Welcome to another episode of Scandinavian crimes. My name is Devante and say hello to my lovely co-host Delila. Hi.
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And on this podcast, we cover famous Scandinavian criminals who made their mark throughout Scandinavian history.(...) So last episode, I forgot to say Happy New Year's. So happy belated New Year's, I guess. But this is not going to be a regular episode. As you know, this is going to be an update episode.(...) For those of you who are new or maybe you're just watching or listening to this episode for the first time, basically, these episodes are updates based on previous cases we may have covered when there's new information about the case or there's updates in the case, because the whole point of the podcast is to keep you updated and make sure you're in the loop about a lot of these cases that take place throughout, you know, random times of our lifetimes. So this case has to do with the terrorists, Anders Behring Breivik.(...) For those of you who don't know or maybe you didn't listen to the previous episode, I think you should listen to that probably before you listen to this one. But just to give you the Cliff Notes version of the whole situation,
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basically, this man is in prison because he himself had killed 77 people in a bombing and shooting rampage in Norway in 2011.(...) Uh, he actually severely injured a lot of people way more than I think. How much was the delay? Like 120 something people were injured.
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A good chunk of them severely, right? Yeah, there was a lot of people who were injured, but they were like 77 people that were killed. Yeah, he killed them outright, which is a that's a huge. I think it was 300 people who were injured and killed in 77 in the war. Like the ones who were over 300. Yeah, yeah.
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So this update involves him. Now, he was a far right extremist in Norway, so he would kill people he believed looked didn't look like the, you know, ideal right wing
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image in his head.(...) So he was killing people who were immigrants. He was killing people who didn't have the blonde hair, blue eye kind of, you know, look to themselves.
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Or who were like left like politically or like left. Yeah, he would kill people if they look like they were politically left. That's also true. Right. Right. So the update regarding him is very interesting. And I know there's a lot of people talking about it. And also we have some opinions about it. But so I'm going to read this article. The current article that I'm reading is from CNN, and I'm going to post it in a link tree so you can read it for yourself. But also because it's happened recently within from this episode, I think it's only been a week since we're recording. And since it's going to be released,(...) it'll still be pretty much talked about. But I'm going to read the article and just a small fraction of it, a small chunk. And then we'll kind of talk about the situation and just give our opinions and you guys can do the same as well. So here we go.(...) So Anders Bering Brevik, the far right fanatic who killed 77 people in a bombing and shooting rampage in Norway in 2011, appeared in a court set up in his prison on Monday to launch a legal bid to end his years in isolation. Wearing a black suit, white shirt and brown tie, Brevik said nothing and made no gesture as he entered the hearing set up in the gym of the high security jail 70 kilometers, four miles northwest of the capital of Oslo, of the capital Oslo.(...) The 44 year old sat impassively while the lawyer laid out his argument and the conditions of his detention violated his human rights. He has been isolated for 12 years, the lawyer said, and told the hearing he is only in contact with professionals and not other inmates. In earlier court filing, Storvik had argued the isolation had left Brevik suicidal and dependent on antidepressant medication Prozac.(...) Brevik, who emailed out who emailed out copies of the manifesto before his attack, setting his theories, is suing the state and also asking the court to lift the restrictions on his correspondence with the outside world. He killed eight people with a car bombing in Oslo, then gunned down 69 others. So there there goes some details about how he did what he did. Most of them teenagers at the Labor Party youth camp in Norway's worst peacetime atrocity peacetime atrocity. His case has been a grim test for a country that is still shaken to its core by the horror of his acts, but has also long taken pride in the rehabilitation efforts of its justice system. So like I said, the article has a whole bunch more that you can read, but I read this chunk in particular because it's regarding him trying to get out of isolation
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in prison and kind of interact with other inmates.
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So I don't know if you want to start the chat, Delila, or I can kind of start it. And you know,(...) I would also like to add a couple of things. The article just mentioned this as well.
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But also for those who do not know how the prison system works in Norway or in Scandinavia in general,
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the cells are very,
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I would say, pretty homey. It has even though the walls are pretty white.
