Insights into Machine Vision with Yamini Vattipalli

In this episode, Nikki  interviews Yamini Vattipalli, Director of Operations at Easy Automation Systems. 

Yamini shares her journey from being an image processing engineer to her current role. They discuss the challenges and importance of vision applications, the transition to system integration, and the role of AI in machine vision. 

Transcript

Welcome to another episode of Automation Ladies. This time I am pre recording an episode with a long time connection, or I guess that's relative. We've known each other at least a year now.  We met at sorry. Automate.  Yamini sent us a message on LinkedIn and asked us to swing by the Easy Automation Systems booth if we could.

And she was lucky enough, or we were lucky enough, that it was actually one of the booths that we made it to that we didn't have anything scheduled.  Although it was a short visit, Ali and I had a great time,  looking at what they had. They had vision systems and robotics and all kinds of stuff. And it's been this long in the making to get Yamani on the show.

So thank you so much for joining me. Oh, thank you so much for having me. And,  I was just going to say it's been in the works and I'm really glad that we could get it to happen finally. Well, Hey, it's nice. Part of this is, you know, what we're doing is just trying to establish connections in community.

And so,  staying in touch with people over long periods of time, I think is way cooler than just having some random person  on the show one time and then, you know. That's it. So as we're building up our industry connections and things like that, um, I love being able to catch up with people, you know, year over year, that sort of thing.

So last year when we spoke, I think that you were a machine vision engineer, if I'm remembering that correctly. And now you are director of operations at easy automation systems. It's pretty, pretty cool. You've been, you know, learning a lot, moving up. I guess I should back up and just ask our first question rather than starting to talk too much, which is, can you tell us a bit about your background story and how it is that you got to be director of operations at easy automation systems?

Sure.  So I do come from a background of, engineering, obviously. So,  growing up, I didn't really have engineers in the household, but,  I was always a STEM inclined student and, you know, naturally we just gravitate towards getting an engineering degree.  Got my bachelor's in  electronics and communications engineering and, um, came to the U.

S. I want to say, like, in 2014. so it's coming up on 10 years now. Okay, and I went to school actually in Missouri,  to get my graduate degree and I got a master's in electrical engineering. However, towards the end of that, I really became more and more interested in, like, machine vision, image processing,  I was, you know, kind of,  the buzz, 10 years ago and, you know, it was like, in an early phase.

So, I was getting very much interested in that and, did a couple of projects in that. And decided to start looking for roles in that, industry, at least in the machine vision portion of it.  And that's how I found, easy automation systems. So I started working  with easy automation systems in 2016.

so my role was because it was heavily based on machine vision. My first couple of years at the company I spent, as a image processing engineer. So all I would do,  all day was. Pretty much design algorithms to find things on an image.  Basically I'd have like customers be like, Hey, this is an image of this part.

And then this one looks good. This one doesn't. Then I want you to like, go ahead and give me an algorithm that tells me that this one's not a good image. And I'm like, Hey, I can do that. And that's pretty much what I did for the first couple of years. And back then the company was doing machine vision, but it was like, Software base, and it was very heavy on machine vision software and I think it was an interesting time because I want to say, end of 2018, 2019.

 I'm really grateful to be part of the company at that time because it was  transitioning to becoming a system integrator company. Okay, at that time, we commissioned this project that was our 1st system integration project. So it had the machine vision component to it, but it also had, like, other parts to it.

 And when that project came in, that kind of became, like, our trend,  and I. Realize that I enjoyed working with,  people, you know, figuring out logistics to make,  these projects happen. And I gradually transition towards becoming project manager. And, I've been at this role for, I want to say um, coming up on maybe 2 years now.

So, yeah, you're right. When I met you at automate, I was just starting. , just, you know, maybe,  a few months into the role of doing director of operations, but because I have an engineering degree, sometimes it's hard to not get technically involved. So, yeah, that's why I was like, at the booth, trying to get things running at least on the vision side of things.

And, you know, we had our electronics engineer at the time also helping us set up everything else. Yeah. So  that's pretty much the journey and how I ended up here. And so I'm fairly still like young on the industry, and I'm just starting to go to, automation based events and conferences and trying to learn and,  you know, talk to people like you and,  just other, you know, industry people and seeing how we can best work together. 

Yeah. Yeah. Machine vision. Fascinating world. If you're listening to us for the first time, uh, maybe,  you heard, you know, are listening to this because you're connected with,  Yamani and not me. I started out as a machine vision sales engineer for Keyence.  And,  so set of standard algorithms on the tool, like come included, right.

And you would program with different filters and things like that. And then,  Slowly came out the capability to,  make your own. And then, I mean, it was just  a very rapidly evolving space back then. That was probably before you even got into it. AI wasn't really in the picture.  But there were a lot of applications that we couldn't solve at the time.

And I think that's part of where AI has really come in and helped is in those conditions or those applications where the traditional tools were not, you know, stacking up and doing the job. Because for vision, I mean, there's still places where there's still applications today that we still haven't like fully figured out how to tackle or it's just too variable.

So there is a need for the technology to continuously evolve. But one of the things that I always thought was interesting when I ran across later on,  companies that were tackling only the image part. And when I got into AI, we would talk to people, uh, the term computer vision is used a lot, which is generally,  different from machine vision in that you're just looking at the image on a computer, whereas machine vision, you're kind of, capturing the image, you're processing the image of doing something you're handling a lot, right?

 There are two very different things. And I always kind of, you know, this may or may not have been right of me at the time, but I would chuckle a little bit when people were. You know, just processing these images on like, you don't even know the hardest part is getting the image, not processing the image   and I guess, can you tell me a little bit about that transition between being the one you like, you said, your customers were sending you the images and I'm assuming then that they had some sort of system already installed that was capturing the images, but maybe these particular defects were not being Correctly sorted by the on board software on the camera, or were they just straight up taking images and did not have any processing capability yet?

Like what? What did that workflow look like when you were not the one installing and, you know, integrating the cameras? As well, right?  So, typically, yeah, the workflow would be,  you know, we don't deal with smart cameras. So these are, again, you know, a system that was built, but, you know, there's no ownership of the entire system.

 The systems laid out, like, somebody provided the vision part of it, and then we got to capture the image and a software. Company is going to get the image and this algorithm company is going to inspect the image. So there's like too many moving parts basically. And that's how I ended up at the time.

 I was very much agnostic of how I'm even getting the image because at the time to me, it was almost like computer vision because I'm doing it on my computer and offline and not really worrying about, you know, what it takes for the image to get there.  But typically,  the kind of customers and the kind of  market that we work with has.

Been mostly, uh, manufacturers,  especially the people that we're dealing with on the,  other end,  from  the customer site are usually process engineers or quality engineers.  And, you know, they're often,  going back and forth on, like, how the product needs to look, or you have this other group of people who want to increase,  you know, have the least amount of downtime.

