As older women and men, we have seen a lot: suffering, miracles, and so much more. "And we're not finished yet," says guest Janis Johnston, retired therapist, author, and blogger. "We can ask ourselves what is the next thing we might learn. What is meaningful? Answering questions like these helps us find creativity in our lives."
Okay, I can hear the rumbling: I'm never going to be an artist or writer or musician. I'm not creative. Janis would beg to differ. "There are so many things that we can do to be creative: edit photos you take on your cell phone or collect family recipes and try them all . . . I call these 'little C's,' and they are just as meaningful as the 'big C's.'"
Research shows that older adults who participate in creative actions have improved cognition and proprioception, enhanced meaning in their life, reduced loneliness, and recognition/engagement in a social life. Creativity makes brains bloom!
Janis also talks about creating a legacy, a gift we leave for younger people in our life. "I'm not suggesting money, but values or family histories, or a gratitude journal. As seasoned seniors (a term I like to use), we have the opportunity and the experience to share something that will last through the generations."
It Takes A Child to Raise A Parent: Stories of Evolving Child and Parent Development Midlife Maze: A Map to Recovery and Rediscovery After Loss Transforming Retirement: Rewire and Grow Your Legacy
As older women and men, we have seen a lot: suffering, miracles, and so much more. "And we're not finished yet," says guest Janis Johnston, retired therapist, author, and blogger. "We can ask ourselves what is the next thing we might learn. What is meaningful? Answering questions like these helps us find creativity in our lives."
Okay, I can hear the rumbling: I'm never going to be an artist or writer or musician. I'm not creative. Janis would beg to differ. "There are so many things that we can do to be creative: edit photos you take on your cell phone or collect family recipes and try them all . . . I call these 'little C's,' and they are just as meaningful as the 'big C's.'"
Research shows that older adults who participate in creative actions have improved cognition and proprioception, enhanced meaning in their life, reduced loneliness, and recognition/engagement in a social life. Creativity makes brains bloom!
Janis also talks about creating a legacy, a gift we leave for younger people in our life. "I'm not suggesting money, but values or family histories, or a gratitude journal. As seasoned seniors (a term I like to use), we have the opportunity and the experience to share something that will last through the generations."
It Takes A Child to Raise A Parent: Stories of Evolving Child and Parent Development Midlife Maze: A Map to Recovery and Rediscovery After Loss Transforming Retirement: Rewire and Grow Your Legacy
Speaker 1:
Hi, I'm Jane Leder, host of Older Women and Friends. You know, when it comes right down to it, I find aging to be a complex affair Highs, lows and everything in between. But as I see it, the one constant is change, and the key is how we adjust, how we transition. Do we start a new career, write that book we've had rolling around in our heads for years, move to warmer climes to be near our grandchildren, continue teaching or researching or coaching other women, or do we just hang out, travel and have a good time? The guests on Older Women and Friends have many stories to tell, to share, about what they've been up to and what they've learned along the way. So turn up the volume and join me on Older Women and Friends.
Speaker 1:
It may seem somewhat off topic that I first introduced psychologist Janice Johnston as a master gardener. Well, I'm a gardener myself and I know firsthand the requisite organization, the dedication and the imagination that it takes. Those qualities describe Janice in the garden and in her practice, where she works with families that are resolving a myriad of issues. Earlier in her career, she worked as a school psychologist and a supervising psychologist at a mental health center. I'm not sure how I found Janice, or her website or her blog, but here we are. What caught my attention was a blog post titled Creativity Enhances Aging. I have my own take on being creative as we age, but I wanted to hear from an expert. Janice, welcome to Older Women and Friends. Thank you. It's a delight to be here. As I mentioned, I've got so much that I would like to ask you I'm not sure we're going to have enough time, but let's just jump right into it. So can you tell us a little bit about your childhood?
Speaker 2:
I grew up in the country, in Indiana, my paternal grandparents had a working farm, and when I say working, I saw my grandparents work before I got up in the morning and they were still working when I went to bed. They had cows, they had horses, they had pigs, they had chickens, they had baby bunnies. I loved baby bunnies and today I'm not so fond of those bunnies hopping around in my yard eating all the hosta.
