Today we are going to discuss the all-encompassing topic of marriage. Since last week we shared our thoughts on God’s heart around divorce, it only makes sense to think about God’s heart for marriage. Each of us is over a decade into our journey of marriage with a lot to learn. But also, we have many lessons learned thus far. Pull up a chair, and let's discuss.
Resources:
Today we are going to discuss the all-encompassing topic of marriage. Since last week we shared our thoughts on God’s heart around divorce, it only makes sense to think about God’s heart for marriage. Each of us is over a decade into our journey of marriage with a lot to learn. But also, we have many lessons learned thus far. Pull up a chair, and let's discuss.
Resources:
You're probably going to hate us, but we're conservative Christian moms. We're here to empower other conservative Christian moms to speak up, say what's true and defend their children's futures. I'm Nikki River and I'm the often too emotional mother of two. As always, I'm joined by Candy Rose Hey guys, and Amy Alexander. Hello. So today we are going to discuss the all encompassing topic of marriage. Since last week, we shared our thoughts on God's heart around divorce. It only makes sense to think about God's heart for marriage. Each one of us is over a decade into our journey of marriage with a lot to learn, but also a lot of lessons learned thus far. Pull up a chair and let's discuss. Yay. Marriage. marriage. makes me think of Wolf So many thoughts. I feel like I don't even know where to start. Actually, I'm going to say something kind of random and just jump on into the whole marriage thing. So, I have teenagers and youth group and right now they're doing this overall, for lack of a better word, sexual education, which sounds whatever it sounds like. So each week they watch a video and then they discuss. So last week, I just thought this was really interesting. So I watch the video ahead of time just so I kind of know what they're discussing. So last week when they met, they talked about marriage and singleness and I really loved the way it was presented. I know it's in a lot of young people's hearts to get married, but they were presenting it in a way of like not one is better than the other. Like we shouldn't all be striving for marriage. Cause of course they're all teenagers. So they're, love that So much. I, did, I loved it a lot and I don't know, you know, I don't know how much of it is sinking into their hearts, but I know we're talking about marriage. I just thought to say, that's a really interesting, I don't think that was presented very much to us as teenagers. Like, Hey, this is also a really awesome godly way to live, but it is also an awesome godly way to live if you are single. I think that's awesome. It is. I love, um, you know, when we listen to Tara Lee Cobble a lot with the Bible Recap, and I feel like she brings a lot of that perspective often. Like she, when there's a single girl in the story, she was like, Hey, it's a call to single peeps. Keep going. God's got you. And so I would be interested in listening to that because. You're right. Especially our generation. I feel like we were a lot of our, or at least a lot of my friends went to school to get their MRS Oh, you know, our Mrs. that was a And so I love that like an alternate path. Right, and I think, and I, we'll all agree, and I know we're gonna maybe just recap our, our own walks here in a minute. I think it's very easy and basic, and I'm just gonna, marriage is hard. I think we can all agree, marriage is hard. I think the life of singleness, is also hard. I don't think there's an easier way. I think single people think, Oh, marriage is this wonderful, beautiful thing. Marriage is really, really hard. And sometimes I look at single people and I'm like, you have it so much easier, but that's actually not fair. The grass is always greener. I think no matter what path you're on, there's going to be moments of hard and that's just life. That's really good. That , Reality San Francisco church I always listen to, they definitely have like a whole theology around celibacy and just kind of like a re enchanting of the fact that living, living in a celibate lifestyle is actually our future. Like it's actually what new creation looks like. You know, we're not going to be married. In new creation and stuff. And so, Just this idea that like, there's not something wrong with you to be celibate. There's not something right. Like, and I mean, this is a whole other topic, but just the fact that, that homosexuality is being awakened in so many kids, we're going to see a massive population of people that are either in homosexual relationships or, if they are redeemed, they might be in a situation where they They're not going to live that way because they don't believe it's biblical, but they can, that lifestyle, because it was awakened in them, that can be redeemed into like a beautiful celibate lifestyle. Which is