Befriending Your Hormones Befriending Yourself Giulietta Durante

Welcome to an insightful episode of "Wild + (Finally F**king) Free": Befriending Your Hormones, Befriending Yourself with Giulietta Durante, Giulietta, a menstrual cycle nutritionist, is dedicated to revealing how understanding your menstrual cycle can unlock your true potential. Through her approach of hormone-healing nutrition, she empowers you to embrace your cycle's influence and strengthen your self-awareness, paving the way for a harmonious relationship with your hormones.

Giulietta's unique fusion of rigorous scientific knowledge and spiritual affinity has earned her the moniker of 'Hormone Whisperer.' She seamlessly integrates her profound understanding of biochemistry with intuitive healing methods, guiding you toward a balanced hormonal existence.

By acknowledging the intricate interplay between hormones and holistic well-being, Giulietta invites you to embark on a journey of self-discovery and empowerment. Through her guidance, you'll learn to harness the innate wisdom of your body's rhythms, cultivating a deeper connection with yourself and your menstrual cycle.

As you explore Giulietta's teachings, you'll uncover the transformative potential of aligning with your hormonal fluctuations. Rather than viewing your cycle as a burden, Giulietta encourages you to embrace it as a source of insight and vitality.

Find Giulietta online at https://www.hormonesinharmony.co.uk

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Transcript

SPEAKER00: Hello everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I have the beautiful Giulietta Duranti from Hormones in Harmony with us. How are you?
SPEAKER01: Very well, thank you. Looking forward to our chat. Always happy and always excited to talk hormones, perimenopause and all of the things.

SPEAKER_00: I tell you what, I don't even know, I meant to say to you before we started recording. I don't know how I came across you, but I found you on Instagram probably about I reckon at least six months, probably closer to 12 months ago. And I just love the straight talk that you have about hormones. I love the fact that you talk about women understanding their hormones and being empowered and ways that they can support themselves, all of those things. But I had to have you on the podcast because A, we need to talk hormones and we also really need to talk about perimenopause hormones. Can you introduce yourself for anyone who doesn't already know of you?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course. So I run a company called Hormones in Harmony, and I'm a menstrual cycle and hormone nutritionist. That's really my real core focus. How can we use nutrition, lifestyle, all of the things to really start supporting our hormones in a way that is realistic as well. I'm really big on this not feeling the same every day, because if you were to ever look at a menstrual cycle, you would see we're not meant to feel the same every day. I'm also really big on using functional testing, which is a slightly different type of testing that you would normally get at your doctors, to dig deep, to understand what's happening with your hormones and to really empower everyone I work with who comes across me to understand a little bit more. Like, do we even know how it feels on our bodies when our estrogen drops? Do we know what that feels like? No, we don't, right? Like, we don't even know what these hormones do. They do so many things half the time. I just want people to befriend their hormones to get to know them. I'm not saying we're going to be like massively in love with them every single day of our lives. That's not realistic. But I think when you understand them a bit better, you can just navigate life a bit better and you stop feeling that you are the problem. You're not the problem.

SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, I'm going to write down befriend your hormones because I feel like that's going to be your title already. I love what you're saying because I'm a biologist by trade, so you're a cell biologist, so not tiny biology, but I am astounded that It took me to get absolutely bitch slapped by perimenopause symptoms when I turned 47 to even think about what does oestrogen do in my body? What does high oestrogen feel like? What does low oestrogen feel like? What does that impact about me? Does that change the way I manage stress? Does it change the way, whether I'm positive about something or whatever? Like it astounds me that. It takes something in, you know, maybe if I'd not had such significant symptoms, I wouldn't have even learned about it, but I'm glad we're talking more about hormones. I think that there is a lot of information that might just be through one particular lens. So I'm really keen to hear when someone comes to you and they do feel like they are kind of broken or need fixing or there's something wrong with them. Where do we even start? What's your key messages?

