This Is What It’s Like to Be a History Teacher Right Now… According to Actual Teachers

So far this season, you've heard how much more multicultural history needs to be included into curriculums, and the fight people in the education system are facing from conservatives to advance their political agendas. It is no coincidence that this fight is coming at a time the education system is seeing changes. But we have just seen what the media has shown us. How has the education system been changing in the last decade? And how are teachers including multicultural history into lessons today?  In this episode, two educators who are dedicated to implementing social justice into their lessons share their experiences of what teaching history actually looks like in the current political climate and ways of the world. Continue your education at the resource list: https://linktr.ee/episode5resources and follow us on social media: 
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Transcript

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, obviously for the last 500 years, white men have been in control. Mm-hmm.. And so those are the people who were the big movers and shakers. Um, those are gonna be the lessons, but also that's who's also created the curriculum. Of course. Welcome to Reconsider Everything, a podcast that dives into the impact of how American history is and isn't taught in the us. The lack of multicultural history taught in schools has been brought up more and more the past few years in mainstream conversations. What have you ever thought about what that means for those whose history has not been told or celebrated for centuries this season, every week, you'll hear stories from people of various backgrounds who answer that question and gain insight from those working in education. I'm your host, Marissa Niel, and this is just the beginning of what I call the American History Project. Hopefully, you'll learn a lot of new history that will make you reconsider everything you know and the empathy you have for the people around you. If you've listened this far into the season, you probably have a grasp on how much more multicultural history needs to be included into curriculums and why. You've also heard about the fight people in the education system are facing from conservatives to advance their political agendas. It is no coincidence that this fight is coming at a time the education system is seeing changes, but we have just seen what the media has shown us. How has the education system been changing in the last decade and how are teachers including multicultural history into lessons today? There is no simple answer. School curriculums, teachers and classroom environment changes by the state, city, and school district that you're in. And it is not only the responsibility of minorities to explain that or fight that fight. I spoke to two educators in Ohio, one just starting their teaching career, and one who has been teaching for about 18 years. Samantha Nichol graduated from Kent State University in May. She's also my little sister. We spoke a month after her graduation about how her college implemented social justice into teaching strategies and her first impression of what that looks like in the real world. BOLO is the mentor teacher she was placed with during her student teaching program, who has been implementing social justice into his lesson since he first started teaching. He has a longstanding view of how the education system has changed and what it is facing right now. Obviously for the last 500 years, white men have been in control. Mm-hmm., and so those are the people who were the big movers and shakers. Um, those are gonna be the lessons, but also. That's who's also created the curriculum, of course. Right. And it, it's like a self-fulfilling, it's just kind of like, it's not even necessarily purposeful. Mm-hmm.. And maybe it is, but it's not it. That's how it happens. It's like why corporate boards end up having rich white men, because who do you choose to be the next board member, but people you already know And so, yeah. Education has been that way. Uh, teaching history has been that way. And what I find more interesting is the personal story. The individual story. Yeah. And so, yeah, I try to teach the lessons of the individual people like us. Like I'm like, Hey, here's what people like you would've been doing. Mm-hmm.. Um, but also very specifically the marginalized groups, which is basically everybody other than rich white men. Right, exactly. Yeah. um, generally speaking and trying to promote the lost histories or the underrepresented histories, um, probably 10 to 15 years I've noticed that. A big increase in that. Mm-hmm.. And I think that goes with the internet. It also goes with like people having cell phones and being able to record the way certain people are, are treated. Yeah. Um, and I, I think it's all kind of coming together at the same time, which is also a reason why you're having an increase in, um, White, uh, terrorism, uh, against people because extreme white extremists or white supremacists are freaking out because they are starting to lose ground physically. Right. Florida is taking a step back, I think Georgia, a few states of past laws to regress the gains we're making. Um, and I think most history teachers and people in education prefer the reality rather than the patriotism, the blind, you know, I guess like, um, jingoism. Um, and so I think, I think that's important. Mm-hmm.. Um, and it's just we need, we. We need to figure out a way to get more people like Sam to, uh, get into the business. Yeah, but it's hard because it's, it's not easy. It's, it's, it's become unfun a lot of times. I feel, I don't know if she mentioned me at all, but I feel bad about how my attitude was pretty negative last semester. She did not mention that, but she's only said good things. Good, negative. Good. Cause I was like, oh my god, Sam, I'm getting outta this business. And she was like, oh, thanks for the inspiration, . I feel like, yeah, I got that in college too. A lot of people were like, oh, see how long it takes you to quit ? Um, and these people who are that upset are convinced that. Their particular, the very basic level of historical knowledge is accurate. And that's it. Um, when Florida passed, the, don't say gay law is what's been called mm-hmm., uh, that's when I decided, okay, kids we're gonna watch milk because Ohio has the same law for the listeners. Milk's a movie about Harvey Milk, who was the first open, the gay, uh, politician elected to a, a public office and it was San Francisco. Uh, and it also, the law, and that's in Ohio's legislature that's trying to be, it's a bill that's trying to become a law. I don't think it'll work, but says that I can't teach the 1619 project, which is just, it's a, all it is is a historical argument. Like you don't have to agree with that argument. Yeah. But it's not inaccurate. Mm-hmm., it's true. It just happens to be a particular perception of the way you can look at history. Right. Debates have grown more heated amongst politicians, teachers, parents, and education reformers, which has brought up an analysis of the actual definition of social justice and education. There's a heightened media attention on this right now, but that makes me question is social justice and education even new? What has been going on in education before this? An article published by the American Educational Research Association says it's not. In the 19th century, whiteness was a diversified category with Western and northern European immigrants at the top of the racial hierarchy and southern and eastern European immigrants a notch below. By the 20th century, however, whiteness became an abstraction of the American citizenry in which all persons from Europe were able to enjoy white privilege as long as they forfeited the culture and language of their countries of origin. They directly affected the educational opportunities of various groups, and there is a long history in America of how that has shifted, including different schools being created like the Indian boarding schools. We covered in the indigenous history episode. Let's take a look at the Brown Verse Board of Education, Supreme Court case of 1954, which you probably learned about in school. The