Josh & Dane took a field trip up to Tempe, Arizona to spend a day with Pivot Cycles’ President (Bryan Mason) and Factory Field Rep (Bill Larson). The day included a fun ride on Pivot eMTBs at the amazing Hawes Trail System, grabbing lunch at Someburros, touring the Pivot factory, meeting many of the Pivot team in various departments, and recording this episode with Bryan.
The episode is centered around all things “Pivot”… including design, rapid prototyping, product testing, manufacturing in Asia, quality control, warranties, marketing, the race team, eMTB legislation, funding trail maintenance, paying employees to bike commute, always ensuring their facility has great trails in the backyard, their history, and of course the bikes.
Tough questions were asked. Each was answered.
We knew that Pivot made great bikes. After spending a day with Bryan, touring their facility, and meeting many of their passionate and capable employees… we are starting to see how Pivot is able to consistently put out great products.
As they say, you can tell a lot about a company based on the quality of its leadership.
Pivot Cycles:
https://www.pivotcycles.com/en/bikes/
Hawes Trail System:
https://www.trailforks.com/region/hawes/
Listen to Mountain Cog
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Other Podcast Sites
Socials
Instagram
Facebook
Email
mountaincog@gmail.com
Josh & Dane took a field trip up to Tempe, Arizona to spend a day with Pivot Cycles’ President (Bryan Mason) and Factory Field Rep (Bill Larson). The day included a fun ride on Pivot eMTBs at the amazing Hawes Trail System, grabbing lunch at Someburros, touring the Pivot factory, meeting many of the Pivot team in various departments, and recording this episode with Bryan.
The episode is centered around all things “Pivot”… including design, rapid prototyping, product testing, manufacturing in Asia, quality control, warranties, marketing, the race team, eMTB legislation, funding trail maintenance, paying employees to bike commute, always ensuring their facility has great trails in the backyard, their history, and of course the bikes.
Tough questions were asked. Each was answered.
We knew that Pivot made great bikes. After spending a day with Bryan, touring their facility, and meeting many of their passionate and capable employees… we are starting to see how Pivot is able to consistently put out great products.
As they say, you can tell a lot about a company based on the quality of its leadership.
Pivot Cycles:
https://www.pivotcycles.com/en/bikes/
Hawes Trail System:
https://www.trailforks.com/region/hawes/
Listen to Mountain Cog
Apple Podcasts
Spotify
Other Podcast Sites
Socials
Instagram
Facebook
Email
mountaincog@gmail.com
isn't it like unseasonably cool right now in phoenix?
Bryan Mason:I think it's unseasonably warm.
Dane:Well, today, yeah, today got warm, but yes, it's normally cooler, it's been cooler than normal right today we just started a like a couple day hot trend yeah, it's gonna be in the 90s.
Bryan Mason:I watch the news, is it?
Josh:gonna be in the 90s. I guess I got that arizona blood. I'm not feeling it.
Dane:Yeah, this will be the first day in the 90s.
Bryan Mason:I think today or tomorrow yeah, but that's random right for for an arizona person. It's not actually warm. It's not hot, it's starting to get a little warm.
Dane:It's a beautiful day in the 90s. Absolutely, it's like go ride in the middle of the day 90s.
Bryan Mason:It's totally fine. Every hour is in play right now, guys.
Josh:All right, so we're sitting here at Pivot headquarters in. Are we actually in Phoenix or Mesa, tempe?
Dane:Tempe, we're in Tempe, okay, tempe, arizona.
Bryan Mason:Like bay, yeah, literally. I mean we could, we could throw a rock over.
Josh:Yeah, it's over the the wall in the parking lot, it's, it's, it's a fence, yeah, yeah. And then, uh, we, we sell beautiful south mountain just next to the facility here and uh, we got to ride haas. Yeah, we've got to ride haas.
Bryan Mason:That was uh pretty amazing I think all new like pretty much all new trails for me, yeah, besides besides big sister, that was all new for me. Okay, well and those were like the highlights. I think you guys got a lot of the really good like open to everyone.
Dane:Everyone should enjoy those trails yeah, and so uh haas trail system, uh haas trails alliance. Yeah, they do a lot of building out there. They've gotten a lot of permission yeah, we're gonna.
Josh:We're gonna get those guys on. We talked to their leader.
Dane:It's a 24-hour race yeah, it's an amazing area to ride in the middle of Phoenix. You know I mean, like you're surrounded by well Usury Mountains.
Bryan Mason:It's east. Yeah, it's a little east. Yeah, there's a little open.
Dane:But yeah, you're right there. We did five minutes over to Mod Pizza and some. What is it? Sombreros?
Bryan Mason:Yeah, sombreros, sombreros, yeah, sombreros, it's close.
Dane:Yeah, it's great You're not driving for hours unless you live on the east side of Phoenix.
Josh:You should probably tell them that if you're not from the southwest, a burrow is another word for a burrito.
Dane:Burrito yeah, but their picture a burrow, you know. So it's a play on words. Yeah, play on words, for sure.
Josh:It's supposed to be funny.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, so you guys pick your location based on how close it is to South Mountain. Yeah, I mean, we're we're mountain bike people on top of everything else, right? So, um, you know for us to be able to sneak out on a lunch ride, for us to be able to test product, you know for us to just get together, I mean when we, when we're doing well as a company, we'll shut down the office for half a day. We'll all go ride together. Um, I think we have one on the 26th. We're all going to go out. There's hundred people just rolling out from the facility and we all go ride. And just all over the mountain, different types of riding. Some people go out on big e-bike crushers, and so it's. It's awesome.
Bryan Mason:It's just a great group Is that part of the interview process is like how good someone can ride. Uh, it's not how good, but yeah, I mean for most of our not all, but a lot of our positions will, especially if you're coming from out of town. Riding and with us is part of the. It's part of the interview. It's more of the experience Like we're not going to disqualify someone cause they don't.
Dane:I got to tell you, ryan, there's something a guilty pleasure when I come up here, Cause I always ride South mountain and pick up bikes and head back to the shop in Tucson and one of the things I like to check out the bikes. Look at the bikes, yeah, because they're not all pivots sometimes they're not.
Josh:Is this true?
Bryan Mason:yeah, uh, employees not, I know, yeah, well, it depends so some of them are cool bar bikes yeah, that's, that's the thing we actually have a commute program so we allow our. What we do is um, if you commute in on bicycle, um, and so not everyone needs to be riding a pivot in, there might be riding road bike and it might be coming on our bar because they live really close.
Bryan Mason:Um, yeah, we, actually we pay our employees to ride their bikes to work. Uh, we think that, uh, we don't have enough parking for everyone, actually, and also just part of the culture, I think. Last year we estimated we took like 35,000 miles of commuting out by our staff riding into work.
Dane:That is amazing. I was just thinking it was cool. But you're actually sustaining, like the planet doing that. Well, we hope so. I mean, that is something we're working on.
Bryan Mason:I mean bikes honestly aren't as sustainable as they can be in the long run, but it is important to us that we're contributing and doing the things we can do and if you're like telling your staff like, hey, we're going to pay you to ride your bike into work, oh man, it's awesome.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, so I. I generally try to do it once a week, but some of our guys will be doing it five days a week. Four days a week and we only counted if it's round trips. So you can't like bum a ride off a buddy on the way home round trip only. Yeah, and I mean a lot of our guys are able to come in by mountain or e-bike every day and actually ride South Mountain in.
Dane:Matt says he rides the whole thing over the top and into work because he's at the other end.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, I do the same. So I'm 13 miles and I'm 11 and a half is on Desert Classic.
Josh:So it's just kind of cooking all the way up. Yeah, it's super fun. That's a cool commute we should probably introduce Brian.
Dane:Oh yeah, well, we kind of did. Yeah, you said we were at the pivot headquarters but they don't know who we're talking to. We're talking to.
Josh:Brian.
Dane:Mason, who's a president? Yep President, what's your? It's not president. Oh, no President. No, chris is still the CEO, and founder yeah. So I'm the president of the company. I just take, you know, basically I get to do all the stuff Chris doesn't want to do. No, I'm just kidding. No, so that's to his credit, that's true, you know, cause he's, he's focused on, like R and D, like you said, his office.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, yeah, well, I mean that's what we want him to focus on. He's got a long career, he's done this a long time and his passion is product Right, um, and so he is dedicated to our R and D, our engineering, making sure that the product is what the product is. He is still the vision behind the product. Um, and then kind of where I come in and I shouldn't just say I cause I mean it's a group of amazing people that work with me.
Josh:That's a good leader right there, yeah, and there, and so what?
Bryan Mason:we do right. What we do from there is we take that vision and once it's production, it's our job to fulfill it, to take care of our dealers, take care of our customers, to make sure that they're getting the service and the experience that we expect on on a pivot you know a pivot level.
Bryan Mason:Experience is really important to us. And so, from top down, and you talk to real people, uh and so that's you know. I helped to oversee that, whether it's a warranty claim, whether it's um logistics, like my, the teams I work with, like my purview is is those teams and those leaders.
Dane:So so I did a little research.