SPEAKER_01: So where we start is in a way, almost like gathering data and starting to maybe track a little bit, starting to understand what the struggles are and where they happen in their cycle. If they're perimenopause, maybe that tracking is not so easy. So we kind of put that aside, but it's like, okay, how did you feel here? What was the issue? You know, quite often. if we are talking about perimenopause, it's this kind of weird lengthening and shortening of cycles. Maybe it's your periods getting heavier. Maybe it's those moods just like flipping and you just feel so, so out of control. Really depending on what the person comes with, we will focus on these things. For example, I'm not here to tell you, oh yes, we'll be able to get your regular cycles back because if you're perimenopausal, I hate to say it, but that's probably not going to happen again.

SPEAKER_00: The ship has sailed, people.

SPEAKER_01: That ship has sailed. Goodbye. But what we can do is how can we manage that? And it's not just the kind of like the nutrition work. That's huge. That's the foundation. But then it's like, it's almost like the coaching and the mentoring and the, you know, let's start really learning what this means. The frustration that comes with all of this. you know, a lot of the time it's like, I don't feel like I'm me anymore in my body. And that's quite a difficult thing to work through. But if we, that's the real crux of it. If you can start becoming familiar with this new version of you that is emerging, then it is, it makes life a lot easier rather than waking up every day and going, Oh, I got my period today. You know, Oh, you're going to comes in a week's time. I mean, I'm there at the moment, you know, like I'm going to be 47 in April. My cycles are driving me mad. They drive me mad. And it's just like, I have to release all my expectations. And that's what I'm really working on and just deal with it in a very different way. But you know, when people first come to me, we do We start with the basics, which is nutrition. Are you eating enough to feed your hormones? Are you eating enough protein? Are you eating enough fat? Are you eating enough carbs? And everybody has a slightly different sweet spot for everything. Of course, there are recommendations, but as we move again into perimenopause, our need for carbs lowers. We need more protein and we need more fats because we've become what's called more insulin resistant. We don't deal with those carbs in the same way. I'm sure anyone listening to this nose, you know, you're like, wow. And this is not about restricting or cutting out foods, but it's understanding what your body needs again and really sort of working on that. And that really is the foundation. And then it's like, okay, now we put the foundations in place. What's the next thing? What's the next thing that you need? That's maybe when we might do some testing, we might go a bit deeper. We'll then put in maybe some supplements. We'll see what else is needed. Sometimes, honestly, I barely do any nutrition work with a client. It's all mindset, thought work, all of these things, you know, because I could get a client come to me and who's just like, oh, I've got these terrible cravings. I can't stop eating this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And actually, None of that has anything really to do with the nutrition. There's so much more. Maybe this person comes from being a lifelong perfectionist and just cannot. Yeah, I don't know. Nothing here. I'm identifying. I very rarely come across a woman who has not been a lifelong perfectionist, I think. So there's all of that involved as well. It's an amazing opportunity to do so much work. I feel it's almost like this thing, a tray is handed to you and it's like, right, Here it all is. How do you want to rearrange this? And how do you want the next 20, 30, 40 years to be? You know, what do you want us to look like? And you have to throw things out and put things in and put them, rearrange them in a different way. And what used to serve you no longer serves you. And actually some very surprising things that you're like, Ooh, now it really starts serving you.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. I, so much in what you're saying that I'm absolutely in love with. So first of all, you use the word surrender. I think So much of my own perimenopause journey has been about understanding where my expectations are not the reality. And the fact that the story about that gap is what causes me suffering. And it's internal, like totally internal. So it's like. You know, I should always have, like, I've always been someone who's had a really good energy constitution. So I've always had high energy and I hit perimenopause and I fell in a hole of exhaustion. And I was like, well, that's not my version of me. So therefore that's wrong. And it's like. Maybe the fact that you've been burning the candle at both ends for about 47 years has added up to like, it's something that you actually need to look at. And so what you're saying about taking things off your plate and, or your tray. And also I love the nuance about there's things that may not have suited you earlier on, that actually now are going to be things that really nourish you or sustain you or whatever. I wonder when your. Let's leave perimenopause specifically for later on, but when you're working with someone and you're saying about it's a lot of mindset sort of stuff. So if you were talking to someone who was the lifelong perfectionist, tell me more about what, what patterns does that read and actually contribute to the problem, you know, the surface level problem that they came to you about, but actually what's underneath?

