The Readirect Podcast
Book Club: Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret by Judy Blume
We're on a holiday break, but we're re-releasing one of our favorite bonus episodes, all about Judy Blume's cherished novel, "Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret."
Having both missed out on this gem in our tween years, we unpack the novel's continued relevance. This deep dive sheds light on the book's educational value in navigating the roaring tides of puberty, the quest for religious identity, and the tug-of-war of familial relationships.
We feel this movie adaptation is a perfect movie to watch over the holidays with family of all ages. It's truly an all-time great adaptation.
Enjoy this re-released episode, and we'll be back with more content in two weeks! Merry Christmas & happy holidays!
We're on a holiday break, but we're re-releasing one of our favorite bonus episodes, all about Judy Blume's cherished novel, "Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret."
Having both missed out on this gem in our tween years, we unpack the novel's continued relevance. This deep dive sheds light on the book's educational value in navigating the roaring tides of puberty, the quest for religious identity, and the tug-of-war of familial relationships.
We feel this movie adaptation is a perfect movie to watch over the holidays with family of all ages. It's truly an all-time great adaptation.
Enjoy this re-released episode, and we'll be back with more content in two weeks! Merry Christmas & happy holidays!
Welcome to the redirect podcast. My name is Aladio Canas.
Speaker 2:And I'm Emily Rojas. The redirect podcast is a show where we shift the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite fictional books and how those themes show up in real lived experiences On today's episode we're discussing the multi-generational favorite.
Speaker 1:Are you there, god? It's me Margaret.
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Speaker 2:Yes, and here we are, on a surprise week where you weren't expecting us, for our first bonus episode. So hello.
Speaker 1:It is our first bonus episode because the movie Are you there, god, it's Me, margaret is coming out this week on the 28th I think and we thought that was a really great opportunity to discuss it before it comes out, and just because it's fun.
Speaker 2:And there's so much to talk about. So yeah, there is a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1:So just to set the scene, are you there, god? It's Me. Margaret is a middle grades book written by Judy Bloom. The main character of the book is Margaret Simon. She's an 11 year old girl in 1970, whose family moves from New York City to suburban New Jersey. Her parents have an interfaith marriage, which is probably a bigger deal in 1970 than it is now. But this causes a lot of like questions and kind of like just it impacts the way that she sees the world. And so we follow Margaret's sixth grade year as she navigates all of this the adult problems that are going on around her, the social pressures of being a sixth grader and her like on this journey of this journey to discover religion.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's right, yeah, yeah, like she. She obviously, based on the title, she prays to God like a God, but she's kind of like I have no religion and her parents don't even really believe in God, it seems like. But she does. So she's kind of trying to figure out am I Jewish, am I Christian? Like what am I? Where's God going to be for me? But she still does continue to pray throughout the whole book, which I thought was really interesting.
Speaker 1:Is God there and nobody knows she's praying. No one's told her to pray, yeah, but I just okay. So let's step back really quick. Yeah, Emily, what is your relationship to this book? I don't think either one of us read it as kids.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't like read it as a kid. I think I read, I read, definitely read other Judy bloom books, but not this one. I think I remember like seeing it a lot at the library but I kind of thought, I think based on the title, I thought it was like maybe a religious book or I don't know. I remember thinking it looked like boring or something. So I never read it as a kid. So my first experience with it was this week when I read it for the first time.
Speaker 1:So what about you? I also did not read it as a kid, but I think it was actually, and I don't know.
Speaker 1:Maybe I am just imagining this, but you know, judy bloom has like some more adult books and then she has several children's books and for some reason I had this impression that there was something like bad about this book. Oh interesting, I don't know why, and I I don't think my parents told me that, I just think I don't know. I had this like it was wrong or I shouldn't read it or something like that. So I don't know, I never did, but what caused me to read it was actually my book club was like hey, does anyone want to go see an advanced screening of this movie, which is? I saw the movie this last week and I was like, oh yeah, sure, I'll go and let me just read the book really quick. And I was like, oh wow, I kind of really wish that I had read it.
Speaker 2:I know that's exactly how I felt when I read it to. I was like man. I wish I read this book when I was 12.