court decision that ruled separating children in public schools on the basis of race as unconstitutional. The Research Association article says conventional scholars portrayed that as the beginning of the Black Freedom Movement, thereby giving credit to the federal government for igniting the struggle. But revision is positioned that decision as a broader and longer freedom struggle that did not begin in 1954. The article says the conventional framing of that historical event makes the federal government appear as a friend of the aggrieved parties and the United States as a mecca of opportunity. While the revisionist vantage point represents political pressure, not moral persuasion, American institutions have always played important roles in the creation and maintenance of racism. So how can we expect to get an accurate depiction of America when we are learning about it in the same place? The article also states that policy makers have a tendency to martial historical perspectives to fortify their own positions. And that historians have a role to play in the contemporary debate over the definition of social justice and education. Some academic articles on how educators have explored ways of implementing social justice into teaching date back to 2010, one published by the City, university of New York said the phrase social justice had increased rapidly around that time as an umbrella term for encompassing practices and perspectives. But notions of social justice and history education have actually been in existence for hundreds of years. So what does social justice and teacher education look like? Now? I teach a class history through film. Mm-hmm.. And one of the, my main goals for that is to teach the history of the marginalized people. Mm-hmm., can you explain more why you think like film is a good way to teach that? Um, I think that emotion is really important in caring about what you're learning. Um, and film of course can is, is terrific at that. It's, it's reenactments of what happened and sometimes I'm not even that concerned about how accurate the story is. I'll let the kids know like, this isn't necessarily an accurate story, but Right. This is a example of the experience that people live. Mm-hmm.. Yeah. That was my next question was if, yeah, you make a point to say, well, this might not be displayed as accurately. Cause obviously in Hollywood it's not gonna be totally accurate. Yeah. But it's all about getting the emotions going. Mm-hmm., there's a saying that. it. All teachers need to have the saying in mind is that the kids don't care, um, about what you have to say until they know they care, you care about them. Mm-hmm., and also they don't remember what you said. They remember how you made 'em feel. Mm-hmm.. And that's for like, the relationship part of education. But it should also probably be a big part of the learning part because if you make'em feel, then they might remember it. And, um, the other thing with, with using movies is, Everybody today, including us, especially kids, are entertained 24 hours a day. Mm-hmm. by pictures and sound, and so we have to try to meet 'em where they're at. Yeah. Which I think movies are a good way to do that. Do you ever run into any issues where maybe someone dealing with trauma that's portrayed in a film that kind of triggers that for them? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I've had a student, um, leave during 12 years of Slave, specifically. Um, I was incredibly nervous approaching that topic, as a white man approach. Have you seen the movie 12 Years of Slave? Mm-hmm.. I mean, it's, it's insane that I'm showing this to these high school kids and all the parents sign like permission forms. Okay. Yeah. But, and then also, um, so another marginalized group is, you know, LGBTQ community. So I show the movie Milk about Harvey Milk. Mm-hmm., um, you know, these topics do cause emotion, whether it's religious or racial or, you know, violent trauma. Like a lot of kids are dealing with their own violent, uh, pasts. Um, and then so yeah, that it is. And, but you know what if, if kids are getting emotional. and are asking to leave the class as a result, then I think we're doing something right because it should be powerful. I remember I watched milk when I was in college and I was like, I remember, I know that these things have happened, but they sa whenever you learn about something in history, you think it happened so long ago. So I think actually just seeing visually, like being able to see like what they were wearing and putting into perspective, okay, that wasn't really that long ago when that these things really happened, I think is really important. Yeah, and the other thing is that I think film helps you understand is that. We haven't changed, our surroundings have changed. Mm-hmm., like humans have been the same for Yeah. Thousands of years. Mm-hmm.. And, um, I think it's hard for students to wrap their, probably people generally to wrap their heads around the idea that the person who lived in 1800 had the same like fears and wants and desires mm-hmm. and all those basic things Yeah. That you have today. It's just a different surrounding. Right. And I think film does a good job of, of making that real. And one of my purposes with teaching history, uh, when I started I wanted to make, um, people, students, uh, develop a sense of empathy for the stranger. Yeah. Like people that'll never meet mm-hmm.. And I think if you learn about the history of people then, and you can develop that empathy for people who. Lived in the past, then, then you can transition that to empathy for the people who you don't meet are on the street today. Right. And then, which is even more important probably, is that we have empathy for people to come in the future. I remember history tests were like, what year did this happen? Like, what was this named like? I don't remember any of that, but kind of, it's like if I hear like a human perspective of something, like, that's what I'm going to remember. Yeah. I, I think testing's getting a little bit better. Hmm. Um, at least with the AP stuff it is. Mm-hmm., um, they're doing a lot less of when did this occur? Uh, what is this? Yeah. And doing more of, um, analysis of history mm-hmm. and making an argument. Yeah., uh, which I think is more important, and I'm trying to bring that into my lower level classes to where mm-hmm., it's instead of like in history through film, I never ask them, Hey, what happened at this point in time? Yeah. I say, what do you think about this? That happened? Right. This is a big movement right now is making kids use critical thinking skills. Mm-hmm. more so than just memorizing. That's a big movement that's occurring right now. And I think generally we're getting better at that. Mm-hmm., it's just, it's a tough transition, right? Like, I, I do sympathize with teachers who are veteran, who have been trained to teach a very particular way of regurgitation and more to, uh, you know, thinking about history rather than just regurgitating it. So why do you think that type of information is more like limited to AP courses than just the introducting or introductory courses? I don't know. I think that's a problem. I think it should be more in the introductory courses. I think it should be from elementary school on. Mm-hmm., one of the problems is it's hard to be that teacher. Like, it requires like a skillset and Gotcha. And it's not like we're going out of our way as a nation or a state or a community to recruit the wisest people. Like if you're really good at that kind of thing, you probably become a lawyer. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or, or a business owner of some sort, or a journalist, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. Like, we're not going out of our way to recruit. Mm-hmm., I, I probably shouldn't have been able to become a teacher when I was 24. I don't, I didn't have the chops for what you really needed to do. Mm-hmm.. I didn't have the effort, the motivation, um, , I was able to do it. Mm-hmm., because there wasn't that much competition. Yeah. Where I at least went and got a job. Um, so I know you said that it's improving as far as like what's being taught in history classes. Do you feel like you're supported by the education system as far as curriculum? Or do you feel like there's kind of almost a burden on teachers to do that work, to do that research? Um, I think that doing the research, I don't know. I don't, I've never really noticed if there was like, I liked doing the research, you know, like actually that's probably one of my favorite, other than the relationship with students, one of my favorite parts of the job is doing the research. Mm-hmm.. Um, so I don't know, like if there's like a burden, I think teachers should, should want to do that. Right. You should, you, you know, well the textbooks are getting better, you know, and um, yeah. Whatever the subject is. Yeah. Which is another reason why. It's really important what your school district is like. Yeah. Uh, our school district is great and that they give me freedom. Obviously, they let me create history through film. Nobody said, Hey, what are you showing? Why are you showing it? They just trust me. Yeah. It's terrific. Not all of your school district would be like that. I looked into the education program Sam graduated from at Ken State University in Ohio when she mentioned her education courses were often anchored in social justice issues. Their social studies education program website states that they prepare prospective teachers to prepare citizens who will then continue to contribute to the deepening of democracy and promote the common good, which is the point of learning history. Right. Well, my first thought is someone can only be a citizen who can contribute to the deepening of democracy if they know the correct history of everyone who is part of that democracy. And Ken State addresses that. Their website states that they have a commitment to diversity to increase the quality of education. The program developed a new course called Topics in Social Justice in Teaching and Learning in which students consider topics such as race, poverty, social, class, L G B T Q, youth and colleagues, socially responsive teaching and youth placed at risk as they intersect with K through 12 educational settings. Education classes were pointed towards social justice, so we also learned about like how to have like just, it was a conversation about social studies, education. Mm-hmm. and the problems that we have with it and the trends as in like how it used to be taught a traditional way that's called. It's not what we say, like the traditional way of teaching and how they get around that. And then now that's being attacked. So how to kind of get around that and how to teach controversial issues, which is a really good lesson that they taught because it is hard to, it's like we were talking about, talking about issues in class with students that it definitely could be triggering and mm-hmm. um, trying to, knowing how to like, teach that and talk about that properly. Mm-hmm. and then education and Democratic Society was another class, but it's been, all of my class were centered on like social justice mm-hmm. and issues and changing and like they all say to step away from the textbook, which sounds great, but then when I got into teaching, I was like, there's no ti It's, it's difficult cuz you have to plan everything. Yeah. So without the textbook you are, you would have to do all your own research and.. So basically find resources and like when the textbook, I would use a textbook as the backing. Yeah. And then I would find my own to add in. But like in college it was all the ideals, but it wasn't the realities of how it would be teaching, changing history curriculum. Mm-hmm., I think it's great and it just needs to be, I guess it probably just needs to be more time to figure out what this means. I really like the teacher I was placed with. Um, and they're focused on social justice issues and incorporating like, stories of marginalized groups into history. So that's what I wanted to do. So I was happy I could like learn from that. Mm-hmm.. Um, so is that something you already wanted to do, like going into student teaching? Like at what point did you feel like you wanted to introduce social justice issues and history? I always thought that it was definitely, I, when I was in high school, I feel like when I wanted to teach high school, I was like a government class and we were talking about, we had to pick like an issue and talk about it. And I really loved doing that and you know, getting to voice my opinion and then hearing others, and then also hearing that other people don't agree. Mm-hmm., it was just like, you know, and so you're like, what? Yeah. You don't agree with me? And then getting into college and learning that I don't know a lot of things. Like I was very ignorant and I was like, I mm-hmm. am going in to teach social studies and I don't know any of this stuff. I think the one was, it is a small thing, but we, my teacher played us cartoons from like our childhood and like movies and they had very racist depictions and stereotypes of the characters all the time though. And we, we analyzed it and went through it and I was like, oh my god. Even like this stuff that we're around and I had no idea. And then like, it's literally just learning all your brain new things. Yeah. What you think is okay. Cause it's on TV and I learn a lot from my students. Cause I do always remember that I am, the school I was at is very diverse. Mm-hmm.. Um, and so remembering my position, and like who I am. So as a white woman teaching, I want to know and I wanna teach it. Right? So I want to address those issues and other groups, but I also need to approach it like I need to know everything myself and do my own research. Yeah. When you say right, what do you mean by right? Like what's the right way to teach the right way of teaching? Of histories of all cultures and like, not just issues, but like successes and making sure each student feels like they're part of the lesson. Because if you're just teaching about history from one per, like a European per perspective, then like students aren't gonna like, they're not learning their history. Like that's like very unfortunate that a lot of students have to sit through their classes. Yeah. And not feel any connection to what they're learning. Cause it's not about them at all. When I first began my research on this topic years ago, I watched the revision. A documentary on the Texas State Board of Education's attempt to revise the content of textbooks used for teaching to align with their conservative beliefs. In 2009, one scene shows an amendment to share instances of institutional racism in American society voted against by the majority of the board. One highly debated attempt in the documentary was to direct students to discuss the insufficiencies of evolution. Despite the evidence actual scientists provided in the school board meetings, language was added to Texas science standards that scientists say is included in creationist arguments that challenges evolution. That language was later voted to be removed from high school biology standards in 2017 because it seemed too difficult for students to evaluate. By the way, that challenge to evolution in the documentary was led by the State Board of Education chairman at the time, who was a dentist, Sunday school teacher, and a young earth creationist. There are five qualifications to serve on the Texas State Board of Education. Members may not hold other public office candidates must have lived in their district for at least one year, must be registered to vote in their district, be at least 26 years old and registered lobbyists representing interest relevant to the board. Members may not serve on the board. No critical thinking skills in relation to education is required yet teachers must teach according to what they vote on. You may be thinking, well, that was just in Texas, right? Actually, no. When Texas rewrites their textbooks based on these votes, Publishers craft their standard textbooks based on the nation's biggest textbook buyers, and that includes Texas, Florida, and California. Texas is one of the few textbook markets where the state decides what books schools can buy rather than leaving it up to local districts. So when publishers get their books approved, they profit millions of dollars. In 2017, the textbook market was valued at seven to 8 million. The options have improved in the past decade. States