Do You Know How Hawaii Became a U.S. State?

Do you know how Hawaii became a U.S. state? Do you know about the overthrow of its monarchy by United States armed forces? Have you vacationed in Hawaii or plan to in the future? Americans tend to view Hawaii as "America" and travel there, disregarding its history and culture. But knowing the history of America's relationship with Hawaii and its people can change how you view the islands and Native Hawaiians today, who still face health, housing and incarceration issues as a result of colonization. This episode also invites you to learn more about how to be a respectful tourist of the islands. Continue your education at the resource list: https://linktr.ee/episode6resources and follow us on social media: 
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Transcript

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, the people that come to visit with the mentality that them visiting Hawaii is helping us, is giving us a job or putting money into our economy. And so a lot of times it comes with this, with this big sense of entitlement. Mm-hmm. that to bend the way we live or give them special access because they're doing us a favor. And I think if they were to know that Hawaii is a home with a history and a, and a culture, I think they would see us in a different light. And I, I feel like they would come. With a lot more respect. Welcome to Reconsider Everything, a podcast that dives into the impact of how American history is and isn't taught in the us. The lack of multicultural history taught in schools has been brought up more and more the past few years in mainstream conversations. What have you ever thought about what that means for those whose history has not been told or celebrated for centuries this season, every week, you will hear stories from people of various backgrounds who answer that question and gain insight from those working in education. I'm your host, Marissa Nichol, and this is just the beginning of what I call the American History Project. Hopefully, you'll learn a lot of new history that will make you reconsider everything you know and the empathy you have for the people around you. When's the last time you went to Hawaii for vacation? Are you thinking of going in the near future? In 2019, over 10 million visitors arrived in Hawaii. That tourism generated over 2 billion in state tax revenue. When tourism began to rise again after the start of the Covid 19 pandemic. Over 700,000 people traveled to Hawaii by air Service in the month of December, 2021, primarily from the United States. The first time I went to Hawaii, I was 19. I met locals and knew I should be respectful to them in their land, but I wasn't exactly sure how to do that. To be honest. I didn't know anything about the history of Hawaii. Its people or its culture. All I knew growing up is that it is America's 50th state, and nothing ever made me question why. I don't even remember learning that Hawaii became a state in 1959. That's not that long ago. That may have been told to me in school, but not in a way that was impactful enough for me to understand that Hawaii's path to becoming a state. Started with an illegal act of war and that Hawaiians are still seeking sovereignty from the US government. Today, native Hawaiians are also facing homelessness, health, schooling, and incarceration issues as a result of colonization. I wanted to end the season with the story of Hawaii because it is a representation of how we are not far removed from early American actions and how we as Americans can be so oblivious to that while we vacation inside of hotel rooms built on top of Hawaiian land and never question how we are able to do that so effortlessly. For this episode, I spoke to Davana McGregor about the history of the overthrow of Hawaii's monarchy. She is a founding member and professor of the ethnic studies department and the director of the Center for Oral History at University of Hawaii Monoa. I also spoke to Russell Sub. He's the executive producer of Hawaii. Public Radios show the conversation, which covers perspectives on life in Hawaii and issues that have not yet reached Hawaii. We got into how tourism impacts native Hawaiians and how he learned of Hawaii's history with the us. As someone who grew up there to understand the overthrow of Hawaii's government, we must look further back at the events that led up to that point. Hawaii was a nation before the formation of the United States. The islands were organized for purposes of stewardship and cultivation. Around 1000 AD when chiefs began to occupy and consolidate them into large districts. Centuries later, district chiefs formed island councils to manage the irrigation, network production, and a stable supply of fish. Fast forward to 1778, the first documented contact for trade and commerce. Chiefs traded to accumulate guns and warships and king Kaha Meha conquered and consolidated all the islands under his rule. Hawaii had a central government for the islands by 1810, this led to a period when Hawaii engaged in trade that shipped out of New England America, great Britain, France, and Russia. Davana shared insight into the impact of this time period. We were very isolated, we're the most isolated land mass in the world, and there were no introduced diseases until trade. Mm-hmm.. And in 1804 there was a cholera pandemic emanating out of India. And our historians document that half the population died. Oh, and I, before this recent pandemic, I, I had a hard time fating that, but I can understand how that mm-hmm. was possible in that half the population died, but, uh, that affected. Even our king had the first contracted cholera, but he was able to survive it. But many of his generals, his, his key leaders did contract the disease and didn't survive. So it had a huge impact on our, on our, on Hawaii. Uh, and then also just the, the introduction of the guns and the increasing wars for the conquest. Um, a lot of our chief ruling chiefs, especially here on Oahu, were, were killed off in that rise to power and the establishment of essential government. And so, um, When the king died, when first died, the successors didn't know if they could sustain the central government, and they anticipated that they would have challenges from rival chiefs and those who, whose sons now who, whose fathers had been killed. But the sons now are ruling. And what the successors did was the abolished the religious system that established the divinity of the chiefs. And by taking away the divinity of their rivals, they now, the system of rule was based on force. Who had the strong, who had the most weapons, who had the be better military strength. And so they, they, all these changes happen in, within the first 50 years of contact, a new, a new governance system, uh, the de decimation of our population, the loss of families in some districts, whole districts. Now abandoned, um, but also the, um, abandonment of the religion. And then in 1820, the year after the abandonment, the first missionaries arrived to start to convert, first the chiefs and then the people to, to Christianity at the same time, beginning in 1820, the whaling industry operating out of Hawaii became a huge part of their economy. The trade merchants who were foreign to Hawaii became residents of the islands and demanded rights of citizenship and the ability to own private property. So this puts a lot of pressure on now, Kaha iii, the the second son of Kaha to rule. And he agrees with the advice of the missionaries and others merchant interests that if he establishes a constitutional form of governance, that the, the countries that are dealing with the Hawaii through gun votes will begin to establish more diplomatic relations, uh, on a basis of equality. And so in 1840, king, remember, the thirds adopts a constitution and Hawaii becomes a republic. And in 1842, the United States extends recognition of Hawaii as an independent country and signs a treaty of trade and commerce and, you know, on a basis of equality. And then Great Britain and France sign treaties of, in. Recognizing the independence of Hawaii in 1843 and other European countries, Belgium, Germany, and then Asia, Japan, China, all signed treaties recognizing the independence of Hawaii. And at that time, the, through