Why Isn't the School Screening Enough? with Catherine Carter

“The problem with the vision screening test is that, they’re only looking at distance vision and that’s not where most of learning is”.

Today we welcome Catherine Carter, a mother of five and a true rockstar who's been  working on state and federal policy and legislation to improve access to vision care. 

After her son was diagnosed with double vision and the school refused to provide accommodations, Catherine filed state complaints and contacted the US Department of Education. Her efforts led to a national memorandum recognizing non-acuity vision impairments. 

 In this episode you’ll hear about:

(9:32) Demystifying chain office's eye doctors’ poor medical practices.
(12:37) Catherine’s advocacy journey takes her to the White House to find answers for her kid.
(15:33) Investigating schools that were out of compliance.
(18:37) Catherine’s son’s Vision Therapy and Modifications.
(20:18) Normal Vision is not a difficult concept to teach to our children.
(24:45) “They were not checking the vision of our soldiers when they were getting hit in the head”: winning the battle to advocate for their visual health.
(28:11) Other legislative initiatives.
(31:49) Join Catherine’s movement and keep advocating for our children’s vision health.

Resources & Links

• Visit Catherine's FB Group Let Them See Clearly for more information and updates on her work.
• Go back and listen to our episode How Can I Better Advocate For My Child? where we talk with  Michele Hillman from Vision Therapy Parents United mentioned in today's episode.
• American Optometrist Association 

 Follow us at 4D Vision Gym on Facebook and Instagram @4dvisiongymvt for the latest news and updates. DM us if you have any Vision Therapy related questions - you may hear the answer in a future episode!

If you enjoyed this show, please rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We really appreciate your support!
Send us a screenshot of your review and receive 10% off any one of our 4D Vision Gym products or services. And if your friends or family are experiencing inexplicable challenges, refer them to this podcast and tell them, “It Could Be Your Eyes.”    

Transcript

Dr. Juanita Collier: Welcome to the It Could Be Your Eyes podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier. Through my decades of work in the field of vision, I have met thousands of patients, parents, educators, therapists, and doctors searching for solutions to the seemingly unsolvable. Challenging traditional medicine's new normal?

We'll uncover that the root cause isn't necessarily what you thought it might be. It could be your eyes.

Hi, and welcome back to the It Could Be Your Eyes podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier, and I have my co-host Jessica Liedke with me. And today we are talking all about school vision screenings. 

Jessica Liedke: I remember going to the nurse's office, our whole class would line up and we would go down the hall, single files silently to the nurse's office, and we would all stand at the 20 foot mark or a 10 foot mark and just read off of a distance a Snellen chart and I don't remember anything else, and I also don't think that it's changed much for most of our students. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. I do remember it being really, really easy to remember what the person in front of me said. I know that. Yeah. Because it's not like the chart was changing at all. And I know that a lot of our kids get past the vision screenings at school because of that.

And when we first opened, you know, almost 10 years ago now, we did, I don't know if you remember Jessica, but we did do a huge vision screening at one of the area schools or maybe two of the area schools. And we found so many areas that the kiddos kind of failed in that we had to decrease what the passing criteria was like.

Depth perception wasn't there. The kiddos were seeing double when they were looking up close. They had uncorrected farsightedness. They had so many issues with tracking that it was just astonishing that they were able to pass the vision screening and. Really, the problem with the vision screening is that they're only looking at distance vision, and that's not where most of learning is.

Jessica Liedke: That's not where most of learning is, and you can still pass it if you're seeing double of the chart, you can still pass it if it's moving on You nowadays too, I actually, my son's school does. A little bit more comprehensive screening, and they use a little auto refractor with the Lions Club, which is kind of cool.

It, it does flag a little bit more than just a chart at distance. But Dr. Collier, why isn't that enough either? 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Well, because that machine goes so close to your face that a lot of times it will trigger you to use your near focusing power. So a lot of kiddos who have uncorrected farsightedness will pass that test anyway.

But that's a much better screening than just, you know, reading the distance chart. We actually had a patient, I think yesterday who came in with the new screening that I guess Massachusetts schools are doing and they're including. Death perception on the testing. Which is amazing. Woohoo. And one of the, the mom was, um, mentioning that this test is like failing everybody.