 And that,  basically defines, between those 2, there's like, a range of other requirements that we also need to define and build that system that, you know, makes everybody happy. So  yeah,   back when I was the image processing engineer, it would do me by the time I get the image.

Like, I wouldn't really know too much about what it took for the process to get that image into the inspection piece, which was kind of what I was focused on back then. Uh, huh. But I think by having this,  you know, the 1st major project , that I was mentioning that led me to transition my role from,  the image processing engineer or somebody who has the machine vision focus into,  like a project manager or somebody who's, you know, zooming out and looking at the system as a whole. I think,  it was,  a lot of learning, obviously, because.  You know, as a system integrator, there's just too many moving parts and inspection or the vision part of it is a big, you know, it's important.

And that's where we add our value. So, any project or anything that we do, that's how we describe ourselves to everyone is that we're system integrators, but where we add value is vision, because that's kind of been our core focus. And that's  been our core strength. So we try to. Take on applications that especially require a vision piece to it. 

Yeah. And we also do some robotics. Yeah. Okay, and I'm sure it's helped your business grow, being able to take ownership of the whole thing, rather than saying, oh, we just do the software part, right? And then relying on somebody else to make it work  in the whole big picture. Yeah, and also, you know, it's easier for us to have that control over the entire system, rather than and also easier for the customers.

You don't have to like, go to multiple people to figure out where the issue is, you know, all the troubleshooting, the maintenance and, just installation and everything is just much more easier when you have it all in the same place. You know, Yeah. Do you have any stories that you can share about either,  systems that you came in that you needed to fix or change because they were not working or any like  weird anomalies or learnings you've had on projects that you wouldn't have expected?

 I was like asking people about their worst vision applications, because they can be fun to talk about. Not usually when you're working on them, but maybe a little bit after the fact. Uh, yeah. So a lot of,  the applications that we have, um, obviously vision as part of it. I don't think there was one particular application where I would have Had,  not like a worst vision example, but typically, if you're in the vision space, one of the biggest challenges is you're either working with,  customers who know exactly what they want inspected.

So they know what a defective part. Looks like, for example, but you also have, like, these newer customers who are trying to, you know, still warm up to,  having things automated. And they don't have anything defined in terms of what they qualify as good or bad. It's very subjective because, you know, they're used to having a human in the loop or having a human visually inspect parts.

So it can get interesting trying to get that information and, you know, information from them and understand what they. Are actually seeing and how to, because we have to teach an algorithm to do the kind of the same thing and kind of have a similar judgment. Right? So,  it's just been very interesting trying to,  communicate and figure out what exactly is the requirements when it comes to the.

 Inspection part of it, so getting that information out, like, why do you think this part looks good? And why do you think this part looks bad?  And it's a very subjective kind of discussion. So I do think those are very interesting, especially,  with, like, newer companies who are just. Starting to install systems that are able to automate a lot of these inspections, but they're just used to like, you know, a human looking at it and make those making those judgments in the past. 

Yeah, yeah, I know, at least for me, so, because we had only the rules based, you had to define every criteria very carefully because you can't teach the system what you don't know to teach it. Right?  I thought at least from the marketing materials of different vision companies using AI over the last decade or so, it seemed to me like the promise of AI in machine vision was you can just feed it a bunch of pictures of bad parts and you don't have to tell it exactly what's wrong with them.

You just give good examples, bad examples, and the AI figures out what's good or what's bad. Is that real? Do you know? Yeah, it depends. So,  we do have to make decisions like that when it comes to what kind of data we have. So we do have applications where we're able to, you know,  run, maybe a fake,  deliberately introduced, like, defects into a parts and actually get real images off of it.

But in a lot of  manufacturing space, that's not feasible, because why would I spend. Machine time, making deliberately making bad products. I mean, that's not, you know, I'm going to help me with anything. So, uh, when it comes to things like that, so we either,  use the approach that you're saying,  if it works, depending on what it really depends on the application.

So we just, you know,  show  the algorithm, whatever that might be just examples of bad images and see where it comes out and see what kind of correlation it has when it comes to identifying good.  Good parts,  but there's also, I mean, a lot of things I've seen recently, and there have been some applications where you can actually augment it by adding virtual defects.

So it looks almost.  Real and you can add that to, like, your training data, and  use that,  and it serves the same purpose of adding, like, more data points to what you want to teach the algorithm. So, yeah, there's a couple different ways of doing it. And yeah,  the specific one that you talked about that has been, sometimes you just don't have enough data points and it's a continuous improvement, right?

Like, there's no algorithm that's just going to work all the time. There is a loop and there is, um, we need to provide the tools for,   Constantly teach the algorithm also, so you have to have that built in.  So, it's not necessarily, like I said, and forget it type of situation most  systems. Yeah, I highly recommend that you, um, you know,  because things change, like, especially in the manufacturing field conditions drift, like,  things vibrate, lights can drift, things get damaged.

Dirty Oh, my God, some of these environments are really filthy. So, you know, things can get dirty images can look way different than from, you know,  we 1st install that things get dirty. You have to clean it. You need to have procedures to make sure that, you know, you're servicing the equipments on time and, you know, lighting conditions could change.

So you want to be.  I mean, you do want to have a robust algorithm to begin with, but we also try to provide tools where we're able to, you know, also create like a pipeline almost where if you have outliers, or if you have changing conditions, your algorithm should also be able to.  Have some sort of like a continuous improvement  process where you can feed in more data and improve the algorithm time because you're never going to be stuck with, like, the 1st revision of the algorithm.

You're just going to find something different along the way. Okay, well, I guess  that is one of the progressions then of using machine learning envision is that it can be probably a little bit more robust and adaptable versus, something where it's programmed on more discrete parameters, right?

Not something that you're looking for a delta, but you're looking for a set value. Yeah,  and I think they have become more flexible over time. My, my biggest. Story, I guess, around machine vision,  has always been this application where somebody, sold a vision system to an integrator that then shipped it to one of my customers, that was an injection molding facility, and they installed it right underneath the skylight and it's a 24 hour operation.

And the vision system was, it was front lit with just a red ring light. And so it could not handle the changes in the lighting, the ambient lighting in the facility.  So somebody had programmed it thinking, Oh, you know, under at least the fluorescent light or something.  And then it just, you know, as soon as the weather would change or it became dark, it would stop working.

And then that same system, I worked for weeks and weeks and weeks to get it to work under all these different conditions, right? Because it wasn't specced properly.  And then finally, I got it to work and then a few weeks later, I get a call from the same customer and I just immediately got a huge, you know, pit in my stomach and was like, Oh, no, not again.

What's wrong? And they're like, Yeah, that's not working. The image is like pitch black. And it turned out one of the set screws had vibrated out of the lens and the lens, the aperture had closed. So that was like, you know, an easy maintenance fix. Yeah. But they're just like you said, there's so many different factors that go into it.

And it is one of those things you kind of have to, you know, baby, not babysit, but you just, uh, you have to think of vision systems as something that you need to monitor closely. Right. And having more interaction with it on a more regular basis.  Probably helps avoid some of these issues coming up. Do you guys, because now you being a more of a full service, like systems integrator, do you typically have a relationship where you handle that maintenance for customers?

