:

the other anti war films. It's it's still very pro American, which is at the same time

Vince:

it was. Yeah. It's it's no. Listen, I I I'll I'll say this. This is a bold statement. I I can't. The only thing about this movie that I cannot stand is them singing at the end. I've I and and here's the thing.

Vito:

I I I'm kinda with you on this, like It

Vince:

it's it's not that like, it's interesting. It's not that it's, like, stupid or something. It's it's interesting. Yeah. It is. But I just I don't for me personally, it's such a devastating moment, like, even watching it again last night because I knew it was coming, you know. It's like I know what's gonna happen.

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

But I'm watching it and I'm just thinking You know what? In a sense, like, after the okay. So godfather too, at the end of it, we get the scene where everybody's at the you know, he's alone.

Vito:

Right.

Vince:

But we get a a flashback to everybody. And then what happens at the end of it he's back to being alone. You know, it's like he's alone, then he flashbacks to the the one happy the happy time before all shit went down and and everybody's eating at the table. It's like, you know, you know, those you you know, hey, don't you fucking hate hate hate hate hate or whatever or knowing that. But, you know, he's he's his quality and everybody. And they end up alone. In this, they are not alone. They've got each other. That's awesome. Yeah. Like, that's that's to me, like, it's really sad. Because their heartbeat is gone, but they do have each other. And even with Stevie and his and he's a freak now, he's got no legs and, you know, and all this stuff, and Mike is fucked up and, you know, put their But they got each other.

Vito:

They got each other, but and I do think in the end, it did bring them together

Vince:

You brought him together.

Vito:

I don't think DeNiro got with Meryl Streep. I don't think

Vito:

--

Vito:

Yeah. -- John Savage got back with his with for Tonya Aldo. I I I I do You don't think he did? No. In fact, I think probably George Zinsa's character probably turned into the heartbeat at the end. You know Well, he

Vince:

now, that's a good dad.

Vito:

He was a little bit overly emotional within his friends, the whole movie anyway.

Vince:

You know, he's a telly he's one of you know, those fat dudes that are just teddy bears. You know, we all know them. Like, we know, like, some of you chicks out there love like, you you go and get you some of them teddy bear loving too. Like, some of that he is. He really is the He's the university. Yeah. Anything else? That's a great

Vito:

a great moments of the movie.

Vince:

When he plays the piano, I love that scene and watching you in the last night, I thought, like, god, I love this moment because even John could I mean, so much about that moment, but the fact that he plays it and it's such a beautiful you know, I mean, he you know, just talking his character

Vito:

-- Yeah. --

Vince:

you get like, okay, his parents, you know, from early age, made him learn piano and blah blah blah, you know, and he just knows how to do it. He doesn't give a fuck about it. You know, his parents, you know, made him do it as he grew up and he was just, like, whatever. But certain times, it was a perfect thing for this character to do. And and this was the greatest moment, when they're about to leave. And he plays this great little I don't know what you call that little piece, little sonata, whatever the fuck it is.

Vito:

Right to Vietnam. It cuts right to Vietnam,

Vince:

you know. Greatest mask. And but I love that moment because it does show that he's the one that there's a class about his character and that also represents

Vito:

the close-up of a him singing with the choir during the wedding.

Vince:

Yeah. See, yeah, he's the he's He's the artistic one. Right? He's the one. But he but he is the one that he represents their their not Joe. She'll like Red keep

Vito:

the clip together though. Yeah. He's the he's got the bar. They all come to the bar. Right?

Vince:

You know? Yeah. He's the one that is and he, you know, And so I I did what you're saying. I think he's he's the one that's gonna keep them you know, he's gonna have a heart attack in an early age. We know that. Yeah. Definitely. Kevin and Axel, that fucking

Vito:

no. Axel. Axel is a non actor local.

Vince:

Who -- Right.

Vito:

--

Vito:

they were out the locate okay. Oh, you knew that. Yeah. There were locations coming up the niro.

Vince:

No. No. I didn't know that. I actually I You go ahead. Go ahead.

Vito:

Oh, no. I was just I I've seen it in a couple, you know, dear Hunter, retrospective things, but I was reading the the Gemino book. They were just saying when they were location scouting, he was just such a character. And DeNiro was like, you gotta cast this guy. And -- Why?

Vito:

--

Vito:

that was just basically it.