Speaker 1:
Hosta and mine go for echinacea as well.
Speaker 2:
Oh, they love them yes.
Speaker 1:
Everything I like to have in my garden is eaten by those, but that's another story.
Speaker 2:
It is indeed. It is indeed another story. It is indeed, it is indeed so. I grew up with plants and in the summer we made tomato sauce, we canned whole tomatoes, we made tomato juice and we even made our own ketchup. And I can tell you that as a child, there were times when I didn't want to pick the peas or gather all of the produce from the garden, because I knew that my friends weren't really having working summers like I was having. And now I just thank my parents for their values and for their love of nature and sustainable practices. Ecology I just really have a whole nother. Take on it now that I'm an adult.
Speaker 1:
So they have left, as people say, a legacy, which is characteristics and experiences and books and music. And if we have time, I'd like to talk to you about legacy, but let's zip along and something else first, and then maybe we'll get back to that. Well, you have three books and each one covers a major life stage. Books, and each one covers a major life stage. So you go from parent-child to midlife to retirement, and that's quite an amazing accomplishment. Is there one of those books that you're most proud of?
Speaker 2:
Oh, that would be like asking me am I most proud of my firstborn, my son or my daughter? I am so proud of both of my children and I am so proud of each of the books, for different reasons. Of course, there is the firstborn and that one is on parenting. The title is it Takes a Child to Raise a Parent.
Speaker 1:
Love that.
Speaker 2:
I wrote my book on parenting because in my private practice where I worked with lots of parents and their children, lots of teenagers because that tends to be an age that just confounds parents I really kept getting a question can't you recommend a good book? I've read what's out there and I tried star charts. They don't work. So I did write a book I think a pretty good book on parenting, and there are no star charts. It's a whole lot more than giving a kid a star every time they follow a rule. But the second book I would have to say is really poignant because in my practice I mostly saw people the adult part of the practice mostly saw people who were in midlife.
Speaker 2:
Midlife goes a lot longer than people give it credit for. It's actually age 35 to age 64. It's a long developmental stage and during this time there's just a lot of loss. It might be loss of a person, certainly parents. Earlier than that grandparents die. There's loss of good health, there is cancer, there's loss of a job. I can't tell you how many of my clients were fired and they had no idea, they didn't see it coming. Just lots of loss in midlife and I too experienced some loss in my own family.
Speaker 2:
So the second book is called Midlife Maze, a map to recovery and rediscovery after loss. And I am happy to say there is a happy life possible after a really significant loss. So I'm attached to Child no 2 book and then Child no 3 book. The latest is Transforming Retirement Rewire and Grow your Legacy is the second title and I'm attached to this book because I'm in semi-retirement.
Speaker 2:
I no longer have my family therapy practice. But I live in a small community and I happen to run into my former clients in the library, in the grocery aisle at Farmer's Market and it's amazing. They hug me and they tell me something that was said in a session that frankly I don't always remember those words, but the client remembers those words and then they catch me up on what has been going on in their family. So there's something really special about being a family psychologist or family therapist because you really have the whole gamut in front of you. In fact, my client base in my private practice went from age three to age 83. And so my books have done the same thing. They've, I guess, followed me along.
Speaker 1:
That's right. They've grown right along with you, and you mentioned something similar to this, but when I was reading your blog, you said we are the storytellers of our own personalities.
Speaker 2:
What do you mean by that? I think a lot of our life is about story. If you think about childhood and you asked me about my childhood I told you a story. I told you a story, very briefly, about being a young child and imagining all of those wonderful farm animals, each one more precious than the next. I just loved looking into a cow's face. Cows have beautiful eyes and a lot of people aren't that close to a cow, for example but that's a little story that tells something about a memory. I told you about 60 tomato plants. Oh, picking tomatoes, picking tomatoes, picking tomatoes and then cooking them over a hot stove when we didn't have air conditioning back in the 1950s. Well, that's a different kind of story, but fast forward.