what they're seeing a lot in San Francisco. So, um, yeah, I think marriage is definitely on a pedestal in the church. have to link Yeah, I can, I can link it, but marriage is on a pedestal in the church, which, um, it is beautiful and it's a representation of Jesus in the church, but it shouldn't be. Put on this, like, , better way, like weird, I don't Or like a weird goal that we're all trying to achieve or something. I don't know. That's how I approached it, to be honest I knew from a young age I wanted to get married. I knew, I was like, I grabbed my person really quick. I was like, you're him, you're sticking with me. You're not going anywhere. I mean, a couple of times I was like, no, not you, Scott. And then he was like, no, you're, you're it for me. But I feel like, he always knew that. I was the one for him. He, he had said he had prayed and he knew that I was the person for him. But for me, I don't feel like that was my motivation. I was like, I don't want to be alone. I don't want to be 30 and single. And that's not even old now in hindsight. But you know, like I, I just know that I didn't, I feel like I didn't approach God with it. And I feel like there are consequences to that, even how many years that we've been married 16 years later, where, yeah, I think Scott is my person and he's the one that God planned for me. but I also feel like because I didn't wait and because I like push the timeline, there were consequences that we're still like walking out. You know what I mean? So yeah, marriage definitely. Should not be the goal, closeness with Jesus should be the goal, closeness with the Father, and then all these good things shall be added unto you. It's easy to say as the married person though. So, I recognize that. If you're like, I want to get Yeah, I mean I think there's benefits to both and I know this, we weren't intending for this podcast to be like singleness versus marriage. I just think that no matter what walk of life you're in, there's gonna be and negatives to both. There's not like a, a goal, a a best, uh, That actually makes me think of that term from, that we were talking about last week about, what was it? Like there's the created order, but then there's the wilderness provision, wilderness provizio or something. But I mean, cause I was thinking about like, we are created actually to be in unity with the opposite sex. I mean, God saw Adam and said, it's not good to be alone. So I do think it's a super, a very natural thing for us to long for that pairing up in that companionship. But then we're living in a broken world. And so what that looks like is very different than it did in the garden of Eden. All that to say, , we all are. Many, many years into marriage. I'm, I'm, I'm the, the less of, of them all, which is I'm in my 13th year. You guys are you're 16, right? Yep. Haven't quite hit the 16 mark, but will in a couple months. it. sounds like a lot, but marching Marching. I feel like 16 sounds like a lot on one hand, but then on the other hand, like my grandparents have been married, I think for over 50? It's been a long time. Maybe, maybe over 60. I don't know. It's been a long time. So in some respects No, it's definitely on the young side. It's for sure. I got you. Yeah, I'm a wedding photographer and a lot of weddings do this thing where they're like the anniversary dance where they have the I love people, you know, stay on the floor. And like sometimes, I think we've had like 65 years, maybe even close to 70. We've seen that. And they always ask, what's the secret? And 100 percent of the time, like 99. 9 percent of the time, the guy will say the secret is yes, dear. that's hilarious. That's because all husbands think they're hilarious. I know, I know, it's so, I'm crying because it's so funny, but every single wedding that is so hey, now guys, if you happen to be listening to this, the secret is just go along with your wife. Just Happy wife. No, just kidding. It's a happy house. Happy spouse. Oh, that's funny. I hadn't heard it that way. I would have thought they'd say something about friendship, No. marry your best friend, but that's not what a man would say. I should have known better. No, no, no, but 16 years. Sorry. I keep going on tangents. Okay. So Candace, you go first. 