Vince:

Was he a real football player though? Like

Vito:

I don't know if you're a football player. He was just a he was just a he was just a local player.

Vince:

Big fucking dude.

Vito:

Big dude. Yeah.

Vince:

I mean, he's a big that's a big like like, I only you know what? And and I'm just sort of I just thought this

Vito:

is the only movie. It's the only thing he's ever done with Deer Hunter.

Vince:

Okay. So right there, like, I, you know, I think I all I think my even my dad I think it's one of those things that your dad tells you when you're young and you just believe that that's true. I think my dad when I was a kid said, oh, you know, he was really a kicker, you know, or he was really a bully. Yeah. Because they say he would always fed us Yeah. Or they they tell us bullshit that I still believe, like, you know, like, women ain't nothing, you know. Shit like that. You know what

Vito:

I said though about our our dads with our with with watching movies that fuck people like us up, our dads had the craziest one hundred and eighty of movie taste, but they are all within the same cannon almost. For example, like like they'll watch great movies like the Deer Hunter and raging bull and stuff like that. But within like the same watching, you'll be watch like, the next movie will turn into, like, Death Wish Part three with Bronson. Or or the evil that met or or, you know Yes. Yeah. Chuck Doris or something fucking crazy.

Vince:

You know? It's like Well, I mean I don't know. No. That's exactly be right. My dad I mean, yeah. You we'll we'll you know, deer hunter followed by good guys were black or so shit. Yeah, maniac, would you spit out or something? You know what I mean? Like, bizarre. They they had this bizarre taste, and so then

Vito:

but it's still like this macho, alpha, like, you know, Italian style type of film, you know.

Vince:

Here's the thing. It's like

Vito:

Always Callion is all the Deer Hunter.

Vince:

Oh, yeah. And that's and and I think it's I mean, it because it's not just a deero thing. It's like because he's the only

Vito:

Bancozel and Camino directed. So was Oh, yeah.

Vince:

You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right.

Vito:

You're right. Italian has just loved that shit. You know?

Vince:

It's -- Yeah. But Deer Hunter I mean, Deer Hunter's one of those things like I said. I mean, well, let's go back to the ending because I I think that that's an important part that that we gotta, like, it's if you were to ask me on the spot, do I think that this movie? Because, like, the way you let me just kind of paraphrase what you said. The way you saw the ending is that it's not anti American for sure. No. It's it's definitely pro American it might be it's not pro war, but it might be, you know, there might be hints of anti war. Or at least anti Vietnam. So it's like and that's it. And I think that's an important like I think that's an important part it it's like each war is its own war. You know, but, like, remember when you're

Vito:

in the bar during the wedding and that Vietnam soldier come I mean, the the the Marie.

Vince:

Oh my god. Oh my god. It's like You just brought up what I wanted to bring up.

Vito:

Oh, so go ahead. I'm sorry. I was

Vince:

Okay. No. This is perfect. This is perfect. I'm glad you brought this up. Alright. So before I watched Deer Hunter, I had texted you. I said, we were so everybody out that we were gonna do naked cades. Which we will do

Vito:

well, which

Vince:

is women in prison, which is where they belong, doing the things they deserve and need to be done. But before we get to that episode, I just I started watching and I was like, you know, I'm fucking watch I I'm watching Deer Hunter. I gotta watch you know, And before I had put on Deer Hunter, I was scrolling too because right now, Tubi is hot. It's summertime and they've got every they've gotten so many great titles on right now. Yeah. And and one of the titles that I put on first was The it's the it's the direct sequel to Dirty Harry, so it's the vigilante cops. And blah blah blah. He gets a black person. David Soul. Right. Yeah. Who's the other guy?

Vito:

Kit Nevan and Robert Aldrick.

Vince:

Robert, yes. Aldrick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's Oh,

Vito:

and Tim Mathis into it.

Vince:

Oh, and Tim yeah. Yeah. You're fucked. You're right. Like, those four It's crazy. I know that one. That with those four, like, they were all fucking good. They're just like, damn, whatever you want to

Vito:

be lot actually.

