Welcome to Scandinavian Crimes. My name is Delila and say hello to my lovely co-host, Devante.(...) Hi.
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And on this podcast, we will cover famous Scandinavian criminals who made their mark throughout Scandinavian history.(...) Yes. So as you noticed, it is my time to read.(...) And I don't know why, but we're just going to try something different and see if you guys like it.(...) So on this episode, we will, well, first of all, this is the first mini episode we're going to do where we're going to talk about a short case with limited information, and then we're going to add some room for more discussion.
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So remember that last episode, we talked about the wrongfully convicted Fritz Moyen,(...) and how the judge called Soule Bari. Reputation basically became marred by him basically doing a ton of miscarriage of justice.(...) And one of his famous miscarriages was the wrongful conviction of Atle Hage, which we mentioned last episode as well.(...) And we are going to talk about this episode.
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So this is grab your tea. Oh yeah, I need to say this. Grab your tea, grab your snacks, whatever you feel comfy with. I mean, you don't have to do my thing. Well, I have to, because I don't know what else I can do. Either way, we are going to continue on with the story of the wrongfully convicted Atle Hage.(...) And by the way, this is more of a casual episode, so it's not going to be as polished. Yeah, as you notice, because I'm a noob. Either way, let's start.
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Atle was wrongfully convicted in 1984 of sexually abusing his son, Oystein and his daughter Nina, receiving a three-year prison sentence solely based on his ex-wife's allegations during a continuous divorce.(...) Despite his children's denials of any abuse, they were unable to testify in his defense at trial due to concerns raised by psychologists
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about potential trauma.(...) Following his release, Atle struggled to clear his name, and after futile attempts to prove his innocence, he tragically took his own life at the age of 40 in 1987.(...) Years after his suicide in April 1998, the now-adults Oystein and Nina pursued legal action to vindicate their father's reputation.(...) They steadfastly maintained their father's innocence and sought to clear his name. The prosecutor, acknowledging the inadequacy of the evidence against Atle, expressed dissatisfaction with his conviction, which relies solely on his ex-wife's accusations,(...) and the testimony of psychologists who had been influenced by her narrative. The charges of incest had arrived during a bitter divorce and custody battle, and during which the children were shielded from questioning due to concerns about their psychological distress.
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Upon reviewing the evidence in Trondheim District Court, the prosecutor recommended a posthuman acquittal. Trondheim District Court, in its decision to clear Atle, criticized the psychologists or the many expert psychologists involved in the case, who had testified in the initial trial of unquestionably accepting the mother's testimony without thorough examination. Consequently, the Trondheim District Court exonerated Atle in April 1998.(...) So that is basically it of the case. I am sorry if I was not as good as Tevante, but we will now go towards the discussion part.
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So before we go to that, I guess we have to mention that this limited... like first of all, there's like no not a lot of information about this whole case. It's only mentioned, but it has only been mentioned with the last case to just kind of like say that there's a lot of miscarriage of justice.
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And there's not a lot of studies regarding incidences like this or similar incidences as the previous episode.(...) So we thought that we were just going to have a free form kind of discussion about what we thought about this case and maybe also a little bit of the last episode. So how do you feel about this one? I feel like even though the few studies that are out there mentioned that, oh, this is very rare that somebody will be falsely accused of
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anything and miscarriage of justice is very like it's not common to be falsely accused. I feel like it's very,(...) especially in relationships with divorce and stuff like that, that you can...
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I've seen incidents like that maybe not in Scandinavia, but like around the world where I've seen incidents where women have falsely accused men or the opposite that men have falsely accused women to be a certain type of way.(...) And I don't know why there's no more studies about this,(...) but I know that this might be a very interesting topic for you to talk about because you're a very good expert in this field. I'm dead, thank you.(...) You know, when I was studying this and getting my degree in Harvard, I'm joking.(...) But yeah, this is like a very interesting subject matter false allegations and stuff like this in general, because one thing that we obviously found out when looking up what information we could find and also just forming a hypothesis about why a lot of this stuff is still not available,(...) it's mostly because a lot of it is underreported.(...) So, and more specifically as well, I'm not making this a gender thing once again, but more specifically as well, we have even less information in regards when it comes to, you know, like female accusations, false accusations against male partners.(...) So, especially in custody battles, it's very common that partners will say and do things to try and get the partner to basically seem like they're a bad person. And I know at least in the US statistically, that is something that's extremely common, but obviously none of which is reported properly and, you know, recorded properly. And I know four or five people alone who have kids and then unfortunately in a court, they'll do whatever it takes to get custody, not because of the well-being of the child, but because to discredit the parent just so they can get even for not wanting to be with them or they feel like, "Oh, they deserve the kids." It's never for the sake of the children, unfortunately, which is why(...) I think in most developed countries, the family court needs to be kind of redone because there needs to be a full evaluation on both parents, not just, you know, financially, but mentally.