So she's hoping that the schools don't continue doing it. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We want somebody to wrong direction. Overcorrect, hold on Minute. It's like we definitely want the school some checked up perception and nobody's ever cared before, and I really hope that it's not turning off the nurses to doing the testing cuz they're failing too many people.

I hope that it's turning them onto seeing that these kids are really not seeing properly. And eyesight is not that important as at distance as what's actually happening when you're looking up close. And so hopefully, you know, it was just that one nurse who's feeling that way. But a lot of times it's difficult as a nurse trying to screen that many kids and then needing to fail that many kids with this new mm-hmm.

Added criteria in there. And even when we did our vision screening, it was really hard for the superintendent to kind of figure out how to relay the information to the parents because. So many kids passed, but then when they had their regular eye exam at their regular eye doctor's office, they passed without any problems because the near vision wasn't tested for.

The quality of tracking isn't tested for the eye teaming isn't tested for the depth perception is not standardly tested for. So I'm really happy that Massachusetts has made this move and hopefully something happens in Connecticut soon and hopefully something happens on the federal level soon. And today we're actually speaking with somebody who's made changes in all of those levels.

And so today our guest is Catherine Carter and she is a mom of five and she, her child was struggling. With reading and academics, and he was actually seeing double and the eye doctor said that he was fine, and everywhere she went said he was fine. And she advocated and advocated and advocated, and finally found out that he had this vision issue that was negatively impacting him academically.

And then she decided to go on a crusade to change the laws for not only her son, but for children locally. On the state level and federally as well. 

Jessica Liedke: Yeah, she really is quite a rockstar because she was a teacher before she became a stay-at-home mom to all of her kids, and now she's used her experience as a teacher, experience as a mom, and she's also a project manager.

She's got a lot of. Of really great background and she's using it not only to help her own children, but to help every child in her state, in her county and the country to have access to sorts of resources that her children, uh, were lucky enough to have once she figured out what was really going on. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: And what's interesting is the modifications that children are legally entitled to and having parents.

Understand what the legal rights are because if there is something that's negatively impacting your child's learning and it's a medical condition, then the school is supposed to make modifications for that, and she was able to find that documentation and then make changes on all of those levels. So, I can't wait for you guys to hear everything that she had to say and what her path was, and she's even extended her abilities to help out if you are having this sort of trouble in your area.

So take a listen. 

Jessica Liedke: If you could make a positive change in your child's reading ability and confidence with reading in just 20 minutes a day, he would jump at the opportunity right? Of course he would. The 4D Built to Read program trains you the parent to become a junior vision therapist and provides you with tools, activities, and support.

You need to give your child a strong visual foundation so they can read, play, and take on whatever challenges they face. If your child is too bright to be struggling and getting low grades, or you've been told that in-office vision therapy would help, but you just can't find the time to commit. The 4D Built to Read program may be just what you're looking for at a fraction of the cost.

Visit 4d Built to read.com or check out the show notes for a link to learn more. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Hi and welcome back to It Could Be Your Eyes. I'm your host, Dr. Juanita Collier, and I have my co-host with me, Jessica Liedke. 

Jessica Liedke: Good morning or afternoon or whatever time it is when you listen. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: And today we're so excited to have Catherine Carter here with us and she's gonna tell us all about advocacy for vision.

So Catherine, can you just tell us a little bit about what you do and how you got started? 

Catherine: I am. I kinda call myself a vision advocate. I've started branching more and more into like student health and health in general, but definitely with a focus on vision and access to care and identification. So this kind of started back when my son, my oldest Atticus, was in fifth grade and he had been i e p diagnosed with A D H D, and then he started begging for glasses and I was like, you don't need glasses.

You passed your pediatric screening, you passed your school screenings, you don't need glasses. He's like, yeah. So I took him to our local eye doctor, random Costco, and after a really long time the doctor comes out and says, your son doesn't need glasses. His eyes. Are not working together and you need to go see a behavior optometrist.

And I was like, what's that? So we got the diagnosis, we got the school recommendations, and as a former high school and middle school English teacher, I was like, kind of know the process. So I brought the doctor, recommended a uh, accommodations to the school i e p team cuz I asked for one to get Adam. And they said that double vision, which is what he was diagnosed with, was not a vision impairment.

And refused to give him his accommodations. Wow. Because he wasn't blind in religion. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes. That's interesting. Just to kind of backtrack, cause what you said was a bit juicy already. You went to Costco and the eye doctor there was able to detect it. And I think that that's really important to point out because a lot of people think that doctors who work at Costco or LensCrafters or any sort of other chain office are not.

