The Readirect Podcast
Hunger Games Deep Dive + The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes
Journey with us as we navigate the heart-wrenching narrative of sacrifice, rebellion, and hope in Susan Collins' Hunger Games trilogy, and the much-anticipated prequel, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.
We'll paint a vivid picture of the oppressive regime, love triangles, and plot twists that keep readers turning the pages. We'll enlighten you on the intricate relationships, sacrifice, and courage that make Katniss an unforgettable character. But we're not stopping at the trilogy. We'll also venture into the prequel's realm and dissect Coriolanus Snow's ambitions, his shrewd tactics during the 15th Hunger Games, and his intricate relationship with Lucy Gray.
Plus, a brief discussion of Fourth Wing at the beginning for a reading update from Emily.
Books We've Read Recently:
Journey with us as we navigate the heart-wrenching narrative of sacrifice, rebellion, and hope in Susan Collins' Hunger Games trilogy, and the much-anticipated prequel, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.
We'll paint a vivid picture of the oppressive regime, love triangles, and plot twists that keep readers turning the pages. We'll enlighten you on the intricate relationships, sacrifice, and courage that make Katniss an unforgettable character. But we're not stopping at the trilogy. We'll also venture into the prequel's realm and dissect Coriolanus Snow's ambitions, his shrewd tactics during the 15th Hunger Games, and his intricate relationship with Lucy Gray.
Plus, a brief discussion of Fourth Wing at the beginning for a reading update from Emily.
Books We've Read Recently:
Welcome to the redirect podcast. My name is Abigail Hewitt and I'm Emily Rojas.
Speaker 2:The redirect podcast is a show where we shift the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and how those themes show up in real lived experiences.
Speaker 1:On today's episode, we're discussing Susan Collins Hunger Games series and the release of the upcoming adaptation of the Hunger Games prequel, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. But first, if you, enjoy the podcast.
Speaker 2:You know the drill. Please think about supporting us in a few ways. First, you can leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts or anywhere else that will let you do a sub review, I don't even care where, and just let us know that you love this show.
Speaker 1:We would also love for you to follow us on Instagram at redirect podcast and interact with us on Instagram. Some of you guys false on Instagram. We've swapped books with you, we've traded recommendations, we chat in the DM. So you know, reach out and finally, if you really really like the show, we'd love for you to share it with a friend. You know it, we know it. Showing our show with a friend is the best way to help us grow our community of book loving nerds.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I want to shout out the six people that give us a five star review on Spotify, because I just saw that for the first time that they let you do reviews there, and we have six people who give us five star reviews even though we don't even say Spotify in the intro. So shout out to you guys. You don't even need instructions, you just do it, and we love you yeah.
Speaker 1:You're the best, okay, emily.
Speaker 2:Abiel, hey, hey, by the way, to all the listeners, I made them on my promise in the last episode. I did read fourth wing in between our last conversation and now. Actually, I don't even know if that's what I promised.
Speaker 1:I think it was something no, you promised to read. I'm thinking of ending things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that one is like a month's wait at the Libby you guys. I remember promising something. I'm like wait, was it fourth wing? Never mind.
Speaker 1:But you did. You did in the past promise to read fourth wing.
Speaker 2:I finally did and you guys, I loved it. I loved it. I'm like the book that I'm procrastinating talking about right now, which but listen okay, the there are fourth wing haters out there. And.
Speaker 1:I respect. That's fine. That's fine. That is not the culture we're building here.
Speaker 2:We're here to hate on only the things we hate on, and we do not hate on calling and no, we don't.
Speaker 2:You know why, though? Because I saw someone describe this as a spicier YA romance with a dash of fantasy. That's why I think I loved it, because you know what? I don't like fantasy books, but this is like if you were reading um PETA and um Katniss to transition to what we're actually talking here to talk about and you were thinking why don't they make out more than read fourth wing? Because that'll just give you everything. She's got braided hair, she's got black outfits, she's got some interesting skills. You just need to read this and that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm trying to tell people. Yes, where I'm like, this is great. If you are nervous or skeptical about reading fantasy, this is a great toe in, absolutely because it is grounded and a lot of things that we already have context for, like school and war and the really the hardest thing to get around is like magic and dragons Also, those aren't those are very complex. Those are things we're already familiar with you know, dragon tails.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're like Harry Potter, like the idea of having magical skills isn't that crazy. Yes, I will say that like it is a slippery slope though, because I did mention at the end of our last episode that I was reading Akatar Sure Series and I finally got into it. Well, now I'm really into it and I really needed it to satisfy the whole that finishing fourth wing left and now I'm just like fully blazing through and that magic is a lot more complex and there are lots of things going on. So it's like a gateway drug, basically.
Speaker 2:Fourth, wing is a gateway.
Speaker 1:I do think, though, that I don't. I wouldn't have an interest in reading fantasy if it wasn't a phantom ants or what do they call it fantasy romance, like a? How do they combine this with Romantic Romantic? Yes, I don't, I would be interested in reading fantasy at all if there was no romance component. Sure, this has nothing to do with the topic of today's episode.
Speaker 2:I just had to talk about it. I mean, I've just been over here on my own reading fourth wing, trying not to text you about it because I want to save it for the pod for content. I'm trying to make content out of my life, but I needed to talk about it and also somehow TikTok knew I read it because now all I see on. Tiktok is a fourth wing.
Speaker 1:uh, tiktok post so there's so much good stuff out there on fourth and there is there. And for those who are also fellow fourth wing fans, everyone knows everyone, that's anyone knows that the second book, iron Flame, is coming out November 7th. We won't be immediately book clubbing it because we have some other very exciting episodes planned that we cannot reveal yet but are very cool and different for us. Yes, but around the end of November we will be discussing in detail, in heavy detail, the Iron Flame.
Speaker 1:So, I saw a peak at a quote that Rebecca Yarra posted from this, I think I saw this as well.
Speaker 2:I saw something, I saw a quote. I close here we go. It was Zaden talking, I believe. Yes, here we go. Yes.
Speaker 1:Here's the quote Okay, I'm still really damned angry with you. I lift my chin, just as furious with myself for getting into this position, for feeling whatever all this bull Feeling is mutual. Slides one hand into my hair, then sucks a breath through his teeth when his fingers meet my skin at the base of my spine. But it's possible to be angry while still madly, wildly, uncontrollably in love with me?
Speaker 2:His mouth crashes into mine it is serving us. It's giving completely irrevocably in love with me. Just put it in syringe.