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You have to interact with the children, understand the relationship with each of the parents, to really understand like, "Okay, this is the optimal situation for both or whatever, how many kids you have." So it's just, you know, this stuff we're learning today in 2024, we're getting more information about this stuff today. And this is something that's never really been of concern, you know, especially back in the day, because, you know, they didn't really care about stuff like that, you know, and we're just now learning that, you know, this is a real problem and not just in the US, not just, you know, Norway, Sweden, just everywhere. It's a problem.(...) So that's, I mean, that's how I feel about it. I feel like it also shows a lot more now today due to technology, like people record now.(...) Also, people have a lot of like, you know, cameras in their home, everywhere.(...) So things can be like, proven.(...) But I think that because of, you know, the severity of just specifically this case, but in other cases as well, is that the true victim is the one who's getting, you know,
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falsely convicted.(...) And then they got to spend years in like jail and also will be after when they're released, they will have this kind of like stamp of being a criminal or being a predator or, you know, whatever.(...) And this ruins one's mental health. And even if you fight, you might not, in this case, he was able to after his death, get some, you know,(...) what's it called? Redemption, I guess that his name is got cleared and even Fritz took him like he had, he was, he even, he died before he was able to clear his name. Right. So it's like, he died with that on his mind, like that reputation.(...) So people after him, they know, like, okay,(...) time of kit, like Atlas kids. And it's just wrong. It is not okay. I get it that if you get it, I don't know. Obviously, we don't know about Atlas relationship with the wife. Maybe he was a jerk. We don't know that.(...) But I still believe that it's not okay to put somebody in jail innocently if they didn't really commit a crime. Like that's, you know, that's what I think, at least.(...) And, you know, I think recently, they've started having more and more organizations against injustices. I know there's a big one in the States.(...) But I don't think I don't know if we have it over here, or maybe we just have some law firms that have like a small section that do things pro bono or something over here. I have no idea.(...) But I know in the States, they have like a organization that like something similar to the innocence program. Like I know you got something similar like that. I think we have some, we might have some organization. We don't, we might not have like something that specifically worked with like miscarriages. I know in the States, you guys have like specific organizations just for that, you know. Yeah, it's called the innocence program. It's specifically for people who, how long has it been? Like, how long has it been for quite some time? I forget truthfully. It's been around for, yeah, like at least like 40, 50 years, something like that. Okay.(...) Because like, I think that it's more recently that people might take it more seriously. But I still feel like there's a lack of research in general, at least when it comes to relationship. Miscarriage of justice, it's just hard to do any research on because there's such a large number that we don't really know.
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Like this, impossible to like measure that in general.
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But they try to do like, you know, you can receive compensation and money, but like, is it worth it? They both died in this case, both Fritz and Apley. What are they gonna do with money?(...) Like, even if you get justice, you get money and then what? Like that will never take away the mental,(...) the pain, the pain, the time, you know.(...) Yeah.(...) But also, because I don't know if you wanted to get deeper into it, but I don't think it's completely necessary because the whole point of a mini episode is to kind of give you guys seed. I mean, it's up to you. It's as I said, free form. We could just talk about whatever we want to.(...) I just have one thing I want to mention, but like, I think you can go ahead if you want to say something. Well, one thing I want to make sure everyone understands also too, is that wrongful convictions, you know, it's very situational. It's not like a cookie cutter in one way in terms of how to fix the problem or what the cause of the problem is.(...) A lot of the times it can be several things, you know, faulty eyewitness, false confessions, false and misleading evidence,(...) basically police misconduct as well, and just legal representation and just a lot of different things that can cause problems with the case in itself, which is why initially when you do an investigation, you know, all the way from you get arrested, you get arraigned, and then, you know, they take you to court and all that stuff. The whole point is supposed to be a very tight, you know,(...) sequence of events that keep not only evidence from being polluted, but also making sure the police are following certain procedures and witnesses are following certain procedures and prosecutions following certain procedures. And when any of those chain of, you know, events are broken, you know, then, you know, in theory, the whole point is it's supposed to be a mistrial because then something got, you know, wasn't doing what it was supposed to do. But unfortunately, we live in a very imperfect world.(...) And sometimes stuff like this can happen and people can still get convicted on faulty evidence or faulty situations because they broke the chain of, you know, some cases a chain of evidence or even just a chain of basically how to handle this case. So I want people to keep that in mind. There's different reasons and different solutions and you have to kind of try and figure out what works for what situation to solve whatever problem caused that situation just to get in mind. But also that I want to point out as well that I think it's very important for everybody to know that, you know,
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there obviously there's always going to be victims in sexual abuse, physical abuse, domestic violence in general. And their cases don't always get taken seriously because of instances like this,(...) where there might be people who lie or falsely, you know, falsely accuse somebody and hence their cases who the real victims might not be taken seriously.(...) So, you know,(...) that's also an issue that I saw when I searched like, based on research that a lot of people trying to say that use that as an excuse.(...) And I think that it's just horrible that when(...) somebody lies about and falsely accuse somebody, there's two different victims here. It would be the victim who gets falsely accused, but also the people who will not be taken seriously at all when there is when they go through abuse or any type of like, you know, trauma like that.