Speaker 1:So, so my 11 year old niece recently read this book. So in preparation for the episode, I called her, oh, and I was like, okay, paige, because she one time mentioned to me that she was going to read this book. And I was like, have you read, are you there, goddess Me, margaret? And she was like, yes, and I really, really liked it. And so I got a few talking points from her, the things that I said what did you like about the book? And she said she felt like she learned a lot about things she didn't know about yet, like puberty yes, she learned. She said I don't go to public school, but I learned about public school. She said she learned about parties, oh, yes, and she thought that was really interesting. And and I asked her if she could relate to the book, if she could relate to Margaret, and she said, yeah, I think I can relate to her in a few ways. So so it was actually really sweet getting to hear that from an 11 year old's perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I think one of the cool things about this book and why it's probably like such a multi generational favorite, yeah Is because there's things that you understand about it as an adult yes, that you would never pick up as a kid yeah, but there are things that when you read it as a kid like the things in Margaret's life like will she start her period, will she wear a bra? Yeah, I like a boy down the street those things seem like the biggest things, yes, but now when you read it as an adult, I would argue those aren't the biggest things that happen in the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I totally agree and I think this okay. And when I wanted to, when I read this book, I'm like this is the exact opposite of my experience with reading Little House on the Prairie, because obviously this book is also old and I didn't know like is there going to be some weird, you know outdated things in here or whatever. But to me this was like no, the experience of being a 12, you know, 11, 12 year old, sixth grade girl is so timeless and universal that, even though this book is set in 1970, to me, having been that age in the you know 2000s, it was exact I really didn't even necessarily realize that it was set in the 70s, because I'm like this is exactly what it was like, you know, and the things you're worried about and the conversations you have with your friends, like exactly the same, you know that's what makes it so timeless is like it's like the thing that unites us yes or at least all young women probably is like these are the stressors, you know and like and even even beyond.
Speaker 1:Just like, okay, going through puberty, you're navigating your first crush or whatever, like kind of sussing out, okay, is there tension between my parents and my grandparents? Is there weird political stuff between, like my mom and like the mom who lives a few houses down? Yes, like, those are things. That's what I'm saying. Like those are some of the things as an adult you can see clearly, yeah, but when you're a kid, you read it and you're like, yeah, that is confusing. Yeah, like what is going on? I don't know what's going on, but like, okay, yeah, so, yeah, it was just I'm I loved it, I know I. I mean sure it was still.
Speaker 1:It's a simplistic book. Oh, yeah, it's a middle-grades book, yes, but I was like there, this is really interesting. Yes, and there's a lot of good stuff in it. No, really, yes, so what do you think? Before we kind of move on, what do you think is like the general opinion of Judy bloom? Because, like, that's obviously a big thing. Oh, she's like very famous, yes, and because of that, people have lots of opinions about her. Did you grow up with an opinion about her, or what do you perceive I?
Speaker 2:don't think I really did grow up with that opinion of her. I would say I mean I did some googling for this episode so it kind of seems like proud, like to me the biggest like culture warfare of our age was like Harry Potter stuff. But I think maybe if we had been a little, if we were a little older like you know, we have older siblings who were grown up in like the 80s and 90s I Feel like they might have experienced more Cultural opinions about Judy bloom, because a lot of the stuff I found was like from the 80s when a lot of her books were being banned and there was a lot more controversy. So I don't think I think by the time we were getting there Maybe there wasn't as much Controversial opinions about her. So I don't remember having any bad opinions. Like I said, I read other books of hers, I think I. I remember picking this book up but just never reading it. So it wasn't like you can't read that book, you know so. But yeah, I do. I do feel like they're all based on my googles.
Speaker 2:There was definitely some people who felt like she was, you know, anti-christian and this book was inappropriate for young girls. But I just would say. I mean, I think maybe this is faded from opinions now, like we're a little more Understanding of the society. But if you feel like this book is inappropriate, again, these are the exact same conversations I was having with my friends at 11, like it is what kids are talking about, anyways, and I didn't find anything to be age and appropriate in this book. I don't, I don't know, what did you think or what was your vibe about Judy bloom?
Speaker 1:I I think, yeah, similar to you, I think some of her like more mature books. There's like discussion of like Sexual assaults and things like that. So maybe that's where some of the controversy came from. But also, I mean, I could imagine like a very kind of conservative religious parent feeling a type of way about this book, because, for the fact that Margaret is asking questions about God, yeah, and it isn't like this, like solid, immovable thing in her life you know what I'm saying yeah, she's wondering Okay, can I feel God in a synagogue? Can I feel God? That like?
Speaker 1:I had a methodist yeah or I mean she really just explores a few different denominations of Christianity.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But, but she's open, you know? Yeah, she's open.
Speaker 2:So I guess, yeah, I could see that, but to me I kind of thought, like that's dumb. Because that is dumb, because it's almost like the opposite, because she was raised without religion and then she wants to, like, be Religious. I would almost think like, hey, this is kind of a great review, you know, for finding God. Like she, her parents wanted her to choose her own faith as she grew up and and she still believed in God, anyway. So I don't know, I thought it was interesting. But yes, like I said, I did find that this book in particular was banned for the Discussions of like puberty and also.
Speaker 1:Oh for being anti-christ because to be fair.
Speaker 2:The Predominant Christian characters in this book are the worst. They are the worst.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the predominant Christian characters in this book are Margaret's maternal grandparents, who have been estranged from the family because Margaret's mother Barbara got married to a Jewish man and they thought that was reprehensible. Yes, so they end up in the course of the book like meeting Margaret for the first time and having dinner with them and Just being like extremely judgmental and, yes, the worst, really just terrible. But some of Margaret's friends are Christian. She goes to church with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, and they're not bad. It's just really the grandparents that are like yeah you guys suck.