Speaker 1:I want it directly into my veins intravenous.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Now let's talk about a book I could barely stand to read the Hunger Games Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry because I went on to Reddit, I went on to Twitter, I went on to the forums. I tried to find out. Am I the only one who hated this book? I think the answer is generally yes. I apologize to all of you guys who love this book. It was just not it for me, but we're going to talk all about the Hunger Games today, not just this prequel. But I just had to get it out of the way. If that is your literary darling, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:I just hated it so much Backing up a little bit. The reason we're talking about this book, if we hate it, is as a reminder on November 17th, shout out Emma.
Speaker 2:Happy birthday.
Speaker 1:Emma, there's a movie coming out, an adaptation of the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. There hasn't been a lot of hype around that and probably because no one cares.
Speaker 2:I think people do care as.
Speaker 1:Hunger Games fans that you and I are. We had to talk about it. That is why we're talking about this today. We're going to talk about everything relating to Hunger Games, not just this book, but that'll be a big part of it. We did talk a little bit about Hunger Games in our dystopian books episode. We'll try not to be too redundant from what we discussed in that episode, but if you haven't checked that out, go listen to that. As an accessory to this episode.
Speaker 2:That was a brief mention of a lot of different dystopians. This is a deep dive on just the Hunger Games. That's your intro and this is the deeper dive into the specific books.
Speaker 1:So yes, so, emily, background on the Hunger Games. The Hunger Games the first book. It was released earlier. Than I remember it was actually released in 2008.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember that because I remember this. Okay, I did not remember this with Twilight. I don't know how I found those books, I don't know how I came to read them, but this I vividly remember. It was here, 2008. And my friend Abby shout out if you listen to this podcast, my middle school friend, abby. She brought this book to drama class with her and I remember exactly where I was sitting in the theater in drama class in seventh grade or whatever I was in 2008,. Could have been eighth grade Can't do math that fast. Might have been seventh or eighth.
Speaker 1:You were in both. You were in both grades that year.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So at some point during that year she brought it into drama class and was like Emily, you have to read this book. So I got in on the ground floor with this one because of Abby forcing me to read it and I remember it was so addicting. So I was, I was remember reading it like right after it was released. Somehow I got in and I remember I vividly changed my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you probably put me onto these books, sure I. My vivid memory of reading Hunger Games was, I mean, I think I was. I don't think I. I think I probably read it in like 2009.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on the ground floor yeah.
Speaker 1:I was sitting in my bed and I shout out to my fellow almond mom friends out there Solid, my mom was not really like truly an almond mom but we were in an ingredient household in this phase. And so I needed a late night snack for Hunger Games, and I was eating out of a pig per cup, a combination of semi-sweet chocolate chips and craisans, and I was just eating that as like a little homemade treat. Yeah, and still, to this day, I associate the taste of that snack with these books Amazing.
Speaker 1:Very, this is really content nobody wanted but no, it's perfect.
Speaker 2:And do you also remember that feeling when you read the second book and you got to the last page and he's Gail or whoever isn't it Gail who says, Katniss, there is no district 12. And that's the end of the book, and there was no book out after that. You had to wait like a year or whatever. That feeling is so scarred on my mind. I mean, she really did what no one else could do, which is that that cliffhanger is wild.
Speaker 1:She did it like no other. Yes, so I mean, I imagine everyone listening has some sort of context for the Hunger Games. But just in case you don't, the Hunger Games are a series of three books, plus a prequel, centering teenage girl Katniss Everdeen, who lives in the near future in what used to be North America after the devastating effects of climate change. If you ever look up a map of Pan Am, you will see that it looks like North America with like a lot of rising sea levels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there she is, on a quest to survive the barbaric Hunger Games and eventually overthrow the oppressive, oppressive government regime that put her there. There's also a great love triangle, the best love triangle. It starts honestly unsuspecting girl from like what would formerly be like West Virginia area, who's just trying to survive this horrible circumstance, which is put in where she's to fight to the death with a bunch of other kids from across the country, and it turns into this epic quest for her to overthrow the government.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And lead a rebellion.
Speaker 2:And all she was trying to do was, you know, protect her family, help them survive, protect her sister, and it turns into a full scale rebellion by the end of the books.
Speaker 1:Yes, and the gem of this trilogy is one of the best book boyfriends of all time.
Speaker 2:And it's not.
Speaker 1:Gail oh.
Speaker 2:Gail. Gail and Dane are in the same war, chemical, more chemical war, criminal jail to me and they should never be released and they belong there.
Speaker 1:And for my acotargarly is Tamlin is in. That too.
Speaker 2:It's Tamlin, dane and Gail, and I'm not joking there are bad people in love triangles, and then there's war criminals and Gail is a war criminal Not, but not even hyperbolic. He literally is a war criminal. He literally blew up children. So anyways, shout out to Pita for being the king of our hearts.
Speaker 1:Also what I realized when I was making this outline is that this was fake dating before fake dating was really a thing. They were fake dating. Well, katniss was fake dating yes, in the Hunger Games to survive and Pita just loved her and he didn't know it was fake dating until they got out of the games.
Speaker 2:So that was so devastating.
Speaker 1:It is devastating. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so yeah. Book two they have to continue the fake dating thing and rebellion is going on around the districts and Katniss and Pita are sent back to the Hunger Games.
Speaker 2:Honestly yeah, this is a fire plot twist as well Because I just read, read these books not that long ago. Um, I think maybe, like towards the end of last year, I reread them. Well, okay, no, that's not what I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of this game, so, like, I just read this. Anyways, I read Peter's games not that long ago, earlier this year, but, um, we'll get to that and I'll read it again.
Speaker 2:Yes, but they spend so much like, honestly, the first half of this book is just their victory tour Hamich being drunk, them trying to figure out their relationship.
Speaker 1:And then why it's my favorite trilogy? Uh-huh, because there's the least amount of violence, yes, and the most love Like, and this is my favorite of the adaptations. Um, I really like this movie.
Speaker 2:It's so good these okay, we'll talk about the movies, but anyways, then all of a sudden, I mean to have them be sent back into the Hunger Games. I mean now you read it and you know that that's what happened. But at the time I mean I just think this is a genius plot device. Like you think they're safe, you think you obviously know they're struggling against President Snow, um, who I now hate more than I thought possible. Um, you know, you know there's like political tension. But for them to then be sent back into the games, that was not even something as a reader, you would have considered, and then to throw that on the table is just, it's a great.
