In this episode of Coaching Conversations I am joined by one of ICG's consultants, Christina Ortega. Christina is an experienced instructional coach and coordinator of math and science.
I had the opportunity to work with her and several coaches last year as part of a study where we looked at a year in the life of a coach. She taught me a lot about what people were dealing with, successes and challenges, in the moment as she was coaching. It was an incredibly unique learning experience that I'm grateful for.
In this episode, Christina talks about the power of being a learner and why being a continuous learner is a critical part about being a coach. She and I revisit what it was like to be in the study last year and how it taught her about the importance of pausing and reflecting.
Tune in to hear Christina's perspective on the rewarding and gratifying work that is instructional coaching, while also embracing the scary moments and giving space to success stories.
Christina and I also touch on the following key aspects of coaching:
To learn more and join the institute, click here.
To purchase our planner, click here.
I'd love to hear your feedback about my weekly Coaching Conversations. Please consider leaving a rating or review and subscribing to our channel.
In this episode of Coaching Conversations I am joined by one of ICG's consultants, Christina Ortega. Christina is an experienced instructional coach and coordinator of math and science.
I had the opportunity to work with her and several coaches last year as part of a study where we looked at a year in the life of a coach. She taught me a lot about what people were dealing with, successes and challenges, in the moment as she was coaching. It was an incredibly unique learning experience that I'm grateful for.
In this episode, Christina talks about the power of being a learner and why being a continuous learner is a critical part about being a coach. She and I revisit what it was like to be in the study last year and how it taught her about the importance of pausing and reflecting.
Tune in to hear Christina's perspective on the rewarding and gratifying work that is instructional coaching, while also embracing the scary moments and giving space to success stories.
Christina and I also touch on the following key aspects of coaching:
To learn more and join the institute, click here.
To purchase our planner, click here.
I'd love to hear your feedback about my weekly Coaching Conversations. Please consider leaving a rating or review and subscribing to our channel.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:01
Unknown
It's okay if you don't have an answer, just listen. Just be there and listen. Because while it is uncomfortable, you're actually learning about that person. You're learning about their history, you're learning about their experiences and and then I would call my mom, well, good. my mom and say, can you believe what this teacher said to me?
00:00:25:03 - 00:00:49:22
Unknown
So that was really helpful. And it yeah, And definitely, yeah, it's taking time to process that because when you do have that, have that mindset that that, that they are resisting you, they're resisting the system and you realize and you really lean in to understand them, you find a way to meet them where they're at and how to move forward.
00:00:50:12 - 00:00:55:23
00:00:55:23 - 00:01:03:19
00:01:05:10 - 00:01:39:09
Unknown
Hi, everyone. It's ICD consultant Jessica Wise, host of the Coaching Questions on the Coaching Conversations podcast with Jim Knight. Are you interested in learning about tools and resources to build and maintain a successful instructional coaching program? If so, join our Instructional Coaching Institute designed for instructional coaches and administrators in this 16 week course led by Jim Knight. You'll learn how to establish a proven foundation for success, develop a deeper and complete understanding of the coaching process and practices, and cultivate necessary communication skills for healthy conversations.
00:01:39:11 - 00:01:49:06
Unknown
We will also explore engagement in the classroom and coaching tools and resources. Learn more by visiting Instructional Coaching Icon. I look forward to seeing you at the Institute.
00:01:49:06 - 00:02:01:05
Unknown
Kristina, it's so great to see you. I'm excited to have this conversation. I feel like we're, like, really good friends because I think I have talked to you more than my wife in the last year. I mean, you and I went back and forth.
00:02:01:07 - 00:02:21:19
Unknown
It must have been a hundred messages both ways, right on Marcopolo. And you know what? You mark their day, Christine Crouch and all of your who turn turn out to be your friends topping so much. Last year we did the study on a year in the life of a coach. And I just have to tell you, you know, people are busy.
00:02:22:00 - 00:02:43:16
Unknown
They have things going on. There are times when I was kind of overwhelmed or worn down or whatever, but you're your hosts and everybody on our there was a part of that study, but your posts always energize me. I just was I always took and our research assistant deacon who is documenting all this stuff he felt exactly the same way that we had.
00:02:43:16 - 00:03:21:05
Unknown
We were just inspired, energized, grateful for all we learned. But it was just the energy. Your enthusiasm for kids is awesome, so I'm glad we get to reconnect. We're glad we get to have this conversation. Likewise. Well, thank you. And I have to say that communication back and forth meant a lot to me because I was I was in a position where I lost my mentor and just having that time and space each day to talk the talk through the things I was going through just really gave me, you know, that moment to reflect on the things that happened, that I was some barriers.
00:03:21:05 - 00:03:44:18
Unknown
I was going through in that and that gave me space. And, and you mentioned like, that sounds like a possible setting for down the road. Yeah, in my professional learning. So I'm really thinking about that because, I mean, I experience the power of being able to connect with someone and just reflect it via video communication. And it was so easy.
00:03:44:18 - 00:04:09:06
Unknown
So just in case people aren't clear on what we're talking about, we use this app called Marcopolo. What's wonderful about that, it's it's asynchronous conversations, kind of like text messaging with video. And so sometimes Kristina would message me from outside of a school she had a couple of minutes before she had to go to a meeting, or she might be waiting for her daughter outside or something.
