#54: So if punishment is OFF the table, what is ON it when it comes to behaviour? 3 tangible takeaways to implementing a non-punitive classroom management approach.
March 19, 2024Claire EnglishSeason 4Episode 54
#54: So if punishment is OFF the table, what is ON it when it comes to behaviour? 3 tangible takeaways to implementing a non-punitive classroom management approach.
#54: So if punishment is OFF the table, what is ON it when it comes to behaviour? 3 tangible takeaways to implementing a non-punitive classroom management approach.
Mar 19, 2024Season 4Episode 54
Claire English
So the research shows that punishment doesn’t change behaviour? So then what do we actually do as teachers?
What’s on the table when other things feel like they are off it?
In today's episode:
I give you a few ins and outs of the impact of punitive punishment
Why sometimes it seems to really work
3 really tangible takeaways you can immediately apply in your classrooms
Speaking of research, want to have a read? Here are some good places to start:
Welcome to the Unteachables podcast. I'm Claire English, a passionate secondary teacher and leader, turned teacher, mentor and author, and I'm on a mission to transform classroom management and teacher support in schools. It doesn't feel that long ago that I was completely overwhelmed and out of my depth of behaviour, trying to swim rather than sink. It took me spending thousands of hours in the classroom, with all of the inevitable ups and downs, to make me the teacher that I am today Confident, capable and empowered in my ability to teach all students yes, even the ones who are the toughest to reach and now I'm dedicated to supporting teachers like yourself to do the same. I created the Unteachables podcast to give you the simple and actionable classroom management strategies and support that you need to run your room with confidence and calm. So if you're a teacher or one in the making, and you're wanting to feel happy and empowered and actually enjoy being in the classroom, whilst also making a massive impact with every single one of your students, then you're definitely in the right place. Let's get started. Hello, you brilliant teachers.
Speaker 1:
Welcome back to another episode of the Unteachables podcast, and this episode I'm going to be talking about punitive punishment. Surprise, surprise, it's something that I talk about all the time in some way, shape or form. When you're talking about classroom management, naturally you have to talk about all sides of the coin, and punitive punishments are one of those things that really whip up the conversation and it's one of those things that people are kind of trying to move away from. There are some that are really advocating for them still, and I completely understand why. I just want to say that really clearly right from the get go. I don't think that teachers who want to hold onto punitive punishments necessarily don't like kids or want to make their lives hell. I think it's a problem with empowerment. It's a problem with having control over their practice. It's a question of if I let go of these punitive punishments and what the hell do I have left in my toolbox. The problem is that I think as a society, we are moving away and we're paving the way of change, and if you're listening to this podcast, you are a change maker. You are incredible. You are trying your very best to move away from an approach that doesn't work with anybody with yourself or your students and towards something that is more calm and compassionate, something that's breaking cycles for young people and giving them a better opportunity for the future. But what do you do if you take away the punitive punishments and you're not provided with any actionable strategies? Well, that's not what you can do.
Speaker 1:
So this episode is all about the fact that if punitive punishments don't change behavior, what does what is still on the table when so many other things feel like they're offered, when we're making these blanket statements that we can't punish students? So the research does show that punishment doesn't change behavior. Let me make that clear. So then, what do we actually do as teachers? I wanted to just say that there is a bunch of research around this and if you wanted to read more about it, I have included links in the show notes. But I'm not going to sit here and give you a play by play of the research. You can go and look that up.
Speaker 1:
What I do want to talk about is the fact that I've been teaching students who have complex social and emotional needs that manifest challenging behaviors for my entire career, long enough for all of this to be backed up anecdotally from my own practice, from what I've observed in teachers that I've been supporting in schools. If it were all about the research, then the people who come into schools running professional learning based on research alone but have never stepped into a classroom would be far more effective. But we know that's not the case. I have seen the groans and the eye rolls of teachers when somebody comes into a school and delivers professional learning about something that they have enormous amounts of knowledge about. They really do. They go to university, they do masters, they learn so much about trauma-informed practice and neuroscience around it and all the rest of it Bye. Unless you're in the classroom with these young people 30 in a room you don't really understand how to apply that and how that works. That's why I am so passionate about doing what I do, because it's not just about, okay, let's move away from punitive punishments and let's do a trauma-informed approach, because very often that doesn't give us the level of action and the things that we truly need to make the changes like physically and tangibly in our classroom. So that's really where my passion lies with it.
