The Readirect Podcast
Harry Potter and Naming Your Kids After Dead People (Deep Dive Part 3)
We are back with our third (AND FINAL) installment in our Harry Potter Deep Dive. Did we intend for this to be a full and lengthy three parts? Clearly not. However, it was fun, unhinged, and chaotic in the best ways.
Listen to this deep dive where we're covering books five, six, and seven. Emily tries to be normal about Sirius and Remus, and chicken-wing Voldemort makes a long-awaited reappearance.
As always, we adamantly do not support JK Rowling and her views. To do our part to counteract the negativity she's bringing into the world on a near daily basis, we're fundraising for the Trevor Project. Donate at this link sometime in the next two weeks to be entered for a chance to choose what book we discuss on our podcast!
Recent Reads:
We are back with our third (AND FINAL) installment in our Harry Potter Deep Dive. Did we intend for this to be a full and lengthy three parts? Clearly not. However, it was fun, unhinged, and chaotic in the best ways.
Listen to this deep dive where we're covering books five, six, and seven. Emily tries to be normal about Sirius and Remus, and chicken-wing Voldemort makes a long-awaited reappearance.
As always, we adamantly do not support JK Rowling and her views. To do our part to counteract the negativity she's bringing into the world on a near daily basis, we're fundraising for the Trevor Project. Donate at this link sometime in the next two weeks to be entered for a chance to choose what book we discuss on our podcast!
Recent Reads:
Welcome to the Redirect Podcast. My name is Abigail Freshley and I'm Emily Rojas.
Speaker 2:The Redirect Podcast is a show where we shift the conversation back to books. We discuss themes from some of our favorite books and help those themes show up in real lived experiences.
Speaker 1:On today's episode, we are actually finishing up our three-part series on the complicated and nuanced book series Harry Potter.
Speaker 2:But first, if you enjoy our podcast, please support us in a few simple ways. You can leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us know that you love the show.
Speaker 1:We'd also love for you to follow us on Instagram at Redirect Podcast. And finally, if you really really love a show, we'd love for you to follow us on instagram at redirect podcast. And finally, if you really really love a show, we'd love for you to share it with a friend.
Speaker 2:Sharing our show with a friend is the best way to help us grow our community of book loving nerds okay, just we did not need to be here when you were okay, right before we started recording, we were talking about how we're going to release these and how to space them out and I was still thinking in my mind there was only two, until you just said the third installment. I'm like, oh, that's why we were talking about that. Yeah, that is kind of a lot, but I'm glad you're still here, you guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming back and we have three books to talk about and coincidentally, they are the three longest books of the entire series. So we are determined up. Baby like to a, move through this faster, but b we're just going to be here until the episode is over yeah, so buckle in, lock, in lock in um.
Speaker 1:Last time we said that we would be raising money for the trevor project through july 15th. I'm just gonna go ahead push that as long as we're still releasing Harry Potter episodes we'll still be raising money for the Trevor Project. Yeah, so just basically whatever. Like two weeks past this day is that this was released.
Speaker 1:We will be raising money for the Trevor Project via the link in our bio Through August 12th, yeah, and still, the deal is, if you donate via the link in our bio, don't donate anonymously um, donate with your name or your instagram handle or something like that, so that we can enter you into a chance to have your favorite book discussed on the podcast yeah and um, you can donate anonymously, like you said, and dm us. So yeah, totally if you want to be a silent philanthropist, you can donate anonymously like you said and DM us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, If you want to be a silent philanthropist, you can still DM us or if you feel like it's not safe for you to publicly donate to the Trevor Project, yeah, fair that's fine, happy, extended pride to the podcast, the redirect podcast. Really a state of mind.
Speaker 2:Anyways, part three. I really didn't think when we started that this would be three parts. I thought maybe one, maybe maybe two.
Speaker 1:But here we are yeah, and these are the longest, so let's go let's start. All right, so we left off. Um, we're picking up at book five harry potter and the order of the phoenix. So voldy is back. He's back in his bag. He is hot girl. Summer of 2004 or whatever this is Embodied summer.
Speaker 2:No more fetus body summer for Voldemort.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Harry is yet again back in Little Wing. How did the British say it? Little Wing Jing, someone British?
Speaker 2:No, idea a little wing wing.
Speaker 1:how did the british say it little wing jing, wait someone british okay, yeah, do we have um he's with aunt petunia and uncle vernon and he's chilling. And then dementors roll up. We established already, harry does not like dementors. Um sorry, it just reminded me of Prison Mike when he was like the Dementors.
Speaker 2:The Dementors.
Speaker 1:The worst part about Prison no, not from Harry Potter, the worst thing about. Prison was the Dementors.
Speaker 2:They were flying all over the place and they were scary, and then they'd come down and they'd suck the soul out of your body and then hoit Dementors like in Harry Potter. No, not Harry Potterter.
Speaker 1:There are no movies in prison um, okay, so they roll up on harry and dudley, yeah and um. Also, I'd like to say another thing that I've never really thought about. This problematic about harry potter but dudley sucks because he's a bully, right, not because he's fat, but he also happens to be all of them happen to be fat yeah, so I think it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's also obviously jk rowling like definitely did that. Um, because he's very much described that way in the books. It's not just like a casting thing, but I I think it's supposed to like be like well, harry's being starved to death and it's definitely a contrast. Yeah, but it's yeah. That's not why they're bad, you know. Yeah, totally great clarification um.
Speaker 1:so harry has no choice but to do a patronus charm to save him and dudley from getting the dementous kiss, and that is a violation of magical law because he is not 17. So he is whisked away to London and he has to stay in trial in front of, like this courtroom of you know very serious looking, which witches and wizards, and who shows up to defend him Then good old Albie Dumbie.
Speaker 2:The wizarding world needs to like chill a big one on this underage magic thing, because to me there seems like there are so many scenarios where this could happen. It's obviously a very dangerous world. Things are always happening to these people Like is it really that big of a deal? I feel like this should be a straightforward thing, like I don't feel like he should have to stand trial as a minor for this incident is, you know, maybe it's not allowed. I would say like hey, don't do that in the muggle world.
Speaker 1:This would be an instance like um, you're like 15, you don't have your driver's license yet, but your little sister or brother, like, had a serious accident while you were at home watching them and somebody had to take them to the hospital.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you have no choice.
Speaker 1:No prosecutor is going to be like we're going after this kid to the fullest extent of the law for this, but right, I think they're also just like we're going to silence you, harry, because yeah, it's really to overrule our fake news that voldemort is not he's, he's being hashtag, censored and um, because he's saying the dementors were there and they're like well, the dementors are under the control of the ministry of magic, so how would that be possible? And you're lying, harry yeah and that's when we meet good old um dolores umbridge the worst who is part of this hearing um.
Speaker 2:She is so evil no one in a book has ever, or probably will ever, make me as angry as dolores umbridge, because there is nothing that makes me more upset than someone like who I don't know, like the, the sense of injustice of dolores and the things she does and the control she tries to implement. And again, why is Dumbledore allowing this to happen? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Right, like I understand that he starts losing his political influence around this time. Because people think he's. People don't want to be frank about the fact that Voldy has returned. But, yeah, she's the worst.
Speaker 2:People don't want to be frank about the fact that Voldy has returned.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, she's the worst. So, whatever Dumbledore won't look at or talk to Harry, right?
Speaker 2:During this whole trial, which is also so maddening.
Speaker 1:It doesn't explain why, and then just like skeets out of there. Yeah. Then Harry's like well, that was weird, okay, whatever.
Speaker 2:Whatever gets to school and dolores umbridge has been appointed the new defense against the dark arts teacher yeah, very annoying, very annoying um the worst, the worst defense against the dark arts teacher, including snape, you know by far, yeah, so she she doesn't want to teach them how to use defensive spells, basically, and they don't like that because they know they're going to war. But she's like, no, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1:So she's basically just having them study theory and write papers about it, but no practicing spells, no application.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy, I don't know. I mean, obviously I think politicians are actually like this um, so I get it. But cornelius fudge like what is his long game here? Because he knows in his heart that voldemort is back. He has to know that that's true, or at least that there's rumble like things are happening the dark mark thing, the triwizard tournament, stuff, like cedric is dead, so there has to be something going on and in his mind, like the way to deal with that is just to deny it but also to not prepare students in any way, like that doesn't make any sense to me. But I I think that's a realistic portrayal of a lot of politicians, probably. So I think that's fair.