Or does it depend on what they're looking for? Whether they end up taking over the responsibility themselves after it gets installed  or. Working with you to make sure that it continues to work. So typically, when we deliver a system, like a full system, depending on, because, like I said, vision is a bit big part of what we have as part of the system.

We, we. And the install with either, or I wouldn't say, and sometimes we pause because you need to get the system in there to begin an image collection process because  you need to have a system and then, you know, feed it parts to have to get the image. So you can actually have it. Doing  what it's supposed to do,  so we do that, but at the end of, you know, when everybody's happy, they run their test.

They've understood the capability of the system. We do provide training. And as many sessions as the customer would need to be comfortable enough, but using the system,  obviously, you know, we have our warranty,  and whatnot. So we always try to,  help our customers out. Anytime we have issues with, you know, , any of the systems that we've installed if they have questions, sometimes,  they have transitions within their groups and they just need more information.

So we're always happy to help. But typically, we end up with the training and when they feel like they have the expertise to maintain it, you know, it just goes into that goes into like their area for them to take care of it. But, yeah, anytime there's an upgrade or anything that's needed, we. Then get back in the picture and we kind of like help them through that.

Uh, but typically we end, most of our,  system services. We either have like a service agreement. If not, we end up with the training,  whatever resource they would need. Um, yeah, so it's up to them  if they want the service agreement, they can continue to work with you if they don't have the in house talent to get trained, for instance, but if they want to take that on themselves, they can.

 I like that approach, you know, versus, Kind of making it a black box and then making customers call you every time that there's an issue or something you want people to be, if at all possible, be self sufficient with what, you know, you've installed. Yeah. And it's funny, you should say about the lighting conditions because we were recently, I want to say in October. 

Florida Expo, um, it happened in,  Tampa and,  when we saw where we were going to, and we had a booth there and we saw where we were going to be setting up on the map, everything was fine. And once we got there, this is Tampa and it's like October, but it was still sunny.  It was actually at, um, I don't remember the name of the stadium, but it was like, on the outside of the stadium and our booth was like.

Position towards the outside. So it's like an outdoor location and it's like sun like shining on it. I'm like, what is going on? But it was like a simple application that we were doing. So it was like a quick fix, you know, something on the, exposure that we needed to adjust. I'm like, why is it not seeing this,  piece of candy?

Because we were doing a demo with like, dispensing candies using a fanning robot arm.  Um, and yeah, it was just, it was just great. You know, we tested it here. I mean, not that again. It's not like a complicated system. However, the demos and the runs that we did in here in, you know, in our, in our shop was very much different from the conditions that we encountered there.

But luckily, it was a simple enough application, so it didn't really take a lot of troubleshooting or whatnot. But, yeah, that's 1 thing. We definitely, you know. Need to consider when it comes to  designing systems, because you want it to be robust enough to expect that lighting conditions and the drifting conditions that you can possibly think of  and you want it to be resilient to at least a certain amount of those changes in environment.

Yeah. Are you still as interested in vision now as you were when you started?  Uh, yeah, because I think,  it is important to be interested because it's ever changing. The cameras that we used, you know, a few years ago, they're very different from the cameras that we're, you know, looking into. And in fact, we have like very new cameras that I don't know personally how to use.

But we have like the team here, that's playing with, newer cameras and figuring out what kind of capabilities they have.  I mean, I don't think I had any real big knowledge about 3D cameras. So that's a totally different space and it's becoming more and more needed. And what we're doing, especially with robotics.

So, , I'm still interested and I think that. You know, it gives you that perspective, especially when you're working with projects. And like I said, it's like 1 of our core strengths in the company. So,  it just works out. It worked out and, you know, I'm still learning because there's  a lot of things that keep changing, especially with technology,  and the capabilities, you want, you said you went to school in Missouri was that, uh, The S and T, was it Rolla or is it a different school?

Okay. Yeah, that one. I'm always running into people who at least know something about the school or know something about the area.  I actually met somebody at A3,  and she might have been on with you guys. She's from, um, Black Plane Automation. Lauren. Oh, Kathy. Yeah. Or Lauren. Lauren. Yes. Yes. I believe.

Yeah, they're from the St. Louis or they're close to the St. Louis area and they were, I was really excited to talk to them at the forum. And the fact that I went through all that, like, really, you know, it sparked the whole conversation. So, yeah, that's a school that I went to. Okay, I may be misremembering, but I think,  Caitlin Young.

 Also went there. And the reason that I recognize it and know of it is actually outside of our industry. But for a while I worked in electromagnetic simulation, which is taking CAD models and then simulating Maxwell's equations to figure out like, Wave behavior, wave propagation,  and that can be in the visible spectrum of light or in the, you know, high frequency, microwave frequencies or low frequencies, you know, motors, things like that.

And 1 of the big application areas for that type of simulation is in electromagnetic compatibility. So, let's say you plug something into the wall. You want to make sure you don't get shocked. That's electrostatic discharge. And E. M. C. and E. S. D. there's a whole bunch of different regulations and, standards that electronic products have to meet.

In order to be safe, right? When people use them. And so in the product design, you have to design a product and then you have to test it and make sure that it meets these standards.  And the way to do that is to, you know, you put your product into a test chamber and you subject it to all these different pulses or different things.

And you see  how does it handle the discharge? Is it compatible? Is it going to shock? Is it going to do these, you know, damage components that it's connected to things like that. And a lot of. It's very advantageous to be able to simulate that before you, you know, put your system up to that test chamber to be certified and S& T Rolla has like the top program in the country for the EMC lab.

Exactly. So, like, all the top PhDs and people in the research in that space, we're from that university. So  ever since then, I've just always thought of them as like, really highly regarded. Yeah, they do have really good programs, especially their EMC lab is like, highly renowned. So, you know, a lot of people who end up there, , I know, there's  a lot of people who are really happy to be working in that lab.

Yeah,  it's nice to know that, you know, it's also outside of not just the university, but  you know, people in the industry are actually,  have been able to work  with that lab over there. Yeah, absolutely. And then I just recently, like I said, heard it of it in the context of people coming into controls.

So did you choose that university for the electrical engineering program? Or what was your kind of process there in terms of what program to get into? And did you know about machine vision and industrial automation when you went into engineering? Or how did you find out about our industry specifically?

 So, in all honesty, when I was applying for that university, I didn't know too much about the industry as such and where machine vision actually plugs in. I just saw it as its own standalone,  component,  so when I, did end up going to school for a master's in electrical engineering, because my background was electronics and communication.

I also wanted to focus on like, communication. So I used to work on like,  To take courses like network networks, or,  just like understanding how,  electrical networks work and,  things like that. However, machine vision and image processing has always been on my radar. And interestingly, during my bachelors, also, my senior design project was based on image processing.

