S3, E5: Top Lessons in Business with Tech North Advocate Co-Founder Naomi Timperley

Naomi Timperley is Co-Founder of Tech North Advocates and We Are GSI Ltd. She’s proud to be in the top 50 Computer Weekly Most Influential Women in UK IT 2018, 2019, 2020, 3rd most influential woman in 2021 and 4th in 2022. Naomi is an experienced growth and innovation consultant and has extensive experience working with start-ups & growth businesses, particularly in the tech, digital & creative sectors. 

Naomi has been a mentor for 10 years and has mentored hundreds of businesses. She is an Honorary Industry Fellow at the University of Salford Business School and on the board of the Industry Advisory Board. Naomi also sits on the board of Charity Digital Inc, VocalEyes CIC and Social Enterprise PIE. She is a Growth Partner for Inspirent’s Manchester Growth Club and the Innovation Director of Merseyway Innovation Centre in Stockport. 

Naomi shares her inspirational story of her journey as an entrepreneur and how she once turned down investment following her pitch on the popular BBC Dragons' Den TV series.  

Get ready to be inspired…..5-4-3-2-1. 

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Connect with Naomi Timperley:

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Email: naomi@technorthadvocates.com

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Click here to purchase a copy of The Momentum Mindset Book by Vicki Main and Jonathan S.Bean.

Transcript

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We talked about communication quite a lot today. We've also talked about surrounding yourself with people, finding your tribes of people that are going to support you, champion you, listen to you. Try not to be scared. Do things that scare you. Make sure you if you are starting a business or exploring it, make sure you do your research. Make sure you do your homework. Keep learning. I think you never stop learning. Welcome two the Get Unstuck Fast Viscosity podcast, brought to you by VLM training and coaching specialists across the UK and Australia, hosted by me, Vicki Maine. Are you a business owner, leader, or executive? Have you ever felt stuck or disappointed where your life or business is heading? Do you ever feel overwhelmed, compare yourself to others or feel like you're swimming in treacle at times? This podcast is here to help you get unstuck fast from viscosity to achieving escape velocity and expanding your knowledge. Our guests on the shore will share practical tips and real life experience about how they got out of negative situations or circumstances to live their best life on their terms. We will be sharing real life stories from real people doing some incredible things. Stay tuned for our next guest. Welcome to season three, episode five of The Get unstuck fast, Viscosity podcast. I'm your host, Vicki Maine, and today we have a very special guest, Naomi Timpley, in the podcasting Zoom Studio today. Hi. Welcome, Naomi. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me. It's a real pleasure. Now, I know your bio. There's lots of incredible things that you've been up to in there, but I know you're co founder of Tech North Advocates, you are a growth partner for Inspiring Manchester Growth Club and innovation director of Merseyway Innovation Center in Stockport as well. And you're also in the Top 50 Computer Weekly most influential women in the UK. And you've been voted several times, which I know we'll talk about later, but it's fantastic to have you on the show today. And I know we've known each other for, gosh, more than a decade now, probably a long time now, and I've watched your career flourish, and it's really great to have you on the show. So thank you for coming. Tell us a bit more about your career journey and what you're doing now. So I've had a number of different careers. My first career was in the travel industry. So when I was at school, I wasn't particularly academic. And when it came to going to college, I picked the most interesting course that I thought travel with that. So I picked travel studies and I became a travel agent. So I was a travel agent for Lumcolly back in the day for about three years. Then I worked for Balkan holidays in London. Reservations. That was like booking holidays directly with the public, but also with travel agents. And then I worked in Bulgaria for two years. So I did two summers as a. Rep and then two winters basically as a ski bum. And then whilst I was working overseas, my mum moved up north, so I was probably about 20, 24, 25 when she moved up north. And because I used to come home in between seasons, I ended up staying here and I then got into recruitment. So I worked in tech recruitment in the late 90s for a company called Rulion. So started off as a resource and ended up as an account manager and then came out of that and helped set up a travel recruitment company. Did that for about a year and in between I'd got married, I got pregnant and I took four years out to have my two daughters. My mum always said to me, if you can afford it, take as much time as you can. And we were in a very fortunate position that we could do that. So I was a stay at home mom for four years, loved every minute of it. And then one day, whilst I was researching party ideas for my daughter, my eldest one, I came across an events. Company that was in 27 cities across. America called Babe Loves Disco. And essentially it was exactly what it said on the can. It was for parents and kids from six months to seven years. The founders would