Adequately trained, and that's not the case. So you know, they have the training, it's whether or not you know they're going to apply that training. And a doctor anywhere couldn't be good or bad or anything in between. But just because they're at a Costco or some other commercial places not mean that they're not going to be able to detect these things.

So that's wonderful that you went to a doctor who took the extra time to kind of. See what was actually going on with your child so that then he was able to, they were able to point you in the right direction there. So that's wonderful to see there. And then also with going to the behavioral optometrist and being able to get the diagnosis and kind of have a better understanding of what your child was seeing.

It's funny because when children are trying to advocate for themselves, they don't really know what words to put on it. He knew something was wrong with his vision and he is like, it must mean that I need glasses. And like that's what that means. It's not like he was like, oh mom, you know, when I'm reading things are splitting apart and this that and the other, and all of these technical observations, it's kinda like something's wrong with how I'm seeing, so let's fix that.

And oh, that's what a lot of kids notice. And you know me. I was the same way. You know, when I was, we found out, we realized that I was seeing double in optometry school, but back when I went to college, it was like, something's not right here. And the doctor gave me reading glasses instead of looking for what the problem was.

But then even when I was younger, I would tell the doctor that when I'm seeing is not right. And so they didn't believe me. So then I decided to make up letters cuz I was like, oh, well maybe I've been saying all the wrong letters. They'll actually believe me. And then he just essentially told my mom I was lying.

And you know, in optometry, like that's a whole, oh you need to watch out for kids who are malingering. And that's what they call it when the kiddo was like lying on purpose. And maybe they're doing it because something's actually wrong and they don't know how to say what's wrong because the doctor kept harping on how perfect my distance eyesight was and I'm like, Okay, but something's not right.

And it was kind of just ignored as me just wanting glasses. Cause my sister had glasses. And so I think that it's great that your child tried to advocate for himself and that you followed up with that as opposed to being like, oh no, he's just saying something because he thinks glasses are cool right now.

Catherine: Yeah, he said that by fifth grade being an English teacher, that's when the reading and the font size decreases, and so you naturally have smaller font and more reading and visual strain. He says he didn't have the visual stamina to keep his eyes tracking on a piece of paper, and so the headaches and the blurry and the jumping around and the inability to concentrate, and then the words would start moving and blurring when he'd really push himself to read.

The work that was being assigned to him.

Jessica Liedke: Exactly, 

Dr. Juanita Collier: exactly. So then you went to the school and they said, double vision doesn't matter. 

Catherine: They said that only blindness and low vision, acuity based vision impairment was covered under I d A or special ed for an I E P. And, and needless to say, I actually took all of my children to get an eye exam after this, and I actually found out that his brother had it.

And his sister would have headaches when she was reading. So my mom had lazy eye. So what I did is I advocated and finally at the end of that year, I pulled him out of home and hospital because his symptoms have gotten to a point where I was very concerned, like he was getting nauseous and dizzy in class cuz of all the work he was being asked to do.

And that's when I reached out calling all the way up to the White House Department of Education to try to figure out what was going on. Oh wow. Like this can't be right. And so I actually spoke to a blindness advocacy group and they actually sent me the 2014 letter to Coulter, a lawyer who filed a complaint for her client.

In Washington, DC school system who actually had vision impairment that was increased by bullies who hit him in the head with and caused a concussion. Oh goodness. And the school was refusing any vision accommodations for him too. And so in 2014, the US Department of Education had released the letter, but nobody got it.

And so I went back to the, my school. I gave him the letter. I walked up to the office and said, I need to speak to the I E P team leave. She came up and I gave her a copy and I said, you are violating federal law by thinking that it's only acuity. They read the comma wrong and leave it to an English teacher to figure that one out.

In i d a, it says, any vision impairment that cannot be corrected. Including blindness, low vision. So they only read the comma. Mm-hmm. And they thought, well, it's only blindness and low vision. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh wow. 

Jessica Liedke: Can you imagine? 

Catherine: Yeah. It was crazy, just like, so I talked to the Maryland Department of Education and by that time a lot of parents from on social media had contacted me.

And I told 'em, it's not just in my county, but it's all throughout Maryland. It's all throughout, you know? And they said, well, if there's other school districts filed the state complaint. So I filed state complaints and five out of 24 school districts were find out, found outta compliance with federal law.