that process, the constitutional monarchy eventually by 1845, allows foreigners to become naturalized citizens. In fact, many foreigners become part of the executive as cabinet members and and also very active in the legislature. Even though they make up 10% of the population, they made up like almost 30% of the legislature. And then were active as cabinet ministers. So they're also steering the government to sustain a capitalist economy. So eventually private property, which is a core, uh, need of the, uh, of capitalism now gets established eventually with the, um, establishment of a system of private land ownership. This also frees the labor service of the Hawaiians, and only about 30% of the broader population in Hawaii get land. All of the chiefs get private land, but a, a large number of native Hawaiians are dislocated from their lands, and now they have to hire themselves out to work. So the, the whole system is changing and the government now, uh, is becoming a lot influenced by the set. Community in the islands, primarily American. And their interests now turn to really developing the sugar plantations as the centerpiece of this economy. And, um, they re this, this plantation system is re reliant upon the United States for their market to be profitable. And, um, the reason why there's a boost in 1860 is that the US is engaged in the Civil War from 1861 to 65. And the the south, which supplies the Northwood, its sugar, is that war at the north. So the north is buying sugar from outside of the us. So now that Hawaii is becoming, uh, more and more dependent upon the United States, um, for its economy to be profitable, even though the bulk of the plantations. Are owned by American interests in Hawaii set American settlers in Hawaii. About 60, 62% is owned by Americans, and 25% by British, only 4% is owned by Hawaiians. And then there's about 4% by Chinese. So it really, um, and there is, um, uh, at the end of Civil War, which gave this boost to the economy, um, there's a protective trade tariff that's imposed to give the southern farmers a boost again to get back, you know, to, to recover from the war and reconstruct the south, right? So that period of reconstruction, so a lot of the plantations go bankrupt. They can't, uh, get their, their, you know, their loans are foreclosed upon and they're consolidated into the, the larger corporations that. Finance them. And so Hawaii is desperate to negotiate a free trade treaty. And in 1875, the king does, uh, negotiate a treaty where all of Hawaii sugar can be exported to the US without charging, uh, trade tax. And then all US goods can come into Hawaii without a trade tax. So it's just reciprocal in that manner. So in 1885 when the, um, the trade agreement expires, the king has seen how the wealth of Hawaii has. That has come through. The plantation system has not benefited his people. He refuses to renew the reciprocity treaty. Well, he wants to renew the reciprocity treaty, but the United States is now demanding that the Hawaii turnover full control of what is called Pearl Harbor, but we call it law. But the US is demanding full control and exclusive use of Pearl Harbor in return for renewing the reciprocity treaty. And the king refuses to seed away a portion of Hawaii because it means an erosion of the independence of our kingdom. When King Kawa refused to renew the treaty, members of a militia nicknamed the Honolulu rifles made up largely white settlers, held the king at gunpoint until he signed a new constitution for the Kingdom of Hawaii. This led to the document's nickname the Bayonet Constitution. The bayonet constitution allowed the foreign landowners to take control of the government and renew the reciprocity treaty. The king became a puppet who could not make any decision without the affirmation of his cabinet selected by foreign settlers. We hear about treaties all the time in history class, by definition, we understand those treaties to be mutual agreements between countries. We aren't given the context of when someone was held at gunpoint and had their life threatened in order for something to be signed so a treaty could be solidified. These are the missing details that completely change the perspective we have of a point in history, which I think contributes to why Americans have an understanding that Hawaii wanted to become part of the US and native Hawaiians take a lot of effort to reverse this and. He, he would've been assassinated if he hadn't signed mm-hmm. the, the new Constitution. It also excluded any Asian from the right to vote. It just specifically said Asians cannot vote, so it disenfranchised the Asians. So just in this, the bayonet constitution stated that? Yes. Okay. But the European population was enfranchised. Anyone who was a European or American dissent could vote under the Constitution by taking an oath of allegiance to the Constitution. So they were trying to shift the balance of power in the legislature in their favor away from the Native Hawaiians and the Chiefs in the, you know, the House of Nobles to, in their. When King Kawa died in 1891, his sister Queen Liani took his place. She was a gifted songwriter who composed 160 songs in her lifetime and made choices in the best interest of her people. She at first refused to sign an oath to this constitution, but had to in order to be installed as the Monarch. She told her people she would sign a new constitution as soon as possible to reinstate her power and restore voting rights to native Hawaiians. But the foreign settlers were already plotting her overthrow. They formed an annexation league and traveled to Washington DC to get the support of us. President Benjamin Harrison and President Harrison said, um, man of war to be constantly president in the islands to support the American settler interest, should they take steps to overthrow the monarchy. Queen Lilani became the target of a smear campaign in the US. Press propaganda spread gracious depictions of her and one included the queen holding pieces of paper that said scandalous government and gross immorality. In January of eighteen ninety three, one hundred and sixty two US Marines with Gatling guns positioned themselves across from the Queen's palace to intimidate her. Within 48 hours, the Annexation League announced they had become a provisional government for Hawaii led by US businessmen. Queen Lil Kalani did not want bloodshed, so she surrendered to the US government rather than the provisional government because she believed she would be reinstalled as the queen. And she believed this because in 1843 in February of 1843, great Britain had taken control of Hawaii. But then later in July 31st, 1843 reinstated the sovereignty of Hawaii. And she believed that same circumstance would occur, but she also believed that, um, it was the United States forces that really were the force, the power behind the provisional government. And so she decided to surrender to the greater power US. President Benjamin Harrison submitted a treaty of annexation to the Senate trying to get it passed before he was out of office. When Grover Cleveland became president that march, he withdrew the treaty from the Senate and sent Presidential Commissioner James to Hawaii to investigate the events that had taken place. James Blot came out with this, uh, very fair assessment of what had happened and a real indictment of the role that the US Minister played in a conspiracy with the annexation lead. Primarily of American interest to take over Hawaii, and he said that the US troops were landed in an undeclared act of war. In the United States, only Congress can declare war. Congress had not declared war. The President had not declared war, and the President doesn't have the power to declare war. Only the Congress can. So this was an illegal invasion of Hawaii by US armed Naval forces, the provisional government used their contacts in Congress with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to counter the BLO report that recommended the Queen be reinstated. The committee condoned the illegal actions claiming that American lives and property were being threatened by the queen's new constitution and that the troops were protecting American lives. But evidence shows that is not true. The troops weren't guarding Americans or their property. They