Speaker 1:On the other hand, margaret's some Margaret's paternal grandmother she's very close with, yes, and there's a really funny dynamic because you know they move away from New York City where her paternal grandmother lives and Margaret's grandmother is just heartbroken about it, yeah, but also Kind of is a guilt-tripping her parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from moving, margaret away from her.
Speaker 1:Yes, so there's several discussions like this is what I'm talking about. You pick up as an adult, like, yes, where Margaret's, where Margaret's grandmother's. Like I think you should come into the city and go to a show with me, but tell your mom it was your idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, there's one scene too where right after they move, the grandmother just shows up at their house with like food, but completely unannounced. And I'm like, yeah, imagine, like that's awesome. If you're the kid, like, if you're Margaret, you're like, ah, grandma. But if you're the mom and you're like my mother-in-law just showed up at my house at like no matter, I am, no matter how much you love your mother-in-law like, like, yeah, I just like unannounced showing up anyone like you would be like uh, hello.
Speaker 1:And then Another moment where, so whenever Margaret does go on, like the weekend trip with her grandmother, she she asked her grandmother Um, you know, grandma, can I go to temple with you? Yeah, and her grandmother freaks out and she's like, of course, yes you're Jewish now yeah you know, and she they go to temple and she meets the rabbi and this whole thing, and it's like that is so classic, like a kid asking just like an innocent question yeah, religion, and then an adult projecting.
Speaker 2:Yes, much on it.
Speaker 1:Yes, like she's like, yeah, I want to check this out. Like a kid having basic curiosity about something and then Adults doing what we always do and like putting applying so much meaning to that and like Like making it weird and instead of just letting the kid be curious, yeah, like maybe just chill out a little bit.
Speaker 2:So right, um, were there any other moments that really stood out to you, where you like had a visceral reaction, or um, well, I hated, I hate it I mean skipping to, like the climax of the book the fact that the grandparents so the okay, the, the mom's parents basically get a Christmas card from her mom. Because she's feeling like whatever she said to mental. She sends a Christmas card and they're like you know, we really want to come meet you, meet, see you guys, and meet our granddaughter. Can we come stay with you this week? And they're like, okay, fine, we'll try to repatch this relationship, like that's nice.
Speaker 2:But it's the same week that Margaret was supposed to go visit her other grandma who actually loves her in florida, her real grandma, and she had this plane ticket. She had been dreaming of this because her grandma, I guess, moves to florida. She's gonna go visit her and, um, they make her cancel her trip, which I thought was wrong of the parents. That was wrong. Like they don't owe these other grandparents anything. In my opinion, they've chosen not to be a part of her life for 12 years, you know. And anyways, they cancel her trip. And then the grandparents come and they get all upset about something. And then they have caused this huge scene at dinner because they can't like, let it go that you know the religion thing and then they leave the next day. I was so Upset that made me like if I was margarine justice.
Speaker 1:I felt it, yeah, and that is like something, when you were that age. There are so many things in your life you do not have control over.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, control over almost nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean very little in your life. Yes, so to have this one thing taken away, it's kind of like how, like I saw, like the jimmy kimmo halloween candy thing, yes, it's like the reason it's such a big deal to the kids are the parents like fake, eat their candy? Is they have never earned anything in their life and they earned that candy that you know this is yes, this is something that only belongs to them. Yes, and then the parents just ate it. You know where they were. They leave them to believe, yeah, but like, exactly, that's that's what Margaret's going through. It's just like I have this one thing in my Freakin life yes, and everything at school is so hard and yes, and I have this one thing to look forward to and you just take it for me and I have no control. I can't say no, yes, I just have to do what you say. And that made me fill, fill up with a righteous anger.
Speaker 2:Like, yes, I was mad for Margaret that she could do with you, but then her grandma ends up showing up the next day and came to stay with them. So I thought that was really nice that she ended up coming to visit.
Speaker 1:And let me tell you, so in the movie Scott scouts, give me a hat. The movie grandma is Kathy Bates. Uh-huh, I saw that and she's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it is, she fits the role.
Speaker 1:For sure it Everyone in the movie just like makes this come alive and it's just amazing. But before we get there, I wanted to talk about some of the other events that happened and like can you relate to them? One that I particularly related to as a former 11-year-old girl, and it was like is this my life? Yeah, Because.
Speaker 1:So Margaret and her friends decided to form this super secret club, but one of the rules of the club is you have to wear a bra. Yes, but Margaret doesn't need a bra. Yeah, but she still asks just ask her mom because she has to wear a bra to be part of the club. Right? So she's sitting in bed and her mom's taking her in and she's like mom, I want to wear a bra. And her mom turns on and she's like oh, you think you need one or whatever. And then they go shopping for a bra and she gets like you know this little, it's called a grow bra, where it grows with you.
