HSDF THE PODCAST

Part 1 of 2: Looking Back, Looking Forward: A Conversation with Former Deputy CIO Beth Cappello

• Homeland Security & Defense Forum

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Welcome to “HSDF THE PODCAST,” a collection of policy discussions on government technology and homeland security brought to you by the Homeland Security and Defense Forum. 

In this first of a two-part series, Beth Cappello, Former Deputy Chief Information Officer, Department of Homeland Security, reflects on her thirty-year career in public service.

Featuring: 

  • Beth Cappello, Former Deputy Chief Information Officer, Department of Homeland Security 
  •  Luke McCormack, Former Chief Information Officer, Department of Homeland Security

This discussion took place at the HSDF’s 4th Annual Women in Homeland Security Celebration on March 22nd, 2024. 

Follow HSDF THE PODCAST and never miss latest insider talk on government technology, innovation, and security. Visit the HSDF YouTube channel to view hours of insightful policy discussion. For more information about the Homeland Security & Defense Forum (HSDF), visit hsdf.org.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to HSDF the Podcast, a collection of policy discussions on government technology and homeland security brought to you by the Homeland Security and Defense Forum. In this first of a two-part series, beth Capello, former Deputy Chief Information Officer, department of Homeland Security, reflects on her 30-year career in public service. Featuring Beth Capello, former Deputy Chief Information Officer, department of Homeland Security. Luke McCormick, former Chief Information Officer, department of Homeland Security. This discussion took place at the HSDF's fourth annual Women in Homeland Security celebration on March 22nd 2024.

Speaker 2:

Well, you finally did it 30 plus years of federal service in a variety of roles, and we're going to talk a little bit about the past. Well, quite a bit about the past. A little bit of ground to cover there, and then we'll talk about the past. Well, quite a bit about the past, a little bit of ground to cover there, and then we'll talk about the future, and we will allow some time for questions and answers. And I'm asking Beth to bring us down memory lane where she started her. I guess we'll call it federal career, right, and Maureen's federal.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think so. I think that's fair.

Speaker 2:

And then what we're going to do there, rather than just sort of tick all that off and that would take damn near 30 minutes in its own right but to kind of interject in there and talk about. You know, what was that experience like? What did you learn from that? What did you take away from that? What did you experience like? What did you learn from that, what did you take away from that? What did you leave behind that kind of thing? So let's start from the beginning. Marine Corps what was it 1980?

Speaker 3:

That's the hard part about this stuff and talking about the past, you're reminded of just exactly how old you really are. So a lot of folks have heard me talk about the Marine Corps over the years because obviously, once a Marine, always a Marine. So there's that. But frankly, I would not have had the career nor the life that I've had without the Marine Corps. I started college young. I was 16 when I graduated from high school and failed miserably Second semester. I quit, didn't tell my father. That went over really well, not. A couple months later I realized that I really needed to get my act together because I'm the oldest of four kids. It wasn't like there was a lot of money rolling around for me to just play. So, unbeknownst to my parents, I went down to the recruiting station at lunchtime, during a break from work, and enlisted in the Marine Corps, and 11 days later I was in Parris Island, south Carolina.

Speaker 2:

Now, as a short note, Just out of curiosity, where were you working when you took that break?

Speaker 3:

So I was working for Nutrisystem Weight Loss Centers, I was selling weight loss programs and I was working at a men's big and tall shop.

Speaker 2:

Nice.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, after I had dropped out of college. Actually, nutrisystem as a salesperson paid pretty well, given especially how young I was.

Speaker 2:

And then poof, you're in Paris Island.

Speaker 3:

Poof, I'm in Paris. Well, short note on that, my father was a Vietnam veteran and when I told him I needed to talk to him because I enlisted in the Marine Corps and not told anybody, he went and told everybody at work that I was getting married. So it was a bit of a shock and um, but it really. It really cemented some things about our relationship because it gave him an opportunity to talk to me about the experiences that he had had in Vietnam in a way that he had not been able to do um with previous, previously with family members, but that's just a side note. Um, it was another added benefit of the Marine Corps for me. So I ended up in Parris Island, you know, is it different?

Speaker 2:

Yes, um, I mean, let's face it, you're what? 20 years old? No, no, I was 18, 18 years old in the eighties, yeah, female female Marine Corps. I mean that's hardcore, right what?

Speaker 3:

was that like I didn't know that?

Speaker 2:

though, okay.

Speaker 3:

No, seriously. I mean, when I went down, I had done the Azab and all that in high school because I was going to try to get a ROTC scholarship and I was too young for that and so I was mad at the Air Force. My father had been in the Army so I assumed, when I went to the recruiting office that I was going to enlist in the army. I I didn't know anything else. Um, I had an uncle was in the Marine Corps. Uh, you know that my grandfather had served in the army. Yeah, everybody was army. So I figured I'll go down and I'll see the army guy.