were standing across from the Queen's palace. Because of this, president Cleveland was unable to reinstate the Queen. Hawaiian groups put two petitions together with more than 37,000 signatures against the annexation of Hawaii and calling for reinstatement of the Queen. Queen Liani traveled to Washington DC with delegates to deliver the petitions. A vote took place to reinstate her and failed. Sanford Dole was an American businessman whose family founded Dole Food Company. As in the Dole Food Company we see in every US grocery store. And if you've been to Hawaii, you've probably heard of Dole Plantation, which is one of Oahu's most popular visitor attractions. Dole declared himself as the president of Hawaii. Queen Lilani was held prisoner at Yoani Palace for treason. After she was released, about eight months later, she spent the rest of her life advocating for Native Hawaiian rights and culture. She sued the US government in 1909 to return 1.75 million acres of Hawaiian royal land, but was unsuccessful. She passed away eight years later, leaving all of her money to the children of Hawaii. Queen Liani is an honorable leader All Americans should learn about in history class. And while she was held prisoner by the Republic, um, in 1895, they forced her to sign an abdication. And in her book she writes, you know, here she was alone without any legal counsel, didn't know who was talking to her, just to overthrow her, you know, to, to betray her. And men being held in who were in prison. Who the government threatened to kill, but you know, to hang them as punishment for their efforts to, uh, reinstate her. And so she's saying, you know, their lives could, could be saved by signing this abdication. And so she signed the abdication to save their lives, but she did so under duress and not with full support of doing this, but mostly because she was imprisoned under threat and wanted to save the lives of her supporters. Then in the middle of the Spanish-American War, Senator Newlands introduced a joint resolution for annexation, which only requires a majority vote of both the House and the Senate. And they, they get this majority vote of both the House and the Senate. and they use this joint resolution as the basis for the annexation of Hawaii, which is not legal in international law. It's not legal. And many Hawaiian scholars are researching this and making, taking, trying to put together a case to take to United Nations or the US Court to make the case that Hawaii is still an independent nation. We were never legally annexed, but we are an occupied nation occupied by the United States, but have the right to again, be an independent government. Mm-hmm. and you mean that's happening now? Uh, yeah. There, there are several different organizations. Um, the Reinstated Kingdom, um, the Hawaii Nation state. There's several different organizations seeking to have Hawaii be recognized as an independent. Government again. Um, the other route for that independence is when the UN United Nations formed. They set up a committee on decolonization in 1946, and they listed all of the non self-governing nations and peoples, and Hawaii was listed on that, um, with that committee. And the goal was that by the end of the century, by 2000, that all of those nations and peoples would have the right to exercise self-determination in a plebiscite and to vote for if they wanted to be incorporated into the governing power or to be independent or to have free association with that governing power. Or continued to be a territory, or in some cases like Puerto Rico, Guama, Commonwealth. But in Hawaii there was a vote for statehood in 1958 and there was only one option shall Hawaii be immediately admitted into the union as a state. So there was only that one option. So the other pathway to be again, recognized as an independent nation is to be re inscribed with the UN committee on decolonization. When the statehood vote happened, the United NA states reported to the UN committee on decolonization that a plebiscite was held and that the people had voted to become a state incorporated into the us. But so that that vote is being challenged as not being fully informed. Vote, which is what it has to be. The people have to be fully informed and it has to be a free exercise. Right? And people feel that that plebiscite didn't meet those standards because Hawaii was heavily still had a heavy presence of the US military and the military members, and their dependence could vote in the election, so they would've voted for incorporation into the U Union. So they're challenging that as well as another pathway to get re inscribed with United Nations. In 1993, president Clinton signed a public law apology for the overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii. The apology from the US acknowledged the overthrow as an illegal act of war. It also laid the basis for reconciliation through the US government, and established a definition to recognize native Hawaiians on the basis of their political status rather than their race. The Obama administration later gave recognition to Native Hawaiians to have a government to government relationship with the us. Davian said one of the reasons this recognition is so important is because of what happened with the Rice Verse Katano Supreme Court case. In 2000, this court case challenged the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, which was established in 1978. After the US failed to use proceeds from seated lands for the betterment of Native Hawaiian conditions, they set up an election process for the Board of Trustees in which only native Hawaiians could vote. In the US Supreme Court ruled that the election process was a violation of the 15th Amendment, which states that the right to vote cannot be denied on account of race or color. There have also been other challenges to the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, which Davian says A group called Aloha for All is partially behind. Law for All is, you know, claiming that everyone who lives in Hawaii is Hawaiian, just like everybody who lives in California is Californian. Mm-hmm., uh, and that people who have, um, benefits because they are of native wine ancestry, uh, it, it, it are receiving racial pr, you know, benefits. Mm-hmm. based on racial privilege. You know, the history that you talked me through of like the details of how Hawaii eventually became an American state, is that a history that is taught regularly to students, you know, in Hawaii growing up or just, um, I guess just known amongst people living in Hawaii or talked about? It's more and more the case that, that it is being taught, especially in our charter schools, commitment schools, private schools are beginning to change the narrative. Um, and the Department of Education, I've worked with some of their curriculum developers from the university level. They have changed the narrative. Um, we got, but we, that only began really clearly on the hundredth anniversary of the overthrow in 1993. So it's been the last maybe 20, how long has that been? Any 20, 20, 30 years. So my generation definitely did not grow up with that history. My generation had to do the research to rewrite the books, to change the history. And now we are teach, you know, now art students are teaching with new books and new, new, even more research is being done to rewrite the narrative of do you know, domination and colonization. So more and more it is being taught. So I'm in Washington Square Park in New York asking people about their knowledge of how Hawaii became a state. Where are you from? I'm from California. Do you mind sharing your age? It's 28. Do you know how Hawaii became a state? I feel like bits and pieces, but not the whole story. Do you know about the overthrow of Hawaii's monarchy? Yes. Queen. I feel like her name is Lacoy. I might be saying April. Yeah. Um, and like it had to do with like the pineapple plantations there. Um, and how Dole really screwed her over, but I don't know, like the whole full picture of it. Okay. Thank you. Where are you from? Uh, New York. And what is your age? 28. Okay. And do you know how Hawaii became a state? Vaguely. I know that there was like an overthrow of the monarchy that was there from the, of the natives, but like specifics, I don't