00:04:09:08 - 00:04:29:20
Unknown
Sometimes I'd be on a walk somewhere we never got to see on the Palatine. But anyway, we we know that wouldn't be very pleasant. I know. I was thinking we saw the same thing for me. It would be great. So we sent these little video messages back and forth and she was part of this study where we looked at a day in the life of a year in the life coach as our way to do it.
00:04:29:22 - 00:04:35:18
Unknown
So now your position is you're not an instructional coach this year. You've got a new position.
00:04:35:18 - 00:04:41:17
Unknown
you're the coordinator of elementary math and science and you're in Lancaster School District in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
00:04:41:17 - 00:05:05:02
Unknown
But last year you're a coach and you have a ton to teach us about coaching, so I'm super excited to talk with you. You're also a consultant for the instructional coaching group, and whenever you can squeeze it in, you get to go work with school districts. And I'm so grateful you're working with us on the cool thing about with the study was I get you got to hear sort of in the moment what people were dealing with.
00:05:05:02 - 00:05:22:08
Unknown
So remember, it might be they could say, this is what happened to me today. And I would hear about the successes and I would hear about the challenges. And I learned so much. And so today I just want to ask you a few questions about the study and then more broadly, things you've learned about coaching because you have so much to share.
00:05:22:08 - 00:05:41:21
Unknown
And one of the things I learned from you was about the power of being a learner. It just seemed to me like every time I talk to you, you're like, I'm looking. I'm looking at the science of reading, I'm reading, you know, visible thinking, I'm doing, you know, you're always doing some new I'm taking this course now you're doing graduate work.
00:05:41:21 - 00:05:59:14
Unknown
I mean, you've, you're it was that was part of the inspiration was seeing what kind of a learner and and I think you believe to be a learner is a critical part of being a coach. So I'd like to hear what you think about the importance of being a learning coach and just what are some things you could do to do more of that?
00:05:59:14 - 00:06:01:15
Unknown
How could you? How could you do that more?
00:06:01:15 - 00:06:36:11
Unknown
Yeah, well, I think that came from the big understanding in that to be a leader you have to be a learner. When I was a classroom teacher, I had this conception that leaders knew everything. They knew all the things. And I don't know how I came across that moment in that when you're a leader, you are actively learning, you're actively learning, so you're up to date with the research, with practices, so you can be a resource to those that you serve in, that you work with.
00:06:36:13 - 00:06:39:21
Unknown
In terms of coaching, coaching is very complex
00:06:39:21 - 00:07:03:19
Unknown
and just like teachers, coaches are also knowledge workers and that we need to learn about not just media, the content, if we're specialized in a certain content area, but we have to be almost like learners of ourselves, of our habits and learners of your system and learners of the people that you're working with.
00:07:03:19 - 00:07:23:17
Unknown
So, so so when I see that say that a coach has to be a learner, I mean, there are many layers to that. I mean, obviously like the content, if you're supporting a content area, instructional practices and just being being willing to learn from your new environment, because
00:07:23:17 - 00:07:39:14
Unknown
as we know, people are complex, systems are complex. And so making space to actively learn and read up to, to support the people or the system or the content area that you're working with is so important.
00:07:39:16 - 00:08:04:13
Unknown
So you are driven to learn, though. I mean, you were I wasn't exaggerating when I said you are almost always doing something new. Every time I would talk to you, you were learning about this, you were learning about that. And I'm wondering if you're driven to learn because by nature you're a learner or are you a driven to learn because you want to do your job really well and you know, you need to know things to do your job or is it some other thing?
00:08:04:17 - 00:08:31:17
Unknown
What do you is it one or the other, some combination? What are your thoughts? I think it's probably a combination of both. I, I obviously I obviously left school because I became a teacher and I was a classroom teacher for over 15 years before I became a coach. And now an administrator. But but just seeing how much learning can help me as a person and help me become better so I can do better in my job.
00:08:31:17 - 00:09:03:21
Unknown
And I really think that that really I catalyst like later in my teaching career, when I learned about a bit about the Haddie practices, about the high impact instruction and how to use it with blended learning, and I just never thought about how that can enhance my teaching so much. And that's where I really see that as like, as the huge pinpoint where I started diving deeper and thinking about the things that I was doing with my students and the impact.
00:09:03:21 - 00:09:23:19
Unknown
And that got me into the rabbit hole of reading more about it. And then that's how I stumbled across instructional coaching. And then and then just working on myself knowing that I need to be a better person so that I can be there and be a resource and a support to others. So I'm thinking it's maybe. Mimi how does this sound to you?
00:09:23:20 - 00:09:45:23
Unknown
As I've been listening to you and thinking about our conversations, it seems to me that you're a learner and so you get joy perhaps, or it's reinforcing for you to learn that maybe wanting to do your job really well and you're driven because you want to do what's best for kids. I've heard you talk about so much about your concern for children, but knowing that you want to do your while brings focus to your learning.
