A Rollercoaster of Automation with Linda Freeman (Linkedin Live)

Nikki and Ali G sat live with Linda Freeman, an Industry Manager and longtime employee at Rockwell Automation.

They look at the importance of functional safety and cybersecurity skills in the industry,  the need for continuous learning, and using traditional gender roles to one's advantage.

Check out the original live episode here.

Transcript

 Hello, and welcome to another live episode of Automation Ladies. I am one of your hosts, Nikki Gonzalez, head of partnerships at QuoteBeam. I think I haven't done a proper introduction in a while. I just,  pretend, I think everybody that watches us have already seen us.  There's probably always new people too.

So welcome. If you don't know us, welcome to Automation Ladies.  My co host Allie G is right there below me. Allie, you want to say hi? Hi everyone.  Okay. Well, that was short and sweet.  I want to give a huge shout out and a thank you to, um, our sponsor Rockwell Automation for getting us in touch with Linda Freeman.

Uh, I want our audience to know again, if you're familiar or not familiar with us, we are. Not a heavily produced show. Um, I was just talking to Linda about this right before we came on it. This would be a lot easier to do if we didn't also have jobs and businesses and stuff like that. But, uh, yeah, we, we run around and do a lot of things and we managed to get on here on time with the music and everything worked out.

I think we're actually live on LinkedIn right now. Um, but one of the things that we really care about on the show is, uh, the reasons that we started this is we wanted to showcase, uh, more. Women and other people that maybe traditionally don't see themselves in the industrial automation industry so that we can have more role models, see into more types of careers, how people got into this industry, what they love about it and, um. 

We have realized that running a podcast and a show is kind of hard. It requires a lot of resources. So we really appreciate companies, uh, pitching in and helping us and sponsoring if they kind of think that this mission is worthwhile, but we've also, it was made a point to say like, we're, we're not going to take money from anybody.

If we, if it's somebody we don't want to talk about, if it's a product, we don't want to promote, right. We're not going to do that. We're not influencers or promoters. So when, you know, when Rockwell came and say, Hey, we want to sponsor. I was a little bit afraid who they would throw at us. And if I would have to say, no, we don't want to talk to this person.

Not to say that we don't want to talk to people at Rockwell, just the industry at large. Um, there's a lot of people that, You know, they have  they have the ability to go speak on any stage, right? Rockwell is like the biggest automation company in the world. Linda and, you know, so many of their other executives could go on any other show, uh, and, you know, get their message out, get heard.

We have, you know, just a particular, you know, focus on our show. And I was so stoked when we got introduced to Linda as the person that was going to come on, because as soon as I looked at her LinkedIn profile, I was like, yes, I want to talk to her.  So thank you. Thank you so much, Linda, for joining us today, especially because I know you've been a little bit under the weather this week.

So we really appreciate you being here. Yeah. So we as Rockwell Automation, we love What you guys are doing when we look at the things that we support in community, we're really big about creating that next generation, that next pipeline of technologists, whether you're a maintenance person working in a facility, or whether you're the plant engineer, we know, whatever the role is, we need more diverse talent in the workforce.

And so anything we can do. Here at Rockwell Automation to support people like yourselves that are helping to create that community. That's why we were so excited to find you guys. And I got to say thanks to you, Nikki and Allie, for everything you do, because it is a lot of work to put on a podcast and bring together a community and give a place for people to come to where they feel like they're at home with people that are working in the same area they work at.

So I'm just excited to be here as part of the party. Thank you so much. And I want to give a huge shout out, um, to some of our friends over at Rockwell. Allie, do you want to tell the story of your hat again? Yes. Um, so, uh,  the whole story, um, yeah. So maybe an abbreviated version. Yeah, this is, this is Linda's show.

Sure, sure. No, uh,  um, I, uh, my career as a controls engineer, uh, basically has been. Entirely, uh, Rockwell automation, just actually compact logics. Um, and then I moved into SCADA and actually my business right now has a gigantic, uh, contract that is all Rockwell automation, everything. But at one point, um, you know, cause I've already kind of been supporting this, uh, rock factory top.

I was supporting factory talk and, um, I was online and, uh, you know, Complaining and, uh, Michael Anthony, um, which actually that. Factory talk is his baby. So shout out to Michael Anthony. So he actually reached out and was like, you know, I worked on this for a really long time and like, I want to help you succeed with it and just totally turned around everything that I said.

And, um, yeah, was just became like a friend and when I went to, uh, when we went to go like talk at the automation fair, uh, uh, on the pulpit panel, uh, this last year, uh, when I was there, he's like, I have something for you. Like, come find me. Uh, you look on the shop floor or on, sorry, on the like show floor.

Um, and yeah, so he gave me this hat,  my first, like, you know, hat by someone from Rockwell automation, like just handing me a hat and, um, you know, So I will treasure this forever. Um, yeah, that's the story. And, but I think there's a lesson in there, right? The lesson is when you're trying to figure something out, you know, reach out.

There are great communities online. Um, we have a wonderful tech support line. I know sometimes as women, we have this, Like, oh my God, I should just figure this out. I should be smart enough to know how to do this and we don't wanna ask for help, but go ask for help. 'cause there's people out there that that's what their job is.

And guaranteed, he went home that day and he was so happy because he was like, man, I, I really helped somebody. Fix their problem. And that's what makes them happy, right? Cause they want  help. And so I, I think that's great that you reached out for help and you got help. And I'd share that with everybody listening is don't struggle.

Ask for help. There's nothing wrong with asking for help.  Yeah. And then Mike Clark is the one that brought us to the pulp and paper, uh, forum to talk about collaboration. So I just want to give a big shout out to him as well, because he's the reason we came to automation fair and it was a really great experience and we're really looking forward to being back this year.

I love Mike. He's a great example of an ally. Yes. Someone that really reaches down to the younger generation, helps them to learn, helps to make connections. He, he's been wonderful in my career. I love Mike.  Very cool. And thank you for everybody that's joining us. Please let us know in the chat. Say hi.

Maybe where you're joining from. We have, uh, unfortunately if you're restricted, there's a certain profile setting where we can't see who you are in this backend. It'll show on LinkedIn, but somebody said hi, Linda. Somebody that knows you clearly. Uh, and Jennifer. Hi, Jennifer. Thanks for joining.  And we have Luke Lee here.