Speaker 3:

Well, he was out to lunch. This is this true? This is all a true story. I'm on a limited time. You know, I've got like 30 minutes at my lunch break and because I had already taken the asvab, the recruiting station could get my scores. This marine gunny got a hold of me so I'm female right hadn't been arrested. I was reasonably physically fit because I had been a lifeguard and I had a decent ASVAB score. He thought he hit the lottery and I'm telling you, he did not let me out until I had a signed contract and 11 days later I was at Paris Island.

Speaker 3:

This happened like this. So you know, when we're going through the book of what you sign your contract for, of course they're pointing me towards all the administrative jobs. Because I'm a female, it's the 80s, we're not allowed in combat roles. Well, you can't do that. You can't do that, you can't do that. Would you please stop telling me what I can't do. You have rules, but don't tell me I can't do it. So we set a really good relationship right for the there.

Speaker 3:

Anyway, they put me in computer science. My father had worked with computers from the 60s on, and so there you have it, and I thought I'm going to hate this because I hated programming in high school. But it was better than being, you know, admin or a truck driver. Those were sort of the options available to me. So I get to Parris Island. It is exactly what you think it would be. It's not fun, it's physically challenging. The worst part is the isolation. You're not allowed to talk to anybody. Your communication is by mail, which is really weird if you think about our hyper-connected world. Now. You don't see a newspaper, you don't hear the radio. You're completely isolated from the rest of the world. But I got to say I'm a Marine at the end of it.

Speaker 2:

What did you learn from that experience?

Speaker 3:

You can do anything you decide to do. What did you learn from that experience? You can do anything you decide to do. My father was pretty clear when I was going down. He was like keep your mouth shut, which, for those of you who've met me before, can you imagine at 18? I didn't know any better, I really didn't. And my father said keep your mouth shut, do what you're told, you'll be fine. And when you think you can't do it, you can do it, you'll be fine. And honestly, that played over and over and over and over and over again in my mind, and so, anyway, so confidence is high.

Speaker 2:

You leave the Marine Corps, join the reserves. If I recall, you're an instructor at Quantico.

Speaker 3:

Computer sciences School Yep.

Speaker 2:

Join a little old contracting company and end up at US Customs.

Speaker 3:

Yep Met this guy Luke.

Speaker 2:

McCormick. We both worked there. You end up in the operations center for a hot moment and then ended up over in field support and you're out there dealing with directly with the operators.

Speaker 3:

So I was actually in the network operations center and at the time we were IBM machines and the deployment team needed some folks, needed some help and so and I was also teaching IBM's SDLC to the Marine Corps and so I got to go on a field trip out to Southern California and actually go to field sites and install controllers and green machines. And I got back from that trip and I said this is the greatest job in the entire world Because everything you do when you're in deployment is making directly making the operator's life better. You're giving them more technology, you're giving them newer technology, you're fixing things that are broken, you're teaching them how to use the technology I mean again, mainframes and green machines, but still, something's better than nothing. And um, and I came back off that trip and and uh, I I went to mic. I said please can I come work for you, permanently Transferred into deployment, and to this day I've done that job twice.

Speaker 3:

I did it for that point and then went to California. When I came back I did it again. It is the very best job I've ever had in my career because it has a direct impact on the mission operators and you can see it, you can feel it. You walk away. They're not mad at you, they're. You know you've made their life.

Speaker 1:

It's different from a help desk Right.

Speaker 3:

They're very happy to see you. Plus, you get to be right there where the mission is going on. And it was just. It was the best.

Speaker 2:

So you end up making your way actually out into the field and working in the field. You moved to California. What was all that about? How did that go? What did you take away from that? Words of wisdom for the folks here. We've got folks that are at all different levels of their careers. Give us some pearls of wisdom If you get a chance to go work in the field.

Speaker 3:

if you're a headquarters person and you get a chance to go work in the field, do it immediately. Don't pass up that opportunity, even if it's temporary for a little while. You know there's all, at least with with DHS, there are always opportunities during crisis situations. I would suggest go when it's not a crisis as well and see what it's about on a day-to-day basis, because I think we all come together really well when it's a crisis situation, but there's a whole lot of other work that needs, things that need to get done and could be better and can be optimized and could be fixed If we had some folks out there during sort of normal op tempo and understand sort of the normal day-to-day operations and ways that you can help, ways that you can provide support and guidance.

Speaker 3:

I can't say enough about go to the field if you get the chance. But also, by the same token, if you're out in the field, come do your time at headquarters. It's not at least the folks that I know that like being close to the mission. It's not high on their list of things they want to do, but you bring something to the headquarters entity that is desperately needed and that's a feeling and an understanding and the voice of what's going on out in the fields.

Speaker 2:

So what was that like sort of entering on duty out in the field? Here comes this young whippersnapper from headquarters out into the field. Environment, a lot of agents, a lot of operators, mostly men out there. Here comes Beth, you know, large and in charge. What was that like? What was that experience like?