00:09:45:23 - 00:10:01:09
Unknown
You're not just learning about pottery. I mean mean. Maybe you would do that too, but you're you're really saying, okay, to do this work, I have to learn these things. So luckily enough you like to learn. But then that that that work gives you some focus. Is that fair to say? Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
00:10:01:15 - 00:10:14:23
Unknown
Yeah, like we said that. Well, good. And one of the things too you taught me was you said that being in the study taught you about the importance of taking time to pause and reflect. Could you say a little bit more about that?
00:10:14:23 - 00:10:22:15
Unknown
Yeah, just as I said before, because it is so complex, there are there are so many pieces working.
00:10:22:15 - 00:10:52:22
Unknown
You know, there are the conversations that you have with people. There are the meetings that you have. There is, you know, trying to take in like like what is happening in the current plan in your district or in your building. And you definitely need time to reflect on those conversations to kind of get to kind of to think about how you are aligning to those needs or how you're going to respond or how you're going to prepare.
00:10:52:23 - 00:11:16:15
Unknown
So I think for me, because it was so it was a lot coming with with working with people that need that time to reflect on those things. You know, there was a study that I read a few years ago in a Harvard Business Review where they said that you have to step away and come back and not always stay on course.
00:11:16:17 - 00:11:32:06
Unknown
And what I took that to say is you probably shouldn't be coaching the person every day. They need it. They need to step away a bit, can come back maybe once or twice a week would be optimal and more than that would almost get in the way of learning because people have to step back. And I felt the same way.
00:11:32:06 - 00:11:52:09
Unknown
I felt that as we have these conversation and I'm walking on the country roads in Nebraska listening to your thing, I thought, well, this is really a great chance to in between each conversation, I've got time to think through what what was happening. Another big thing that came out in those conversations with you is that it's rewarding to do this work.
00:11:52:11 - 00:11:58:19
Unknown
It's gratifying. But your phrase was there are scary moments. So tell me about that.
00:11:58:19 - 00:12:13:11
Unknown
I think this goes back to me wanting to wanting to learn and being prepared. I'm a scary moment for me was when I'm facing or when I face the pushback, the resistance, because I
00:12:13:11 - 00:12:19:01
Unknown
think being in the classroom for so long, you you have students and if your students love you, you're fantastic.
00:12:19:01 - 00:12:54:03
Unknown
But then you get to work with adults that come with the baggage of past experiences, of working with previous coaches and previous administrators and the system. And I was not prepared for that resistance. And and and I really had to step back and realize they're not resisting me as my person. They're resisting because of the system and their previous experiences and me coming to them in that in that role or in that capacity, I'm a representative of that.
00:12:54:05 - 00:13:01:21
Unknown
And so that that that was hard for me to learn and I had to learn how to have a tough skin,
00:13:01:21 - 00:13:17:21
Unknown
like when I was facing teachers that were that were telling me like, I don't need this, I don't need to. It to improve my teaching practice. I've been doing this for X amount of years and I'm realizing, okay, they're speaking to the system, not to you.
00:13:17:23 - 00:13:22:22
Unknown
And in those moments it was really important for me to learn to just,
00:13:22:22 - 00:13:47:23
Unknown
It's okay if you don't have an answer, just listen. Just be there and listen. Because while it is uncomfortable, you're actually learning about that person. You're learning about their history, you're learning about their experiences and and then I would call my mom, well, good. my mom and say, can you believe what this teacher said to me?
00:13:48:01 - 00:14:12:20
Unknown
So that was really helpful. And it yeah, And definitely, yeah, it's taking time to process that because when you do have that, have that mindset that that, that they are resisting you, they're resisting the system and you realize and you really lean in to understand them, you find a way to meet them where they're at and how to move forward.
00:14:13:10 - 00:14:32:06
Unknown
So those were some ways that I got through some of those scary moments, especially of the resistance. As a couple things you said that I really liked. I love that phrase. They're speaking to the system, not to you. And we talk about separating the role from the person. They're not upset with you. If there was another coach sitting there, they would be hearing the same thing.
00:14:32:08 - 00:14:44:21
Unknown
Yeah. And then and then what? I heard you and I'm thinking, what makes it scary is I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. Like, what do I do? I'm presented with a situation. I don't know how to deal with it, but it sounds like what I heard you say is
00:14:44:21 - 00:14:47:19
Unknown
when you don't know what to do, Listen.
00:14:47:21 - 00:15:07:19
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And something else I learned is it's okay if you don't have a solution. Right? Then in there it is 100% to say, I've heard what you said. I understand you. I need a moment to take this back and think about it. And I will come back to this with you.
00:15:07:19 - 00:15:25:07
Unknown
So allowing that person to be validated in whatever gripe that they do have, I think it's important whether whether if you agree with it or not, because there have been quite a few things that people have said to me that I'm thinking in my head, I do not agree with what they're saying right now, but I'm just going to let them speak on
00:15:25:07 - 00:15:47:18
Unknown
it and and just say thank you for that. I'm going to think on that and and we can come back to this later. So I I've learned that that is very powerful because it still acknowledges their humanity and and that gives me space to process and to know how I can still support them in a way where they are ready.