Josh:Uh, let's, let me tell you we want to learn a little bit about you before we get into pivot.
Dane:Before the dad joke oh no, no, we forgot the dad joke. Do the dad joke.
Bryan Mason:All right. So why did the bicycle fall over? It was too tired. It was too tired.
Dane:Too tired. Okay, we've heard that. See, I thought you guys might. That's okay, that's good. Maybe we should put that up. Most of the team will think that I've like that it's because I was riding it, though. The bike. Dad jokes are pretty thin.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, they are. We need more of them.
Dane:Yeah, you guys already had a couple of them. Yeah, like if you try and put bikes in the dad jokes, we're going to have to start creatively writing them then. Yeah.
Josh:We can't just search them on Google. No, I have done that though, but that one's mine.
Bryan Mason:We've used that. Yeah, we do a company newsletter and that's been in the company newsletter.
Dane:I was like you got to put this one in. So, okay, so uh, brian, mason, brian with a Y.
Bryan Mason:Yeah.
Dane:That's important right.
Bryan Mason:Not to me. I mean half of my uh little league trophies were spelled the wrong way.
Dane:So I mean yeah.
Bryan Mason:I mean, it's like it's six to one, were like let's be original and pick the most common name for boys, but spell it different to make his life a little difficult.
Dane:Here's the stuff. There's a couple things that I saw. Did you know that he was a sales engineer at Ellsworth? Sorry, sales manager at Ellsworth.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, I was.
Dane:Where you're at you like baggies instead of spandex.
Bryan Mason:Well, that's important. I'm glad we covered at you like baggies instead of a spandex. Yeah, well, that's important. I'm glad we covered that Cause your clothes should not really worry, dr Pepper, did you think?
Josh:we were going to show up in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in in in.
Bryan Mason:In spandex it's just underneath I'm not that old, so I get away.
Josh:How old are you? Uh, I just turned 40 in october just turned 40 and you're the president, uh good job man good job yeah, that's impressive uh.
Dane:So then you worked at cali. I did, yeah, cali helmets. Uh, am I saying that right?
Bryan Mason:cali protectives cali protectives.
Dane:Yeah, I love those helmets. They do a great job I still wear them. Yep, yeah, today I'm a nice looking one yeah, so and then, uh, and then pretty much here here yeah, like started pivot with one of the original. One of the originals yeah, no not at all.
Bryan Mason:That's what's cool is I mean, we've been here now 17, uh, yeah, 2007, so we're 17 years in right, um, and so I'm I've been here nine, uh, and so there are people that are here, many people here, that have been here since, and so there are people that are here, many people here, that have been here 15, 16, 17 years.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, so head of engineering and Bill Kibler. Bill Kibler, who's not head of engineering, he's head of R&D has been here for that long. Kevin Taisu, who is our head of engineering, has been here that long, and then several of our sales guys have been here 15, 16 years. Uh, yeah, so, but I was employee, I think, 27. Uh, and you know, globally we have a hundred in this office now and then more in uh 25 in Germany and 11 in Taiwan, and so, um, yeah, we've, it's a. It's pretty crazy to see that growth. So nine years is uh.
Dane:later this year I'll complete nine years with pivot that's something I didn't know until today was uh you pivot? I always thought it was just Arizona, Like that's just Arizona brand. You know people are like, oh, they're right Other places. Yeah, I didn't know you had locations, so you're building or you finished, uh, Germany.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, so we have, we've. We've had a an operation since 2017 in.
Josh:Germany yeah.
Bryan Mason:Uh, we're in Stuttgart right now. We're located like, uh, like a mile from the Porsche museum, which is pretty cool, I think, pretty fitting actually, um, and so we're, that's where we're at right now. We're in a small 1000 square meter, which is about, you know what, 10,000, 12,000 square feet, Uh, and we're, we're actually building, uh, not our own, but a long-term lease on a 3,000 square meter, which is about 33,000 square foot building.
Dane:And the long-term goal is to have everything that we have here within reason there as well. And is that just to have a European distribution?
Josh:Yeah, Is it the same concept Are you going to assemble there?
Bryan Mason:Yeah, we already do. We actually do a higher level of assembly there, because that's kind of common for a German dealer Uh, they do less like part changes and more. Just, you know, they order a bike and that's how it comes, and so we actually do like a 90% assembly there, um, and we're doing that with all of our analog bikes right now, um, and so that's part of it. Right, the quality control, the experience, is a big piece, um, but also, you know, it allows us to test bikes in different environments. It allows us to interact with our customers in a different way.
Bryan Mason:Um, germany is a pretty critical market in Europe. It's powerful in the economy, it's powerful in the cycling industry, and so it was important for us to have a presence there. And, you know, we feel like, if we're able to control the narrative and have the relationship that we have with some of our dealers, um, direct, it's just so much more powerful and uh, so we, yeah, we've gone from like zero dealers in 2017 to, I think we're over 80 now in Germany, austria, the Netherlands, um, and we just started to do a similar method, uh, through our German office in Spain as well. So we just started in October in Spain.
Dane:So, um, there's all of those features. Is this kind of like when Toyota moved to the States and they wanted to build here? Does it? I think you're getting all of those things Plus, you're getting to say, hey, we're, we're putting this together in your country and and it's not so much a foreign thing yeah absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and like when they call in and it's not like, it's not like.
Bryan Mason:Oh, I'm going to talk to you know, I'm a, I'm a distributor of the brand and I'm going to call someone in the U S and then wait a day to hear back. It's like you're talking to. The experience is is the same as very similar to what we have here.
Dane:One of the guys that does your podcast, which I enjoy a lot.
Bryan Mason:Jens, right, jens yeah.
Dane:He. Is he integrated into that or is he here? No, he's remote.
Bryan Mason:No, he both. Uh so it depends. He was just out here in January for the switchblade launch, uh, and Jens is a world famous mountain bike photographer, actually, okay, um, and he, uh, is our brand manager there. He participates in a lot of the product testing as well. So actually, one of the bikes you're on the shuttle sl, he was like early on because the the batteries weren't approved yet in the us and so a lot of the testing of that bike had to happen in yeah, and I mean we did a lot of testing without the drive unit.
Bryan Mason:The bike rode really well without the drive unit, so we knew with the drive unit it would also ride really well. Yeah, but uh, so we've, we've been doing that for a while, and so he's he's tied into that office as well, yeah, I love that bike, but I can see Deutsch. Uh no, I am, I am practicing, I am Du 50 straight days and I speak fluent Spanish actually, and so that's more of what.
Dane:I do. Is that because you're from La Mesa, california?
Bryan Mason:No, I served a mission, you know, an LDS mission. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So I served a mission in Chile, a proselyting mission for two years in Santiago, and so then, yeah, that's something that I've maintained, and before being president of the company, I ran our international and global sales, uh, and so I got to travel throughout central and South America, spain and, and can, and you know, to be able to speak to them, and their language is pretty awesome.
Dane:Yeah, it's pretty great. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's really uh.
Josh:uh, I want to say nice, it's um respectful when you can go into another country and at least try I was taught that in germany and actually austria, you know like just give it a shot, like if you try they seem to be I've been in a lot of countries in the world and the only place that like didn't care if I tried was in paris but other places in france other places in france.
Dane:They care, they were cool with me trying, but I don't know if you know, but josh knows every language on the earth. I do not every language. No, I do not speak, I was. I was a translator.
Josh:I do not speak every language. I speak arabic and albanian that's.
Bryan Mason:That's more than most americans. It really is. Your european list would be quite short, but yeah, it is for sure, um.
Josh:So what bike? What's your favorite bike? What's your personal favorite bike?
Bryan Mason:you know. Well, I mean, I could give the chris answer, which is great, you know the next one, um, but I won't. Uh, you know, I have spent a ton of time on e-bikes recently. Um, um, I think that my all time favorite bike is the switch blade. Like, if you're just talking like one bike to do everything, it's the switch blade.
Bryan Mason:And I think the new one is is even better and a leap forward, uh, which is remarkable that we were able to do. But because of my position and also, I've got two young kids, I've got two little girls, uh, nine and 11, and they just take up. Obviously, kids are great. They take up a lot of time, though, Uh, right, and so there's that balance, and for me the e-bike has been like uh, I was actually just talking to bill or Arizona rep today and I was like man, that is like my salvation.
Bryan Mason:You know cause in 45 minutes an hour I can get really good, I can get 13 miles in you know, um, and so a lot of times you're just like I have literally, I have a, I have a lunch window and that's all like there was a couple of days last week where I had meetings from 6.00 AM, cause I handle our German office all the way through to like 5.00 PM and I would literally was like, if I don't go ride in this one little window, open window, I'm in a ton of trouble Right and and, and I try to ride six days a week and take Sunday off, and so, yeah, the e-bike has been the key. So right now I'm on an LT. I literally just sold my AM and I've actually just been bouncing back and forth. You know, a lot of times I'll own both at the same time.
Josh:So yeah, and for our listeners, and it might not be familiar with your lineup but sorry you've got.
