Ep 13- Mary Jones' Sticky Fingers

Black Trans Lives Matter -1863 edition.
Welcome back cousins! Prepare yourselves: the transphobes done did piss Brittany off... so please join us in welcoming the beautiful Mary Jones to the club! She was a sneaky klepto with a purse full of scandal and secrets, so enjoy this awesome old timey crimey story and remember: if someone's differences make you uncomfortable - look inward ;)

Check out our new website www.thegaycousinclub.com! Follow us on Instagram or TikTok @thegaycousinclub or shoot us an email at tgccpod@gmail.com

We love you all, see you at the next meeting!

Follow on Instagram and TikTok @thegaycousinclub, email us at tgccpod@gmail.com, or find all of this info and more at www.thegaycousinclub.com

Transcript

Dani: [00:00:00] Hello, beautiful people. I'm Dani.

Britt: And I'm Britt, and this is the Gay Cousin Club podcast.

 Intro music

Britt: All right, let's call this meeting to order.

 Gavel sounds

Dani: Well, hello and welcome back everybody. . Uh, we have about a week late here, but that's because I got a sinus infection. Yay. And then it was my 30th birthday, so I'm not gonna do stuff on my birthday, and I think that is reasonable.

Britt: That’s fair

 Dani: Um, thank you. But I, there is one thing I wanted to start off saying at, um, the beginning of this though is when I was listening back to the last episode and like doing the editing and stuff, I gotta say I was kind of disappointed in myself because like, I called myself dumb and stupid. So many times in the last episode. And, um, I don't know if other [00:01:00] people find that annoying, but I found that very annoying, um, for myself because I do not find myself that dumb and stupid. So just moving forward, I'm gonna do my best to not do that. Where like, I am fine with being the butt of my own jokes, but that was self-deprecating and not the way that I normally like, so, 

Britt: You is strong. You is smart. I don't know what that, I don't know how that

quote goes. 

Dani:  I is capable. I don't know either, but it felt good. 

Britt: something like that. 

Dani: Yeah. You killed it. All right, Britt, how are you today? 

Britt: I'm alright. I'm super tired, but we're gonna rally. But I actually, I have a rant to start on. 

Dani: Ok cool. 

Britt: So this episode came as a result of transphobes just fucking pissing me off 

Dani: Oh, 

Britt: in our government, in like, my town in people that I thought weren't dickheads, like just in general. I'm like, and, and, and this time of the year around the trans day of visibility, you got the fucking gall do. Are you for real? 

Dani: right? 

Britt: So this [00:02:00] episode came as a result of that. And I would like to extend, you know, because I can be the bigger person, I'd like to extend a sincere, um, heartfelt bottom of my heart. Uh, get fucked to those people. And I'm just gonna tell a trans story.

Dani: I love it. And that sounds like there's some, um, backstory that I'm gonna wanna hear about later or edit out now if you care to share.

Britt: just look at the news, but yeah.

Dani: Oh, the, it was the people that like

Britt: Oh,

Dani: Ya didn't think were dicks, and I was 

Britt: So yeah, you're gonna have to edit this out, *Censored* so you are a bitch. *Censored* I'm like, oh. So they're, they're just. Fucking pleb, so that's fine. And then I immediately started researching this story cause I got pissed off. So

Dani: I love that though. Uh, well, I mean the. That the rage inspired you. That's always very helpful

Britt: so you can basically, um, if depending on if Dani has any fancy editing techniques, you might hear a little beep there. And then me calling somebody a pleb afterwards, I'm irritated. 

Dani: [00:03:00] I can work on that. We can work on We can do that.

Britt: so that's fine. So I have, this is a mix of stuff. So one, it's a trans story. We love a trans story, especially right now in, so like, kind of belated celebration of, you know, the week of trans visibility, day of trans visibility. but also it's an old timey crimey story and we haven't had any like that since our Halloween episodes.

Dani: OOOOO We haven't.

Britt: Yeah. And oh, um, disclaimer, this is not gonna be like a traumatic kind of like, crime against trans people. Cause that would be fucked to celebrate in that, in that 

Dani: Oh yeah that would be a super, Hey, happy trans day of visibility. Also get fucked. Like that would be kind of shitty

Britt: Um, not, like, not to spoil the fun, but it's gonna be a trans woman robbing rich, rich white men. And I support women's rights and women's wrongs. So I'm here for it.

Dani: I support women's rights and women's wrongs. That was beautiful. And also like, could that be more fucking correct for this political climate of trans women robbing rich white [00:04:00] men? Like, what? Fuck you. You think you can make laws about my body? I'm just gonna steal your shit.

Britt: let's, I like that. I'm okay with that. So this is actually the story of one of, well, the earliest recorded stories of a trans woman in America, because of course there were, there were trans women before this, especially when we think of like two-spirit people from, you know, indigenous communities. But the. Kind of the, the part here is recorded, so this is the first time. There's a lot of like, those actually written, written down discussions of this. 

Dani: Yeah that makes sense. 

Britt: we're gonna start with the night of the crime. *vocalizing* Oh, yeah. That was supposed to be Bubba bomb. It came up more like B, sorry. Okay.

Dani: I know. I got it. It was like yours was like the old timey, crime

Britt: I just didn't find the right key.

Dani: Yeah. No, it was good. it was good.

Britt: Okay. So Tuesday, June 11th, 1836, around 10:00 PM Which, okay. Because of who I am as a person, I read way more about this than necessary, but some reports do put this as a few days later, but it [00:05:00] was like 200 years ago. So just like, get off my dick about it

Dani: just fucking deal with it ok.

Britt: We're, it's June 11th.

All right. Okay. So a mason named Robert Haslam, a white man was 

Dani: A white man?!  No! 

Britt: Um, was walking home in what is now like, considered like the lower Manhattan neighborhood of soho after a liaison with a woman he had picked up earlier this evening. Um, and that was later reported by the New York Heralds. That's one of the sources that a lot of this information is coming from. And I mean, so I think this already gives us some background. Mr. Haslam likes himself a lady of the night. 

Dani: All righty. 

Britt: So already he's, you know, he's had this liaison and I'm gonna keep saying it that way with this woman. Okay. 

Dani: It makes me it like I get such a dopamine rush each time You say it

Britt: does it tickle your brain. 

Dani: It does. I'm just like, he, he he 

Britt: Um, so he's walking down Bleecker Street and Haslom, meets this black woman, um, who identifies herself as Mary Jones. Okay. Um, according to the [00:06:00] New York Herald, she was quote, dressed, elegant, elegantly and imperfect style with white earrings and a comb in her hair. 

Dani: Bet your ass she was. 

Britt: So, good looking girl. Yeah. Um, in the 

Dani: Get it Mary Jones. 

Britt: Yeah. The other big source that a lot of historians look to for this, the early story at least, is the New York sun. So I'll kind of be going back and forth between the herald and the sun. Um, but keep in mind sensationalism. So, um, but anyway, the New York sun later added that Mary Jones also went by the names Ms. Ophelia, Ms. June and Eliza Smith. So we've got, you know, a, a woman of mystery here.

Dani: Okay. a woman of intrigue. 