take over a nightclub in the day, at the weekend and do it for parents and kids with a DJ playing classic disco. So there was no, like, Bob the. Build or anything like that. And I saw it on the internet, I thought, oh, that just looks amazing. And I contacted them on a whim in January of 2007 and said, have you thought about bringing it to UK? Told them a little bit about myself. So I'd done a lot of organizing. Bits and pieces as a rep, but. Also, I think, being a mum, I think women multitask anyway. And, yeah, I basically just said I'd love to bring it to Manchester. And they emailed me back the next day and said, look, somebody did try and do it. A Sky News presenter had come over to New York and basically not taken their bram, copied it and hadn't worked out. They said, look, if you want to do it, you've got to do it in London and Manchester. So I did. So we launched in September of 2007 at the Clapham Ground in London, in the heart of Nappy Valley, and then also in Manchester. Within two years, we were in nine cities across the UK. We had a TV advertiser album with. Universal licensed, still with butlins some amazing sponsors and I learned so much. So the BBC approached us and one of the American business partners came over and we did Dragons Den in 2008, got offered investment by Deborah Medium to turn it down because, usual story, there. Wasn'T too much equity and whatever and. That sort of led me onto the path that I'm on now. After that I obviously had the events company, I did that for about four years, but essentially it didn't make loads of money. It was brilliant and it was really good fun, but when it comes down to broadcast, it didn't make lots of money. I started getting involved with women's entrepreneurship and youth entrepreneurship and started speaking at things and telling the Dragons Den story, I suppose, and came away from the events company. So I sold my shares to our. Scottish host Mum, and she was running. It until last year actually, so a long time. And I set up a youth enterprise and employability company with a guy called Katama Kwana and Saban Mohammed called Enterprise Lab, which is still going. It was basically to bridge the gap between education, employment and enterprise. And a lot of it was around that entrepreneurial thinking, that's how I got to meet you. Because we did some work at Gateshead College and we worked with schools, colleges, universities, but also councils and things like. That, and did that for about two. And a half years. I came away from it purely because Katan was going into a different direction to what I wanted to go into and I've been consulting ever since. So what do I do now? I do a number of different things, I wear a number of different hats, but essentially I work with tech, digital and creative startups and scale ups. So I've been doing that for about. Twelve years now and I probably mentored in the region. It's got to be nearly 500 businesses. Now, whether they were startups or scale ups. I've designed and delivered award winning entrepreneurship programs to the private and public sector. What else have I done? Obviously I've got co founded Technical Advocates. Which is part of a much bigger. Thing, so it was born out of London, but it's now global and essentially I support Rushaw and support the other tech advocate leaders in the UK outside. Of London, so that's really good fun. I also have another consultancy called GSI, which I run with a guy called. Vkashar and essentially most of that is. Actually mentoring and coaching founders, but we also have a consultancy side of the business. I'm really passionate about helping people with ideas, so I am designed, Sprint trained, so if we had a client that came to us and said, look, we're thinking about creating new products or services, I can help them with that process. And that's something that I really love doing. So I do lots of things, I. Sit on a couple of boards as well. A lot of them are around digital skills but also women in tech. And yeah, massive honor to be in the shortlist again this year for the. Computer Weekly most influential women in tech. So that's really exciting. So lots and lots of things. I think everyone's got there's a great book actually called Squiggly careers and I. Think most people don't have one career. Now, they have multiple careers. I would say I'm a generalist and actually there's a brilliant book as well called The Generalist. If anyone feels that you like that. And that is a really good skill, to have lots of different skills and be able to support people in lots of different ways. So, yeah, that's pretty much me. Fantastic. So, wow. I mean, as I said earlier, you've got so much depth and breadth of knowledge and expertise in different industries as well. And I guess because you love doing various different things. What do you do outside of work? How do you relax? Do you like to just chill while you're juggling all these things? Do you find much time to relax at weekends or whenever? Do you know what? I'm not very good at relaxing. I had a massage yesterday and talked the entire time through it. I'm not very good at relaxing. It's really bad. We love traveling and really lucky that I can go on holiday a few times a year. I have a really amazing group of friends. One thing I do once a year. Is I go snowboarding. That's a real passion of mine, even though I'm pretty rubbisher. I was going to say I don't go to the gym. I hate gyms. I love walking. I could walk for hours and hours and hours. I love walking, but I just like. Spending time with