16 years you've been married. Tell us a little bit about your okay, well, gosh, we got married really young. I was 22 and he was 23. So that's very young, I know we talked a little bit about it last week. Me and Amy did. I'm sorry. We missed you, Nikki. we talked It's okay. I'm sorry. I, I was MIA. no, no, yeah, you're vacationing it up., me and Amy talked a little bit about, and I know Nikki, this is the same for you. Like divorce is just not on the table. And so we even talked about that in our dating life, you know, this is for me, this is part of like a marriage that I want is that's not an option for us. For us, the first year was the hardest. I would love to hear what you guys say, because everyone has a different year, I think. But for me and Dawn, it was definitely the first year. It's hard to take single people and the way you've grown, the way you've been, just so many things, and try to like mesh them together. And we both have very strong personalities, so the first year was a doozy. But I don't know. I know we still have so much to learn. I do think 15, almost 16 years, it's nice to find, like, rhythms. we know each other so well. You know, I know I talked about it a little bit with the Malachi grief podcast. I didn't feel like I had to worry about our marriage, even in the middle of my whole world shattering. that wasn't something I had to worry about. So It is a challenge at times, but, um, you know, the longer you're together, you just find, I don't know, you know, each other better each year, you find rhythms, you find, I hate to say it gets easier because I'm not sure that is maybe the right representation, but in a lot of ways it gets easier. agree with that. I would echo that year one, possibly into year two was our hardest. But again, like we, you know, We got married young, so we lived with my dad that first year. yep, you already know all the things that kind of come with that. And, and then we got pregnant right away, which, you know, we were married in June, pregnant by December. So that first 24 months, I remember us bitterly fighting because I think I believed that marriage would complete me. Um, I thought it would bring wholeness to all the parts that were missing. And, and when it didn't, I was very angry and confused. And I took that out on Scott. And I remember really vividly one day I was just like, so angry. And he was He was defeated and rightly so. I was, you know, I had postpartum. There's a lot of things. I was not who I am now. And Scott, if you're listening, I'm sorry again for, for just such a hard spot in our marriage. But I remember saying, you just don't make me happy. You just, you don't do what I need you to do. I, I'm not getting what? I thought I was going to get out of this. And he looked at me and he said, it's not my job to make you happy. And that moment changed the rest of our marriage. Um, I think it would have been really easy for me to be like, you know, offended, but I really took it to heart. I believe it was the Holy Spirit, you know, holding my tongue and letting me hear the words in my heart that, you know, Truly the reason we can say divorce is not on the table. And if this is hard for people to listen to you, because you also felt that way, there's ultimate empathy and I understand. so don't hear me saying this was not your walk. I'm sure everyone feels it. But for me, was the beginning of realizing that the Lord had to fill all those places and that I was not having the Lord fill all those places and that I needed to repent, turn to God and go to Him for my happiness, my sustenance, my joy. And that's something that's been a continual theme. Like when I feel Like, Scott's not giving me what I perceive I need. There's like this little gentle, like, I'm the only, no matter what, even, even if God, because we're in this half life, this in between life, um, we're always going to have a little bit of something missing. And it's because only God can fill that hole. So very early on, I realized, That Christ had to be the center, or at least this, you know, sometimes our, but we're on different pages. Sometimes they're a little bit closer to God. Sometimes we're closer to God. Sometimes we're on the same page, but I realized that if I was going to stick around in that marriage, I had to rely on the Lord. and then it, it got almost immediately better. Like when you're, when they're not the idol, when they're not the source, there's almost nothing you can't. Overcome. Yeah. That's good. I'm not that there wasn't a lot more things. There's always things, there's always gonna be new things. Yeah. Yeah. That's really good, Nikki, though, because I think that is a really common thing for people, especially I was going to say, especially if you come from the church, but maybe that's not true. Maybe that's just a common thing that girls feel is like, if when you get married, you know, I think that men on the other side of that feel like, for instance, if they have an addiction to pornography, it's like, Oh, once I get married, Then I'll, I won't have to deal with that anymore. Yeah. And like, that is a new, you know, people are like, Oh, that's not how it works. Yeah. Just kidding. I heard it described by a pastor one time. When you, as a man, when you get married, you think that you're going to get to, let me just say, if your kids are listening. This may not be a great episode, so I'm just going to put that We'll put a disclaimer too. pause it now. Um, but, uh, I heard a pastor once say that when you get married, you think that you're going to get to it's somehow you're going to be having sex with all women. But then after a while you realize you're, you're