, so I kind of like. I did want to take new courses and more advanced courses to see what else is out there. And I'm not sure what exactly happened, but because I took those courses in the 2nd, year of my master's, and I did graduate at the end of the 2nd year, I think it just stuck with me. And I just decided to go looking for a job where I can apply that and immediately become an image processing engineer.

So I do have an electrical background, but I. Don't really get my hands as dirty  with electrical bills or designs as much as I, you know, I would be expected to with a degree like that. But,  yeah, I just, I guess I just start getting inclined towards, like, machine vision image processing and,  that's how and then by working at easy automation systems, I truly,  started to understand how machine vision applies to a system and, you know, what, you know, More it's literally like the brain, right?

Um, yeah, because yeah, because you're building the system and the end result as you want to be able to have all these things work together to be able to see what the system sees. And then send that to the software, which is doing a lot of things and it's like the brain. Yeah, so it's just, I didn't know the applications in the extent and the capabilities of machine vision at the time.

 I was doing my masters, but more so became like an exposure after. I'm starting my position here.  Very cool. How long is it now that you've been with easy automation systems? So I'm coming up on my eighth year. Uh, it'll be eight years in, , October.  So yeah, I started,  2016 actually on Halloween. So  that's a nice anniversary.

Easy to remember. Easy to remember. Yeah. Like I, I don't think I ever remembered down to the day, like when I started at any company, um, But if it had been Halloween, it'd be easy. Yeah. I just remember that.  So yeah, I'm coming up on eight years and, uh, yeah, it's been, that's been really great. Well, sounds like you've had a lot of opportunities to kind of train and things that you're interested in.

And then obviously some upward mobility moving into a director role. Do you have any tips or,  yeah, suggestions or things that you think easy automation is doing right to have attracted you in the first place and then retained you for eight years, which in this, you know, it's in this day and age , is a decent tenure.

Like that's not, To be taken for granted now to be able to keep a quality person for eight years? Yeah, so actually our team, um, is quite small. So we're currently at 14. And, um, interestingly, actually half our workforce at easy. So we're 14 and I wanna say 13 of us are engineers.

Um, all of us have engineering degrees and,  half the workforce,  of those engineers are actually, , women. Uh, in the company and, you know, I just worked out that way and it's been like, pretty normal for us. And I, like, sometimes talk to others. I'm like, oh, like, I, you know, I don't see that in some places, but it's very normal.

And again, it wasn't intended or planned or anything. It just worked out that way. So, it's a fairly small company. It's always it's just been smaller since when I joined. So, again, there was like, you know, varying of different hats and things like that that did happen in the early days.  However, what really, you know, made me.

Day has just been like, I've seen, like I said, I was really grateful, to be part of the company, especially during that transition period. So I know what it took for it to kind of like rebrand from  machine vision software to a full system, turnkey system,  in a greater,  company.

So it's just honestly, it's just  the kind of investment I've made and the kind of learnings that I've had that. You know, maybe stay and also the team,  the general manager,  of the company, I'm at, I believe he was at automate.  So, you guys might have met him, but , he's also been, uh, on for that for that long of a beer and we both kind of like, started, um, around the same time.

So it's. It's the core team,  and just the kind of investment and the kind of learning and the kind of opportunities that,, we have,  that's really made me stay. , and you know,  being able to go to like conferences and like events and, you know, be able to connect with, people and, you know, able to relate with them and see what kind of experiences they're having.

 It's just all been really amazing. And that's what has made me stay.  That's 1 of the things that I need as well. I've realized over the years is I need a decent amount of autonomy in my job, and I need to be able to be learning something. If I'm not learning something, I might be really good at it, but I'm just going to get bored and, like, lose my,  I don't know.

Drive to want to do that thing. If it becomes monotonous to me, and , I would say machine vision and systems integration are just by default things that you can't really get bored of because they're always different, especially if you're custom. It's like every system is different, right? Um, so, yeah, there's not much to get bored off and,  yeah, you're right, like doing the same thing over and over again could definitely get boring.

 Also, you're always learning if you're not, if you feel like you're getting really good at it, it's always good to have somebody challenge you,  and give you that different perspective. So you're always learning. So, yeah, I really enjoy that. Also, do you find that,  machine vision is moving so fast or even the robotics technologies, whatever that.

You guys are a you're constantly having to do r and d  And I guess I'm making this a 2 part question. Do you ever need to go back and  update or change the technologies in any of your previously installed systems? Or is it pretty much like you set something for the application? And even, you know, as long as it works, it works.

You keep it out there. And the new technology would be reserved for new projects, new applications that you couldn't tackle in the past.  Yeah. So we don't actively go back and retrofit,  some of the systems that's been deployed. Like,  if you'd applied something  five years ago, we do like, you know, I have touch bases with,  our customers and be like, Hey, there's like newer things now.

But,  we often don't go back and retrofit anything because there's also resistance from, like, customers because they don't want to give up on the uptime of the machine to just, you know, for you to update it. They just be as long as they're , making what they're making, because again, like, most of our customers are in the manufacturing space.

So they don't want to give up on that time to go help. And if it works, it works, right? Generally, they're not changing or fixing things unless it's broken or not working. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes like, hey, but this, you know, you can't find this camera anymore. And they're like, yeah, we'll just, they order spares and things like that.

 But,  yeah, so anytime we, um, again, we're also R and D driven. That also makes us kind of unique, I would say. So anytime we have  an application that's been requested office, we just don't pull like, numbers are not out of nowhere, but we just don't, you know, just put the numbers on the paper.

We actually do a feasibility study and do some image formation to make sure that it is feasible to look at the things that they want us to look at and kind of scope it out. So, we do like, an R and D period on most projects and so we usually have a concept design by the time we have quotation. How do you so we've had.

A lot of things figured out and that includes like cameras and things like that. Um, but yeah, when there's newer cameras and we have partners and we're authorized system integrators for a couple vendors. So we're always in the loop and, you know, being in the industry and part of a 3 and things like that keeps you in the loop about a lot of these updates anyway.

So anytime there's a newer things, and we have like fantastic, sales rep from all these,  vendor companies that. Keep us updated and they, you know, they send you like a loaner items and things like that for you to play with and for you to evaluate and see if you have any new applications for it.

So, once we have newer applications, and we feel like we could use on your model of the camera, or like a smarter camera or something like that, or just anything with  more capability that I feel like would be useful for also the application and the customer. Yeah, we do that, but  it's not very common for us to go back and retrofit something necessarily.

There has to be a. Reason of, you know, either it being updated or, you know,  if that's a required update,  we usually, recommend that,  as part of like a new project.  Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.  So you mentioned everybody at your company as an engineer, except for maybe 1 person, but I'm sure there's, you know, like yourself, there must be people that are doing other functions that are not engineering. 

You moving from an pure engineering role to now a more of a management role. Did you take any outside training? Is it just kind of like inside the company people are figuring out where their strengths are and they're moving into roles that are maybe engineering adjacent? Or do you Have a more like formal way of figuring out, okay, you went and now that you do some project management, you went and took project management certificate, or are you guys  more just organically evolving people out of pure engineering to other functions in the company?