necessarily know. Like what specifically was centered around or focused around. Okay. Thank you so much. Where are you? Jamaica, how long have you lived in New York? Since 2016. How old are you? 22. Um, have you ever heard anything about the overthrow of Hawaii's monarchy since you've lived here? No. Never heard of it. I'm from Chicago. I'm, I'll be 25 next month.. Okay. Do you know how Hawaii became a, an American state? I don't, I, I don't actually, I know it was in 1959, but I don't know very much about the statehood. I, I, I feel like I know more about how it became like a territory of the us. Okay. Yeah. Do you know anything about how the monarchy was overthrown? I mean, basically just that it was like, I know there was interest in like agriculturally, like using Hawaii and like a lot of the fruit plantations wanted to, to like kind of stake their claim. Okay, thank you. Where are you from? Uh, Brooklyn, New York. How old are you? 21. Do you know how Hawaii became a state? Uh, I remember there was like a war, I'm pretty sure that happened in Hawaii or it was used as like a base for the USA or something like that. Yeah. Do you know anything about the overthrow of the monarchy? Not that I remember. I learned about it when I was in like ninth grade, but I don't really remember after that. Uh, I'm from Chicago, Illinois. I'm 42. Do you know how Hawaii became an American state? No, I do not., do you know anything about the overthrow of Hawaii? Oh, no, I don't. I wanna talk a little bit more about the effects of the overthrow of the monarchy in Hawaii up to today. So what are issues that native Hawaiians are still dealing with because of what happened then? The health issues are most prominent for native Hawaiians. We still have shorter lifespans by about 10 years than the general population. Women have very high rates of vaginal cancers and cervical cancers that are higher death rates from these cancers because of later diagnosis. And Hawaiians collectively have very high risk factors for cardiovascular disease. And then we also have high rates of incarcerated Hawaiians. So we make up 20, 21% of the population, but 35 to 40% of the male inmate population in the female inmate population. Um, we had higher rates than the juvenile, um, population. Uh, we have higher rates of people on welfare. We have higher rates of unemployment than the general population. It's a f. Reflection of, uh, alienation from the government. So, you know, Hawaiians still have larger families and most than other, than some of the other ethnic groups. Um, but less resources, less access to resources. We as a people don't have the benefit of that, the wealth of these lands, right? That belong to our nation to take care of our people, right? So we could provide better healthcare for our people. We, and we're trying to, we have really made an effort to have more native Hawaiian physicians trained and to go back to our communities to provide those services. We have the Hawaiian homelands that were established for native Hawaiians in 1921, 200,000 acres, but as late. 1970s only, only about 15% of the land was actually distributed to Native Hawaiians. And there was this wait list of, you know, uh, several thousand people, people dying on the wait list, never getting the land that should have been awarded to them because of the price of living in paradise. You know, our cost of living is based on tourists, right? What the tourists can afford. Our housing is based on what the military subsidy for off based housing is. You know, um, the cost of living is beyond our, and we don't have control over the land resources. The which, which would then give us the basis for a substantial economy mm-hmm. and, uh, an economic engine to provide for the needs of our people. Um, most of our people live, uh, here on Oahu, but there's still people that live in these rural. Communities. Mm-hmm. Like on Moka, um, you know, they're on Moka. We make up 60% of the population. Um, in Hana district. We make up I think 40% of the population. So are these We make up 90% of the population. So while general in, in general we're 20%, we have these concentrations mm-hmm. in rural communities that also have very high rates of unemployment. Mm-hmm., but Hawaiians very independent minded and don't want to assimilate, don't wanna be part of that urban setting on Oahu, although their children have to go away to Oahu or even to the continent to get jobs now. Mm-hmm.. And it's very disappointing because housing is too expensive. That's how painful it is when our children can't have to move away. Where 51% of our people. Are not able to live in the islands. And is that why Hawaiian populations have now formed in different, AM like American states? Yeah. Yeah. You have a lot of people moving. Most recently I've heard people moving to Las Vegas, but mm-hmm., um, I know there are people moving to more, so California has large right. Population. Do you call it like Mainland America? Like what would you refer to I guess as America , we started call, we started calling it the continent because the mainland, as we saw, is a really colon part of our colonized mentality. You say, oh, the, we're just an offshoot of this mainland. Mm-hmm., you know, and it's 2000, 2000 more miles away. Right. How could it be a main lab? Right. That's in our makes sense. It's in our, some, the colonial imagination. Right. That that's our main lab. Yeah. So what exactly, I guess if you could get a little bit more specific about like why maybe native Hawaiians are diagnosed later or maybe don't have. Resources or have a shorter lifespan. Yes. We need to have healthier diets. We need to have better higher incomes in order to have healthier diets, or we need to continue to be able to fish, you know, have access to and live in these areas where we can have a healthy marine environment. Right. Um, we need to put controls over our marine resources so it's not all commercial. Mm-hmm., but it can provide for subsistence. Right. So is it now like those foods are more expensive because it's kind of goes into that, like cost of living, just how expensive things are? Yeah. Well, it became apparent in the pandemic where all the fish that was caught in Hawaii was going straight to hotel and restaurant. Hotels and restaurants. Mm-hmm. or mo, you know, the restaurants serving the tourists. Mm-hmm.. And so there the restaurants were closed. The fishermen where, where they gonna sell mm-hmm.. So they began to find ways to market it. to the people in Hawaii. Right. And then we realized, wow, you know, we have no internal economy. Mm-hmm. to support our people, all of this economy. And the cost of it is to support our tourist. Right. I feel like a lot of times people kind of, especially from America, justify, oh, it's okay if I go and travel here because like they need tourism or like their economy, you know, is based on tourism, which is evident. But I think it's, I nice hearing that perspective of, you know, you need a different economy. Like, it, it just doesn't it, you know, I guess what is the native Hawaiian perspective of people actually going there and traveling? It's just too much. We realized there are too many tourists. There has to be some way to manage the number of tourists who are coming to the islands. Our, our resources are over tapped. You know, we saw our beaches when there were no tourists. We could see marine life coming back. There are fishes again. Mm-hmm. in the last two and a half years, our resources have regenerated because there's not all these tourists with their sunan lotion in the ocean. Ocean. Right. Damaging their ecosystem. And so, um, and even our, our leaders are recognizing that we, it's just too many tourists. Mm-hmm., I mean, if you look at the lines at the airport and tsa Yeah. And the, the impact on our beaches, the impact to our trails and hikes, and it's just mm-hmm.. And so recently we have, um, the Council for Native Wine Advancement put in a bid to manage the tourism advertising. Mm-hmm. the way Tourism authority granted them. Mm-hmm. the bid. To tell a different story so people come and be more respectful and, uh, uh, and also understand the history of the islands and the responsibility we have when we come to be respectful of these fragile resources. We are just an island. We