Speaker 2:
We really have a whole collection of little stories and that makes up your personality. In fact, I referred to this in my first book as your story house, because it's like a house filled with stories and we sometimes make up stories that didn't happen exactly the way someone else would perceive it. I find sometimes, if I'm with my two brothers, I'm the middle child, so I have an older brother and I have a younger brother. I love them dearly. They're as different as night and day, but each of us have our favorite stories about growing up and they're all different. So each personality. Even though you grow up in the same household with a sibling or two, each of us takes away something that is quite unique and that becomes a really potent part of who we are becomes a really potent part of who we are and it's yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to step on you.
Speaker 1:
Go ahead, that's fine. Okay, I was just going to say that my book about siblings called Brothers and Sisters. Clearly enough, it was just amazing to me to talk to two people who were at the same place at the same time, had heard exactly the same thing, and yet when you ask them what it meant to them, how they felt about it, it was as if you're talking to two complete strangers who had absolutely nothing to do with whatever that event was. It's really startling, but it is a reminder, as you say, of how we tell stories. We tell stories to others, we tell stories to ourselves, and the way in which we put those stories together is our way of actually writing a book. Now that I think about it, and when you and I talked and I said that one of the reasons I really wanted to chat with you is about creativity and how creativity can enhance aging. So how can it?
Speaker 2:
I think creativity is hugely important. In fact, in my first book and then the next two books, I mentioned it as well. I believe that we have five basic needs. The first our thumb, that opposable thumb that is just so incredible is to stand for energy. I think if we get up in the morning and we're lacking in energy, we probably are not going to have a very creative day, or perhaps not a very happy day. So everything that goes into energy, it's your diet, it's how much sleep you get, it's the quality of your sleep, it's whether you exercise. I'm a huge fan of getting exercise. I just can't emphasize that enough.
Speaker 2:
The second, though the second this is the index finger, so I'll put my thumb down. This is a basic knee that stands for discipline. Too many of my clients had the finger pointing at this, like you did. What kind of discipline? So that's not the kind of discipline I'm talking about. If you look up the word, it really means following a good lead. We all need to have just some basic discipline, like a time to get up, a time to put yourself to sleep. These are basic pieces of discipline. And now we're getting to what you really ask about.
Speaker 2:
The third finger stands for creativity. So this is not what people think of. In fact, you've probably seen on the highway some car goes zipping past and give you the finger or somebody else's finger because they were not following the speed limit and you were going too slow in their opinion. But creativity is just a basic need. I think that we tend to look at kindergarten children as creative, and they are, because they are open-minded, they are curious, they have great imaginations. I love age five, but actually I kind of love every age.
Speaker 1:
You're just a love bug. I can see that and hear that.
Speaker 2:
But five-year-olds are creative and then schools tend not, as the years go by, tend not to focus on it as much. So just to finish out the five needs, this ring finger is to stand for belonging. That is so important. We need to belong. We are bonding kinds of creatures. And finally, the little finger. And if I'm using my hand on the keyboard here, the little finger hits the letter A, so it stands for ability. Letter A, so it stands for ability. So if we look at the five fingers, we have energy, discipline, creativity, belonging, ability. And if you're keeping track, that's the A, B, C, D, E, backward. It's just a way to remember. But you wanted to know specifically about this finger need creativity ages. But we are at a place where perhaps, having lived many seasoned, we feel like we're seasoned citizens. Most people hate that term, senior citizen, so I've changed it to seasoned citizen. We've lived a lot of seasons. We've seen a lot, We've seen suffering. We have seen miracles. I call giving birth a miracle. We have seen a lot, but we're not finished. We're really interested in what's the next thing that I might learn. I consider myself a lifelong learner. You can see one bookshelf here. I have books in every room in my house. I love reading and I love learning. It's all about trying to figure out what is meaningful at this age. Where might I have a purpose For me? I have found a purpose in writing. I'm now writing a weekly blog, Pearls of Peace, and it's different each Monday that I put it out. But that particular one that you found, the one about creativity and engagement as an older person, was based on a talk that I gave at a recent conference in San Francisco. It was for the Society on Aging and I think, if we can look at how to be creative in a little C way, sometimes people get confused because they think a big C. Oh, I have to write a book. No, not everyone is going to write a book. Oh, I have to paint. I have to become an artist. No, not everyone. I have to become an artist. No, not everyone.