Bryan Mason:you're talking about the shuttle LT, shuttle AM. These are full power, full power e-bikes one 70 front uh, on the LT it's a one 70, one 60, uh, based off basically our firebird Uh, and then uh, the AM, which is basically a full power e-bike switchblade. A little bit longer travel, um, but yeah, those two bikes uh, south mountain it, it. It requires a lot of a bike, so you kind of need that as your minimum if you're going to be riding regularly.
Dane:It's no joke. Now I have the SL, and so that was a lifestyle choice that I made, and he was regretting on the ride today when three guys had full power.
Dane:Today is like the only day that I would say that I've ever regretted that bike, because you guys were just smoking me. But I got to tell you I love that bike. I absolutely love that bike. I absolutely love that bike and, and when I get on the, I'm in the same boat as you. I have two little kids, I have two businesses that I have to deal with, and and my time is really limited, and so when I go ride, I don't want to be suffering, I don't want to be at the back of the pack, I want to hang out with my friends, I want to go do the stuff that I used to do when I was in better shape, and, uh, the e-bike just lets me do that.
Josh:And you also want to show up to every ride that you do with me while I'm on an analog bike I'm going to take your term and ride an e-bike while I'm on the analog bike.
Dane:Have we addressed that? You are now an e-bike rider.
Josh:Yeah, I have an e-bike. Yeah, I've been hiding my map, I mean that's.
Bryan Mason:I think it's a great thing. It's so much fun. Man On my research.
Dane:I want to bring this up too. Uh, so you guys, pivot has done a lot to improve access for e-bike.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, we have uh. Chris was really instrumental in that, especially here in Arizona. Um, we were. You know, Chris was actually working with some of the lobbyists to get the the three-class system passed here, that he was working with people for bikes as well, Um, and that was a huge piece, uh, because it was actually kind of funny. One of the things that held it up is the three class system has a helmet law, um, but there's no helmet law in Arizona for motorcycles.
Bryan Mason:So that was actually one of the things that they had to go back and be like oh well you don't need helmets right.
Bryan Mason:Uh, in order to get it to pass, cause you don't need on a motorcycle, you don't need one on a bike, right, um. But yeah, we were instrumental, uh, chris for sure, and and the team have been instrumental in getting that passed. And we work, um, we work with South mountain. We actually have adopted national trail, um, and then we do service there. I was telling you guys, eight times a year we do service out and we do four times at Haas, and eight times at South mountain.
Bryan Mason:Um yeah, and and so yeah, we we were meeting with them early on, before it was legal, and basically had multiple meetings to explain it. And actually what was awesome is the second that Arizona adopted the law. South mountain immediately was, like you know, class one and class two. They actually went a little further than we would have and, and and instantly, like the day it went into law in arizona she got saurons and stuff it was open.
Dane:Yeah, exactly, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's class three, you gotta be, careful.
Josh:Okay, class one and class two they did it for.
Bryan Mason:Basically, class one and class two are both limited 20 miles an hour. Class one's pedal and class two can have a throttle, and so for accessibility they wanted people that couldn't do the pedaling.
Josh:Not going any faster.
Bryan Mason:Sierrons should not be on Southbound.
Dane:I have chased people down to tell them they cannot be there. I think they don't class. I don't even think they're class three, because they usually start at 40 miles per hour but they're not assist. There's no pedal.
Josh:There's no pedal assist, it's just an e-motor. It's an e-motor yeah.
Dane:My redneck rule is if you can, shut it off, sorry.
Bryan Mason:It's a scientific term.
Dane:If you can shut it off and still ride out, then it should be allowed for the most part. And so if you've got pegs and you have to push it out, then it shouldn't be. And I'm I'm pretty open to, and we're trying to do that in Tucson and, um, I apologize to our listeners right now because I keep bringing this subject up and so the reason we bring this up is that you're very passionate about it.
Josh:You're on the board for SDMB down in Tucson and you're you're working on, you know, improving access.
Dane:So it's a passion of yours.
Dane:That's nothing wrong with that and that's, and I've seen it change like in two. You know, when I come up here to pick up pivots, you know I bring my e-bike and I hit national and I don't have any shame. I don't have any, you know, guilt. I don't have to hide my map. You know, on Strava I don't have to do anything. You know I can. I'm not running over babies, I'm not killing anyone, I'm not tearing up the trails or anything like that, and I just want to see that move to other places. Where it does, it doesn't happen.
Bryan Mason:It's been cool to see on South mountain and South mountain of all the places that are that I ride regularly is like where he bikes makes a ton of sense because every climb is is mean every climbs mean there's no, there's no, there's no easy way around it's made to play, so for sure, okay.
Dane:So let's uh, let's say the same question, but not e-bikes switchblade. Yeah, I mean the switchblade.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, I've started with that. I mean, I think it's my all-time favorite bike. I've owned every iteration of it. Um, and it's the one bike that you never have to be like am I going to be under or over biked? It's like it'll work you grab that bike and you're ready to go?
Dane:what version are we on? Because I've had a discussion about that like, because people are like I've got this one and I've got this because one thing I'll tell you that I love about pivot and I absolutely love this. I can't people will say what year is this?
Bryan Mason:yeah, there is no year. There's no yeah, that that that.
Dane:That in and of itself creates some confusion for people but it's nice because people kind of want to attribute a year and a color. You know the big brands want to put a certain color every year and it's it's confusing, and then they want to attribute cost and value to that and really doesn't matter if it's the same frame yeah, so we're on what we would say generation three.
Bryan Mason:This is the third bike that is like fully launched, but there's been other iterations and so sometimes confusing because our part numbers, which really is not a something only a dealer has to deal with like we used to make. Every time we would change a mold. Um, so if we went from a non-udh to a udh, right, that's a change in a mold it would be another version, but to an end consumer it's the same.
Bryan Mason:It's the same, uh. So we've really focused more on generation. This is the third generation. I mean, we had the 135 millimeter kind of original bike, uh, the previous generation two, which we just replaced, and then the bike that we're on now is the third generation and the the shuttles back back to the e-bikes.
Josh:They're they're based on the version two, the, the current shuttles that you're selling, like or is that the wrong thing to it to associate the switchblade with the with the geometry and in the shop we tell people that the am the am is pretty much a switchblade.
Dane:Geometry wise, it's close. What do you think it's close?
Bryan Mason:yeah, I mean we, we have to make some changes. I mean you carry you're carrying a little bit more weight and so you need a little bit more travel to give it the same feel, and so the the travel is stretched to 148 as opposed to 142 on the switchblade.
Josh:Gotcha.
Bryan Mason:But also the geometries. There are some slight changes, yeah.
Josh:It's hard, so it's not like it was. That was an all up design that you took the.
Bryan Mason:Like pretty much everything's an all up design.
Josh:Yeah, it's ground up.
Bryan Mason:I mean, that's kind of who we are. We're bike geeks, right.
Josh:And so everything I mean it's we're not a like a slap some, slap some lipstick on it and call it a new bike. No yeah.
Bryan Mason:We want to complete like everything, and that's actually, I think, one of the magic of the bikes is the amount of care that we put in the front end and really translate into a great ride experience for our customers. And so, yeah, I mean we don't everything. I mean everything is so well thought out and from from from the go, from you know, from word one.
Josh:Yeah, so so ground up design. So, that's interesting so that was. I guess a misperception that I had, that I've heard actually in many places that like the shuttle is basically a switchblade. Yeah.
Dane:So that's a. That's a lazy sales technique, because when we're we're selling bikes, you know that's what people want to know is like what is this? And it's easy to say, well, this is a, this am is like a switchblade and this sl is more like a 429 trail and the lt is a little closer to a firebird and I think like is okay. I mean, it's like that.
Bryan Mason:But I mean you have to change things. The shock valving has to be unique, the geo has to change, change states have to get a little bit longer, because you have extra power. You don't want to loop out. So there's a lot of additional thought that goes into that. The bike is a little bit heavier, so how are we going to control that? All of those things have to be thought about so you can and scale it. That doesn't work. The carbon layups have to be unique to handle the additional weight to give you access to the battery, all of those things.
Dane:They didn't just cut out the bottom bracket and glue in a motor.
Bryan Mason:Maybe if that was possible. Definitely not the first ones, but certainly there were some thoughts, maybe at the beginning that could work.
Dane:We did a tour. You were gracious enough to take us on a tour, so it's cool you get here in in tempe arizona, it's nice out. We did a ride and we walk in the demo center showroom. Yeah, the showroom and you walk in and you see all these beautiful pivots all over with different history, and then you can actually uh, demo a bike right here in at the factory. Yeah, and absolutely well, depending on the time of the year, we don't want anyone to melt or dive heat exhaustion you get someone in here who's like oh, let's you know summertime.
Bryan Mason:Look, they come out from.
Josh:Wisconsin and they're like.
Dane:Holy heck, and they do, yeah, yeah.
Bryan Mason:October to may. Yeah, so that's our that's our window Normally end of may. We kind of wrap it up for the year and that fleet will actually go on the road. It's nice. The rest of the world, uh, you know, the rest of the U?