Congrats on the clear path robotics acquisition. Yes. Yeah. So Rockwell's been in the acquisition mode lately. Um, another, uh, we have an upcoming panel discussion that Courtney Fernandez is going to lead on AMRs. And so we're hoping to get somebody from auto on as well, which is another recent acquisition on the robotic space. 

But yeah, lots of innovation going on. Um, sometimes, you know, with big companies, it's easy to focus on some of the legacy things and, you know, come complain about licensing or this or that, but it's like, you guys are so big, there's so many things you're doing. It's very exciting. Uh, but sometimes can also feel overwhelming to those of us that don't know all your business lingo and all these different aspects of the business.

Um, Hey, Doris. Thank you for joining us. She's from Boston. Um, our signal, they're a signaling company from Austria. Oh, and my Clark is here. Thank you. Thank you for joining Mike. Uh, she says, Linda's too humble. She was my spirit guide into this role. Oh yeah.  So many great relationships in this industry. If you stick around long enough.

Uh, and that's another, You know, not to talk too much. I want to interview Linda, but I think some of us, especially women, we come into the industry. There's already not enough of us, right? Because some of us get not enough are going into college for engineering. A lot of us get weeded out at that level.

Then we come into industry and maybe we start with a company that doesn't have a great culture or doesn't have great support, or you're the only woman in the department.  Please don't leave the industry. Come find some group, some place where you can find somebody to help you or confide in. Ask for help.

Ask for mentorship. Um, I was always way too, like you said, Linda, like, I should be able to do it on my own. I shouldn't ask for help. Uh, and I realized I would say way too late in my career that that's not the way things need to be. Yeah, anyway, so I just want to say that, uh, we got, oh, thank you, Jill, for joining us from Rolla.

Um, I actually just, the interview we did yesterday for the podcast, which will come out in a couple weeks with, uh, Yamini, Yamini, she's, she also attended, uh, Missouri S& T at Rolla. So we've got a few friends from there.  So yeah, it's great to see people joining us. Thank you. Um, and I guess we'll get started with our first question for Linda, which is really one of our two formalized questions that we ask on the show is, can you give us a bit of introduction to your background, how you got into engineering?

And then how did you get to be an industry manager at Rockwell, uh, for the things that you are in charge of? If I remember correctly, entertainment, uh, airports, logistics, you got a lot under your umbrella, right? Yeah, it's, it's lots of fun moving people, packages, baggage. Um, I actually accidentally fell into engineering again through Through friendship and just having friends, a friend actually encouraged me to go into engineering.

And then when I was in school, I wanted to do co ops and interns and I went and worked for Procter and Gamble in Kansas City, Kansas, making Dawn dishwashing liquid. And I instantly fell in love with manufacturing. I mean, it was just, So fascinating to watch these raw materials come in on street cars, get put in these huge kettles that were over a hundred years old.

And within hours, it was spitting out Don dishwashing liquid. And then I also learned, you know, what makes Don dishwashing liquid so wonderful, the ingredients, you really get to know a product when you work in a plant and you see how it's made. And then when I was interviewing in college and Rockwell found me actually at a society of an engineer's conference.

And I was like, wait, hold on. You mean I get to go to a different facility every day, I get to see different processes every day, I get to help them make the processes more efficient, and then I get to go somewhere else the next day? Like, where do I sign up? Yeah. And it's just so much fun. I like to tell people my, my job's like an episode of how it's made, you know, every day.

My friends know they can't go anywhere without me looking at something. Like I'll even pick up a bottle, right? And I'll be like, Oh, look at the seams on this. You know, they're injection molding. You know, it's just, it's so cool to be able to see the world through the eyes of manufacturing and everything we do from the clothes we wear to the food we eat, the medicine we take,  we get to be a part of that.

Um, and that's why I've stayed with Rockwell so long. It's just, it's so much fun. Rockwell is a great company. I worked in sales for many, many years, kind of an Traditional path, non traditional path for an engineer. Um, but I found that I really loved helping people solve problems and often people think that selling is talking when actually the most important skill for selling is listening.

And listening to what people's problems are and then pulling out from that. You know, what are they really saying? That's what they said, but what did they really say? What do they really need? Um, and then I did sales for quite a few years, 20 years, and then I went into this industry manager, industry lead role, same type job, my cast.

And what we do is we support our sellers. We work with marketing, we attend trade shows, and then we work on future technology and business roadmapping. So I get to work in all different levels of the company and then also with different clients. So it's been, it's been a ton of fun. I live in Orlando, Florida, and that's how I got into the theme park business.

If you've been on a ride in the United States, a roller coaster, um, probably was controlled by Alan Bradley, PLC fives or slick five hundreds and now guard logics, um, we're pretty dominant in that industry. Same thing with baggage handling. We do a lot. If you think about, um, Everything a bag has to go through from the time that you drop it off when you drop off your bag to sorting it downstairs to getting it to the right flight to getting it to the connecting place.

Well, what if you check in early? Where are they going to store your bag? It's this huge puzzle. The baggage handling industry is absolutely fascinating. And it's amazed down there, you know, miles and miles of conveyor keeping track of all these bags. So that's a really fun industry. And then warehouse and logistics, you know, that industry is really changing.

COVID drove us to direct to consumer, you know, a lot more of buying individual things, not just shipping pallets to stores. Companies like Procter and Gamble and Nike and retailers not wanting to sell through Amazon and wanting to set up their own.  Shop to sell things direct to consumer. So that industry is really changing.

And then our acquisition of auto looking at how even the manufacturing floors changing and how warehouses are changing that we want to have dynamic routing. We don't want to have fixed conveyor. We want to be able to add things and change them. And that's really where amrs come in.  So it's always been I've been in the industry 27 years.

It's. Technology has always changed. There's always a new challenge. And I just, I think it's just a great place to work. I couldn't agree with you more.  I, uh,  I did not know much about manufacturing before I started in the industry. Um, factory automation kind of also,  I ended up there by, I don't know, chance.

But once I saw it and once I got a taste of, you know, getting into all those different facilities and seeing how all these different places run and, uh, I mean, it was just fascinating. I started in machine vision, so it was a lot of quality inspection. Um, I dealt with also laser markers and barcode readers.