Britt: a woman of intrigue. There's an air of mystery here about her identity. So after a bit of chitchat Haslom cuts the shit and asks Mary, where are you going? My pretty maid. And then just volunteers to go with her cuz that's not 

Dani: Okay. That's not the question I thought that you were gonna say. He asked.

Britt: I honestly, I don't know if he was as polite about it. Like this is like, you know, interviews coming from him. I'm like, bitch, [00:07:00] you were not so sweet about it. 

Dani: Hey girl. What you got doing over there? 

Britt: So according to the Herald, she quote lovingly threw her arms around him and strained him to her heart. 

Dani: Oh, stop that. It's not about love

Britt: And then they went into an alley and boned.

Dani: Yeah. Cause it was lovingly 

Britt: Yeah. So they went 

Dani: Come here, you're my John,

Britt: yeah, this Alley on Green Street. It was kind of like a pretty commonly known area to be used by sex workers. Um, newspapers don't go into detail here because you know, you wanna embarrass poor Mr. Haslam, but I, I think we can all take like a pretty educated guess about what happened.

Um, especially, especially when we get some of the other details. So afterward on his way home, probably with a little extra pep in his step, or honestly no obvi, probably fucking exhausted. Dude. Just had like two hookups, but whatever. 

Dani: but, yo dopamine. 

Britt: He had dopamine rush. Um, so he Haslom realized that his wallet. Containing $99 we're missing. I'm gonna remind you, this is 1836. My brother in Christ, where do you have [00:08:00] $99 in cash in your wallet.

Dani: Okay, one second. I need to look up the inflation of that. Okay. 1836?

Britt: Okay, and in the mean. In the meantime, I had to pay somebody at work, $10 for girl Scouts that I bought from his kid. I couldn't scrounge together $5 in change. I don't like $99.

Dani: Oh my God. You said it was 1836. 

Britt: Yeah, 

Dani: Okay. A hundred dollars in 1836. Do you wanna take a guess at how much it is now? 

Britt: no I don't. Cause I'll feel dumb.

Dani: Okay. $3,234 and 84 cents. Homey was carrying that much money around

Britt: you deserve to get robbed. You deserve to get robbed.

Dani: deserve to get robbed Okay. Carrying that much money around and getting with ladies of the night in shady fucking back alleys bro

Britt: I sound, I sound like such an asshole. Like, well, you, you were asking for it, but like, fuck this guy. I don't, I don't care. 

Dani: Okay. But also that's [00:09:00] $99 after the two hookups.  Like how much was he walking around with? 

Britt: I know, right? Okay. But also he, he, this wallet's missing. Okay. But in that, in the place where his wallet should have been, he found another wallet of a different man, of a man he did not know with a bank order for $200. So what, like six grand?

Dani: he just, he like made money on this deal?

Britt: It was like a bank order. It wasn't like actually cash, but, so remember 1830s, what are these fools doing? Walking around with that on them? I'm like, come on. 

Dani: Yeah. 

Britt: But like, okay, 1836, put yourself in Haslom's shoes. You just met up with two sex workers on the same night. Are you gonna go straight to the police?

Dani: I mean, I wouldn't, but I feel like he's a dumb ass who is carrying around like three grand on this person, so maybe? 

Britt: True, but he can experience shame. So he first actually looks on his own for the man, you [00:10:00] know, whose wallet he now possessed. Um, and at first this dude was like, no, not man. That's not mine. That's not, that's my name on that, bro. That's not mine. And then he admits that, he's like, alright, you know what, I was pick pocketed last night under the same circumstances as you with a little liaison. And, but, but he says he had been quote too wise to expose himself by going to the police. 

Dani: Darling, you already exposed yourself 

Britt: yeah. Uh, Haslom apparently less concerned about public embarrassment, I guess, and just does go to the police after that. He's like, look, we both just got robbed by the same woman. Her name is Mary Jones. She's the hottie or around the corner on Bleecker Street.

Dani: She's hottie biscotti Over on Bleecker Street, 

Britt: So Constable Boyer's like, you know what? I'm the man for the job. He goes undercover.

Dani:  Muh’ fucking CONstable

Britt: Yeah, he goes undercover as your average Joe looking for some action. Um, he's dressed as the John, and around midnight Boyer passed a black woman. And according to the Herald thinking quote, “thinking that this might be the one he sought, he looked at her face and made up his mind that he was right.” Profiling. [00:11:00] That's fine.

Dani: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Britt: But I mean, it was her, 

Dani: Oh, okay. Okay.

Britt: But, um, according to him, how this went was that he said, where are you going at this time of night? And then she says, I'm going home. Will you go to, he agrees. And she took him to a house and he, she invites him inside. Um, he declines apparently with great regrets. Mm, Okay. Um, but later walks her to an alley where she asked him, as the Harold put it to reenact the scene of the previous evening with Haslam. 

Dani: Okay. Goes home and then, oh no, I can't. And she's like, okay, then how about we leave this house and go back to this alley

Britt: go to the alley

Dani: And now will you fuck me? Like, come on, dude. 

Britt: She then proceeded to be very affectionate and that's when Boyer arrested her and I'm like, Hmm. It kind of seems like you let it get just far enough.

Dani: mmhmm And why are you arresting someone for just being affectionate unless other stuff did happen? 

Britt: Mm. So as [00:12:00] articles in the Herald and the Sun both would later report Mary was an experienced pick pocket and an expert in slight of hand. 

Dani: clearly like switching out the wallets is fucking awesome.

Britt: it gets better though. So like when the officer, when this Constable Boyer is trying to arrest her, I guess this like tussle ensued is what they said. And, um, she apparently took two wallets out of like her boobs and threw them away. And then, um, one turned out to be Haslom’s, so she was just like trying to get it off her purse, you know, so,

Dani: Get rid of the evidence. 

Britt: Yeah. On the way to the jail, jail Jones, um, was apparently tried to ditch yet another wallet. Like they had already like searched her and she was still like, just ditching wallets. But, you know, we always talk about like how constricting clothing would've been back then, and like all the layers you had to wear and like, fuck the patriarchy. But like, girl had a lot of layers

Dani: Yeah and she used it, 

Britt:  Hiding shit under. Yeah.

Dani: She used it to her advantage. Good for her

Britt: Yeah. Um, so like in the meantime, the police search Mary's apartment, like they're, you know, they're arresting her and they search her apartment and they find a trunk just chock full of stolen [00:13:00] wallets. Um, there were several bank notes in there. They showed 'em to Robert Haslam and he could only identify a few as being his own, like, for the most part, like, like these are just all kinds of men. Um, so they think that Mary could have like more missing money in her clothing. So they decide that a physical, physical examination is gonna be necessary, which I can't imagine what that entails with like an all male police staff and searching a woman in 1836. Mm. I don’t know. I don’t like that.

Dani: yeah. I'm sure it's gonna go well. Also, a woman who is being accused of being a sex worker, like, 

Britt: and black woman and white men.

Dani: yeah, this is, this is not gonna go well.