Bryan Mason:S is pretty nice, so they'll kind of take those bikes out on the road, go Colorado and that type of stuff, and um, yeah, and we'll kind of close down the factory, uh, demo, and then in October, when we start to get nice weather again, it'll open back up. So yeah, you can go on our website and make a reservation, pick your bike pick your bike.
Josh:Yeah, I was kind of blown away at the size of your demo. I wasn't expecting. I thought I would see like 10 bikes or five bikes.
Dane:Now is that like three trucks worth. No actually two of the trucks are on the road right now.
Bryan Mason:So that's, that's just the.
Josh:That's just the bikes that are retired.
Bryan Mason:Yeah yeah, there's a lot of bikes, you know we're big believers in, you know, and but it's just, it's just BS marketing until you go out and ride it and like we are huge advocates for the fact that the experience on the bike is elevated, that it is a different type of ride when you're on a pivot, and the best way to show that is to have our largest marketing expense be our bikes out on demonstration every weekend. And so we have. I was teasing. You know we've got a.
Bryan Mason:We've got two guys that are bike carnies you know, they drive their trucks around, they live in their vans and and every Saturday and Sunday basically for 11 months they're just demoing and they go out and visit shops and drop off shop bikes at shops during the during the year. It's really a great way of moving forward.
Dane:So yeah, I love it because, um, you know I'll sell a pivot and and the customer will come back and they'll just be like I can't get over how good that bike rode. And I know that, you know, I know that as a seller and somebody rides them and and but it's just gratifying, like you know, sometimes we were talking about this earlier today about some companies kind of have a lot of hype and they have a lot of marketing but then the end result is really just kind of a normal bike and you get a little let down almost. And I love selling pivots for that reason, because once somebody comes back it's always a smile. If they're coming back, it's usually to get their wife or their loved one on bike.
Bryan Mason:A lot of our competitors are way better at marketing. I mean, we're getting more sophisticated, but a lot of these companies are just marketing. You know, juggernauts, you know they just are brilliant, um, and you know we're, we're, we're led by a ton of bike geeks, you know. I mean we're definitely getting more sophisticated and better at our marketing and our marketing team is amazing, um, but certainly if the product wasn't that good, there's no way that we would have found the success we've found. And so the for us, that's the, that's the key, right, um, is if someone goes out, tries it, they, experience it, they, and we just want them to buy a pivot, cause we know, once they do, they'll never want to have another bike. That's not a pivot.
Dane:No, it's, it's. It's pretty amazing. It's almost cult level. I just want to you know firsthand, firsthand experience today.
Josh:You know, you know I had borrowed Tyler's you SL previously and really enjoyed that ride, although the trail that we rode which was that kind, of off it was like the Bones trail.
Dane:Yeah, it was Bones and Painter Boy.
Josh:Painter Boy.
Dane:Behind the 24, like the most obscure, non-ridden trails. We came back covered in the catclaw scars, bleeding just everywhere. So it was a bad trail. Sounds like my type of trail. I like it because the trail's this wide. It's five inches wide.
Josh:But we went out and did I don't know what 16 miles or something like that at Hossaday, which is just an amazing trail system and you brought out. Thank you so much. I told you I don't own a Pivot.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, this is what I'm going to bring. I.
Josh:I took it out there and at first it was like so I'm used to kind of way different, much heavier bikes, much different geometry. At first I was like, well, this is weird. It probably took me about three or four miles to get used to it. Then I was like whoa, this thing's like super light and I haven't pedal struck one time, which in the Southwest is a big deal, because we had a lot of rocks. We're pedal striking all the time. And then I then it was like the input that I had to put in the bike was like a lot less than I have to do. So it took me a minute to get used to that. But once I got used to I was like holy shit, this could like excuse my language, but this could like open up this, this could open up my riding. So you got me rethinking. So so.
Bryan Mason:So hey, yeah, the problem is it's. You know, that's the first pump's always free yeah, yeah, exactly right it's gonna you just had an
Josh:expense. You just got an expensive addiction.
Bryan Mason:You don't even know it's going to get expensive real quick you know, can we talk about that.
Dane:So I'm kind of going over our tour. And we went to the R&D, which I'll just do a short stint in the R&D and kind of got to see the computer modeling, which is really cool.
Josh:Your 3D printing. It was the engineering department as well. Right? Yep, I modeling, which is really cool you're 3d engineering department as well. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, that was engineering department.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, that's okay.
Josh:No, we went to rd together we'll talk about that because that was awesome.
Dane:But uh, yeah, the engineering department and they've got 3d models, they're putting things together, they're they're literally uh additive, you know, uh production 3d model frames so you can see just how the cables move so they don't't rub the paint, like just the attention to detail. And then we moved to the production line.
Josh:Well, hang on, so I want to talk about something, so some a nuance that I picked up on I thought was super interesting. So in that engineering department you got your graphic designers, you got your engineers mechanical engineers, industrial engineers and in front of every single desk was a bike.
Bryan Mason:It was a bike stand, it was on a bike.
Josh:And when I first went in, I thought oh, these must be the bikes they're working on. Oh, it's their bikes and it's like that's the bikes of the people that are working, and that's super cool.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, they're lucky. Actually, Everyone else is probably a little jealous because their bikes are all parked in the engineering department. Yeah.
Josh:Yeah, they need to see them.
Dane:Yeah, I just like that that you know the, the, they're, they're really paying attention to little things. You know it's not just something that they send off and and as a bike guy and as a bike mechanic, I've seen cable routing that just doesn't make any sense you know, and and. Then we moved to production. We got to see places, different stations, where you're putting these bikes together. The e-bike stations are cool. You have these custom carts that you bought at Uline.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, custom Uline and then tweaked them.
Dane:And then the guys are putting those. I think they said it takes them around three hours. And then we walk into a separate warehouse just huge racks and racks of frames and bikes and what have you? And as we go around to R and D which is great, we got to go in there, meet bill I've bought a couple of bills bikes. So just so you know, like we find good homes for these. That's awesome. So when that so that was.
Josh:That wasn't a joke. I thought you were joking.
Dane:No, I bought. Right now I have three of them. Yeah, for years.
Bryan Mason:Bill would not ride any bike that he did not build.
Dane:Yeah, so he was only riding prototypes.
Josh:That's a good fabricator.
Bryan Mason:I actually think he's still kind of on that bandwagon.
Dane:Well, I saw his prototype SL and I don't care if it's a large, I want that thing.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, that was the last of the like full aluminum.
Dane:Yeah, so we got a peek at your um rapid development uh, which is carbon fiber uh, and we got to see some of those processes yeah, but they're machining out the lugs, yep you know, out of aluminum lugs, yeah and then doing a custom layup on the yeah on the tubes and and that is something that you're just building them that way so that you can get real time testing and immediate, like you're not sending these off to be built off into some factory, then waiting for them to show up, and then testing and then sending back. You can build these things.
Bryan Mason:I think they said it was like 12 hours uh yeah, the carbon, the carbon tubes, the carbon, carbon tubes carrying three weeks is what he said.
Josh:oh, three, three weeks, okay, yeah.
Dane:So three weeks, but that's faster than a slow boat.
Josh:Three weeks from concept to a bike that you can ride.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, I mean, it depends on the complexity of the bike and what they're building. And if we've done it before, come on man, I'm trying to give you some.
Josh:I'm trying to give you some.
Bryan Mason:I just don't want to oversell it, the amount of work that those guys do Realistically.
Dane:right down the hallway some guy designed something on the computer. Then they go prototype it in the 3D printers to make sure everything's going to work right. Then it goes right to another room and then gets literally built in carbon and aluminum. Then there's somebody out on South Mountain which is right down the street.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, and in Germany and all over. I mean Colorado they get sent to our testing our engineers all over and we go and put them through the base.
Josh:So let's pull the thread on that a little bit, Cause that's something I want to talk about. I you know, I've heard a couple of times with a couple other content creators that, um, pivot bikes are great in Arizona but not great in other places, and I think I don't subscribe to that. I don't think it's true.
Bryan Mason:I don't either Uh can you help?
Josh:can you help like address that?
Bryan Mason:that I think it's meant to be a compliment. I think we went over there. I mean, not every bike performs well here. Um, it's a special type of writing the rocks, the, the, just the technical terrain. Um, you know what it takes to go through a trail here. It's not. It's not something that every bike is just going to come and inherently be good at.
Josh:Right.
Bryan Mason:Um, and so that's. That's the first thing. I think it's meant to be a compliment, um, and certainly like we're taking a global perspective. So, as we talked about, we have testers in Germany um totally different riding there. Um, I, I go over there multiple times a year You've got moisture and roots.
Dane:Oh, like crazy. That scares the crap out of me. Those sniper roots, man, I spend a lot of time over there. Oh my God, yeah, they just like they get you.
Bryan Mason:And then we also Kevin, our head of engineering. He is actually based in Park City, so he's almost always on a future bike and so he's in the Park City area Again, a totally different riding style. Chris has a house in Colorado. He's actually testing with Fox right now and they're at his house testing in Colorado. So, um, certainly, when we're designing a bike, we want it to perform well everywhere, um, and I think that that's the key. And and there are certain attributes that certainly help the bike here, um, you know, slightly shorter chainstays, for example, uh, can really help, uh, you know, especially with those ledger things. And and also when we're talking about just the bike having a, you know, a variable wheel travel path, that really helps the bike climb well, um, and so all of those things add up. So I definitely don't feel that our bikes I've I've I've written this year bikes in Germany, uh, spain, uh, switzerland and and the U? S this year, and I can tell you that it performs well in all of those places.