So like you, I would look at the bottle, but instead of the seam, I would look at, uh, the date code. Or the lock code or like the label placement, um, because a lot of the machine vision inspection back when I was doing it was like looking for skewed labels or mismatched or, you know, missing date codes and things like that, or just OCR  reading the codes, um, at super high speeds, uh, And just then you also start to learn the difference between, like, consumer technology and industrial technology.

And I think from the layman's terms, like, from a consumer side, it can seem completely baffling as to why we don't just run everything on Linux and, you know, giggy cameras or these sort of like raspberry pie. It's easy. And, um, and then you realize, like, in these industrial scenarios, You have, okay, you're controlling a roller coaster with people inside.

That's people's lives at stake roller coaster or any kind of production, you know, facility. And this thing has to, you know, be out there potentially for 20 years and not fail. And, you know, it's just, it's so much to learn constantly. I love it. I left the industry for a little while and I had to come back. 

Ali, do you have anything to say? I know you work on airports too. Oh, I have. Um, and yeah. That it is exciting down there with the miles and miles and I also like realize like why because I've like had the like wheels ripped off of my like line bag, like, oh, I get why that happens. Now. I'm just seeing that.

But I was thinking, I'm really glad that like, they're using guard logics and all those now because I, I myself don't really like, um,  The the extremeness of roller coasters. I know that's like a huge thing for a lot of people and like the last time I tried I think it was six flags because I used to live in gurney When I was in illinois, and so I went to six flags and i'm sure there's a ton of rockwell in there but Um, I went on some ride and it was just like I this is not for me I can like I can make myself freak out A lot of other different ways, but, um, I'm so glad that, like, yeah, GuardLogix, um, and PLC5, so that's really cool.

Um, Yeah, are they still running out there? Are they are there still theme parks running PLC 5? Oh, yeah, there's a large installed base, but anything new that goes in goes in safety systems. And so that's that's 1 thing. That's real big in that industry is understanding functional safety and that would be a tip.

I give your listeners if you're looking for. You know, there's always things you can do in automation to specialize to make yourself stand out. And 1 of the things that we're really lacking in industry is engineers, especially controls engineers that really understand functional safety. Some of the best controls engineers for safety or people that have a mechanical background.

Whether they were a mechanical technician, or maybe they got a mechanical engineering degree, but they love to do things with their hands, and they understand the physics and the moment arms of how things move. And then they put the controls on top of that, but then it's a whole nother skill set. When you start talking about functional safety, understanding how to do risk assessment, and then from risk assessment, defining your safety functions, the way that you program a safety rated PLC is very different.

Different the way you program a standard PLC. And so to understand those differences, there's, I know many of the clients I work with in the amusement industry, I mean, they are just, they're hurting for functional safety engineers that can do that type of programming. So that would be a tip I'd give, give,  go learn, go learn safety, um, get safety certified, get some training in it.

You'll definitely set yourself apart and TV is a good certification for that. Right. Yeah, Rockwell's partnered with TUV Rhineland. We offer training for them. Functional safety engineer training. There's also some other companies that partner with other TUVs like Sud. Um, so there's a couple of different options, but yeah, it's a, it's a hot market.

You definitely would be set for a career for life. If you went into safety. Cyber security too, you know, that's a growing area is to have controls engineers that Understand how the O. T. Networks work, but then what all the hazards are and the threat vectors for things coming into the control system. So, like me personally, those were 2 areas.

I decided to focus in with safety and cyber security because I just saw a lot of need in industry. And to be perfectly honest, not a lot of women. There's a lot of women that have that skill set and so it's, you know, 1, you set yourself apart with the knowledge, but then. It's it's easy for the clients to say, Oh, yeah, I could definitely use those two skill sets.

And oh, we'd love to diversify our talent pool as well. So, um, I, I would encourage that for women. I think, um, one of my coworkers is in the chat. I believe she was going to share the, the NIST cybersecurity framework. That's a free document by the U S government. You can go and read that  and if, um, I can post it in the chat later if we don't have a link to it, but just search the NIST cyber security framework.

Just read that and understand it. You'll be a step ahead of a lot of controls engineers that don't have a cyber background. Yeah. No, that's, that's a really good point. And, um, we were just recently at an OT networking, uh, training Allie and I, uh, with our friend Josh Varghese from Josh Varghese. Sorry, I said it wrong.

We, we figured this out, Allie, you were right. Um,  from Traceroute and OT networking. As a specialty also is something that, you know, isn't necessarily always part of the skill set for controls engineers, but it's incredibly important for I. T. That's really strange. Yeah. Or network engineer specifically and then just became.

You know, uh, controls engineers, they have it on it, which there's people out there that have done that. But outside of that controls engineers are traditionally not don't know what they need that gateway for. Yeah, or how to configure it or how to manage it or why it's important. What is subnet mask? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's impossible to get away with that now. You need to know that now. Everybody. Yeah, I want to throw up a few comments. Um, I love it when the audience interacts. So Scott, uh, nice to see you. He says PLC 5 will outlast control logics.  I think, you know, that is something to be said about things in the past were a little bit simpler.

They were a little bit, you know, robustness is important, but as complexity increases, how do you balance robustness and complexity and capability? Right. So as we start to build out all these, like, now that we have a bunch of software in a lot of systems, we have to worry about software bills and materials and, you know, bugs that may come with that from some software kernel that was built by not you, right?

Like, as we get more sophisticated with all of this, there's also more security concerns. There's more doc, you know, things that we have to worry about. So, and, and I think all of us from this industry, we, we know that, you know, systems get complex and there's always pros and cons to things. Um,  stuff.

Obviously, I'm sure that Rockwell is taking great pains to make the new stuff last a long time also, but you do definitely have a track record. And I think that's why, you know, the installed base is so big is because that stuff has been around for a long time and it works.  But to be honest, though, it is changing, right?

And the analogy I always use is back when we had a flip phone, I didn't get an iOS update. Every couple of months to my flip phone. Right? But my flip phone was also just my flip phone. It could only make a phone call. I could send a text message, and I think it had a calculator. Maybe a, a newer version could do a camera.

But if you look at what an iPhone can do nowadays, I mean, it's a small computer. But I have to worry about hacking and viruses, and I have to do my iOS updates. And so with greater features and flexibility also comes greater responsibility. And that's what control systems of today are when you look at the logics platform, control, logics, guard, logics.