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot there. Sometimes it's a constant dissatisfaction with their bodies, with their nutrition, because it's not perfect. It'll just be like, oh, and this is even harder when you're regularly cycling, right? you're not meant to eat the same every day or feel the same every day. For example, the week before your period, we need a bit more calm. We need actually to eat more food. And it can really show up there because it's like, oh, I was ravenous all day and then, you know, I just couldn't do it anymore. And I ate, I don't know, something a bit sweet or I grabbed a brownie or whatever. And there's this real, like, it's not just the moment of eating the brownie, but it's all guilt and everything else. It's like, I wasn't strong enough. I didn't do this because A story I hear time and time again was like, oh, when I was younger, I was going to the gym at 5 a.m. I was eating salads all day, drinking smoothies, and I felt amazing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, like, and it's, we've all been there. And then I'm just like, okay, now Perimeter Wars is going to come along. And even just like, as you get a bit older, like, those things are not going to stop you anymore. And the more you push, the harder it will get. So that's something I see all the time. And this is like, I don't work with clients who are sort of with disordered eating clients, but we all have complex relationships. I think women have, and men, you know, like we have complex relationship with food. So the perfectionist really comes in there. And the problem is as well, it's becomes a barrier. to befriending your hormones. It becomes a barrier to getting to know yourself better because you cannot handle those moments when you're feeling in a way that makes you act anything less than perfect. You just can't do it. You know, you're just like, Oh, why? Yeah. There's also, for example, when we're talking about, for example, premenstrual rage or mood swings. No one wants to feel like that all the time.

SPEAKER_00: I feel like every single thing is fucking relevant. Yep. I do that too.

SPEAKER_01: Continue, probably, sorry. I do them too, you know, like it's not, but it's like these conversations are so important because A, we start realizing that we're not the only ones. We're not alone. We also realize that it's not in our heads. This is, it is in our head, but it is, you know, it's hormones created and everything else. We really need to I think that really helps when we're like, okay, now how do I get this? And it's really, I believe that, and all of the transitions that take place as we move towards perimenopause, they are this invitation to shed all these archetypes and all these ways of being that, do we really want to carry on doing this for another 20, 30, 40 years? No.

SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is exactly, I'm like, you know what, this is really, hard and it is for a deeply powerful purpose. Because I was just saying to a friend just lately, like I kind of had a bit of a crash, got myself sorted, lifestyle, a little bit of HR, HRT, like got, you know, learned again what worked. And now I'm going through another big change and I'm like, Huh. And I feel like it's just the next spiral of the, okay, now let's look at what's not sustained. Now let's look at the ways that you internally talk to yourself, what your habits are, what your relationships are, what your boundaries are, all these things that you don't have the energy, the time or the. Fs to give anymore, like, you know, no bandwidth left and it's, it forces you to make those decisions, which is fantastic because imagine if we were being your accommodating 20 year old self for the rest of our lives.

SPEAKER_01: yeah it's just not exactly exactly but i think the problem is we are so socialized to believe that is the archetype of woman that society loves that eastern rich fertile maiden you know that that's and i'm gonna have to bring it up that's what the patriarchy loves oh yeah it's like yeah Sometimes I feel I spend my whole life just talking about the patriarchy, but now I've always got to say, I'm going to talk about it again. And it really calls into question, because for me, one of the big groundbreaking moments was when I realized that my thoughts are patriarchal. I'm carrying the patriarchy inside of me. Because I was like, this and this. I'm really like, you know, very into like vocal, but about everything I was experiencing externally. But what I didn't realize was that the biggest sort of like essence of patriarchy was inside of me. And that is like a huge moment because you go, wow, the reason why I don't like to look at myself in the mirror anymore is because my body is not the body of a 20 year old woman. And that's the body that the patriarchy loves, you know, and it's It is a moment, a very powerful moment. And when you start noticing that, I mean, it's still, I know it's still there because we're talking about, you know, 47 years of internalized patriarchy. It's not going to disappear in two weeks, but it's understanding that there and you're like, Okay, cool. Well, now I see it. Yeah, like now, you know, like it influences the way I dress, it influences the way I move in the world now, because I don't need this patriarchal approval, not even for myself, you know, and reimagining that is quite exciting. It's like, what do I want to be? What does that mean? You know, I've noticed as I get older, which I love, is like women compliment me more on my appearance, which is, you know, and if I see someone with a, you know, wearing a beautiful dress or whatever, they're like, I love your dress, you look amazing. And that is like so much more powerful and so less toxic than this attention you got maybe from men when you were 20 or 30 or whatever, you know. And for many years I really struggled with this, like I feel invisible, you know, and now I'm like, well, I'm really finding what visibility means to me. You know, it really shifts things as well. So yeah, I don't even know what the question was to that.