just having sex with this one woman forever. And then you're like, Oh, this is not what I thought was going to like, it's this really weird fulfillment thing. Right. Of like. Especially if you've been, you know, abstinent until then. But anyway, I thought that was, I'd never heard it put that way. And I was like, yeah, I guess I could totally see why, why guys would think that. But that's also a God sized hole. If you think about it, no, no women would be enough. A million women wouldn't be Definitely not. Wow. That's like a light bulb Yeah. Solomon showed I was just going to say that Aimee, I was like, and Solomon, God love him. freaking have thousands or 700, 700 wives and 300 concubines. I believe we were just discussing this in Bible study the other day. gross. Chad and I also got married young and we've said before on this podcast, like Well, I'm a huge proponent of getting married young. Not that there's anything wrong with waiting. There's not, there's not one right way, obviously, but I think that people people have this idea that they have to be super established. They have to really know themselves. They have to, they have all these requirements for what, what has to happen for them before they get married. And I think that Chad and I are growing up together and that in a sense makes it easier because if you're already. Quote unquote grown up and then you decide you're like, well now I'm ready to get married Then you have all these habits to break and all these ways of doing it. Like it's just I don't know so I Have always thought that that was a fun thing to have done gotten married young But the hardest year for us Hardest year for us I think Originally, I would say like year one or two, but then it was probably year eight when we had our twins. That year of having our twins was intense. First children, and there's two, I can't even imagine. you're like, I don't know what I'm doing. And also, I'm dying. we've been married for seven years, so we were very one sense, extremely established in our marriage, which was great. Um, there were lots, we weren't figuring marriage out at the same time as figuring parenting out. But at the same time, lost so much freedom in our marriage, obviously by having children so late. Um, which was not really our choice, but all that to say, yes, that was a hard Yeah. Yeah. And, And, I go back to saying marriage is just hard, guys. Year 8. It's just hard. That's why I hesitated to say like, it's getting better every year because in some respects, yes, it is. But to make it sound like we're smooth sailing. That is just not true. I think we can all agree. Like there's days, weeks, months where we're just, you know. Yeah. Not hittin each other right, and, Yeah. Well, you guys know. Yeah, you guys know there's been times I've gone weeping to you guys just because, you know, like you said, you're two sinners and you speak different languages, not only just different love languages, but male and female. You just, I think sometimes you're saying, just love me like I, you know, and again, when they're not able to love you in the way you feel like you need in the moment, it's easy to slip back into, it's always going to be like this. So I feel like. Um, for me, even though we've gone through like hard things that I think some people might even divorce over if they weren't believers or, you know, um, I, I definitely think we have issues like that in our marriage, but it's kind of like if you're able to see them as a child of God first, , and ask the Lord to give you eyes to see them as a child of God, then you're able to see them. With empathy and kindness and you know, like, I saw a real today. It was a Christian when I think, but it was like, if you approach your husband and speak to him like a fool, the fool will emerge. Like he will act like a fool, but if you speak to him like a king or like. Someone deserving of respect, that's who will emerge. And it was so funny because I never heard it said that way. And it's something I'm only learning like this year, if I'm coming to Scott and not giving him, if I'm not giving him respect. Then he is going to show up as the worst version of himself. And unfortunately it's like, whoever's the most mature person, you know, like is going to love, you're just kind of like, let it go, but you don't even have to look at it that way. You just, if you can look at them as a child of God, as someone deserving of. Your gentleness and your kindness and your patience, because you've been given that, because we have, Eternal levels of empathy, gentleness, kindness, patience, salvation, that can really turn the page. And you can do that at any moment. Like, let's say you're railing at your husband right now and you're listening to this and you're like, never. You can literally just stop right where you are and just be like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. He's deserving of as much empathy and kindness and gentleness because I am. and, and