00:15:47:18 - 00:16:14:18
Unknown
Hi everyone. It's ICG consultant Jessica Wise here to talk to you about a resource inspired by instructional coaches or instructional coaches, and that's the instructional coaching planner. Are you interested in getting more organized, having resources and reflection pages catered to the needs of instructional coaches? Then check out this planner. It offers checklists monthly, weekly and daily pages forms to use in coaching.
00:16:14:18 - 00:16:34:23
Unknown
And my personal favorite questions you can ask and each stage of the impact cycle, this downloadable tool comes in two forms calendar or school year, ready to help you manage your time and coach with success. There's instructional coaching dot com. Click on resources and then store happy coaching everyone.
00:16:35:14 - 00:16:51:18
Unknown
Yeah, I say go check on chat CBT and then come back after that. That's it. I actually think that there's something to be said for that. I mean, I always think chatty, but it's like a friend of yours is a know it all that sometimes lies like you can't really trust what they sniffles And it's funny the things that it comes up with.
00:16:51:18 - 00:17:12:21
Unknown
You're like, I didn't think about that, right? I had dinner with Christian Vanderburg. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing the story, and he said, I don't really like shop it. You can't trust it. I don't think it's that great. So then I typed in, What is Christian Van Nuremburg famous for? Put it in the charge sheet, and it came up with this kind of glowing description of all the great ideas he had.
00:17:12:21 - 00:17:31:20
Unknown
It was a really good summary. And he says, Well, maybe I like it more than I think. Maybe it's not so bad after all. But he's he's I would say, open but very cautious because I think he knows, like he'll ask good questions and I'll give him it'll give him just incorrect answers. I'd like to talk more about some of the things you're learning.
00:17:31:20 - 00:18:07:22
Unknown
But I'm wondering, do you have a success story you'd like to share? I know you have tons of them, but anything that comes to mind is a success story. Okay, so there are two that always come to mind, and one kind of us speaks to the resistance again. So I remember that one of the buildings that I was working in, they as a building where we're focusing on enhancing and elevating the questioning and discussion techniques, which is part of the Danielson domain three, right.
00:18:08:02 - 00:18:37:03
Unknown
Like that was their focus. And and I was tasked to do a mini PD session about Beth Domini just to create awareness of that. So I was ready. I had a fun video from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Like you'll you'll learn to be a non example of questioning. And especially I was so ready. I was so excited because that's my jam and I was ready to talk to talk with the teachers about it.
00:18:37:05 - 00:19:00:22
Unknown
Few to match the different ratings to what they are, just to have a good conversation. I was set. Yeah, and I showed this video and I start talking about it and I don't know what happened, but it just erupted into this great fest or it was I mean, teachers were saying things like, I'm fine if I'm basic in my reading.
00:19:00:23 - 00:19:22:02
Unknown
Why do I have to elevate too, to to distinguish me? I mean, and also things such as, well, I teach this content area and this can't happen in this content area or and the one that really upset me, but I really have had to hold it together was Will I teach these kinds of kids? They can't do that.
00:19:22:02 - 00:19:50:15
Unknown
I know, I know. And I said once again, I'm going to jot your concerns down. And that's all I did. I jotted down the concerns and I had to take a deep breath and I said, Thank you so much. And I did have to talk to that administrator saying because they asked me to have this session. And I said, Well, there were some concerns that came up in actually.
00:19:50:17 - 00:20:18:16
Unknown
And so and so from that point, I realized I really have to change my shift because they definitely have this barrier that certain content areas and certain students cannot do the higher level thinking and discussion and I'm like, my goodness, I need to show that that is not true in a way that they realize it for themselves.
00:20:18:18 - 00:21:01:00
Unknown
So instead of talking about about the domain and everything like that, I said, okay, so I use the visible thinking from Project Zero, and instead of teaching them about it, I use that the next set of pads for them to experience that as learners, you know. So so one for example, like Chalk Talk, it was around the holiday season, so they did a Chalk Talk about their favorite holiday movies, their favorite cookies, and, and so and so after they had that experience, it was, so how could this work in your classroom or with your students?
00:21:01:02 - 00:21:29:10
Unknown
And and the feedback was, I could see this working with my class. I could see this. So by having them experience experiencing that higher level engagement of thinking and discussions and then thinking about how could this look in your classroom was a non-threatening way to take down that barrier. And I was so excited to see that feedback that there were they were excited and saying, Hey, this seems really easy.
00:21:29:10 - 00:21:50:12
Unknown
I could do this with my students. And later that summer I offered a session to dive deeper, to build up a toolkit of these strategies to pick like one or two that you want to use through a progression AI in your unit. And I had teachers that I did not expect to sign up and come to the session.
00:21:50:12 - 00:22:20:04
Unknown
So I saw that as as a huge, huge hurdle that I was able to help take down a barrier without them really knowing and in helping them see that it is possible and that it can be done and doesn't have to be this, this is this heavy burden last and if you try to butt heads with them or taken it personally, you wouldn't have if you were offended personally or you tried about you, it would just get go from bad to worse.
00:22:20:04 - 00:22:55:05
Unknown
But what you did is you learned. You adjusted what you did based on what you're seeing. Do you want to tell your other story, too? Sure. Another one was I took a group of teachers to a math session down at the intermediate unit here in Pennsylvania. We on our schools and districts are organized by IU's and our our IU had a session called Building the Thinking Classroom about ways to get students, you know, thinking and talking about their math.