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They do have a place like a library. They do have a very comfortable like they do have TV or games and like an area of where they all all the inmates can communicate and like just do activities. And they also have opportunity to like do a bunch of different things and activities. And, you know, there's more freedom of like them being able to walk and go around the prison compared to America, where it's like very
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strict in a way.
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So in this case,
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Breivik is a special case because obviously of his past and what he and the crime and terrorism that he has committed,
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which led to him being isolated or put in a separate cell compared to the other inmates.
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So he has a separate cell where he only obviously will see other police or, you know, prison officers.
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But they have given him
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like his own like
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things like activities of sorts of like reading or games and TV, even three parro... What's the bird's name?(...) - Was it parrots? - Yeah, parrots. Yeah, like three parrots so that he can... Studies have shown that animals are very good, you know, to social, you know, animals are very good to have for those, obviously for anybody.
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So he has those. And that's I think that's important to know, like how he's living in the cell. But he does not have any type of communication at all with the other inmates in any way, but he is living quite OK and nice.
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It's not that they don't care about him. It's not that he's like having a little small cell, white walls and barely a bed. It just is there. He has actually other activities and other things they can do.
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I will also say as well that well, not say as well, but Delila kind of explain how the living situation is. But so the controversy when it comes to this particular case, most people seem to think he's complaining, you know, which if I'm being completely honest, I agree he's complaining.
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But his argument is like, oh, they're violating my human rights. I can't talk with other people.(...) And what I guess he doesn't realize and with most other countries is that when you are a terrorist, which he is, he's an absolute terrorist, he his goal was to create terror,(...) mass terror.
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Basically, you're a national threat to the country,(...) whether it be the US, whether it be Norway, whether it's Sweden, any country, you're a threat.(...) So naturally, you're not treated the same compared to someone who committed crime, let's say, versus out of necessity. You know, someone who may have stolen money or even if you did kill someone versus killing someone out of passion or, you know, premeditated murder over something petty, your goal wasn't to create mass, you know, hysteria, mass terror or kill massive groups of people. It was very targeted.(...) And the fact that he himself was trying to kill as many people as he could before he get arrested,
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he's a threat.
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And to be honest, like I'm not saying, you know, America is the greatest when it comes to our criminal justice system, because it's not. But the fact that he even has an opinion and the ability to come to court and even make this argument, I'm lonely. I mean,(...) who like this is like my opinion, who kind of cares like, you know, a little bit because it's like you killed 77 people, injured hundreds of people for what?
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Now, many people are probably lonely because of the people you've killed, but you're still alive. You're living off of Norway's, you know, tax paying dollars.
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But your goal was to kill as many and most of those people who were killed were citizens. They were citizens. No matter how they look, they were supposed to be where they were. And he still killed them anyway. And then he's in court saying like, oh, you know, I feel lonely. Like, do you not hear how that sounds after what you've done?(...) And even if you've read some more of the other articles as well, he's a threat because there's people trying to contact him because he's inspiring more right wing people to kind of act like this. What was it? There was a church shooting in New Zealand, a mosque shooting in New Zealand. Yeah, there's been a lot of people who were inspired by him and, you know, copycat crimes afterwards. And also like he did inspire, as you said, a lot of people. And that's why I understand why they like they don't want him to have contact with anybody.(...) And he also said that he would that he would like to have, you know,(...) Tinder and or have like somebody to like send a postcard to like a postal friend.
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And like,(...) you know, I.
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As you say, I actually like, I don't think that's a good idea.
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Mainly because of the severity, as you say, because the type of crime he committed was terrorism.
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And if he would try to have communication or talk with somebody, he could manipulate them into committing or continuing his crimes and stuff like that.
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So I do understand the severity, but some part of me also believe like being isolated like that is not really helping him to like. Be better because the point of the system of prison system, isn't it not to like actually.
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Prevent them from like, you know,(...) doing what's it called, reenacting the crime again or also and also be able to like heal and be better because I feel like because of what his crimes that he committed, they kind of just like, OK,(...) you are threat. You will never see the sunlight again. And they just put him in jail because he was such a huge threat.