have limited water resources. We have limited, uh, food resources. You know, we import 85% of our food because we have to support a tourist economy. We just really need to lower the price of Paradise . Mm-hmm., . I think we're all impacted by it. In and in, in one way or another. I, everybody here knows somebody who's in the visitor industry. That's Russell Sub. He grew up and currently lives in Hawaii. You know, I, I can't fault anybody for. forgetting a job, you know, they gotta, they gotta feed their family. They gotta take care of themselves, and they gotta mm-hmm., you know, they gotta be able to survive here. And, and if that's the job that, that best suits them, or if that's the job that's available at the moment, then, you know, by all means, you gotta, you gotta do it. Mm-hmm.. Um, but the, the visitor industry does influence a lot of actions that I think the government takes. And, you know, it's the number one industry here. It's in every lawmaker's interest to preserve the industry, to, to keep jobs, to keep people working. And so it's a, it's a hard, it's a hard thing to balance here, knowing that people come, people fall in love with the place, or, or people see the, the value of living here and then people from outside the state buying up land or buying up homes here, you know, making the market. More scarce for us, driving up prices, um, for, to, to the point where local people can't afford to live here. And I think that's the biggest impact mm-hmm. That, that our relationship with visitors has is, is this, is this lack of, of housing. Uh, or not, not even really well, it becomes lack of housing, but it really, it's the pricing that is, is, uh, really impacting us in, in a negative way, the average middle class person trying to, trying to make it, um, we're, we're slowly, slowly being priced out of our, our own land, our and our own home. My parents moved to the big island, which we, we call it the big island, but I think now most, or I, I think now in a marketing sense, people call it Hawaii Island. So we. My parents moved to the big island when I was three. I grew up there. I never left the state until I was 18, but I would, I would fly from the big island to Oahu, uh, fairly regularly. My, my parents' family still live on Oahu. Uh, so after I graduation, I moved to Colorado. I lived there for 15 years. I, I got married, I had four kids, and then I moved them back to Hawaii in 2008. And I've been back home. Uh, initially we moved back to the big island, but after a year we moved to Oahu. So we've been back home for about 14 years. So what was that like then? That difference of like, going to Colorado? I, I think when I left I was interested in what life was like outside of Hawaii. I, I, I think pretty much I wanted to know, I wanted to see things I'd been seeing on tv. And so I was eager to leave. I was eager to learn new things and see new things, but when I did move, Um, after a while I did find that I missed home and the good thing for me is I had a lot of family in Colorado. My dad had two brothers and two cousins and their families. And so I spent most of my years in Colorado, uh, with them doing things we would've done here. You know, we held Luaus and we had, um, we had family gatherings mm-hmm. and we did a lot of Hawaiian things and, um, and so it, it was, it was a good way to stay connected and, and be around familiar way, a familiar way of life. Uh, but after a while I felt like it was time to go back home and, and live life for real here and bring my kids back home and allow them to live here and live in the culture here and, and get to know better their family here. Right. And so could you go into a little more details as far as like your kids living in the culture? Like, what are some specifics there? When, when we were. When we were living in Colorado, all of my kids learned to dance hula. They learned how to cook the traditional foods, the, the Kahlua pork and things that we see at, at typical luaus, like, uh, chicken long rice and Lomi salmon. Uh, we had, we had big luaus whenever somebody graduated or somebody, uh, or a baby turned one, which is pretty typical for here. And so my, my kids all performed mm-hmm. during those, those times. Um, and I think just, just gathering as a family I is a big deal here. And so they, they became accustomed to that. Um, and I think in addition, I think wearing clothes, I always made sure I, my kids had Hawaiian shirts to wear or something that said on them. Um, you know, we, and, and. The, the thing that we were lacking though is, uh, I, I don't, I don't speak fluent Hawaiian, and so I only passed down some words to them. So language wasn't a, wasn't a big part of it. And, and I think, I think they kind of got the basic experience living in the mainland ki kind of things. Kind of similar to what I had when I was growing up. So then what was your experience, I know you kind of mentioned when you would have friends visit Hawaii and who would have no idea about this history? What were those experiences like? I, I remember one in particular, and I've, I've had a handful of friends come and visit and stay with us, but one couple in particular came to Hawaii. Uh, they stayed with us. They actually stayed in our home and they, the good thing about them is they were very interested. They wanted to know about the history. They wanted to. Um, how people interacted with each other. They, they wanted to know what they should expect during their time. And so there, there's some jokes here. You know, you don't go to this part because, um, that's where the, this part of the island, cause that's where the real locals are and the real locals, you know, they're, they can be, they can be dangerous, so you don't want to go there without me. And it, and we say that in a playful manner, but what they didn't realize as, as I was kind of telling them these things, what they didn't realize is that, is that there was some dispute or there was, there wasn't, um, it didn't, it wasn't a consensus across all of the population for Hawaii to become a state. They, I think they had always thought that, that it was something that was exciting to the people at the time. And because the United States was the popular kid in the world at that time,, it seemed to them only natural that Hawaii would want to join the United States. And I think at the time there were a lot of people who, who felt that way? I mean, my grandfather's from that time, and he has a completely different, or he had a completely different view of the re of our state's relationship with the us then people do now. And, but, but I w what they didn't realize is how it came to that point, how we had a monarchy and mm-hmm. and how, um, some, some business people had infiltrated, uh, a lot of our, uh, a lot of the monarchy and influenced them. And that, and it, uh, in 1893, they, they ultimately overthrew the mar, the monarchy, imprison, or queen. Mm-hmm.. They were unaware of all of that. And so it was important for me to kind of give 'em a, a basic understanding, right. Of. of what happened and, and kind of point them in the direction of some historical places they could visit to get a much fuller picture. Mm-hmm.. And so they're from the United States, right? Yes, they were, they were friends that I had made when I was living in ca. Okay. So when you were growing up in school, was the history of how Hawaii became an American state, was that something that was like regularly taught about in school? It, it was, but I don't think that it really went into a lot of depth. Uh, we, when I was in elementary school, we had a Hawaiian teacher that would come to our class regularly, and I think there was a lot more of teaching, of, of traditions, maybe song dance, things like that. And then in our history classes, we did have textbooks. And in, in those textbooks it talked about some of the occurrences that happened leading up to becoming a state. Who, the, who the major players were, who the chiefs and the, the kings and the queens, who the, uh, the monarchs were and how they interacted with countries once they started to come to Hawaii. So, uh, I think, I think we got a fairly good education now. This was in, this is in the eighties. Mm-hmm.. Uh, and I think things are much different now. I think things are much