Speaker 1:But it's just like if I manage the br, then the actual thing will go away. And yeah, it's not. Not like that, it's not the reality. So she gets more and more oppressive. She clearly doesn't like Harry. There's lots of like clashes between them. Also, Fred and George storm out of hogwarts um and protest like harry being suspended from the quidditch team. And, uh, they go open their joke shop which is cool and um harry's having these weird dreams.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes yes, what's up with these dreams? I guess it's because he's seeing a vision of what voldemort's actually doing, because their minds are connected, um right, so it's.
Speaker 1:This book is where we start getting introduced to the theme, like now that voldy is back in a body, they there's something that's connecting them, but we don't know what yet. And so sometimes when voldemort is seeing things or thinking about things, it comes, comes through in Harry's mind like this very intrusive vision, and he keeps seeing this vision of, like the inside of the Ministry of Magic, at the Department of Mysteries, where he enters a room full of dusty glass globes, kind of things. Um, he always wakes up before he finds out what the dream means or what the spheres are signifying, right, um, and then it gets more intense yeah, it gets more and more intense.
Speaker 2:Um so one night harry has a vision. There he inhabits the body of a large snake and attacks ron's father, and he wakes up horrified. He goes to dumbledore. Finally, dumbledore will talk to him.
Speaker 1:Now that he's useful to him again, dumbledore won't talk to him when I mean I get why, whatever also, the thing that's messed up is that dumbledore knew from the start that this was probably going to happen, didn't warn harry about it, didn't tell him he was only thinking about himself and was like don't look at me because then voldemort could like break into my mind like yes, I want to protect myself from you, but I'm not even going to try and protect you from you.
Speaker 2:So the thing is yeah, he could have started so, whatever that turned out to be true, mr weasley was attacked and they they are able to rescue him. But um, and then dumbledore insists that harry goes through occlumency lessons with Snape so that he can protect his mind. But the thing is, he could have if he had this in his mind, which is why he was ignoring Harry, why he was not telling him everything he obviously knew from probably Harry's birth and all that happened, or not Harry's birth, but when Voldemort first attacked. So why didn't he start him day one at Hogwarts in occlumency lessons, being like we are going to teach you these things. I don't know why that happens. Anyways, why didn't he start him from day one teaching him? Because then maybe he would have actually been prepared by this book and none of this would have happened. But again, I think it's because he wanted to be like oh, I can get it, I can hear. It can be like an insight into Voldemort's mind too, and maybe he can get us some intel. It's so selfish.
Speaker 1:So Harry has to spend like one on one, close time with Snape doing these occlumency lessons where Harry is trying to keep Snape out of his mind. And if you, if you, go on to read the sacred text of um manacled, you'll get a very deep look into um occlumency. But anyways, um one time harry kind of like reverses it on snape and goes into his mind and he finds out that his dad was a bully to him and that maybe Snape had feelings for his mom. Yeah, and he's like. This is the famous moment in the movie where he's like your father was a swine Classic yeah.
Speaker 2:And this whole time also, the little group of kids has formed Dumbledore's army and they are meeting secretly to practice defensive spells, practice, you know, dueling, all this kind of stuff. Oh, this is really cool.
Speaker 1:They find the room of requirement, or neighbor, doesn't Neville find it so? Um it's this cool secret room in Hogwarts where, if you're walking by it and you need something in particular, it kind of turned into that thing. So it's a place to hide something, it's a bathroom, it's whatever and it turns into this really cool um like training room with mirrors and props and all the like mats and all the stuff you need to practice.
Speaker 2:yeah, um. So anyways, he sucks at occlumency. Harry does, but his scar keeps burning every time. He has powerful emotions and eventually harry has another vision of sirius being held captive and tortured by Voldemort. Horrified, he becomes determined to save him and Hermione is like, hey, this might be a trap actually, again, the only one with any common sense but Harry's too worried about taking any chances, so he's like gotta go, you know, but harry's too worried about taking any chances, so he's like gotta go, you know. So also, dumbledore resigns as headmaster.
Speaker 1:um, and umbridge takes over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, basically the worst possible things that could have happened to harry at this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah so basically he sneaks into umbridge's office and using her fireplace and like the flu network, trans uh, transports himself to 12 Grimald place, which is Sirius's house and also the headquarters of the order, and he looks for Sirius and um creature. His house elf tells Harry that Sirius at the ministry of magic. So Harry returns Hogwarts, finds that he is in friends who've been caught in Umbridge's office.
Speaker 2:And it's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then Hermione convinces Umbridge to follow them into the forest where they came to be hiding a weapon for Dumbledore, because they're like, we're Dumbledore's army, we're hiding a weapon for Dumbledore, and she's just kind of improvising all this stuff. Once again the forest centaurs carry Umbridge away and harry and his friends climb aboard flying horses called best rolls and speed off to the ministry which was awesome, by the way, when the centaurs carry umbridge away.
Speaker 2:That was the best thing that's ever happened.
Speaker 1:So this is where really starts hitting the fan. Yeah, um, they are ambushed. Yeah, rione was right, what a shock. They get there and everyone's trying to kill Harry and there's like this, like door there that if you fall through it you die, yeah, which seems like y'all can't have better protection around that, like a glass cube or something covering it, so no one can enter it ever.
Speaker 2:But no, it's just there wide open.
Speaker 1:So um a couple things happen. There's the the sphere that he's been in his dreams is there. It holds a prophecy. Harry drops the glass sphere and it shatters and sirius is killed by bella strict's little strange um. You know what I think? Bella Strixell Strange is obviously insane and crazy deranged, but I actually would argue she's not as evil as Dolores.
Speaker 2:Because she leans into the evil, at least she has principles. She just stands for something. I am evil.
Speaker 1:This is what I believe, and Dolores Umbridge has this facade of genteelnessness. I'm doing the right thing but I'm just gonna do what I self-righteous yeah, it's all for my own power.
Speaker 2:I agree with you yeah yeah, I hate Umbridge, so I'll agree with that. Anyone I think Voldemort's better than her?
Speaker 1:yeah, she's horrible, she's the worst. Um, so the prophecy cracks open and it's like projected out loud, and it goes on to claim that harry will either destroy voldemort or be destroyed by him. Yeah, dumbledore takes this opportunity to tell harry why he must spend the summers with the dursleys and little wing jing, because harry's mother died to save him. He's lost their love, a blessing that can be sealed only by blood. Harry's aunt, petunia, his mother's sister, makes that bond complete by taking harry into her home. Um, to me that's tenuous. That is a very best again.
Speaker 2:I just think dumbledore did the bare minimum, because if all it takes is a blood relative, there is no way. There's not like a cousin you know a great uncle, you know a great uncle, you know what I mean Like some kind of, even if it's just blood, it only has to be a blood relation. I feel like there are other people that could have taken him in that wouldn't have literally locked him away, starved him at times, deprived him of like anything yeah, abused him, neglected him, whatever.
Speaker 2:Like there is definitely someone out there who would have done that. Or we've seen how scared vernon is of wizards. Like why was no one checking in? Like someone could have checked in once a year at least and just made sure. Like hey, are you being treated okay? Why is there no wizard social workers? So anyways, I don't agree with this. I mean, I believe that maybe this is fine. I don't totally get it either, because why is he okay for the majority of the year at hogwarts? You know, like why is it just the summers again? Why couldn't he just stay at hogwarts during the summer? I don't know, I have so many questions about this. I don't think I think all of our planning or dumbler's right, but I think he didn't explore the possible options besides this horrible home environment.
Speaker 1:I think for all of her planning and plotting out these payoffs to happen in the book, some of it is a little bit tenuous and, like the myth of it all is not perfectly explained.
Speaker 2:Yeah so um and now this is the first time where Dumbledore actually kind of like explain something to harry, um, and explains the prophecy, explains the you know, power of love. Yeah, and meanwhile serious is dead and again this is what I talked about on our last episode, like the serious black arc. To me is so sad because it was finally someone who cared about harry in like a complete unselfish way and just wanted to take care of him. And he had a little glimpse of that and was never able to really have it for very long, and then he's just killed right in front of him.
Speaker 1:Um, you know it's brutal and it's brutal and also I don't know if this happens in the book. I think so, but in the movie sirius looks over and he's like nice one, james oh my god, I'm sorry, are you okay?