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And it just sucks.(...) And it's sad that people do that for what? Because they're petty, they want to have revenge,(...) you know, I don't know.(...) I mean, it's for different reasons, you know, everyone wants to get back at their partner and make their life inconvenient because they feel, and unfortunately, this is the case as well, that just people feel like, well, if you don't want to be with me, you're not going to get the child either. Like they feel like the child is the only way to, you know, get even with that person, which outside of the case, be careful who you have children with, you know, pay attention to the signs, as I always say, you know, not everyone is who they say they are.(...) And some people will, if you see, if you see red flags, and this just goes to life in general, you know, if you see something, if someone shows you who they are,(...) believe them. That's the saying that we have. Well, basically, you see something, don't ignore it, you know,
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yeah.
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Um, anything else? That's basically what I wanted to say, you know, try to be cautious with who you're getting married to and have kids with,(...) in general, just being in a relationship with.(...) And, you know,(...) don't lie. If you're a true victim,(...) please, always report it, gets as much evidence as possible. And you know,(...) lying is not gonna help anybody, it's just gonna ruin somebody's life for no reason.
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And others too.(...) And I will say this one very last thing as well.
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I'm pretty sure there's gonna be some people listening to the podcast, like thinking like, you know,(...) this is like, oh, it's a guy issue, or oh, no, it's a girl issue. Like, I don't,(...) truthfully, this goes both ways. It goes both ways. Both ways. And I want you to understand, like, there's also been like a very, not completely wrong, but it's like a slight misconception that, for example,(...) that people think, you know, like the false allegations against, you know, men, for example, are not as common.(...) It's currently being researched, so that information is not set in stone. It's not.(...) And it also is very limited research as well. Yeah, it's very limited. So it's currently being looked into. It's a taboo topic. Like, it's very taboo to talk about stuff like that. Yeah. So it's very limited. There's not a lot of information.(...) But at least if you do some digging, you will find out that at least currently, some people hypothesize that both men and women experience a lot of the false allegations, or when, especially when it comes to relationships, it might possibly be similar rates where the difference might be maybe from two to five percent. But their experience could be similar.(...) And like I said, this is still being currently researched. So I'm not saying this as an absolute fact, but this is stuff you need to take into consideration when you're having these conversations that this is new.(...) And, you know, we're still finding out details about it. So keep that in mind. Always do your research and just also, you know,
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do it thoroughly.(...) And yeah, that's pretty much all I have to say. Okay,(...) then I guess we'll round up and thank you for listening. And I guess we have to talk about food, right?
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Yeah, food. Why not food?
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I mean, I've eaten a lot of veggies today. So I guess I'm just gonna say I like cabbage, like(...) Chinese cabbage. I like that. Cabbage is good. I can go with some nice cabbage. I think people call it Napa cabbage as well. I don't know.
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Cabbage is good. Like the guy from Dragon Ball Z.
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Most of them are named after veggies.
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And my headphones just died. So,(...) but I think I can just go. I'm just kind of chilling kind of mood today. Something simple.(...) I think I can go for a nice grilled cheese, you know, nice buttery. Put the butter on the pan, make the sandwich, put it on, you know, let it get nice and toasty brown, golden brown, flip it. But you got to throw the butter on there first before you flip to the other side so you can get the even amount of butter. We're gonna turn the heat down a little bit because, you know, the butter's gonna be a little too warm. It might, you know, cook a little sooner than you want it to. There's a whole technique. But yeah, that's kind of that vibe today. I had a grilled cheese today, so that's funny. Either way, thank you for listening. And we'll see you guys next week.(...) Bye.