better now. So I'm also curious how you learned about the United States in school? Like whether it was in like a history course or just in general? I think it was, I think I got it from a lot of different avenues. I think in, in school there were, uh, there was curriculum there, you know, there was history, there was Hawaiian history. Uh, my family, uh, although my, uh, there's, there's a lot of different, um, there's like a lot of different levels of knowledge, of history amongst. The families that live here. Now, my, my family, my, my parents, uh, grew up in the seventies. And so their parents were from the era where, where Hawaii became a, became a state, and I think, and my grandfather was, was in the military. So he was very patriotic, very, um, very appreciative of the us. So my, that kind of filtered down into my parents. So the, the history that I got from my parents was along the similar lines that Hawaii was a better place. Mm-hmm. because, uh, because the US had come in and, and annexed our state or our islands to, to the country. But there were other, there were other families that we knew, there were other people that we knew that told a different story and they, they told the story of, of the overthrow. Mm-hmm., how, uh, how our queen was treated and, and how the islands were taken away. So I think., I think I heard a lot of different points of views from a lot of different groups that were in my life. Right. Not, not just school, but from family. Mm-hmm. and friends and, uh, from watching things on, on television or things in movies or reading books mm-hmm., uh, it was, it was actually pretty readily available Mm. To me growing up. So it sound, was it something that I guess was kind of like a regular topic of conversation amongst people? It, it, it, it was, it was, and, and I think a lot of, I think as I was growing up, I think the idea of sovereignty was gaining more traction. The idea that that Hawaiians should be able to determine for themselves and determine for the islands how we should move, move forward. Mm-hmm., how should we, should be governed and, and how we should be and how our resources should be stewarded. So I think. I think a lot of, when a lot of conversations moved to sovereignty, there was a lot of discussion that I heard or was part of mm-hmm. where we, we talked about, you know, what, what was historically true, what was historically accurate and what, what, what the consequences were and what we may or may not be owed or what we may or may not have the right to at the, at that moment in time. Right. Do you think that, how you're saying your grandfather being part of the military may have contributed to his viewpoint of it versus someone else's grandparents, depending on what they were maybe doing at the time. Um, I guess I'm curious, like what are, would you kind of just touched on it, but like what are other factors maybe that have contributed to this change in generation? Like have you seen, I guess more upfront, like the effects of it? Like do you think that made a difference? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, there, there was a generation where, , it was shameful to be Hawaiian. It was shameful to speak Hawaiian. It was shameful to dance hula. Um, it was, it was shameful to be native. And my, my grand, I think my grandfather grew up in that era where, where his parents were, the people that raised him said, you know, put, put the Hawaiian things away and be more American. And so my, when my grandfather grew up, that was what was normal to him. He joined the military. He was a lifelong military man. He was very, very patriotic. And, and that's how he raised his kids. And, and that's how my, my, my mom and her siblings grew up. But in the, in the 1970s, there was, I think late sixties, 1970s, there was this big revival in Hawaiian arts that made its way through the state. Hawaiian music started coming back. Mm-hmm., uh, dance started coming back. The. Uh, the building of the Hokulea and sailing to Tahiti using traditional methods was a huge milestone. Mm-hmm. arrival of all these cultural arts and all these cultural traditions mm-hmm. and this, this all happened I think shortly before I was born. And then what I remember growing up is, is listening to the music and learning more about these things that are being revived. Um, I couldn't tell you what the impetus was for the revival mm-hmm., but I do remember a lot more people taking pride in, in their heritage. Mm-hmm. and, and in seeking out, uh, the ability to speak or dance or sing or do other traditional Hawaiian things. And the, the good thing I, the good thing I is today, things are much different. There are Hawaiian language schools that are. Perpetuating the language and, and there are a lot more fluent speakers today. I, I, I know more fluent speakers did, I know more fluent speakers now than I ever did growing up. Wow. And there are more, more things available, more, um, more ways to interact and more, uh, more revival. I see fish bonds being rebuilt, ancient fish bonds being rebuilt. Um, I see a lot more interest in restoring a lot of the, the old ways, the old traditions, the old places, and a lot more preserving that, that lifestyle. Mm-hmm.. Um, um, so I'm curious from your perspective too, like why do you. That knowing that history and kind of like that true, more accurate, I guess, description and the history of how Hawaii became a state. Like, why do you think that is important for people to know? I, I think it's important for the local people to know because I, I strongly believe that the more you know about your past, the more you know about yourself. And I think, I think there are a lot of people that struggle with identity, you know, with, um, in a, in a lot of different ways. And I know for myself, it was hard to reconcile being Hawaiian, living on the, on the continent, living in Colorado, um, not knowing, not not being fluent in my own language, not knowing the fullness of my, of my history. And so I think for ourselves, the more we know who we are, what we've, what we've accomplished in the past as a people, and I think there are some pretty impressive things. I mean, Being able to sail the South Pacific is a thing we ought to be very proud of, uh, in a, in a day and age where you, no modern technology, just the use of the stars and the currents and the tides. And I think the more young Hawaiians know what kind of people we were, how capable we are, how innovative we are, I think the more confidence they'll have moving forward knowing that they can accomplish the things that they have their heart set on or that they're interested in. Mm-hmm.. And, and we don't have to feel like, you know, we're, we have to take a backseat to any of the other, uh, ethnicities that, that call this, this state home. And I think for people that are non Hawaiian or people outside of Hawaii, I think it's important to, to know so that they have an accurate view of who we are as a people and, and who the Hawaiian people are. Um, I, I definitely. one, one thing that really, that that just really gets under my skin is the, the, the people that come to visit with the mentality that, that them visiting Hawaii is helping us, is giving us a job or putting money into our economy. And so a lot of times it comes with this, with this big sense of entitlement mm-hmm. that we ought to, you know, we ought to, to bend the way we live or give them special access because they're doing us a favor. And I think if they were to know that, that this, that Hawaii is a home with a history and a, and a culture, a u a unique history, a unique culture, I think that, I think they would see us in a different light. And I, I feel like they would come with a lot more, with a lot more, uh, respect and a more, and in a more humble manner. Mm-hmm. and. and in a, in a, in the long term, be able to learn more about our history and our traditions and being able to, you know, and make it part of their own lives and maybe even spread, you know, uh, pieces of our culture as they move forward in their lives. You know, take something good from us and make it a good part of their lives. Definitely. Do you have any, I guess, specific memories or situations where, you know, you've seen how tourists have treated maybe the people or land