Speaker 2:that part is so upsetting as well, because you know that's the whole thing too of him being like oh my gosh, your patronus is the you know animal that james used to shift into and you look so much like him. I just can't imagine that. Like you know, he had all these best friends who were just killed in front of him, and then he comes back out of prison and meets the son of his godson and he looks just like his best friend did, and it's like I just think also like maybe it goes to show that Sirius is like more complicated than we think, Like he's not.
Speaker 1:maybe he never really saw Harry as a godson. He saw him as like just a continuation of his friend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure that was definitely part of it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah it's tough. All right, we are on to book six. We did pretty good with that, all right. Great book six, so half a book. This is the best start of a book. Of these books, this is my favorite it's so good and the movie.
Speaker 1:I know I said I loved the third movie, but this is definitely my second favorite, for sure, like it's between those two, because the start of this movie is also it's really so good at capturing like, oh, the whole world is falling into darkness, so um very yes so, from a reader's perspective, you're coming into this and you're like I'm pretty sure snape is bad but like yet to be confirmed that he's a death eater. But like I, like, I don't know. In book five he was trusted by Dumbledore to do the occlumency lessons, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah this book starts and it's Narcissa, which is Draco's mom, bellatrix, which is Draco's aunt, and Snape are all together in a room and they're all freaking out and Bellatrix is like will you make an unbreakable vow to Narcissa to protect the boy? And they're talking about Draco. And so we learn about these unbreakable vows, which also, if you're going to get into Harry Potter fan fiction, you need to know something about unbreakable vows. Yeah, they're present, they're very, very prominent.
Speaker 2:Oh my.
Speaker 1:God, our brains are so rotten, but anyway, yeah, god, our brains are so rotten, but anyway, yeah, um, so they uh do so. Basically, the terms of an unbreakable vow are that if you um break it, you die.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's basically it like you're making a promise that if you don't yeah, if you don't follow through, you'll die instantly, and I think it's described to be like a horrible, painful death or something.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, right so the terms of the vow are that snape will protect draco, support him in his mission from the dark lord and um, if he's, if he fails in his quest to fulfill the mission, that snape will complete it himself.
Speaker 2:Yes. So then cut to. But you're like what? What's the mission? I don't know, we don't know, we'll find out.
Speaker 1:So cut to Dumbledore's, heading over to Harry's house, still with Aunt Petunia and Uncle Dursley and Uncle Vernon, I mean to collect Harry from his aunt and uncle. On the way to the Weasley's house, harry and Dumbledore stopped to recruit Horace Slughorn to return to teaching at Hogwarts. Very specific and very weird.
Speaker 2:Yes, an odd scene as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he has. He was long ago a teacher at Hogwarts and has since retired and his house is really weird and he's like transformed into a chair.
Speaker 2:It's very odd yeah, yes, because he thinks voldemort will come looking for him, um, so maybe there's some implications that dumbledore is trying to get to him first or keep him away from voldort.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, he recruits him to come to be the new potions master, because now it's like confirmed Snape is a baddie.
Speaker 2:And he's going to be the new Defense Against the Dark Guards. Teacher.
Speaker 1:Oh, so it's not confirmed. He's a baddie.
Speaker 2:No, that's just a vision that Harry has right, or somehow it's a scene we see.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a scene we see. Yes, we see it not from harry's point of view.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, he's still a teacher.
Speaker 1:Um, yes, so so he's going to be that role it's the dark arts, yeah and um, and then slughorn's gonna be potions master. Uh, harry and ron pull up to first day of potions. Oh, and also on double doors. Like harry, I need you to get close to him and get him to really like you be a star student, because I'm going to need you to find out some shit about him. Yeah, and some things that he's done. So he's like yeah, sounds good.
Speaker 2:So they go to potion. Anything for you, Dumbledore, even though you've never done anything for me ever.
Speaker 1:I know we're in a totally like transactional one way relationship and also you're kind of like grooming me in weird ways, but that's fine Anyway they get to potions, harry gets a secondhand textbook that once belonged to the Half-Blood.
Speaker 1:Prince. It's a property of Half-Blood Prince and there's all these modifications to potions and all this stuff in there and it's making him really good at potions and he gets really into this book. Yes, um, it's yeah. Concurrently, dumbledore and harry are meeting for these little um, like one-on-one sessions where they take some memories that dumbledore has collected over the years and put them into the ponceve emily. What is the ponceve?
Speaker 2:it's a uh we kind of reference this in our second episode about these books um, because you can pull out memories. Memories are like a tangible thing in this world and you can put them in this little kind of a a bowl, a well, a dish, a fancy dish and you can put them in there and then, kind of like, put your head in there and you can see and experience the memory as it happened. Um, so that's what we were talking about when we were like, can, why don't they just clear up sirius's name by extracting his memories? Then you could know, um, so yeah, this is how you can do that. You can, um, so dumbledore's been collecting, like other people's memories.
Speaker 1:It's not his memories, but he's been like he's showing them to harry and he can see kind of his life, and the point of harry of dumbledore showing these to him is he's showing him vignettes through tom riddle. Voldemort's life and um things that are important to him are significant. And then we find out that when he was a student at Hogwarts he talked to Professor Slughorn and asked him how to make a horcrux, which is essentially a way to split your soul and to, and like, put it into an object, and then you can't ever really die until all of those objects are destroyed, because it's like a scrap of your essence or being still lives on and an object which is how he didn't die the original night when he attacked Harry, is because he still had some horcruxes out there.
Speaker 2:Obviously it seems a little odd of like. How did he live? We don't really know. Eventually he was on the back of Coral's head, and then he was a little weird baby thing. And then he was a little weird baby thing, uh, and then he became a person again. So it's not like you just respawn, but uh, yeah, you are not fully dead either. So it's kind of odd. So so they're looking for, they believe, seven horcruxes yes, and two the ring and the diary have already been destroyed yeah, like hopefully in earlier books.
Speaker 1:So yes, um well, no, just the diary, right I'm reading.
Speaker 2:It says two of these tom's diary and marvolo's ring have already been destroyed. Oh okay, cool yes okay, so the ring is what? Because I'm getting so confused between the ring and the locket. I think the ring is what dumbledore is wearing and his hand starts going black. Yes, so he must have destroyed it, but it's also infecting him I don't.
Speaker 1:I just I thought it wasn't destroyed yet because I thought they had to figure out how to destroy them, and the only one that they had already destroyed was the diary this says that um albus did it like before the school year started okay. So then he knew how to destroy horcruxes and he didn't tell harry he used the godric irvendor sword. Obi said I don't have that sword anymore. No, but he had it in his possession when he died okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So he put on the ring because he saw the resurrection stone on there and he thought he could use it to bring back his sister. So, instead of destroying it immediately, he put on the ring, which started the oh the ring had the resurrection on his hand, like in it.
Speaker 2:In it, yes. And then when he goes back to hogwarts he destroys it and, but it didn't stop the curse. It had already given him the curse and severus had stopped the curse. But he said you only have a year to live anyways. And then dumbledore kept wearing the ring and he was wearing it when he year to live anyways. And then dumbledore kept wearing the ring and he was wearing it when he picked up harry potter and went to horse slughorn. But it was already destroyed and dumbledore specifically displayed the ring to slughorn in order to um show him that he knew that he had it. Basically, and that's that okay.
Speaker 2:So the thing is that dumbledore knew all along how to destroy the core cruxes and never told harry but I think he did tell him that, that the basilisk venom could destroy it, because harry learns that at some point harry, I thought harry figures it out.
Speaker 1:Basically hermione figures it out in yeah, you're probably right. Um in uh, the deathly hallows, because they're like I was reading about the sword of gryffindor you use.
Speaker 2:You're right, you're right, you're right. Never had time to explain, yeah yeah, okay sure simply did not have enough time. This fucking guy he did. God, I'm so mad.
Speaker 1:Okay, so later when we get to the next book, hermione figures out that the reason the sword could kill the thing is because he had stabbed the basilisk with it. First it absorbed the things. That makes it stronger, it got the venom in there and now it's used to kill horcruxes. Okay, correct, so he did Like. This is stupid, and this is another reason. This is another reason that Dumbledore is the smallest man who ever lived, because Again yeah.