Britt: Yeah. So the constable searches Mary and discovers that she's trans, like, and he claims, and he made very sure to tell, put this in his report and tell this to the papers. But up until that moment, he had no doubts of her sex. And I'm like, you hooked up with her? Like, why are you so offended? Whatever. But anyway, 

Dani: oh no. That makes me gay. I’m not gay. Gross. mehh

Britt: what a what a dick. Yeah. So this is wild. [00:14:00] So it tied around her waist with a belt. Police found, um, basically a le-, a prosthetic vagina. Made of leather. Um, and it was quote, oh God, this is coming from the newspaper, so I apologize, but 

Dani: Oh my God. I'm so excited. Okay

Britt: bored open in imitation of a woman's womb mistakenly referring to like the vulva

Dani: OO That ain't their womb there derlin’.

Britt: obviously. Yeah. Um, so prior to this discovery, neither her arresting officer nor her client had doubted that Mary was quote of the sex, of the dress, of which she had assumed. Um, 

Dani: Oh my god that is hilarious. That was just a really well made purse.

Britt: afterwards she was, this is awful, but she was like consistently and like disparagingly referred to as a man masquerading in women's attire because of, you know, transphobia, the 1830s of it all. But, um, they also assumed, and this is wild to me, like they just put this in their reports, Haslom must not have known like he was convinced by this prosthesis because, you [00:15:00] know, he either saw that or what they really thought was he could not have had sex with her. He would've known if he had sex with her. 

Dani: Oh my God. You idiots

Britt: no, he for sure had sex with her. Like how do you think she got all this shit?

Dani: No, she just got that Gucci. I can have my Gucci on Gucci on

Britt: uhhhhh

Dani: Made Haslom look!

Britt: So the trial basically like within the next day, so she's arraigned the next day. Okay. And in her arraignment interview, she's asked to clarify her right or legal name and sex, and we'll come back to that. But that was odd to ask her. Her legal sex. Not necessary. 

Dani: That does seem strange. 

Britt: So in response she stated Peter Sui, I, I may have pronounced that wrong, but I am a man.

So, um, she says she's a New York City native of about 33 years of age, and she claimed to have always dressed in women's clothes while attending parties among people of her own color. The her words or the words that were used in the [00:16:00] newspaper. Excuse me. And she had also dressed this way in New Orleans, which is where she spent a good deal of time when she was in the military.

So in the, in New Orleans and then also in black communities in New York, she always dressed as a woman. they asked, they go on to ask her, so interesting for an arraignment, for theft. But they go on to ask her what had induced her current presentation. And Mary explained that she knew, she referred to them as Girls of Ill fame. So she's referring to sex workers. And she said that they told her that she looked so much better dressing in feminine attire and was encouraged for this reason to like pursue that profession, I guess. 

Dani: Line of work

Britt: Yeah. And, um, okay, so back to this testimony. Mary's testimony is like super rare, not because of like the detail that it gives, but because these interviews, these arraignments typically focused on the events of the fucking crime, right? Like, so personal 

Dani: yeah, but I suppose. Mmmm….

Britt: yeah, personal questions like name, occupation, you know, like where she's from. Those are standard like for personal [00:17:00] history, um, or for, sorry, personal identification, but like their personal history or accusations, other offenses, all that shit that wasn't generally allowed. Mary faced charges of grand larceny for all of her thefts, but the bulk of this interview transcript is all about gender presentation. So you can, you can very much already see where this is gonna go in the public's eye, 

Dani: Yeah, it, it's just gonna be making a circus out of this and like having her be the, the, the,

sideshow. That's what, the word is for it

Britt: Yeah, that's, that's what exactly what they did to her, like, couldn't have said it better. So unlike witnesses, defendants weren't automatically allowed to address the court. So after her arraignment, during the actual trial, Mary's testimony from her arraignment was all that the jury would hear of her version of events, and it was like read off by other people. They didn't get to hear it in her words. Um, and that arraignment didn't fucking talk about the crimes. So like, yes, she did the crimes, but. In the United States of America, you have a right to defend yourself. 

Dani: Exactly!

Britt: And she did not get that right. [00:18:00] Um, I think it's like also super important to note here that this was the summer of 1836, like I said, and at this time we were, you know, we've already discussed like racism, transphobia, you know, gender inequality. But this is a, this summer specifically was right after, um, huge anti abolitionist and anti-amalgamation. So that's referring to, um, uh, like relationships between, um, like interracial relationships. So there were riots about this happening in New York City. So the fact that she was specifically engaging, you know, with white men and robbing white men. Yeah, yeah. So, um, as she's led to the courtroom, she's surrounded by this loud, disorderly crowd, like they’re being fucking assholes. Accosting her, prodding her. Despite this, though, she showed up every day as a woman.

Dani: Good for fucking her. Good for her

Britt: Yeah. And like a pretty woman too. Like people talked about how pretty she was, but then they like tried to make her the butt of the, [00:19:00] the joke. I'm like, what's so funny that you're attracted to her? Like 

Dani: she's fucking hot. Sorry. 

Britt: Yeah. a pretty girl's a pretty girl. Fuck off dude. But anyway, so yeah, every day she was donning these like fine dresses. She had her, um, they said she was in a wig that she, you know, she had done up really well. Um, but yeah, she presented like a beautiful woman.

Dani: Good for her. 

Britt: So this all created this like spectacle to the court of the time. Of course, they see a black trans woman and the victimized Haslam, the Herald reported that it provided the great merriment in the court in his honor. The recorder, the senate grave recorder, laughed till he cried. 

Dani: What the Fuck 

Britt: What the fuck? Like her existence. Is that hilarious? I hate people.

Dani: Okay. So I wanted to look up a picture of her really quick just because

Britt: Oh my God. Yes. There's only one out there, but yeah.

Dani: the, um, the drawn one? 

Britt: Yeah, we'll talk a lot about that later. Yeah. 

Dani: Um, well one, because I was just like, if I just called her fucking hot, [00:20:00] I wanna like double check two. It is, 

Britt: Check, your work. 

Dani: yeah, exactly. Um, it is a like drawn picture, but just like looking at her features and shit.

If they were trying to make her out into this like, horrible man-monster as it's fucking titled. 

Britt: Yeah. So we can just talk about it now. So that's as, as the trial was happening, this caricature cartoon kind of thing was drawn, and it's not even a caricature, it was a, it was a drawing of her that was published in the newspapers and it titled her the Man Monster, which is fucked. But 

Dani: She looks beautiful in it

Britt: she's gorgeous in this drawing. She's gorgeous, well dressed, composed like hell, holds herself with confidence.  Beautiful. 

Dani: They didn’t try at all, like to make her look like more masculine

Britt: No, and that tells me. 

Dani:  Or anything like that. She looks fucking gorgeous. 

Britt: That tells me they were threatened because not only was she black, not only was she trans, she's a beautiful woman.

Dani: Mm-hmm.

Britt: Yeah. 

Dani: And, and like holding herself up in a way that makes her look [00:21:00] of an elevated status as a black woman. 

Britt: An elegant woman. 

Dani: A, as a black woman, they were fucking threatened by her 

Britt: that's why I think the fact that there were all these riots about interracial relationships happening, um, I think that was a huge part of it.  Ooh, it gets me off, gets me going. But

this is also Fucked. So during the trial, someone seated in the audience behind, um, like the prisoners box area where she was, they grabbed her wig from her head and everybody laughed. Like literally this whole room laughed.