It's got tons of more features, tons of more connectivity, you can pull data out of the system, you can do all sorts of things with it. But with that does come the responsibility of knowing what's on your network, what's it hooked to, and ensuring the integrity of that system is not going to be impacted by a cyber event.

And so, yeah, we have a few more things to learn and to keep up with.  What I think of it as, it's job security for all of us. You know, if they thought they needed us in the past, they really need us now.  Yeah, our friend Morgan Wilson from SVT Robotics, they're a really cool platform that ties together, uh, like an overlay to allow you to communicate with and give directions to any kind of AMR.

I'm sure including the, I know they're partners with Otto.  So that's another thing. I think as we get more complex, our ecosystems get more complex. We also have much more of a need to collaborate with each other in the industry, right? Because now that everything talks, we kind of can't just say, well, use all of my stuff and just air gap your machine.

And, you know, we're the only ones you have to deal with. And we're fine. Now, as much as, you know, maybe we want to  kind of keep everything as much as we can to one vendor, you're never going to have that simplicity again, you're going to be talking to third parties, you're going to have installed bases of different types of products.

And so it's great to see kind of, I think, more of an opening up as well, as we realize the complexity of all of this, we kind of have a joint responsibility to also, you know.  I don't know, make it work for the customer together. And, and companies like SVT are great because they're coming in as kind of a third party that says, Hey, you have these different AMRs.

Great. We can help you program all of them together. Would you say that Rockwell, um, is also kind of moving in that direction of having more partnerships, more ways that you can. Kind of for the customer expand your ecosystem for a better lack of a better term. Yeah. So we definitely have expanded our partner network.

Um, if you go on our website and go up to the top and go under partners, we've been expanding that. And then we've also been looking at, like, I'll take an example of a recent acquisition. We did the verb, um. That's a company we just purchased and they have a cyber security tools and asset management tool.

And one of the things that really attracted us about that tool is the fact that it's vendor agnostic. It doesn't just gather our hardware's information. It gathers information of anything that's on the network of the control system because you're right. Not every company. I mean, even at Rockwell, we know we don't make every single thing you need, which is why we build out our partner network.

Okay. And work closely with them. But we also have to have tools that are vendor agnostic. And I think it's interesting, you know, we talked a little bit before coming on here live about  how industry has changed and working from home and building out our own personal networks. Just as our systems at work have gotten more complex.

I think the environment's We're working in are also more complex. And just like you have to reach out and get to know all those other vendors tools. We also need to reach out and build a community. And so 1 of the challenges that I wanted to give the group today is, and I think all the users, they can, they can see other people in the chat.

Right? Yep. So if you're somebody watching this right now, and you want to make a new contact in industry, say hello in the chat so people can see your name. And I challenge everybody to reach out and make 2 connections on LinkedIn this week of someone that you've either seen. Post a comment in automation ladies, or maybe someone that's been in the chat today, or even reach out to me, um, do it on your desktop.

I'll give you my LinkedIn trick. So, my, my LinkedIn trick is you go on LinkedIn on your desktop and when you send someone a connection, you can add a note and you've got like 300 words where you can write a little sentence. And so what I like to do is. Is I'll send like when I first met Nikki and Allie, I sent them an invite and said, Hey, I'm so looking forward to talking to you on the automation ladies podcast.

So then when I go back and look at that person six months from now, three years from now, I can remember where I met them and I can remember where I made that connection. So that's my little secret trick. People think I have this great memory. No, I just write it down.  But, and not even like you have to write it down somewhere else.

Just in that workflow where, you know, you're going to encounter that person again on LinkedIn, you can see that message. I think it's genius. I send too many connection requests on my phone, um, to where you, you know, don't have that. And sometimes that happens. I like run into someone and I'm like, Hey, I know you.

Oh yeah. We're connected, but I really don't remember why or how if I did, I asked for the connection or if you did. Um, so that is a super solid tip. And I will also add to that because people ask me sometimes, you know,  My advice is or my secret to success of having a big network. Um, and I, I always laugh.

I think it's the Maybe I don't know if it's a woman thing or what, but I'm always just like, Oh, I've got nothing like Ali. It's got like way more than me.  But the way I did that is precisely what you said, Linda, the first place that I remember meeting some of the, my best, you know, connections on LinkedIn.

Now it's, I attended some LinkedIn live event like this and Jake Hall gave us the Direction to go network in the comments, you know, hit that networking tab and check who else was at this event  and not only I also participated in the discussion of the event.  And that was the 1st time I think I had a call with Jake afterwards because we connected.

And I met Evan White, who is in PR. He had his own independent PR firm at the time. Then I ran into him at Automate when he was working for  Factory Fix. Factory Fix became one of our first sponsors because of that.  And I never would have, you know, Met him under other circumstances and that kind of relationship developed,  and Allie and I met on LinkedIn.

By the way, if people don't know this,  we did. We were not best friends before we started the show. We didn't know each other. Um, so LinkedIn really can, it is an online place, but it can foster these real in person. Mm-Hmm connections, business relationships, you know, employment relationships. Uh, don't take this for granted.

This kind of community. Um.  Yeah, and that's that is a fantastic tip, Linda, that I think everyone should follow because it is it can get hard, especially, you know, if it has been a few months since you talked to someone or as your network grows and gets bigger, just keeping track of who's who and where you met them is really important.

So thank you for that. But also starting out early in your career. So, yeah. Let's say you're, you're working on a system and you talk with someone in Rockwell tech support, and then you work with someone else at another company. Like I've gotten my new year's resolution a couple of years ago was every single person I interact with gets a LinkedIn connection for me.

I usually try to do it within 48 hours of when I met them. It's just part of my normal workflow. I get online to do my email and I send my invites for whoever I had meetings with that day. Because having, having your personal network is so. So, um, you know, I love your story, Nikki, about how, you know, the one webinar led all the way to this, right?

You just never know what a connection is going to bring. And that's something that us as women, we're so good at is building networks, but sometimes I think in our professional life, maybe we feel a little hesitant to do that. And I would just encourage everyone to lean into that skill and lean into getting to know each other in this community. 

Yeah, do it early. I actually did a good job of this early on, not knowing that it would benefit me later back when LinkedIn was more of a resume place. I, I was in sales and I would go to trade shows and things. And I did make a point to, if I had somebody's business card to try to go find them on LinkedIn and connect if we had done business together or met in person and just over 10 years or so, I ended up with about 7, 000 connections just that way.