Vince:

How Holbrook is such a son of a bitch. Oh. But I love him in that one. But but in that one, he gets a so dirty Harry gets a black partner. And I can't remember the actor. He's been he's been in a lot of stuff. He said, but he gets a blank partner and there's this scene where they're gonna they go to like, a convenience store because it's been robbed several times and they they suspected that, like, the same robbers are gonna come back or some shit like that. Anyway, They're there at the convenience store and they've got the black partner is behind the counter. He's like the bait. And dirty Harry is, you know, behind the reverse window or or mirror or whatever, you know, and he sees these, you know, the bad guys come in. He's like, There's a few there's a couple of salty looking dudes. And one of the bad guys that comes in. He ends up having a great little moment where he throws the when they start robbing the store, he throws the kid to the side. Mhmm. That dude is the guy, the sergeant from Deer Hunter, that says fuck it. At the end of the bar, the the shell shot to sergeant. Oh, okay.

Vito:

And that was like I saw and that

Vince:

was the first time I connected the tune. It was only because I had seen them back to back. So I had just seen an enforcer that scene. And then I started watching Deer Hunter. I see this. I was like, oh, it's the same guy. Paul Di Amato, another Italian. Yeah. And he and and I was like, this guy not only is this guy absolutely going on the list, because that's too. Like, you only need

Vito:

to know

Vito:

I looked him off literally after watching the movie. Oh, I'm so surprised that he popped in my mind and I saw he was Italian. I was like, oh, alright.

Vince:

He and he and he's been in a number of things.

Vito:

He Yeah.

Vito:

He was in more than I thought. I didn't recognize him in theory.

Vince:

He's he's totally been in a ton of good stuff. And he's totally, like, that is absolutely a guy, not only that goes on the list of great characters, but he's a he's got that look. He's got these weird like, dark there's a dark eye thing -- Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vince:

he looks disturbed, you know. You know, like, how do

Vito:

they send us with a bullets off thighin.

Vince:

Yeah. I love that part. Seeing but he's fucking shell shocked. He's at the end of the the bar just like, I just wanna drain.

Vito:

So that's a tough way to look at that soldier because you're right, then there are times where it does it has an anti war element to it. You know I mean, obviously, the the Russian roulette just all be I mean, what it shows and showing the aftermath of what it happens to the

Vince:

And what happens to everybody and how it mean, listenally.

Vito:

Definitely. But still the ending though, it to me, it's still very pro american, you know. Because in the end, it's

Vince:

I do I do agree with that. And listen, I I do think even without the like, you know, I'm not gonna I don't like the song being saying not because of No.

Vito:

I I don't even

Vince:

know that song. It's like I, you know, it's like I don't give a shit about I mean, God bless America is like you know, I don't know. I mean, the the national anthem, you know God bless America that weird one that you kinda know. You know it's like the

Vito:

b side, you know.

Vince:

The b side? It is. It's like it's it's a little sister, don't you, you know, by Elvis. It's the Visa. But it's it's like the movie is so realistic up into that point that it's It's just hard for me to wrap my arms around.

Vito:

It is exactly what I wanted to say about that. And -- Yeah. -- though, that is the only thing. It's like that it's to me, it's it's interesting to put it in there to get people talking. You want that kind of, like, ambivalent ending where you don't know where everyone's at. But It's not what would have happened. You know, it's definitely not would have happened.

Vince:

They would have gotten the longest fuck. They would have, you know, they would have

Vito:

been fine. Probably. There's even a fine

Vince:

a bit of drinking. Yeah. There we go. Some Yeah. Exactly. John Casal would have like, you know, slap some chick or something, you know. It it's it's not what would happen. So mustn't be

Vito:

a people. They can't they can't play nice ever even in No.

Vince:

No. No. No. No. No. But longer they drink. I mean, longer is a That They they they fucking drink vodka like it's water. My accent, ma'am. Oh my god. But I will get on board with you, and I'll take the train to the end of the line saying that, yeah, this is a this is not an anti American movie. This is absolutely Like, if you are in the theater and you're watching this movie and you don't feel like because there's never a moment. I mean, think about it. When when you're watching the war scenes in the second act, it's not like you're seeing the Vietnam as, like, nice people.

Vito:

Yeah. And you don't even know how accurate that was either. Like, he didn't really have any any type of military advisers on set or anything. And the what I read in the final cut book when they're making Heaven's Gate, was a lot of the critics that gave it praise felt duped later that they shouldn't have gave it as good of a review as they did because no one knows how truthful it was or any of that.