Dani: Oh, I'm so fucking mad.

Britt: That's that's so shitty. That's so shitty.

Dani: so horrible. Because just pic, I can like, I can picture it how fucking horrible that had to have felt. Even if, regardless, even if she's trying to like put on this show of No, I am a bad bitch. Like I am strong. I've got this, snatching the wig and then [00:22:00] everyone laughing. There's no way that didn't hurt. 

Britt: Oh my God. Yeah. And it's, I keep coming back to, what are you so afraid of? Does Jeering and abusing this person make you feel more secure, that you're all attracted to a trans woman? Like, is that what you're upset about? She's pretty, and, and like, and I look at, oh man, this, I'm gonna get on my fucking soapbox. 2023. Same shit. Black trans women being targeted disproportionately, like these people are so fucking threatened by the beauty of a woman. Like, let her fucking live. Ugh.

Dani: Yeah. I'm sorry that people are fucking attractive and that people know how to make themselves look more conventionally attractive. and that's just 

Britt: And people just wanna, and the fact that people have the confidence to live their own truth, is that that threatening to you because you are afraid to be who you are. Like, look inward.

Dani: And then you get people who are. I guess I'll just say it, [00:23:00] cisgender women who are just like fucking horrible about these gorgeous women. And it's like, it's cause You are jealous.  You are so insecure about yourself and how you fit into this, 

Britt: fuck the terfs. Fuck the terfs. You are, I'm gonna, I'm back on my fucking soapbox again.  This is the 

Dani: J.K. Rowling, this is to you.

Britt: Yes. Rip bitch. Ugh. Maybe take that out. That was a little bit death ready. But,  um, 

Dani: I don’t fucking care. 

Britt: so I, uh, you are not a feminist if you're a terf, okay? If you're a trans exclusionary, you're not a fucking feminist. Feminism is for all women. It's intersectional. 

Dani: The only thing radical about you is how radically far your head is up your ass.

Britt: Yeah. Feminism is for all people and it is not exclusionary. It is intersectional. And also, while I'm on this soapbox, the homophobia has been fucking driving me nuts too. You are not woke because you have a couple gay friends. You don't get to start talking about the start tossing her on the f slur [00:24:00] because you have a gay friend that's not fucking okay.  It's like a white person dropping the N bomb who's like, oh, I have a black friend. I'm like, get fucked. Sincerely 

Dani: there's No, such thing as the N-word card. There's no such thing as the F-word card. It's that you are an insecure little bitch and like you need to go and look inwardly, and I'm sorry, let's not fucking tokenize people that, oh, I have a gay friend so I can do this. Or, oh, I have a black friend so I can do this. Or, oh, I have a gay podcast so I can do this.

Britt: Are you talking about something in particular, Dani?

Dani: I most certainly am that. I do not want our podcast to be used as someone's little token of, look. I said I was going to be inclusionary, so now I'm inclusionary even though it's not my cup of tea. 

Britt: Yep. So, 

Dani: I sincerely hope that this man has decided to listen all the way up to episode 13. 

Britt: Oh girl, I me- You know that's not gonna  happen

Dani: I know, but it makes [00:25:00] me feel good saying it out loud

Britt: You know what? We will find our people. There are other groups out there who support other podcasters, and we will find the people who aren't going to tokenize us and we're better off without 

it. 

Dani: It’s totally fine it’s just, I am not gonna be anybody's like prize.

Britt: Oh, for sure. 

Dani: hehe no honey. No no.

Britt: Yep. Nope. A white man. NO. Okay. I was wondering if you that was gonna come up. 

Dani: Of course it was. 

Britt: Um, so, okay, so the trial, all right, so it's June 16th, so we're still within the same fucking week of the crime. Like Unreal. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of fantastic investigat investigatory work was happening here. 

Dani: I'm sure. 

Britt: yeah. So records of Mary's trial before the court of general sessions on June 16th, or, you know, like I said, with days within her arrest, um, shows that Mary's accuser as well as the men who like arrested and searched her, they were all able to give their testimony to the jury, but Mary did not receive the same right. Instead, like I said before, that transcription of her arraignment [00:26:00] interview that focused on her fucking gender presentation was read as part of the people's evidence against her. That was their evidence against her.

Dani: Okay. Question,

Britt: Yeah.

Dani: do you think slash and or, I don't know if they gave like reasoning for this, so I'm trying to like put my head up my ass as far as, I can to understand “logic” here. And is it because she was black, that they're like, oh, she doesn't have the right to represent herself this way or because we're also in the time period of it, Or is it that you're recognizing her as a woman and that's why you're not letting her defend herself because you don't think that women have rights either? 

Britt: I think you hit it now. Uh, hit the nail on the head. I don't think it's an or. I think it's an, and she's trans, she's a woman and she's black. 

Dani: So like they're fucking recognizing it enough to oppress her, but not enough to not be fucking

assholes. 

Britt: Snaps. Snaps. That's exactly it. That is exactly like what my brain has been like dancing [00:27:00] around, but couldn't quite like, you know, find the words for it. That's exactly it. They're recognizing her femininity.

Dani: They’re just fucking two-faced. They recognize it enough to oppress, but not enough for it to mean anything.

Britt: 100%. 100%

Dani: Oh, disgusting. 

Britt: I'll let you take a, a wild guest. Dani, what do you think the jury found? 

Dani: Guilty! 

Britt: Yeah, she was absolutely found guilty. Yeah. So, which I mean she like, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she like, she not like excusing her of her crime. Like she did commit grand larceny. Like she was very obviously a thief, but it's the fact that she didn't get to her right to defend herself

Dani: She didn't get a fair trial. That's not fair. 

Britt: no, she's did not get, she did not get a fair trial. So the, herald reports 

Dani: Nor was she treated like a decent human being. 

Britt: Okay, you gotta hear this part though. The Harold reports of the jury. After consulting a few moments, Returned a verdict of guilty of grand larceny, sentenced to five years hard labor in SingSing state prison,  five years hard 

Dani: A few moments. And [00:28:00] you decided five years hard labor in SingSIng?!.

Britt: Yeah. Yeah. And that's obviously the maximum sentence for her offense. And she got slapped at the maximum immediately. 

Dani: Because she scared them.

Britt: And so she wasn't eventually, yeah, eventually she will become pretty well known to the police, cuz she's still back on her bullshit. But, um, which means she does survive that hard labor, so that's good. But the fact that this was her first offense, because they didn't, they didn't know of her before this had to be the first big one at least. Like, maybe there was some smaller petty shit, but like five years. Wow. Wow. So I, I have feelings here. Uh, obviously her sentence. You know, we've talked, I think has a lot more to do with race, gender expression than anything else. But let's, let's be super clear about this. The same people that were judging her were the ones who used her services. 

Dani: Exactly!

Britt: Most of the wallets found in her possession that were in her home belonged to the city's white male, upper class. 

Dani: And were they [00:29:00] prosecuted? Because technically what they were doing was illegal

as well. Of course they were not!