people. Yeah, that's amazing. And also, you're a mom of two wonderful young women and who are thriving in their own careers and what a great advocate and role model for your daughters as well, and seeing what you've been doing and yeah, it's great. So let's get on to what's the toughest thing you find being in business? Other people. You know what, when I first started working for myself, which was the events company, I think people it's like dog. Eat dog out there. I'm always trying to help people, support. People and kind, but I had people rip off my website when it was Babel or Cisco and basically plagiarize the whole thing as if they were doing it and they didn't even do anything. Loads of things. It was bizarre. A couple of things I would also say is surround yourself with people that will help you grow and support you. I'm a massive fan of mentoring, but I've also got mentors myself, so I've got people that I can bounce ideas off and call on for support. But yeah, I would say the biggest thing was people. Yeah, I think I know my business journey's been mainly in Australia and I can totally resonate with what you're saying around loving doing different things. As you know, I was a DJ back in the day in Australia and funny enough, I got in the decks last weekend, had a few friends around and I jumped on them just to have a little play and I thought I missed this, but it wouldn't be something I would do as a business. Again, I think it's just something that's there in the background, but yeah, I think I'm sorry to hear you've had challenges like that, but I guess everyone's business journey different, but I think maybe they just don't talk about it. That's the thing. And maybe they play down those things, but they're also what is it to say? Grow through what you go through. And I found go on. I get that. But I think for me, it's also like going into business with people that. Have taken advantage because I've got a. Really good kind nature. I have had lots of people take advantage of me. I'm not afraid to admit that. I think if it's been a learning. Curve, it's made me much stronger, but. It'S also made me very cynical. Yeah. Do you think after having gone through those experiences, to see the best in people is always a great trait to have? But because you've had that experience, do you think there's something in the back of your mind that always goes, hang on. Let's do a sanity check here and check in with yourself and make sure that before you go making those decisions, yes, you might think because I know I do. Do you know what you'd think? At my age? I'm 52 tomorrow, same versus Princess Anne. Just thought I'd add that in. I'm still learning. I am still learning. I still get people excuse me, French, that fuck me over and still have. People that haven't been the kindest. But I think I'm not going to change the way I am. I still need to be careful. But I think it's also about doing your due diligence. And I wish, just looking back on it, that I'd done more due diligence. But I'm in a good place at the moment. Fantastic. Well, that's good to hear. So what's the best thing you love about being your own boss and having. The variety that you do, that you have? I never get bored. I look forward to Mondays. I never get the Monday blues. I'm never like person that just wants to finish early on a Friday. I love what I do. I'm really lucky that I get to do lots of different things. I've just taken, like a one day a week role, which is the innovation director role. It's like a part time but employed position. And that's been really lovely because I did dip my toe into employment before. Lockdown and it was a horrific experience. And this has been an absolute pleasure. I've loved every minute of it. And the team have been so welcoming. And I literally hop, skip and jump to stopport every Wednesday or Thursday. I really enjoy it. I literally really enjoy it. I think you can tell that in my voice. Yeah. I think that just because I do lots of different things and I don't take anything on it if I can't. Dedicate the time to it, but so. All the boards that I'm involved in. All things that I'm passionate about yeah. And that's great to hear. And let's talk about the Tech North advocates as well because you've been part. Of that and I know some people. In Newcastle where I originally grew are part of that whole ecosystem as well. Tell us a bit more about Tech North advocates and why you got involved in the first place as a co founder. Yes. So essentially, Rust had started tech. London advocates. The Tech London Advocates as it sits. Now has 16,000 people that advocate tech. And essentially what does being a tech advocate mean? Essentially it's like assisting, champion and connecting. And we get involved with other events, we don't really hold our own events, all the advocates look very different way. The guy that I run it with is a guy called Volker Hirsch. He used to be an angel and venture investor. He now works for Medical Catapults in olderly Edge. And essentially when Russ came up to Manchester because he was looking at setting. Up something in the north, we were. Sat next to each other and we'd met a few times at a couple of events and we are very much. Connectors and Russ said if anyone wants. To get involved, the license is a pound. And I said to Volka, I said. Oh, have you got 50 pay? We just did it. And you know what, it's been an. Amazing community to be part of, opportunities wise. It's given me lots of opportunities as it has with Volca, but also it's given a voice to the north. We've got