Vince:

Oh, yeah. I've heard this. Yeah. I've I've heard that, like, you know, there's never been any reports of Russian roulette being played. Well, you

Vito:

know what? Gives us Like, fuck. It's my whole I I think it's such a great Like, the great

Vince:

built in center values. It's the it's one of the greatest scenes. I mean, guess what? You know what motherfuckers? I've never seen a flying delorean either. You cock suckers Like, you know, that's

Vito:

You're looking at Pocalypse now. Pocalypse now is not even, like I mean, you had, like

Vince:

That's funny.

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

Like, that's not even yeah. That that they're like I mean, reality. Yeah. That is not gonna believe me.

Vito:

That has not come one of the biggest movies, though, that, like, Vietnam vet. Talk about not being able to watch because the reality that it gets in your race so much is -- Which concepts now?

Vito:

--

Vince:

oh, yeah.

Vito:

You know? And it's probably because they didn't have to play Russian Gillette in the it'd be a tough.

Vince:

Well, and here's the thing. It's like this movie is a it's not about the action. There's no I mean,

Vito:

No. I agree.

Vince:

There there's no real action in the movie. You could say all day long, like, oh, you know, well, he

Vito:

he didn't have the blame.

Vince:

Film. Like Yeah. He, you know, he's a a platoon is a Vietnam film. You know what I mean? Like, that's realistic. Like, that that was that you know, he was in he saw that shit happen. Platoon happened. Like, that's the kind of

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

Like, that's real. And that's disturbing.

Vito:

Like, that's probably the most accurate life. Yeah.

Vince:

That's just that that's the kind of stuff that makes you like, you know, I don't wanna be in in that shit. Like, you don't know who shooting at you or whatever. But Deer Hunter is it's it's a complicated movie because I think it is it's not anti it's pro american, but it's like, come on. You know, I I think at the least, it's like, It's pro American, these guys are wrong, communism is wrong, but this is what we're doing to our people because we're drafting these young kids.

Vito:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's sort of definitely

Vince:

I'm not agreeing. It's like I I mean, it may and I'm not, like, shedding any new light on it, but I think that that's really all it is. It's just America's great war is necessary. But, goddamn, this is what happens. And that's what all art is. Art art is not supposed to chain is not supposed to is supposed to represent. You know, that's what that was doing. It's just showing you this is what's happening.

Vito:

I think too, some of it is looking at the moment in time with Gemino. So this is his second movie. He comes out

Vito:

--

Vince:

What was number one? What was number one? -- under bold Yes.

Vito:

So he comes out and loves that. And now him and his partner, Joanne Carelli, their whole story is interesting, and we can do a whole episode. Was

Vince:

she telling?

Vito:

Yeah. And now that was his, like

Vince:

I don't wanna say it

Vito:

was it. Maybe his girlfriend for a while, but she was certainly the closest confidante he's ever had in his life. Right. And and she always played Badcock and She's like a weird credit in Deer Hunter. She's like production consultant or whatever, but everyone always said that was the only person that he really ever answered to was joined Crowley, but these two is team. Right? Right.

Vince:

He

Vito:

they come out to LA, and he, you know, works on scripts. He, you know, he wrote I think he wrote one of the dirty Harry.

Vince:

Row wrote wrote the first one. Dirty Harry.

Vito:

Real okay. I thought it was -- Oh,

Vince:

no. -- second one.

Vito:

But anyways, but these two, they come to they come to they come to LA and they they go ahead, they make thunderbolt life, but they meet clinically I mean, they end up putting a script together that was almost almost flotation ish, you know, in a way just a very easy sell action type movie. They get Clint on board. Clint made him a deal, was like, you if I don't like what you're doing after a few days, I can fire you at any time. They agreed to do it. And at least that fascinating guy.

Vince:

I love Claire van.

Vito:

So that happened. And then I don't know what the fuck he did, but he just knew how to hijack fucking Hollywood. They ended up putting this together, and all the producers hated Jimino, kept getting bought out from, you know, different companies that sell to another company, and it was just, like, crazy how it eventually got made. All kinds of, you know, writers in and out, producers in and out, all this crowd Well,

Vince:

it's because of Is it because thunderbolt and lightfoot was a hit that he got the car blanche? Or

Vito:

I I I think he made the car blanche happen for himself. I don't think it was ever really given to him. And that's what's so fascinating about him and Joanne Carelli together. They kind of back door their way into that position. And that's why it's hard to get a good read on Deer Hunter as what it represents because, I mean, this is a director who fuck with the material the whole time and I don't know. Maybe it is another one of the movies that we just dig too deep into and it was a novel movie with a couple great, you know, Vietnam. I mean, moments and that fucking opening wedding was great. It it is a great thing.