Britt: Oh, right, exactly. Um, and the thing is, you know, the assumption was, well, these men couldn't have had sex with her. They would've known, or if they did have sex with, with her, then it was with her little pocket vagina and not, you know, because if it would've been, you know, we've talked before, like there were like, just like in England had buggery laws, there were sodomy laws here. So y you catch my drift here. Like, regardless of what was happening, these men were not, they didn't have to be held responsible for anything. It was only Mary.

Dani: but even then, even if it was like, oh, well then it wasn't actually sex, so it's okay. We can't get them. No, because then it's still like public assisted masturbation if you wanna look at it that way, which would be public indecency. So it's like, no still fucking slap them with this

Britt: Dani's very well versed in the laws of 1830s New York.

Dani: Well, at least I'm more well versed than these fucking cops.

Britt: Well, okay, so the thing is, a lot of these [00:30:00] men just never reported it to the police, though they were scared of what the conservative public would think. So just, it wouldn't have made a difference. Like there was no proof that they had done anything. So by June 17th, just like within still a week of her crimes, um, the Harold and the son both carried these detailed stories of the case.

Everybody knew who Mary was. Harold was super upfront about the fact that Mary was stealing from and sleeping with white men. Um, and again, it seems like people were more upset with the fact that these were interracial relations. Um, and. During the daytime added the Sun Mary quote, “generally promenades the street dressed in a dashing suit of male apparel and at night prowls the five points and other similar poor re disreputable parts of the city in the disguise of a female for the purpose of enticing men into the dens of prostitution, where she picks their pockets of practical in art, in which she's a great adept,” calm down. She's not like this. She's not like this. I'm picturing like a cartoon villain, [00:31:00] like girls making a living, whatever. Like 

Dani: and honestly like

Britt: I’m definitely not excusing her crimes, but

Dani: she flat out said like she wasn't hiding for it. It that like, no, she dressed this way all the time.  So no, she wasn't doing this as just a ploy to like fucking work. like she, I mean she did, but like also this was her life. 

Britt: And she mainly, it seems like dressed like this or initially around black communities cause they were less judgmental of her. But I, I can't speak to how she dressed during the daytime. I don't know. It seems like there was a lot of blanks being filled here without knowing the story. But they, they didn't reference the fact that she was a sex worker and they were mainly focusing on her as this, like, they expressed her to be this like, eccentric male who, you know, was don letting donning lady's Chloe's clothes at night. Um, they didn't wanna touch the fact that cis men were paying a trans woman for sex. So they, they kind of,

Dani: Cis Men were finding her attractive enugh

Britt: they were, yeah, they were obscuring the story just enough to make it [00:32:00] sensational without getting into what was really sensational about it, because that made them uncomfy. So You know, like I said before, what exactly are they these men so embarrassed about, right? Like, are they ashamed to be exposed as the patrons of a female sex worker or a black female sex worker? Or did they know that she was a trans person and they were ashamed to be exposed as the patrons of a black female trans woman sex worker? And, and I'm also like

Dani: Or that they didn't notice that she was a trans woman? 

Britt: but would all of them not notice? all of them?

Dani: No I'm just saying like, I'm, I'm just saying like, even if it's like for a few of them, like maybe some of them definitely realized it, but like if a few of them then are finding out this and then are like, shit I didn't even realize. 

Britt: Well, and that's part of why I, I mentioned, I, I don't like getting into it too much cause I feel like, I don't know, it's such a like, Dark area of history, but the sodomy laws of the time. [00:33:00] That's why I mentioned that before because I do, I kind of feel like there's something else going on and that's what they, these men don't wanna get in trouble for. Like if they really didn't know, I, I'm not fully convinced that this piece of leather, that she was able to fashion herself when she was in relative poverty would've been that convincing to them, to this many men. I feel like if sex work was happening, I think something else was going on. And that is what these men are really trying to hide so

Dani: Unless they were all virgins and didn't know what it actually felt like. 

Britt: well And Haslom homie had one like immediately before, like you 

Dani: Yeah like you probably should know. 

Britt: like, are you sure buddy? Are you sure? Anyway, so, and there's also just the questions of the why 

Dani: Are you sure? The TikTok makes itself,

Britt: Uh, there's, there's also the question of the why. So, like, some historians question if Mary was robbing rich white dudes, specifically because they were likely to carry larger amounts of cash than black men, which I think it makes sense. Like if she was [00:34:00] going for like the upper, the white upper class, they're gonna be carrying more money. Um, some really on the fact that it was white men. So maybe she had anger against white men. Basically, they're questioning this because in her testimony she spoke of how, like I said, black people in both New York and New Orleans had always been accepting of her gender expression. So some of them, it kind of, reading some of this, like the older studies, cuz there's not, there's not much information out there about Mary, but some of the older studies that I was reading, it kind of felt like a couple of these guys had bugs up their ass because the implication that she's saying that white people were the ones being prejudicial, to which I say fucking duh.

Dani: no fucking shit, my dude.

Britt: Yo. Like does it hurt looking in the mirror? We suck. Okay. 

Dani: Yeah, 

Britt: Historically, we are trash. It's fucking true. 

Dani: yeah, There's not much more to add to this besides, yeah.

Britt: Yeah. Oh my God. So

Dani: Uh, and that's on privilege  everyone. When you recognize that historically you've been the privileged one, [00:35:00] it's okay to recognize that historically you fucking suck

Britt: Yeah. I don't care if you're uncomfy. Recognize it. Yeah. So I will say some of like the older studies that I've read definitely carried that tone. There's been some more recent ones and I'm, that's what I'm gonna talk about as we move forward here. In some, as recent, it's like 2022, where they've really tried to dig into the history of Mary, or I suppose like the history of her life after these events.

Cuz the majority of what we know is coming from the Herald and the Sun newspaper reports from that week where we don't really know a lot about her life besides that. But recently in. 2022. There was a team that kind of dug through the municipal archives and we're finding other information about her and it takes on a much different tone then, which was refreshing. Um, so the aftermath, *vocalizing* so a week or so after Jones's trial and sentencing a print of her that you, that you looked up before and will share it on our Instagram as well. Um, so she's, you know, dressed as a woman as she always was, very elegant. And as Dani mentioned earlier, it was titled The Man- [00:36:00] Monster, Peter Sui, alias Mary Jones, the Man-Monster.And you're posting a picture of a beautiful woman, like Get Fucked. So it's published all over New York City. It, it's spreads. And like you said, despite this monster title, the print still portrayed her as she was a regular, pretty well dressed black woman. And she looked like gentle is something I wanna point out. Like she looked really sweet and I could see how she was able to manipulate dudes into getting their wallets. 

Dani: Very feminine. One thing I wanna point out is, um, 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds, this is the time of like the caricature in newspapers. This is the time where like people who really blew out the, um, The, the characteristics of people to make them look more monstrous or devilish or to make them look a certain way where like this, this was the time of the like political cartoon or the satirical

cartoon,

Britt: well I think it's gotten even more so dramatic since then, but yeah, you make a good point here, is that they could have taken that opportunity to really blow it outta proportion, but instead they were just [00:37:00] so shocked by the fact that this was a trans woman, that they were like, how do I make that scarier? Like, shut up. 

Dani: Yeah. 