a seat at the table and obviously, yes, there's loads of other northern initiatives which and they all get seats at the table as well. But this is a very special one. And the fact that now global tech advocates, there are in total about 20,000 business leaders, experts and investors who volunteer their time to campaign for the betterment of the global tech industry. I know if I've got a business. That I'm connected to or a founder that I'm connected to who perhaps needs. To speak to somebody in Singapore, I. Can make that connection and they can make that connection to their wider world. We've got Tech, Australia. We've got Berlin, Nigeria. Ghana, Spain. Bogota, Florida. The Bay area. Canada, Iceland. In Scotland. We've got Belfast, obviously. The North West London, Wales, Italy, Nordic, emerging Europe, Korea, China. China's got four different advocates. So it's literally a real global community and it's really very special. They also have several working groups. The Women in Tech they've got obviously GTA black Women in Tech london advocates Women in Tech which I sit on the board of Ta International Women in Tech Growth program which is Tech nordic Advocates Netherlands Advocates they've got a diverse. Founders program, an accelerator. So it's a really fantastic community. And I have been able to meet really incredible people, but they also campaign. There's reports and insights that they've done a really big campaign recently around the Chip making sure that we're doing a lot more sort of semiconductor work in the UK. A voice for Ukrainian startups Tech for Diversity reports UK India Tech roundtables and. Actually it's the twelveTH anniversary of Tech. London Advocates and GTA in September. Lots to celebrate as well. They do a lot of work, they do a lot of work and because. It'S private sector led that they can have a voice. Do you understand what mean? Absolutely, absolutely. And what would you say is your biggest frustration with the tech space in tech industry in the UK and beyond what you've seen so far, working with several technology based businesses and also beyond, what would you say is your biggest frustration in that? Well, based in the north it's still. Very difficult to get investment, so we're. Still having to go down to London, et cetera. It's ridiculous. And there's definitely still that north south. Divide, it's closing but it's still got. A big gaping gap, do you know what I mean? People still think that there's nothing north of Watford and I'm really entrenched into what's going on in Leeds as well. Leeds is an incredible community and obviously Manchester and Lancashire and the Greater North, Cumbria et cetera, and obviously great things happening in Newcastle. It frustrates me. A guy that I know called Antonio Tombani. He runs Tech Week. Humber. So there's a big tech community in Humberside. Who would have known? I'm sure people in London don't know. I think it's still really important that. Actually there's lots of work going on. To make sure that we've got those investment pockets in the north, but it's still very difficult. And I know founders that having to go to the Middle East, go to the States, go to London, when actually I know we've not got HS Two yet, but it's still from Manchester to London, the quickest train is like 2 hours nine minutes, it's not that far, do you know what I mean? So I think there's still that frustration but also some really amazing businesses up here and amazing universities, great talent. I think I would just like to see a shout out a bit about it, a little bit more and more storytelling around it. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well it's great to hear more about what you've been doing in that space because you should be shouting about it because you're doing a great job and also elevating brands out there who might not have had that exposure prior and might not know about these things. And the irony is, being technology based, you'd think having all this tech now would be so well connected. And yes, we are to a certain extent, but it's still there's a lot of noise out there and it's getting to the core face of what that startup or that business might need to help them grow as well. Yeah, I think that there are lots. Of really good business support programs out there as well. There's lots of help for founders and scale up government initiatives, but also private initiatives. I think one of the reasons inspire who have been supporting businesses in Scotland. For the last 35 years, they saw. Manchester as a really big growth area. We started the Manchester Growth Clubs specifically. For that reason that actually businesses do need support. But I'm a big fan of peer to peer support. So having a program, but also having a peer to peer network that you can say, do you know what? This week everything's a bit shit. I think it's okay to say that. It's okay to say that everything's not okay. Americans are brilliant at talking about their failures. We're not so good at doing that and I think it's good to talk about them. Yeah, you've raised a great point and that's a good segue to talk about mindset. And you've worked with several large brands and small startup companies and growing business owners. What do you think is the major thing that stops them from growing their business? Is it a fear around? Is it a mindset thing or what is it? I know you mentioned you alluded to lack of funding earlier, but when it comes to mindset, can you see some common things from talking to these founders about what could be holding them