Yeah. So particularly for me, I don't have any,  certification.  That, you know, certify me from going from a machine vision background to something else.  But, in the company, it's been like more of an organic growth,  for  all the roles that I'm thinking about. So it's usually somebody who started as an engineer and it's not necessarily that,  you are going to become a  project manager.

Eventually, it's more of,  you know, where that journey takes you,  but there's been, like, you know, we have people who just want to do, you know, want to work inside,  the wild and just, you know, work on development and be like, inside the heart of the application. Right? And they just love doing that.

So, you know, it's really, it really depends on people's interests and their skills. Skill.  So  the one person who's not the engineer is just,  the business coordinator. And, you know,  again, I feel like she knows a lot about how, our systems,  works and how, because she's been, she's also important to be in the loop on, you know, we build a system and we deliver it.

So there's a lot of coordination and things that,  we also need to work with her on. , but our engineers, we have, uh, so we have a combination of software engineers, we have,  machine vision engineers. We have,  mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, so basically anything, any engineering that you would need to, you know, to build a system.

 And we've always, um, our experience in our journey has been to have project managers will have sort of a technical background.  So that gives the opportunity for the project manager to almost interpret the system as a user. So you also understand clearly what the functionalities are has worked out well  so far.

So that's great. I really think it's just been more of an organic, uh, growth, um, inside the company.  Yeah. I was going to say, if you have, do you have any tips for people that are in a purely engineering role right now and want to move up, uh, or, or sideways, whatever that looks like into a, a technical adjacent?

role, anything in particular that you would recommend or say, you know, you can go after this or  did you go for it yourself or were you kind of tapped for the job? I guess is another facet of that question. At the time, um, at the time I really, uh, at the time it was a combination of wearing, uh, different hats because like I said, we were much smaller then.

So it was becoming like we were managing, um, managing our own portion of the work and, you know, doing that. And then obviously, uh, that's not. The best way to do it. So you have to, you know, have some sort of structure, right? Yeah. Um, so, uh, at the time, I think it just like, it was, uh, it worked out well. Um, but, uh, typically what I would say is like, it's, uh, you need to have some sort of, um, leading experience.

So you would need to, um, not, you know, you. You're going to be good at whatever you do. It is like, in the engineer as an engineer, but it's also important to know what it's like to be like, a technical lead, you know, who has the ability to pull triggers on decisions on, like, different subsystem interactions and things like that. 

So, I think the main advice would be that, um. Uh,  growing into positions that, you know, are either like a leading type of position or like a management type of position, I think, um, you, you need to understand how everything work and, you know, also have like a zoom out kind of view instead of, you know, being very focused on the one, um, subsystem or the one task that you might be, uh, working with.

You need to have a zoom view to understand how things, um, you know, work in and out. Mm-hmm, , um, and also have that kind of ownership and, uh, understand why things are. Things are the way they are. Um, so, um, it's just, uh, just.  Having more ownership of getting a more wholesome view of what the, what the system is.

Um, so it's, it's just a matter of like, um, zooming out. And also you want to be able to, uh, uh, like it. Yeah, you do that. Yeah. Do you feel like you still use or connect with some of the skills that you learned in your. Electronics degree and, and those, you know, there may not be applicable exactly to what you do now, but like the.

If you add up all of your experience, do you still use some of that? Oh, yeah, I think it's important. Like, sometimes I initially, I'm like, did I even need to, um, like, would I know this if I didn't go to school? And often the answer is like, no, you, you, you learned this at school. That's how you know, this, um, it might not, like, apply, like, 1 to 1, but like, there's so many things that make up a system.

And there's like, you know, sometimes we're just brainstorming. If there's an issue, we're like, like, why is it not working? It could be a simple thing. Like, maybe, like, maybe a power supply is not working. You know, not capable of supplying that current that these components need. And that just goes back to like, you know, uh, the freshman year or something, you know?

So I'm like, do I, do I, like, would I have known this? And we have conversations about that. And like, yeah, you, you know, this, because you have to agree that that's how you know this. You just didn't know you would apply it. Like, you know, um, applied like this. Right. Right. I try to look at everything I do.

Whether forced or voluntary, like as a learning experience, you can learn something from almost anything that you do that may or may not be relevant to things later. You don't know until your brain decides that like, oh, yeah, I know that thing.  Because of something, whether it was a previous experience or, or, you know, learning something.

Um, and I wanted to connect back to what you said about your, uh, office, was it off business coordinator,  knowing a lot about what you do that a hundred percent. So I just, uh, interviewed, uh, DC's Fragola. Um, she is a supply chain consultant. She works a lot with ERP systems and she helps companies kind of get their supply chain together as they grow.

And. She has a set a background in sales and marketing, and she would read through all these proposals and in the, you know, in her earlier career, she would take the requirements and then put together the proposals and you read through all the requirements and all the things that are in the documents to do.

And that's really how she ended up learning a lot of the nuts and bolts. Of what needs to happen in these, uh, systems and another example would be Leah Dotson. She was, uh, she works for, uh, next link labs, they're called, but they do cybersecurity. Um, they help companies develop software that, uh, for their products that integrate cybersecurity and they do like cybersecurity assessments and things like that.

But she started out as a technical writer. For cyber security, and so she would read or write and then, you know, edit and all these things, all of the documentation for all the cyber security audits and all these things.  And, you know, she's a smart person. Guess what? She picked up the cyber security skills.

So I will say I'm not terribly surprised that if you have a competent, capable, you know, person that can learn as you're, you know, Business coordinator. I mean, she could probably build systems in a few years from now.  Just with having, like, absorbed through osmosis and being part of all the interactions.

Yeah. Yeah. Because, um, she, she's very much, um, she's very, uh, you know, integral to what we do because we have to go through her to, you know, for procurement, for, um, delivery, um, just like logistics, how part of, you know, how parts get here and things like that. And, uh, it is just.  It is just sometimes surprising as to, you know, it's actually very important to, uh, have that, um, have that portion of the business be in the loop about, um, uh, you know, the, just the life cycle of the system, like, even with our designs, we, uh, consult with her on, you know, hey, do you think if we break it down?

Break the system down like this. That would that be better for shipment? So those are the decisions you have to make, you know? Um, and, um, yeah, I, I just think those are like, uh, very, uh, like equally important, uh, parts of it, which as engineers, or like I said, like if you're developers or, you know, if you're very zoomed in and what you're doing, you might not really think about the, you know, ins and outs of it, um, as a whole.

So it's important to, you know, have that perspective and, uh, yeah, she's very important, uh, for us to make sure we're, uh, We're all like, you know, organized and, you know, she helps us be organized and think through things, but, you know, it's, it's incredibly an important element to what we're doing.