Britt: it's, it's clear from the attention given to Mary's gender in court records, in the newspapers, the media, all of that, how people treated her, um, that they didn't see her gender expression as just like, You know, contrary to the norms, but also indicative of some kind of like character flaw. Like there must be something wrong with her. She must be a monster if this is how she presents

Dani: Well, obviously all the morality laws that surround the LGBTQ community,

Britt: ex. Oh God. Exactly. Like queer people are grooming kids. We're fucking not, it's just literally not happening. Look to your churches. 

Dani: Have you ever been to a drag show? They’re wholesome as Fuck

Britt: Yes. So, you know, like you were saying, is she really monstrous? is due to just being like they saw her as a man who found a way to have sex with men cuz she's a trans woman. And if we're assuming that these men were aware that she was a trans woman, is that what makes her monstrous? [00:38:00] Um, it could literally, because that is what some historians think, which I think is pretty fucked up. They're like, oh, she was a man who wanted to have sex with men, but didn't know how else to do it. So she dressed as a woman. I'm like, Nope, she's literally a woman. Because there were queer people at the time. People are gonna find a way to fuck. Okay, calm down. Like

Dani: And they're not gonna have to like wear clothes of the other gender every day all the time. 

Britt: to trick them into it, like, come on. 

Dani: In different states throughout time, like, no darling, oh, you're really looking past the like super obvious one. Like really craning your neck. Like, oh, I don't wanna look at that one. Instead, I think it's this. 

Britt: Exactly. And the other part that get people pissed off, you know, like we were talking about it, just literally the fact that she was a black woman and white men were seeking her out it, to which I say they were seeking her out. How is she the, the oppressor and they're the oppressed. 

Dani: the only way she's the [00:39:00] villain in this scenario

Britt: is that she literally stole their money. 

Dani: Exactly. And even in a certain sense, I'm still like, go for it clean. Like you are the oppressed class. Like fucking get it Robinhood style, but

Britt: Right. That's kind of how I was looking at it too actually.

Dani: yea but I mean, ehhh

Britt: I, I mentioned that there's like the February 22, the, you know, more recent study of Mary's files. Um, so there's more of a discussion than about Mary's life post arrests and post imprisonment. So these aren't gonna be super detailed, well as detailed as like people's opinions I guess, um, as her felony file. But there's still some information that they were actually able to find about her that people thought was just, cuz a lot of the earlier stuff that I was reading about her literally just said, and that was the last, the world heard of Mary Jones. And I was like

Dani: Oh yeah. Right. 

Britt: are you sure? Because I was like, did she, did she die in prison? Like, what the fuck happened? No, it was not the last, the world heard of Mary Jones. It was just they didn't take through these archives. So Mary was arrested just a fucking bunch of times. She was back in her bullshit as soon as she was outta prison. [00:40:00] So she was usually arrested at night in. Women's clothes for oftentimes actually disorderly conduct or literally just for being homeless. Like arrested. For being homeless. Yeah. So from this we can see that she continued to live her life as a woman, even in like the most dire straits. She was a woman, right? She wasn't some opportunist male looking to take advantage of a poor white man. As so many historians like want to say she is 

Dani: poor, fragile white man.

Britt: Yeah. So a actually, it sounds like in total, Mary spent like over seven years of her life between 1842 and 1858 serving time in various facilities. So we already had Sing Sing. She was also in, um, Blackwell's Island Penitentiary. In the Tombs. Like she was in some Fuck yeah. Yeah. As a black trans woman. Oh my God. So like I said, a lot of reports 

Dani: she's a badass. If she made it outta all that

Britt: hell yeah. Well, I mean, she was in the military though too, so I feel like she, she could, you know, she took a lot

Dani: Hold her own. [00:41:00] I mean, honestly, clearly if like as a black woman, Like as a black trans woman being a sex worker at this time, clearly she had to be able to hold her own because, you know, she wasn't being treated as a dainty, dainty, little ceramic doll

Britt: Oh, hell no. Hell no. Yeah, so, and you wanna talk about how she was treated? Okay. So like I said, there was all those reports that said that she, oh, she, nothing's known of her. She disappeared. That bullshit. Just not true. There's a, a pretty extensive record of arrests and shitty articles. So like she still showed up in the media from the time that referred to her as quote “beef steak, Pete”, that's what they started referring to her in the newspapers, like every time she would get arrested.

Dani: What?!

Britt:  Yeah. So this God, and by the way, that's the official record keepers, like all name for her also sh that beef steak Pete was on official records, shows some professionalism like wow. So she, she was beef steak, apparently referred to her ability to [00:42:00] maintain the persona of a cis woman during sex with these men. So it was kind of a, a joke about, you know, 

Dani: Was it like a beef steak, tomato kind of thing? 

Britt: I don't even know what that means and I don't want you to tell me. Okay. 

Dani: It's a type of tomato,

Britt: I thought it was like a weird sex thing,

Dani: no, but like a beef. A beef steak, tomato is like the big tomato, like the kind that like would go on a sandwich like the big boy tomatoes. And like if you have you ever cut a tomato quarters like it, it's looking a little like, 

Britt: no dude. I was thinking it was more just referring to the leather thing that she carried that was like literally made out 

Dani: oh that makes sense too. Well then I'm gonna have to cut out all this tomato talk so I don't look stupid

Britt: it, leave it. That's. That's gold. No, you're not stupid

Dani: As I'm growing some

Britt: You is smart. You is funny

Dani: As I'm growing some beef steak tomatoes upstairs right now. 

Britt: You're just, Dani's just a little kitchen witch. All right. That's just as a frame of mind that she has about everything, and I think that's very pure. So

Dani: That is true. That is what I aim to be. 

Britt: that is what you aim to be. So there's all these shitty articles. Like [00:43:00] I said, they refer to her as Bu Steak Pete, which is fucked. Um, but it does show that she was well known by the police through the 1850s. So well past that original crime. And also as a number of different female names, always dressed as a woman. Cuz you know, she, she loved an alias. So 

Dani: Wait, you said into the 1850s. In 1836, when she was first tried, she said she was 33, wasn't it? 

Britt: Mm-hmm. 

Dani: if we're all the way into the girl, get it. Okay. 

Britt: Mm-hmm. 

Dani: Menopause, who?

Britt: Jesus. So, um, like I said before, you have these shitty historians who look at her gender expression as just a way of, you know, who they're calling a man. Cuz by the way, they misgendered her the entire time, um, to have sex with other men. But if she was supposedly using that device, what sexual gratification is she getting outta That is my question. I don't think it's a little trick. I think that's like we were talking about, we kind of like broached the [00:44:00] subject already. There's a larger discourse around this in the culture today. Trans people aren't cis people in disguises trying to fucking spy on you in the bathroom or beat you at sports. Don't be a fuck. All right.

Dani: Honestly, if you are that fucking afraid that a trans person is going to beat you in your sport again, look inward, 

Britt: Also, okay. Some of. 

Dani: Does that mean that you just don't think you are good enough? If you wanna be the very best, the best I ever what? Okay, then like then do the work. 