Speaker 2:Why didn't he just say, like why they're lived because, again yeah. Why didn't he just say, like why they're having all these one-on-one meetings? They're looking back to try to find horcruxes like this is the time to be like?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna tell you oh hey, by the way, I know how to get rid of them he knows, yes, and he also knows best case scenario.
Speaker 2:He's got a year to live. He's pretty sure, as we know later, not to spoil anything but that this whole thing with the unbreakable route with snape, with draco with him, that snape's gonna have to kill him at some point very soon. Like he knows he's about to die. So your time is limited. You're meeting with harry one-on-one. Why wouldn't you say this is the thing about the horcruxes? By the way, you are also one in a chill way.
Speaker 1:You're gonna have to die, yeah, and the chillest way possible, but also you have to kill all of this other. You have to kill him first. I, whatever, I'm just I'm over it, okay. So, all the while, while this is going on, draco is acting super sus. Um, there's like this whole bit where, like, there's this vanishing cabinet that goes back and yeah, I know we love him and he's totally misunderstood and go to archive of our owncom to find out more, so, okay. So, um, harry and ron and hermione are like Draco's hell is us. Weird stuff is going on and also Snape is always around him helping him out. Like Snape is also as hell.
Speaker 2:So we know, Draco's family is bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, doesn't connect these dots. He's got to be a death eater. Well, basically also subplot that's going on that we just won't get into because we don't have time is that Ron and Hermione are doing this whole. Will they, won't they thing it's like they're dating other people. They're jealous. Also, Slughorn has all of these dinner parties. He's inviting kids to whatever. He's a little creepy.
Speaker 2:That just seems like a little bit like weird again dumbledore, what are you letting go on in your school like, yeah, it's, it's not good?
Speaker 2:it's not good that a professor of any school could just like pick out his favorite students and invite only those students to this exclusive club. Like that is weird, yeah, Especially at this level where they're all minors. Like maybe in college, you know, you pick out kids who are really interested in your subject or something and you're going to come study together, I don't know. But even then it feels like it should be like hey, come join my club.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, an extracurricular activity, not some weird summons it's weird.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I agree with you. And then, like, there's this whole subplot where, like, ron is getting on the quidditch team, and so there's all this stuff, there's all this very, very teenage angst, um, while they're also trying to handle these like super real things.
Speaker 2:So, which is sad like they should just be able to do this teenage ang stuff, not the horcrux stuff. They should just be able to be kids right.
Speaker 1:And so, speaking of traumatizing kids, dumbledore takes harry with him on this quest to go get where they believe another horcrux to be. And this is a locket from regulus arturus black, or they don't actually know. I didn't say that they don't know but they they're like oh, the locket should be there. They go to this place and Dumbledore is like Harry, I have to drink this like poison, no matter how much I beg you, have to keep force feeding it to me, it's 16. It is so.
Speaker 2:This is weird man.
Speaker 1:I don't want to kink, shame anyone, but leave the kids out of it like what are you talking about? Okay, so he has to get traumatized by that. They find the locket, but guess what? It's a fake yeah um, and inside there's a piece of paper and it's like it's a note from someone named RAB. So that sucks. And then they get back to Hogwarts and Draco is going to kill Dumbledore on the astronomy tower and Harry is watching, but then Harry disarms Draco. I think right.
Speaker 2:This is important. No, okay, no, dumbledore is like draco, you don't have to do this like you're not a killer and we could protect you and we could take help your mom, because again his mom was being threatened. It is not his fault that he was going to try to kill dumbledore. And then draco's all like I am a killer, I have the Doc Mock and he shows his arm and then Snape pushes him out of the way and Snape kills Dumbledore the whole time Harry was frozen by Dumbledore, like Dumbledore throws him in place so he wouldn't come interfere, because he obviously knew Harry is stupid and would interfere in this situation.
Speaker 1:And then stupid and would interfere in this situation, and then he watches snape kill dumbledore and that's except. The important key here that I was trying to remember is that draco disarms dumbledore on the astronomy tower, which is important because he disarms the elder wand from him right, and later, in book seven, harry will disarm Draco at Malfoy Manor, thereby making the Elder Wand his His. Yes, that's a key point, right?
Speaker 1:So then okay now Snape confirmed Batty and he's just like skulfed off and then it's like all right, it's really on now and then it's like all right, it's really on now.
Speaker 2:and this brings us full circle to my first exposure to the plot of harry potter, when my friend was crying over dumbledore's death in when it first was released. Um, because he dies and this was the one death I knew about and it's still, even though I knew it was coming. It made me sad and I didn't know when I first read these books that like Snape was going to kill him. So I was so confused and like I hate Snape and he's obviously evil and yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean yeah, and then hey, they find out the note.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then they find the note from Regulus RAB.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what does it say, which is very relevant in the the, the, the fan fiction world, yeah, from harry potter.
Speaker 2:What does it say?
Speaker 1:I don't even remember I think it's just like.
Speaker 2:I know I will be dead long before you read this, but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret. I have stolen the real horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death in the hope that when you meet your match you will be immortal once more. It's kind of a fire note yeah, it's very much giving obviously the count of monte cristo it is, it's very like revenge arc.
Speaker 1:Okay, you will meet your match once more yeah, so, um, all right, sorry, seventh book opens. And here we go, we come to our conclusion, we can do this. So seventh book opens. It's like an all-out sprint from there. Yeah, it's a huge sprint. So, snape, confirmed baddie he is. He is sitting at a table with a bunch of death eaters. You're like, oh yeah, he's really freaking bad. He's actually bad. And he tells, uh, voldemort and all the gang that he knows who his intel on when, um, harry's friends are planning to move him from the house on Privet drive to a new safe location and so that they can ambush them. And, um, all this stuff. We cut back to Privet drive and Harry is like, one day before he turned 17, which is when, like, the magical trace breaks on him according to wizarding law and, um, so all the gangs show up, he has sent his family off to go somewhere. He's like you guys got to get out of here. I can't explain everything to you, but if you don't leave, you'll die. They're coming after me.
Speaker 2:The most criminal cut from any movie was the scene where dudley is like I don't think you'll waste a space, because it's like, yeah, they are just children like everyone in this book again.
Speaker 2:I mean, whether jk intended to do this or not, it's like they are all just kids, like draco they're all victims of their circumstances dudley yeah, dudley and his choices, um, and harry and his choices, like they're all kind of being manipulated, they're all being influenced by adults and like it's interesting how they all choose to act once they are not minors anymore. And dudley like kind of being like wait, you know, maybe I'm not going to be like my parents. I don't know, it's just kind of a devastating moment and draco anyway, in some ways yeah so, um.
Speaker 1:So all these homies show up, including mad eye mooney. Uh, the weasley twins the real one bill fleur. Yes, uh, ron, hermione, kingsley, shacklebolt, tonks Lupin I think that's everybody. They have a big brew of Polyjuice potion. They all turn into Harry and they're like when we fly up in the air. We're going to have to take broomsticks and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Like they won't be able to tell who the real Harry is and Harry's like no, you can't sacrifice yourselves for me they're like well we are so well, that's the plan they fly up in the sky, yeah, oh, and hagrid's there, because this was an amazing scene also in the movies. It really was because the graphics are coming from daniel radcliffe. Yes, so they get up in the air and voldy kills hedwig which is sad, devastating.
Speaker 2:Yes but harry's wand fights voldemort off without harry even doing anything weird yeah, it's a real voldemort's wand, kind of like disintegrates yeah, so they get to the weasleys, and moody is also dead and george had his ear chopped off, um, which is really sad yeah there's a new miniature of magic named rufus, scrim and scrimmage.
Speaker 1:I could never be able to say this, scrimgeour I could never be able to say this Scrimgeour, let's go with that. Who shows up and he's like hey, dumbledore left you guys some stuff in his will. No explanation, really, but he's like he had enough time to do a will yeah.
Speaker 1:But not enough time to explain anything coded message yeah, uh to ron, he leaves the de-illuminator which, like, sucks light into a room or like, and then, like, relights things. Uh, he leaves hermione, the tales of beetle and bard, and, uh, harry, the snitch that he caught in his first quidditch game. He also says that, uh, dumbledore left them the sort of Gryffindor, but that it wasn't his to give. So, right, so you can't have it. Yeah, um, so that's not very helpful, but whatever, uh, uh the weasleys are also the wedding of their son.
Speaker 1:Bill to fleur de la cour and harry is like I'm gonna go off by myself yeah like I hate this and he's mad too.