Vince:

I I mean, look, listen, I think you said something. I think you hit it right on the nail, which is, generally speaking, when you make something, when you make a film, and it all works, and it's cool, and people love it, you know, I don't think he go I mean, listen, think of it like this, is like Stanley Cuprick when he goes and makes the shining. Apparently, he has all of these things going on that he wants to be noticed and and, you know, that he's doing, you know, not subliminal, but, you know, semi subliminal. And nobody notices that shit until documentaries come out years and years and years later. My point is that I think Chimino knew a good idea. He knew a good way to to approach it. And and like any good director, he was like, okay, I'm gonna make this really cool movie. And I have a really good idea, and I'll I'll put some artistic flares. I mean, look, them singing America the beautiful at the end, you know, I would buy it if you told me right now that he just came up with that on the spot and said, hey, you know, I just sing this. This would be weird. You know what I mean? Like, there's a part of me that thinks that, like, some of this and I'm not seeing an accident. I'm just saying that I think some of this is just I think this will be cool. Like, I think this would be a cool moment. I don't know why yet. Maybe it'll flesh out because that's art. You know, that's

Vito:

possible. Yeah.

Vince:

That's the talent of being an artist. Right? Is that, like, sometimes, something seems cool. You don't know why, but let's try it this way. And then years later, maybe people dissect it and you think, oh, okay. Well, Like, there's a

Vito:

lot of intent behind, like, Heaven's Gate. But when you watch Deer Hunter, it just it's it's it does feel like there's a lot of us try this now and we're gonna do this next. Where he is all over the place in

Vince:

Was he into yayo? Was he into coach?

Vito:

I don't know.

Vince:

I don't know.

Vito:

Yeah. His private life is the most craziest because what he would do is nobody Joanne Crowley was probably the only one that would ever didn't know anything. I mean so much weird stuff behind this guy, but nobody ever knew anybody. He had like one friend that was this person. One friend that was that did this. One friend that was, like, his hairdresser or whatever.

Vince:

That's, like, an Italian right there. No. You like you ship right there.

Vito:

Yeah. They didn't know each other. So it was really hard to know, like, who the real Michael quote unquote ever was. I mean, remember the whole sex change thing.

Vince:

That was the wildest thing when you told me that.

Vito:

Yeah. I mean, I have

Vince:

I've never I've never I've never knew about I mean, you know, I'm not gonna lie.

Vito:

In a way. It's true in a way. Like, not even in the book, they didn't really know for sure.

Vince:

But Those pictures are him or weird. I mean, I'm not gonna lie.

Vito:

I mean, like, altered it.

Vince:

They're all they're all it's so strange. It's not just plastic surgery. It's like, It's it's the pictures that you can see on they're just he's like a different being, you know, a different human. But, you know, when you said that I when you told me that, I was like, whoa. What?

Vito:

Yeah. The the one thing I got from him and from reading his book and I I always said this when it comes to Jimino, I got this from him was like, I don't think he'd I think he hailed himself. And I think he didn't like to look at himself in the mirror, stuff like that. And I just think after Heaven's Gate happened,

Vince:

If he wasn't an ugly dude. No. He was not a bad boy,

Vito:

not girls. And

Vince:

Like, what is wrong with him?

Vito:

No. They said they go. I I, you know, the there was one person that was supposedly really close to him that knew about his possible sex change. And Who knows? Who knows?

Vince:

Don't I ever let me tell you something right now. Don't you ever get a sex shit. You motherfucker. Don't you remember? I promise you anything.

Vito:

I promise you that.

Vince:

Damn it. This is This is This world is crashing around him.

Vito:

I but going back to Deer Hunter, I I I just talking about that with him alone, shows me how close he is to Michael, where it's just you can never figure out who the real person is. Just like Michael was he can't figure that out. And that's

Vince:

Michael was not a pussyhound. No. Stan, John Kissell is a pussyhound.

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

Christopher Walker is the you know, Nikki doesn't even need to be a hound. Just he just you know, the pussy comes in.

Vito:

Yeah. He's a who gets all the girls.

Vince:

He just he he doesn't even have it's it he doesn't even have to try. And then, you know, you know you know that you know, George's son's just so plus he hell. He's looking always and He's

Vito:

looking. That's about

Vince:

I don't know if he's getting, but he's he'll take whatever. Yeah. And and and Axel, you know, he's he's he likes you know, they're all interested, but

Vito:

What about that opening when their their last day at the steel mill, and they're walking they're walking through a shower.