Speaker 1:And it's a great as a way to bring in new lovable characters. Yes, Um, so that's great too, because you know, by virtue of the fact that most of the first book was spent inside the arena, a lot of characters that we were introduced to died.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you kind of need a new side character Fresh blood. So we get Finnick, we get um Joey Joanna, we get um nuts and bolts nuts and bolts was her name, again BT and mags yeah, we get um. We get more of Hamitch because he's doing more behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:He's somewhat committed to sobriety at some points.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so we get like more of a. Which we find out at the end of the book slash movie is that these, that group of tributes, was really plotting behind Pita and Kandace's back a rescue uh to try to get out of the game. They're aligned in the rebellion and their integral parts of Mockingjay. That's another reason I like that she chose to send them back to the arena.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's. It's kind of interesting because on its face it seems like lazy writing, because you're just doing the same thing again, but she does it so differently so in an established plot device, which is the quarterquell which had been discussed previously. It's not like hey, I just ran out of ideas, let's do the hunger games again.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no, there was so well thought out and it's also so different.
Speaker 2:It's such a different experience. The arena is different, which I thought was, you know, a great development from how the hunger games apparently were in the past, where the arena just was the same every year.
Speaker 1:Um so, that Katniss changes with the arena. Yes, so the first time around she's just kind of like trying to get through. The second time around she has like nothing to lose. And she is now like the first time around she's trying to survive so she can get home to Prim. The second time around she's trying to keep Pita alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's like at the expense of my life. I want Pita to win these games. He will survive and get out of here, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the mindset changes?
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember that moment, too, where he gets electrocuted by the electric fence and he, his heart stops, and then Katniss um does CPR and revives him and brings him back to life. And that moment where Phoenix like, oh, you really do actually care about him. I thought I thought it was a hundred percent for show, but there's obviously some part of this that's real or you would just let him die we're in the hunger games, you know why would you bring him back to life? That's one less person you have to worry about, but I just. That moment is so beautiful and nice.
Speaker 2:You cannot fake date without having a little bit of feelings for the person you're fake dating is for all these fake daters out there. Just don't do it If you don't want to fall in love?
Speaker 1:Right, and I am going to specifically target Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey with this Are you a fake dating, totally? Are they maybe also having a crush on each other while they're doing it? Yes, how could you not? How could you not? How could?
Speaker 2:you not? Anyway, look at all the people in movies that fall for each other and like have affairs on their actual spouses. You can't act like you're in love without something happening.
Speaker 1:Here's what I'm going to say. Tom Holland and Zendaya yes, they a hundred. You cannot convince me. That did not start as a PR relationship, absolutely. And now they're in love.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about the most real and most devastating and most traumatizing, heartbreaking PR relationship ever, and that's Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield. That was real and don't tell me it wasn't real. That was real and it broke me, but they started off for sure as another uh, spider, gwen, fake couple.
Speaker 1:I want. I want a romance novel recommendation for anyone listening about a PR relationship turned real.
Speaker 2:I think someone did a fake one about Travis. I'm sure in like 24 hours. I haven't seen people roasting it on Tik Tok, but no, a good one. If you guys have a real good one of like two celebrities and a PR romance, if, on love, we would love to read that. Yeah, I would love to.
Speaker 1:That's everything I love in life right there. Yeah, that's what I want. Okay, so back to the book. The also remember, like the, just being totally gagged. When he's like I would, I would have no regrets, except for Katniss pregnant. Yes, oh my gosh, I was gagged and I'm still gagged every time I watch that movie.
Speaker 2:Honestly, shout out to Peter Peter and his like press skills, because every single time he was doing those interviews he had something up his sleeve. But that one was crazy, and I mean ingenious, because I think a big part of the war on the capital and on this regime is that the people in the capital had been a part of the system for so long that there was no humanity behind. They were just like. It was like a dogfight that they were betting on, essentially in the hunger games. They weren't children but Peter, I think more than anyone, really reminded them that these are human beings and provoked this outrage that I think ultimately, you know, it seems like a stupid thing for them to be outraged at the hunger games, these stupid people in the capital. But in the end you need that public opinion of you know. You need that on your side to win a war.
Speaker 1:You know what? I'm just realizing that Susan Collins is a genius, because and I want to talk about this too when we get to battle the songbirds and snakes, but, she made a little bit of like social political commentary with that move because she showed the fact that there's this whole population of like rich elites who don't care about children but do care about unborn babies.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Tea. Right, that is the tea.
Speaker 2:And that is what outrages them, not the 12 year olds, you know, being reprimanded, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's another thing. It's just she puts a lot. I think that's one of the really cool things that we talked about a little bit in our dystopian episode is that authors have a way to make commentary about the world we live in by putting it in a fake world. We can't talk about it in our world because that's just too controversial, but if we just dress it up a little bit or put it in the near future, we can discuss wealth and equality because it's not so close to home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's kind of over exaggerated in a way where, yeah, it doesn't feel personal, it's like, well, these, this is obviously wrong, but maybe if it's more subtle, you know, you don't think about it as much. So I think that's really. Yeah, like you said, the whole dystopian genre kind of does this a?
Speaker 1:lot of times.
Speaker 2:There is like this political aspect of it, or social commentary that gets infused into it by the nature of the genre.
Speaker 1:So by the time we get to book three, katniss has been rescued by district 13, which she thought was destroyed, and Peta's taken to the capital. He's hijacked and his memories are changed so that he's like turned to like a killing machine for Katniss, yeah, and basically he's culminates in like a war. Snow is eventually defeated, katniss and Peta find their way back to each other through lots of twists and turns and hijinks, and Gail is a work criminal, exactly.
Speaker 2:This book is so sad, by the way, it is such a sad book because, you know, katniss really love Peta but he never honestly got to know that. And then his memories are hijacked and then he hates her, he tries to kill her on multiple occasions and she is stuck of like, well, I love him and he's gone, you know, and he's trapped in the capital for a while. I don't know, it's just so sad.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously, finnick and Annie just the most devastating story that you could ever imagine. And, joanna, she's sad, so it's a really sad book. I'm laughing, but it's really devastating. Yeah, he's like very sad.