Speaker 2:Like a theme throughout the beginning of this book is like he's finally realizing that dumbledore didn't tell him anything and that he didn't know dumbledore at all, and like he didn't have any, um like information about dumbledore's past, or you know, like like he just realizes, oh, this was a very one-sided relationship and um, he's getting like more and more angry about that throughout the beginning of this book and the the will items do not, uh, do not, help with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're just so like meaningless to him and cryptic and whatever, but they're like this has to mean something. So they're at the wedding.
Speaker 2:This is where you get a lot of Dumbledore's backstory too, about his sister, his brother. Well, you don't know about the brother till later and his past and you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, that he was from Godric's hollow that he was gay, yeah, that he's from godric's hollow, that his sister died and, um, that dumbledore had dabbled in the dark arts as a young man. Anyways, the wedding is interrupted by like a patronus showing up and being like the coming from kingsley shacklebolt, and then the death eater start coming. And then you find out, voldemort has taken over the ministry of magic and is in charge of the wizarding world, and so harry ron and hermione dip out yeah, also at this time, harry has like started dating jenny.
Speaker 1:We meant we forgot to mention that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, that is the best the greatest scene in the, the movie where they are kissing like in the breakfast. Yeah, I don't even remember it's fred or george, but he's just like sipping his coffee also, I just have to say jenny is in. The um is so boring in the movies they, they really killed Jenny, because in the book she was like a part of Dumbledore's army and like a dynamic person and kind of like strong and independent and interesting, and in the movie she's just like Ron's little sister, white toast.
Speaker 2:I mean, I get it. You can't fit everything in, but it's just a bummer she was really not done To the point where you have a hard time understanding why she's appealing Right.
Speaker 1:So they dip out, they go to the street in London and there Hermione reveals that she used the magical extension charm to turn her little clutch into this huge backpack that has everything they would need to live in the woods for months and, um, so that's convenient and, yeah, she's very smart and, once again, saving their entire lives.
Speaker 1:And then they go to um number 12, grimald place, uh, which is the headquarters of the order owned by sirius left harry, and there they find information from rab regularist arturus black, about the horcrux and the fake locket that he left behind. Um, and then they come upon creature, the house elf, who lives there, and he's like I know where it is. And, um, he orders creature to find mundungus fletcher, who was the last person who saw with the locket, and bring him back. Yeah, um, mundungus reveals that the locket was confiscated by him, from him, by none other than dolores umbridge she's. So now they have to figure out how to get the locket from dolores yeah, unfortunately, I guess she wasn't killed by the centaurs.
Speaker 2:They gotta get it back. Um yeah, so they kind of break into the, the ministry of magic, again using polyjuice potion, which again like this is so dangerous tighter regulations on this, but they sneak in to steal the locket from umbridge and then they start to see um, low-key, the ministry is prosecuting wizards who don't come from purebred families. There's like that also, that, um, I said prosecuting but I meant persecuting. But there's a isn't there like a statue now that has like the muggles being like crushed?
Speaker 1:yes, it's so gross and then really horrible.
Speaker 2:Then, like if you, you know, are not a pure blood wizard and you have a wand, they like confiscate it from you and stuff yeah so they go there, they track down the locket and they steal it from dolores then they disapparate back to grimald place, but they accidentally let a death eater in, and so that's when they begin their long camping journey, um, and they're like where I don't know, we don't know where to look, and so they they kind of have to start searching for all the other horcruxes based on no information from dumbledore, who again knew he was gonna die. Um, but they're just kind of like piecing together. They're piecing together, I don't even know like they start to coincidentally hear, overhear things and figure out things, but they don't know anything.
Speaker 1:And this is when ron ditches them yeah, ron is getting like frustrated and jealous and feeling not useful and then he totally dips and so then it's just harry and hermione. They go to godric's hollow where they visit the grave of harry's parents and see the house where he lived before voldemort killed them, and then this old woman named bathilda bagshot, um, leads them into her house and they follow, hoping that, um, because she knew dumbledore, maybe she knows where the sword is. But um, she turns out to be dead and her body is inhabited by voldemort snake?
Speaker 1:no no which is so gross and so creepy, yes no, um, so that's not great and uh, so they have a near scrape with death there. And then harry uh reads the biography of dumbledore uh, which claims that dumbledore helped the dark wizard, grindelwald and maybe gay stuff as a young man and may have been responsible for his own sister's death.
Speaker 2:Um, what do you think about this? I feel like we have to talk about this because after all these books are published, jk rowling comes out and, funny uh, she comes out and says that in fact, dumbumbledore was gay all along and had a relationship with Grindelwald as a young man, and that is not anywhere in the text of the books. I mean, obviously you can project gay relationships onto Harry Potter.
Speaker 2:But I mean, do you think, like I am not charitable towards JK Rowling, so I'm inclined to think she just said this to maybe get rid of some people attacking her for lack of diversity or lack of LGBTQ plus people in the books? I don't know what her thought process was, but what do you think? Do you think she went into this thinking this is what actually happened, or do you think she made it up?
Speaker 1:Well, to be charitable to her, I would say there's really no reason for it to come up like why would harry, just where would dumbledore, just say to somebody like within harry's earshot, since this is from his point of view, that, um sure, oh hey, like decades ago I had a relationship with grindelwald who's dead. Now, like that just doesn't seem likely, especially since he's already so withholding about a lot of important information. Um, on the other hand, I'm just like, yeah, I mean it could. It is very convenient that you just decided to make him gay, but also, uh, interesting choice of a character to make gay. I think, like I don't think she meant him to be the villain, but he kind of is the villain.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, uh, so that's part of it and in even in the text. I mean, if you look just at what happened with grindelwald sorry my leg um, he andumbledore is somewhat responsible for the death of his sister, and so it's like implied also, like because they had this relationship, that maybe Dumbledore was manipulated into doing something or you know, like it caused the death of his sister. Their relationship one way or another, whether they were just friends, so that is also kind of odd. But yeah, I think I don't know, I think it's not like I don't know, it's not like it's not not there, but it's not there, like you said. It's just kind of either way.
Speaker 1:It's convenient and half-baked at best, yeah, at worst.
Speaker 2:Worst it is uh pandering, yeah, and we'll never know. We'll never know um, anyways, just very interesting. And and then I'll say in the fantastic beasts um movies, which I have not even seen, the most recent one, and that probably is where the relationship is developed more I don't know and they're no longer making those, but I do think in those it's like pretty explicit that they were in a relationship. So obviously she continued to double down on that and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. I guess it just seems, yeah, like you said, like interesting choice. But I guess maybe you always saw that. But I do think, to be fair, she could have in this biography like she could have put some speculation, because Harry's reading this biography and it's like pretty, it's not like a great look on Dumbledore, so I don't know. It just feels weird that it wasn't even like was there something going on there?
Speaker 1:You know we don't really have much insight within, like the canonical world of Harry Potter, about the acceptance of gay relationships. We never saw any of their gay characters. Right, there were no husbands and husbands or wives and wives. Yeah, there was no gay parents. There was no like. So there were no husbands and husbands or wives and wives Um, yeah there was no gay parents.
Speaker 2:There was no like so in the world it's said in is like um, during a time where there might have been, you know, prejudice more. So obviously there's still a lot of prejudice, but it's supposed to be like the nineties Right. So yeah, so that might've been more of a uh, it's supposed to be like the 90s, right?
Speaker 2:so, yeah, so that might have been more of a uh, like it was maybe more taboo to talk about or something. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I guess we'll never know, um, because she'll certainly never probably talk about it anyways, they find, they ultimately find the uh, well, this is important door, this is important, so he's.
Speaker 1:Well, this is important. Door, this is important, so he's. Carrie is like doing a watch shift and with hermione and she's sleeping, and he sees a silver doe, patronus, which appears and leads him to the sort of griffin door buried beneath ice in a pond. Harry dives in the locket, horcrux around his neck, tries to strangle him, scary, and ron, who has returned, magically saves harry, recovers the sword and destroys the locket. Um, they don't know where the paternus came from. Uh, harry, ron and hermione then take the locket, or they, sorry, they destroy the locket. They go to visit xenophilius lovegood. Who's luna? Lovegood's dad? Because hermione and her brilliance has discovered a strange symbol in the book. Dumbledore left her and they had seen him wearing it at the wedding.