that being that we don't, we don't deserve it, but we get it. And so we can give it. and that's what I'm learning this year of marriage and the year that probably has been as hard as that year to year. Um, but I also love Scott more than I've ever loved him before. So I think when we, when we can see them with God's eyes, we love them with God's eyes and that's an infinite amount of love. So. I'm talking a lot today. I'm sorry, guys. you're good, you're it's I have a lot of tidbits. Yeah. I'm just like Reminds me of that of love and respect. Do you guys ever read love and respect? Uh, we started to, we started to, we didn't finish it, uh, we didn't love It so, I don't know. You guys feel, you'll have to fill me in. was when we were first getting married, there were like two or three books, people were like, you got to read this. And we read that one. And that for me has always been just an important, it's just, I don't even know if you have to read the whole book to get this. The whole thing is really simple. Women want love and men want respect. And as women, we like to give love. But one, the way that men hear love is really just respect and they like to give respect, but really the way we hear love is love. And so, yeah. And so, it's even something that like, sometimes I, I say to my girls and I, something I want to keep working on is just helping them understand that when they disrespect their daddy is a deep hurt. It is a, it is meaningful when they disrespect him. If they were unloving, it would be more like whatever, but when they disrespect him, it's, it hurts deeply., and so like I tell them, you know, Hey, did you know that when daddy, when you say daddy, I respect you, or you say yes, daddy, that's saying that's exact same thing as saying, I love you, daddy. yeah. And so anyway, that it was important for us, like in those first years, just to understand that kind of cycle of like love. Yeah, I think for me personally, and I don't know if Dawn would agree, the five love languages was super helpful for me in our marriage. Just learning that we speak very different, like Nikki was saying, very different languages and we're going to feel love differently. And I mean, Amy, like you're saying, the end result is we need to, both of us feel love. If someone's not feeling loved, they're going to be not their best selves. So, What are your guys love languages again? I forget. Like, how do you receive love and how do you give love? I think I, I do. I think I give and receive probably the same language, which is quality time. yeah, I knew you were quality time, Candace. that was one that's so funny because that was one of the like two or three and Chad and I both only read like half of it. Cause we were like, ah, whatever we just, I don't, there was something about it that just has never like been meaningful to us. I'm sure, I know it's true, but it's never solved the conversations about love languages have never really solved anything for us. It's other stuff that's been, that's solved cycles that we've been in. So I don't actually See? And so, yeah, different books for different folks. Yeah. Well, we tried reading Love and Respect and we were like, this is not speaking to us, so we didn't finish it. Yeah. I, I, like, I did it as a video series, Love and Respect, and the most thing, the, the thing I really took away with that is that there's a line they kept saying, you're stepping on my air hose, and it's a choke point, like, it's a choke point is what I, how I understand it. If you guys find yourself in a cycle of like craziness. Like I said, just stop, like you're probably on a choke point. He's probably feeling disrespected and you're probably feeling unloved. So a thousand times we can stop. And I, that is a principle that will take you far in marriage. Like it is not over. That is a lie from the enemy. When you hear it's over, it's not fixable. It's irredeemable. it is a thousand times not true. The Lord, you know. He leaves a 91 to follow the one. It's a principle in our marriage to like, no, if you're doing it wrong, if you're stepping on the air hose, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing, expecting different results. So if you're yelling at him, berating him, or if he's being unloving to you or whatever, XYZ, just stop. I have literally put my hand on Scott's chest and been like, okay, I'm sorry. I'm, I am being really disrespectful. I'm, I'm sorry. Like, I just feel really unloved right now. And you know, and it can take a little bit and this can take practice because if you're in a bad cycle of this, then again, whoever's more mature is going to let it down. But the goal is marriage oneness. Like you guys are on the same team, you're on the same page, like allow yourself to let down that guard and just be like, okay, that was bad. Can we just start over? can, can we just have a reset and, and just trust that you guys are on the same team. But that, that love and respect thing