Bryan Mason:And that it's it's I think it's April right now, guys. So I mean so I've had the chance to ride the bikes all over and in all type of conditions and it performed they perform exceptionally well in all conditions.
Josh:So, and you get the sales numbers to back that up, I mean, oh yeah, I mean we have an office in Germany.
Bryan Mason:If they only rode well in the desert, we wouldn't it would not be a profitable venture, guys. Yeah, it wouldn't be. We probably should pull out of Germany if the bikes don't ride well. Yeah.
Dane:From. From a sales standpoint, we definitely like the pivots in Arizona because of the rock clearance. They do focus on that and if you rode in a place where there's just not jutting rocks like we have here, it's loamy and smooth. That wouldn't be a selling feature.
Bryan Mason:That's not going to separate you. It's not a selling point, but there's no downside to it. That doesn't mean that the bike's bad right. No, not at all.
Dane:But I know I've ridden other brands that are the opposite. They have a low bottom bracket. I think they're going for a dirt demo. Yeah, um and sorry, inner bike dirt demo in boot't worry, you know, that's just it's just rocky here?
Josh:no, it's not, uh, no it's rocky other places it matters, you know, and and so yeah, I mean, I I think it's a great thing.
Dane:I I'm I know what you're referencing and I think that that that um content creator was really showcasing how steep his trails are and how he has to adjust the bike for his trails, and I think that's a different conversation.
Bryan Mason:Well, and I think that there's a lot of the industry that you know they only think about riding where, where they are located, yeah, and that's actually, I think, a dangerous sort of there. If they're the person you know, it's a two edge to two edge sword, right. I mean if they're the person that's helping to show you know the industry what's acceptable and they're only riding just crazy steep trails you know if they're out in the Pacific Northwest riding crazy steeps and shoots or they're up in Vancouver or something.
Bryan Mason:the terrain there is very unique and for most of even the U?
Josh:S it's not that's not what the trails look like, yeah.
Bryan Mason:And so I think you have to be careful and I think it's important that they kind of give rider profiles and to help us understand, like, what they like and what they ride. Uh, cause I think that that's a critical piece when you're looking at a review, and it's not a bias thing, right, it's just what they like or what the, what they feel is necessary for where they live and I get it like that's important for them.
Dane:Yeah, yeah, I think I think they're uh for them. Yeah, yeah, I think I think they're uh. They're riding, and I think they probably have a lot of different brands that they have to modify for the way they ride. You know, especially when you ride in something that unique, absolutely.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, I mean here, if, if you test it, if every you know if we had a ton of editors on South mountain, I mean the, the reviews would be like you know, this has a lot of pedal strikes, right?
Josh:I mean so exactly, they wouldn't notice how little compared to other brands, right, exactly? Yeah, that's for sure, yeah, that's very true. Around the bike industry, and like where all the bikes are manufactured, and like what are the, the attributes of manufacturing indonesia versus china, versus taiwan, versus germany, versus canada versus united states, you name it. And so, um, you know, along those lines, um, and I'm trying to kind of like pull back the covers, and the bike industry doesn't want me to do that, so it's fun for me to try to figure out like the answers to these questions I'm not going to pull it back very far, that's fine, that's fine.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, I mean whatever, whatever you're comfortable with but um so.
Josh:so whatever you're comfortable saying, sure, when do you guys manufacture your frames?
Bryan Mason:We we produce in Asia, um, multiple countries in Asia for different reasons. Uh, and we we use a process. You guys got to see some of the process. We call it hollow core internal molding, and it's a little bit more in depth, and there's actually three factories that can do it in the world right now.
Bryan Mason:They can do it at that level, Um, and so we don't have, we can't go to just any country. Now a lot of those manufacturers have multiple countries where they have, where they have uh factories, and so that helps us a little bit. Um, so we produce in several countries in Asia, Uh, but one of the things that sets us apart is just that we're so present there, Um, we have an office in Asia, uh, in Taichung Uh, and so we have staff that goes over to the factories, does QC before they ever leave the factories. Then they get shipped to our facility in Taiwan and we check the product again before it ever leaves Asia. So it's already been through one, if not two or three QC chips before it ever leaves Asia, yeah, before it ever leaves.
Josh:And then, and then we saw you're in. We didn't talk about this, but maybe you could tell us just I know this has been out already, but a little bit about your QC process here as well, cause you have one here as well, yep.
Bryan Mason:When the frames arrive here, uh, we check them again. I mean, the everything's different, the lighting's different. Uh, cure times on pain are different, so you've got to sometimes give it that time to get over here. And then we, our staff, lands every frame and we, before we put it into inventory, they'll go through an inspection. They'll check the tolerances on the C tube, the head tube, the bottom bracket. Um, our tolerances are incredibly tight. Uh, one one 3000 it. Um, our tolerances are incredibly tight. Uh, one one three thousandth of an inch, if I remember right. Uh, it's like 0.001 millimeters is pass fail. Um, I, actually I'm going to be honest. These guys are so much better at it.
Bryan Mason:They're like, oh, if it goes in, and I'm like I feel like they both go in and they're like Nope and I they're much smarter than I am Uh and so we end up, uh, we check everything here again.
Bryan Mason:Uh, we treat everything like an a surface, so we want to make sure that everything looks great on the frame, that whenever the customer receives it, it's it's going to be up to a pivot level quality, uh and so they'll check everything. And then we also check our alignment, um, and our alignment tolerances are tighter. Dw links are finicky in order to perform really well, but also, just being pivot, we want to make sure that it's as tight as it can be. So we have a plus or minus, uh, one millimeter, so it's a very tight tolerances, um, and we have some tools that we don't show outside the building that you guys got to see, um, that help us make sure that we're holding those tolerances, and so we check them here and then we put them in inventory, and then we also pick every bike before it leaves, and so it goes through another round before it ships, where the guys are checking it over one more time as they're mounting the correct shock to the build that was ordered.
Josh:So that frame, when an end consumer gets that frame, it's literally gone through somewhere between three and four quality checks. Three and five, three and five quality checks before you get it.
Dane:Yeah, that's nuts.
Josh:I mean typically, what you'll see in my research is that there'll be one check at the factory. It goes into the box as a full bike and that's the only check that bike gets.
Dane:Until it's built by a mechanic For other until it's built by.
Josh:So that's a great point, because then you guys so that could be six. Yeah, because you got your mechanics checking it as well, but there's a lot of variability in that you don't know the quality mechanics in the shops. Interesting so somewhere between three and six QC checks on the bike before the consumer, and it's somewhere between one and two for every other bike brand that I've been able to uncover so far.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, and we're also just present in general.
Bryan Mason:I mean, we talked about that's all the back end after the product's there, but both Chris and Bill have actually been to Asia this year already Again, it's April, you know, early April, and so both of them have already been to our factories, have been visiting our factories. Um, and that's another huge piece is being present. Um, and yeah, we, we work really closely with the factories. We have long standing relationships with them, well over a decade, Um, and that's those types of things and and you know those, those understandings of what a pivot is is important. They have to understand it as well as we do, right, Our manufacturers have to understand it.
Josh:So he was true to his word.
Bryan Mason:He didn't pull back the covers too much so I'm going to have to do more.
Josh:I'm going to send you some emails with what I have to cover.
Dane:You can not respond to them Okay. Sounds good. So we had a conversation on the way up here and I want to kind of highlight that, excuse me, and that is because we talked about this coming up here and and from my perspective as a pivot dealer I've been a dealer for about 10 years now and I can count on one hand, I think, how many warranties we've had and in 10 years.
Bryan Mason:I mean they happen right. I mean no matter what it's handmade. I mean, I'm not going to say we don't have warranties, but we.
Dane:You worked at ellsworth, so you know how bad it could be.
Josh:I mean, you said, I thought that, I thought that bike was great and I must have had just the one good bike. I got the good one, that sure we had sherwood gibson from fantana right so they, they, oh so he. They've manufactured a lot of well.
Dane:So it's funny because when you talk to sherwood you should ask. Ask him, because they didn't. He didn't produce a lot of them. Yeah, so a company called Calloy, uh, us did a lot of them. Look at the smile.
Bryan Mason:They have their own facility. When I was there, we had our own facility.
Dane:Yeah, and so and so you could get, you could get an elsewhere from at least three different places. But uh, for me as a dealer having a one brand where we've seen around five or less warranties in 10 years and I can't say that big enough because I've worked at other brands and we would have one a month in an area that is especially hard harsh on bikes.
Josh:I mean for for crashes. I guess we don't have the water and the rain and all that stuff. But you know, for frames, I think Arizona is pretty harsh on and to see these, you know for frames, I think Arizona is pretty harsh on bikes and to see these.
Dane:you know that's one of the things that, uh, that does come up when we're selling these bikes is we're trying to tell people why they should spend the money on this bike because it's not the cheapest bike on on the no quality costs money.