Speaker 1:
So what I do know right is that when we have the most hard-to-read students in front of us, they're punished. They come back more pissed off than ever. You punish them, sorry, and they come back pissed off, and I have spent the last, I think, two years on this podcast, not swearing once and I don't know if I have to tag that as a swear word, but it is the only word that I can think of right now to explain how students feel when they have punitive punishments placed upon them. I'm talking the students who really don't have the skills of regulation. They don't have the skills of behaving in the way that we expect of them in those situations. What I know is the cycle continues, the behaviors escalate. It makes it so much harder for us as teachers and for them as the students. It is just a mess. So the research can say anything it wants to and it does strongly suggest that punishment doesn't change behavior. But what we know is that those hard-to-read students, they come back more pissed off. The cycle continues, the behaviors escalate and they go through that. I want to call it the pipeline. It is a school to prison pipeline. They start off with some warnings, they go to suspensions, they go to expulsions and it just kind of keeps growing and growing.
Speaker 1:
Now let me just say sometimes punishments do work. If they appear to work in your context, you need to know that they're working because of a few things, and I'm not talking about logical consequences, by the way, I'm talking about punitive punishments like isolation rooms and that kind of stuff. If students have the skills to do what they need to do to avoid the punishment, punishments work. If students want to avoid feeling shame or they're fearful of the punishment, they won't do the thing they work, but only if they have the skills to do that. Some students don't want to feel the shame. Some students are fearful of the punishments. They don't know what to do to avoid the punishment. So punishments work if they already have the skills and the knowledge to be able to avoid the punishment.
Speaker 1:
Now, the kinds of punishments that we see in schools and the way they escalate as you go through, you know, as I said, the warning becomes a detention, a detention becomes expelled. You moved on. These are actually designed for the very students they do not work with. The students who need the most support, the students who display the biggest behaviors, are the students who these punishments are most designed to change the behavior of, and they are the very students they work with the least. Why is this the case? When we punish students, it fosters resentment, it disconnects us with our students. It fails to get any bind whatsoever and I have said this before.
Speaker 1:
The core to a classroom management approach that works is getting buy-in from the very students that need that classroom management approach. If you don't get buy-in in some way and I'm not talking about being their friend, I'm not talking about doing things that they like, I'm talking about holding boundaries in ways that they understand are fair, that makes sense to them, and you have got the relationship and the connection with them to be able to balance that and bring them on board with that and they understand that they get it they don't work for those students because they don't teach alternative behaviors and they really completely fail to acknowledge the function of behavior itself. For a behavior approach that has been prevalent in our schools for so many decades, it's been a part of our society for so long, it's embedded within everything that we do For that to be the go-to behavior strategy it actually completely fails to acknowledge what behavior is entirely and there are a bunch of reasons why behavior occurs, whether it's the stress response, activating. Punishing a student is going to completely escalate that further. So we're going to see an increase of behaviors, whether it's a needs meeting behavior, and if we're going to punish them, that's not meeting their needs. So the behaviors aren't going to go away unless the behaviors are squashed and it's suppressing whatever they're going through and whatever they need. So this behavioral approach is completely fruitless when it comes to actually addressing behavior and stopping behavior in its tracks and breaking that cycle for the young person. So it continues to set them up for failure, as I said, increases the stress response. When it increases the stress response, there will always be an increase of dysregulated behaviors.
Speaker 1:
Even just walking into a classroom where you know there's going to be a thing up on the board, you're going to get crosses every lesson. I know this because I've done this before. I used to have an approach to class and if you haven't listened to this episode, go listen to it. It was the episode before last, so two episodes ago. I go through how I had a really strong why for going into teaching, but it didn't matter because my why was useless when I got into that classroom and I had no idea how to manage behavior. So I became a teacher that just did crosses on the board every lesson. I shouted at my students, I sent them out of the room because I had no other strategies in my toolbox. So if you're that teacher, if you're really struggling, if you're feeling a little bit guilty because of the strategies you're using, if you think you're being punitive in your approach, please go on listen to that episode, because it is so validating to hear that from a teacher like me that I also did that and there is another way to approach. This is another way to do this. So when you're increasing the stress response, it does nothing to break the cycle. They walk into the classroom. They see that box on the wall. They know they're going to get crosses. Every single student that I have given a cross to I would give multiple to. They'd always be the students I'd give crosses to. I didn't stop the crosses from happening the next lesson it was. It was just a complete cycle that I was not breaking whatsoever.