or anything, or maybe disrespected it? I, I think I see a lot on, I see a lot of things on social media. Mm-hmm., um, I, I, I don't work in the visitor industry mm-hmm., uh, I don't spend a lot of time, you know, in Waikiki or at beaches where there are a lot of visitors and, and it's just, it's just not my, it's just not my thing. Right. I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not saying that, um, I don't like being around them, so I don't know. maybe personally. Mm-hmm., but I see, I see quite a bit on, on social media. I see quite a bit. There's been a lot of tourists that have, um, messed around with the monk seals on the beach that are endangered. They're not supposed to touch them, they're not supposed to be within a certain, uh, amount of distance from them. Um, I know tourists are always trying to grab turtles and trying to ride them. Um, and turtles are another endangered species that are not supposed to be touched. I see people getting too close to the, to the edge of where water is really rough and oftentimes, um, um, getting injured or, or getting pulled out to sea because of it. So I see a lot of things where a lack of education or maybe or, or maybe some form of hubris puts them in a position that their actions seem de really disrespectful. Mm-hmm. to. To our life and, and the way we do things here. Right. I definitely do think it, it all comes back to like a lack of education. And the only reason why I really was introduced to these specific things that you're talking about is because I knew somebody from Hawaii. So it's, I think it's a little unfortunate that it's like you have to know somebody from there when it could be talked about more. Um, yeah, so I, I hope that people at least like, walk away from this episode with that urge of like, yeah, maybe I should learn more. Like, not even just about this specific history, but just about the culture and how to respect it. I, I definitely hope so as well. I think, I think we as a people are very welcoming people, but we're also on the lookout for, you know, who is respectful, who is disrespectful, who feels entitled, and I think if you come in with, with an attitude that you wanna learn and you want to do things the right way and you want to. You want to assimilate into the way that life is here, I think that that's the right way to approach it and I think you'll have a, a much different experience. Mm-hmm. and a much better experience when, when you do that. I think what people really need to understand is that even though Hawaii is the 50th state in the United States, wahi is not America. Mm-hmm., I think that's a, I think that's a pretty distinct, a pretty important distinction to make. Right. And it's interesting cuz as you were saying that like if somebody I know is talking about, oh, well I wanna move to Amsterdam, but they'll immediately say, but they don't, like if you don't speak the language there or which I'm just, I don't wanna like speak for people from Amsterdam if that's like a real thing. I'm just kinda using it as an example. People have like, oh, if it's in another country, they consider those things about how you have to adapt to live there. But I think. From my personal perspective and opinion, just the way we learn. We're just kind of told growing up, at least my experience in Ohio, like Hawaii is one of the 50 states. So I think people are conditioned to think of Hawaii as America. And unless you do go there and know people from there, it's not at all like how you're saying American. And so I think that's kind of where that sense of entitlement comes from. Like we don't learn about it as in its own specific way. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. I, I, I feel like the root of, of this, um, of that, that point of view or, or some of the entitlement that we see when, when visitors do come, is this idea that they're, they're stepping from, you know, California into California West or you know, from middle America to just this really far part of America off on, in the middle of the ocean. Mm-hmm. when, when the, when Hawaii is a, is a very. Different and, and unique place with different values and, um, and just a, just a different type of lifestyle. So I'm curious, like, for you, learning history in school, did you even, did you learn about other history, I guess besides like Hawaiian history, like what were history classes like in Hawaii? As far as what they covered? Yeah. And when I was growing up in the eighties, it was, it was a lot of American history. Um, some, some world history, some Hawaiian history. But I could tell you more about, uh, the Revolutionary War or the Civil War, or the industrial Revolution. I, I, those are all probably more familiar to me or were more familiar to me growing up than, than things that happened in Hawaii. Like, uh, like the succession of, of Kings. Mm-hmm., like the poll of prayer, like the overthrow, uh, even, even on the hundredth anniversary of the overthrow. I don't even really think that it, it was, it was well known or, or was known enough. Uh, what happened? I think people understood that it happened a hundred years ago. Mm-hmm.. Um, I don't think people, uh, I don't remember anything really big happening right on, on that hundred hundredth anniversary. So I think, um, I think that old adage that winners write history or the victor's mm-hmm. write history, I think that's a big component to what gets taught in schools. Right. I think what I think the US' involvement in the overthrow may be, you know, maybe something that they would rather that historians would rather sweep under the rug mm-hmm. than have in the book. So maybe that's not talked about, maybe that's not focused on, I mean, it took until President Clinton's administration. to make that apology Right. To native Hawaiians. And so all the way up until that point, you know, the US didn't even officially recognize the overthrow mm-hmm. and, and, and their, their part in the overthrow. Yeah. And I just think it's inter like, to me it really seems like it was more convenient to o omit all of these things because it doesn't make America look good. And walking away from American history, you have this feeling of like, America is like the greatest country in the world and we've done a and, and also I think it's this aspect of, oh, we did these bad things so long ago, but there's still, I, I, from what I've seen and like learned about still ways Hawaii's being negatively impacted by the US and so I'm just like, seems very convenient for us not to learn about that. So yeah. It's just like one thing after another that's just totally omitted. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think there are a lot of, um, A lot of things that, that are overlooked or, or omitted. And I, I think us being such a small state, I think the, the size of our state contributes to that. I think our relatively, um, we, you know, we've only been a, a state since 1959. Mm-hmm., I think that that plays a, a role in it as well. Um, but the, but the good thing, the good thing is that a lot of us have taken it on ourselves to, to bring that history back and to revive things. So what, what I see now as, as compared to when I was growing up, is just this huge revival and, and there's a lot more opportunities to learn the language, a lot more opportunities to learn about important things that have happened. Um, and, and just a, just a lot more, a lot more placing, a lot more importance now on. On our history and our, and our culture, despite any, any other attempt to overlook it, omit it, or, or suppress it. Maybe even, uh, a lot of content creators out there that want to educate people want to inform, inform more people. So I'm ha I'm, I'm happy to see more of, of that kind of content being put out there and, and, uh, people being able to learn from it. Mm-hmm., I would just, what, what I think I would love for people outside of Hawaii to do is, is yes, come and visit us. I feel like there's a lot they could learn. I feel like there's a lot we could learn from them as well, but I think when you come and visit, find opportunities to do something mm-hmm. right? And, and not just look at something and not just see something, uh, do, do all those things. I mean, those, there's a lot of important history and important