Just people I had actually met in person. Some.  Time that I otherwise might not have followed up with, but that familiarity that it just, it's, it's a, it's a network effect that even when you're not so confident in going out and talking to people online that you don't know, start with connecting to the people that you do know, like you said, that's, that's a great tip as well, Linda, it actually now always surprises me when I deal with someone  not on LinkedIn, and then I go find them and I find they don't have a LinkedIn profile or their company doesn't.

I'm like, Whoa, whoa, What is this? Who  are you? That should be our first tip. If there's anybody on here that does not have a LinkedIn profile, please go create one. Yeah, if you're watching this on YouTube, which I don't think we have a ton of like followers watching, but you never know, these things also live forever.

So somebody might listen to this two years from now. Yeah. Uh, if you're not on LinkedIn,  Make sure if you're in any kind of professional capacity whatsoever, where you might connect with people, uh, that's a great place for it. Also, I mean, one of the reasons I thought to use it initially was like, it's great to know when people move jobs, because usually if like, let's say you're in sales and you have a great relationship with the customer.

Sometimes that person moves jobs and then you're like, Oh no, I don't know what happened to that person or where they went. Now that relationship carries through no matter what your career changes. Um, I'll give one more shout out to Sarah Larson, who,  uh, we got to know when she was at E Plan most recently after having been at Rockwell for, I don't know, also almost 30 years.

And guess what? She just came back to Rockwell this year. Yes, she's back. I know you guys are a big org, so go find her. Yeah, I love Sarah.  But like now I, it's very easy for me to stay in touch with Sarah because her. LinkedIn message, you know, inbox is still the same, even though her email address has changed and all that good stuff.

So  how about we talk about some other tips, some other tips that we had talked about in our, our pre meeting. I know that a career in sales is not typical for a technical person. And a lot of people ask me like, well, how did you get into that? Oh, you had to be a great public speaker. Um, and public speaking is not something that everyone's born with, and it takes practice.

And so another tip I wanted to share with people is  every minute of every day in your job, you're trying to sell your idea, whether it's, you think that the control system should be designed this way, or whether you think, no, we're having the problem and we should fix it that way.  Everything we do all the time is about selling ideas.

And so we really want to have that as like a muscle and a skill that we're all comfortable with.  And so finding ways where you can speak, that's why I love coming on podcasts like this. It helps me to practice my muscle of public speaking. Um, whether you start out by just volunteering at a local school.

Some of my very first speaking engagements was I volunteered for junior achievement.  And I went and taught budgeting and math classes to middle school students because they don't know, right? They just see this older person coming in to teach them. They don't know if I'm stumbling over my words or don't know what to say.

So it was a great place to practice. And then also Toastmasters is another really good place to practice skills. Of public speaking, but then also, I know, sometimes I get annoyed at this. I'll be in a meeting and maybe I'm the only female in the room and then they'll turn to me and go, oh, Linda, will you take notes  and I used to get annoyed at that and then I learned I'm like, you know, what?

Taking notes is actually a very important skill. So let's break it down. You got to be an active listener.  You got to sometimes listen to people talking over each other, or you can be the one in the room telling people to stop talking over each other because you're the one that has to take the notes. 

But then you're active listening to what they're saying. You need to be able to take what they've said, which sometimes they're,  you know, notificating  and you've got to barrel that down into a few succinct words. Pull out the action item of what that is. And then when you send out the meeting notes, the best meeting notes, the ones that are concise, have all the information and then clearly track the action items.

That's like a muscle that you can practice for public speaking. So don't be annoyed when someone asks you to take notes, even volunteer yourself. And then when the next meeting rolls around, volunteer at the beginning of the meeting to go, Hey, I'd like to read over the notes. From last time to make sure you guys remember what all was said.

And then let's look at the action items. It gives you an opportunity to start to be a leader and then also practice that communication skill that I think is so important. Um, and I would love to hear from from you guys, Nikki and Ali, like, where do you see in your jobs and your everyday life? We're like.

Having clear communications has really helped you do your job better.  Oh, my God. Even just on the notes itself. Um, I'm a terrible note taker and was not actually. I think other people are doing this and they got to stop like me,  not mandating that notes even be taken at meetings. Every meeting needs meeting notes because we will not remember.

There's just no way. Yeah. And, and as you get, you know, further into your career, you're, you're literally going to take, you're going to have more meetings. Um, you know, like, as you start off, you're not included in as many things, but like, as they start including you in everything, which as soon as you show like, that you're capable, like, they're going to dump everything on you.

And that's when you just like, you should take it with open arms. And do like everything that Linda just said, um, including, and then in terms of conversations, like, um, absolutely. Um, uh, talk to, talk to everyone in your job, even though engineers are not talkative. I understand that, but if you're, you look at it as you're solving your customers, you know, Issue, and you're there for them anyway.

And even in a company, you may your, your customer may be another group. Maybe operations is your customer. Somebody is your customer, whether you're a business or you're a, you're a sick, your own salesperson. I totally love that  because I always thought that I would be a terrible salesperson until I realized that I was selling myself.

In the interviews, I was like, Oh, I like you interviewing for a job is pure sales. And once you realize that you're like, Oh,  well, if I'm just going to sell me, that kind of makes sense. And then you're like, well, I'll just sell things that I understand and believe in. And then you can sell whatever, you know, whatever you really do.

Um, so, yeah, but it is really sales and, um, relationships and talking to people is a humongous part of business, um, and how the world works and how factories get along and how people in, in fact, we have projects move forward, um, and miscommunication or lack of communication is how jobs are lost. Uh, money is lost, how.

Uh, accidents are happening.  It's basically everything comes down to communication. It is one of the most important things. Uh, in business, in engineering, in, uh, in manufacturing period, and I think as our systems get more complicated and we have more things we have to interface with and more pieces put together, it's even more important to have that communication in functional safety management.

We talk about a thing called systematic failure. You've got failure of hardware and technology can fail, but when they talk about in functional safety management is. The most highest risk thing that's going to fail is a systematic failure, which was caused by a human. A human made an error. Um, a human did something wrong or a human communicated something wrong or a human didn't have the right training.

And so it really comes down to those people skills. And I know I've watched in in my career, the people that have great communication skills, they're the ones that really succeed. And they're the ones that get promoted in the workplace. So I. Love to see that for your whole community that, you know, we're, we're the ones communicating well, and we're the ones getting promoted and projects.