Speaker 1:
Another reason why these approaches do not work is because we're just constantly telling these students that they're bad. We're labeling them as their behaviors, they're being punished. They're the messages they're receiving from us, as they're not good enough and we're not supporting them to do anything differently. When we take away punitive punishments and replace them with strategies that aim to still hold them accountable by the way, we are not aiming to just excuse the behaviors, but when we hold them accountable in a way that is connecting and supportive, the game changes. So what are these things? How do we change the game with this stuff? What is connecting, what is supportive? What still holds them accountable? What works instead? It is not a very simple question to answer.
Speaker 1:
If you listened to my last podcast episode, you'll know where I stand on classroom management as a whole. So if you haven't listened again, go back and listen to that last episode, because that takes you through every step of my entire classroom management approach and it shows you that it's not just one thing we do, it's not just the behavior, it's absolutely everything we do in our practice. I can't possibly teach you a whole discipline system in one podcast episode, so instead, what I wanted to do was give you something really tangible. Focus on one small aspect that you can take into your classroom and implement immediately. That will support you to. I just think that we can just take one small step. If we can take one small step every week, every term, even the way that that will impact our practice and impact the students that we work with is so astronomical. So the one thing that I want to give you today to change is just something really simple. Any teacher, if you're listening, you can do this immediately. And it's just something that contextualizes an approach that is not punitive, and it will help you to see that there is a lot of action that can be taken around the young people we work with and how all of these small little tweaks can amount to an approach that is so much more compassionate, so much more calm, an approach that fosters connection rather than disconnection and supports our students to do better and know better.
Speaker 1:
So there's a quote by Paul Dix that says the advertising of poor behavior doesn't help, but routinely advertising the behavior that you do want does help. I believe this so wholeheartedly. But you kind of need to dig into that quote to understand why that might work, because there's more to it than the quote suggests. Underneath the quote comes a whole host of complex things. It's about the clarity we need to provide to our students around the behavior. It's about the way we follow up. It's about the way we embed instruction around behavior into the everyday and I'm talking every day and I said at last episode it's everything we do, every single choice we make can either disconnect or connect, escalate or de-escalate. It's about providing choice for our students. It's about supporting them to make a better choice. It's about framing it in a way that's more positive.
Speaker 1:
So, rather than disconnecting with the students and taking four steps back with rapport, we're striking this very delicate balance that we need to strike as teachers. Remember the connection and rapport is so important in, you know, establishing a classroom management approach that gets buy-in, that works. But how hard is it to establish a rapport with students when they're not coming to class or when they're constantly doing things that we need to pick them up on? When we approach their behaviors in the way that I'm talking about now, it isn't tarnishing the relationship. We're not taking four steps back. We're still maintaining the relationship while still holding them accountable, which is why it's magical, which is why it works. So I'm going to go through three things for you that work instead of telling a student that they've done something wrong and giving them a punishment.
Speaker 1:
So, as Portick says, the advertising of poor behavior doesn't help, but routinely advertising the behavior you do works. So what works instead? Clarity In that digs claim. It all comes down to clarity in your instruction. So getting clear on behavior and what we do to instruct students on their behavior. So very often we say things like don't do this, stop doing that. When we do this, we're giving them no alternative to what we're asking them to do. We're just saying don't do something. So here are just three ways you can increase the clarity in your instruction.
Speaker 1:
So number one is to state the expected behavior. So just say we're saying stop running around the building, james. You say something like we walk and we're in the building. Thank you, james. You are saying what you want to see from the student. You're not saying what you don't want to see. I am notorious. I was notorious for saying stop running, stop doing this. Like it's just my immediate kind of mode just to tell someone to stop doing something. When I say it Stop running. But by flipping that and just saying we walk and we're in the building, thank you, james. And by saying thank you, we are saying that we're expecting this to happen, we are preempting that they're going to be following the instruction. We're saying it in a really positive way. So I don't say please, I say thank you, because it's assuming they're going to be following the instruction that we ask them. So stating the expected behavior, not the behavior that's happening. So instead of stop running, you say we walk.