Speaker 1:Prim Dice Was like a little, a little kernel of hope at the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, basically it ends on a somewhat positive note and honestly.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is depressing I think that's true to life that there are a lot of horrible, devastating things to happen and then there is really just like a kernel of hope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially in war, obviously, Like I think it wouldn't be realistic. I mean, a lot of people die. Finnick dies, prim dies. You know there's a lot of death in this book and so I think that's realistic. To to the war, just a war in general, like people die, and it wouldn't be. It's devastating and you're always sad, but you know that is real. So what do you think about the ending of Book Three where she chooses to kill the rebellion president, whatever it?
Speaker 1:is oh, right yeah, so President coin.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It basically at the end. Yeah so President coin is like let's, let's do a hunger games to reap the capital's children.
Speaker 2:One last hunger games.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with only capital children and she's like, and I'll just be the interim president, you know until okay, and so Katniss is like sure, but if I get to kill snow? As she goes out to kill snow but actually she aims her arrow higher and kills coin, yeah, I thought that was another brilliant moment, yeah, yeah, where it was like Katniss wasn't just against coin, it wasn't just against snow, yeah, she was against dictatorship. Yeah, and this whole system of government. I think that was a brilliant choice.
Speaker 2:I fully agree. It was so surprising when I read it in the books I feel like I remember having to reread it a couple times to be like what just?
Speaker 1:happened. I will say that the unsatisfying thing for me is that we never besides like a tiny little page at the end. That's like an epilogue that shows Pita and Katniss, and like their kids, being happy. Yeah, it kills me that we don't get to see them be happy more.
Speaker 2:Like we don't get to see the healing part I would have liked that as a prequel, sequel way more, or like a little novella that like, yeah, novella would be perfect.
Speaker 1:Just like a little addendum Like that would be great. I don't know if that's really up her alley. Like to write something that's just kind of happy but. I would love to just see like a little novella about how they re-built their lives so we can finally get Pita and Katniss being happy together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we never do get that. It's very, which I guess this makes sense. But yeah, it would have been nice after all this trauma. I mean, again, mockingjay is very sad book so I would have liked a little, you know, maybe just show a little more of how they came back together and you know more than just a couple pages, like you said. But overall very happy with the ending. Always Team Pita and every Team Gale sucks on every level.
Speaker 2:I love these books. I again I vividly remember reading them and even more segueing to talk about the movies. I read these books really in middle school, but then the movies started coming out, kind of like high school college and that was so fun because so many years to enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Yes and yeah, your friends, you know, got to grow up like people who had grown up with the books as well. You know, by the time, I mean, I think I think Mockingjay part one came out when I was in college. I don't know if it was part two or part one.
Speaker 1:No one of them came out in college.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I just remember that like kind of dressing up with some friends and going to the. It wasn't midnight premieres anymore, because they don't do that, but the night before premiering, like the Thursday night, and I just remember that being such a fun time. So I thought that was great, like I got to read them, and then, as I got older, the movies came out. So you know. I know, sometimes you want that immediate movie adaptation.
Speaker 1:but I don't know what this, the delay was kind of fun, it's like you know grow up yeah, we had so many years to enjoy it, yeah and also just the cultural impact it had on being like a 19 year old girl when these movies were coming out was crazy. The braids yeah. The combat boots, the three finger thing yeah. My freshman year Dorm Wars team did Hunger Games as our theme we won.
Speaker 1:It was lit, yeah, and we had, like we did this intro dance to our college. We had this thing where the dorms compete and this, like it's actually really fun. It was really fun. That's like field day kind of thing and you do like an opening. It's like an opening ceremony is like the Olympics, and we did like this intro song and we did a girl on fire by Alicia Keys yeah, into. So it started with that and then it went into light them up, up, up, light them up. And then at the end our sponsor, like our faculty sponsor, came out and then like did the three finger thing. And then there was this like whistle I can't whistle, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like yeah, and then all of us were like going to?
Speaker 1:circle it and we fell down on the ground. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I have chills.
Speaker 1:It was literally the best night of my college experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my first year our theme was Divergent and we also won, so there's something to that. Anyways, it was great though. It was a time it was a definite time to be alive. I mean Jennifer Lawrence. Her interviews were everywhere. The 2010s, people were dressing like her so hard.
Speaker 1:We were wearing business casual, we were doing a full beat of makeup, we were doing completely matte skin, we were just.
Speaker 2:We were on Tumblr still, and so was the Hunger Games.
Speaker 1:We were just. Nothing could stop us from wearing our tweed blazers. We were killing it.
Speaker 2:I loved it, I loved it, I really loved it.
Speaker 1:All right, so these are the great.
Speaker 2:What I'll say about the movies before we move on? These are the gold standard movie adaptations. I don't know if we said that I think we did in our book to movie episode, which you can still check out with Zach, but these, to me, are the ultimate book adaptations. I mean, they are so good. I think, even if you don't read the books, these are great movies. And like they're so good, yeah, there's nothing that compares.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting because you can totally see the budget increase from movie to movie too.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, for sure. For sure, but so they're very, very well done, and I thought that this is this is what you want when you hear your books getting adapted, a book you love. This is this is what you hope for. Is the Hunger Games? Yeah, not the diverge, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, all right, let's talk about ballad of song worth instincts. So I'll kick us off.
Speaker 2:Kick us off.
Speaker 1:This is a prequel to the Hunger Games, which we just established is about a dystopia. This was released in May of 2020, which look. Nobody could have foreseen the pandemic happening when they said the book release. But what an unfortunate time to release a book about a dystopian society.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of like how the Station 11 TV show came out in mid 2020. Okay, it's a great show, by the way, a great adaptation, but a tough time to talk about a global pandemic you know it's not what people want at that time, Especially like a flu pandemic yeah. Oh yeah, it's tough. But, you can't blame Suzanne for the timing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whatever. So this is a prequel about Coriolanus Snow, who was known in the books as President Snow before he becomes the president in, like the early Hunger Games era. So he was a teenage boy who has survived the war and his family has actually suffered a lot of financial losses from the war in the capital. Yes, so he needs. So he's not able to go to university, but he has these like like, think, think. Like really ambit, think like Kevin McCarthy. He's like he's living to be a politician and like that's what he cares about most of all is to have influence not really to make change.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So like that's his question life, but he doesn't have money to go to a university, so he's like at his private school he's trying to hide the fact that he's poor.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And they are having like I think it's like the 15th Hunger Games.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty early.