Vince:

This is a big old man

Vito:

taking dollars dick's head about this. And they're all sick and handsome each other.

Vince:

Like Alright. Good luck. I thought about You

Vito:

know what there?

Vince:

It's funny. You bring that up. I thought about that last night when I was watched. I was like, you know, what is strange job? Because I mean, like, even when I was in gym and in junior high in high school, it's like, I never had to you know, you didn't go into a shower. I never went into a shower and saw naked, you know, dudes. Like, it it just seems like an odd And I get it because you you're you know, they have to Yeah. I could

Vito:

see, like, bleeding with testosterone. It's just Yeah.

Vince:

It's like you got it. And it's like just men, like, you know, these old I mean, can you imagine that your daily life is you get off at five o'clock and you walk and and you you walk through you know, you you go and shower with these crusty old ninety year old dudes that are just fucking they're they're they're fucking cranks are just hanging down. You're like, goddamn. They go too

Vito:

far, you know.

Vince:

That and again, that's a great touch right there. No pun intended, but that's a great, like, little moment of just this is what this daily life is. They fucking work this hard ass. Man. Ready ass nasty job, and they got old fucking dude, Dick. Just hanging out in the shower. It's just

Vito:

like to nail it. Always like just blood Western PA. You know, that just everything about it. I wish they would view the mountain scenes. The black deer hunting scenes were not in Pennsylvania because they shot in the summertime. And there wasn't any or fall or or some anyways, there wasn't any snow. So they had to go to Washington state to film those scenes.

Vince:

It's mountains are beautiful there. God. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. And then, I guess, they're supposed to be, like, the appilations or stuff. But, you know, speaking of that, I I do wanna say this about the hunting scenes. Not in the first one is, like, I mean, to me, the first hunting scene is all about this is this. You know? Like that. Yes.

Vito:

Yeah. So

Vince:

That that and and leaving George and and that and pulling the old prank on George Sons that were they Oh, he's taking a piss, and they keep driving off. I did that to my old Walmart. I can't tell you how money because of that movie. Because of Deer Hunter, the number of times I did that to my mom or any girl I dated where I would just, like, they'd go into the gas station or to the video store and drop off they come back and I just fucking drive off a little bit. They were like, stop.

Vito:

That's just the the good though. It's

Vito:

that one.

Vince:

Hunting scene. Oh, that's a great yeah. But the second hunting scene is the hunting scene because

Vito:

--

Vito:

Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vito:

that's yeah.

Vince:

That's not only is it because he can't he's just, you know, he can't shoot him. He's like, alright. Alright. You know that fucking. But With Dan, with Stan. Now, I think that was the last scene he Legend. I believe yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So legend. Hasn't. And this is I don't know. I you know, I've I've only heard this, but it was I've heard it was the last scene they shot with Kizal. Yeah. And that they used a real bullet. I heard that too. I heard I I hope it's true. And if it is true, I hope we do that sometime with some somehow. Like, I don't The fact is that I can totally see that just being bonkers true. Like, Mhmm. I don't I mean, because here's the thing. You're Robert DeNiro, you're John Casale, you're all you're Michael Schnee, you have all you're the you know, you're basically the the power players of Hollywood, and you could do whatever you want. And I could see them saying and especially John comes out because that dude had more balls than fucking wants to live. Yeah. Six months to

Vito:

live.

Vince:

He don't give a fuck. And I could see him saying, like, put a live one in that because I want the you know, I I see that being real. I said, personally, I don't think

Vito:

if I I can't see De Niro doing it. I can see Chimino saying yes, I can see John Gizelle saying to do it, but I can't see De Niro being like, okay, put a live round just because if it did go off, he just killed his, you know Okay. He did it. I

Vince:

just Okay.

Vito:

Even though I wanted it to be true,

Vince:

I listened to that. I'm with you. I'm live I'm with you, but if you I mean, look, the scene is broken. It's not like you It's just on DeNira. It's not a two hander. Like, the close ups are just because all with the with somebody holding the gun. It could have been. Listen, it could have been that. It could have been Gemino himself. It could have been. Hey. I I I that's what I can see is It it'd be like me and you. It'd be like, okay. Vido, just put a bullet and I gun and put it to my head, like, fucking Ben Ben is is is out there. Vans out in the trailer. Put the bullet to my head, put the bullet in it. I can see DeNiro not being around, like, he's he's at his trailer and they just filmed that close-up and they were like, okay, let's just do one, one take of the bullets in the gun. And you got it at my forehead. I don't know where it is in the chamber, but it's at my forehead. I could see that.