Speaker 1:
The second one is increasing your visuals. So if we're saying something all the time in the class like James, stop calling out. James, stop calling at your answer, don't call out your answer If you're finding yourself always saying that kind of thing. Having a visual reminder up next to your teaching points for anything that you feel like you're always repeating is so beneficial for a variety of reasons. The first is number one, because it's nonverbal. Anything nonverbal is so much more effective because we're not having to use our voice and we're modeling quiet, we're modeling calm. So nonverbals are always a better way to go if we can increase them anywhere we can.
Speaker 1:
The second thing is it kind of breaks that tension between us and the student. It makes it less about the conflict between us and them and when I say conflict I'm just being something that is needing to be addressed. We break that kind of cycle between us. We're not saying anything negative towards them. It makes it about the expectation. It makes it about that sign up on the wall rather than something that we're having to constantly remind them to do. So when we're talking about keeping that relationship, not tarnishing the rapport that we've developed by having to constantly address them with their behaviors. Having a visual up on the wall that we can point to, having a timer up on the wall when we're doing our tasks, anything that can be visual, that can be a reminder of expectations. I don't mean things that are listed as rules, I mean just random things that you do during the lesson that you always find yourself having to remind about. So timers for tasks, expectations for tasks, expectations for the teacher, instruction that you have, anything that you can make visual and point to, is going to make things so much smoother in your lesson.
Speaker 1:
The third one is to swap out some of the things with reflection. So, if you're saying a lot, stop calling out. You could then and you find that your nonverbals are not working and they're not coming on board with that Go over to them in a private voice. James, can you see your classmates waiting patiently with their hands up, just in a private voice? You're not going up to the student and saying James, you are really distracting the rest of the class. James, you're stopping other students from contributing. You're not saying something negative. You're encouraging that student to take accountability for their actions by getting them to reflect on what the impact might be when we talk about restorative practice.
Speaker 1:
This is also restorative practice. We don't have to spend an hour going through a conversation with a student about their behaviors. We can get this restoration embedded into our practice. Sometimes we do have to spend that time. We don't always have to spend that time if we can embed it into our practice. This is what true discipline is when you dig deep down into it. Again, it's not something like the conversation that you have to have every single time something occurs. It's not sustainable to do that, and I think that's why restorative approaches do get a bad rap, because we can't expect anyone to have a 30-minute conversation with multiple students every lesson, every day. We need to work around that as teachers so we can spend the 30 minutes with students who actually need those more in-depth discussions when it escalates to the point where we need to do that. But in order to be able to have the capacity and the time to really go in on restoration when we need to, we need to be able to address the other behaviors in the room in the most sustainable, quick and calm way that we possibly can.
Speaker 1:
As I said, there's so much more to it. This is one tiny cog in a whole machine that I call our classroom management machine, and this is what I'm going to detail in in my course That'll teach them, which is a nine-week intensive classroom management course. That kind of gives you the idea of how much more there is to it than just doing a couple of things. But, as I said at the start, it is so impactful and it is so powerful just to make slight tweaks in the way that we talk to our students about their behavior. So, going into your classrooms this week, I want you to just make those little changes and see how that goes with your young people and see if you notice anything different about how they're responding to you about their behavior, and if you do see those shifts. If you do notice anything different, I would love to hear about your wins, no matter how small they seem. So drop me a message on Instagram or send me an email and let me know. I would love to have that conversation with you and I'd love to celebrate you.
Speaker 1:
Ok, before I finish up, I just want you to do one favor for yourself. Right now, even as I'm talking, you just have to go and press the button on Spotify or on Apple Podcast Is to just follow the show. If you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed. That means that every episode is going to pop up automatically. It just makes it super easy to listen on the go, because I've got so much value to come in the next few months.
Speaker 1:
I've got some incredible people visiting on here and speaking to you and bringing value to the podcast, and I really want to make sure that you hear that and that you are able to access that really easily. And one favorite that you can do for me is if you've had any value from the podcast at all and I trust you have. If you're still listening right now, please go and leave me a rating and a review. I can't tell you how much this helps me reach other teachers and I love reading the reviews. It means a lot to me if you were to go and do that. Ok, wonderful educators, until next time, have a great week and I'll see you then.