Speaker 1:It's early in the hunger game, so this is kind of discussing, like some, some like lore of the hunger game. So they started and it wasn't televised. There wasn't, like the specialty, built environments and arenas. It was literally just like a sports arena. They gave people weapons and then it was over in like an hour. Yeah, so they are changing it up, they're televising it and they're pairing up the the tributes from the different districts, with students from the school as mentors, and the mentor whose tribute wins Wins this big cash prize and his plan is to use that to attend university. Yes, so, emily, who does he get paired up with as a mentor?
Speaker 2:But who else? Of course the district 12 female, lucy, who is. She is from district 12, but not really. She's kind of part of a traveling Song group called the Covey. They vary Appalachian vibes from them like a bluegrass band that traveled but they happen to be in in the district 12 area, kind of when the war ended. So that's how she became a part of district 12, but she's not like your typical cool minor and she's wearing makeup when she's reaped, which is kind of unusual, and she sings a song at the reaping. She maybe kills someone with the snake or heavily poisons them, unclear why at that time. And then, yeah, of course he got the district 12 female, obviously, because what else?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know he's really keen on her somehow winning. He feels like I'm kind of disappointed.
Speaker 2:I got the district 12 girl yes, like, how am I gonna? Win with her Right like district 12 is not a strong district, girls aren't strong. But then she kind of add some spice so he's like maybe yeah, like she Well.
Speaker 1:so this kind of key Notices that she's really good with like showmanship, yeah, and wants to use that. He's like one of the first people in this like world to try and use that to his advantage, not just to bolster, like her physical stats, but her personality, yes, and Trying to build a following around who she is and like how she can perform right and he also is the person who, as a class assignment some, eventually comes up with the idea that Candidates or competitors, I guess in the Hunger Games, can be sponsored and people can place bets on them.
Speaker 1:So this is the first time?
Speaker 2:Yes, he's like okay, well, at the very least I can get a lot of sponsors, get a lot of attention. Maybe she's not gonna win, but I can kind of raise my status and make a name for myself with her by using her.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, so like in the interim period, while they're doing like the press interviews and they're kind of being held before the games actually start, he like sneaks her some food. Yeah, kind of helps her like cheat a little bit. I love sorry he gives her like this like compact, like a, if she ends up putting like sneaking rat poison into the arena with yeah. And they kind of like develop this like kind of romance, like it's kind of like this weird vibe of like do they like each other?
Speaker 2:Yeah, or are they mutually using each other or is there actual feelings? That's, yeah, the weird part. I would have what I was gonna say and I have to send my discussion notes later, but I I really would have preferred versus some of this book, I would have preferred more information on how the Hunger Games went from this to what they are by the time Katniss competes, because in this version they are stuffed in a zoo. There's really rats trying to eat them in this zoo. They are not fed, they're not given, and it's really a fluke that they even like before they had mentors. They would just send them straight to the games immediately after reaping and not keep them at all. So I'm just curious. Obviously, you see the roots of how it develops here, where they're trying to get more viewers. They want people to be more invested. But how did it go from this where they feel like they don't even deserve you know, a bed like hot to Work Katniss experiences where they're putting them up in like a super nice accommodations feeding?
Speaker 2:Yeah various foods, the makeup, the costumes, like.
Speaker 1:I would have almost preferred to learn more about that lore then, yeah, my interpretation of that was like, because Snow is like learning how to make this into really like a television show he realizes that like it's not so fun whenever the tributes come in and they're already half starved. Oh, absolutely, you know so I think it was breadcrumbs, a little bit that way, but though they didn't spend it, it is. That's only showing that like progression.
Speaker 2:Well, also in this, before the games even start, half the tributes are killed through. There's a bombing, some of them, there's other accidents where they end up dying, and so I do think that that probably makes sense too. Like it doesn't, no one wants to see them dead before they even get to the arena, you know. So you can kind of fatten them up, clean them up, make them beautiful, make them compelling, and then people will want to tune in more.
Speaker 1:So it makes sense.
Speaker 2:It was just kind of wow, such a stark Difference between then and what it is. By the time, katniss is there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so by the time Lucy gets into the arena, some different things happen. Honestly, I don't. The book doesn't spend that much time in the arena.
Speaker 2:No very.
Speaker 1:Does help her cheat a little bit. There's like, because some of his professors are like kind of the game makers, at this point in the history of Pan Am there's like these snakes that they're gonna unleash into the Arena and he learns that like if they know your scent they won't go at you. So like he puts an item that she's touched into that thing with the snakes.
Speaker 1:So this makes an attacker when they get in. Also at this time, this one of his classmates so John is, I think that's how you say his name yeah, he Also kind of cheats and breaks in to To help with something during the games.
Speaker 2:So so John is is originally from district two and his family Kind of paid their way into the capital and so, yeah, a lot of like empathy for like me, lenny.
Speaker 1:Yes very so they both kind of after. So Lucy wins, but yes, then after the, the Hunger Games, they both get in trouble because they figured out what they did to help, yes, so so John is and Coriolanus now are both sent. They're both made to enroll in the peacekeepers the army and sent to district 12. This is where it lost me for good.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I'm really sorry again if you like this book, but and I'm sorry to Suzanne Collins first of all I think I am just wasn't in a initially. That's it at all, because I Don't want to read about someone I don't want to root for, and I'm not rooting for a Guy who I know later becomes some kind of sociopath, and so I I and Lucy wasn't strong enough to yes, that was so weird too.
Speaker 2:Like I don't know there was yeah, there was nothing. Lucy wasn't really developed at all. Their romance wasn't developed at all. So that's what I was kind of expecting going into it. I had an open mind. I expected it to be way more on the romance side, that they would kind of fall in love, maybe something would happen to her and he would turn evil kind of as a result, and then that explains why he, you know, had kind of this weird thing with Katniss, or like she really got under his skin because she's also the girl from district 12. That's what I was expecting.
Speaker 2:Obviously there's elements of that in here, but none of it was like strong enough and there was so much time spent on Things that I didn't care about. There was just so much. This is again. This is to me, this is the Midnight Sun Paradox, which is, once you are so successful, people aren't editing you. And if this book had been edited I think down a little bit I might have liked it more. But there was just so much in here that Wasn't interesting to me and I didn't root for the main character and I didn't root for the you know, the Lucy great character. I didn't root for the romance I had nothing to like hold on to, and then, out of nowhere, with no lead-up that this is even an option they're sent to district 12 to be peacekeepers in like the last, like the pacing was all over the place. To me, I don't know. To me, yeah, this is again a Midnight Sun paradox where you are so successful that people then stop editing you as hard, and this is what you get.