back in any way? So a lot of people that I've mentored, it's been confidence and believing in themselves. I think also as well, surrounding yourself with like minded people that can champion you but also pull you back down to basics. I think we touched on funding before. I respect those businesses that have bootstrapped. Most people think, oh yeah, I'm going to have a tech business, I'm going to go straight for funding. You don't always need to do that. I think it's important to really think about, okay, people don't do enough research when they're going into setting up a business and there's so much homework that you need to do before you even press the button anywhere. And that's the frustration of me. But I think the mindset thing, most. Of the people that founders that I meet, it's about believing in themselves and. Having that inner confidence. But there's a lot of risk with. Setting up, it's having that leap of faith. And I think people are scared of it. They're really scared. It took me on my own journey because I guess I was an entrepreneur working in education, and it took me move to Australia, like ten years ago now, or nine and a half years ago. It took me to move to Australia to set up my first business. And that kind of happened by default. It was an education consultancy business and then it led on from there. But I think it was the initial almost jumping out of an airplane and doing it. But, yeah, I think confidence is a huge thing. And I talk a lot about the impostor syndrome as well in the work that I do, and I'm speaking generally here, fortune practice is that a lot of people are very much they'll say things to themselves and they're more critical of themselves than they would be of anybody else. And I think it's actually changing the narrative and believing that they can do something. I think you hit the nail on the head before about surrounding yourself with positive people who can help you along the way as well, and not just people who want to blow smoke up there and be a sense of realism as well. But I totally agree with what you're saying there. What are you fearful of, Naomi? Probably quite a few things. I speak at a lot of events and I obviously do lots of workshops and I'm always like, oh, God, I. Hope everyone's going to like the workshop. And they're going to learn something. I'm always that person that thinks about the person that thinks the worst case scenario of everything. So I think the worst possible case things happen and it always surprises me when it doesn't. I suppose, fearing that things are going to go wrong, but I'm very adaptable, so things can go wrong, but I can adapt to that. I think the word agile, I am agile. I think I've had loads of scenarios where I've had to think on my feet and think, okay, this isn't going. To work, I'm have to do it a different way. So, yeah, I suppose that's the fear of failure, isn't it? And not being able to do things in the right way. And I suppose this sounds a bit cheesy if I think back to when I was at school and I was talking to my friends about this on. Saturday when I was at school, I. Wore glasses, I was very thin, very tall, had big clown feet just to get people take the mickey out of me. I wasn't bullied or anything, but certainly I was always like that classroom clown and didn't have that confidence. And I still feel like Naomi, when. I was 1415 now, and I have to kick myself if people meet me now, they were like, oh, yeah, you would never have been like that. And even my friends were like, yeah. I can't say that. And I was like, if you'd have. Known me when I was that age. I'm not the Naomi. And obviously we mature. Even the Naomi that I was when. I was 20 and 30 is very. Different to how I am now. So, yeah, I suppose this sounds really cheesy. I want people to like me and. Yeah, I'm not afraid to say that. Yeah, when I was at school, I was incredibly shy and I was the girl geek. I was head girl at school, chess champion and very academic. You wouldn't think that I like to be the life and soul of a party and have fun and do all those things, but as a young person, I was very shy. And in fact, my fear, as I've thought about as I've gone along through my career, was about fear of being seen and put myself out there. So obviously, going into a teaching role, I guess it led me to spread my wings and give me the sort of license to be on, do what. I love and being a performer. So going from being incredibly shy and I can remember doing Alice in Wonderland, and I was a rabbit at the age of about seven, and I remember standing on stage crying, like, just freezing and crying, going and I hated it. And then I had to do this judo competition and where I had to go and fight a kid and wrestle with this kid. At the time, I didn't like violence, I didn't like any of that. So I stood there and just cried and ran off. My mum went, Get back. He told me to toughen up and get back in there. And I was like, I can't do it. And I cried, like, all the way home. Just was such a shy kid. If someone had said anything to me, I would have just cried. I was really shy. Whereas I think over the years, you learn to embrace who you are, but I think I've gone the other way. I love reading, I love academia, I love learning new knowledge, but I also love being on that stage shy. I wasn't seen. And I think for me, it's like when you see TV shows like Ugly. Betty and stuff like that, I was like Ugly Betty. I had these big Elton Johnson glasses. I've got one ear that's bigger than. The other, so they were always wonky. I had really bad