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And they I feel like he's just they just in this case, it might be good to just put him there because of the safety of Norway and other people or the world. You know, we don't know how far he can go. Because there's people who actively like they were executing, like you said, copycats.
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There are people who are actively who saw what he did in 2011 and then just a few short years after that were doing what he did to like I said, the mass shooting in New Zealand was I forgot the guy's name, Brenton, I forgot his last name, but that whole mosque that happened in 2015, it was out of control. It was literally he said he was inspired by Brevik.
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So in situations like this, yes, he's a threat communication with someone like that is a threat because you'll encourage other people to do that. And then what's going to happen then? You don't know who they're going to target, especially Brevik was in an area where there was a lot of concentrated population,(...) politicians, people.
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So he's a national threat. So truthfully, the fact that he would have any other type of crime he committed,(...) you know, be obviously he'd been trying to get parole and, you know, have a chance to get out of prison multiple times. And this is probably a way for him to have some type of like, you know, outside experience.
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But to me, he doesn't want to get a lesson.
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To me, it sounds like he never learned a lesson. How do you kill that many people within your first instinct? I want parole. I want to get out. Yeah, like the parole and also like, you know, I feel lonely, me, me, me. But the point is not about you. It's about like, you know, what you did and you have to like, I don't know. It's as you say, I feel like if if he would have committed some other type of crime where it was not terrorism,(...) I think it was valid to not be isolated. Right. Isolation is only, in my opinion, I think it's just. Defy it obviously for terrorism because, you know, that can kind of spread and and stuff.
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But, you know, I guess it depends on what type of severity of the crime.(...) I think obviously I don't think that it's I don't think he should have any type of contact.(...) Maybe he need a therapist. Oh, wow. I said that weird, but therapist, I think a therapist wouldn't.(...) Yeah, you know, I fucked up. It happens.
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I think that might help out to sort out things. Try to like heal his mind.(...) But, you know,(...) and also for everybody, I'm not going to be like I'm not a supporter of him. I'm just trying to be like the devil's advocate thing, trying to have a good conversation discussion.
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But, you know, isolation is, you know, there are studies that have shown that it can give severe, you know,(...) consequences.
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And so I can understand that, like, obviously they will try to, you know, sue the state because of it. But based on what he has done, I don't think it's like, you know,(...) it shouldn't go anywhere. And it seems like from what I've seen online, most people are in agreement of that. Then everybody's like, I don't care. Look what you did, you know, obviously.
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Yeah, so I don't want to. And the tender part is wild. Yeah, I'm like, who would even match with like, like, mm, I said, mm, Andrew is perfect.(...) He killed. Yeah, I just I want to put on his profile. I'm in isolation. I'm in jail. I'm in prison.(...) I'm the famous terrorist. Like, like, I don't know. Just think about it. Like, do you know, like, how entitled do you have to be to think after everything you've done,
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not even just the isolation part, that you deserve to be able to access tender just so you can be romantically involved with someone,
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or release whatever physical tension you have after everything you've done. He thinks he can have a life after what he did. And I don't think you realize that like nobody is on his side.(...) You know, I just like I pretty much said what like, for the most part, everything I thought, just that you can just tell, like, there's no sense of, you know, like, oh, I made a mistake. His mind is very interesting. Yeah, he's very much still into himself and what he believes and all about him. What was their psychological evaluations? I can't remember if they did any. I don't remember it with him being like he's aware of what he's doing. Yeah, he was confident to stand trial, which is why he's in the situation that he's in now.(...) So he had something like was it personality disorder? What was it? It might have been a personality disorder.(...) I don't remember the top of my head for some reason. I remember like vaguely it was something with like personality disorder, but he was very well aware of what he was doing. Like it was not because of his like personality disorder, if I remember correctly, but I don't know. I mean, like I said, I'm pretty confident he had a personality disorder.
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I just don't remember what the personality disorder was or what his diagnosis was completely off the top of my head.(...) But the beauty of technology, let's see if we can look it up.