Which is a big deal cuz they can lose their federal funding. It was actually found to be all of them. I just didn't have time to write enough complaints and do the research and with five kids. And so a letter or a memorandum was sent out from the U Maryland Department of Education to every school district to start recognizing kids like a child with cataracts.

Wasn't getting vision accommodations cuz cataracts weren't interfering with their acuity, but they were interfering as you know. With other ways to access visually. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes. Wow. That is amazing. So how were you able to find these other schools that were out of compliance? 

Catherine: I had parents contacting me through, It's a group on Facebook vision therapy parents 

Dr. Juanita Collier: vision therapy Parents. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Oh, we had one of the founders on our podcast a few weeks ago. Yes, yes. 

Catherine: She and her son testified to my first bill that I passed. Then I started working on the Atticus Act in Maryland, which would, um, inform parents when they're doing a screening or enhance the screenings, it amended to an informational bill.

But I also contacted the Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos's office directly, and had a big, long email about all the laws and the school districts around the country were violating federal law, just like my state was. And four months later, with the help of the A O A, the American Optometric Association, they sent out a national MA memorandum to every school nationwide to recognize non acuity vision impairments.

Jessica Liedke: Good job. That's pretty awesome. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: That's wonderful. So then, as far as the modifications that you were advocating for, were you looking for them to offer vision therapy or were you, what were you looking for? 

Catherine: Being from a school system, I felt the most appropriate thing for a school to do is to offer, um, accommodations, especially when they're in treatment.

So all I was a asking for was in large font spacing, extra time, and then assistive technology. But it took six months of actually working with the lawyer, Michelle Coulter, who wrote that in his initial letter to try to even give them a laptop or even recognize as visually impaired under an I E P. Even after the memorandum.

Because they just didn't understand and they kept assessing him for acuity and a walking stick and blindness. I'm like, those are not the right assessments. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh goodness. Yes. Did your child end up getting vision therapy? 

Catherine: Yes. Um, Atticus got vision therapy and actually, In all of this, I was pregnant with my fish child and suffered, um, a car accident.

And so I had whiplash. And so a month later I fell and hit the back of my head on concrete. Oh no. And I couldn't hold my head up cuz I had whiplash and I actually did visual rehabilitation also for my traumatic brain injury. For about a year. Oh goodness. I knew exactly what my son was going through a bit.

Dr. Juanita Collier: Right, exactly. Our parents are always asking us, well, what is it that my child is seeing? And you actually don't wanna know. Like it's not comfortable, but you know, we'll put some lenses in front of you so you can get an idea, but you don't actually wanna experience what it is cuz it's pretty horrible.

Catherine: It's like when you're in college or at work and you have read way too much and your eyes get so strained and tired and the words start blurry. That inefficiencies that starts to happen from the visual strain. Your child's feeling that within what, 10, 15 minutes? Maybe less. Maybe more. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Exactly. Because we'll see kiddos who can't even get through like one page of a book before they start feeling that way For Atticus.

When he did vision therapy, then what happens? I know like a lot of our parents after children are seeing better through doing vision therapy. They're like, well, what do I do about the modifications? So what did you do? Did you maintain the modifications? Or, you know, how did you work through that? 

Catherine: We maintained it during the vision therapy and then afterwards, based on what he decides, I think the best thing for him was knowing through vision therapy and because his mom's an advocate and his mom did vision therapy, making them very self-aware.

They need to self accommodate because. He'll have assistive technology, which because of Covid has exploded that access. Then we can talk about visual strain with that. But he self accommodates because ya, his vision is much more efficient than it used to be. But we also don't want to over strain it.

Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? Exactly. Through educating him, he's learned to dictate his essays or type more, or have things enlarged or audio. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes, and I think that it's important for parents to understand that as well, because what I tell our parents all the time is that they have this. Old inefficient neurological pathway of how they were seeing then we're building this new one, but under stress, you can go back to old habits very, very easily, just like all of the other old habits that we fall back into.

So if he's stressing his eyes out to the point where his brain's like, oh, I'm gonna jump tracks back to my old way of processing information, that's an option still. And so it's best to understand like what your limits are so you can stay on this new neurological pathway and make, make that your new habit.