00:22:55:07 - 00:23:27:01
Unknown
And also at the time, the district had moved to using student performance measures where teachers had to identify a challenge and come up with ways and strategies how to address that challenge. And I'm like, That sounds just like an impact cycle, but I'll get to that later. So this one teacher, she realized that she wanted to increase student talk and so I went into her classroom and I did a teacher versus student talk data collection.
00:23:27:01 - 00:23:51:22
Unknown
And to her surprise, she talked about 85% of the time. Wow. And yeah, because we as teachers, you don't realize how much we talk in the classroom and not just and even if she did ask questions, it was very low level. I want to get a lot of recall questions because I also jotted down the questions that she asked as well too.
00:23:52:00 - 00:24:23:10
Unknown
So so for her SPM, I did do a coaching cycle with her where we worked with some of the questioning prompts and the talking points and using the wait time. And after a while I went back in again and I collected her data and her talk time dropped so dramatically it was unbelievable. And she was so surprised because I created a graph so she could see that, see the data for herself.
00:24:23:11 - 00:24:43:16
Unknown
I'm like, Well, look at what you did. Look at what you were able to do with your students. And so that was just a very enlightening moment for her. And because it was for her, it was very it meant a lot to me because it was something that we were able to accomplish together. Very cool. And her seeing the data probably made a big, big difference in terms of her agency, right?
00:24:43:21 - 00:25:12:22
Unknown
Yes, absolutely. that's so cool and so cool. And that's the thing. New. Anyway, that's a it's a great example. So there's a few things you wanted to talk about that when I call on you to do this. You said, here's a few things. One of them was the idea of what role? Clarity. And so why do you think role clarity is important and what can coaches do to have role clarity with the call their colleagues They work with role.
00:25:12:22 - 00:25:39:10
Unknown
Clarity is so important because how you spend your time is going to direct your impact. So when I got into my coaching role, I mean, I came in knowing that that instruction practices has to be the cornerstone, you know, because you're there to partner with teachers to to learn about these high impact instructional practices and how they can look.
00:25:39:12 - 00:25:52:18
Unknown
Well, however, unfortunately, a lot of coach positions end up being that the default person for all the things that no one else has time to do. And so
00:25:52:18 - 00:26:23:17
Unknown
when I was new, I took your course and that's where I learned about role clarity. And thankfully, my mentor, he was like, yes, this is something very important to have that conversation with, with the principals about what should the coach do, what should the coach not do, so that I know that my time is devoted to things that that that are going to make an impact on student outcomes?
00:26:23:19 - 00:26:45:21
Unknown
Because if I was tasked with doing things such as testing other students or running around after kids that are eloping all the time, I would not be able to to build up my knowledge work so that I was prepared to to partner with other teachers and their knowledge building and learning as well too.
00:26:45:21 - 00:27:07:15
Unknown
So having that role, clarity and also alignment to the goals of the building can help create a focus of what you are, of what you and your building are working towards. So I you're going to interrupt for a sec and then we'll come back to this. But when sorry, excuse me for interrupting, but I really want to I want to I think this is such an important thing.
00:27:07:15 - 00:27:25:18
Unknown
So when you sat, did you sit down with your mentor and say, let's talk about the things I'm supposed to do and what percentage of my time was it a more general conversation, or how did it all play out? So what I did was I printed the role clarity form that was from definitive guide to Instruction. Definitive Guide.
00:27:25:21 - 00:27:51:18
Unknown
I'm thinking, wait, was it high impact? Yeah. And I said to them, I sent it to them. I said, Hey, before our first meeting, here's a real clarity form because it was very simple. I had a list of tasks and they had to check, I'm not the coach or or yes, the coach and I filled out mine and that was part of our meeting at the beginning of the year just to have clarity on.
00:27:51:18 - 00:28:11:22
Unknown
Okay, so what would you like me to focus on? And that was very powerful and seeing that a lot of that, a lot of their things for the urge to do align with with with what I thought. So that helped set the precedent of what I am focusing on for the year.
00:28:11:22 - 00:28:25:10
Unknown
sounds like the form gave you a way to have that discussion. But without that kind of form where you list off all the rules would have been a harder to have the conversation. So that's at the heart of it. Yeah, absolutely. That that that that really helped.
00:28:25:12 - 00:28:56:13
Unknown
And at the time I did not have the pie chart to fill it in the percentages but, but, but just having that but just having the checklists of what to do and what not to do was powerful enough and what I was what I did to take it a step further, I created a Google form with those tasks that we agreed that I should be focusing on to help track the coaching tasks that I was doing each week.
00:28:56:15 - 00:28:57:15
Unknown
And that would be
00:28:57:15 - 00:29:25:18
Unknown
part of my weekly conversation with the principals to say, Hey, this is what I've been working on this week, This is how my time has been, you know, allotted. Are we so in aligned with this? Is there is there any adjustment that you see as needed? And so it really gave that focus for me because I really think that we as coaches, we we love to help people.