Speaker 1:And when they go there, he tells them the story of the Deathly Hallows, inspiring it's. This was the, the shot heard around the world the tattoo 2013 for white girls to get the deathly hallows tattoo on their ankle honestly, I think I thank god every day.
Speaker 2:I was not old enough to get a tattoo when I read these books because I have a pinterest board, um that is filled with like deathly hallows the always. There's one um where it's like the footprints from the marauder's math, which actually is kind of cute if she wasn't, so probably problematic. But I mean, I feel for you guys out there who were older when you read harry potter and um, who maybe have permanent body fixtures that you can't get rid of, just in general, like I never want to besmirch a young person to do what they want to do with their body.
Speaker 1:But I will say I'm really glad that I did not get the tattoos I wanted to get when I was 19, because they are shocking to me now and um I would certainly not want them on my body now, and I guess you could say that from all ages of your life. But I would, just for any young people listening, wait till your brain stops.
Speaker 2:I would say wait till you're like 25. Yeah, Then you're, you know it's a little better, Like maybe you might regret it one day you still might regret it, but like Problematic, but you know who knows, yeah, but you know who knows, yeah, okay, anyways, anyways, they learned about the deathly hallows and then which is pretty critical also xenophilias.
Speaker 1:Lovegood is like calls the death eaters to come get them while they're there because he wants to get luna back, because they had taken luna so they had to eat themselves out of there yeah, um again, they're always on the run.
Speaker 1:But they were getting tracked, and so they end up getting caught by Voldemort's followers and taken to Malfoy Manor. When they get to Malfoy Manor, bellatrix Lestrange tortures Hermione for information about where they got the sword that they are carrying, since she thought it was oh, how did they get the bank? How did they get the sword? Oh no, it appeared in the pond.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so she thought, because she thought it was safe in her vault at Green Gark's bank, and she's very concerned about anything else that we have taken. Dobby is there and helps Harry and his friends to escape, along with Mr Ollivander, the wand maker, luna Lovegood and Griphook the goblin. Harry takes them all to Ron's brother's Bill's cottage.
Speaker 2:Man and Dobby is killed. They don't even put this in the freaking spark notes that Dobby is killed. How dare you.
Speaker 1:How dare you disrespect him like that? And he died a free elf.
Speaker 2:He died a free elf. That was so sad. It was so sad. Oh my gosh, that hit me. I mean you should have known from the very start of this book. I mean she tells you that this is going to be a serious thing because the first death is headway. Who's just an innocent owl, you know they honestly, it makes sense to kill headwig because oh yeah the head is going to give you away.
Speaker 2:At every turn you had, you had to bring her with you, but it's just like. Oh, it gets worse. Like you don't even know how many people's going to give you away. At every turn you had to ditch the owl. Oh, you can't bring her with you, but it's just like. Oh, it gets worse. Like you don't even know how many people are going to die in this stupid book. Anyways.
Speaker 1:So consorting. So that's really sad. And then because they have Ollivander there and Griphook at Bill's cottage, they're able to consult with them, come up with a plan to get inside Bellatrix's vault, because Bellatrix thought the sword was in her vault. So maybe there's other interesting things in the vault.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she was really concerned, like why did you guys, did you guys get it? How did you get it? So yeah, and there's something else in there.
Speaker 1:There's obviously something else in there, and so they come up with a plan to break into the vault and steal the Hufflepuff cup Hufflepuff's cup, puffs cup from the vault, and then they escape on the back of a dragon lots of drama which is so cool, very, very.
Speaker 2:This is like the big, I feel like um dramatic, chase, heisty scene in this book, um, or a movie too as well. Um, then they find out.
Speaker 1:Goldie is starting to freak out because he can feel parts of his soul dying which you wouldn't think you could at this point, so split up.
Speaker 2:But he learns through those freak outs and a vision that the final Horcrux is hidden at Hogwarts. So they go to Hogsmeade and that's where they meet Dumbledore's brother, who is weirdly into goats Aberforth.
Speaker 1:Okay, while they're at his house, they have this, this portrait, and it's a portrait of the sister, and he sends her to go do something because in this world, you know, like portraits can like do stuff. Yeah, and they bring back neville, my king, my favorite character in the entire series. The unsung hero, the underdog, is my again.
Speaker 2:It's someone who maybe, like rose above who they were, or you know what I mean like became more than they were, or also.
Speaker 1:I just love this whole thing that, like dumbledore was really rolling the dice like okay, yeah, neville could have easily fulfilled the prophecy. He has a really close birthday to harry, um, but so he very much could have, except the voldemort basically decided he wanted to try and kill harry yeah, and so if he decided either way, if he decided he wanted to kill neville, then neville would have been harry potter.
Speaker 1:Right, it would have been, you know, neville longbottom and the sorcerer's stone, um, and so I just love that that potential is always there, and actually I like that it makes harry a little bit less special yeah, I like that as well.
Speaker 2:It's not like anything inherent to harry actually it's just, which is also a good you know kind of lesson. Yeah, it's like he was forced into this role and that you know he wasn't born to be this person. He was chosen and forced to be. You know, yeah, um, so yeah, I love that so then they're looking for the lost diadem of ravenclaw, yeah so hogwarts. So they take, comes and lets them in and he's like leading this resistance within hogwarts.
Speaker 1:It's so cute, um, and so he starts looking for the diadem and, uh, they find out that voldy's on his way.
Speaker 2:And um, I legit remember the day that the the Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part two trailer dropped and there's like some um, there's some line in it that's like prepare the students or something we're getting ready to fight. I don't know, but I just remember how like hype I was when I heard that. It was like I'll never feel that way again.
Speaker 1:Probably um, amazing but yeah, this part is so like what's gonna happen?
Speaker 2:like the students are getting ready, the teachers are getting ready, I think like all the slytherins leave. Yeah, like why? Why are we letting this house run?
Speaker 1:rampant in hogwarts. I don't know. Again, this is totally preventable. Voldemort and his followers attack the school in a great battle and Harry finds and destroys the diadem Horcrux, which is cool.
Speaker 2:So, as far as they know, that might be the last Horcrux. That's as far as they think, maybe Right.
Speaker 1:Well, no.
Speaker 2:They suspect that Nagini is a Horcrux. Okay, I didn't know if they actually knew that.
Speaker 1:I think that they did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1:They're like oh, the snake is one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they think they have to kill Nagini and him. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So Harry witnesses Voldemort murdering Snape in order to take possession of dumbledore's powerful wand, and the logic that he uses to get to this is that snape killed dumbledore and dumbledore, at that time, was the owner of the elder wand. But he actually kind of got it wrong, because it wasn't who killed snape, it was who disarmed him, which is also a reflection of the worldview that has led voldemort to the place that he is, that he is like oh, killing is what makes someone the master of another person not so much, instead of like disarming someone non-violence versus violence.
Speaker 1:It's an interesting thing, yeah, um. So harry, in a moment of compassion, goes to snape because he didn't avada kedavra him, he just sent nagini to kill him, which is really rude, yeah, and so it's also like brutal, yeah, so like harry rushes over there, he's like whatever, and then snape is like here, take my memories and go to the ponzi, like you have to know the truth, okay so in one moment as a reader you're like oh yes, snape is dead, rightfully he gets what he deserves. And the next moment?
Speaker 2:maybe the most mad about. Sorry, okay, no because. Okay, because snape says uh like, look at me before he dies, just so you know the movies they didn't make. Harry have the same color eyes as his mom and that will never not haunt me because, just because, like daniel radcliffe, I think, has blue eyes in the book he's supposed to have green eyes, but they could have cast someone to play his mom, who is barely in this it just makes no sense yeah yeah, it was just so stupid anyways.
Speaker 2:So yeah, in one minute you're like, yeah, take that snape, you're finally dead, you killed dumbledore.