Catherine: Yeah, I, I, and I think we've teach a lot more complicated concepts in schools than the idea of what's normal vision ish and what is acceptable vision and when to tell someone when your eyes aren't seeing, right. That concept. I know that one state actually has a curriculum that they would teach it, and the Prevent Blindness has a curriculum.

And I think if we were just to educate kids on that, we would see a lot more kids self-identifying and knowing, um, how to protect their eyes and not overtrain them in school. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: That's such a wonderful idea. We do so much to educate parents, but the kiddos are the ones who are actually experiencing it. And so that's a really, that that is an amazing idea.

We need to do that. It's so funny, it's like one of those, Jessica put it on our to-do list. 

Jessica Liedke: Yeah. It's uh, one of those aha moments where my background is actually in, um, social services and I used to run violence prevention programs and we were very big on primary prevention and working within the schools to change the societal conditions.

That lead to violence. Not trying to prevent violence by saying, don't have a gun. It's more like, why do you need a gun? Let's take that away. So then I think this just blew my mind a little bit. I've been working so hard on the vision side and intervention and even talking to parents and teachers, but oh my gosh, why aren't we starting with the kids?

Hello? 

That's ridiculous. 

Catherine: The Prevent blindness group is actually taken from a state. I have a few things I'm pushing for, but that's one thing I'd like to add into our health curriculum and science curriculum is teaching children healthy ears, healthy eyes, like there is no reason they can't understand.

Mm-hmm. And it's a preventative measure too, and a science thing. So cool. So it falls right in there and they don't have to reinvent the will. I think if K more kids knew what blurry vision was near and far, a lot more kids would be self-identifying. Just like with other things that we teach STEM in school.

Jessica Liedke: It all comes back to that same idea that they don't know it's blurry because that's how it's always been. And so everybody else is seeing this way, aren't they? So yeah, it makes a lot of sense to be doing it. 

Catherine: If we taught them blurry vision, I think it would make a huge difference about near and far and visual strain and how to take care of their eyes.

Just like they teach 'em in other ways. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes, and I think that double vision would be amazing. QBI is, so many kiddos have double vision and whether or not they just ignore it or acknowledge it and just keep it moving, they do. Have double vision and they will express it if you ask them the right questions.

So I think that even just giving them that visual of, yeah, other people don't see that way. One of my son's friends, he's five years old, and he told his parents, he's like, oh, when I'm reading things turn double. It's like, that's great that he is advocating for himself and the parents tell the pediatrician, the pediatrician's like, oh, go to your ophthalmologist.

And the ophthalmologist had like a three month waiting list, and the mom just happened to talk to me. She was like, oh, you do eyes right? And I'm like, yeah, I do eyes. And she's like, he's saying that he's seeing double, but I don't know if it's real. I don't know if he knows what he is saying. And then, you know, he was telling my husband and my husband's like, oh, well you mean after he's reading for like five minutes?

Because that's like normal. And no, that's not normal. That's genetic. Exactly, and so, so many parents also think that that's just like how you see, and it's like, no, all of this is not how you're supposed to see. So I think that teaching children how they're supposed to see versus how they are seeing like that would be really, really great for so many of them.

Catherine: And I do think it's something cuz I know there's a lot of things that you know, advocates have pushed for. But I do think depending on state constitution and so forth, that would be a very good avenue for eye doctors to push for. And advocates is educating children in the school system about healthy eyes, just like they do healthy smiles.

And that was started a lot of the work for the dental, which is something I'm going to be kind of. Following that same pathway is the idea that it was because a child died from a tooth infection and then you have all of this stuff for dental. And so I do think that eyes are definitely overlooked. I also was contacted by TRICARE and military families and soldiers on social media.

It's amazing how that happens. And so they were not checking the vision of our soldiers when they were getting hit in the head. Mm-hmm. It was just, And so what I did and another advocate and a military, I'm a military army Brad, and then, um, a mom who's a spouse of a army soldier. We went down to DC and we spoke to members of the Armed service Committee, and we told 'em, you guys are not checking the eyes of our soldiers.

And so they said they saw the stories, repeated these PDFs with the visuals, and about a year later, They actually legislated or put it in there when they're recreating their health protocol for our military. They created something called MACE two, and that actually added to their T B I traumatic brain injury screenings, the VS.