have been provided more options outside of adopting the big state's. Textbooks and technology companies have disrupted the market. However, that doesn't mean that we've seen a huge impact yet. As of this year, 19 states and Washington DC advise textbooks at the state agency level while the rest leave that decision to local school districts and the state boards in Florida and Texas still reject dozens of submitted textbooks. This is a perfect example of how we are seeing a push for change in education and resistance all at the same time. Red summer of 1919. I think it, it, most textbooks talk about all these massacres of black communities and black people in these lynchings during that summer as riots. Mm-hmm.. Well, it's not a riot, they just murdered a bunch of people. Mm-hmm. who defended themselves and Oh, because they fought back. It's a riot. Mm-hmm.. So like little language like that. Yeah. Um, I think is affected by where a textbook is created and Texas is like one of the more ridiculous, I mean, I'm not talking obviously about all Texans are, it's a massive state with lots of diversity and it is ridiculous what they're trying to, to push. Mm-hmm.. And it does happen. I mean, most textbooks are written by like historian, like history professors. Yeah. Like, and AP books are better.. Which is weird because the same people who are writing AP textbooks, cause these, these people are here, they're great. Like they're brilliant. Yeah. But sometimes something that's in here is omitted in the lower level stuff. Interesting. All of the history is going to be how did Europe affect the rest of the world? But um, I think it's also important to teach the perspective of the people, of the people who were being affected by the Europeans. And so it makes sense, but I think it's very important to not ignore the other histories. Yeah. Like for most people, when they're doing world history, African history starts when European showed up. I went on eBay and found a map of Europe. It took two months for it to come to my house. I think it was in fact from like Ukraine or something, um, of year of Africa prior to European invasion. Mm-hmm.. And I have it in my classroom and it shows the different tribes and kingdoms. And I think it's very important that before I start teaching about imperialism, I teach about the rich cultures and civilizations of Africa prior to them having European contact. Uh, that's the kind of thing that's definitely left out. Yeah. Um, and, and largely ignored. And again, I understand cuz you know, we can only expect so much out of each person. And even with the best intentions, I'm still a white man whose ancestors are European. Mm-hmm.. So it's probably why I keep going back to Europe with my students. Yeah. And instead of going to Asia Yeah. Or Latin. It. Yeah. Um, but we gotta make an effort to try to include these other groups and their perspectives and, and sometimes just be quiet and, and listen to what those histories have to tell us. Mm-hmm. and a lot of the times, maps, things like that are what cause us to have these implicit biases. Right. Words really matter. Mm-hmm. and I, and that's another thing I hope that my students learn is that how you describe or label something is really, really important. Mm-hmm.. Um, do you have any other examples of maybe language that would be in a textbook or how history is typically talked about that you think maybe isn't so accurate or should be have a different tone to it? Oh, I think we're, one thing that stands out is I think that we should be more open about the genocide of Native Americans that created this country. We should be more open and, and use more, use the act like it, we should probably be picking the most extreme words to describe. slavery in America and what most of those people went through. There's no actual word to describe what those people went through, but we, we water it down cuz we're afraid of hurting people's feelings. Mm. And we're afraid of like, making people upset. Mm-hmm. or uncomfortable be upset, be uncomfortable. It should be, but that's what they're legislating now. Yeah. You can't teach history that makes people feel uncomfortable. Yeah. Then you teach any history. If you're upset by that, then that's a problem.. Yeah. I mean, George Orwell wrote in 1984 that he, who he who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past. And that's what we're fighting right now is making sure that we can continue to teach the reality of the past. Not what white supremacists want us to believe. Right. Which is who has been writing the history since the beginning. Mm-hmm. for 500 years. Yeah. Literally. Um, it's, we're just coming to grips with this now, which is why it's a fight. Mm-hmm. and it's going to be a fight. For probably the rest of my life. Yeah. And, and and beyond, I dunno, white supremacy one show. Yeah. I think more white people need to be introduced to the idea of whitewash because I would say, I mean, I would guess that people who aren't white obvi are just aware of it because they're, but I think when you grew up white and it's not talked about, it just, you're, you're really, it, it's kind of always benefiting you, you so once know Yeah. Once you're good , right? Because you're always seeing yourself and you're always being represented. And so, I don't know. I think, yeah, like when I first, I think it, it was like getting the concept that, oh, like there's like white historians who like wrote these textbooks mm-hmm. and are focusing on white history pretty much in America. Like I, that then I kind of started to realize like, oh, okay, there's like so many different things that I don't know, and just understanding what whitewashing was really and how it kind of, . Like these people want, they're historians, they're professionals, they wanna do a good job, but they are informed by what they were able to access, which they were able to access because somebody allowed it to happen. Right? Like right now, the, the president in the us so there's like ranking of US presidents, right? Mm-hmm.. And that changes. Why is that change? Well, because people get better understandings of what somebody did and what they represented. So right now, the person who's going up the most in the rankings is U S C S S grant as far as presidents go, because of what he did for civil rights. Mm-hmm. He fought against his own party to try to help free black people. Mm-hmm. And um, we are now, right now, historians and I, not a historian, so I just listen to them and read what they say are coming to grips with a new understanding of the reconstruction years. 1865 to 1876. Um, . And that's interesting for, I think most people wouldn't realize that, oh, we're now understanding it differently. Mm-hmm., wait, wait a minute. Isn't it already happened? We know what happened. Yeah. But there's so many details of, of what exactly happened and why it happened and which narratives were presented. And so it starts to change. And so you have to reconsider all historical moments over and over and over again and try to continue to increase your understanding. You have to kinda unlearn how you learned everything really. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's really important for people to understand that. You know, I sometimes I'll tell people I'm a history teacher. Oh, that must be easy. Cuz that doesn't change. Oh, no, no. It changes all the time. History's constantly changing. Mm-hmm. like, because you have to reconsider new information. Right. Um, we only just got the Ulysses s papers. Mm-hmm. like all his papers. They started organizing him in like the eighties or seventies and then they just finished in 2006. So, . Now we're learning new stuff. Yeah. And so history is a little more com complicated than I think most people are relying. Yeah. In my conversation with Sam, she brought up an interesting point similar to Mike's in the last episode about why the topics teachers are becoming restricted to talk about are so important in discussing with students and how discussions and debates on current events allow them to become more empathetic of each other, allowing them to understand history better. And there was one topic we could not avoid discussing. Roe v. Wade was overturned four hours before we started our interview. My friend texted me in a panic about the importance of getting an I U D as quickly as possible. I had been shutting out the news, knowing I was going into a work obligation and hadn't had time to process what all of this means. Then it started to settle in. People are still recovering from covid. They've lost their jobs, their homes, and are struggling to make ends meet. Everyone had an obligation they had to take care of that day, and this was just another hit to minorities. People with troubled pregnancies, people with disabilities, people who will die from illegal abortions or who cannot afford to travel to a state for a legal abortion. This is an issue like many others that touches students in a classroom everywhere in America. You know, you're just becoming a history teacher, like do you have any feelings of an extra level added of how you'll have to deal with this when you have students maybe facing, having to have an abortion or something along those lines? It's very sad and it's.. It's definitely something that we're gonna have to navigate through and learning about this. If I was in school when the, and this came out and trying to hide your own emotions, cuz it does cause a lot of emotions in a lot of people. And trying to navigate your own feelings. Yeah. Also being in front of students is very hard. I feel like for teachers. I can't remember what happened, but something came out when I was teaching and all this because of technology and social media, every student knows right away. Mm-hmm.. So it's coming into the school, they're talking about it and we have to either shut conversations down or encourage them and kind of figure that out. All these students were very involved already in. social justice. Yeah. Like they would come in and they're 14 and they're coming in talking about issues that are happening. Mm-hmm.. And I was like, okay, so they want to, so let's teach 'em how to like, have debates. They love debating. Mm-hmm., they would have debates in the back of the class. So I was like, okay. So I focused a lot of my teaching. I changed it from just like what I was going to do to now debates cuz that's the ones that they remember more and giving them a place to debate it. But then that also comes with like experience of knowing how to control a classroom. Yeah. And a lot of these issues, especially in government class, um, a lot of these issues do like or can or do personally affect the students and others. Students, especially like younger age, they don't really., I don't know. It's hard to grasp that other people could be going through something. Mm-hmm., especially related to like, you know, these amendments that have happened so long ago, it still connects to people are still mm-hmm., they're still affected by it. Um, so having the ability to kind of control the conversation mm-hmm., um, and also be aware that some students could be triggered and not wanna be a part of the conversation. Mm-hmm., um, like wars going on and students that have experienced it maybe firsthand or their parents have them giving their perspectives. I've seen other students be like, oh, okay. Like now I get now they're for against or being against something happening and then hearing about the soldiers that were forced to fight for, like the side that maybe perpetrated it. Mm-hmm. and then hearing their perspectives of is it their fault? Like, and just, they definitely opened their minds a lot more. Mm-hmm., um, when just having open discussions. Yeah. That's why I like doing that. Yeah. in class, we used to talk about how they used to do like bomb shelters and everything. Mm-hmm. and in school they had the, it was the duck and cover drill, I think. Mm-hmm. and because we were talking about the Cold War and just like the intensity of like that happening and all the students started talking about, um, well we kind of do that now with school shootings and how prevalent that is and how aware they are and it's good. But they're making that connection in history too. Yeah. And there was a, and then there was a whole conversation of what we would do in our, in the classroom if that were to happen and where they would go and having their phone on them. They're like, and someone said like, oh, mine's all the way back there. What if I need to, you know, all this stuff. So yeah, there's a lot of things that have happened just in the past six months, but like also including Covid, which obviously started like two years ago, um, that have reminded me, like when I was in school and we were learning about wars and pandemics and. Laws that affected women and different groups of people. When we learn about that stuff that happened in history, it seemed like, but that's all fixed now. Mm-hmm. and America's not like that anymore. Mm-hmm.. And so now when you make that connection, like, well wait, there's this war going on in Ukraine right now. I even just, I never thought I would see Roe v Wade be overturned. I never thought that, didn't absorb the fact that that would be possible. Like I feel like when we learned about amendments and those were changed, I didn't think, oh, well those could be changed back one day. Mm-hmm. social studies primarily includes history, geography, civics, economics, and sociology. So social studies teachers must know how to teach all of those subjects. The art of teaching those subjects also includes the elements of psychology, philosophy, anthropology, art, and literature. This is also a ground for the importance of diversity and inclusion. The Ohio State profession standards state that teachers must respect the diversity of the students they teach. Including their cultures, language, skills, and experiences. The Ohio State standards also include that students are to deepen their knowledge of diverse cultures and their role as citizens. While those intersections of subjects fall under the umbrella of that field, social studies typically receives lower funding than other subjects. Because standardized testing focuses exclusively on English and math, those scores determine a majority of the school's federal funding. This is the result of the No Child Left Behind Law, which provided more education opportunities for students in poverty, students of color students receiving special education services, and those who speak and understand limited to no English. This law held schools accountable for how kids learn and achieve partially through annual testing. While this increased time for English and math, it also decreased time allocated to social studies. This has led to a civic achievement gap that The Atlantic says has made it increasingly difficult for those who grow up in low income households to participate in civic affairs. I do think now it's like it is almost too much without enough funding. If there's more funding for more classes than they could be separated. More like world history grouped into one class is hard to get through. You can't really get through everything. So having more classes, and I mean social studies is very underfunded. Mm-hmm. like, I feel like it is. Did you learn about that in your classes? Yeah, in college. My one professor would always talk about, he's like, I just, I'm trying to like bring in all these other classes and everything. Mm-hmm. and it's just underfunded. It's not, it always seemed like it wasn't as important, which is, I mean, I may be biased because I love social studies. Mm-hmm., but it's very important. That's teaching you about the world. Yeah. And how we live in it. All of my, I mean, the last two years of college is where we really learned. educa like EDU had our education classes. And I love that I can teach all of that, but I, I wouldn't say I didn't get the training for it, but like you, no. You have to be an expert in all of it. A lot. You have to know. You do. You have to know, you have to have the content knowledge of all of those subjects. Yeah. And it's like right now studying for my licensure test is beginning of civilization to now mm-hmm. and then it's geography and then political science and IT and world history and US history and all of that. And then also it is about like combining those Yeah. So the economic systems of in history. Yeah. And other, in like other countries and everything. So I think it's great that it is, but I do think it deserves