I  will add to that. I 100 percent see that, um, in my career as well. So, during, uh, my 1st interview. They actually did group interviews and things, and they sat all the candidates together at roundtables during lunch, and they observed what they did at lunch, and then there was kind of a group project for all these unknown, you know, people that didn't know, and I remember I stepped up and tried to lead the group to some sort of consensus.

I didn't really think about that. This was part of the interview as much. Um, so thankfully, it was just kind of natural for me. Uh, but I was just trying to help everybody tell their idea and then kind of gather them, take the notes, um, and then present something back. I wasn't trying to make the decisions, but I did not know that this is, of course, a leadership trait that you can kind of get everybody to say their piece and you can have help people get their ideas across.

And I think, like you said, in a meeting, um, especially if there are voices that maybe are not normally heard in meetings. Uh, you can try to help that person make sure that they get their, uh, input or, or whatever. But I also want to point out something  about what you said earlier, uh, about like, oh, sometimes as women, we're like, oh, of course, you're going to ask me to take the notes, right?

Or serve the coffee or whatever other, like, stereotypical woman thing you think I'm here for, even when I'm actually the engineer or the boss or whatever that is.  And I'm conflicted about this a little bit because I know I hear like, oh, women take on so many more housekeeping tasks at work that are not paid.

We get extra projects that don't necessarily give us the management level experience. They're like, oh, go, you know, organize this fundraiser or something. But I think at the same time, yes, we can look at that and complain and say women shouldn't be asked to do these things. Um, And complain that, Oh, it's really hard to be a woman in a male dominated industry.

And in some cases it is, and there is behavior that is completely unacceptable. And then there's just some things that are kind of, you know, yeah, until it's a 50 50, it's kind of always going to be this way because you can't really expect people to know what they don't know.  I've really been able to utilize this to my advantage as a woman in my career.

Sometimes I think to myself real quickly, like, oh, this is disappointing. But then I think, okay, what can I make out of this? That's that benefits me, right? So if I'm going to do an extra job, I want to make sure that people see it. So think about.  Like Allie said, like, take all those opportunities and do them.

Don't, you know, don't take it all and drown yourself and don't get help and, you know, just feel overwhelmed. Because then, yeah, you will get like, if all you're being measured on is sales and you're doing a thousand other things that people ask you to do and you lack, you know, you're behind on your sales, then clearly that's not going to help your career. 

But if you can think about how does this make me more visible to everyone in the company, for instance, that can be a huge advantage. Um, and if you are 1 of a few women in the department or in the room,  you can use that to your advantage to show your competence to everyone around you and particularly to maybe levels that otherwise wouldn't interact with you. 

Because if you are that person standing up at the beginning and at the end of every meeting. Relaying the notes that everybody's going to remember you in that meeting, regardless of whether you would otherwise have, you know, done. Communicated with them directly in some way, but if you just sit there and take the notes and say nothing, and then, you know, walk away from the meeting and email it to everyone, it may not benefit you.

So, just try to think through there are benefits.  To every sort of extra thing that you can possibly take on, you just have to be mindful of capturing those benefits along with what the extra work that you're doing. Yep. Totally agree. It is. It is a balancing act, but I think we as women in the industry, we have all kinds of tools and advantages that, you know, we can use to our advantage if we want to, other than like, let's say, I'm not a fan of, you know, trying to show up in like suggestive clothing or things like that.

I just mean, purely from a professional standpoint, you can turn some of these housekeeping opportunities into things that can help you stand up, you know,  stand apart from the crowd, particularly if you're in a really, really big company, um, where you might need some sponsorship, people to kind of help you along the way.

If people see that you're an eager, you know, fast learner that will actually do some of these kind of supportive tasks, they will also be happy to help you anytime you come ask them for help. So, I've never been afraid of pouring the coffee. I just might ask for a favor after I've poured the 10th cup of coffee for somebody, you know what I mean? 

See, my answer usually, when someone asked me to get the coffee is I'll go. Oh, no, thank you. I don't drink coffee. But if you have some tea, I'd love that.  That's a good one. 

So, I do want to circle back a little bit more to safety. Okay. I an alley. Maybe maybe you are willing to talk about this or not, but I see a lot of, uh, low cost systems being implemented without safety. And then the ask comes later on. Oh, no, we actually need all the safety on it. Can we get budget to upgrade this machine to be safe?

And now it's in production. It's running. Maybe not very well. Maybe not even at the, you know, even close to the quoted capacity of the machine, but it's running. It's in production.  There is no budget to add safety to this machine. What do we do about those sorts of scenarios? Because I see that way too often in the industry.

I mean, unfortunately, I think that stuff is sorting itself out because if people die or there are accidents, then that whole company is going down. So depending on who's actually like bringing in these systems, but yes, there are definitely systems coming in from outside of the U. S. that are not to American standards whatsoever.

And, uh, they're going to continue to come in. Because of how inexpensive they are, but they do need to be, like, outfitted with, like, incredible, like, uh, if someone needs to look at that, someone needs to do a gigantic risk assessment on every single one of these machines coming in and actually make the E stop not, I saw a machine, I won't say where, but I saw it's HMI was, uh, no, sorry, the E stop turned the HMI off.

That was the stop function.  Oh, and there was a robot involved and it was big.  Um, so, uh, yeah, that kind of like stuff is going on. Um, and obviously you got to catch that. And so you cannot assume that stuff coming from outside the US, especially if, you know, you're getting amazing deal on it. That it's going to come with American safety standards inside of it.

So that's the first thing that like you should definitely and even being involved in a project like that If you have a customer or that's just like got a great deal Um, someone should warn people about like hey  How's the uh safety integrity level on that thing? um, they're like the what um, and so the  and then start conversations about Uh, functional safety and machine safety and,  you know, risk assessments.

It's the same thing in cyber security assessments, assessments, risk assessments, risk assessments on everything. Um, but, um, how do we save those people? Um, yeah, how do we do it? Yeah. My suggestion is so typically in most companies, there's a, you know, a director of EH& S environmental health and safety. So within your company, if you feel that your safety culture is not Where it could be  1st, going and talking to that person and understanding what their goals and their, their metrics are.