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Just really quickly, you know, just so that way we can. Because I remember,(...) you know, it was a lot. We like the script was very long and it was a very like we tried to be as detailed as possible on just that specific episode,(...) obviously, because it was a huge, you know, there's a lot of information about that case.
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Yeah, because he because there was a whole part where we did the planning process that he had his manifesto. Yeah, the planning process, the funding, everything.
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So let's see, they searched through his online history,(...) his psychic evaluation. He went through an examination in 2011 by a court appointed forensic psychiatrist. They diagnosed him with all he paranoid schizophrenia, stating that he had developed disorder. I remember that. I remember that he developed a disorder over time. It was psychotic during the attacks and the observation period. So basically, they're trying to say he was experiencing that. And also he had a substance abuse issue and that he was there. I was trying to argue that he was criminally insane, even though they tried to. But like when the psychiatrist,(...) they found out that no, he's very, he's very understanding of what he's doing. He planned for like nine years. Yeah, it wasn't like a spur of the moment thing. The fact that he had a manifesto and planned it over the course of years meant that he was very coherent about what he was going to do. And yeah, so basically, that's what they try to argue in court that he was not aware. It wasn't a personality disorder. Theo was full blown schizophrenia, but schizophrenia is different for everybody. He was worried. OK, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, that makes sense, too. But still. Yeah. And I know isolation can make schizophrenia worse, but he's a threat. You know, like that's a no go. Yeah, there's no way for him to get out.
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Well, I'll see. But I think that like I think that the lawyer and also he is very smart with using the isolation as a type of like tactic reason. Because it's some truth in it as well.(...) But I think I think it was a smart move.(...) But he's been trying to get parole. He's been trying to get out for like years.
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He's like, it's been years now. Get over it. It's like everyone's like, no, it's like, no, you're not going to get over it.
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Yeah, so just once again, exact numbers. Seventy seven victims were killed. Two hundred and nine were injured. That's a couple hundred people injured. So it was two hundred and nine. OK, so it was over two hundred. Over two hundred people were hurt. And then he was targeting government facilities, civilians and workers at the Youth League summer camp.(...) So he he had a wide range because remember he put on a police vest,(...) blended in. He was constantly police peeps. Yeah, so now he was no way he was going all out. He was coherent. Now that I'm like reading more, like going back to the case, it was crazy. He planned this. He he did everything. Like he knew what he was doing. I was just like, I wasn't sure if he had like what type of evaluation they did.
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Because like I'm like, who in their right mind be like, I want Tinder.(...) And I'm like, but like, why?
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Because I can't even fathom. Like, I mean, why? Because he's a man and has desires and he feels like he deserves to. I don't think it's about desires. I think it's just he wants to talk with somebody and I feel like he might like manipulate them into something. See me personally, because people who are searching for love are the most could be easily manipulated as well. True.(...) But Tinder, at least historically, everyone who's like millennial and below, we know like Tinder is primarily for hookups.
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Yeah, but maybe he doesn't know that.
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Tinder was around. Come on, like, I don't know if he had access to internet. I don't think he has access to internet. But I think when he went to jail, I think Tinder was to like TV and he's like, oh, Tinder is a dating app, you know, commercials and stuff like that.
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I think I think Tinder was around when he.
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I will.
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From him correctly. That happened 2011.
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It says in September 2012, Tinder had a soft launch in the App Store.
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When was it 2012?
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So he was on trial in 2012 still.
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Yeah, the beginning of Tinder was not about hookup in the beginning. It was actually a dating site.
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Sure, but most dating sites are about hookups. It kind of quickly ended up being a hookup thing.(...) But most that's usually most dating apps, to be honest. Tinder, OKCupid. No, there are more serious dating apps, though, than Tinder. Christian Mingle.(...) Oh, my God. OK, why are we talking about this? Well, the point is, the point is, I personally just think he was on Tinder because he wants a little fun time to release. I think he's doing some manipulation thing that he wants, like, I don't know. I'm just going based off the article because they specified. Because there's no way he can like even date. Like, how are they going to date? Hey, you just like. He wants conjugal visits. He wants to get with someone to marry them so he can get conjugal visits. He can't have sex with anybody.