Mm-hmm vestibular ocular motor dysfunction. So now all of our military medical personnel who deal with people with traumatic brain injury, May come across a soldier with that are now checking the eyes and the balance. Wow, that's great. And then we also got TRICARE to look at covering vision therapy and they did a task force.

Um, I worked with members of Congress to get, uh, task force initiated and they came back and they said, They weren't ready to cover it, but there was something there. So we worked on adding funding for visual rehabilitation. I had hoped, since the VA does visual rehabilitation that, and now they're doing a lot of research on it, that that would initiate Medicare and Medicaid and private insurance then to eventually cover it.

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes. And so. In Connecticut, we have had a lot of success with Medicare covering vision therapy. However, then as of January 1st, they down whoever the powers that be, have down coded. Vision therapy reimbursement. And so it's like they just started covering it and then they're like, oh wait, so now we're only gonna reimburse it like, I think it's like $20 or something like that for a session of vision therapy.

So it's like you can't even pay staff to then conduct the vision therapy. So it's kind of like great. Now that it's a covered service kind of, but there is so many restrictions on who's conducting the vision therapy and then the reimbursement is so low, which is like, it makes it. Unaffordable for anybody to offer it.

And so it's kind of like trying to figure out what loopholes people are gonna try to work around before they even, it's sad. 

Catherine: Well, the best route is to get more vision therapists, and I've advocated for this on that Facebook group is to get more vision therapists and professors part of to the nih and also, um, this funding through the va since a lot of optometrists come out of the military, uh, from what I understand to get them to participate in the research because if we can get Tricare to cover it, In that sense of really good precedence and since the VA Centers of Excellence are already doing it and already researching it, that would be typically is the avenue I would think, to get that validated more in the sense of more insurance companies to cover.

Mm-hmm. Which is why I pushed in that direction also. I was once asked at a work meeting what our superpowers would be and I said to clone myself cause there's not enough of me to go with. 

Jessica Liedke: Yeah, us too. Are there any other legislative initiative? 

Catherine: Yeah, actually I was gonna go to that route. There are other legislative initiatives.

Um, the Atticus Act named after my son was passed in 2018. Um, it went from more enhanced near vision screenings to. Informing parents that a screening is not an eye exam, which I think is beyond warranted. Signs and symptoms of vision impairment and at-risk groups who should always get an eye exam.

Mm-hmm. And then local resources. I worked also on the screening reporting bill that passed that same year in 2018. That would require any school district that was under 50% follow up after a screening to work with the Department of Health. All. The average for the state is 34%. Hmm. It's really low.

Follow up for screening. And then I worked on a LY bill cuz Lyme can affect a vision. And I had a daughter with chronic Lyme who had vision impairments until we treated her Lyme that would protect doctors. And then I had three bills this session and they didn't pass. One had passed just complications of politics.

But I look hopeful to get them past next year. It's hard to get a bill passed its first year. 

Jessica Liedke: And you had three introduced that's, yeah. That's pretty incredible. 

Catherine: And I did get, um, vision as one of the resources in a large education bill fantastic. That schools could tap into. And I helped the, uh, parents group in Utah, gave them some of my work and ideas, uh, to pass a bill where they would test near vision for students who are struggling in reading.

Dr. Juanita Collier: And it's just so crazy that a bill needs to be passed for that to happen. When we first opened 10 years ago, we did a big vision screening. In our town and so many, I wanna say it was like almost 80% of the kids ended up failing at least one area of their criteria. And we weren't testing like crazy things.

We were testing for double vision. We were testing for uncorrected farsightedness. We were testing near vision, visual acuity, and depth perception, and so many. Kiddos failed that, that we had to decrease what the standard was for failing. And then we sent out the information to the parents and a lot of them went to, you know, the local pediatric ophthalmologist.

Mm-hmm. And he was like, none of this is important for reading. And he like, you know, started a whole thing against the superintendent and like started trying to take legal action against her. It was crazy. And the fact that most of children's learning happens up close and that's not tested for seems.

Very, very wrong. And the fact that a bill needs to be passed to even ask for that to be tested is crazy to me. 

Catherine: I think so. And I think that's why having something as general as teaching kids about vision versus requiring an eye exam upon entry to school, which is a push a lot, only one school dis only one state has that passed successfully, I think is really, really the push should, should be because it is.

Learning the world of optometrists and ophthalmologists and having to straddle between both of those, I think that's something that everyone could agree on, that we are educating children when they should tell an adult. And then how to take care of their eyes. Mm-hmm. To me, that's like you're screening every child.