Speaker 1:And then literally like the next page he's up in dumbledore's office in the ponce and he sees the truth. And the truth is that snape was always in love with lily and, as an extension of his love and she chose james, as an extension of his love for her, he committed his life to uh, basically being a double agent and working with dumbledore and then also, you know, making voldemort believe that he was one of his loyal servants, um, in order to protect harry, even to the point that he was willing to kill dumbledore um to like dumbledore, asked him to kill him that wasn't like he, it was part of dumbledore's plan yeah, yeah
Speaker 2:I remember also reading this for the first time and I was crying so hard. I had to like put the book down, go to the bathroom, like take a shower or something, because I I couldn't keep, I couldn't see like I couldn't see the pages. I was just sobbing so hard because it is such a gut punch, like if you have never read these books and you're just for some reason listening to this. I don't know why, but thank you. But like there's no way to explain again, especially when you're 14 and you don't have a critical eye and you love dumbledore because he is portrayed to be this like great person and you hate snape, and there's like no nuance between those two things. And then snape kills dumbledore, so you know for sure he's evil, and then all of a sudden, to have that like rug pulled out from under you was so upsetting and on the look back like yeah, snape is complicated and probably not a good person, necessarily.
Speaker 2:But it's just like you feel so bad, for like five seconds ago I was literally so happy that this guy died and now I'm like oh my God, he was a good guy the whole time, didn't even know, you know.
Speaker 1:I think like the part of me that wants to see the world as black and white and kind of like make judgments about people. Like the urge of that part of me tells me that snape is still actually a bad person because he didn't do all of this stuff for like the good of the cause. He did it because of his love for lily, right, and he only didn't really care about harry, he really only cared about lily.
Speaker 2:And so this is someone who's like obsessed and could never let go, and so he should be judged according to and he did still kind of hate harry you know, he did like he wanted to protect him for lily, maybe, but he also saw a lot of james who he hated, so like there was yeah, so it wasn't about harry at all.
Speaker 1:11 year old and it also wasn't about like defeating the wizard nazis. It was about, um, like preserving this part of lily that lived on obsession, yeah. But then the other side of me that is able to understand nuance and, yeah, understands that the world doesn't operate and like just black and white but lots of shades of gray, is like. This is a really complex character who actually had the capacity to love something so much he was willing to go to this extreme and, yeah, uh, he's like a complicated person, so he's a really interesting character totally agree totally.
Speaker 2:I think snape fascinates me and I, if you again go back to our fan fiction episode I wrote fan fiction about snape and lily's relationship because I think it's just, it's just so sad to me, like all of it's sad, and yeah, it is complex, um, so I can see it as more complex harry learns all of the stuff about um, about snape, but he the most important thing that he learns is that he is a quirk crux yeah, which from a conversation that snape had with dumbledore.
Speaker 1:So again confirmation dumbledore knew all along, dumb dumbie knew, didn't tell harry. No one told harry um, and so that's really messed up and um. So he's like, okay, I gotta go die. So he goes and tells. And so he's like, okay, I got to go die. So he goes and tells the homies I like how he?
Speaker 2:yeah, just accepted this, yeah.
Speaker 1:He's like I got to go die and Hermione's like no, but she also had already figured this out too and hadn't told him so whatever to, and hadn't told him so whatever. So here he goes and he realizes, when he's holding the snitch that Dumbledore gave him, and he realizes that when he caught the first snitch of his Quidditch career, he actually caught it in his mouth and that snitches have touch memories, and so when he touched the snitch for the first time, it didn't open, but he never touched it to his lips. So he touches it to his lips, it opens up and inside is the resurrection stone. He does this as he's about to go into the Forbidden Forest to meet Voldemort to die, and it conjures the spirits or the ghosts of his mom, dad and Sirius. Sirius is there, yeah, like the spirits or the ghosts of his mom dad, uh. And serious, serious is there, yeah, and Lupin, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Remus is there. He already died earlier with talks. Yeah, they're all there.
Speaker 1:So, oh yeah, and they had a son, um, so that sucks, um, um and uh, he like talks to them, they're like, we're so proud of you, we love you, you know, whatever. So he goes in there, he gets a vata cadaverid, but he appears to be dead. However, the part of him that died was the seventh or the eighth, uh, the eighth of voldemort that was inside of him is what died from the killing curse, and so he's actually still alive.
Speaker 2:He's just like chilling on the ground. Yes, and I think my understanding is that, like Voldemort, couldn't kill him because he used his blood to bring himself alive. And then the curse the protective charm ofly's love was inside of voldemort so like if someone else had tried to kill harry, he might have actually died, but I think, because voldemort had used harry's blood to bring himself back to life, he couldn't kill harry right back in book four when they were in like the cemetery, with cedric being dead yes, so then he's in this like heaven train station, right, he's who else other than dumbledore?
Speaker 1:yeah, his enemy. And uh, he's also there with like this weird chicken wing looking thing, which is, like you know, the part of voldemort that just died in the confrontation. It was really gross. Dumbledore says a bunch of cryptic shit. That just died in the confrontation. It was really gross. Dumbledore says a bunch of cryptic shit that he doesn't explain.
Speaker 2:It's all very weird. He never says anything and he's like get on a train.
Speaker 1:So then he just comes back to the mortal realm and Voldemort picks him up and takes him back to all the homies at Hogwarts and he's like, look, he's dead. Voldemort picks him up and takes him back to like all the homies at the uh, at hogwarts and he's like look, you know he's dead. Like what are you going to do now? And then this is where my hero come to die. Yes, this is my hero. Neville is like we're still going to fight you because that's what harry would have wanted, whatever. And he reaches into the sorting hat, which is somehow just like some sort of debris on the ground, and he pulls out the sword of Gryffindor and he uses it to kill Nagini.
Speaker 1:Harry jumps out, jumps up, runs away, he gets in a confrontation with Voldemort. He kills Voldemort.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he disarms him. Yes, and he disarms him. Yeah, he disarms him and then they meet in the air again. I just exactly exactly this is my question about harry. I mean good for him, he's great, he's non-violent, pacif, whatever.
Speaker 1:But he was ready to kill.
Speaker 2:Sirius Black for killing, for betraying his parents, but this is the guy who did the killing and you're not even willing to do an Avada Kedavra. But again, that's his go-to move, as we have seen countless times throughout the series that he will hit anyone with the Expelliarmus, so that's his save spell.
Speaker 2:I guess it makes sense in that way that he will hit anyone with the expelliarmus, so that's his save sense in that way. But it like kind of reverberates and eventually the curse goes back to voldemort and he dies. And a key difference also in the book and movie is in the book, like I think they should have kept it like this, because voldemort dies and his body is there and it's like, oh, he's just a man after all, like he's still just a human. You know he may have done all this weird stuff, but you know he's also mortal and we were able to kill him and he's dead. But in the books he like evaporate. Or in the movies he like evaporates and his body turns into dust, like you know, in game style, and it's like, okay, that's weird, because the first time he disappeared and you didn't know for sure that he was dead, I don't know, it was just a weird choice, but um, yeah, burying his body.
Speaker 1:His body is laying there, yeah, yeah, so, so, um, so, that's good. Harry realizes that the elder wand is his. It just happened in the book, or just the movie that he like rips up the elder wand.
Speaker 2:No, he gets the elder wand. Elder wand in the uh yeah. In the book he uses the elder wand to mend his wand because his wand had been broken at some point either, I guess in this ending part, I don't know um. But yeah, at some point his wand had been broken, so he just fixes his original wand and then I think maybe he buries the elder wand or something.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that was another reason. This is. That was another reason why the wand couldn't kill harry is because he was technically the owner of the wand the owner right and voldemort tried to curse him with his own wand and it wasn't going to work yeah, so he, he does something with it, but he doesn't destroy the elder wand in the movie, he just like breaks it in half and he like chucks it like into a ravine and I'm, like it was odd people are wizards like they could find this.
Speaker 1:This is not effective, but whatever all right, so epilogue 19 years later. This is eye roll. Why did you just okay? Why'd you roll your eyes?
Speaker 2:I roll my eyes because the names that harry chooses for his kids are so dumb to me it's like what is the point of this? What is the point?
Speaker 1:okay, so harry is married to jenny. They have a kid named albus severus. They have a kid named james, right, what are? What are his kids names like? Uh?
Speaker 2:I only remember albus severus. Hold on, let me google this. Okay, james serious, which is valid? Valid james serious? Take that albus severus and lily luna.
Speaker 1:They're like, we can't think of any name that we don't already know yeah, except people we love that are dead. And then um ron and hermione are married and it's like implied that she's like the minister of magic, right?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, I think so. Or government, yeah, and then Harry becomes a wizard cop Again. I also don't like that. I think Harry, I just I hate it so much but I think Harry like he had been through war his entire childhood. I don't think he would have become a wizard cop. I think he would have been like I'm going to go teach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought he was nonviolent, I thought that was his whole principle.