Speaker 1:Anyways, that is literally Sans the joining a club. Yeah, that's literally how I asked my mom if I could wear a bra. Oh, nice, I was like we were on vacation and I was like okay, I'm going to do this. And I was like mom, I want to wear a bra, yeah, and like you know, and she kind of little choked up or like taking it back, she's like, oh, okay, you know, whatever, and those are the things like she mentions that a little bit like with her mom's reaction. She doesn't get why her mom feels like choked up by that. Yeah, they're just. This is a book for adults too.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is. Well, it's just so interesting, you think. I mean like I feel like as a parent, you're constantly maybe I don't know, obviously neither of us are parents but I feel like there's like, like you want to try to be ahead of the like you know, but then you don't also want to think your kid is growing up. So you know, like she has a comment later of the girls are taken to go watch a movie about like your body changing and puberty and getting your period and all that. And she's like why do they wait till sixth grade when we already know everything? And it's like I think that's yeah, that's probably the constant thing as a parent, like you don't want to do things with your kid or talk to your kid before they're ready, but you also want to be ahead of it, like you know, like obviously Margaret didn't need a bra, so her mom's probably like, oh, she doesn't need a bra, but it's more about, like the mental thing, like she wanted to. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:That's a, it seems like such a hard balance. But how do you? You know time things appropriately, so you're not behind on what your kid wants or needs, but you're also not too far ahead of it either.
Speaker 1:The mother-daughter dynamics like all the way through. I mean Margaret's relationship with her mom, her mom's relationship with her mom and Margaret's mother's relationship with her mother-in-law. I mean, her dad is in this book, but he's really not very important, not really. This is a book about women. This is a book about, yeah, the complex relationships between different generations of women. In this essay, I will but there's a couple of other things I wanted to ask you so did you ever have a male teacher like in elementary school?
Speaker 2:I did not in elementary school and I didn't have any. I never had a male teacher until like you had multiple teachers. So like in this, she is in sixth grade but she still only has one teacher. So it is kind of like the elementary school thing. But, yeah, like I had male like teachers in middle school but it was, like you know, they just taught science or health or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I didn't either. But there were male teachers in my elementary school. Which fantastic. I love that, yeah. But I remember being a kid at elementary school being like, oh, I'm so glad I don't have a male teacher.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that makes me so freaked out and I don't know, and it's so because obviously she has a male teacher in this book.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he's also young, like he is his first teaching job out of college. So he's young and fresh and like doesn't really know what he's doing.
Speaker 1:Judy Bloom just put so many layers. Yes, but one of the questions on the first day of school is how do you feel about having a male teacher? Yeah, and it's like that is a real thing, like there's these. Yes, it's just. No one's ever had an original experience Like I. Was like, yeah, of course that would be stressful, yes, like you have.
Speaker 2:You're the new kid first of all, so you're trying to fit in anyways, and then you have the new teacher, and he's a guy and he's super young, like he doesn't really know, and even the mom's like well, we'll see if you learn anything this year, like, oh, my god, I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in 1970 essentially yeah, I'm sure I mean that's even crazier, like have a male elementary school teacher. Yeah, I'm sure that was a lot of weird pressure. And then the other thing, that another event in the book that stood out to me was the birthday party. Oh my god, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, explain the birthday party.
Speaker 1:So what's the same? Lawrence or Norman, I think.
Speaker 2:Norman something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a weird kid in her class who has a birthday. But they find out everyone in the class has been invited to this fancy dinner party, like birthday party, yes, and it's mixed gender, yes, and it's a little bit of a mess. And so all of her friends are freaking out. What are we going to wear? Life is dressed up really fancy, and then the movie they do a really good job of showing, like just the level of excitement about this, but the funny thing is they don't even really like the kid whose birthday it is.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's not even about him. Yeah, it's about the fact that the whole class is going in. Boys are going to be there.
Speaker 1:They get to dress up, oh god. So what happens when they get to the birthday party?
Speaker 2:First of all, they all act like fools. They basically are ruining this lady, but it's like a nice house. I can visualize this because I definitely went. I went to an elementary school where there were some wealthy kids who, all you know, filtered out by the time you're going to a public middle school, but in elementary school they were still there and so there were some parties where they had like a full, like I never had a finished basement, you know like where, but they had like a full finished basement and like a mansion like house. So I can imagine that experience of like going to someone's house and it's like super nice and you're just like whoa, they are so like this is such a different world and but they act crazy and the mom's like getting mad. She's like I'm going to. If you don't stop, I'm going to call out your parents. So they have to play some games and you guessed it.
Speaker 1:They play spin the bottle at first. Did you ever play spin the bottle? I never. I never played spin the bottle to completion. I was going to spend the bottle circle one time but I never. In middle school you didn't get landed on. I think actually more sad than that was I did get landed on but then no one like. Whoever landed on me was just like no. So you know that's a bleak, but anyway.
Speaker 2:I didn't know like. I mean, I am not like a cool person. I think the only boy girl party I ever went to was like at your birthday.
Speaker 1:Oh, my 13th birthday.