Absolutely. So, um, you mentioned that, yeah, that your company is like 50 50, which is not common, right in this industry. Um, it is a bit of an anomaly and it's, it's really nice to hear when you were in school was the ratio anywhere close to 50 50. Um, so, so I want to say my bachelor's, it was, um, it was not uncommon to, um, have the 50 50 ratio, but I do think in fields like mechanical engineering, you would have like, maybe 1 or 2 girls enrolled. 

So, it's still very common to have a very low ratio and certain engineering degrees. Thank you. But at the time when I was graduating my class, I want to say, I don't know if it was exactly 50, but it was, uh, it was not very less. However, when I get my masters, um, at the  enrollment rate, um, at least during the, uh.

In some classes, I would say you would see that difference. Uh, but yeah, it's, it's, uh, like I said, when, when I mention it, um, in passing to someone, I'm like, uh, I just realized that it might not be as common, but because we live and, you know, I work in that environment, it just seems very, very normal to me as it should be. 

Right. Cause it is, it is normal to be surrounded by just, you know, kind of a, a ballot, not it, Like you said, not necessarily 50 50 exactly, but some roughly equal ratio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I think it's important because, you know, you get that different perspective. You have like, you know, just unbiased, um, uh, perspectives of how things work, um, and like that.

So it's really important to maintain that ratio. Um, and yeah, I do see that, especially when I, um, step out for like, um, conferences or things like that. Um, you know, That that's 1 of the things, um, that that usually comes up. So I always get excited when I see, uh, women, especially women who've been there. Uh, I've been in the industry really long because I want to know what they did and, you know, how they got there, how they're able to, you know, continue doing it.

So, I really do get excited when I meet women in the industry. So I try to connect with them, talk to them about their journey. Um.  And yeah, I'm really proud that we, we have the workforce that we do have here  and hopefully that just becomes more and more common and we have more representation and more seats at the table.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I know you said that it was kind of organic and accidental. But now that you're here, and you're, you know, probably going to grow and scale more. Yeah. Is it something that you guys are going to try to keep doing on purpose? Or do you think it's enough to leave it to  Chance.  Um, I think it really, um,  I don't know what, what brought us to this date.

Like I said, it wasn't intentional or, you know, that's not like part of the criteria. Obviously, that's just the best applicant we had, you know, the best performer we had. Um, so, and yeah, we are looking to expand and, you know, we, we keep joking about it in the office. Like, you know, we just need one more, you know, so we can tip the scale a little bit.

Um, so yeah, you always just need the one more. I know you need one more so we can tip the scale. And at some point, I think we were like, uh, you know, we were higher than the guys. And, you know, uh, yeah, we're looking to expand. Obviously, we're always looking to hire, like, uh, good engineers. Um, so, yeah, that happened.

That'll just be very exciting. Um, to, you know, fill up our team. Yeah, what I've seen. So at CodeBeam, we're also actually about around the same number of people. Um, although I think we just hired somebody new. This, uh, we're not think I know we hired.  So at the A3 breakfast, I actually sat next to someone and it said Festo on there.

Um, so I was like, are you Nikki's boss?  And he was like,  I don't remember his name, but he used to be at Festo. Yeah, Roman.  Roman. Oh, did I say Festo? His badge actually said Code Beam, but he used to be at Festo. I was like, are you Nikki's boss? And he was like, uh, yeah. And, uh, again, I'm new to the industry and I didn't know how big of a, uh, you know, cause everybody knew him.

And I was like, okay, so what exactly did you do at Festo? And like, everybody on the table was like appalled that I'm even asking that question because like, everybody's, you know, expecting, um, Again, there's so many people who've been in the industry long enough, but, uh, yeah, I didn't know, uh, the size, uh, size of, um, CodeBeam, but, uh, just remember that, uh, that, uh, I did run into him at the A3 forum.

Roman, if you ever listened to this, I don't think he has time. I don't think he listens to the show, but, um, you, you were a big deal. Uh, I think he would be very happy to hear no, it is true. And, and that is an interesting observation. So I actually at the a3 forum this year, um, was having a conversation with someone and I made a reference to something in my past experience and they were like, Oh, you've been around that long.

Like you're, you're a lot older than you look. And he's like, Oh, maybe that sounded bad. And I'm like, no, no, I, that's okay. Like I get it. Um, I, but yeah, I guess I've been around a while now, but then again, you know, it's all relative, right? Uh, 15 years in the industry. That's a lot compared to somebody that's new or that's five years in maybe.

Um, but to a lot of the people there, that's nothing, you know, I was, I was the new kid on the block when I met them 15 years ago. Yeah. That's how it felt this time. Yeah. Yeah. When I was, when I was at Festo, uh, at the, In that office, I was the youngest person there when I got hired.  Not by a lot, but you know, and then now I'm slowly or not slowly realizing, I think the last couple of years, uh, I've realized I'm never the youngest person in the room anymore. 

It's starting to happen to me too. Yeah. But do you feel when you go to these conferences, because I guess earlier in your career, you were more focused on the engineering. Now you get to go to more of these events, you get to network and stuff. Do you find in general that, uh, it's a welcoming place and people want to know new people and, you know, innovate together or?

Have you had any experiences and you don't have to name anything, any events or anything, but where it feels like a bit of a boys club and you're not exactly, you know, welcomed with open arms as a new person until you have some chops to be taken seriously. Yeah. I mean, oftentimes I feel like these, um, experiences and again, it's been very few for me because again, like I said, the company is also kind of new to this, um, system integration space.

And, uh, for us personally to be attending and networking, uh, with other, you know, industry. Um, other companies in the industry has been kind of like new. I want to say, we've been only doing this for like, the past couple of years. So we're still building those connections. And so far from what I've seen, it's been very, um, uh, very welcoming.

Um, and oftentimes, you know, conversations just don't end there for, you know, and we just don't have the conversations there for the purpose of having it. And we've actually had people come visit us after the fact that they're, you know, they're in the area. So a lot of things have happened, um, after actually, you know, making those connections, um, at the event.

Um, but yeah, there's been, you know, a few where I'm going and I'm looking around and it's like, I don't see I don't see any woman at all. And it's like, we want to do. And again, you know, I get excited and it's the whole thing again, because I want to understand, like, especially women who've been working for, like, 1520 years.

It's just like, very impressive. Like, um, Especially because, uh, I, I became a mom like two, uh, one and a half years ago, and it's a whole other game like being a working mom. So I'm like, yeah, I am shocked that how like some of them are doing it for like 30 years now, you know, so. I'm always like, it's like, it's hard.

So when I, uh, when I see, especially women who've been around for that, uh, that long, I always, you know, try to at least go, uh, talk to them, introduce myself. And it's, it's, uh, generally, uh, it's been very welcoming. And like I said, the conversations don't really end there. We, we try to catch up, um, and connect, uh, offline and after the fact as well, to keep those conversations going and build new connections and, you know, new work. 

Yeah, yeah, I think networking is huge, especially in the smaller, you know, systems integrator side of the business being able to network and refer work to each other because we all kind of have our sweet spots, right? Of things we specialize in things we do really well. Um, and then, you know, depending on the size of the company, sometimes we're capacity constrained.