Speaker 2:
I'm guessing that most of the people listening on this podcast have a cell phone and they take pictures on their cell phone. Photography is incredibly creative and now that it's so easy with this wonderful, wonderful gadget, after you take the picture, let's say you take it of a flower and there's so many blooming right now we're back to gardening and you knew we'd get there. I was praying. So let's say, you take a picture of a flower and then you decide, oh, I'd like to crop this. I would like to bring out this particular aspect of this tulip. Wow, that's being creative. That is little c creative, because no one else would have your exact perception about what's important about this tulip. Tulips have now faded, but I have beautiful yellow tree peonies in my yard and I love taking pictures of this yellow tree peony. It is so, so exquisite.
Speaker 1:
Well, what's interesting is that you don't live that far away from me, so I may be hopping over one of these days to take a look at your garden In the meantime. So you've answered one of my questions, which is there are big C's and there are little c's. There's something, as you know, trying to become a published writer, or, hey, just writing a little handwritten note to someone you really care about on a weekly basis or a monthly basis, so we don't have to go full steam ahead. But what kind of questions does a person ask of herself as she is trying to get down to herself, as she is trying to get down to, even if it's a little C? I'm thinking of oh, I don't know questions like what excites you, and I wonder if you could add a few more. How do we go about finding our creativity Good?
Speaker 2:
question, I think, to find your creativity is probably as different for each individual. They say that no two people have the same thumbprint. We all have a unique thumbprint. Zebras all have unique stripes, even though to the untrained eye, all zebras look alike. So it's very, very different person to person. But what you might ask of yourself is what holds meaning for me. I think if you want to be creative, you need passion, you need grit, and you may say grit, what the heck? But grit and it's been well researched by a psychologist, Dr Duckworth. It's kind of a long, funny name, but Angela Duckworth has found that grit is passion plus persistence. Really, to be creative, I think you want to ask yourself what has meaning, and not just meaning for today. That's one kind of meaning, but meaning that leads to some kind of purpose and that means checking in with your value system. What are your values, what seems really precious to you? And that's a whole piece of creativity. Asking yourself what is meaningful to you, Not to your partner, your kids. What is meaningful to you.
Speaker 1:
You know, the common assumption is. The saying is you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you're talking about new tricks old dog new tricks.
Speaker 2:
But you're talking about new tricks, aren't you? Absolutely, absolutely, and I hope that I don't become an old dog set in my ways. So that actually refers to people who have a fixed mindset. Another researcher, another psychologist researcher, carol Dweck, has written about two kinds of mindset A fixed mindset, where you believe that your IQ is set. You have a personality that's set in plaster. That's not a whole lot of fun. But the other kind of mindset is called a growth mindset, and this is where rewiring comes in, because if you have a growth mindset, you are rewiring all the time.
Speaker 2:
You understand that your personality is plastic, not plastered. You can change your personality Now. It may take some grit. Plastered. You can change your personality Now. It may take some grit, it may take some amount of perseverance or, as my parents' generation would say, stick-to-itiveness. You may need to work at it a while, but you can change your personality. You can become, let's say, more outgoing.
Speaker 2:
If the pandemic kept you locked up and it did keep us locked up until all of us discovered how to use Zoom, which wasn't big help. But it is possible to keep growing and that's what a growth mindset is all about. And don't get confused and think, oh, I'm fixed in this way. Well, all of us have some of each. Hopefully, all of us have a growth mindset, but we get fixed about certain things, like one topic we get fixed about is money. So you might have a fixed mindset about money, but you might have a growth mindset about new volunteer activities, making new friend networks, joining a new book club, reading a genre that maybe is not one you would have selected. So there are lots and lots of ways to rewire and it's all connected to a growth mindset, or what I prefer to call, and I'm putting these two researchers' work together, I'm just combining them. I believe to be successful at this age, it takes a growth and grit mindset. It takes both.
Speaker 1:
We don't have a lot of time, but we've mentioned or I mentioned the word legacy. I think you did as well. Well, what kind of not personality, but core values am I going to leave behind? So, for example, my son will hopefully mirror those, or the positive ones. What else is included in legacy and why is it important to even think about it right now?