Britt: Okay. I also, I sent my partner a TikTok the other day where a guy was saying that Joe Rogan is trans, and that's probably gonna get me canceled, but, 

Dani: No, I saw that TikTok and I was like yes!

Britt: You know what I'm talking about. So like he, the points he obviously, he was trying to be like inflammatory. {Dani: I sent that to you} No, I think I sent it to you, bitch. I think

Dani: That’s funny. We probably sent it back and forth,

Britt: probably we, I've probably did that before where I've been like scrolling through, I'm like, oh, I've seen this to Dani. And then I realize I'm like scrolling through the ones that you sent me. But anyway, [00:45:00] um, he, he, he was trying to be inflammatory before bringing up Joe Rogan, obviously, but he was talking about the fact that men used testosterone to reach some kind of like gender euphoria, you know, like 

to feel 

Dani:  Gender affirming 

Britt: Thank you. Gender affirming care to feel that euphoric, like they feel good in their bodies. How is it any different than a trans man using testosterone to have gender affirming care?

Dani: instead of snaps. Right now I'm literally waving, um, my trans flag that a student gave me

Britt: Dani's running around with it, like tied around her 

Dani: I'm, I'm like. Well, no, it's a little tiny baby one, but I'm literally just like sitting here waving my trans flag like solidarity.

Britt: oh man.

Dani: And I will not stop. 

Britt: So, I don't know, people are dicks, but I think, you know, I've already proved it. I feel like I have proved it that those histories are freaking stupid. But another point that I think disproves the idea that she was just this cis person taking advantage is that court and census records show that Mary was a skilled crafts person. [00:46:00] So she actually, like, she could have been, you know, a working, a worker of some sort. Like she could have chosen to work if sh if she was a cis man, she could have chosen to work as a cis man and make an income, but she didn't because it's not who she fucking was. 

Dani: Exactlyyyyyy

Britt: And also, Also cis male sex workers fucking exist. Like if that's how she wanted to get business, she could have gotten business. Okay. 

Dani: Exactlyyyyyy She coulda fuckin done it

Britt: But she  didn't, she chose to live as a woman because she's a woman. So in that more recent study that was considerably less annoying, researchers were wondering like, why the fuck Mary wouldn't leave New York City? Like that was what they were held up on is like, girl, you like, these people know you and they're very much what to get you, sweetie. Like, why do you keep doing shit here? But I think this is actually where we get some like, pretty cool insight into her personal life finally, other than just like the caricatures that are painted of her, um, we know from the trial that she had, you know, female sex worker friends and other like criminal type friends that she kind of like were in her circle.[00:47:00] Just cuz as part of the lifestyle considered criminal. Um, but it turns out she had some other close connections in the area, like, and at least two really close relationships during her lifetime. One was with a white man named John Williams. Alias Joseph Linus because he was also a thief. He got arrested with her in 1844. Little Bonnie Clyde action.

Dani: Okayyy

Britt:  Um, and the other was a black woman named Betsy who was her wife. According to Census records, they were married in 1855.

Dani: eee eee wiiiife?

Britt: Are you okay? What just happened?

Dani: I'm just, I'm, I, I was a very awkward

Britt: You were sending me a picture of your trans flag. You were not listening. I just got it on my phone. You like little shit.

Dani: no, that got sent a, a little bit ago this, I was like awkward squealing. Cause I was very excited about her having a wife

Britt: Oh, none of that sound came through.

Dani: Yeah. It was just, it was very weird and squeaky, I'm sorry, sinus infection

Britt: Oh yeah, you're still getting over that sinus infection. Um, and also in an 1848 case file from, we get another arrested [00:48:00] indictment for pickpocketing. Cause our girl just kept going. Um, so Pickpocketing and John, we see the last time Mary identifies herself on an official record. It wasn't this whole like, to us, your gender tell us what's in your pants bullshit. Like it wasn't in her arraignment trial or arraignment before her trial. Instead it was just literally like, what's your name? So she identifies herself on an official record as a woman, but she gives another alias. So this time around, they weren't focused on her gender, they just like, literally she had to identify herself.

So she says, I'm Julia Johnson. I was born in Jersey. I'm 27 years old, so she shaped a few years old, more than a few years off. 

Dani: Just a few.

Britt: I am married, my husband is God on a trading voyage to New Orleans and other places. I live in the rear of number 70 or 72 Sullivan Street and do a day's work for a living like that. Seems like a very rehearsed story, sweetie. Mary Mary Mary always on her bullshit. 

Dani: Also, I find it weird that it's 70 or 72. Like are you not sure your address, Love? 

Britt: Yeah, so her interaction with the man she robbed was the main subject of the [00:49:00] interview, which is like, yeah, it fucking should be, right? Like, actually talk about the crime. Um, there weren't any references to how she was dressed. Her gender presentation, how long she had dressed or identified as Julia. It was literally just, let's talk about the crime. Cause that's what we're here to do. Um, which means she was passing again. So, yeah, that's, it's a short one because there's just not as much known about Mary, but she was a complicated gal just trying to live her truth. Except, except for when she lied about her truth with all the aliases. But she was always a woman, and you know, she's just trying to make a living. Just let her live. Damn it. Let her do her sex work.

Dani: Just let her live her life. 

Britt: Decriminalize sex work. I'm gonna get up on another soapbox while I'm on it today

Dani: Yes. Wait, Wait, wait, Okay. I haven't, I haven't had our sponsor yet, so *glass clink* fucking cheers to that decriminalize sex work.

Britt: Yes. But yeah, it's a, it's a short one. Usually I have like a lot of baling to do, but this one we just don't know a lot about. Mary, she was a, a, a gal of mystery. [00:50:00] I wish I knew more about, 

Dani: I like her story. 

Britt: I know I wish, I wish history wasn't so like racist and transphobic cuz I would really

Dani: Homophobic? 

Britt: love history homophobic, tm. But I, I would love to know more about like Mary's formative years. That, that's always so fascinating to me. Like people we talk about when we talk about their, like their childhood. I'm like that. Tell me your childhood trauma, like five minutes into meeting someone.

Dani: Oh my gosh. That is, that is literally us

Britt: Yeah. Okay. I 

Dani: you want, do you wanna hear a little bit of mine so that you feel more comfortable here? Here's a little blurb of something that you're gonna find salacious, but I'm like, this is nothing 

Britt: okay. 

Dani: But I’m comfortable so that you don't actually know anything, so that I feel like I'm sharing, but that I'm actually sharing nothing.

Britt: yes, yes, yes. Okay. Couple things about that. When I do that, I feel like people always think I'm trying to one up them, but really I'm just like trying to make them more comfortable by being like, look, I can relate to you. But then other times I'll tell a story like this happened with my old coworkers, like where I used to work like a year ago, all the time, where I would like tell a story and then laugh, and they'd look at me and they'd be like, bitch, are you okay?[00:51:00] And I'd be like, no. Now that you're asking, I feel like maybe I'm not.

Dani: Oh my God. I would do that all the time. And so far, I mean, like, not in a, like, oh, I don't have friends, but so far I'm not really making friends at my job. But, um, it, 

Britt: I think it's the nature of your position now where you're just 

Dani: yeah, I don't sit near anyone, so like, it, it's, it's genuinely hard for me to actually like, make connections throughout the day, which, like, I'm not upset about this. I'm still feeling like I'm on track, like I'm at a good spot, 

Britt: That's good. Yeah. 