Bryan Mason:It does, I mean. There's really no way around that.
Dane:And this, um, it does, and that the least amount. I mean it's hard to help them understand that until you start telling them five and 10 years. That's insane. I don't, I don't know. I mean, I've definitely had more than that and in the brands that we sell, besides pivot.
Bryan Mason:So, so, uh, we, we certainly take pride in it. I mean, for us it's about, again, it's about the consumer experience, right, like, if you're going to make that investment, we don't want you to have to come back because you've had a problem with your frame right. Um, no one's perfect. There is just no way to make anything perfect. Uh, and, but we do our best and the amount of work that, um, bill and Kevin and Chris and their teams all do, that's the benefit of a pivot right. All of that work, all those years of experience and what we do on the front end. The end result is a bike that rides the way we want it to ride and is going to not have as many issues hopefully none, but you know I don't want to say none and then be like, hey, the president of pivots, that I would never have an issue, but definitely less than anyone else's. We feel you say no one's perfect.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, and.
Josh:I just listened to the two hour podcast that Richard Cunningham did with with uh and. I'm not sure when it was published. I didn't look at the published date.
Bryan Mason:Uh, that was right around the time we launched the switchblade, so early February, so it's it's relatively new yeah.
Josh:And so talking about the 35 year history of pivot, and in there Richard, who's known Chris forever, you know, basically says that Chris is a absolute perfectionist he is, yeah, he is and so I'm curious how his, like, his, like you know, I guess, goal or objective of perfection, how has that impacted, shaped your culture, your operations, your, your corporate ethos?
Bryan Mason:Oh, I think that's an awesome question. Yeah, it's funny. I love Richard. I've uh. Richard was one of my first mentors in the bike industry, actually. Uh, I showed him trails, uh, back when I worked at Ellsworth. Um, that he had never experienced. He was living in San Diego and he was like, oh my gosh, like I've never ridden this trail and I was in when you got.
Josh:when you show a guy who's like yeah, when you're like hold on, let me show you this trail.
Bryan Mason:And he's like that was a really good trail. Then you're in, and so he and I, we we've always like ridden together and he's just an awesome guy, and funny stories about Richard that I could go on and on about, Uh, and actually that might lead into this a little bit. Yeah, At one point he was like I went to him and I was like hey, I have this opportunity to work at PIV and he's like don't go.
Josh:I was like what. I was like what? And he's tight with Chris too. I was like what are you talking about?
Bryan Mason:And he's like oh, chris, he is, he is the vision behind that brand, he's all these things you know, and I was like, okay, and I think that Chris has been the vision and the drive behind the brand for so long that I probably think when I first started helm whether it's our operations managers, uh, or, you know, our vice president of operations, whether it's our engineering team, um, our customer service staff I mean everyone kind of has adopted this Like we want our customers to have an amazing experience, um, and we are going to do the work necessary for them to have that experience, and so that it's a top down right. I mean it starts with Chris and they see his passion, they see how hard he works. This is the only company I've worked for where I'm pretty sure I'm. I normally think I outwork everyone I don't know. Chris works like crazy.
Bryan Mason:And then I start going through a list and basically everyone here is a workaholic, right, um and it were. But we're also just passionate about what we're doing and it's like you know, I tease you about us being able to fix your problem, uh, about not riding a pivot, but that's because we honestly believe that it's just a better ride, um, and so it starts with someone like Chris and he wants to be perfect and he cares about the product. But all of us have adopted that and it doesn't matter if it's the guy picking your bike. I mean the care that goes in to each product being picked, the care that goes in to them. You guys saw them deckling the fork. I mean I'm not sure if you watched how long he was rubbing out any potential bubble.
Dane:that was on there, right? You said deckling, yeah, sorry.
Bryan Mason:I do a lot of business in Europe and they don't understand decaling, right? So, yeah, sounds so, yeah. So, whether it's decaling the forks, uh, yeah. So everyone has that level of passion. So it starts with Chris, for sure, and we're so lucky to have just a killer group of staff that feel the same way, um, and so we're all bought in, I mean, and that's why we keep, uh, that's why we have uh ex shop owners that end up working for us Uh, you know, for us, you know, and they want to work for our brand. That's why we have people who have been with us 17 years is because it's that passion and we honestly believe what we're producing is just a better product. And that starts with that quest for perfection. And that's why, when you ask Chris, you know what's your favorite bike? He'll always tell you the next one, the next one.
Josh:Yeah, because he's always tell you the next one yeah, because there's, he's always.
Bryan Mason:It's not just that we're always working on something else, it's also that we know that we can find a way to make it better. And if we can't make it better, we won't. We won't put a new bike out, and so we have to find a way to make it better every time.
Dane:One thing I liked about the talon, the 35th anniversary is his acknowledgement of that first bike, that, uh, that bike that he worked on. So it's not like he abandons old stuff no, you know he still appreciates it and he sees that, that heritage and where, where he's come from and uh, so it's not like he. You know that when he's saying something like the next bike, he's not saying the bad, the one before, that was bad, he's just saying yeah, we could just keep getting better.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like when I first got here uh, you know, the bikes were were great. But now I go back and ride a bike that's even two years old and I'm like man, I can't believe how great that bike. How great I thought that bike was uh, you know, and those small industry, I think, uh, you know a lot of analog bikes, uh, bio bikes, whatever you guys want to call muscle bikes.
Josh:Yeah, yeah, whatever we want to call them.
Bryan Mason:You know, we've reached kind of a point where the like full redesign it seems like it's not going to happen the same way, and it's much more refinement now, and I actually think that that's an awesome place to be, that the bikes are so good that we can make them 10% better instead of having to make them 80% better. Right, but that 10% is a big deal, um, and you know, those small changes, they really add up. We were talking about that with the switchblade earlier, you know. I mean, when you look at it on paper, you're like, oh, it's not that different, but when you ride it, it's a completely different experience. Uh, it just goes downhill so much better.
Josh:So, from like a journalistic integrity perspective, I feel like we need to ask a tough question I'm going to throw you a curve.
Bryan Mason:I'm going to throw you a curve, I'm ready. Sure, you can handle it. Okay yeah, okay cool. I mean, I've never been good at baseball, so not just kidding.
Josh:So so why the heck don't you offer an affordable bike for people that are just getting into the sport?
Bryan Mason:Yeah, that's a great question, Um, you know, I said earlier, quality costs money, um, and we have a belief that, like, if we don't want to ride the product, we, we don't want to, we don't want to ride it, we don't want to spec it, um, and that's unique, right? I mean, we could probably sell more units, quote, unquote, if we were to come down market a little bit further. But that really it. You know, no one asks why Porsche doesn't make a $20,000 bike to area car to commute to compete with Toyota, right, like, why aren't? Where is their Nissan Leaf for crying out loud, right? Um, no one ever asked that.
Bryan Mason:And so it's kind of a funny question, like, because people know what Porsche is and people know that that's who they are and that they're engineering their performance led, and so are we, um, and so for us, we welcome everyone, we want everyone to be part of the Pivot family, but we also know that in order to be a Pivot, you can't be everything to everyone, and we're comfortable with that. We're comfortable with being an aspirational product, we're comfortable with being something that is uncompromising. We would have to make compromises that we are not willing to make because it would affect the ride quality. It would affect the experience on the bike.
Josh:I hope your question is better than mine. That was a good answer. It was a great answer. Great answer, better than some answers I've heard.
Dane:Okay, mine's kind of. We were talking about manufacturing and qc and stuff. Um, and I don't know if you'll answer this, but what is the craziest thing you've seen come out of the factory, where you're like what happened?
Bryan Mason:out of our factory, yeah, like it never gets here.
Dane:You don't ever see well I mean we got rejected.
Bryan Mason:It never made it in the three. Yeah, I mean, like that's the thing, it never made it out of taiwan stories that you know you know once, this is the. This is the craziest thing.
Dane:This is what I wanted. This is yeah, it's not actually crazy.
Bryan Mason:It's early and it for us, this is crazy for another brand like this is a common friday right. Um, I was in a bike shop in kentucky. Uh, I was running the. I started here running the us sales so I used to used to visit every bike shop in the country. I was in a bike shop and they're like hey, have you seen this? And it was an Ivet Les and we missed the P. I don't know how, with all the QCs we did, the bike was totally fine, but it was an Ibot, the worst thing you've seen is you were missing the P.
Bryan Mason:We missed the P.
Josh:I want an Ibot so bad, missed the p yeah, which I want.
Bryan Mason:I feel like that should be a t-shirt but um it's it, it's, it's, uh, it's, oh, it will be it was one of those things you know and I was like how in the heck did that happen? And I was taking pictures and sending it back and it was almost like again this might be a common friday for uh, for some brands, but for us the fact that that made it into the wild and it was also like two years old, like it was on the floor, like it was the old model at that point- nobody noticed not even the shop noticed.
Bryan Mason:It only did it one spot right, like it said pivot everywhere. But there was like a smaller down tube and it was, it said, pivot. It said I bought all right.