SPEAKER_00: No, I'm loving your riff. I love so much again of what you said. So visibility is an interesting one, isn't it? Because I think the older I get, the more I realize how my internal conditioning is creating, like I said before, like the suffering, but I look back at being I don't know, I've been married a very long time, like 24 years almost. So I don't really kind of think about being attractive to other people, but I definitely have that kind of I don't know, like, especially in the corporate world, I always used to have a thing in my head of like, am I getting that opportunity or that promotion or that whatever, because I'm actually the best person to put forward? Or is it another agenda? Or is it like, there's just, it's so complicated when you try to think about it. And now I'm just like, well, I actually don't need your approval. So I'm just going to do me because. Being myself is the only thing that I've got the energy to do because I don't have any capacity to pretend anymore, which again is one of the beautiful gifts of perimenopause. I wanted to ask you, you did a reel just recently about being in your inner autumn and I was having a giggle before we started recording because you said, how to tell when you're in your inner autumn, like, you know, crazy cleaning, eating the chocolate and getting really easily irritated. I was like. That is me 24 seven in perimenopause. So I would really love your take on, like there's some people that would say that perimenopause is like a season of autumn. So when you think, when you look at perimenopause and the hormonal shifts, What do you reckon is the, like, if you had to think of a purpose for this rite of passage that we're going through, would you wrap it up? Cause you're talking about shedding skins and conditioning and all those things.

SPEAKER_01: What else do you reckon? Well, I mean, I think the analogy of autumn is quite a good one, right? Because autumn is quite like volatile. I mean, it depends on where you are in the world, but generally like, you know, autumn, you can have a beautiful bright day and the next time it's thundering and it goes. So I think that it really, that kind of volatility, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, but the unpredictability really reflects what's happening hormonally. I don't know if you've ever seen a chart of the hormones of perimenopause, but they are not, you know, like, You don't even need to look at one. I'm telling everyone who's listening, literally imagine like a peak and a down and up and down. It's absolute madness. You know, and I think so. So I think autumn really matches everything. It's almost like we've got this, like all these autumn leaves and wind and everything like blowing inside of us, right? There is an element of shedding. I love connecting with that concept of the shedding at this time as well. Yes. And I think there's also tapping into, you know, that sort of like the rage and the anger and this sort of like, maybe that, you know, some people say, well, don't feel angry when it's autumn. That's fine. But when we look at the menstrual cycle and the concept of inner autumn in the menstrual cycle, there is a real connection and a real acknowledgement of this time. You know, we call it PMS, we call it mood swings, whatever you want to call it. And there is so much power in this as well like when we start embracing it because really what I see time and time again with my clients is and my experience as well was the first sign of perimenopause for me was the rage and the mood swings. It's when your progesterone starts dropping because progesterone dips sooner than estrogen. Progesterone is like, I like to think of progesterone as a little calming blanket for your brain and all of a sudden that progesterone just doesn't it's not quite doing that anymore so you're like you've got nothing my jumper's got holes in it yeah you're like what And it's those mood swings. That's normally the first thing we experience. When I hear anybody say to me, oh, my mood swings have got worse, I immediately think you're probably starting your perimenopausal journey. But there is so much power in those mood swings and in that rage. There's a concept of sacred rage and anger. And if we talk again about all these perfectionists, all these perfectionist women who have been horsing along saying yes to everyone, pleasing the patriarchy, blah, blah, blah. All of a sudden,

SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden the veil lifts and she goes, what the absolute F am I doing with my precious time and energy? Yes.