Speaker 2:I was in middle school, which was iconic, but there was definitely no spin the bottle at that. So I can't really say. But I have always kind of thought like, does this really happen? But I guess it probably does happen, I think, spin the bottle. And so it's like they play also another version of like seven minutes and heaven, but it's like two minutes or something. So yeah, I've always just been like I don't know, does that? Do people really do that?
Speaker 1:I don't know I guess they do so. They play this two minutes game and everyone like has a number, and then people draw a number, and so the boy in the class I forget his name, but Phillip, that everyone. Phillip Leroy yes, everyone thinks is like really, really like dreamy. He draws Margaret's number yes, so she goes into the bathroom with him and he kisses her.
Speaker 1:She has her first kiss and all of her friends are super jealous. Yes, it's like the best day of her life, but she has this high, high, but the low is that, like a couple weeks later, on her birthday, he's like he pinches her and he's like a pinch to grow an inch, and you know where you need that inch, and he's like talking about her boobs. He's like a terrible person and it's just like. It's like that, isn't it Like the boys that you like? You know it just. Of course she would fill this betrayal Like oh, my first kiss ended up being this, really like douchey guy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think even more interesting about this is like she doesn't even really like him, like she actually likes her friend's older brother, but like she feels this pressure to like him because he's the cool kid and everyone else likes him. So she's like I guess I have a crush on him, but it's like yeah, no, like. I think that's relatable too. Just like, yeah, he's the cutest kid in class, or whatever. We love him.
Speaker 1:I'm supposed to like him. That's another element of this. Like I'm supposed to like this one kid, but really I like this other one who maybe other people would think is weird. So I'm just not going to be too mad, I'm just going to stick with.
Speaker 2:Philip Leroy, but he also sucks, so yeah.
Speaker 1:And then another through line read the book is her little friend group of like four friends who's going to get their period first, and then the jealousy that she feels when some of the other girls get their period first.
Speaker 2:And then, like one of them lies about it and like the betrayal of that, why? But it's like you could understand that she's feeling nervous, that she's going to feel like like I don't know, I think it's just. It's such a weird thing because when you're an adult, you're like why did I ever wish for this? But as a kid, I think it's really not about like whatever. It's about what it symbolizes of like I don't want to be weird and it's all happening to everyone around the same time.
Speaker 2:And then if you, if it doesn't happen to you and it happens to all your friends, then you're weird and like there's something wrong with you, which is not true, but you know, like obviously everyone's on a different path or whatever, but it's just like a bodily function. Yeah, I think just the worst thing that can happen to you when you're that age is to be different from people and like, yeah, like that is whether it's getting your period or wearing the wrong thing. Like they tell her not to wear socks with her loafers, so she's like I will get blisters on my feet rather than be the one wearing socks, you know. And so, yeah, I just think the worst thing that can happen to you when you're 11 or 12 is to be different from everyone.
Speaker 1:And to feel like there's something wrong with you, like or I'm not. I think what I'm trying to say is like there's something that my friends understand that I don't.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they're all talking about it.
Speaker 1:you know, and talking about oh, you know, yeah, I don't even know what I think what we used to call it Like in middle school. We were like Walter, we called her.
Speaker 2:That's so true.
Speaker 1:Oh, my friend Walter is in town. I don't know why we do that. I remember, I remember I was one of you guys like got your period but didn't tell me, and I was like what, why didn't you tell me?
Speaker 2:or like yeah, that sounds like me, but yeah it's probably. I was like Hello, yeah, no, it's just such a, it's such a weird time in your life and yeah oh, it's so I would not not never go back. I would never go back to that time of my life for a million dollars but I would never do that again. But it is so again. This is why I was like man. I really wish I had read this at that age, because it would help you feel like, okay, there's nothing wrong with me.
Speaker 2:Everyone has the same experiences and it's all going to be fine, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, any other moments you want to pull out or things that stood out to you.
Speaker 2:I don't think so I'm looking at my little notes app that I wrote while, I was reading it, but I said Nancy is a bee, that's the leader of her friend group. Also, her name is Nancy Wheeler, which I thought was funny. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, one thing I like that. So she and the movie version Nancy, is like even more of a bee, like you're like oh yeah, but she this is why she's the worst, because even though she doesn't get her period first, so she gets her period like second to last or something. She has like little boobs first, like first, yes, and she's always talking about oh, whenever you guys grow like me yes you know, or whatever. It's just like oh my God, nancy, shut up.
Speaker 2:Yes, I just wanted to smack her. I did too, I really did, and she's just so. I don't know. Every friend group probably needs that person who's like a little bit like controlling, but yeah, she's annoying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but she's like gosh, she's the worst.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that was the main thing. I think we talked about everything else I wrote down. Oh, and I wrote the cringe of changing in front of friends at that age, because the first day when she goes to Nancy Wheeler's house, like the first time she gets there, nancy's like here you can borrow a swimsuit. And she's like, oh, like, can I go change somewhere else? And Nancy's like, no, it's fine, just change here. But like, oh my gosh, like when you're 11, I don't know Something about changing in front of your friends. I was so like I cannot. I remember at that age I was felt really embarrassing, but I didn't even want to put on Deonara in front of my friends For some reason. Like, even that was like humiliating to me. Is it just like?