more like attention and funding. Funding to make.. Yeah. And have more like separated classes so you can dive deeper into each of these. Yeah. And make sure students fully understand it. Yeah. Which I learned from one of my professors talking about like teaching about the Holocaust and the horrible things that have happened there. And my professor would actually, and it's good to talk about that cuz you're, you're seeing what could happen And this is like, these are people, like this, people can do these things and that's what's happened. But my professor who I took a class history of the Holocaust mm-hmm in college and it's always how it's taught, the Holocaust taught is a lot point towards like the victims and showing stories of victims and the horrible things. And I think that's good to see cuz that you, you need to get like an emotional response to like get people in interested in like wanting to know how can that happen, but focusing on the perpetrators more. That's what he said that we should do that. So you can see the signs and how to look for that. Cuz teaching history and social studies is about like, connecting what's happened to now in the future. Mm-hmm.. And so, and I liked that cuz I feel like we do talk about, we talk about this happened to this group of people, it's really bad. It was horrible seeing all the tragedies. But then what's the lesson from that? Like they need to learn, like how this is how we avoid it. Mm-hmm. And that's also getting back into civics and people in, you know, cuz that was just like, and so we, we did that about the guards and what they've done. So talking about this is what they've done and this was people, regular people who turned, not all them, but turned into this and were capable of doing those things. Yeah. Because of a, a system of government. Mm-hmm.. But I, when I was student teaching, I came up on the, I was talking about Totalitarians and Hitler in the Holocaust. So you were approaching that And I asked students what they already know and they did not know, like this past semester they did not know anything in what grade they learned. This is ninth grade real history. So especially Covid, they were out for, um, , they were out of school for what, a year? Mm-hmm. the whole school year and then maybe half and yeah. Maybe they didn't absorb information. Yeah. So that kind of affected, but they had no, I, it was, it was insane to see like they had no idea about the Holocaust, you said, oh, it's something about like, something happened in Germany, like it was very brief. Mm-hmm.. And I was like, wow. Like this is mm-hmm.. And they even said, they're like, yeah, we don't know a lot of things that we would like to know about. Cuz they hear, especially being so active, they hear about everything but they don't know. You think they see it like on Twitter and stuff like that? Yeah. And stuff like that. So that, and they were so interested in it and it's just like, I was very, that's bizarre. I remember that being something I learned about a lot. I wonder if like, during Covid it's just like everyone was just trying to get through the school year. Like maybe teachers were just trying to get through what they had to teach. My students said they did not do a single thing of schoolwork for the entire year. Cuz they were at home. They were doing eighth grade at home on a computer. Not really like, , that's a, it's such an important year or two to prepare for like high school mm-hmm. and all the work that comes with it. Yeah. And obviously there for reason switch and like, it's hard, some teachers don't use that much technology, so like mm-hmm. having to all of a sudden switch it over and keeping track of all the students and making sure they're doing everything. And even being on Zoom and having to like account for all the students in the class is difficult. Yeah. Kids went from seventh grade to ninth grade and they weren't socializing. They were in their rooms. Um, and I thought for sure that when they came, when kids came back, that parents would be over the moon in support of teachers because they just realized how hard it is to teach. Mm-hmm., um, unfortunately some parents did not become, Supportive. Like suddenly, and I get sick, I'm getting sick and tired of, uh, receiving horrible emails or having bad conversations with parents. I don't know if it's, that's probably partly my age. I'm just getting tired of parents. Most parents are awesome, but if one of 'em treats you like trash for me and I'm kind of an emotional guy, like it hurts, you know? It sucks. Mm-hmm., I don't like it. Yeah. And you can't tell 'em what you think. Mm-hmm., you can't respond. It's not Twitter, you know, . I can't just like snap back, you know? Yeah. He's like, oh, okay. And I'm sorry that you feel that way , and it gets annoying and you're like, oh my God. I think I'm a little more valuable to society than I'm being treated and being compensated. And I think it's time for us to step up and, and as a society and treat teachers like the parents that they are. Yeah. And that was hard realization. And so next year we're gonna have the same thing because those kids lost, uh, a very significant year. Did they miss seventh grade? You know, and I don't know how long it'll take for us to get back to where we need to be, but if we're smart, then we're gonna realize that, uh, how important public education is and how important public teachers are, and start using that, uh, in a better way to support mm-hmm. support the teachers in the schools. In the annual Merrimack College teacher surveyed of K through 12 educators this year, 51% of teachers said their salary is not fair for the work they do. The typical teacher works 54 hours per week, and 25 of those hours are actually spent teaching students outside of the classroom. Teachers must grade papers and plan lessons among other things. And after adjusting to teaching their students online during a pandemic, responding to parent complaints, when students return to school and experiencing a pandemic themselves, teachers' salaries have continued to decrease. The National Education Association released new data in April that teachers are actually bringing home an average of over $2,100 less per year than they did a decade ago when ingested for inflation. And now we are seeing a teacher shortage happen across the country. So I was gonna ask like if there are changes in what's being taught, where you usually see that come from? So do you ever feel like maybe there's like parents who have a kind of a say if they're complaining about something or something that the community cares about? Like where do those changes come? I, I haven't had an ex much experience with parents trying to push one thing or another, but I know that that happens for sure. Um, I know that the parents of my students who are from marginalized groups, I've gotten good feedback that they're like, oh, thanks for teaching this. This is, it's nice we're not used to this. Um, because a lot of students who have parents that care about what they're learning, just take it upon themselves. Mm-hmm. to teach their kids. Cuz I mean, it's, it's hard to like try to tell a school or a teacher what to do as far as lessons, you know. So when it comes to US history specifically, um, whether you had an impression of this, like when you were going through high school or just being a history teacher, what would you say is like the most. I guess, repeated topics that are taught and like what you think stands out that should be included in curriculum. That usually isn't, it's like the main, the main events. Mm-hmm., you know, um, I think one thing that, that stood out for a while, and I don't know if this is still the same, was the Cold War was always huge and what most teachers end up having to try to figure out is what topics are most covered on the standardized tests. Mm-hmm.. Um, and so the Cold War was always a huge one. Um, because that, you know, def I, I would imagine the reason for that is because it defined much of our world today. Mm-hmm.. Um, I personally think that what I'm doing in history through film is, is just as important as these major events. And it's when they're talking about the major events, they're talking about the successes and they kind of have like, what was the negative