Yes. Every year from 30 minutes. Definitely. Of classroom instruction. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Definitely. So how can other parents get involved and how can they help? Like you said, like if you have a superpower, be to clone yourself. How can other parents help? How can other parents join this movement that you've created? What can they do?

Catherine: I think the best thing to do is it is good to do state, but local. I think talking to your school district and your pta, which has a resolution, their national PTA supporting this and getting that educational piece, and possibly for any student who's in special ed working with them. To refer them for an eye exam or at least test the near vision of those who are struggling with reading.

To me, those are pretty low hanging fruit. And then advocating amongst the community of doctors is to participate more in the research because that really is holding us back, is for parents like me who have to pay for vision therapy. We need more in the optometry and behavioral optometry participating in the research funding that's offered through.

The VA or the The military and the nih. Exactly. So that way we can show this stuff works just like they did with chiropracticing and physical therapy. It works. 

Jessica Liedke: That's awesome. It's like what you say, you start local and we've talked on this show and with some of our kids, And their parents, you know, talking to, just starting with your own teacher and, um, I'll never forget having my first parent teacher conference with my son's kindergarten teacher and like how lit up she got when I told her about how impactful even a SL board can be and taking the.

20, 20, 20 breaks every 20 minutes. Look away for 20 feet to 20 for 20 seconds, all of that. And she was just like, wow. Oh my gosh. That's, I've never thought about that. That's so great. You know, like it can start that small. But then getting to your PTOs, getting to your local school boards, getting to your state, you went all the way up to the, the White House.

So there's no reason that we can't talk to our kids teachers. 

Catherine: I even got a letter from President Obama. Encouraging me. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh wow. That's amazing. 

Jessica Liedke: And if that isn't motivation, I don't know what is. Cause I, I want a letter from President Obama. 

Catherine: So, I mean, it is a motivation, but it does require enough parents to start saying, well, I mean, just looking at that letter, um, the memorandum from the US Department of Education is very educating, having every parent with that, with a child.

Literally giving them a copy so that way when they walk in with these accommodations, it very clearly. Explains a bit of the issue of this and will help explain to schools exactly what their role is in this process. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Where can people find that? So maybe we can include that in the show notes so that we could make it accessible to everyone who listens.

Catherine: You just Google Department of Education, definition of vision impairment. Okay. Yeah. The crazy thing is, is that I had found out that someone was trying to reverse that decision and I had to go back and be like, don't reverse it. Some outside provider. Because I was told I was taking away from the blind.

Oh goodness. This advocacy of money, which is not either or. In all honesty, children who are, it's easier to accommodate a child, I think, at least for my son, with his vision accommodations than it was for his adhd with his behavior. Mm-hmm. He just needed assistive technology. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes. Wow. This was a very, very insightful, and I am excited to see what.

More parents can do from hearing everything that you've done and even what we can do in our town and surrounding towns based on what we've learned from you today. So thank you so much for coming on. This was amazing. Where can people reach you if they needed to contact you or if they wanted to see some of your work?

Catherine: I have a Facebook page, it's called Let Them See Clearly. And if you go on Facebook, you can see me there and then I have my contact there if you need to contact me. I am a mom of five and I did been working on this advocacy since 2016, 17. Mm-hmm. And it's completely possible to make change. It's completely possible.

Dr. Juanita Collier: Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for the changes that you've made and that you're continuing to make. And thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. And I know it's spring break at your house and we hear the birds and everything in the background. So go enjoy the rest of your day and thank you again so much for coming on.

Catherine: No problem. I actually have to go to Annapolis. It's the last day of session, and so I'm working on a bill for next session, so Oh, wow. I, I got laid the groundwork now. 

Dr. Juanita Collier: Oh goodness. Well, good luck. We're rooting for you. 

Jessica Liedke: Great. Good job. 

Catherine: Thank you. 

Jessica Liedke: Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the It Could Be Your Eyes Podcast.

To schedule an appointment with Dr. Collier, visit us@4dvisiongym.com. To train your vision at home, visit us at 4D vision therapy@home.com. Rate and review our podcast and email a screenshot to receive 10% off a new evaluation or any of our digital programs. Subscribe to join us for more eye-opening episodes as we dive deep into all the ways that it could be your eyes.