haircuts, I looked close. But show pictures of the people to you now because glasses are cool now. Oh, God, yeah, these glasses are so cool. I was like, oh, my God. I just felt like an absolute idiot. But going back to academia, I went to university when I was 44. Back in the day, it was like, it was CSEs and O levels. I didn't even do O levels. I did CSEs and then did some. Retakes for math and English. Still got DS. And then I went to college and obviously did this travel course. But, yeah, I went to university when I was 44 and I started a master's in digital marketing communications, because I. Was quite interested in it very part time. I lasted a year. I ended up with a postgrad certificate and graduated, which I was very, very proud of, and it was really emotional. And I actually do a lot of work with universities now. I love universities, absolutely love them, and I wish more businesses would work with them. Yeah, I didn't. Go to uni. I went second time round because actually, I was too busy enjoying myself in Newcastle, like, from the age of about 18 onwards. That period of time, I discovered, like, clubbing and various just going out, enjoy myself. I didn't go to uni till I was 28 and then I led me to teaching, but I was at the. Stage where I was ready. And not everybody is ready to go to uni at 18. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I agree with that. Which is why I think traveling is so good at that age, to be able to go and do some traveling experiences as well, because that's as much, if not more of a learning experience at that age to do that. So, yeah, it's interesting. As you know, I recently wrote a book with Jonathan Bean called The Momentum Mindset and it's all about how to overcome your inertia and lead an incredible life. Now, this is through my coaching and experiences of working with other people, and everybody has different levels of what an incredible life would look like to them and different levels of success. But tell me, for you, have you had a time where you've had to get out of your own inertia or a time in your life where you've had to really dig deep and get that resilience and go, look, this is just a thing I'm going through and it's going to get better. Any tips for listeners who are experiencing their own inertia and want to get out of it? To live an incredible life, whatever that is to them? Lots of times I had a massive wobble when I was about 44, actually, the same year that I went to university, which was a bit stupid. I was diagnosed with severe depression, took. Medication, and I've been on and off it. And I'm back on it again now because I've had a really quite traumatic. Couple of years with a situation that I've been going through which I can't really go into. And, yeah, I think resilience has been the thing that's got me through it. Apart from the antidepressant and a lot. Of wine, has been really hard. And I think I've just been able. To make sure that I have that support around me, ask for help when. I need it, but also that inner strength. And it's really hard because I'm menopausal now, I get tired all the time, I'm emotional, all of that crap. Trying to do that and have a. Business is very, very hard. It's really hard. So, yeah, I think finding that inner strength, I don't know where I get it from, but, yeah, it's there. I have to pull it out every so often. Do you know, it's funny, I've read two articles this weekend and they were both along the lines of saying out loud and sharing, it's okay to not be okay and actually be on medication for feeling depressed or having anxiety, whatever that may be. And I know I've been through periods of my life when I lost a child between both my children where I went through a period of depression and it was grief led and other times in my life that I look back now and go, gosh, if I hadn't have gone through those times, it wouldn't have made me who I am now. And even going through divorce, that's another podcast episode for another time, which I'll not go into now, but divorce given when you think you're high achieving and you like to win in life and achieve, then divorce felt like failure for me. But actually learn from failure when kids. Are involved, I think it's very challenging. And I don't speak about those things because it's just a time in my life where I had to grow through what I went through. But I think it's really important that we share the narrative around if you're not feeling great and medication is not a bad thing, it shouldn't be a dirty word in terms of going to seek help. Because if anything, it just regulates and. Helps you get 100% not feel, as. I suppose, up and down, but it can just help. Sometimes you can go and get some support from a psychologist or a counselor and you can eat all the right foods. You can minimize, like alcohol. You can go to the gym. But if you're still not feeling great sometimes, be some medical interventions. It's just fact. Yeah, I agree with you. I do think therapy is good, but you've got to be in the right mindset to have therapy. So I will have therapy after I've gone through all the things that I'm doing, but it's not the right time. For me to do that yet because it's still going on and I'm dealing. With it at the moment. But I think yeah, just going back to I did a post on LinkedIn about it's okay to say that you're not okay because people asking me all the time because they know what's going. On at the moment and I'm not okay. And I'm not going to say that I'm fine when I'm not. Yeah, and I think I know obviously you don't necessarily