part as well. Yeah. Kind of like trails along, but I think it's equally as important.. So what was the, what was the child's life like in the industrial age? Mm-hmm. and, and, and it's in the book. It's, it's briefly in the curriculum, but I think it's a little more important than we actually give it credit to. Mm-hmm., like I was just watching, um, who we are on Netflix. It's a documentary about, uh, history of Black America and it covered the Tulsa massacre. Mm. Tulsa, Oklahoma, um, Greenwood neighborhood, um, in 1921. And I had never heard about that until three years ago, three and a half years ago when I was doing research for my class history through film, and I had never heard of it. Mm-hmm.. And I looked in my book, I was like, what? Let me, let me look in the ap u s history book. And it's like, it's in there as a sentence. Why is that not told? It's like one of the biggest stories in US history. I think a lot of people are introduced to that now on social media. If there's like police brutality, protests, then people will start posting that type of history. So the fact that I've learned more from people posting about topics online and I'm like, well wait, let me look into that than in school, I think says a lot. That's a great point. And that's, that's what I'm like, I, it's, I shouldn't be learning new as a veteran teacher, right. With a history major. Mm-hmm., I should not be learning new major events Yeah. In US history, but I do. Yeah. Um, Francis Scott Key, who wrote the national Anthem Star Spinel banner, there's a segment of it that talks about owning slaves that they took out. Mm-hmm., his poem talked about that he owned slaves. Mm-hmm.. I didn't know that until like two days ago. Yeah. No, it's weird that I don't know. I'm learning that now that you're telling me . Yeah. Do you ever feel a certain type of pressure as a white man teaching different history to students or maybe kind of like a pressure to get it right when you're teaching it? Yeah. Like it's, I get very nervous. I did so much research before the first semester of history through film. Cause I know I wanted to show 12 years a slave. And I knew that that was a pretty big risk. And, and I didn't know how, I mean, I, I definitely wanted all of the white kids to see it. Mm-hmm., but I'm like, this is also gonna traumatize the black kids. Right. Like, um, and so my approach to that is, the first thing I say in that class is like, look, you didn't do this. You don't need to feel guilty. Um, and if you're white, you don't need to feel guilty about this. You didn't do it. Uh, if you're black, you don't need to feel ashamed., you know, because this is how your ancestors were treated. But we have been given this reality and it is our obligation to address it. So we're gonna address it. You can tell your parents, you know, you can drop the class. I'll have the debate, but it, it's, I get like, I get like really nervous every time I have to cover those topics. Yeah. Uh, I'm getting better, you know, now that I've gotten good feedback mm-hmm. trying to show, um, really white kids like, Hey, this, this is all real, this has all happened. You don't need to feel bad about it. Um, but you should probably know about it. Mm-hmm. and know that it, it's helped define who we are in our world today and how our institutions function. And I think it's important for the teacher to say, I'm just creaking to open the door like this much. Mm-hmm. like, this is high school. Yeah. We can't get too deep into it. We gotta keep moving. But just so you know, if you're fascinated or interesting in any of these stories, there's a whole world of information that you could Right. Seek mm-hmm. and now they can Yeah. Cause of the internet, like obviously I don't need to know everything about every single person, but just once I see my students asking them what they, you know, about their backgrounds and then maybe like in the beginning of the year or something, coming up with things to pull in that address, each of them to add into the stuff. Mm-hmm.. So there's like ways to go around, like, I think the curriculum and adding other things. Yeah. Um, sociocultural background and talking about homes. Like I, there's one where I talked about, um, People's like their home or like, it was something with memory and they had to count. I said, uh, make a mental imagery. Mm-hmm. and count all the windows in their house. But making sure little things like, so we were like, well, I live in an apartment so there's only one, or like mm-hmm., you know, and stuff like that. So addressing where people live. Mm-hmm.. Um, I guess there was one with a parenting, I think a parenting exercise. And that's something for psychology. You address a lot of personal issues. Yeah. And that's something that could be a trigger. And where they had to decide how to, I gave a situation and it was to test out different parenting styles. And it was a situation of like a child doing something and um, them having to discipline. And I've heard from some students, uh, in the past, like talk about like their, like parents or just one parent. So then that made me want to kind of change, I got this lesson like, or activity mm-hmm. for my teacher, but then I wanted to alter it and instead of just putting 'em in pairs of two, put them in pairs of three. So say, you know, family dynamics and then I had them answer what they would do alone. So, and then I made sure to explain like, as a, like families could be a one parent household, it could be siblings taking care of kids, it could be grandparents, a parent and a grandparent, you know, co like mm-hmm., all the, all the situations Yeah. Of a home. And then making sure to always use like their neutral language is another thing too. So like saying Gar, I always say parents are guardians and I always say like, partner and stuff like that. Mm-hmm.. And instead of, like, when I found the things like in the book, I think the activity was written there. It was like, um, like mom and dad at home, like, and not using that and just making sure to try to address every. Situation a student could be in. Cause I wanna make sure every student is involved in the lesson. Mm-hmm. like, doesn't feel like it's like separate from them. Yeah. I did this lesson on purpose to teach about like abusive relationships cuz that's very prevalent in like domestic abuse in teen life. And like teaching students, like, I wish I knew that, like about that, you know, and science and stuff like that when I was in high school. So I mentioned that and um, I mentioned like briefly my experience with like abusive relationships. Mm-hmm.. Um, and to also just say like, look like it happens and it's okay to talk about it. And then like there were students who, um, like connected with like my lesson and everything and why to talk. And it's like hard because I was talking to my coworkers and everything and they were saying like, students will come up to you and say like things they're going through that are pretty heavy and like, you take that on as a teacher, now you become like a therapist and now you're taking on like. the things they're going through. And it's horrible cuz you see these students and you want them to just be happy and amazing and like things happen in their lives. Yeah. That's so sad. And you have this connection with so many students in this like positive relationship and it takes like a toll. I just feel like it's a lot that goes into teaching that isn't mm-hmm. recognized and then now having so doing that and then like, there are so many times where like the only adult in some people's lives are like their teachers. Yeah. And then like now to do all that and then for, I mean, I would be, I didn't need to, I literally did double the time of my field experience because I like liked being there. I wanted like put in so much and I put money in and all this stuff just during my like student teaching experience and to do all that. And then have your like field now be attacked. Yeah. And like your integrity be attacked because you wanna teach. for all your students and it really sucks that that's like all those things are being introduced and especially, it's probably by people who don't really understand too. I understand what teaching was like until I did it. The part of social studies that