Speaker 1:In my opinion, so, yeah, I agree with that. I think what she was trying to do when she sent them to district 12 was a couple things one, two kind of Breadcrumbs, some of the things that will show up later in the actual Hunger Games books, like some of the foundation of district 12, but also to maybe ask make you ask some big questions about about president snow, like Watching on his I think it's just more of like a commentary of like this person who had the opportunity to do good and be right but made choices over and over again that are wrong and lead him towards evil, yeah, like this time in district 12 is basically setting him up to make choices about who he's going to be, and I think that's basically what she was probably just trying to say with this book. Like my interpretation is like hey, you get to choose if you're a good person or a bad person.
Speaker 2:And it's not. I don't think it's like poorly written and I see why people like it. I guess it's just for me. I have to have something To root for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and or I would have preferred more, more lore about the Hunger Games, because to me it was like you can't, I don't know. I would have preferred either. Or either I'm actually rooting for someone or at least I don't know, care about someone in some way, or just make this pure fan service and give me all the you know lore behind everything and yeah, it didn't really do either.
Speaker 1:You know, it makes me think about a show that we both love succession. Yes, how there is literally no one to root for every single person is bad, Um, but what you're rooting for is their demise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and somehow you still actually do care about them, like you, still at the end, even though you know At the end this is spoilers for succession, so skip ahead a few seconds if you don't want to hear it. But at the very last episode, when Kendall's sitting there and you think he might kill himself, you're devastated actually, even though you know he's a bad person. And that's what I think is very difficult to do, and I don't think that personally. For me, susan accomplished that because, um, I think, even though you are rooting for the demise of everyone in succession, but on the same token, you also kind of care about them a lot you know, or like it's like you're rooting for the demise of their empire, yes, but you're hoping that they will be um.
Speaker 2:Like okay, yeah, or they'll figure out how you know.
Speaker 1:You know, yes, and I think that's what maybe she was trying to do with President snow. I mean, the problem is, you know how the story ends. I think that's part of it. For sure, you're rooting for the demise of the empire, but With any good anti-hero, you want to see them Make better choices and be a better person.
Speaker 2:You know who's. A great example too of this is like Thanos from the Avengers, because there's sometimes when you're watching the Avengers we're like, okay, maybe he has a point, like humanity is destroying himself, and then you're like, okay, no, he could just double the resources, he doesn't have to kill half the population. But he's so well articulated that you kind of like, maybe he has a point. So I just felt like none of that was there to me with Corleone, corleone, corleonus, corleonus, corleonus. Yeah.
Speaker 2:With president, snow, I didn't. There's nothing to me that was like interesting about him for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the choices that he makes, we learn about his, his proclivity for poisons and how he, you know, ended up poisoning some of the people who put him in the place that he was. You know we won't go through all of it, but we learn about. You know he has the opportunity, like his friend sojanez has this plan to like escape, but but he ends up recording him with a jabber jay and then ratting him out to their superiors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which, and at the whole time sojanez, isn't really his friend either, you know so yeah he's more just like his peer. It's kind of like maybe he's my friend, maybe he's not. We're kind of forced together by circumstances, but I'm still better than him. He's from the districts you know Totally, so that's definitely there and his betrayal of his peer ends up getting him Well.
Speaker 1:He ends up dying. And then Coriolenas gets to go back to the capital and go to school. He we learn a little bit about how Mockingjay's were made. We learn about there are some pretty. I don't have that book anymore, I borrowed it from Libby. But I remember in the discussion of Jabberjays and Mockingbirds and the creation of Mockingjay's that there was some pretty, like it was pretty heavy handed. There was pretty. There's some pretty heavy handed like allusions to like Mockingjay's are so bad and like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I freaking hate Mockingjay's. And then the same with the hanging tree song, because, oh my gosh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a guy's getting hanged and he like sings the song.
Speaker 2:The hanging tree. They say that, and then they're like he's like, oh, they said he murdered three people. I'm like, oh my God. And then Lucy Gray writes the song are you? Which is a great song, but it was just so. Oh yeah, it was so to me very, this part. This is why I was lost in the District 12. It started to become like it's like the whole book, no fan service whatsoever. And then all of a sudden he's in District 12 and she's trying to like cram all this fan service in there and it just felt almost drawing. She's like we're in this place called the hob this is where the locals hang out after you know, and it was just kind of not.
Speaker 1:It kind of just felt like what's the plot right now, Like what's happening, what are we doing?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. I know actually I realize I'm the minority on this A lot of people really like this book.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that this is a book, I think, for me where, like, did I think it was great? No, did I, as a fan of the Hunger Games, find it interesting? Yeah, yeah. I thought it was interesting and I'll watch the movie probably, you know, probably will maybe when it comes out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm nervous about the movie. Honestly. It's not looking good for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. So I think the thing is, though, this sets him up with the book and where he's rescued. Oh, we skipped something really important. So he plans to run away with Lucy Gray.
Speaker 2:This is like his big moment of success.
Speaker 1:Yes, climate, is he going to run away with Lucy, like leave it all behind, like live a life of peace and harmony, or what? So he? He actually does like go with Lucy, they're going to run away. And he's like wait, man, camping is hard, this sucks, I hate nature. And so he's like so he's just like I'm actually going to like head out, and she ends up setting a trap for him. So this actually was the interesting thing to me, which I don't think was honestly earned enough. Yeah, but I thought I wish we had had more of this, maybe some chapters in her perspective, or something like that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that would have been helpful.
Speaker 1:She is kind of like you're left with this question at the end. Was Lucy using Coriolanus the whole?
Speaker 2:time. Yes, it's very unclear.
Speaker 1:Was she stringing him along? Because at the end, she sets a trap for him where he, like, is bitten by a snake, a poisonous snake, and he ends up getting like airlifted, yeah, and rescued and taken back to the Capitol. So did she have feelings for him? Did she care about him? Did she love him?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I think that would be really cool if we had had some chapters from her POV. That would have made it more interesting.
Speaker 2:I would have loved that, especially also during the arena scenes, which were painfully boring to read in my book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, because it was just like not that much was happening in those days. Not a lot was televised, so there was so much of like I don't know where is she, oh well, okay, Anyways, I'm really hungry, Let me go eat some of this buffet. But I would have liked that because I think, or I don't know, I just felt like there wasn't really anything in the book that gave any signs either way of how she actually felt. Like to me. She was such a flat character that she didn't. It was so, yeah, it was very unclear of. Honestly, it was unclear too from like to me. It was unclear for both sides whether there was any real feelings or if it was both using each other and not in a good way. Like I would have liked a little more. It's okay to be ambiguous about it, I think, but I don't know it was too ambiguous.