And so you want to have good relationships with other companies that you can refer your customers to. Um, either if it's not something that's a good fit for you, or you just at the time, you know, you don't want to have customers, you know, waiting two years to get a system from you. If, if, uh, you know, something isn't a good fit or whatever.

So I love to hear that. Yeah. There's a lot of, uh, like synergy that come from, you know, these conferences. And oftentimes, you know, we look at like. The system integrators in the same space as like competitors, but oftentimes there's no like, there's no overlap. So you can actually work together. Um, uh, so, so yeah, I think networking is important.

And also, uh, like I said, it's been very few as compared to some of these people who've been doing it for like a decade or a couple of decades now. Uh, but I feel like even with the, the few numbers that I've personally been to, I feel like I see the same people again, you know, the fact that they remember and, you know, we actually had pinks.

Happened between then and now, uh, you know, behind the scenes building new partnerships, you know, getting on like approved system integrator list, all that, you know, is exciting. And oftentimes the result of, you know, connections like this. Yeah. Yeah, it is. So it's really, um, important to, if you can, in your job, if you're the type of person that's looking for, you know, long term career connections in this industry, I think it is pretty important to try to make it out to some of these in person events. 

So I would highly encourage anybody to, if you can, you know, make a case, To your management, that it's, it's important both for your company and for yourself, just personal, like in career growth, to be able to go out there, make some of those networking connections. It can, it can help in a lot of ways because like, you know, you walk into these conferences and when people have known you for 15 years, starting in that conversation about a new project or a referral or something is, is very different than, than walking up cold.

Uh, Just like you do with any kind of relationship, like customer relationship, things like that. You can even see the difference between like one and like the second one that you go to. Yeah. That's a huge difference because people are warming up to you and, you know, it's just, and I can only imagine that it gets better the longer, you know, you go to these things that maintain those relationships and, you know, so many friendships. 

And sometimes you just have to be around long enough for the right opportunity to come along. Yeah, sometimes that's the case. Yeah. And I've had some customers or potential customers like straight up just tell me, um, yeah, we're really interested. You're just too new. So  like, I see you around next year.

Maybe we'll be ready. Because, you know, it depends on where they're at and what they're doing. But in some cases, it's like, yeah, we just want to make sure that you're like, you're  that you stick around. And that, you know, if they don't know you well, A lot of this is, you know, it's it's all technology, but it's very people based as well.

Very relationship based.  Because the technology isn't going to work on in and of itself on its own. Generally not. You need a competent team to integrate it, especially with vision. It's usually not an out of the box, like set it and forget it type of situation.  Um, is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to make sure to talk about?

Either ask me or cover for our audience or something that they didn't hear about you that you want to share. Um, I guess, um, I've, I've, I've listened to a couple of these, um, episodes, uh, before, and I think you mentioned that you have two, two kids  again, because like, I didn't realize how, um, how much of an undertaking that is. 

Yeah. Do you have any tips?  Um, if you don't, I feel like I see you, um, you know, travel a lot also. And I'm like, wow, she's, uh, you know, she's probably, um,  or something.  Well, my tip is my husband stays at home and takes care of the kids.  It does not mean that I have carte blanche to just travel all the time.

Um, I still am very active parent, but I am the one that's working. Um, my kids are going to school this fall, uh, but we have, we moved around a lot when they were younger. So we, Didn't never put them in like preschool or daycare or anything like that. Um, Actually when I had them we were working in our own business.

So it was very Very demanding but flexible And so i've made sure when I came back to working for somebody else that I had a job that was flexible It will never be not demanding, I think in this industry, especially, and I probably couldn't even work a job that wasn't demanding. I would just get bored immediately.

Um, but it does, you know, it introduces a whole new level of constraints as well as just responsibility. And you realize that somehow you can run on way less sleep and energy than you thought you ever could. Uh, and I heard this also when I had, after I had my first. My baby, uh, and I was doing real estate investing.

One of my partners was like, Hey, we have a baby already. And we're looking at, you know, having a second one. And I just don't know how, how we can do it. We were already like so low on energy. And we, you know, with the one they're like, how do you do it? You have to,  I'm like, I don't know, you know, you just, just like you do with challenges at work or challenging yourself, you kind of  figure it out.

You pull from some reserve that you didn't know existed, uh, there somehow is always, I don't want to say infinitely more for you to pull from, but there's probably more than you think. Yeah. But I would also say I grossly underestimated how drastic of a change it would be to become a parent, uh, in terms of my career.

So I actually had to quit my job that I had at the time that I had my daughter,  uh, because she was really premature and I, my planning was not in line with reality at all. I was going to take four weeks off, uh, and then go straight back to work. And I worked at a startup and it was very demanding  and.

the reality of my, you know, child situation did not match what I had planned for work. And so I did have to make a huge change in a pivot and my family comes first and you kind of don't know, you know, what that feels like until you have children that it's not a, it's not even a question like your children do come first.

Um, if somebody else, you know, feels a different way, I respect that. But for me and every other parent that I know, it, it's kind of, it just is like that, but that does not mean that you can't have. Uh, and I think that this is an important thing for us to talk about because  You know, a lot of us, especially women that are, you know, we're very, I don't want to say career driven.

I'm just driven in general to have make an impact and to create value for those around me. And I really, really enjoy the work that I do. Um, and I did stay at home with my kids for a while, and that.  Was all the lovely and I really, really treasure the time that we had and I wouldn't give it up for anything.

I would not want to be a stay at home mom for a long period of time like that. I really missed and needed that interaction with people and the industry at large. I missed seeing machines, you know, working, making things. I went to pack expo mainly, uh, this was before I had kids though, but I was working in software and I was just like, I just need to hear pneumatics hiss and stuff like that.

So, uh, but yeah, I, I, um, You know, having such few female role models in the industry,  I also sought out like, Hey, there's a woman that has kids and she's successful and she's a manager like I need to talk to her because yeah, I don't I have no idea how she did that, you know, and  I think everybody, you know, it also depends hugely on your family circumstances.

Do you have a support network? Do you live in a place where you have other family around or friends or some sort of childcare options? Um, do you not? I think for me, if my husband wasn't really supportive of my career and willing to take a back seat in some cases for, you know, periods of time for us to be able to balance what we need. 

It would have been very hard for me to come back and do what I do now. So I have to do it kind of with his complete support. And I'm, you know, and I, but I see it though, like for us, it's, it's different. Um, I see my friend, Sammy Birch over at mission automation and design. She's a mom, uh, and her and her husband both work in the industry and, you know, they make that work really well.

Uh, they have a support network at home, you know, to help them with certain things.  Right.  You know, you can't have your cake and eat it to I when I travel, I miss my kids and I wish that I was at home. And it's always that like balance and active feeling guilty for being gone. But at the same time, you don't want to miss opportunities.