is what taught me that there are choke points. And when you see the choke point, just, just stop. You don't have to keep going in, in the choke point. But the love languages is hard for me because I'm a big love, words of affirmation person. So I need to hear, I love you and you're, you know, , yeah, lots of words. And you guys, you guys know my husband. And there's. Very few words. Yeah. And then of course, most guys, or I don't know if most guys, it's like touch plus something else or something else plus touch. But, you know, and I'm not really that much of a toucher, so I have to be very much like, I love you. I'm like pretending to pat the back here on the screen. Um, you know, be intentional about like touching and all that kind of stuff, but maybe touch is just something guys like in general. Oh We can only assume. One thing that, the three of us have like discovered over the course of our friendship, um, was the, the whole umbrella thing. And we may have talked about it on this podcast before, but it's worth talking about again, cause I think it's super good., but it's that whole idea that like in church. At least in our generation, most of us were taught that the husband is the head of the household. And so it's kind of like an umbrella with, like, the handle. And so the husband's the umbrella, and then the wife and the kids are, like, the handle underneath the umbrella. And God's, like, above the umbrella. But that doesn't make sense, and is not biblical. Yet here we are just living the husband's, the head of the household life. but it's actually an H, is that right, guys? Oh yeah. yeah, A ladder. Oh, I like that. A ladder. The ladder. rungs and you climb up that's adorable. But what's, what was crazy to me, climbing up the ladder to get, what was crazy to me about that was actually the way that it affects the kids, because in an umbrella model, no one has access to God, but the husband. Right? It's like this really weird, bizarro thing. But with an H, if you have one upstanding, I don't know how else to say that, upright, Line is the husband and you have another one that is the wife and then you have a line between them, which is the kids Everyone has access to God equally, but you're supporting each other and standing up together I've also seen it as an A, but I like H better because again A sort of cuts off access to God for the kids So anyway But I feel like that's a really important paradigm shift. Like, if you're in a household where you feel like somehow you are secondary in decision making or, like, we all have to take our responsibilities. You know, whoever's in charge of the finances, whoever's in charge of the doctor's appointments. Like, those roles lay differently at every marriage. But, I don't know. Yeah, I like it I think when I okay, let me see if I can articulate this well I think a lot of conservative Christian moms are proudly like, I, I'm a submissive wife and submit, submit, submit, submit. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And I, I don't know, for me that correlates with the umbrella or the ladder. I think in a healthy marriage we're partners and that doesn't mean that God will never call us to submit for, you know, something, but I also think that doesn't mean he's not, he doesn't have to be the breadwinner. I know healthy marriages where the wife is the breadwinner. He doesn't have to be in charge of, I don't know, there's no like set rules, like, oh, well he should be the breadwinner and he should be in charge of the finances and he should be in charge of all the major decisions. Okay, well what are, what, what qualifies a major decision, like, I struggle with that overall blanket statement of like a good wife is good Christian wife is submissive and I'm like, what, what does that mean? Mean. Exactly. And I am just not sure that articulates well God's heart for his daughters. We don't need to go through our husbands to get to him, for sure. And I don't think that there's one way that a marriage could or should operate. I think that's unfair and unkind and just not God's heart for us. I think, like, better language would be, like, headship. And I think, even before we started, we were talking about some conflict I'm having. And Amy said, I would lean into what Scott said about it, or you said something about it. Like, I was thinking about sending, you a message to somebody and , you know, it's more about being on the same page, being in agreement, like when we're in agreement, we can move forward. And, and I think that's the better language. And, and I think it has to go both ways. If you're like, Honey, I don't think we should do this. There's probably going to be consequences if he moves forward without your blessing and vice versa. I know we could. talk about this I know we could. I know we can't talk forever. I just think the best, I think the best way to put it is we're, we're teammates. You know, I wouldn't make any major decision without talking to my