Vito:

Yeah. That means yeah. Yeah. I could see it too. Especially with that group of guys, I could see it. Yeah. No question about it. I could see it's something that

Vince:

I, you know, you know, there are there are many avenues with this film, and I and and, you know, we can I mean, I I think we could go on on and on? But I Yeah. We'll we'll

Vito:

wrap it up here soon.

Vince:

We'll wrap it up here soon, but but everybody. No. No. No. No. This is the the people like, they're not running from this. They want this one. They want this to be stripping.

Vito:

And this is my show's name. Sake. I mean, I I didn't tell you which amino movie. We gotta do it, you know.

Vince:

This is the only I mean, to me, this is the only I mean, honestly, besides thunderbolt lightfoot. This is the only Chimino movie that I've seen all the way through.

Vito:

Well, there's Heaven's Gate.

Vince:

I gotta still I start to see that on Flick's HQ.

Vito:

They have

Vince:

heaven's gate. And it's like I think if I think it's the legit

Vito:

oh, okay. It probably is. They did the the real one's floating around now everywhere. It's

Vince:

It's like over three hours. Yeah. It's like legit.

Vito:

What about you're the dragon? Have you I've seen

Vince:

a lot of that, but I've never seen it full. I've seen Obviously, I've seen the ending, the bridge scene. And I've seen, to me, the best scene is, like, you know, when his wife gets killed and then he's at the funeral, And he's just fucking everybody touches his shoulder, he just cries and hugs him, you know. Yeah. Like, that is a scene.

Vito:

I mean, the only one of his that I don't really I'm not a huge, huge fan of is why I did not see it. I I I haven't seen the son chaser that he made, but the only book I'm not a fan of really the the cecilient.

Vince:

I was just about to say, like, this is kinda, like,

Vito:

different hours. If never seen desperate

Vince:

I I've seen a little of that. I've seen a little of that, but I haven't seen it.

Vito:

Pretty good.

Vince:

The sicilian, though, you know, it's funny because Did you do an episode in the society? Didn't you do an yeah. Yeah. It it

Vito:

was just a disappointment to me. I had the VHS when you go through it and and everything, but it's based off of the Italian. I mean, it's based off of the godfather, like, kind of, you know, novels and stuff.

Vince:

Like, like, the those ears in Italy.

Vito:

Yeah. There's a book called Cecilians. They couldn't get the rights to Michael Corleone because Paramount, so it's just

Vince:

Well, for

Vito:

Cecil Lambert.

Vince:

I mean yeah. And, you know, I mean, look, he was good in one thing, and that's the highlander. That's it. Okay. Of his Yeah. I live

Vito:

a wide cast of his it.

Vince:

It's like because he's he's from Sweden or something. He's got a weird ax, you know,

Vito:

that's what I'm saying. Timino sometimes cast very you know, suspect sometimes, but then sometimes he hits the nail in the head, you know. I think I said his eye to me is is the best. I mean, he can make just he can make things look so I mean, the cinematography of of Heaven's Gate is oh, even Dear Hunter and all of his movies and always just

Vince:

And he's an actor's director. Like, he's I mean, Mickey Rourke always talked fucking highly about China.

Vito:

Yeah.

Vince:

And because he you know, and and and Mickey Rourke is I mean, I love Mickey Rourke, but he's also like a prima Donah. You know what I mean? He's like at his own issues, but he's he's super, like, into himself and he's into being directed by an actress. You know, he wants to be given the act three directions.

Vito:

Absolutely. And I and I as we close out, I do wanna say, I do feel it to me, you know, god. You know, I've said this before. I've even said this. On one of the shows. I do feel like he got kinda really fucked over from Hollywood. And I suppose and and really, supposedly, that's what the whole nineteen eighties Oscar was about whenever the the heaven's gating happened, but everyone thought that Raging Bowl was gonna win best picture. But it ended up being Ordinary people were a Redford movie. So that was sort of, like, Hollywood. That represented old Hollywood in a way. Yeah. It was kind of like the system telling all these new directors fuck you. We're taking him back over now. And I just think he was the follow guy for that. Even to this day, people still talk about, you know, Heaven's Gate's what destroyed the seventies. And I'm like,

Vince:

well No.