SPEAKER_01: That's exactly the experience. I really feel that's a real power of perimenopause, you know, like leaning into the rage, understanding what it means. You know, I work with clients sometimes they're like, Oh, I feel terrible. I shouted at my husband and my kids. And I'm like, well, Did they piss you off? Was she like, yes, I did three loads of washing. Then they all came back from a muddy field. They threw everything on the ground. And I'm like, all right, so maybe we need to think about this a little bit more. I think your rage was justified. But you can see that conditioning. It's like, oh, but I didn't. It's such an invitation to then turn around and go from now onwards, everybody does laundry in this house and we do it together and this is the rota and this is this, you know, like there's all these opportunities for learning. It's almost like your own internal life coach, I feel.

SPEAKER_00: Speaking out loud. That's actually a very good analogy. As we're talking, where I live, autumn is, well, when I think of autumn, there's two things. First of all, I'm super sensitive to wind. So autumn here is really windy. So I get, my family actually call me the wind bitch because I, like if I'm in the wind for too long, I will just, I just cannot handle it. It really bothers me. Mind you, now I'm looking back, that's probably during just the perimenopause years that I've been up to now, but anyway. But yeah, it's the, the wind like sweeping away all the dead stuff, inviting to shed all of those things. And then the second thing that I always think about in autumn is we have these beautiful, we actually had one other day and it's not autumn weather yet, but it was the first sky that looked like an autumn sky, which is this really deep blue sky and it's really like everything looks clear. It's like it's brought into focus and it's like, when you're saying it's like, what are the things that I've actually allowed myself say it's okay when really it isn't? And then all of a sudden my accommodation hormones start to drop and I'm like, oh, that's not okay. I think it's really discombobulating for everyone around you though, I have to say. She's gone from the accommodating people pleaser to the, what the F do you think you're doing? No, I will not be doing your laundry for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01: And it requires a lot of conversations, you know, like difficult ones as well. Ones that we avoid, you know, or whatever, because it's hard. I mean, I'm very lucky. My husband has been dragged into understanding hormones, whether he likes it or not, you know, so he's been like, and he's been trained well, you know, because even in the old day when I went to psych, exactly when I was doing, you know, really working with a regular psycho, he knew there'd be days where I'd be like, look, you just need to leave me alone today because anything you say is going to be wrong. So just leave, and then I will tell you if there's something we need to think about and talk about later, you know, if something's coming up that's bothering me. At the moment, I don't even know what's bothering me, but you are bothering me just standing here, so go away.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just get out of my space, yes.

SPEAKER_01: Get out, and then we'll talk. So he's got quite good at understanding that now, you know, so now I can communicate that way. But then, you know, I work in this field all day long, you know, for other women who don't or who have never even been able to, they haven't really acknowledged what's going on. within themselves, let alone express it to other people. It is a real challenge, you know? So again, when you asked me earlier, what do I do with clients? This is a big part of the work. It's like, okay, you know, like I went into this rage and you're like, okay, but you know, are you happy with the fact that you are the one that does all the dishes and all the laundry? Are you happy? You know, and maybe see what happens next cycle. And if it bothers you again and then again and again, maybe that's something that has to be shifted, you know, and there is so much wisdom in there and it's not easy. I'm not saying it is.

SPEAKER_00: No, no, we're not saying it's easy. No, I'm fine. But it's there to look at. Do you know one of the most powerful things that happened to me when I kind of hit the wall, like when my symptoms were really significantly impacting me? I listened to, I've spoken about this on the podcast before, I listened to a Glennon Doyle podcast. I can't remember who the guest was, but the question the guest left everyone with was, where am I abandoning myself? And something about that question, the word abandoned, like hit me right between the eyeballs. It was much more powerful than saying, where are you doing things that you'd rather not, or, you know, all of those much nicer ways of saying that. When I actually asked myself, where are you abandoning yourself? I'm like. Every single time I do something for someone else and I have that resentment that comes up in me that I just squashed because a nice mother or a good woman or a whatever, fill in the bullshit there, um, wouldn't respond like that. And I just realized that I pretty much could look at my entire life at that stage and go, I'm literally abandoning myself. Everywhere. In my relationships, in my friendships, I was working corporate, which I absolutely hated. I like so many different ways. And that's why I came to such a catastrophic bitch slap, I always say, like just blindsided. Because I wasn't listening beforehand because I just had, and I had the filter of this is just what life is like and this is what, whatever, like whatever the sort of story was. And yeah, I look back. So I'm, I just turned 49. So this is two, four years. Holy moly. Like. Yes, transformative in, you know, I feel like I've been in through the eye of the needle or, you know, into the fire and I don't think I'm out the other side, but I'm, you know, I can sense that there's light at the end of it, you know, the other side. I really think that for me at least, not understanding what was possibly going to happen, but also when you use the term befriending your hormones, I don't think I've ever, like, I went on the pill pretty early. for no real good reason. I don't even, I never had any issues with my periods. I just was on the pill. It's what you did. It's what you did.