Speaker 2:Yes non-violent.
Speaker 1:I thought that was his whole principle, yes. So what's he gonna do? Expel the arm the criminals and, um, and neville is the professor of herbology, which is really cute, that's good, that's valid love that, and draco is there too, yeah but not in, not in my understanding of what happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not not my epilogue, not in my, not my epilogue, so anyways, um, it is what it is and it's over and his scar doesn't hurt anymore. And you know, I think when I finished the books, I was like this was the ending, it, like this was good, I feel closure, oh yeah, and I don't like the kids names, but everything else I feel fine about with the, the epilogue.
Speaker 2:I mean I don't love their uh harry's like profession either, um, but I do think um also. I just feel like he would have had a deep distrust of the government, even though, like now hermione's in it, I guess, like they were constantly betraying him at every point. So, but I don't remember really liking this ending. I think it's hard to have any kind of series and end it on a positive note, especially a seven book series, especially one that is extremely popular, and you know, by the time she wrote this ending it was a very popular series already. So I think it's hard to like land the plane in a way that feels good, and maybe the epilogue was like an attempt at fan service of like here's your acknowledging your favorite heroes, um, but again, like you know, it's just, it's not great, but I think overall wrapped up very well, I think.
Speaker 1:As I'm saying this, one thing that I would have liked to see more is an acknowledgement that the threat of evil didn't end with voldemort. Yeah, that's real in that voldemort, again, was just a wizard who went dark but, that anyone could do that and that, like we have not made systematic changes to the wizarding world, like, why do we have this one house at Hogwarts? That Exactly Like why we still haven't changed that. So all of the systems that exist in this world, yeah, are still set up to produce another extremely dark, generational wizard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it's happened before with Grindelwald, it happened not that much later with Voldemort. But we're not making structural changes. Yes, we're not changing laws.
Speaker 1:We're not doing, like you know, deep racial justice work on an individual level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we know all about that in the United States of America. If you don't do something different, you just gonna keep doing the same thing no way really yeah anyway, um, there you have it, we did it, we finally did it and we will not like editing this episode and getting it down to the reason like put this off for a while. Anyways, um, thank you and here we are all right stick to the harry potter fan fiction, which we love to talk about.
Speaker 1:So stick to that yeah, we love talking about that, we love reading it, we love participating in it. Um, yeah, good stuff. Okay, um, I can share a book or two that I read recently Sure, go for it.
Speaker 1:One book I read recently I shared I did a. You know I've been getting reading a lot of graphic novels. I read Genderqueer by Maya Kobabi Cool. This is a book that came up a lot in our banned books episode, but we hadn't neither of us had ever read it. Yeah, books episode, but we hadn't neither of us had ever read it. Yeah, um, so, uh, anyways, it's a really good memoir about, like, figuring out your gender and what that means in the world, and I think that the fear around it is pretty overhyped and, um, maybe I wouldn't recommend it to like an elementary reading level, like there's some sure yeah, but like high schoolers, middle schooler, like I feel like people could handle it.
Speaker 1:yeah, they can very much handle it, but anyways, it was really good. Um, and then I also read so glad I I'm glad I read it so that now in conversations about banned books I can have more context. Like I actually remember like some clips from some congressional hearings where they were talking about this book, and like reading, reading excerpts from it, and I'm like wow, those were so taken out of context, like yes, it's so alarmist and crazy, um, whatever, anyways.
Speaker 1:And then I also read um bringing down the Duke by Evie Dunmore. Um, it was really good. This is a book that I've had on hold at the library for a long time, that I just kept extending and like give it to me again after seven days give it to me again after seven days.
Speaker 1:Um, but it is historical romance, but the premise is really kind of unique and cool for the genre.
Speaker 1:It's about the main character, annabelle, who, um, is the son or sorry, son, the daughter of a pastor out in the country and, uh, she wants to go to cambridge because they just started admitting women, but she gets the scholarship to go there under the terms that she helps with this women's suffragist movement, um, to help repeal the um married women's property act, uh, which makes it so that when a woman gets married, her property become transfers to her husband and only people who own property can vote. So, um, so it effectively makes it so that no women can vote. Also, people who don't own property, which is also another very big issue, right, but, um, so really, anyone who's in the working class, but, uh, while so she goes there, she's part working as part of the suffragist movement and she is assigned to this one duke in particular who is very influential and who also happens to have been assigned by the queen to help get the Tory party reelected, and their whole ambition is against the women's suffragist movement.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:It doesn't necessarily lend his values, but there's a lot of other political factors that are making this advantageous for him. Um, so it's really good and I really liked it, and it's the one of four in a series, so I have the other ones on hold and it's one of those like it's her friend group. There's four girls that are all part of the suffragist movement and each book will be about oh, that's cute.
Speaker 2:One of them's really good.
Speaker 1:So if you like that kind of thing, I highly recommend. It was really really good.
Speaker 2:Love it. Okay, I'll do two quick ones as well. I read this book that is so insane.
Speaker 1:It's called Wedding Night by Sophia. Wow, that does sound like it's promising to be insane.
Speaker 2:Sophie Kinsella Kinsella. I've never read anything by her before I okay, so I read the book I talked about at some previous episode that I don't recall, recently um, that was raiders of the lost heart and I was like, oh, I want to read another stupid romance that's available instantly on libby. And this is what I got. This follows two sisters, lottie and Fliss, or Felicity and Charlotte, and Lottie is kind of insane, like maybe one of the most unhinged characters I've ever read. And she at the start of the book is like my boyfriend's going to propose, I am certain of it, and they're out to dinner and like he said he had a question to ask her and then he doesn't proposed. So she is what does he ask her?
Speaker 2:oh, he just asked her like to go on a trip or something. Like he had some trip planned and she had. She is the type of person who, like, really blows things out of proportion. So he hadn't been like she was like interpreting stuff he was doing, but in reality he was just being very normal anyway. So, um, she's devastated and she has this like personality trait where anytime she goes through a bad breakup, she does something drastically insane. Um, like so she's just truly insane. Yeah, so she storms off, is broken up with him. I guess they don't actually say like we're breaking up. She just storms off and that like same day she runs into a guy she dated one summer when she was like traveling. Um, she met him in greece and when she was like 19 or something, they run into each other and decide we're gonna get married today. Okay, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile she has a sister, fliss, who is like super normal and very down to earth and is kind of like a mother figure, older sister, and she, um, is going through a really bad divorce. So she's already like traumatized by marriage and she is like I'm going to stop this marriage, no matter what. Like I will go to drastic lengths to make sure that they are not together. So it's funny, it's ridiculous. Is it good? I don't know, but I will say I think so. Both Fliss and Lottie have POVs. It's like a dual perspective and they both have like their own romance plot lines. I really liked the Fliss plot line. I think I could have been happy with that being the book the Lottie is. Just she's like the most insane person you'll ever read in a book.
Speaker 1:So it was just hard to like, relate or empathize. We were just like if you could just help me with these stupid decisions, yeah, yeah, then you could just have stupid decisions, yeah.
Speaker 2:Then I haven't finished this book yet but I feel so confident recommending it. I have like five chapters left, maybe less. I finally am reading Actor Age Eve Brown. I've been putting it off because I wanted to pace out these books because I love them so much.
Speaker 1:It's so cute, right this?
Speaker 2:one is so cute. This is like the perfect summer of the three. If you're gonna read one during the summer, I would say this is the summer one, because eve is like silly, goofy, somewhat irresponsible, scatterbrained. But like she stumbles into this job as a chef, I guess slash employee at like a little b&b off in the country and she hits the owner with her car and they start this like romance together and they're both just like funny little characters and they're both autistic, which is really cute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and if you liked, if you watch a recent season of, and you liked the francesca lord john plotline um, yeah, you'll probably like this.
Speaker 2:Yes, because they're just like quirky, they're weird in the same way they're both so weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, in like unique ways, but the same like flavor, you know it really just she does this where she is able to make um romance books feel not like a cookie cutter romance book and just feel like the original have their own whole vibe and this just doesn't feel like other romance books, but you still get that great, yummy, fun, yeah, feeling, and it's fun and cute and light and um, it's just great yeah, so yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:Uh, I really like it. Although I haven't finished yet, I'm sure I will. Yeah, I have to give you something good with something I'm saying okay bye guys, okay bye.