Speaker 2:Maybe the movie will extrapolate that a little bit. I would love that. If it does, I would love it. I imagine the movie will play up the romance a lot more. That would be my guess, which I would also be fine with, because I just felt like I don't know that it's served a true purpose. I feel like you can almost tell the same story without them having any feelings for each other, and it wouldn't really change anything. Like they could have just been friends who were kind of unlikely allies, and then they turned on each other. You know that could have been the same plot. I don't feel that the romance added anything, so I kind of would like for them to.
Speaker 1:I think maybe the romance she was trying to build sympathy or like feelings of conflict for snow, but I don't know if that really worked.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I was trying to say earlier is I would have liked if he was genuinely in love with her and then made the choice to betray her anyways, or whatever, or she turns on him at the end. But you felt like, oh, he genuinely loved her and this was kind of part of the. He was maybe already making some questionable choices, but maybe this is the thing that turns him into who we later know as snow versus. It just didn't feel like what is it felt so questionable? Yeah, I think I would have liked it more if it was an earnest romance on his part and maybe hers was more ambiguous. But that's just me critiquing. Who am I? I've never written a novel, so who am I to say? But anyways, I love the hunger games. I did. I didn't hate this book, I just compared to the hunger games. Obviously, I didn't love it as much.
Speaker 1:I think it's good at provoking questions.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like these kind of. You know, the evil leaders of history are like president. Snow is modeled after so many of them. He's this charismatic in the original trilogy. He's this charismatic guy. Obviously he's got like a lot of these wealthy people behind him.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Like he is representative of the whole thing. It's his brand, yes, so it asks some big questions about like is anyone really just pure evil? Sure, there, I think, are nuance with her heroes and the villains in the story. There are times when Katniss is so infuriating because she's so single minded and she is so stubborn and you want her to work with other people or you want her to consult others and not be so reckless, like. There are times when she is not a perfect hero oh, absolutely. And there are times in this book, in the prequel, where snow isn't a perfect villain because, he's humanized.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, you know what I want to Santa right, genuinely, and I think would be way better is I would love to read more about Tigris and what happens to her and how she reacts to all this, and I thought it was very weird and interesting that they were cousins, which is not revealed in the original Hogger games, so I would really like to hear her story hurt Like I felt like she was such an interesting character.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, I would love to.
Speaker 2:If we want to continue this universe. I think she would be a really good one too. Maybe pick up like maybe she could write what happens next. How does snow go from here? And from her perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that would be really cool.
Speaker 2:What happens to Lucy Gray in the end? Oh, she not?
Speaker 1:know, she just gets free.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what's up with? Like what happened to her? Where is she in the future world?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I would like some answers. You know what? That's a good question because I think like remember, at the beginning of the Hunger Games, katniss and Gale are like should we just like, run away like? To like the wilds, like, and they wonder, like could you survive out there? Maybe Lucy Gray has just been surviving out there.
Speaker 2:Lucy's fate is ambiguous. We don't know if she was shot and killed or managed to escape in the end. So she went off into the woods. She became like a ghost. He wiped her archives.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I guess because also in the Hunger Games she said there were two only ever two winners from District 12. So she's implied to be the other.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right, but they never show that Hunger Games.
Speaker 2:Yes, she's the other winner, so she is gone from the records, but they, I guess, know that she won Interesting. I would love to know what happened to her as well, like what I guess she probably died out there, you know, but maybe not.
Speaker 1:Who knows, interesting.
Speaker 2:Anything else I don't know, I know.
Speaker 2:Was there anything else that, like any, any other things that you wanted to pull out, or I would just really like to ask Suzanne and maybe she saw this in interviews and I just need to look it up I'm just curious why this was the story she chose to tell to stick in the Hunger Games world. I definitely understand why sticking with it makes sense from a financial perspective, but and maybe just from her ideas but I would just be curious to know why this was a story, why this specific point in Snow's life, you know?
Speaker 1:when she could have chosen. No, here's what I would have liked better she could have chosen Hamish's games. I would have loved that. Or Hamish as a teenager, yes, or something like that, like one generation before, because Hamish is a really complex character.
Speaker 2:It's not perfectly great and maybe things are kind of fascinating like he outsmarted them all essentially so.
Speaker 1:I mean, and it's like, yeah, we know how it ends, but we also know how the story ends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I kind of would have preferred that because and I think, a more Nearer this is so removed from the hungry games world we know. I mean it's so it's like immediately post-war and there's no, you know, yeah, so I would have preferred, maybe closer to the world we know, to be more rooted again. There's so many questions of like, how did you get from there to there? And not, you know, maybe in like one generation, you know, I mean snow's kind of old by the time we get to the book. So maybe what? 50 years or something, but it's not. You know, that's not that long of a time for it to change so drastically. I Would just be curious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or like it could have been a cool thing where she did, like you know, snow, middle-aged and he has a kid and yeah, it is asking questions about what?
Speaker 2:I would have honestly preferred. I'm sorry, I interrupted you but no, no.
Speaker 2:I would have preferred a longer period of snow's life because this, to me, was just so Some of the details did not need to be talked about for so long. You could have told this whole story and then even gone a little further, like I was almost hoping for some kind of epilogue in this of connecting the dots to the snow. We eventually know. I just feel like it ends and there's still so much time, and maybe she has plans to continue to write in this perspective. I don't know, but yeah, I would love to know like what her thought process was, how she got to this point, and you know she plans to write anything else in this world. I guess you know we'll see Suzanne come on the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, susie, come on the pod. All right that's been our conversation on. Hunger Games. Thank you for listening and I love the original trilogy so much and also shout out to Pita's games by Igsy Grace.
Speaker 1:Oh, the ultimate fiction.
Speaker 2:The Pita's version of cannon on this podcast. That's cannon and it'll change your life. So go read that. If you haven't, okay. Do you want to share a book you've read lately?