SPEAKER_01: It was always a rite of passage. Like I was the same. I hit like 17 or something and I was like, I'm going to go on the pill. I'm not in a long-term relationship. I'm not really having any sex, but that's what you do. It's so cool though. It's yeah, I'm cool. Cause look at me, I'm taking this pill, you know, like back now. And I'm like, wow, that was madness.

SPEAKER_00: Why was I doing that? What damage or what impact do you think that being in that generation that most of us were, I reckon probably 80% of my friends were on the pill by, yeah, 17, 18. What do you think that has, or do you think there's been an impact in how we think about our cycles and our hormones and how well versed we are? Because, you know, on the pill, you're not actually having a proper cycle anyway, so. Yeah, what do you reckon?

SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we were an interesting generation because we are very much a generation that has seen it. I know every generation would probably say this has seen a lot of change, but we really have very extreme shifts. And I think we are probably the first generation whose very common story is we went on the pill and we felt absolutely horrendous on it. We didn't like it, but we didn't know what else there was. And so we stayed on it. And then as we got older, we started realizing, I don't really like this anymore. And thankfully, by that point, you had a bit more access to more information. The wonderful internet came along. It has many problems with it, but it's also, I think for hormones and periods and cycles and lifesaver. Yeah. You know, we wouldn't be having this conversation today without the internet. You know, people started saying, hang on, I didn't get on with that pill. I didn't do this and that. And then you start hearing these stories more and more. Again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier. You realize you're not the only one. You're not alone. You're like, huh? You know, because I really, the majority of my clients, if you were to take a timeline, of their hormonal journey it's nearly always the same like ours was the same right we started going on the pill and then we were like no this isn't feeling right and then and so we I feel are one of the first generations that we're like oh what else is there what are my other options And then we all came a little bit late into understanding about our hormones, but we did. Whereas maybe earlier generations that, you know, the fear of getting pregnant was so great. That was the only thing that really ruled you, right? Because you have to also acknowledge the role of the pill in helping women take control of their bodies. And for that, it's one of the most incredible things that happens. But equally, My issue with the pill is that there is no research and there is no interest in improving it. We're still taking pills that were developed in the 50s and 60s and they sometimes tweak the progestins in there, they sometimes tweak the hormones. come on, you know, like you probably see the social media memes all the time, like if men had periods the pill would be there.

SPEAKER_00: I know. Bloody patriarchy.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly. You know, so this is the thing, and I think this is the story. So we came, we spent probably our first two decades hormonal of our hormonal lives, suppressing our cycles through the pill because we didn't know what else to do. We didn't even really know there was another option. Then for those of us who maybe wanted to have children, you come off and you just hope for the best. There's the ones who get pregnant easily and the ones who struggle and again there wasn't much support and nobody ever talked about potentially how the pill could have impacted that, right? For some women, your cycle never ever looks the same after the pill. It breaks that communication between the brain and the ovaries. And then I feel a lot of us of our generation, it was kind of like late 30s when we discovered this thing called the menstrual cycle. Yeah, crazy. You know, we were like, oh, so you're telling me that I don't need to feel a scent every day? You're telling me that these things, you know, like all of these things, all of a sudden you're like, oh, this makes sense. And then you, well, for me personally, I threw myself into living cyclically, you know, I was like obsessed with it. I was like, yes, Yeah, this is so good. And I feel that's kind of the story for our generation. And I really feel there are being big shifts because, you know, we are educating our children. You know, I make it a point of always talking about it and letting, you know, my friends know, everyone knows. It's like, look, we need to be talking about this. We can't make periods taboo. You know, I'm a big fan. I'm trying to like sort of try to get into schools more because the curriculum is still sadly lacking. They're like, oh yeah, we cover that. I'm like, well, what exactly is it you do cover? Tell me what you're telling people. Because you need to be taught how to use sanitary products. You need to know how to insert these things and take them out. You need to understand that the cycle is different. Your menstrual cycle spans over the whole month. You also need to tell them that you can't get pregnant every single day of the month. Which every school I've ever gone into… No, every school I've ever gone into is like, please don't mention that. And I'm like, are you kidding me? But I feel the pill was a double-edged sword. I feel it really served generations before us. It probably kind of served us in a way, but we kind of have been privileged enough to be growing up in a time when we realized that there are other ways of potentially managing your contraception, your fertility, all those things. And that you don't have to put up with all the side effects of the pill. I mean, my worst period of mental health ever was when I was on the pill, like really Not even my worst perimenopausal day can match a day on the pill.