Speaker 1:it's admitting the fact. I think what it is is like when you're a little kid you don't care about changing in front of your friends because you don't even really aware of your body. You're just like, oh, whatever. But it's at this time when you're becoming aware of yourself in such a weird way and you don't understand that yet. And so the fact that, like putting deodorant on in front of friends, it's like it's admitting the fact that you might need deodorant.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think, yeah, like everyone is changing and so you don't really want to like show like I don't know, like yeah, it's just so weird, it's so weird, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I remember, yeah, or like, oh, like shaving my legs for the first time. I remember like that was literally my birthday present, was like one year so I think when I was like 11 or 12, my mom, like because I had been asking, I really want to shave my legs, and my mom was like pushing back against it because she was like I don't think you're old enough yet, like you don't need to do that yet, or whatever, and probably because she was clinging onto this idea of me, you know being a little kid, but I remember I got a razor and shaving cream for my birthday and I became. I was so before I, before I was able to shave my legs. I was so aware of everyone around me, the girls that were, the girls that were and you can bleep this out but she did everything first.
Speaker 2:Yes, she was so mature, she shaved first.
Speaker 1:And it was just like I felt so insecure. Yeah, being so behind, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just feels like every, because there's so much change at this age, like you said shaming, wearing a bra, getting your period, like noticing boys and them noticing you, and all of that. There's so many things that happen and it's such a clear line of who's doing things and who's not doing things and if you're not, it makes you feel so like you're an alien on a fourth planet all of a sudden, or like you're behind on something, or like you didn't even realize whatever, Like you don't even realize you're supposed to and it's just, it's so uncomfortable. So I feel for Margaret every day in this book. Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:And I love her. I do the point of duty blooms, genius and how she like is showing the experience of multiple generations of women. There are little moments that you see through Margaret's eyes. Like her mom used to teach art when they lived in the city but now she's going to be able to stay home every day with Margaret and whatever, but every day her mom is painting and it's like through an adult lens you can look and see oh, her mom is struggling with her own identity of like. I want, you know, I want to be this really available mom for Margaret and also I'm trying to balance that with like my own calling and my interests and things like that, yeah, and then you see, like her grandmother's experience of feeling like alone and isolated and losing her identity too. So I think it's a book about women and their self perception and their sense of identity and belonging.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:That's what makes it such a work of art.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love this book, I know. Yeah, I wish I could go back in time and give it to my younger self. This is a book that, if you aren't going to give your kid little house on the prairie, give them. Are you there?
Speaker 1:They're going to say Margaret.
Speaker 2:And just also something I wanted to say like I just loved her little prayers to God because it's so relatable, like you feel, like I don't know I could see I read a critique of this or an interview with Judy Blume where she was just they were discussing a critique from a man, a male critic, who was like you make it seem like girls are so trivial and they don't care. But it's like no, this is not trivial. When you are 11, you would pray to God that your boobs would grow, or like about your friends.
Speaker 2:That is what matters to you, and like I don't know, she's taking those things so seriously that she does pray to God about it and she doesn't even feel like I just loved it. It was just so like innocent and it's not attached to any kind of religion. So it's just this like innocent, pure prayer of like I'm not putting any like. She doesn't even feel self-conscious. It's like hey God, remember I asked you about my boobs growing, like what's up with that? And she's not even feeling like this is a stupid thing to pray about. She's just like no, this is what's important to me right now in my life. So I just really liked that whole, you know like through line of her little prayers to God, like they were just really like nice and I don't know. I really liked it.
Speaker 1:Like, biologically, stress is stress. So like sure, for like a privileged kid who doesn't have to worry about hunger or danger or things like that. The thing I was talking to actually I was this is so weird. I was yesterday or two days ago. I was talking to some coworkers who have one of them has a 12 year old and one of them has a 14 year old about the things that stress their kids out, and I had this exact conversation of like we have to remember that, just because those things don't seem stressful to us, that is the whole world today. So I get that, because I prayed a lot as 11 and 12 year old and the things I was praying about were like God, just like I don't want to be weird.
Speaker 2:I want to have friends.
Speaker 1:I want to. I want to have boobs. I want to like. I want to be okay and make sure my, like you know, I haven't got my period yet. Is that okay? Like those are.
Speaker 2:They're serious, exactly what you're saying. Yeah, yes, you're right and luckily, honestly, yeah, like you don't have a famine going on. You know horrible things, but you have those other things are so serious and so, yeah, I just really liked that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Love. This is a work of art, it is so. The last thing I just wanted to discuss was a little bit about the movie.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So I'll wait for you to see it, but I honestly will probably see it again. Yeah, I went with my some girls from my book club and when it was over we were like best picture, like it was honestly so good.