culture here, but find a, find a way to do something, whether it's. Plant a tree or, um, or harvest some, some taro or some call or to, to pound that call into poi or, or, or find a way to, to, to learn how to dance, hula, or to speak or, or to speak conversationally in Hawaiian. Because I think, I think that'll change your perspective on who we are and what this place is. And I think you'll leave with a, with just a, a stronger sense of who we are. And even, you know, even it could change you. You could even change who you think you are and even touch maybe who you want to be. Yeah. And I think just really focusing on how Hawaii has contributed to the United States. Like what. We have benefited from, you know, there's a lot of history there too. And so I think that, um, something that comes up in every single episode is what history should be celebrated. Like what groups of people should be celebrated for instead of just, you know, something bad happened in this place or to these people. Um, so I guess if you had to leave somebody, like a listener who doesn't know much about Hawaiian culture with something to look up or look into, um, is there like one topic where you would maybe suggest somebody starts? I, I would suggest, I would suggest taking a look at our last Queen, uh, queen Lilly Kalani. I think that she was an incredibly talented person. Um, she's very well known for the songs that she's written for, the lyrics that she's written. Uh, she's written a book called Hawaii Story by The Last Queen. And I think, I think if people were to read about her, And read how talented she was and, and how loving she was. And then realized that when, when she was overthrown that she, that there was, she didn't have this big cry for revenge, right. She didn't tell the people, you know, rise up and, you know, overtake all these people sent me free. She really, she really felt like it was in the best interest of our people to take to, to stand down and, and, and to, and to wait and to, and to quietly, um, to, to continue going about our way of life. And, and I, I think, I think it would be very easy for any Monarch, any ruler to, to, to call for, to call for action, especially violence. Mm-hmm., but she took a different route and I think. I think if more people knew about who she was and how she handled herself, even in, in the midst of, of, uh, probably, probably one of the most terrible moments in our history, I think they'll get a sense for the kind of people that we are. You know, that, that we're, we're talented people and a, and a loving people and a forgiving people, and I feel like there's a lot of things that, that are deeply rooted in our culture that could help, that could help remind the world how we should treat each other. Mm-hmm. and how we should interact with each other, and how we should live amongst each other. Yeah, I definitely think how she dealt with that after that happened, like that's kind of something that in general in history isn't part of a history lesson, but like those details, like how people persevered or how people are resilient, I think that represents cultures a lot too. I think that's really a cultural thing. Yeah. Yeah, I'd agree. I mean, look, look at our . Look, look at, uh, president Trump when he felt like power was slipping from his hands. Oh, yeah., he called for, he called for an overthrow at the capitol. I mean, yeah. That very easily could have happened, uh, but it didn't. Right. Um, one very specific thing I wanted to ask you about, just cuz this kind of came up, um, in conversation the other day with someone. So I learned the meaning of aloha is hello and goodbye. And somebody recently was saying there's a lot more meaning behind Aloha. Yeah. Um, do you wanna share that? You know, one, one meaning that I, that I love to share, um, uh, uh, is that the, the, the backend of aloha is this word ha, which means breath and the way that Hawaiians greet each other. Is with this act of ha where we press our noses to each other and we breathe in the breath that is between us. And I think it's symbolic. And, and maybe even, maybe in, maybe even in reality, us breathing the same air connects us even further when we think about aloha. Yes. Yes it is. Hello. Yes, it is Goodbye. But it's, it's also just this idea that, that we sh that we should get along with everyone. That we should love everyone, that we should treat everyone in a respectful and loving manner. And I feel like if more of us had this idea and more of us lived our our lives and interacted with each other with this idea that we want to. we want to put something positive into you rather than take something from you for ourselves. Mm-hmm.. I think this idea of aloha and breathing and, and sharing this same breath, I think, I think it could change the way we see each other and I think it could change the way we interact with each, with each other and, and just make for a better place for a better world. Mm-hmm., I asked Aviana about what decolonization could look like if Hawaii does gain independence from the United States government. Well, I think we'd get all our military bases back, which is 25% of Oahu. I mean, we could solve our housing problem with deescalating in the military presence in Hawaii alone. But I think really realistic of we are looking at independence. It's gonna be way into the future. One of my colleagues, we were having a discussion. She was saying, well, you know, we have to look at it long term. You know, Greece was once under the Roman Empire, but eventually it became independent. And, um, the U S S R was once a, you know, a great empire, but it dissolved. And those previous countries that were part of the Soviet Socialist Republic are now independent conditions in the United States would have to change dramatically so that Hawaii would want to become independent. People living here would wanna be independent from what would be going on in the United States. I think we all saw a glimpse of that in the last administration and the mm-hmm., the, the, the visions within the, the society and the racism that was, um, open and raw and you. Who would wanna live in such a divided society? How can it survive? Mm-hmm. and, and do we wanna be in Hawaii? Whi, which has a very much, we do live, Aloha. It's, it's very important to us to find ways to respect different cultures and live with each other. How will climate change begin to affect our islands? Mm-hmm., which that, you know, a lot of the tourist industry might, which is built along the shorelines, might have to relocate, retrench. Mm-hmm., you would have a whole different economy that would need to emerge, right. As a result of climate change. More than likely it would be out of necessity that we would want to become independent of the United States because it would just be too repugnant or, and too dangerous for non-white people to be a part of America. I don't know. Or maybe. Maybe United States States will find a way to coexist and, and find racial peace and harmony. I don't know, I would hope, but one would hope. Yeah, for the survival of everyone in the continent. Thanks for listening to this season of Reconsider Everything. I hope you walk away from these conversations with a perspective that will continue to shift and an understanding that there is always more history to learn. The next time you see a debate on Twitter, a celebrity influencing their fan's point of view, or hear about a topic that should not be taught about in school, stop and think about the people who are impacted by these conversations and ask yourself, do you really know everything that happened? Don't forget, at the end of the day, in the midst of all the controversy around multicultural history, this is truly just history. These stories really happened and must be told in order to live in an empathetic and functioning democracy. I'm your host, Marissa Nichol. This interview was recorded by Tim Burdock. Narration were recorded by Brooklyn Podcasting Studio. This episode was edited by Jake Stevens. All music was composed by Alex Joaquin, and Cover Art was created by Olivia Nickel. If you enjoyed this season, subscribe for more and leave a review. As always, you can continue your education on our social media handles and at the resource list in the description below.