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, I read the latest installment in the Thursday murder club series the last double to die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that I have talked the series to death on here and I'm also aware that if you haven't read the series you're not gonna just jump to this book, but I have to talk about it because it has, honestly like, since I finished it it's just really been. I Just haven't gotten over it. As a reminder, thursday murder club series I'm like tearing up. The Thursday murder club series is a humorous mystery series about a group of British retirees, or pensioners as they call them yes, who live in like a retirement community, who have a Thursday murder club where they solve mysteries and solve crimes, led by their fear of the Elizabeth who is a former in my sixth agent.
Speaker 1:Um, also, there is a lot of humor. It's hilarious. There is a lot of heart. It discusses the realities of aging and what it's like to be towards the end of your life and being a person Having adult children yeah, like having romance, having friendships, learning new things, trying like as someone who's in their 70s or 80s. It is. It's amazing how Richard Osman is able to articulate so much feeling about getting older as someone who's not in the 70s or 80s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's incredible and when I'm telling you it'll make you laugh out loud and that the mysteries and the twists and turns are so well thought out. Very good, there is great romance, like it has everything, and in the most recent installment I was cooking, so I Was cooking and listening to the audiobook. So I read this on Kindle and listened on audio. I alternated Um and I was cooking and cutting um vegetables.
Speaker 1:Oh and I had to stop Because I was a danger to myself because I was crying so hard. Yeah, I was like the like, the Like, wailing, moaning, cry, yeah it was. It got me, dude? Yeah, it got me. I'm scared.
Speaker 2:And I need you to listen to that.
Speaker 1:I need you to read this freaking book I highly. For those who like audiobooks, I think the narration on this series is really, really good, so I have you know, something I commonly do is do a combo of the uh. I borrow both the E-book and audiobook version.
Speaker 2:I love doing that, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I did a little bit of both with the series. Um but it is a great narrator. Um so highly, highly recommend reading the series and highly recommend the latest installment of the last episode today.
Speaker 2:Okay, you got me. I still haven't even read the second book in the series. To combust for these readers, I have it sitting next to my bed the bullet, the mist.
Speaker 1:you haven't read, for that one. Yes, correct, oh my gosh, it's catching up to do.
Speaker 2:I know I've only read the first one. Basically, is what I'm trying to say. So, um, but I do own it. So I'm on my way, but I need to catch up. Um, okay, my most recent book was by an author we both recently read and loved, jillian mcallister. So I had an extra audible credit because I got a free trial. Um, because I wanted to not pay for the counting the cost book, and so this is my other free credit and, um, it is just another missing person. Okay, I have that on hold. Okay.
Speaker 1:I think you like it. It's not. Don't spoil it too much for me, so okay.
Speaker 2:I would say it's a little under um, wrong place, wrong time for me, but very similar vibes, very similar vibes. Um. So the this book follows the main character. There's kind of three main characters, but the main main character is julia and she is, uh, an officer in UK, britain. Wherever she lives, they're British. And so, um, she's a police officer and a year prior to the start of this book her daughter was with her and she. They were in a like a parking garage and her, um, she kind of went to grab something back from the car and and at the same time her daughter was mugged and she swung her keys. You know how your tie is a woman to put your keys between your hands. She swung that at the sky, cut him in the artery on his neck. They leave him bleeding out. They do call for help from like a payphone, but didn't you know, pretend they weren't there. He ends up actually surviving and then dies three days later of sepsis from the wound.
Speaker 2:And, um, julia essentially uses her. So if you're inclined to not trust the police, this would add fuel to that fire, because she uses her police powers to like, erase the tape. She chooses not to investigate this case. You know, she's like the lead investigator. She doesn't really pursue any leads. She kind of like half-heartedly interviews some people he knew or whatever, and the case goes cold and her daughter is never found out. One year later, um, some, a woman goes missing named Olivia. In her area she's trying to track down who. You know what happened her and someone Comes into her car at night and says if you don't frame this guy For the murder of this woman who's gone missing, I will tell everyone what happened with your daughter and what you did to cover it up. So that's how it starts is. Basically, julia is being blackmailed to Arrest and convict someone of a murder for a missing person, when she doesn't have a body, she doesn't have any leads, she's being required to plant evidence and so, um, it's kind of like she's trying to find out what happened before.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that sounds too late. It's really good.
Speaker 2:It's, uh, what I really liked, did like about this book is it also is kind of like the three main characters are all parents of different people in the story. Yeah, that sounds. That sounds like Julia McAlister. It's, yes, very much like wrong place, wrong time. It's really about that parent-child relationship. How far would you go for your children, like what? What would you do for your?
Speaker 2:to protect your child. Um, so that's kind of like the main theme. I think it's a little under wrong place, wrong time, because I don't always love a cop main character, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, that kind of takes away from it and you're like, can I really root for you Because you definitely caught up this murder, murder, you know? Other than that, I thought the writing was really good. It's similar thing where there's a huge twist that I did kind of figure out early on, but it's revealed like halfway through and so then there's so much more left. It's a very similar thing to wrong place, wrong time, where there's even more twists that um unfold. So, yeah, I really like her. I think she's going to be a new author. I'm going to try to go read some more of her back catalog because I really enjoy her writing style and the characters that she really develops and the relationships between them.
Speaker 1:So I love that it's wait whenever you said that. Well, first of all, that sounds really great.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited for it to come off hold and read yes um, I also have to tell you that I saw today when I was like I was, I went to amazon to pre-order britney spears book the woman and me, which we will be recapping absolutely, and I saw that there is a book that has a february 6 2024 release date by christin hannah, called the women oh, and the audiobook narration is by julia waylon, who is the person who narrates all of tail jingett's reads books. She's an she is an amazing, really good audiobook narrator. Yes, I am obsessed with her. Um, but this is uh set during the vietnam war and talks about the women fighting in the war.
Speaker 2:And like the I know it is okay, that sounds good.
Speaker 1:So fire, that sounds really good. I'm so excited. Um, so, anyways, cannot wait for that and similar thing like that lens of women, women's forgotten history. Yes, um, just I can't wait. I was so excited.
Speaker 2:Well, um, speaking of that, Uh, thank you for the tuning in today. Our next episode that will be released will be our britney spears memoir recaps, so that comes out the 24th. Our episode recap on it will come out on halloween, the 31st. So if you want to read along, go ahead and pre-order that book. Otherwise, you know, as always, we'll be recapping here and you can just listen to that if you don't want to.
Speaker 1:Hey, conservatorships are scary, very boo.
Speaker 2:Happy going spooky but we had to do it so obviously All right.
Speaker 1:We'll see you guys then. Bye, Bye.