Vito:

It's just the fall guy.

Vince:

That was It was

Vito:

something under, anyways.

Vince:

Yeah. And and here's the thing. Like and I and I think

Vito:

they didn't lose any money. They ended up golf they ended up fucking there was a tax write off, you know.

Vince:

Well, and I and I think this is the perfect way to sort of, like, wrap up this episode is that I agree with you. Like, I've never seen Heaven's Gate I have it. And I need to. Like, I need to. That's to

Vito:

do it. I I've I've recorded two Heaven's Gate episodes, and I couldn't put him up because something happened. I don't like It's like my headwinds gate. It's headwinds gate. So we got

Vince:

Yeah. I

Vito:

you know?

Vince:

I need to see it and and I just need to, like, just sit down and watch it because I know it's gonna be good, especially like the version. Yeah. I I think -- Great.

Vito:

--

Vince:

I think that camino, like, whatever personality wise he was, like, that that was Obviously, that was a factor in a lot of things, but I do believe that Deer Hunter was excellently rewarded. I think that it was right on the money. It got what it deserved. Yeah. It should be always I mean, to me, I think it's his best film easily because it's just obviously, it's, you know, one of the very few I've seen him his, but I also just think it's got the I mean, the act everything we've said in this episode, I mean, it's a it's it's a man movie. It drips man. It but it's also it's not you know, it's respectful woman. I mean, because it shows, like, how shitty men can be, but it also shows how sweet they can be. You know, you can Yep. And and I wanna throw this in because I just wanted to surprise you with this. Alright. So you I just thought that it was I like how things work out sort of, you know, from the ether. You mentioned a Z channel at the very top of this episode -- Yeah.

Vito:

--

Vince:

in the z channel documentary, which I think every everybody should watch. Yeah. It talks about so many great things. And one of the things it talks about, one of one of the filmmakers it brings up is this guy named Stuart Cooper. Who made this movie named Overlord and -- Yeah. -- made a few a few things. And the reason I'm bringing up all this, and it does tie in to to Chimino in a sense because z channel did tout not only Deer Hunter, but it touted heaven's gate, like, the director's side, and that was really the thing.

Vito:

Ones who first showed

Vince:

You're the ones who showed oh, look, you gotta speed this ship because you guys don't know what you're talking about. Well, I always wondered when I saw that documentary, this Stuart Cooper guy who, you know, where did he come from? Who was he? He was American, but he was and British films, like, what the fuck? Well, yesterday, and it all ties in because yesterday is what I just started fucking drinking and watching a bunch of Man gravy movies. And the very first movie I watched for any of this was the dirty dozen. And that goddamn Stewart Cooper was one of the dirty dozen.

Vito:

Get out of here.

Vince:

He was one of the God after he does it, he even gets a cool blessing. He's him and the other guy get killed in the boat at the very end when they're hugging boat up. And and he didn't do much acting. He did that. Seen or not seen. I mean, he he's he's one of the dozen, but he he he did that movie. But he became a he just said, I wanna be a director and he used his carte blanche as being one of the dirty dozen to get into the directing blinds. Thing. I throw that into everybody here because listen, we're talking about Michael Chimino, one of the all time greatest directors. If you want to, like, dive into great director's great films see the z channel documentary. It it gives it it talks about Heaven's Gate. It talks about this movie. It talks about Heaven's Gate. It gives a really great promotion of Heaven's Gate of why you should see this movie. If you are an aspiring filmmaker, like, why you should see the you know, what would you call it? The director's cut? The Oh, yeah. Yeah. The director's cut. The the one that Shamino wanted everybody to see And, you know, I don't know. I just I I think that's a a great way to kinda start, you know, if you're an aspiring filmmaker to kinda jump into this. And if you're just a dude, fucking watch some deer hunter and

Vito:

fucking Yeah. Yeah. Right. Get that get that dude dripping off you.

Vito:

There I go.

Vince:

Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ.

Vince:

Jesus Christ for your whole her life. Jesus Christ is That's so cruel. Soon silly. You marry this girl. You live now with me, and you go with these bottles to the business.

Vince:

One flight. It's one flight. Understand. Slacker on push.

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Vito Trabucco

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