I love is that you teach the students how to get that information. Mm-hmm.. So even if you can't provide all the information, we're teaching them how to go and get it and where to find it and how to like, how, just the skills Yeah. To be able to, you know, I think there's always gonna be a way, I know it's, it, we talked about it with our, in our class, like how it sucks being with all of this stuff, all this targets on, like social studies, education right now, obviously there's going to be laws, if there's laws, but that's, but people are gonna find, but what that's gonna do. Yeah. Like that's, that's what's gonna do is get rid of good, responsible teachers. Like that's what, which is, but those teachers will probably stay and like I will. I was thinking about becoming a professor and like the freedom that you have as a social studies like professor and like what you can teach and how you can teach. Um, I wanted that, but then I was thinking, I got into teaching to, my goal is to, you know, teach for all students and I mean, students, like kids spend their whole like majority of their time in school, right. So like, that's who they're seeing. So I wanna create a place for them. Yeah. To be, to grow in all ways. And that means like to, like mentally and emotionally and academically, I learned all of this stuff and I didn't learn it till college. And that's what a lot of people say. So why would I now go to a place where that I needed to go to a place where, that's why I want you to be in public education mm-hmm. where it's free and to get to students and share that knowledge. Yeah. And share that knowledge where it's accessible to everyone. Mm-hmm.. And how, um, just like being able to go to college is not easy and it's disproportionate and like how., like you can get there. And I was like, I should be sharing this knowledge with mm-hmm. everyone. And that's not, you're using your privilege very well, which I think a lot of people can learn problem. That's what I hope to do. I've talked a few times on this podcast about how ethnic studies is more easily accessible at the college level, but that wasn't the case over 50 years ago. The very first black student union organized by Jimmy Garrett and Jerry Vernado and the Third World Liberation Front, which included Asian and Latinx students, carried out the longest student strike in the US at San Francisco State College to demand an ethnic studies department and the admission of more students of color. On November 6th, 1968, the two groups poured onto campus, making up around 400 students. They stayed out of class and every day more students joined. The strike ended four months later. In response, the administration agreed to accept virtually all students of color for the fall semester of 1969 and established a college of ethnic studies leading the way for similar departments around the country. This reminded me that historically the education system in America has not been the leader of what minority students need. Minority students have always had to fight for the education they deserve, and we are still seeing that today. One thing I wanted to bring up mm-hmm. was that, um, critical race theory is something I never heard of., I think it must be maybe a year ago or two years ago, whenever it became a thing. My aunt who, or no, my cousin who lives in Wisconsin, contacted me and say, Hey, what can you tell me about critical race theory? My school district is gonna vote on whether or not they're gonna outlaw it. Mm-hmm., I was like, oh, I guess I should look this up. I don't know. It sounds sounds important. Mm-hmm., I looked it up and I was like, oh, I, I never even heard of this. And I majored in history. I taught history for 15 years ish. Yeah. At that time. And um, and then I was like, okay. So I explained it to her and she's like, oh, it's not critical race theory. That's just what the people who were trying to outlaw or ban, uh, diversity training, labeled diversity training in their school district. They called it critical race theory. And critical race theory is something that is not taught in. High school or even undergrad, and it's a theory about the, uh, potential of racial bias getting into American institutions because all American institutions were created mm-hmm. during a time when white supremacy and racism was very much the law of the land. And it's just a theory for like law students. And it became, it's one of the things that people label what I'm doing, they'll call it critical race theory. Mm-hmm., if you teach black history and it's not critical race theory, we're just teaching history. Mm-hmm., I think it's important for people to be able to identify the difference. I feel like people think like something they have will be threatened if people know about all this information. It just like really blows my mind that, well, it's white fragility. Yeah. We're sensitive to the idea that we benefit from racism. Right. Of course we do. I mean, it's not really, I don't understand what that's such a big deal. Just accept that. Yeah. No, I've had, I've had, I've had some chances because of. Yeah, exactly. Here's another thing. I benefit from being white in this one. Very specific, I mean many ways mm-hmm., but here's a really specific example. I started doing this, kind of like thinking about this because after George Floyd was killed, a different friend of mine, um, was kind of blaming black communities for their poverty. Mm-hmm. in, in high crime rates. And I started think, trying to think about ways that I could explain that it's not black individual's fault, not black people's fault. Mm-hmm. That their communities are this way. My grandfather was in World War II and after World War ii he benefited from the GI Bill, which helped him go to college. He was able to pay for college. Mm-hmm., the GI Bill also helped many veterans, uh, purchase homes and businesses and go to school and get higher education. Mm-hmm., the GI bill created the notion that most people can go to college. That's where it came from. Yeah. He was able to benefit that from that because he was white. The black GIS did not get the GI bill. Mm-hmm., they didn't get the loans. They didn't get the, the loans for businesses or college and grants for college. That was kept away. Yeah. That's one example that I asked my dad. I go, did your life benefit from grandpa getting GI Bill? Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah. Therefore my life benefited me. Right. And then it becomes a generational thing, and now here I am. You know? So yeah. It's one example of how being white in the past, my ancestors', whiteness has helped me today, right. And has harmed black people today. Other people have to kind of like climb their way up just to be at an equal playing field if they're allowed. People think like, oh, everyone has the right to do this, but not really. No. Um, it also reminds me of like,, especially after George Floyd was killed. There was a lot of conversation about obviously the history of police brutality or black history and it, I kind of had this realization, and I feel like other people said this too, of like, why do white people not know what white people did? Like why do black people have to be telling white people what they have been doing to them? Mm-hmm. And so it just kind of shows this like blindness that has been passed on amongst white generations as well. And so it's good there's people and teachers like you and Sam soon to be that will, at least you, you're using like the platform that you have to change that and be like, well this calling it what it is and saying, well, white people did this because I was not learning that when I was in school. Democracy only works if we have a really good understanding of. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Reconsider Everything. If you enjoy the conversation today, subscribe for more episodes and leave a review. I'm your host, Marissa Nichol. This interview was recorded by Tim Burdock. Narration were recorded by Lounge Studios, and this episode was edited by Jake Stevens. All music was composed by Alex Joaquin and Cover Art was created by Olivia Nickel. Continue your education on our social media handles and at the resource list in the description below, and join us every Tuesday for another episode.