husband. That'd be crazy. And I would like to hope the same from him. I mean, I do know that he wouldn't do that. It's just, it's mutual respect. I think if we're partners, then we're doing life together. And I'm not, and I, and God has called me to submit certain things to my husband. So I'm not saying that's not ever a thing. Um, that come from that verse that husbands submit to your wives? And, and, I mean, wives submit to your husbands and husbands love your wives. And so it's this idea, ha ha ha, it's this idea, like, they're the authority and then they just have to be loving back to you. But I think that submits, Language. I'd have to go do a word study and I've studied this before. I think we all have, but that submit language I think has to do with the respect piece. It's, it's really just a verse about this love and respect cycle of like, you need to be, treat your husband respectfully. That's, that's what he needs. Cause he's a man. You need love, right? But it's not like a submit, like, I don't know. Anyway. not like a subservient No, and that's not God's heart for your, yeah. I've seen that again, like in fun, like more fundamentalist, ways of operating and maybe it feels like it works, but I, it would not work for me. I, I, and, and we see from scripture that God affirms women and yeah, I like this agreement and respect. Yeah. I like the rung. like that too. up. moving on up. Yeah. I had so many more thoughts, but now my mind just went blank. I had like 10 more thoughts. I mean, marriage is, yeah, like a long, a long, long thing. We could just go on and on What's one thing that you guys, do well in your marriage, whether, whether you have always done it well, or you just learned to do it well. Hmm. you know, I'm going to say, um, This came to me and I feel really confident in saying it. I think in our marriage, we parent really well together. I think we tackle parenting well and, yeah. I'm trying to think if there's other, like how else to articulate guys do. You guys definitely have a lot of oneness in that, and I love that, I like to watch Yeah, I, I, it's a huge, gosh, blessing for me. At any time, like we can be in one of those, you know, really nasty arguments or, you know, you just don't like each other and you're like, I need to learn to like you again and it doesn't matter if we have to discipline the kids or come together or something on the kids. Like that gets set aside so that we can handle the kids and then later we'll come back and, you know, fix the him and me thing. That's good. That's a skill. for us, it's that. It is a skill. for us it's that, that quickness to turn around. You know, that, the awareness of like, we're in a bad moment. And the, I guess humility? To be like, not so hard. because we're both really pig headed, strong people. But I feel like something we've learned to do really well is to put that down. And it's, it's literally saved our marriage to be like, I'm right. I'm right. And like, it's okay. We're nobody has to be right. let's love each other. And I don't know. I really love that about our marriage that we could just in the middle of a huge fight, turn around and stop That is good. That is because that is, it's like the least edifying thing of marriage. Just the ridiculous arguments. Because sometimes if you just stop and you, if you had an out of body experience and watched yourself in an argument, you'd be like, you're so Stupid. Stupid. It You're being stupid. Yeah. Yeah. So the ability to stop, that's really Why are you arguing about this? It happens to me all the time. Like the next day you're like, why were we even arguing about that? That was so dumb. yeah, I actually think, I think that we, I was going to say argue well, but I actually think more than that, we communicate well, we were long distance for a long time. And so, uh, it really forced us to learn how to communicate. And we, and we had lots of big arguments before marriage. and so while we've certainly had seasons of, you know, arguing and things like that, it has not been a strong characteristic in our marriage to argue a lot. because I think we just learned to communicate. so yeah, yeah, it is a huge blessing. Hmm. And honestly, I'm going to give props to Chad on that one because I, no offense to all the men and the husbands out there. I think women learn to communicate early and men struggle with it for much longer. So props to Chad Yeah. to learn to communicate well. Yeah, sometimes, um, I'll hear stories of you know, like we have people in our family that, you know, you're like, do you guys just never, you should never talk to each other. You know, you'll be having two different conversations with two different spouses. And you're like, how, I thought, why am I, can you guys go get on the same page and then come back to us? You know? And Chad and I are always like, why is that a thing for people? It just, it doesn't, it doesn't, it's just not part of our marriage to like not talk to each