Josh:Well, if you run into that again, that's the worst. If you run there again that's limited edition.
Dane:Limited edition, yeah.
Bryan Mason:I think we got that one out of the field too. I think we actually ended up replacing it and getting it back.
Dane:That should be on the history wall. Oh it should be. Yeah, well, that's good, yeah, so yeah, I'm very unsatisfied.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, oh, I mean earlier. No one's perfect I saw.
Dane:I saw a picture of a Jamis where the Jamis was upside down Like oh yeah, it's amazing and it made it to the shop. It was a shop picture taken like looking and the bike was fine and they're like we're just going to sell it, like this A sandwich bike?
Josh:Yeah, all right. So, um, what's something that we and our listeners don't know, that would surprise us about Pivot?
Bryan Mason:Yeah, I think we hit on this earlier. I mean, the company is you know, we have over 100 people here. We've got, you know, multiple locations. I think that's the first thing. I think you know we are boutique and we're okay being boutique, but boutique doesn't necessarily have to mean small or tiny, or you know, we're a sizable company. I think that's the first thing.
Bryan Mason:That would surprise some people is how big you actually are. Uh, no, I don't want to use the word big, cause there, there are monsters out there and we are not that, um, but we are. We're certainly an established, professional company with brilliant people I commonly kind of talk about. Like you know, our leadership group would we could take all these guys could go to a fortune 100 company and just slay it. They're brilliant, intelligent people. They're only they're not here, because the you know, I always get angry when I see these articles about how the bike industry is not professional, cause I will tell you, everyone here is freaking brilliant and can be elsewhere and would crush it and run circles around people in a fortune 100 company. They just love bikes, we just love bikes, yeah, and so, um, that's, that's one thing for sure. Um, yeah, and I think that, uh, you know the passion that is there.
Bryan Mason:You know I've used this word a lot, but from the top down, but also from the, you know the bottom up, the amount. There's no day that you're going to go to south mountain and not bump. If you're riding the trails and not see someone at lunch. That's a pivot employee. Not see someone after work, before work, when it's hot, I mean we're, we're out there and like, the reason the product is the way that it is is because we're our own customers. Right, we use that product and we want it to perform that way and that's why that care goes into it. So maybe, maybe, I, maybe. That wasn't a very good answer.
Josh:It was okay.
Bryan Mason:Thanks a lot. I'm okay with it's not too bad.
Josh:I want to comment on something.
Dane:I have an answer that he missed In the bathrooms at Pivot.
Josh:Here we go. We found a QC problem.
Dane:The toilet paper is routed behind instead of in front.
Josh:And I have an issue with that, and I heard that it was the president, that probably oh no, it wasn't you.
Bryan Mason:I do replace a lot of toilet papers.
Josh:Also a sign of a good leader.
Dane:I just use the restroom. Yeah, not that anyone needs to know.
Bryan Mason:This is really going off the rails, guys we went from.
Dane:this isn't a very good answer to I just used the restroom so while I was in there, I put two rolls on for you oh well, I appreciate that way okay, so install number three next door, here we go, we're getting, we're getting the correct way to put the toilet paper I know who did it actually, because he commented on replacing rolls today, so I'll have a talk with him. Yeah, yeah. However, the toilet paper is luxurious it is.
Bryan Mason:That's a chris thing. I it goes down to the toilet paper we use. Guys, I'm not kidding it is.
Josh:You guys think I'm kidding. Right now my butt is so heavy. I think I just found the name of the podcast. Oh my gosh.
Bryan Mason:You guys, there's that much level of detail. It's like this is all.
Dane:And you know I mean all joking aside, like I think our listeners know you got to try the toilet paper dude Before we go.
Bryan Mason:I will. It's Charmin, it's perfect, it's ultra soft.
Josh:Our listeners know that you know, I've spent 10 years in supply chain and I've been in I don't even know a thousand factories, a thousand plants, facilities, whatever. I can honestly say this is one of the cleanest I've ever been in and I and I routinely am in space factories right that are, like you know, clean rooms. So I was, I was kind of blown away. I did not expect I've been in other bike facilities, I did not expect to see like the level of organization and cleanliness and cleanliness and I highly doubt you guys went around and cleaned up for the mountain podcast.
Dane:No, no, no. Everybody was looking at us like who are those guys?
Bryan Mason:I'm going to say we did, but we didn't.
Josh:So it was impressive. And then, as we were walking out, I was like, hey, you know this, you know having a nice workstation in a, in a clean and tidy, you know office that you're working in, everywhere it it kind of sets a mindset for the employees that are there and it's like you, if you're in a perfect place, you want to strive for perfection, or if you're in a, you know, a highly maintained place, you want to strive to show that in your products as well. So it just kind of like I don't know the corporate ethos is like you could see it, like before you even opened your mouth you could see it.
Dane:Yeah, as long as you never look at my garage. That's how we do the shop your shop is similar to that my garage is dialed too. My garage is not dialed.
Bryan Mason:My garage looks like the warehouse.
Dane:Josh came over today and I have to make sure my garage door is down before he shows up.
Josh:I comment on how good the shop is you have like 80 bikes.
Bryan Mason:You were going through a list of how many bikes you have. It's ridiculous I have a million.
Dane:I picked up another one today. Oh my gosh, yeah, you did. Yeah, we were looking at that outside.
Bryan Mason:Well, I mean, it's a bike guys. For those younger listeners A slingshot is an old bike. Yes, we're not shooting it up.
Josh:It might not look like it.
Bryan Mason:He's not taking squirrels down in the backyard. I like. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great mix yeah.
Josh:So, uh, what are you most? Did? I already ask this? What are you most excited about? About the future pivot?
Bryan Mason:Well, I mean I think that we're I'm excited for the continued growth, Like we're our plan. I mean you asked me this at lunch, or you know what, what's your, what's your plan? And you know you guys planning on growing. It's like hell. Yeah, we're not in this for none of us are in this for our health. Guys Like we are passionate about this this is our job, this is our career right.
Bryan Mason:This is what we do Right, and so we believe that there's plenty of growth, and the market is certainly been through a bit of a downturn recently, which I feel like, due to great, great people and great leadership, we've been able to weather quite well, um, but we fully expect to have what we have here, um, represented again in Germany. Uh, we expect to continue to grow and, to you know, I can't wait to be talking about our 200th employee, I can't wait to talk about um, the next bike that comes out, and so I'm excited for the future product, I'm excited for the future of the company and, I think, the bike industry as well. I mean, I feel like those brands that will make it through this, which, you know, we'll all come out significantly stronger and with a better understanding than when we, where we went into this.
Josh:You know you're talking about the post pandemic, yeah, the post pandemic.
Bryan Mason:Well, I mean that bike boom wasn't as much fun as everyone thought it would be either. Guys, that was a lot of work, you know like it's a roller coaster, oh my goodness yeah. And just like you know, you're getting yelled at for not having enough product and now getting yelled at for having too much product. So, that's a yeah, it's a constant, it's catch 22 guys.
Dane:So um, when is a Dr Pepper edition coming?
Bryan Mason:Well, they've done Dr Pepper edition bikes, so you don't know this but, we haven't done them but but there are. Yeah, I mean we'd have to get with the licensing department. I mean I'll have to get working on that.
Dane:Can't you do it on the down low and just maybe not put Dr Pepper, but do the color scheme?
Bryan Mason:But then it's not a Dr Pepper bike, it's just a Ferrandi Marine bike, for context.
Josh:Ryan is addicted to Dr Pepper.
Bryan Mason:Oh yeah, I don't have many vices, Uh and, but that is certainly one of the doctor uh diet Dr Pepper.
Dane:Is that on your list?
Bryan Mason:So I, I used to just do full power, you know, full throttle, yeah, uh, I'm, I'm. I'm now old enough, uh, that I have to go to zero sugar the diet's not for me, okay, zero sugar is the key, yeah.
Josh:So you got them full leaded out.
Dane:Yeah, I did I get you.
Bryan Mason:You know that's a good weekend. Feel right there, that's going in the fanny pack for this weekend.
Dane:You've got to wait until the weekend. You can't show up to work all hopped up on Dr Pepper, don't worry about it. That's a 30-mile ride this weekend, waiting to happen.
Bryan Mason:You know you run that much eco on an e-bike and you better have some Dr Pepper in there, you know one thing we didn't touch on is you're into vintage cars?
Dane:Yeah, talk a little bit about that, because I don't know much about it's. It's mgs yeah, I've had mgs.
Bryan Mason:What is mga versus mgb? Yeah, okay, that's good. So morris, uh, morris garages they were one of the two manufacturers of the mini right? So, uh, my first foray into vintage cars was I owned an austin mini. Austin was the other one, so it was austin and morris. They made minis in in in the uk and I owned in college about a 1960, uh 1964 mini s is this the same thing as a mini cooper? Uh, so the mini cooper, that's evolution, that's not yeah okay, cooper is a mini around, yeah, so that's a it's just a small cooper with john, no deep rabbit hole
Bryan Mason:yeah you're going down. So john Cooper was John Cooper. Uh, the the Cooper name comes from John Cooper was, who was a famous rally cross driver. For many basically so many was an Austin mini or a Morris mini. So I owned a mini in college. It was the S version of the 1275 CC, a little front engine, you know, uh little roller skates uh, yeah, 10 inch drum brakes which, if you guys, yeah, double clutch and double clutch to downshift.