Speaker 2:
Well, one reason I think we might want to consider our legacy. We have no idea how many days we have left. I'd like to think I have lots of them, but one really doesn't know. My mom lived to 99 and a half and cognitively she was pretty sharp until about 96 and a half. But I do think, if you can consider that legacy is like a gift, it's like something that you want to leave to people who are younger than you.
Speaker 2:
And, of course, as you mentioned, leaving something to your children, and not talking here about monetary legacies, I'm really talking more about psychological legacies. So leaving your values to your children, that's a wonderful legacy in terms of my book on transforming retirement and there were so many people who were retired or had cut their job in half, so they only work part-time hours, but they were still holding on to that career identity which can be tough to give up. So many people who were working on a legacy. They were writing their memoir, not to be published, but their memoir of what they had learned so far for their grandchildren. That's a kind of legacy keeping a gratitude journal of three things you're grateful for every night before you go to sleep and then leaving those gratitude journals for those who come after you to read. Oh wow, this is what my grandmother was grateful for. Well, I'm grateful for that, but I don't generally think that way. That would be a legacy of gratitude.
Speaker 2:
Leaving family recipes. I have some from my grandmother that I still love. I love her recipe for rice pudding. Oh, that sounds great. Something that's old-fashioned but delicious and makes me think of grandma when I make it. That was her legacy. There are just simple ways, in the same way that we talked about Big C creativity versus Little C creativity. Maybe we have Big L legacies and Little L legacies, and it's not that one is better than another. But you might pile up a whole bunch of little L legacies, things that are just really precious to you, and you leave this as a gift. It could be artwork on the wall of your home and then you give it to someone who might enjoy it. There are so many different ways of leaving your legacy, but just to bring up the topic and think about it, I think is creative. We're back to creative engagement and the research is pretty clear. To creative engagement and the research is pretty clear. People in our age, again, as seasoned citizens, people in our age are really able to live longer if they are into some kind of passion in
Speaker 2:
their life, some kind of creativity, some kind of volunteering, some kind of networking. These are the things that help people live longer. There's a whole book called the Blue Zones that talks about people all around the world who live to be 100 and over and being social, having connections, getting exercise and oh boy, you're going to love it gardening. Yay, Yay, yay, yay, yay, yay. A lot of these people are gardeners, are gardeners, and so they're out there growing food, getting exercise, getting sunshine. Today's a good day for that. I've already pulled some thistles this morning. Oh, you're ahead of me. I didn't plant those, but oh, there they were in the garden.
Speaker 1:
Well, you mentioned the word gift and the way in which we gift, not necessarily as a thing, as an object, but it can be many different things and I want to say that you've been a gift for me today. I have thoroughly enjoyed our discussion. I always say, well, I wish we had a little more time, but I really wish we had a little more time. And before we say goodbye, can you tell listeners how they can find your website, your blog and your books?
Speaker 2:
Oh sure, the books are on Amazon. They are on Barnes Noble on Amazon. They are on Barnes Noble and I'm sure that they're on other secondhand booksellers online. I would love to have people buy any one of the three. I would love to have them write reviews. I don't really have reviews on Goodreads yet, but that's a wonderful place to leave what you think what is important to you. Anyway, I'd love to get feedback Regarding the blog. It's called Pearls of Peace and you can find it. If you just go online again and make sure you spell Janice in the Janice Joplin way J-A-N-I-S and Johnston with a T, you will be able to find me. Pearls of Peace, janice Johnston. You will also be able to find my website with my name.
Speaker 1:
Again, thank you very much. You're extremely a wise woman. You can't see her, but she's just full of sunshine and smiles and has such a welcoming spirit around her. I really, really appreciate you spending some time with me today.
Speaker 2:
Thank you, Jane. I'm honored to be asked. I love talking about creativity and, of course, a growth and grit mindset.
Speaker 1:
We're ready. We're mouching out with growth and grit. Okay, thank you so much. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you for joining me on this episode of Older Women and Friends. And, speaking of friends, please tell yours about this podcast and if you have any suggestions for future episodes or guests or anything else you'd like to share, go to speakpipecom. Else you'd like to share, go to speakpipecom. That's S-P-E-A-K-P-I-P-Ecom forward slash. Older women and friends. You can send me an audio message or respond to one of mine, because it is your feedback that drives this podcast. Until next time.