SPEAKER_00: I was actually just saying to someone the other day, she was saying about her experience going into perimenopause, but due to medical and surgical interventions because of breast cancer and The doctor that she was seeing, who was an oncologist, advised her to have an implanon. And I don't know whether it's the same in your, but implanon here is the rod that you have put in your arm, which I think is progesterone or progestin based. I'm not really sure about that. And she was saying, well, A, she is wise enough not to have wanted that. So that was the kind of end of her story. I said, I had that inserted. I had it inserted for about three weeks. I turned into a sociopath. Like I was so. mentally unwell on the spectrum of just completely unhinged. Like that I, yeah, ended up my husband actually going to the doctor and we're getting this thing cut out of your arm because this is ridiculous. Yeah. I think I look at my, like my daughters at 18 and 19, and I think you're going to be the generation that knows about periods and isn't shamed by periods and knows how to harness your cycle. And also when you get to menopause, you'll also know more than our generation, definitely. Which I think is really cool to think about that, that how much has shifted, because I never, ever talked about any of that with my mum. Still not. I actually have no idea what my mother's perimenopausal or menopausal experience was. I suspect she had, yeah, anyway. Yeah, so I think that's a really cool thing. The other thing that I wanted to circle back to, as you're talking, you mentioned when we first started chatting about good functional testing. He tells a little bit more about that because there's a kind of chunk of the internet at the moment that, you know, is seeing menopause specifically through a hormone deficiency model. I'm using my air quotes with deficiency. And I'm interested to hear your take on testing versus how the medical world may sort of think about testing for perimenopause or any issues with cycling.

SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think, well, the first thing is, I don't know what it's like in your corner of the world, most certainly here in the UK and in Europe. If you think you're in perimenopause, doctors won't test because they're like, you're in perimenopause, your hormones change every day. There is no point. Imagine you're having all of this stuff going on. You're going to get help and you just get told no. and turned away. And you will be given, in the UK certainly, they're giving HRT to absolutely everyone, the same dose for everyone, which, you know, I'm not, I really am not against HRT. I think it can be an absolutely life-changing thing, but it has to be done correctly and it has to take the individual into account.

SPEAKER_00: The key thing there, individual, not just blanket, everybody should be on HRT.

SPEAKER_01: How can a woman who's 45 be taking the same HRT as a woman who's 65? That does not make any sense to me. Anyway, so yeah, functional testing. So the reason I love it. So what is functional testing? It is a different way of testing. I don't know if you've ever heard of the functional medicine, which is this wonderful branch of medicine that kind of grew from America. They're still the best at it. They are incredible in America. I'm always like starry-eyed with the functional medicine model. I'm like, oh God, you're amazing. But functional medicine is a holistic form of medicine. Most people who practice functional medicine in the US at least are also doctors. There are many functional medicine practitioners who aren't, so I follow that model and not a doctor. But it's about looking at lifestyle, nutrition, supplements and where appropriate medication so you work with a doctor as well because sometimes that combination including the medication is like that's it right that's when you know you smashed it and what I love about functional testing is it's always giving you gives you this like beautiful overview but also a very in-depth picture and it's not like You know, it's not just like, oh, get your bloods done one day. One of my big bugbears about hormone testing is most of the time the doctors forget to tell women what day to test. So think about this. Your hormones are like different every day of the month. And so quite often clients are like, oh, I got this blood test done by the doctor. And I'm like, OK, so what day was this? And they're like, oh, I don't know. And I'm like, well, That's completely pointless. I have no idea if this is relevant or not. At least tell people normally you would test on day three or day 21 if it was a blood test, but that often doesn't… That's how deep the ignorance is sometimes of the medical profession. They won't even tell their patients to do that. So, what I love about functional testing is it's just a deeper snapshot. It looks at the way, it's in the word, how the body is functioning. It tells you how it's using things. It's showing you what the conversations are between different hormones. It's like an intricate picture. It's not just this, goodbye, see you later. You're out of this range. One of my favorite all-time functional tests is called the Dutch test, which is a dry urine. hormone test and it's just beautiful because it just, you know, it gives you this really deep picture. It tests not just your sort of reproductive hormones but also your adrenal hormones because, well, we haven't even really spoken about them, but your adrenals are the two little glands that they produce adrenaline and cortisol and noradrenaline and things like that, but they take over hormone production fully in menopause at the end. So they need to be working properly because if they're not, this is where that, like you say, that lack of capacity comes from that you just can't do it. So you need to look after your adrenals and what I love about the Dutch is like, it kind of tells me how you behaved in the past. I always call it like my crystal ball, you know, and people are like, how did you know that? And I'm like, I can see it here.