Bryan Mason:If you try being a 24 year old kid in college with your wife in the car, like trying to stop on a dime with that thing, it doesn't work very well, um and uh. So then, yeah, and then I wanted to get back into. You know, I did some when I lived in the Bay area. I had some vintage Vespa scooters and things like that, like I had a you know, rally 200 and some different vintage scooters.
Dane:How many mirrors did it have?
Bryan Mason:Uh, that one just had the one, okay.
Dane:Yeah, and I have more respect for you.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, and those are terrifying. They're step through, but they're terrifying Cause you, you actually have to clutch know you actually have to end.
Bryan Mason:Yeah, the left hand clutches and you move. You know it's first gear, first gears down, and then it's second gear, third gear, and you have to clutch and move and then it's, it's totally a trip, yeah, um, anyways. So that's a unique one. And then you have a foot break and a handbrake. So those were unique and I want to get back into. I wanted to get like a triumph or something.
Bryan Mason:When I moved down in the Bay area and, um, it was. You know, the wife was like you can't have a motorcycle unless you have like a million dollar, you know insurance policy. And so I went and got one and she's like you still can't have a meal, you can't, you still can't have a motorcycle. And so, uh, anyway. So I've always loved vintage cars and and I've, and you know, an MGA which is their roadster. They made it from like a 57 to, you know, mid sixties. Um, there's a small little two seater. Mine was a 16, 1588. So 1600 CC, disc brakes in the front, zero to 60, slower than a Prius, but was a sports car back there, I'm not kidding, 13.8 seconds here is 60, which was fast convertible, yeah, and so I had.
Bryan Mason:I had that car for, uh, for many years. I just sold it during kind of the the same time. Bikes were booming, vintage cars were booming and so I did pretty well selling that. I also bought uh, actually funny story I bought a, the MGB, which is 1970. That was a hatchback version, so I bought the GT version, so that was like a little bit more of a hatchback. And I bought that in Austin during a dealer visit and I drove it a thousand miles home. Wow, stayed in.
Dane:El Paso, that's some serious yeah.
Bryan Mason:A sight unseen. Just got in, bought it and just drove it and it snowed. Uh, I don't know how this happens. Snowed in New Mexico, so I've got, and, like they, these are the best stories. So the route at the heater wrong, it was backwards, so the blower was actually pulling air out so I couldn't even get so like I had to like and the wipers didn't work so I had to like rain exit and I had to like keep you know, keep a rag with me and wipe it down. And I drove that thing through the snow. I blew. Like one of the valves that controls the heater broke, so it was piss and radiator fluid everywhere. And I got that thing all the way home and fixed everything.
Bryan Mason:Uh, so that was, that was was. That was a fun experience. I sold both of those during the pandemic and then um I actually the car that I had most recently was a 1994 acura nsx which is a very special car. Yeah, there's a drawing of one in my office. Uh, and I learned to drive stick on that. Um, manual on that.
Bryan Mason:My dad had one when I was in high school and, man, that was like the essence of cool if you were in the split window, one where it's got a the, the nsx, yeah, no, it's the all aluminum body, okay, very tiny a cockpit of like an f15 is or f14 is what it was based off of and, uh, it was the first vtech engine for honda. Um, yeah, and the thing was like 8200 rpm, uh, redline, and so it was like a motorcycle. It was awesome, yeah, uh, like a 2,800 pound, like rocket ship, um, and so I actually had one of those, uh, and I just sold that during, you know, during this big boom of cars as well, uh, and that was uh, and mine was built. Mine had like 440 wheel horsepower and, instead of the two 70, it came from, and yeah, so yeah, so I love.
Josh:did you have a bike rack on it?
Bryan Mason:No, Uh yeah, that's been the thing that holds me up. You know, I still have my old, my old Tundra.
Dane:That's my, that's my go-to and he's got a Tundra and I got a Sequoia. Yeah, I mean, it's never going to break.
Bryan Mason:I'm just going to. That's my truck.
Josh:Until I'm dead, I'll be buried in it, I'm sure my first one at 300,000 miles on it it's going to outlive me for sure.
Dane:They're pretty amazing. We've lost everybody at this point.
Bryan Mason:Oh yeah, they're like, why are? You guys talking about cars on a bike. You asked man, we may cut that stuff off.
Dane:Yeah, you should probably. I did all this research he wanted to show it Last.
Bryan Mason:Thing.
Dane:I'll tell you in my, I'm a dad too. They're a trip, yeah, man.
Bryan Mason:So, and one of them is just like me, and that's a bad thing.
Dane:They getting into like it is? Are they getting into riding at all?
Bryan Mason:Uh, no man.
Dane:Oh, so are you doing the? I don't want to push them because yeah. So I'm right there with you.
Bryan Mason:It's not working for early, early on, like I like I was at a Euro bike and I saw this thing called the Sphero Velo which was like could teach them balance, but it was even smaller. You could have like a 10 inch standover height. So basically, if you could, you could walk, you could be on this thing. So of course I bought, I got our distributor in Europe to buy one for me and send it over Right. Like so I had one and like so my kids have been on balance bikes and Schreider bikes since before they could walk basically, and uh yeah, neither of them have like any interest. I mean, my youngest daughter has been mountain biking twice with me and like, like, if it goes downhill and you guys have ridden with me, I like you're good, I'm a decent rider, but like these girls, if it, if it like has an incline of like negative one degrees, there I'm out.
Bryan Mason:Uh yeah, it's really funny's really funny and so, yeah, I'm not pushing them at all. Uh, and so neither of them. The 11 year old and the nine year old, they seem to have like zero interest three dads that tried to don't push them and it hasn't worked for any of us. Let's just take away their agency, make them do it. I'm just like do it, kid.
Dane:You're right, you want to drive you ride, I will say mine are into it and in fact you're lucky oh, that's right. Jilly is yeah, so is turner turner as well, turner's just not as fast, so it's harder to go with him. And jilly likes night riding they both do, actually um so like tomorrow night we're doing a kid's night ride on wednesday nights. Yeah, so we, we do that, and I'll tell you one of the secrets for both of you, jody bartz yeah, is who helped my daughter.
Dane:she does a a thing in t, she's a coach in Tucson and she's doing something with the Arizona trail called grow, grow, grow, grow, yeah, yeah.
Josh:And shout out to Jody, because she's taking those young like seven to 14 year old girls and she and getting them on. Yeah.
Dane:So it's like a lot of things, If, if I try and teach my daughter something and teach my daughter something she's not really paying attention.
Bryan Mason:Dads are idiots. Yep, exactly, I love you. Guys knew this. The moment you become a dad, you know nothing.
Dane:Yeah, it's just science and she was in this environment with a bunch of other girls about her age and I'll tell you. If you want a last-ditch effort, try and find that up here. Or Jody, get a hold of Jody because she's awesome, but it's helped, and so my kids definitely have the passion. When people ask them what's your favorite sport, yeah, it's often Turner will say I love math and I love mountain biking. Like I love that about him. It's a cool mix and my daughter usually is volleyball and mountain biking.
Bryan Mason:Oh cool, that's awesome yeah.
Josh:So there's, hope, man. Well we'll see what happens with the lottery. Hey brother, you got any final thoughts for our listeners? Anything you want to leave them with, any?
Bryan Mason:Uh, yeah, I mean anyone who is a pivot customer, you know, thank you. Uh, I mean, there are a ton of people here, there are bike shops throughout the world that you know depend on you as a customer, and there's hundreds of of our, our friends here that are grateful for you guys to have me made that call. And if you're not, I totally understand. There's a lot of great bikes out there, but hopefully, you know, hopefully we're, we're in contention for the next one, Cause there are a lot of amazing people here behind the brand that care about, uh, that care about your experience on a bike and they're working hard every day to try to give that to, to our, to our customers. So that's awesome.
Josh:Right now, man Well, thank you so much for the great ride today, for bringing a bike for me to try out, for trying to convert me.
Dane:Thanks for coming up.
Bryan Mason:Thanks for smoking me on the trail. I'm going to be coughing all the way home. No, it was a good. It was. We had a good social pace it was. It was great.
Dane:But don't say that because I was panting like you wouldn't believe you and Bill were just yeah, I've never I haven't smoked, I haven't sucked in that much dust in a long time.
Bryan Mason:It's a. We just know the trails.
Dane:Yeah.
Bryan Mason:Full power e-bike. There's a lot of reasons why that happened, yeah.
Josh:All right. Well, thank you so much. Really appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Hey, what's up? This is Josh from the Mountain Cod Podcast. You got questions, comments or feedback? Well, we'd love to hear from you. Shoot us an email. You can send it to mountaincog at gmailcom, digging the show. There's a couple things you could do to help us out. First, you could tell your friends about Mountain Cog, and also it would be great if you'd give us a good rating and review over at Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen. We appreciate y'all. Go ride, keep the rubber side down.