Dani: so far I have not trauma dumped on anyone. Even a little

Britt: Which is good.

Dani: bit. Even even like something where I'm like, oh, I wouldn't consider that trauma dumping, but the average person would be like, you would tell just some person that,

Britt: Okay. I was gonna mention this before too. Like I know I always go back to, I saw a TikTok, but I saw TikTok where it was like, oh, 

Dani: What are we gonna do when it's banned? Like we're gonna have so much time for activities,

Britt: fuck that. But it was like, uh, when you, when your two friends are siblings who are trauma dumping and they're going back and forth, they're like, do you remember that [00:52:00] one time mom ran, ran over the dog? And they're like, they just go back and forth like, oh bro, I forgot about that. And the friend's just sitting in between them like the book. And I feel like that's how our two best friends feel when we talk.

Dani: dude, when we have our family vacations and then we're like, okay, one second trauma dump, and then we go on for a half hour and they're like, you guys? Okay. 

Britt: Yeah. Oh my God, that's so funny

Dani: Sorry guys. 

Britt: Oh, speaking of TikTok, Cousins, we were just zoning out, leaving the rest of you out for a minute there. Um, we made a corny fucking TikTok and it's super fun. Um, it's @theGayCousinClub, just like our Instagram @theGayCousinClub. And also our little, our little tech guru Dani made a website.

Dani: Website, guys. So, yeah, it's um, just literally thegaycousinclub.com. Uh, pretty fucking

simple. I mean, not like

Britt: there'll be more on 

Dani: ton of stuff on there. But we’ll get more

Britt: there'll be more on there eventually, but we kind of just wanted, like we talked about being more Googleable like when we tell people like, Hey, we have this silly little podcast. Um, then they can actually find it. And so far it's working between the [00:53:00] TikTok and the website Bec the TikTok. But the, between the tech TikTak and the website, cuz um, we have like, we haven't published anything in a while cuz you know, Dani died again, but, 

Dani: But we've had more consistent viewing, which is 

Britt: yeah, but we've had more people like downloading and stuff, so that's, that's super fun.

Dani: And I do wanna say there is a merch link on the website that is not live. That's just because I am being hopeful that at some point I'm gonna convince Brittany to let me make a bunch of really stupid stickers and shit and sell it to the five people that would actually buy our shit.

Britt: I think it's so, it's, the stuff she's made is so fun and so cute, but I'm just like, I li literally it's gonna be our, like, few friends buying it and not even them. Cuz I would tell our friends like, don't spend your money on this shit dummy. Like, so I don't know 

Dani: I wouldn't, I'd be like, buy my shit. I'm hilarious. 

Britt: if there's anybody out there who recently bought us on TikTok and you're actually enjoying yourself and you're gonna come back for more, like, [00:54:00] please state we love you so much. I don't always rant. That's a lie. I rant a lot. I'm so, so sorry. 

Dani: We do. It's pretty much what we do. 

Britt: But if you enjoy it here and you want to be one of our gay cousins, um, please stick around and then maybe I'll let Dani make some merch. I don't know. I feel very narcissistic when we're like, we have merged. Like what the, who the fuck do we think we are? We have 13 episodes. We don't even have 13 episodes. This is has not been published yet.

Dani: I don't know, I made some pretty funny stickers and I just wanna buy that shit and stick it on my water bottle. So like that's all I'm looking for here

Britt: Dani wants to sell merch to her. You wanna buy your you dumb ass

Dani: Yes. I want to buy my own merch.

Britt: I don’t mean that Dani. I do not think you are a stupid or a dumb person, but if you're spending money on something that you created,

Dani: Well, I would have to spend money on it anyway. Brittany 

Britt: child 

Dani: to get it.

Britt: I Capitalism, 

Dani: Capitalism 

Britt: should I get another soapbox?

Dani: no, not, I feel like we'll probably have an episode where that'll be more prevalent, but, um, oh, here's a tidbit that I'm definitely gonna edit out. 

Britt: Okay. If, if Dani had, if Dani did edit out that [00:55:00] first part, she just told me that her therapist started listening to our podcast and I feel like it's gonna explain so much about who you are. I love that. Aw, that's so cool. We love a supportive, the therapist. Oh, you know what I'm thinking of? Not to change subjects here, but going back to what I said right before this, like to the new people that are here from TikTok, we appreciate you for one, but then two. If they don't know the gay cousin club, like that whole thing, how that started, which I'm assuming they do, cuz if you're listening to us you're probably queer, but like 

Dani: Well, and it's in our first episode and in our like show notes and everything

Britt: Yeah. But I don't know, not every, not everybody is as like, you know, point abc like you are where you have to start from the beginning Dani still working on, um, and that's why we drink. Like, she will not jump out of order to get up to speed with me like she's going from the first episode. But 

Dani: We have like 24 episodes left. I'm almost there

Britt: they're, they're excellent. I love Em and Christine, but um, so it's the whole like, you know, you're sitting around the family reunion, everybody has a gay cousin. You don't know who the gay cousin is, you're obviously the gay cousin. Um, Dani and I are both the gay cousin, so that is why [00:56:00] we are here. Welcome other Cousins.

Dani: Yes. And yes, we are sisters, but we're also the gay cousins, 

Britt: Yeah. Cause we have  cousins that was also, that was a pa also a very like confusing person. Somebody who doesn't tell you, which tells you like they are not a queer person. Cause they didn't get the joke. But that's okay. That's okay. We are, we're getting very mad. It's been like 10 minutes of us just straight babbling. So let's wrap this shit up, huh?

Dani: That's okay. Um, also, I did send you the picture of my trans flag and my queer duck. Um, both of those are from two separate students, both of them non-binary students. 

Britt: I love that. 

Dani: so that's my non-bar, non-binary duck and my trans flag that I took with me when I left the classroom because they made me very happy. So that's why they had to be front and center for this episode. 

Britt: we dedicate this to those little enbys.

Dani: Oh, my little babies, I miss them. My little theybies.

Britt: They're little theybies. 

Dani: yes. But [00:57:00] yeah, this was awesome and I really hope that you guys are enjoying us still. And you know, check out our website if you want, um, thegaycousinclub.com. That feels really

fun to say. 

Britt: And yeah, that, that has links to all of our socials. So you could just go there and,  you know, then go look at the funny TikTok scene he's been making and I've been posting, I can only take credit for the captions cuz I have not had time to make tos and Dani has been having lots of fun, so.

Dani: I I have been having lots of fun. I haven't been sleeping, but I've been having lots of fun. Um, but also if you don't wanna go to the website, our socials are, TikTok and Instagram are both @theGayCousinClub. Or you can shoot us an email at tgccpod@gmail.com. Um, you know, leave us some reviews, leave us comments, do whatever you want, but keep listening and keep being awesome.

Britt: Yep. So I think it's time to call this meeting to an end meeting Adjourned.

 *Gavel sounds*

Britt: Love you. Bye. 

Dani: Bye. Love you.

[00:58:00] 

Outro music