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I'm not saying that's true. People who are isolated. I agree with you, but I feel like he but that's that's why he's trying to argue to get out of it because he wants that.
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Because they specify the difference between him wanting to talk to other inmates to make friends versus him wanting to download Tinder.
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Those are two different types of if you just wanted a friendship, they're completely different. Yeah, he would just argue that. Oh, I just want to be in gen pop. I just want to make other friends. You can still have sex with inmates, though. Right. But that's that's my argument. So they specified that he wanted friends with other inmates and he wanted Tinder.
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So he wants friends and he wants a relationship. OK, I thought it was like that or the other. He wanted both. He wanted to just talk with somebody. He wanted both.
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So he wants to make friends. Greedy then. Oh, my God.
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And he's like demanding things. No, no, no. That's not how it's going to go. He's like, oh, I'm isolated.(...) I'm isolated. I think I deserve, you know, to have Tinder and all that stuff. And yeah, he's pretty much gone. So but either way, I think we've been recording for a little while, I think.
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Yeah.(...) Currently, also, this is the judges or the trial or anything. Nothing has really happened yet. But as soon as we get the result of that, we will also make another update episode of that. And also, we probably going to get more information of how the trial went and we can make like an update video of that. Sorry, update episode of that as well. Yeah, we'll try to do more update episodes as we get into more recent cases, because updates tend to come out about things that happened in like, you know, 2010, you know, to 2020, you know, so we'll do more update episodes as they come along.(...) But especially if you guys enjoy it. But this was just a little update so that way you can see that some of these cases are still affecting us today in current history.(...) And our goal on this podcast is not only to bring awareness, not only to help people, you know, see these scenarios and avoid them, but also to just bring this information to you so that way we can avoid it and not repeat history, not repeat the same mistakes.(...) So let's end the podcast on a good note once again. Let's try to be adventurous. You know, let's do something we've never done. Let's in terms of food, let's really try and like nail this home with this, with this good vibes. So say something that you've never done. I want a crappy patty.
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That's that's very... Crappy patty is a candy in real life, but you know, I was trying to realize that. Oh, you mean like in real life. Yes. Come on now. You know, out of the box, like, come on, like something completely different. Like, I'm like, OK, well,(...) a crappy patty, you know, that's I wanted to try that, you know,(...) but I guess you mean in real life. I don't know. Yes. Out of the box thing. Think hard.
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A double waffle with spinach and shrooms with some cheese in it. OK, OK, that's good. But that's not really like anything like, oh, but I guess people don't really eat that often like that. I don't know. OK, that's OK.
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I think I'm going to go with.
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So I saw something on TikTok, not TikTok, sorry, Instagram, where they had like this. I forgot what kind of pork it was, but it was like similar to the cut. That's like where you get bacon from. But it's the full. Pork belly, pork chops. It might have been pork belly. It might have been pork belly. But they took some Spanish rice out of Campaglia, right? And then they like put it. They cooked the rice the way that you do. And then they stuffed it into the pork, right? Seasoned the pork and then they baked it in the oven and the top of the skin was crunchy, but the inside was juicy and the rice was. Oh, my.
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Sounds delicious. It was heaven. I'm going to send you that video.
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So that's what I'm going to go with.
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But I hope you guys enjoyed today's episode and feel free to leave comments and kind of reach out about today's episode. Let me know how you feel about it and this whole brevick situation.(...) Also be sure to go into your podcasting platforms if you enjoy the episodes and leave us a nice little friendly review. Let's the podcast platform know that we are very loved and appreciated.(...) And yeah,(...) I hope you guys stay safe. I hope you guys, you know,(...) you know, just pay attention.(...) And like I say, every single episode of the last one, like, oh, you see this all the time.(...) Fight for your life. If you're ever in a situation which I pray you say the same. God, you say so many times. Yeah, you know, just if you're ever in a situation,(...) fight for your life, protect yourself, protect your family, live to see another day. And we'll see you in the next one.
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Peace out.(...) Bye.