So, let's talk about the laws real quick. So, in the United States. Um, we have the act of 1970, and that says that every employer has the responsibility. To provide a safe working environment for the employees.  So it doesn't matter what machine comes in. It is the onus of that owner to make sure that piece of machinery is safe. 

And so what a lot of people don't realize is that does mean that you should be doing an assessment like an operations and use assessment when a piece of equipment is coming in to determine what levels of safety are on that machine, what levels might not be on that machine and how you should interface with that machine. 

And so my, my first suggestion to people would be, go sit down with your director of environmental health and safety and understand from their viewpoint, what is the safety culture at the company and who looks at machinery that comes in and whether or not they've done an assessment. Now, a lot of times in budgeting, just like you, you mentioned Nikki, that in the budgeting, they didn't put the money up front  and having people understand that.

If you spend the money on the risk assessment up front. It's a lot cheaper. One of my customers likes to say, um, it's a lot easier to change things in pen and paper than in concrete and rebar. Yeah. And so if you can get your environmental and health safety person to understand from a controls system perspective in functional safety management, um, and the standard you want to get to know is ISO 12 100.

So I S. O. 1 2 0 0. Most companies have a subscription to a standards organization. You can go read ISO 12 100. It's actually a very well written standard. It's very easy to understand, and it goes through the risk assessment process and the risk reduction process. The risk reduction process has 3 steps.  So the 1st step is.

design it out. Let's just get rid of the hazard. If I've got a pinching hazard on a machine, then I want to change it to where that pinching hazard is no longer there. Um, or I want to put a guard completely around it that the human now can't get their arm in there. Well, this guard in place.  The second thing is called safeguards.

And so safeguards mean I'm going to do something in the control system automatically. That's going to detect before this hazard happens. So again, let's go with that pinching hazard or like in a stamping press, you know, getting a person's hand stuck in the stamping press. Well, now I might put two hand control outside the stamping press.

And so I have to know that the person's 2 hands are outside the machine. And then I'll probably also add a light curtain to make sure that nothing's breaking the barrier before the stamping press comes down. But all of that has to be automatic. That is the 2nd step of risk reduction.  The 3rd step of risk reduction is training signage and an E stop button and  E stop buttons required.

But that is not an automatic safeguard.  And so, if you yourself get trained on and understand. The risk assessment process and risk reduction, you'll be able to talk intelligently with your management about, oh, hey, I heard this new machine is coming in. Are we going to go do a risk assessment on that? Are we going to look at what the design has?

Because over in Europe, the rules are a little different in Europe. So in Europe, they say, if you're a designer of a piece of machinery, they have a law, which is called the machinery directive of 2006. So the machinery directive says, if you're building a piece of machinery, you have to design that piece of machinery to a safe state.

Or if there's any hazard, you have to inform the owner operator of the hazard. So a little bit more of the liability falls on the European machine diner designers. And that's why we've seen like, lots of technologies and companies kind of starting in Europe 1st with this with the safety 1st culture. And then it kind of came to us. 

Asia is still, uh, Kind of catching up with both of those. Their laws are a little different, but you could start asking the questions within your organization to say, Hey, what are we doing for this risk assessment to ensure when we bring this piece of machinery and we know what the residual hazards are and how we're going to mitigate those.

And so,  you know, the company that I always look at that has just a wonderful safety culture is Disney and Disney safety culture is safety is with everyone. And it is my responsibility, no matter my role to speak up  and you have to speak up if you think about the. NASA Challenger explosion that happened.

You know, some people didn't speak up and then some things happen that should not have happened. And so you want to work in a company that when you speak up, you're heard. Yeah. And speak loudly. And then if you feel you're in an unsafe environment and as you're speaking up and they're, they're not saying something, then you can make a choice of where you want to work.

But as controls engineers and automation people, yeah, we, we should all be talking more about that because our machines are becoming more complex. They're becoming higher speed and, and they do have hazards.  Yeah, and we'd like to keep the headlines, the dumb, not, you know, understanding our industry headlines like robot attacks worker from ever appearing as convoluted as those things are where they're not actually, of course, the robot never attacks the person like we all know that  the general public.

Doesn't but the more that we can make sure that we have robust safety cultures, not just standards or machines. Right? But I think overall safety culture that it would be a lot easier for us to tell the narrative that these things aren't dangerous. You know, those accidents are. Result of some error, right?

Somebody didn't do a lockout tag out or something wasn't, you know, up to standard, but we as an industry care about safety and these companies, you know, we have these safety being talked about everywhere. Um, yeah, I would say just like if you're in a poor work environment in terms of, you know, culture, safety is one of those things to think about.

And if your organization does not care about that, you probably want to start looking for a new job. While you still have the old one, I always try to give that, you know, sometimes people wait until they're so fed up or desperate that they just quit without, you know, another plan. There are plenty of good jobs out there, but you usually don't find one when you're desperate.

So that's another great tip about networking is always be on the lookout for people that you would like to work with organizations that you can get to know before you work there.  Because it's really hard in one interview or two to get a feel for if an organization is a fit. But if you can talk to a few people that have worked there for years, you know, you, you have a much better chance at a good fit from the get go.

On both sides and LinkedIn and just networking in general is a great way to get a feel for whether a company has those very important factors like a safety oriented culture or where you can actually speak out and somebody care about what you have to say or be heard rather than them just wanting to silence you, which there are those companies out there.

And I would rather, I would, I would like to see the job market kill those companies, if anything, like they can't get talent if they're not going to step up and be a good place to work. Uh, and there's plenty of good places to work and. You know, they should reap the benefits, right. Of caring about those things.

Uh, we do talk about safety culture a bit on the show. Um, there are especially, uh, I remember one episode with Christy from indigenous tech consulting, where we talked quite a bit about safety culture in season one, she used to work in mining.  Another big area where safety is, you know, just super important.

Uh, I also just want to throw up, we have a love conversation happening in the comments.  I know we were talking about bringing in machines from overseas that were not safe. Uh, our friend Johnny Wilson over at Rivian says you can't trust a machine coming from America complies with standards either.  So, you know, just like.

Do your assessment on everything from anywhere. You can never assume.  Yeah, that would be another thing. You know, as controls engineers, another area that I'll say that I see a great need in industry is understanding electrical safety.  So what does it mean to properly Ground and have the right trip circuit rating in a control panel and to be able to design that control panel properly and then ground that control panel properly.