other or not get to Aligned. Yeah. That's a huge blessing. Yeah. think that's great. I love it. the moral of the story. we love marriage. We do. it's hard. It's hard Yeah. there's no hating us here. These are just our Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I feel like this is just more like we talked about divorce last week and this is like, Hey, marriage is hard. Here's some stuff we've learned. I mean, we love it, but it's hard. I, I have, we have so much, I have so much more I could say, but I feel like, I know we need to wind up because we're getting close to our end time, but maybe we'll let's do this. Let's give one. Cause I have a piece of advice that I really want to give because it's so ridiculous, but Chad and I are like, it's like, we're like evangelists on this particular advice. So what, what's like one thing you would say to anyone in marriage, whether it's their first year, their 20th year, Well, now I want to hear yours first down with that. I know! It's probably the same. Is it laughing? Cause we, Scott, Scott always tries to make me laugh. Like if I am really stuck, Scott will do something really stupid to make me laugh. Like he'll make the, like, we'll be in the worst fight, and then he'll just like hug me until I, Like he'll just keep hugging me and I'll be like stiff as a board and then he just won't let go. And then I like deflate. Or he'll just you know, smack my butt or like, he'll just say something funny. He's really good at diffusing it. And I feel like laughter, laughter is what's a cheerful heart is good medicine. So if you could find, if somehow, if somebody is good at that, if you could capitalize on it and if you can allow it, you really can laugh yourself out of anything. That's mine. that is good, laughter, alright, I still want to hear Amy's, I know! Okay, you've heard it before. Okay, so Chad and I discovered that which is very true, and it can be very, very true for a lot of marriages. The top three things are like money, sex, and what's the third thing? Reason people divorce or, The in laws? third thing. Could be! I, I don't know. I have great in laws, so, Leave and cleave, y'all. leave and cleave, Um, that is actually really important though, leave and cleave, That's a super if you're the beginning We're throwing so much. We're throwing so much out. Okay. But, Sex is one of those really top things people end up arguing about a lot. And it's, it's a And it really comes down to communication. And women often feel bombarded by the idea that men often feel like, well, the heck, why not? There's all those jokes about like, oh, I have a headache or like my sweatpants already on, or like, you know, it's, it's a very common thing. So Chad and I found a lot of our. Discontentment was coming from this particular topic the when of it right and so Finally one night. I was like, I'll make you a deal. what if what if every other night is each other's night? what if one night it's my night and I get to choose what goes on TV and whether or not I feel like having sex And then the other night is your night. You get to choose what goes on TV and whether or not we're having sex. And every other night, I will know to be mentally prepared that that is on the table. And every other night, you'll be mentally prepared to know it's probably off the ha ha Cause it almost always is. be. On my night. Cause I'm tired. Right, bro? He's tired. You have twins! but at this point, that's not even a good excuse. I'm just, I'm a mom and I work, right? That's enough. so we've been doing that now for a long time. And it's, it's solved so many, so much of the tension because there was, it was never a question anymore. even when I'm tired, I'm like, okay, let's do this thing because I know it's his night and I was mentally prepared for it. And on the, on the night, he's not getting rejected all the time. Right. It was just a very, it's been a great system. There's my piece of advice. It's very specific. There's Okay. have told us I know. I know. I did know that one. I don't know why it didn't pop into my head. It's hard to give one piece of advice. Like what is the one piece of advice? What is the one, the one most important piece of advice? I, if I had to pick just one and there's so many, it would, it would be obviously Jesus. keep him in the middle of everything. that was deep. Your marriage, in the middle of everything you do. But I feel like that's a cop out, you guys gave way more practical advice. Dang it, that's the best one. it's definitely the best No, that's the best one. That was good. I can't believe we didn't think about it. Oh, I want to change mine. Pray for your husband. That's my piece of It's too late. you're stealing mine. It's way better advice. Oh The Lord reigns. That's mine. Oh my Oh, and on that note, hate us. You won't hate any of this. But you're gonna love us. Pray for your husband. Have sex a lot. ha There's, Nikki's parting words. Love your husband, have sex, goodnight! Ha