Speaker 3:

I mean, look, I'm coming out of the Marine Corps. So in terms of the male-female ratios I don't know if anybody knows anything about the Marine Corps about 14% of the Marine Corps at the top end is female. On a good day it's 14%. Most of the time it's less than that. So in terms of working in a male-dominated environment, that was felt normal to me. I will say, as a side note, I'm disappointed that we're not better now. That was 1992 when I went out to the field. We're not better today than we were in 1992 in terms of ratios.

Speaker 3:

One thing I found when I got out the place I went to work out in the field the first time was called terminal Island, california, and so there's a federal building where we worked and a prison, so the awesome place to be. Um, like, please, god, don't let there be an earthquake and me, the bridge collapse and me get trapped on this Island Cause it's not going to go well. Um, but what was really interesting is at the time I think you probably remember this, luke there were only there were like two people up in Chicago working on an AS-400. There was a couple of people and contractors at the San Diego law enforcement sort of place down in the valley. But bottom line is there weren't people in the field providing direct technology support. It was very centralized headquarters and they would go out to the field and provide support. Well, you can imagine people having to travel out to the field. That interval, that time distance between when somebody comes out and then the next time they can come out, it can be pretty, pretty long, pretty protracted. So my getting out to terminal Island they were thrilled to have me there I actually had. I'll never forget this. I had a guy come up to me in the lunchroom one day and said can I buy you a pair of roller skates, cause I think you need them because you know you're just running around. Everybody needs help.

Speaker 3:

And I worked for field operations in Legacy US Customs. So you had the agents upstairs with Legacy Office of Investigations and then the field office, so that's LAX and the ports of entry and those kinds of things. But then the agents, the investigators, were upstairs and they were two separate offices and I worked for field operations but they would loan me out to the Office of Investigations. I was sharing with you the Mizuno money laundering case, right. So I got to do really cool things like they've got this big money laundering case and no technology.

Speaker 3:

And there was this new technology called local area networking with file servers and everything, and they asked me to go out to Las Vegas and stand up a network server so that they could process the documents for this money laundering. It was an enormous money laundering case at the time and there was a tremendous amount of documentation. Of course, all that has to go to the defendants and back and forth. And so I got got to when I say directly supporting the mission, like literally you get to go out and be part of uh, providing hands-on technology to support their case. Um, and then you and I went on a search warrant once yeah, what quite a journey.

Speaker 2:

We won't get into that one. Uh, so why? Why? Why leave the field? It sounds like the the dream dream job. Why come back to good old headquarters where it's all stuffy and bureaucratic?

Speaker 3:

so the first time I came back um, I came back because my then husband got out of the marine corps and we came back to virginia to be to family and I went back to deployment I went back to doing the deployment work. So to me, even though I was leaving the field, I wasn't really leaving the field because I was going right back to traveling all over the place and I was just getting to go more places and at this point in your career.

Speaker 2:

Are you thinking, hey, I can see myself being the head of deployment someday, or what are you thinking, do you remember? Are you thinking, hey, I can see myself being the head of deployment someday. Or what are you thinking, Do you remember? Are you just doing the job and enabling the operators?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So I did the Y2K stuff and at the time my boss was she was starting to talk about retirement and I thought, wow, it would be really, that would be a really cool job to have. She's got like this, this fantastic job, and, um, and then I ended up pregnant and I'm with my first child and um, I thought, okay, well, I'll do this thing where you go on maternity leave and then you come back. And so I did. I went on maternity leave and three months into maternity leave I said I nope, not, can't go back to work. And so I didn't and I resigned and, um, that was really, uh, a difficult decision to come to from a career standpoint.

Speaker 3:

I was, um, you know, I wasn't very young, I I was sort of had had matured in my career a little bit and, and the reality was that position was probably uh, in the cards for me, uh, the, the being the division chief there, uh, over deployment, um, but uh, anybody who has family understands sometimes that is far more important. And I just uh, couldn't, couldn't see going back to work. And so I didn't and I ended up moving. We moved back to California, um, and when I was pregnant, and then, not too long after that, I was pregnant with my second child and nine 11 happened and that changed, changed everything. Changed everything about how I thought about what my family was going to look like and what I thought my career was going to look like, cause I had not planned on going back to work for some time, if at all. And in 10 minutes, the whole universe shifted.

Speaker 2:

And then what? You're back in headquarters.

Speaker 3:

No, I went back to work at Otay Mesa. I called up I was in Southern California, right outside the back gate of Camp Hamilton, which is very near near where I worked previously, and I called up the IT lead down there and I said I need to come back to work. This is nuts. And so I went back to work at Otay Mesa. I took like two grades down non-supervisory on the ground, as a land admin. I just said I need to be back here supporting the mission and then there was a position that opened up for a branch chief that I could apply for because I had status in the grade and I guess I ended up on a list and somebody called me and said hey, we'd like you to come back to headquarters. Somebody, somebody. You should leave Southern California and come back to Virginia. And so, and so I did.

Speaker 1:

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