want to go into the details of what's happening, but I think when you are in the public eye and you are, I suppose, exposed to external factors and things that can happen, I think there can be things that can happen there anyway. People will read between the lines who listen to show and know what's going on. But I really hope soon that what you're going through gets resolved and you can really start to move forward with things with your life. Thank you. Let's talk about leadership and teams. Now, I know you said earlier about people around working with businesses, and it's the people that can be challenging on the past. Tell us about common mistakes that you've seen business leaders make or making business or working in corporate teams, what are the common mistakes that they make and what have you seen that could really enhance leadership and support business growth? Yes. I think one of the biggest thing is that lack of communication. Not speaking to your team and communication. I would say the biggest thing when I've worked with, especially around things like obviously the day to day, but also things are at. If you think about values and stuff. Like that, you can create your values. As a founder, but then when it. Comes to your staff, living and breathing them, unless it's like stuff that's happening. Constantly, communication, values, knowing what you stand. For as a business, what your mission is, what your vision is I think. That should just come off the tongue. Of anyone who works in the business, if they believe in it. And that doesn't matter whether you've got a big enormous business or you've got a small business. So I'm doing a workshop in a couple of weeks which is all around communication. So actually how you can do it's called an effective communication contract. So tailoring communication styles for employee engagement because actually people communicate in different ways. So there's a great thing that I'm. A big fan of called IMA. And IMA stands for identify, modify and adapt your communication style. So you've obviously got all those sort of psychological tests that you can do. This is a little bit like that and you've got high red, you've got high blue and high green and they all mean different things. So for me, communication is the glue. That holds the world together. But it also is what holds businesses. Together, families together, friendships, groups together. If you don't communicate well, people get. Misconstrued, people start, especially around workplaces, that's when things can go wrong and you get those toxic environments. So for me, for example, I'm in. What'S called a high yellow. So I'm gregarious, optimistic, fun loving, friendly and I can be a risk taker. I've got good persuasive skills and can. Be a dreamer, involve others in my dreams. For example. I've got highly skilled at influencing others and uses ability to shape my environment. To accomplish results, open and assertive. So that's the way that I want to be communicated. Compared to say, somebody who is a. High green, the high green is someone who's very detailed, focused. So generally like a software developer would. Generally be a high green, but they. Might have traits of a high yellow. Solicitors, accountants, people that are very detailed, focused. So me as Naomi, the high yellow, I've got to adapt my communication style. Because if I go in like jazz. Hands the way that I usually am and start speaking to a software developer. I'm going to scare the shit out of them. So I do think communication is a really big thing and about getting that right and there are loads of things. That you can put into place for doing it. But also going back to values, people can have big long mission and vision statements. But does it mean anything when you're employing people? Have they got the same values as you, as the company? And what do those values stand for? And how does that spread into what the customers see, what your employees see? Do you know what I mean? Why are they doing what they're doing? What have they got to believe in? And I think all these things, you get those things right, you're winning. Yeah, I remember when you were talking there, it took me back to a time when I was working in the education sector in the UK and was walking along a corridor and there was a sweet wrap on the carpet and that person picked up the sweet wrap and put it in the bin. And I observed this and they didn't have to do that. Yeah, they did that. And it just really stuck out my mind of someone who just attention to detail but picked it up and it was being kind of just being aware. But yet I've had some other worked for other business leaders and I've seen in fact, I have whistleblowed on a particular time in my life where I saw a colleague being bullied by another colleague and I was not putting up with it, I was not standing for it. So I went to speak to the HR to discuss it and flag my concerns. But the other person still worked at that organization. And at that point I checked out because I realized that I couldn't work in a space where bullying was being rewarded. That was the thing. At the moment, I'm doing a bit of research on conflict and I've just completed a conflict dynamic profiling while I'm a practitioner in that space. And when you talk about communication, I was smiling because in that tool that I'm using now, it looks at how to look at your hot buttons and see what would basically trigger you in terms of conflict situations. And I'm curious, if you're in conflict situations, what would be your natural