00:29:25:20 - 00:29:37:04
Unknown
We, we we are drawn to being the hero and helping. And and while that is noble and beautiful, it can take us off track to what the goal is.
00:29:37:04 - 00:29:45:19
Unknown
Now, one of the things I'm really excited to talk to you about is this idea of aligning what the coach does with the goals of the school or the goals of the district.
00:29:45:19 - 00:30:11:08
Unknown
And I feel like that's a challenge because if we totally focus on the school goal and the teacher isn't really 100% excited about those goals and the teacher is not that motivated and if we totally focus on the motivation of the teacher, then sometimes the school goal can get forgotten. And I've tended to go for Let's just get the teachers fired up.
00:30:11:08 - 00:30:30:09
Unknown
However we do it, and who cares about school goal? But you're feeling is. But I've, I'm changing my mind. I realize. Yeah, I've learned. I'm learning too. But but you're you're feeling is the coach has to accomplish both have a motivated teacher who's also how do you go about doing that What's your magic there. Well I thought about that.
00:30:30:09 - 00:30:30:14
Unknown
And
00:30:30:14 - 00:31:08:02
Unknown
sometimes there are things that teachers are worried about that are also a precursor to addressing the school goal. For example, classroom management. Let's just say a school has a goal of increasing math outcomes by way of, of, of using high impact practices in in math instruction. If that math instruction cannot happen because the classroom management's not there, then there's no point in focusing on that math goal.
00:31:08:04 - 00:31:34:07
Unknown
So so I I'm not I'm not giving a definite answer because I think you need to evaluate, you know, because you need to evaluate like what what the teachers talking about, what they need. And sometimes what that teacher needs is that precursor of what has to happen in their classroom to start focusing on what the building goal is.
00:31:35:02 - 00:31:35:20
Unknown
And
00:31:35:20 - 00:31:59:19
Unknown
usually when there is a school goal, like in a school improvement plan or in a comprehensive plan, there are usually like other action steps that isn't just on the teacher by themselves. Like maybe like as a school, we're going to learn about X, Y, Z, or as a district, we're going to do X, Y, Z. So that teacher still getting exposed and working towards that goal with the whole group.
00:32:00:00 - 00:32:21:21
Unknown
But if they have specific needs in their classroom that need to be addressed for them to even start working on that goal, I think that is very important and I think I think it helps take the lift off the teacher knowing that there's someone there to support them so they can overcome those issues that they are having in their classroom.
00:32:21:21 - 00:32:40:10
Unknown
So I've been working a lot with Brian Goodwin. I call him the new Bob Marzano. He's the director of Morale that Bob Marzano used to be the director of, and he's written a book called The New Classroom Instruction That Works. What Evidence Says About Effective Instruction? And I've worked a lot with Carol Tomlinson, who's developed a differentiated instruction.
00:32:40:10 - 00:33:02:00
Unknown
I've really just been fortunate, extremely fortunate to learn from them and board both of them what they've been teaching me is you can have a school wide goal and so you could say, it's my goal that we want to use these 14 strategies from from Goodwin's new classroom instruction that works. So we want to have the five elements of differentiated instruction.
00:33:02:02 - 00:33:31:02
Unknown
And then if you create kind of as an assessment for all all of those things, whatever, it's Goodwin or Tomlinson or whatever it might be, and then you have coaching aligned with that, you can sort of accomplish both. So you do the assessment to figure out where the kids are and then you look, then you pull from the 14 teaching strategies or four from classroom instruction that works and you and you say, Well, let's zone in on one that one or two that we can really can really do.
00:33:31:08 - 00:33:48:23
Unknown
So I think it's possible to have shared understanding of where we want to go in all the areas. But then, you know, maybe classroom instruction is really important for me, but it's not important for you. Your classroom runs like a top. Mine is like an old jalopy. It's about broken down. So I could use the classroom instruction help.
00:33:48:23 - 00:33:57:11
Unknown
But you wouldn't. But you could focus on some other aspect of our 14 things. So that's how I see those two kind of fit together. That makes sense. That does make sense because
00:33:57:11 - 00:34:29:16
Unknown
a lot of those high impact strategies, like, for example, like teacher clarity, that is huge and that is a big part of classroom management, you know, sort of leader of what you're expecting and, and, and what success looks like because success could be success lining up in the classroom, success with the transitions and then continuing with that conversation of the other success criteria when it comes to the academic learning outcomes.
00:34:30:03 - 00:34:47:17
Unknown
Yeah. And I think if you lay out how these high impact teaching strategies are, you look at Bryan Goodwin or Carol Tomlinson or whomever it might be, whatever their work is, you're going to be able to see something where you say that that's where I really want to, I really want to work on the fact that my kids don't seem to be committed to learning.
00:34:47:17 - 00:35:08:02
Unknown
They don't care about it at all while they're able to do a goal setting. You know, that's the way it will go. Absolutely. Now, I know how much you believe in. You're a great advocate for coaching, and the issue is that coaching only works if it's successful and it's not kind of it's going to be hard to be successful if you're not being supported by those around you.