And I think that that that's okay. You know, we're, we're complicated people. Beings we're complicated systems, both ourselves and then our families. And then, you know, the outer family, these are all subsystems and systems. If you liked, I like to think like an engineer sometimes. Yeah. Um,  and you kind of just have to find the balance that works for you and you think of your own family as a, as an application to solve, but it's always also, there's just periods of life that are different, right?

So when your kids are really little, you need certain things. And then when they start going to school and they get a little bit more grown up, Things are different.  So that's why I'm such a huge advocate for technology being able to make our career, our work lives, like more flexible because. We, as an industry have done a poor job of inviting people in that have different needs than what the, these engineering jobs have traditionally required.

And they've been traditionally kind of built for a male purse or a person that doesn't have. You know, that can put family responsibilities in the on the back burner or in the backseat. They've been able to, you know, have crazy travel schedules and fly all the time and, you know, work these specific hours and not be available for after school activities or school drop offs or pickups or whatever.

And that, I think, has limited a lot of the talent that has come into our industry. But looking at you and like your coworkers and, you know, like you said, when you were,  I guess it was your bachelor's, right? Where there were a lot of women, it was a very healthy balance. Um, I'm very excited about what those, that talent brings to our industry, if we can get more of them.

Uh, because yes, it's complicated sometimes and we have kids, but at the same time, like we bring things to the table, I think that are invaluable when we look at the system as a whole, whether it's an engineering team or a company, right. Um,  Especially moms, we learn to multitask and juggle and like,  deal with a lot of situations.

Yeah. Is there anything like, can you think of since you became a mom, um, something that's transferred from home life to work skills? Uh, I think so. Um, I don't think I've been really good at multitasking anyways. And that's just not been my personality. So it's more like the line and conquer. Okay. Yeah. So it's like, when I'm at work, and I'm really grateful to, you know, have that same. 

And I'm really grateful to have access to like daycare and childcare, which is like, incredibly expensive, but it also lets me, you know, uh, be, uh, my best self, um, uh, you know, for, for the company and for my professional growth. Right? So, it's like, when my, you know, I dropped my daughter at daycare and then 100 percent of the time, you know, present at work and, you know, getting things done.

And as soon as I leave and I'm going home, I'm like, in my 100 percent like mom's own. So it's more of like, when like, uh, divide and conquer. Um, yeah, I think for me, um, and I often hear the same kind of perspective, like, you know, we're naturally, you know, expected to like multitask or, you know, have that ability to switch between different things.

So, yeah, I don't think it brings in a whole other perspective, which is why I'm like, when I see, especially, you know, Women in STEM generally itself is very exciting. Um, it's always good to have that different perspective and that different voice at the table. Um, but especially, uh, you know, somebody who's been around for, like, over a couple of decades.

Um, I really want to know, you know, how are you  doing it all or are you dividing and conquering, you know, what's worked for you? It's just it's just nice to know that perspective because, uh, me too. I also really underestimated, uh, you know, how much life changes, you know, um. So, and I can't believe like everybody goes to it.

I'm like, wow, it's, it's very impressive that, you know, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's more common than we think. Yeah. Yeah. But like you said, it is kind of important to have some role models to look up to or some examples of that. Hey, this is possible. This person has, in fact, made it through the years I'm in right now  and, you know, made it through their career and gotten to this point where you see yourself maybe one day. 

And I've always been able to look up to male role models just fine, but there is a, an aspect to this that you kind of need to see somebody in that has more things that you can relate to  when, when you look at, like, what's ahead for you. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's always important to know, um, you know. Like, like you said, there's different times, you know, there's different needs.

Um, you know, it's, it's, uh, they're going to need you more when, you know, they're younger. And then as they get older, less, they would need you when, you know, it's different, the kind of balance that you have, uh, but yeah, it keeps changing and it's just very interesting, uh, to also see that perspective. Yeah.

Yeah. So any young moms out there in the industry, if you're listening to this and you want to commiserate or camaraderie, reach out to me or Yamini or the automation ladies, uh, you know, inbox on, on LinkedIn, we can, we can have a channel for that. We're actually going to be starting a discord community, I think, uh, soon.

So. This is where I, in the future, I would say join our discord and join the mom's channel. Cause I guess there's, there will be a mom's channel on the automation ladies discord. Uh, now that I've said it out loud. So yeah, any, any kind of, you know, thing that you're going through, if you're not at a company as great at easy automate as easy automation systems in terms of having, you know, other women to relate to or talk to at your own workplace.

That's kind of what we started the podcast for along with a number of other reasons. Is, uh, if you're not as lucky as we are to have that at your workplace, then you can have that outside your workplace, um, as part of our community, or there's a number of wonderful women's organizations that you might find yourself fitting in at or, or liking.

Um, automation ladies is going to be where like at me and Allie are at the, like 15 years of experience mark. There's other places where you'll find the 30 years of experience, you know, executives, uh, we're not those people, but there's something you can learn, I think from everybody. So with that, I think we're probably a little long on time.

Sorry, Laura. But then, uh, I will go ahead and just go ahead and ask our last question, which is. Where can people find you, connect with you if they want to work with easy automation systems, or they want to follow you personally, maybe somebody is, you know, five years behind where you are and they look at you as a mentor, uh, where can people find you and what should we expect to see from you, um, going forward or in the, in the short term until we catch you next.

So, uh, we're very active on linkedin. So, uh, you know, we can be reached at our linkedin page. It's called easy automation systems. Um, and like I said, we're very active. So we respond pretty quickly. Um, or you can reach me personally. Um, it's by what the bully at easy systems dot com. Um, I'm also pretty good at, um, getting back.

So, yeah, that's where you can reach me. And unfortunately, this year, we won't be presenting at automate. However, I'm going to be walking the floor at, um, Chicago with, um, I'm at the general manager. So, you know, uh, hopefully we can also, we'll be there at automate. So, uh, we can also, um. Be available there.

Okay. Yeah. And Ali and I will be doing interviews that automate live again this year as well as the addition of being able to do we'll be doing some in booth interviews with a 3 that we can condense into videos and things is pretty cool.  But if I, I'm going to throw this out there, the. The place that you know that you can find us is going to be the Harding booth.

I don't remember the number of it at the moment, but on the Tuesday we're going to be spending most of the day with Harding doing some interviews in the booth and that sort of thing. So I will definitely make sure that we get a chance to meet up at Automate this year. We don't have our own booth, so we'll be posting different places people can find us at different times.

It can be hectic. You go to these shows and it's great to know people, but then it's like, sometimes you're like running around trying to find the people, you know, catching them at the right time. So thank you so much for joining us on the show. And I really look forward to seeing you again in Chicago.

And then hopefully just, you know, staying in touch and seeing where your career takes you. Yeah. Sounds good. It was, it was great to be on. Awesome. Have a great rest of your Thursday, Wednesday. It's Wednesday. Yeah. We're pre recording. Uh, hope you have a great rest of your week. Bye. Thanks. You too. Bye.