Like, a lot of controls engineers know how to program a PLC, but if you asked them to try to. Properly design an electrical circuit so that there's no noise or impedance that's going to impact your VFDs. They don't know how to do that. And so I know at Rockwell, we've published a lot of very long, lengthy documents on proper electrical grounding and wiring for VFDs and for motors.

But understanding the national electric code, what's required in the code, what it says in the code, that's another way to really set yourself apart. Even the electrical contractors we hire, they sometimes don't. And when I say we, I'm talking about our customers in general. I hear this many times from my customers is that they'll bring a contractor in, but it was a contractor that maybe did.

Residential and commercial, and maybe not always industrial, and then they don't know the NEC code. And some of the biggest challenges I see in control systems today is improper grounding, which causes residual noise. Our control systems nowadays, we talked about how they're a bit more complicated. I'd also like to say they're a little more sensitive.

Yeah, so when you, when you have a grounding problem in A VFD today, it's, it's way more impactful than when you just had a regular motor starter and a motor, you know, 30 years ago. So being able to identify when you've got grounding issues, it'll help you in your troubleshooting and in your maintenance and, and again, it's just a skillset that not a lot of people understand. 

You guys have some resources, like you said, a document. I'm sure there's some more vital stuff as well that the National Electric Code. Yeah. Every controls engineer.  Should have the NEC. And if you don't have one, you can go get it quickly. Um, and read through that. It's used in everything we do. And when we, you know, put these systems in programming's not gonna cut it like then you're a programmer, you're not a controls engineer. 

Yeah. That is the different skillset. Right? Like the holistic and, and I think that's something like panel design is not necessarily the same skillset as as programming A PLC. Uh, so we will definitely link to some of those resources. Yes. From Rockwell, because I think that that's really a really important and be, you know, it's nice to have some supporting documentation to the code.

Right. To help people understand how to implement the code correctly. Building designing and building panels is, is a big part of our jobs. Uh, I know Allie does that quite a bit. A lot of our friends in our network, um, do that as well. Hey, Scott, thanks for sharing. He's wearing arc flash clothing at the moment.

He said, uh, proper PPE is also really important to us.  Uh, and something that we have coming this year, I don't have an exact rollout date, but automation ladies will have a shop with women's PPE, which is At some point soon because we just want to curate, you know, some stuff that we like and have seen, uh, because generally most distributors of women's PPE, it's a small percentage of what they sell.

So it's hard to specialize. Scott also wants to talk about grounding. We need to fix this all over the place.  Oh my God. Yeah. Totally. Totally agree. Yeah. And I'll get you some links to some documents that I would, I would share. Um, and it can, and I know it can be tedious. I, myself, when I've sat down and read them, it's like, okay, wait a minute.

How does this flow and how does this connect and  take the time to learn? You literally could save your life or someone else's. Yeah, so with that, it looks like we're almost at the hour mark. Um, this has been an amazing conversation. I would continue it for a while if I could, but with, uh, with that, with our timing in mind, I want to ask you, uh, our last standard question, Linda, can you tell people, uh, Where they can find you can I know you already gave the tip about connecting with you.

So that was very clear. Connect with Linda with the message that you enjoyed the episode today that you saw her here on AutomationLadies. But any other ways that people can reach out to you, follow you, be part of your network? And then is there anything? Uh, that you've got going on this year or, you know, in the near future that we should be looking forward to  definitely on LinkedIn.

Yeah. Follow me on LinkedIn. I can't think of. Um, this was actually my exciting thing to share with people being on this podcast today.  I will throw out another challenge, though, um. Everyone go on my LinkedIn page, and there was this wonderful YouTube video that Rockwell Automation filmed a few years ago.

And again, I'm very passionate about creating our next generation of people that work in industrial automation, male or female, diverse, all backgrounds, right? Sometimes the way we talk about what we do doesn't excite people. And so Rockwell recorded this quick little video with me talking about figure out a way to say what you do that sounds really exciting to inspire the next generation.

And so I like to tell people that I, you know, safely put smiles on people's faces when they ride roller coasters, because I do safety systems on roller coasters. You know, that's exciting. People want to get that. Or if you want to say,  I enable people to have healthy lives. I work in a life sciences, you know, drug manufacturing facility or, um, I enable people to eat food every day.

You know, I work in a food manufacturing plant or like sometimes I'll say I, I enable people, um, to have great vacations with their luggage. So figure out what that is for you and share it with somebody. That's what I encourage. I totally agree with that. Yeah. Because we say. When we say what we really do people's eyes glaze over a lot of the time because they have no idea right what we're talking about.

I tell kids I did a cookie oven that does animal crackers and they're just like I'm a hero. I'm a cookie hero.  Well you know the girl that we met at ICC who makes Sweet Baby Ray's barbecue sauce. It's like you just, that got me. Yeah your mouth starts watering and you don't forget.  Well thank you everybody for joining us.

Uh, please take Linda up on some of her challenges. I also want to say I did find your partner channel on LinkedIn. I mean, on YouTube, as I was looking at some of the videos and I went ahead and did a little challenge for myself, but I, I, I skimmed it and looked for everybody that I know in person. And I shared two of those videos on AutomationLady's page this week.

And I think I might have, I don't, you know, normally pre schedule videos, but, or posts, but I did one for next week. I, I, here's my challenge. If you run into anybody on YouTube that you know in person on LinkedIn, post their YouTube video and tag them. Um, because I think that's kind of fun. Some people are active on LinkedIn and not on YouTube or vice versa.

Uh, and there's the more content that's out there about our industry and how cool it is and the partners that we have and the cool things we work on, the more that gets around to everybody, I think. The more we win in terms of just getting more people into our industry. So thank you so much, Linda.  Thank you.

Everybody that joins me, uh, we look forward to, we'll be live again next week and the week after that, I think we're booked up all the way till May. Um, with lives, we're doing tons of recordings. If you know somebody that wants to be on the show or you want to be on the show, don't hesitate to reach out to us.

And then we'll be seeing you at some in person events as well, including the assembly show South. In Nashville, first week of May automate second week of May in Chicago. Uh, and then of course, way later this year, we have to wait a little while to look forward to this, but Rockwell automation fair this year is in the Southern California area.

Um, so we'll all be having a party in SoCal later. Thank you everybody. Have a great rest of your day. Bye bye.