00:35:08:07 - 00:35:27:11
Unknown
Yeah. And so one of the things I've learned from you is the importance of being an advocate for yourself as a coach. And so I got to kind of a complicated question, but could you tell us more about what it means to be an advocate? And I'm just wondering if it's kind of scary to step up and say, here's what I need.
00:35:27:13 - 00:35:58:07
Unknown
It is and and some people think that advocating means that you're shouting from the hilltops but but advocate but advocating for the role is the way that I put it can be like using your evidence and bringing it to your administrator. So for example like when that teacher did hit her goal, I shared it with the administrator saying, Hey, take a look at how the teacher talk has has diminished and the student talk has elevated.
00:35:58:12 - 00:36:39:11
Unknown
That is, advocating for your role. When you share with your teachers, like via a newsletter or what not like some of the feedback that you get from people after they worked for you that is advocating for your role, seeing the interest after after that. PD That is another way. It's so important. I kind of joked saying that there were times where I felt like I was almost in PR being a coach because you have to advertise and let people know what is going on and how it works.
00:36:39:13 - 00:37:01:05
Unknown
And that's so important. And and you have to think of it as like you're not bragging about yourself, but you're showing people how this role can be so supportive and powerful because a lot of people don't know. They don't know what coaching is. They don't know how it's going to look if they do contact you. And some people are intimidated.
00:37:01:05 - 00:37:16:00
Unknown
But when they see that, hey, this is the feedback, that it's also said, like here is what one person said in their video about working with me as a coach. it's not as bad as I thought or that's not what I thought it was. Now I'm really interested.
00:37:16:00 - 00:37:36:07
Unknown
So advocating is by showing showing the evidence of your work, whether it be in your meetings with your administrator, showing the time that you're spending and the impact of that, whether it be advocating by way of of of sharing with the schools and the district like what people are saying.
00:37:36:09 - 00:37:42:15
Unknown
Those are just some ways that how advocating for instructional coaching can work
00:37:42:15 - 00:38:14:01
Unknown
and also being open and finding ways about how that coaching role can support things that teachers need to do. For example, here in Pennsylvania, teachers have to do a a a student learning outcome, which now changed into a student student performance measure, which which once again, they have to identify a challenge that they're seeing in their class and they have to make a plan of ways to address it.
00:38:14:03 - 00:38:41:20
Unknown
And when I saw that, I'm like, that is the impact cycle. You are identifying something powerful for your kids. Then you take time to learn a strategy and then and then you work to improve it. So. So while I didn't call it the impact cycle, I called it a student performance measure cycle to show to show teachers that, hey, this is new and scary, but I can partner with you through this.
00:38:41:22 - 00:39:11:06
Unknown
So that's one another way to advocate for the role and saying that if you want me subbing in a classroom, I can. But that's going to take away from my opportunity to work with teachers toward their spms and towards the goals that you want your buildings in districts to to elevate it seems to me the thing about you is that when you would advocate, it was never about because I heard so many things.
00:39:11:06 - 00:39:36:05
Unknown
Are you telling me what was going on? It was never about, look at how great I am. It was always about what can we do here that's best for kids? And if I think if it comes that you're all about yourself, it's going to be harder for people to consume it. But if it's coming through is look at these great things these kids are doing, I want you to know this change is happening and you can tell from the person that their goal is to do what's best for kids.
00:39:36:05 - 00:40:03:03
Unknown
Then it's really then I want more of that. Tell me more. Exactly. That's what I think. That's what I think came through in our conversation. So I have one last little question and let me maybe two questions. A couple questions, but okay. First one is, are there is there a couple coaching questions, tips, forms, tools, activities, things you could share that you think any coach could benefit from using?
00:40:03:05 - 00:40:27:12
Unknown
One big one is it is okay to build in time for yourself in your schedule? I will never forget my first day of school as an instructional coach. I was there, you know, to help get the students to to their classrooms. And then after they went into their classrooms, I'm thinking, my goodness, what am I supposed to do now?
00:40:27:12 - 00:40:53:03
Unknown
Because for years I was a classroom teacher. So and so for a while, I almost I went through almost some guilt feeling like, my goodness, I'm not running around busy like the teachers are right now. And that that was a big learning for me in that saying being busy is not running around, but giving yourself time and space to read and to learn so that you're equipped and ready that it's okay.
00:40:53:03 - 00:41:26:11
Unknown
It is okay to carve out days in your schedule for you to learn. That was huge for me. It it was huge to learn that and it was huge and very helpful. When I did do that, I was very intentional and in blocking off about maybe about an hour or two every Monday and every Friday, like that was my time to listen to a podcast, to work on a radical learners course, to read a book about something.
00:41:26:11 - 00:41:54:19
Unknown
Because I if you don't manage your time, other people in other things will manage it for you. So that that definitely huge for me to learn that another big thing is to network with other coaches because most times you're the only person in your building or even in your district that is in that role and nobody truly understands what you're going through.
00:41:54:21 - 00:42:27:13
Unknown
So find a way to connect with other coaches. Our intermediate unit has a coaching collaborative where where I would go down and meet with them. I think it was not sure if it was every month or if it was every other month, but it was it was an opportunity for me to meet and network with other coaches in the region to see what they're working on to talk about or barriers and challenges and help problem solve with each other.