Speaker 2:It has really good reviews so far. Have seen as well from my Google, so that's good.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's, it's absolutely heartwarming and wonderful. I laughed out loud, I cried and it's just wonderful. But I wanted to just highlight a few things like so Kathy Bates is a grandma, yes, just perfection. Rachel McAdams is the mom which kind of threw me for a loop, because in the book I kind of imagined so this is just like. I think this is another thing about the book. In the book I imagined her being a little bit like more old and like doubt, more dowdy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like Rachel McAdams.
Speaker 1:But that's of course because it's from my, from Margaret's perspective.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, that's one thing I did notice. You I'm like, oh gosh, because, like some of the moms, you're like, Hmm, yeah, like they're in their early 30s, you're like right. I guess I missed that window to be the age of the moms in this book. You know like, like they're pretty young to have a 12, in my opinion, to have a 12 year old, but I don't know. That was interesting.
Speaker 1:Totally yeah, her grandma is only 60. Yeah, yeah, and you know, and she's 11. Yeah, so when I saw Rachel McAdams, I was like she seems kind of young to be to do this and I was like wait, no, she really isn't. Yeah, and from Margaret's perception her mom is old, yeah, but now from our perspective I'm like her mom is like hi, cool. So you know, that threw me. But the relationship between her parents is that's the thing that you kind of miss in the book, but it's really sweet in the movie. Everyone go see it, it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Well, I just love that. They just were like I don't know, I liked their, not that the relationship is shown a lot in the book, but obviously that they were willing to lose their family over loving each other. But they're honestly doesn't even seem to be like it's not like a bitterness, like you know, even the mom is trying to explain to Margaret. She's like you know your grandparents, they are just, they just believe this and you know they. You have to try to understand where they're coming from.
Speaker 2:And I just really thought that was lovely of like it's not like I hate your grandparents, or it was like even the mom, like her own parents, just owned her. I would hate my parents if they disowned me, but she's even has like compassion for them, and so I just thought that was even though they suck and I hate them, but I thought that was lovely and so yeah, yeah, I think it's like a, also a painting of, like, what hyper religiosity will do to you can sometimes cause you not to love others, yeah, but for her parents, like having more of an open heart and open hand actually caused them to be more loving, like as you would imagine a Christian should be.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, there's a lot about this book.
Speaker 2:that made me emotional. Also. I screen shot of this quote and after this whole scene with the grandparents, where Margaret gets really mad and she decides she's not praying to God anymore and she said, I caught myself starting to say are you there, god? But then I remembered I wasn't talking to him anymore. I wondered if he would strike me down. Well, if he wanted to, that was his business. I just loved that. I loved so much about this book, but that one part in particular. I'm like, yeah, that's about it. Like fine, god, if you want to strike me down, that's fine.
Speaker 1:Um, oh gosh, oh, one thing we didn't talk about, yeah, was the girl in her class.
Speaker 2:Oh man I want to look from her perspective. It's like Lola or something, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Lauren or Laura.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, she is tall and she has a big move. She's developed early and because of that she's like ostracized Guys there's rumors about. She goes behind the AMP to like have boys touch her boobs and and like yeah. And through the course of the book Margaret realizes that this is like really mean. And towards the end she comes around and she's like I'm sorry and like I want to be true.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, it's sad, but I did wonder, like, like I did In my experience I think maybe this is an older version because I feel like the girls who developed early were almost like oh, you're so cool, like you know, so I don't know if there's a different equivalent to you know what that would be like today but I did feel bad for that girl, like she literally had no friends and no one wanted to talk to her and there were so many bad rumors about her and it was just because they're jealous of her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but she just wants to be. She doesn't want to be the way that she is, you know, it's just so, it's really really really rare for someone who's 11 and 12 years old to just love the way that they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no matter what.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly, you know. And so there's this ideal of like oh, I want to get big boobs, but for the girl who has big boobs, like we don't like her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she has no friends. Yeah, yeah. So there's no winning. I agree, we're went out.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, anything else you'd like to add about?
Speaker 2:this book. No just that. I think you should read it, no matter what age you are, especially if you're a female person.
Speaker 1:I feel like you have a kid if you have a daughter especially if you have a daughter to oh my gosh, yeah, even yeah.
Speaker 2:If you're a guy who has a daughter, I feel like that would be good too. I think this is, yeah, this is the 11 year old experience. So if you want to get inside the mind of an 11 year old, to me this was extremely true to life. So it I think it would be a great book study for some parents, and I totally can't like if I have a daughter one day. I would love for her to read this book. Unlike little house on the pier, she can read this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it so good yeah shout out and I can't wait to see the movie.
Speaker 2:So what the? Oh my gosh?