way of dealing with those situations? Public? And I suppose in the workplace is different to maybe at home or maybe not, but how would you deal with conflict or not? I'm curious. I've had lots of conflict with clients. I've had conflicts. So going back to values, I'm very value driven and have morals. And I had one particular client who quite frankly was misogynistic. It didn't stand for my values. And I actually did two programs for them. And because there was a number of occasions where I was screamed at, made to cry, just other situations with other. People that work for the same organizations and I can't work for a company like that. So I basically stopped working with them. I refused to work. They wanted me to get involved with other programs. I just said no. But I can't work with you. I'll give you another example. There was a project that I worked on last year which was incredibly difficult, and again, I'm quite happy to call. Things out and say when I think. Things aren't being done properly or people are not singing from the same hymn sheet. And actually, if you're working on a really big project together, everyone's got pulled. Away, so I'm quite happy to call things out. I don't like confrontation, I don't think many people do, but I think as I get older, having the confidence to have those things. I've got my daughter, who's 18, works in retail, and she's brilliant, she's 18. And she can call things out and. She can deal with conflict. Even at 18, she find it difficult. But she does it, and I think she's learned that from me and my husband. Yeah, that's wonderful. I think there's a balance between if there's conflict situations, then someone was to criticize someone. I think there's a level of being able to sit back and listen and what's been said and what's not been said. I used to really hate conflict. I didn't like it, I would avoid it, so I would almost shut down and I wouldn't speak to the person, I just wouldn't reach out, I would not get involved. But that was my coping mechanism. Whereas now I'm learning to be a. Bit more vocal and I suppose the question for me would be, what would the smartest person do now? And what would be the impact of me not having these conversations in one month, two months, five years, that sort of thing. But, yeah, there are people out there, I guess, who maybe just like conflicts for the fun of it. Yeah, I think because I'm not scared of calling things out, I think that can scare people, but that's the way I am. But do you not think, as well, people know where they stand with you? Is that not a positive? Yeah, I think. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. What would you say, Naomi's, been the bravest or scariest thing you've ever done? Apart from having kids? Oh, God. Dragon's den was pretty scary. Every time I speak on a stage, that's scary. Every time I do a workshop, that's scary. I think I do things that scare. Me every day of the I mean. I think that's what keeps me motivated, that's what keeps me going. I think you have to scare yourself doing things that you don't feel comfortable doing. It can be hard, but I think it's healthy to do things that scare you. I'm not going to be one of. Those people that's going to jump out of a plane or anything like that, but doing other things, like I said, every time I get asked to speak at something or do a workshop, I'm scared. And I think that's healthy to be. Scared, because I think if you're cool. As a cucumber and you wouldn't know. That I was scared, but I think. For me, yeah, I do things that scare me all the time. Yeah. And that's great advice. And for people out there who are wanting to take the next leap or maybe set up a business or do something that they've always wanted to do is do it and don't exactly what scares you. So what does the future hold for you and your career and what's your plans next? Do you know what I'm doing? I can't see myself ever retiring. Tiring like 52 is the new 32, so that's not going to happen yet. That's what I say to myself anyway. Yeah, I don't know. I think I'd like to get some words on some paper at one point. Keep doing speaking, keep advocating for people. I still love the mentoring that I. Do and I think I'd like to. Get some other sort of board positioners as well. So, yeah, I think some non Xx stuff would be I've been doing it for a couple of years anyway, but. Some more non exec stuff, I think. Yeah, fantastic. Well, any final remarks or comments for anybody who might be feeling a bit stuck right now and wanting to get out of that feeling and do something different or live life on their terms? Have you got any final thoughts? Yeah, I think for me, I would say we talked about communication quite a lot today. We've also talked about surrounding yourself with. People, finding your tribes of people that. Are going to support you, champion you, listen to you. I think also as well, try not to be scared. Do things that scare you. Make sure if you are looking at starting a business or exploring it, make sure you do your research, make sure you do your homework. And there is so much support out. There for whichever type of business. I've done a lot of stuff with creative businesses, but yes, just keep learning. I think you never stop learning. I'm continuously learn something new every week and I love that. So, yeah, that would be my advice. Yeah. Well, thank thank you so much for coming on the show today. It's lovely chatting with you and I wish you all the future success and in the world with what you're doing. Thank you, Naomi. Thank you.