00:42:27:15 - 00:42:58:18
Unknown
If you don't have an IQ or something like that joining, I mean, the the internet is amazing. Joining a Facebook group, the instructional coaching Facebook group especially. Yeah, shameless plug they're right. That's right. Yeah. And yes, just just just find your people. Find your people that can be there to support you through that and also be you. Be yourself.
00:42:58:20 - 00:43:30:22
Unknown
I know that I, I struggled. Okay? I'm now a coach. I'm like, just be your human self. Because when people see that you are complex and human just like they are, it just it just it disarms people, you know, seeing that you're also at you, you're also learning you make mistakes just as they do. That is very powerful and just be yourself, you know, and how sign learning and getting to know people and
00:43:30:22 - 00:43:32:14
Unknown
the relationships are powerful.
00:43:32:18 - 00:43:55:10
Unknown
I'll never forget when I first started my role, I wanted to jump in and get started and my mentor said, Your first year is building the relationships. LS And I'm so glad that you told me that because you think that you think that you're going to go in and charge to change the world, and that's actually hurting you when you do that.
00:43:55:12 - 00:44:09:00
Unknown
So taking time to get to know the people, getting to know the system because when you have that knowledge, you know how to navigate your way through as a coach.
00:44:09:00 - 00:44:19:13
Unknown
One thing and one way to build that community. You're talking about finding your peeps, as you said, is the Teaching Learning Coaching conference and you're going to be presenting a TLC.
00:44:19:13 - 00:44:26:23
Unknown
So tell me a bit about what you're going to present at TLC. Well, first, I am so excited. And I have to say, too,
00:44:26:23 - 00:44:38:06
Unknown
I came to my first U.S. conference last year and if I'm and I'm speaking to the audience, if you've never been to a TLC conference, you will meet the nicest, most enthusiastic people about education you will ever meet.
00:44:38:11 - 00:44:45:16
Unknown
Instructional coaches, I think have the biggest hearts. They are so kind and so passionate. You will meet incredible people.
00:44:45:16 - 00:44:57:20
Unknown
Also, I will be doing a session on the impact cycle. Great. And I will be talking about the complexities of helping about how we want to go and help people when we go in.
00:44:57:20 - 00:45:22:14
Unknown
Think we can go in and try and help people, that actually creates a barrier. So it's so important to understand you know, the partnership principles, you know, and knowing how how, how to move in a way that shows and helps people feel that you are truly a partner with them. And in that session, I'm also planning on talking about the key components of the impact cycle.
00:45:22:16 - 00:45:55:15
Unknown
This session is only an hour, so. So I can't dive very deep. It it's it's a nice appetizer for for for you to sample pieces of it and then I'm definitely planning on building in time or the participants to think about what they learn and see where they want to go deep next in their coaching practice. Or if you're an administrator, you know where you want to adjust the things that that your coach is doing, because I think that's very important that take to do that.
00:45:55:17 - 00:46:20:21
Unknown
Well, I would say if you don't know that if you're coming to TLC and you don't know the the impact cycle, that's a must see thing. It's one of the arguably, you could make the case it's the most important part of the instructional coaching is the coaching cycle. We think it's an it is universal model for change. You could make the partnership sensibles you could say that too, but it's certainly a foundational component of what it's what coaches do.
00:46:21:00 - 00:46:27:12
Unknown
It's just do. Yeah, now anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up?
00:46:27:12 - 00:46:54:08
Unknown
man, I just want to say that that instructional coaching is, is the most challenging and rewarding aspects of the education world enrolls. I am so glad that I had the honor. I call it an honor because it was because you go into a teachers and students sacred space and you're invited there.
00:46:54:08 - 00:47:12:20
Unknown
And that is so sacred and so powerful. And you have a chance to see teachers and students learn from the work that you do with them. It is complex, it is challenging. So sometimes you have to go slow to go fast
00:47:12:20 - 00:47:14:02
Unknown
with that.
00:47:14:02 - 00:47:30:13
Unknown
I also wanted to add that I think that you said this too, that coaching is is truly like one of the best has the potential of being one of the one of the best PD opportunities that a district can offer to teachers when it's done well.
00:47:30:15 - 00:47:55:10
Unknown
So so if you do have a coaching program, I think you need to definitely examine how is that program doing? How is that aligning to the student outcomes? Are you using that coach role to its optimal levels or do you need to reshift a few things? And that's actually kind of the work that I'm doing now, where I'm at now.
00:47:55:10 - 00:48:18:21
Unknown
And I'm so excited that while I am an administrator, I'm still part of the coaching and I think it's really helped me as an administrator because I'm still a coach, I still walk in and in my coaching character when I do work with teachers and even with my fellow administrators
00:48:18:21 - 00:48:36:16
Unknown
wise, I want to say thank you. I'm so grateful that I learn from you so much that a project we did last year when I was hearing from you all the time, it was kind of fun to get back on Marco Polo this week just to sort of take this podcast and great what I learned and I consider you a friend.
00:48:36:16 - 00:48:49:15
Unknown
I'm so grateful for our our many conversations and the chance to learn. And you're a force for good. I'm grateful for all you do for kids. So thank you so much. Cristina. Thank you. It was an honor.