Speaker 1:I know after I see that I can't wait to see it again, honestly, like someone in my book club sent a message to the group chat and they're like anyone's, so thank you to that. Are you there, goddess me? And everyone was like, yes, I can't wait to see it again. I'm so like and like the conversations that we all had after the movie is girl, girl power, girl power. All right, emily, what's a book that you've read recently?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I just read this book I think I think you would really like it actually. So it's called several people are typing by Calvin Kassuke Kass, kassuk, kassuke so bad at these names, as you know, but basically this was a. Really. I read this within probably two or three hours. It's a super quick read because it is all written through Slack messages based in a company, this PR firm company, and so everyone works there and it just shows Slack messages between different people, different groups in this company.
Speaker 2:And it's kind of weird because one of the people, gerald he gets stuck inside of Slack. His consciousness is stuck in Slack. His physical body is like comatose at his apartment, which you find out at one point, but he is only existing in Slack and trying to figure out how to get out of there and so he's like trying to mess with people and they're like this is not funny, gerald. He's like I am not joking, I am stuck inside of Slack and so it's really funny. It's really like, surprisingly, a very, very sweet love story unfolds like very tender, I don't know, it was very like. I was shocked by how sweet it was. There's a slack bot who becomes somewhat sentient, so it's really fun, but it was a really fast read. So if you're looking for something because it's written in chat form, it's not super long because it's just like messages back and forth. So, yeah, if you're looking for something you could read really fast, but also that is surprisingly very lovely. I would recommend it. It was very sweet.
Speaker 2:I thought you posted about that on Instagram so I have it on hold with the library.
Speaker 1:It was really nice, yeah, I have it on hold. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun. It reminds me of the hey Ladies.
Speaker 2:Yes, very similar. I love that book as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:Okay, what about you?
Speaker 1:So I'm going to kind of cheat and do two, because I've read Malibu Rising and Kari Soto is Back by Taylor Jenkins-Reid TjR, and so okay. The first Taylor Jenkins-Reid book I read was Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo Okay, and then Big Gap, and then I read Daisy Johnson, the Six. So I didn't realize until I read Malibu Rising that all of these books are in the same universe, yes, which I'm like the last person to figure that out.
Speaker 1:So because, and in my defense, seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and Daisy Johnson, the Six, are only connected by like kind of a brief moment.
Speaker 2:No, they're very thin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like mentioned, one of the husbands in Seven, husbands of Evelyn Hugo, mick Riva, shows up at a party in Daisy Johnson the Six.
Speaker 2:So if it's been a while since you read them, you might not know, I feel like we both, notably, suck at remembering names of characters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, and it was like over a year, yeah. So then I started reading Malibu Rising and it's about Mick Riva and his family. And then I'm like, oh yeah, no, I remember this. Yeah, this is the same universe. And then I read. Then I was like, okay, well, I want to keep on with the universe. And then I read Carrie Soto's back, which is also thinly connected. But anyways, I just, I am a Taylor Jenkins-Reid girl. I love historical fiction, which you know, both of these books are. Malibu Rising is set in the 80s. Primarily it's about the family of Mick Riva and he's a bad guy that leaves his family, and it's about a party they have. There's a time jump. I am on the record saying that I love time jumps, going back and forth between time following this day. You know the end of it ends with a huge fire. Yes, and the fire is kind of like a metaphor for the story, but it hits a lot of points for me. It hits complex family dynamics, it hits historical fiction.
Speaker 2:Eldest daughters, in my opinion Eldest daughters. That's why I love that book.
Speaker 1:It's. It hits like well, and it's historical fiction in like two different time periods, like the the 60s and the 80s, and and also the other thing that hits for me is you know what happens at the end of the book.
Speaker 2:It's already been set as a beginning. I love when that that's like I love so this just like totally works for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it hits so and I can see why maybe some people don't like it, but for me, I love all of those things, so to have them all in one book was perfect. Yeah, one of the minor characters in that book is named Carrie Soto and obviously Carrie Soto is back is about Carrie Soto, who is a famous tennis player. This one is set in the 90s. She is, you can tell, inspired by Serena Williams and her relationship with her father. It's also a story about family. It's a story about Carrie Soto and her dad and her journey to becoming a famous tennis player, retiring and then getting back on the saddle. It's about like perfectionism versus like excellence, which I think are very, two very different things Her need to be perfect, her need to win versus just her love of the game. If you aren't interested in tennis at all, you may not like this.
Speaker 1:You can tell that Taylor did a lot of research about the technical bits of tennis to make this book real and authentic, because a lot of the book is descriptions of the matches and like what's actually going on? But what's going on mentally with Carrie? There's a little bit of romance and I really liked it. Okay, it's a book from the 90s, so a lot more recent of historical fiction. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, I haven't read Carrie Soto's back, but I also love TJR, so yeah, she's great, give it a shot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, all right, cool.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess we'll see everybody back one more week and then we'll be talking about Happy Place by Emily Henry, which I believe is being released today, as you're hearing this, so go ahead and pre-order that and read along with us, and we'll be talking about it next week on our pod.
Speaker 1:So, as you're listening to this somewhere, emily and I are trying to quickly read the book so that we can record something about it. All right guys, okay, bye, bye.
Speaker 2:Bye.