SPEAKER_00: As you're talking about adrenals, I'm like, you poor little glands. I'm sorry for everything I did in my twenties and thirties.

SPEAKER_01: But this is now, this is the brilliant thing about perimenopause. It's the opportunity to change it. We don't have to carry on like that. And the adrenals, the minute you look after them, they'll take a little bit of coaxing. They'll be like, okay, okay, no problem. We'll come back online. we're safe we're okay you know and I just love this idea of getting this really beautiful like you know a blood test or a test you get done at the doctors it's almost like a Polaroid picture a quick snapshot and this is almost like a landscape painting showing you three different scenes or whatever.

SPEAKER_00: And that's how I would describe it. It's just come from nowhere. I'd never used that one before, by the way.

SPEAKER_01: That's just like, I'm mad. And it's just like, this is like, you know, when you're deep in the throes of perimenopause and you just don't know what's happening and someone sits with you and shows you this beautiful landscape painting of your hormones and says to you, look, this is what's happening. Look how low your testosterone is because we haven't even mentioned testosterone. And that's the one that really starts kicking in. We need testosterone for motivation, libido, you know, all that get up and go. Sometimes it's nothing to do with any of the other hormones. I used to have some of that around here. Exactly. Where is it gone? Yeah, exactly. And sometimes that's the missing piece. Or sometimes I'm like, wow, look, your cortisol is so flat that you're just shattered all the time. You know, and it just gives you this picture where you could be like, oh, this, you know, rather than just sitting here thinking, what the hell is going on? What's wrong with me? You've got this map that you can then start connecting with and sort of like really working on. And, you know, I always say the Dutch test never lies. Ever. It's always there. Like, you know, because I've done them all myself and like, I fool myself all the time.

SPEAKER_00: I'm doing better than what I am.

SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I'm like, okay, yeah, I really do need to get off my phone at night because there's a curve that shows you cortisol throughout the day. And I'm like, okay, I need to be honest with myself. You know, it shows you how you detoxify your oestrogen, which is so important because If you're going to think about going on HRT, there are different pathways that oestrogen goes down in the liver and some produce a very gentle metabolite of oestrogen and some produce a very strong one. And if you are favoring that pathway, the strong pathway, HRT may not quite be the one for you or you may need a much lower dose. That's where the subtlety comes from. It sometimes helps to explain breast tenderness, period pain, PMS. I see that pathway being very upregulated in women and we can go in and do loads of things nutritionally, supplement wise, you can start for targeting that. And then you can think about putting in your HRT. There are some doctors in the UK who are coming under a lot of criticism for running these huge menopause clinics, online groups, and all they do is increase the dose. Every time somebody's like, they go on HRT, they're like, oh, that felt good. But then two or three months later, they start feeling everything's coming back. Instead of going, what's going on? Maybe it's their oestrogen detox. Maybe it's their stress. No, they just go, add another pump, do another patch. And then you're ending up with these mega, mega doses of oestrogen, which is so incredibly dangerous. And it's not getting to the root of the problem, you know, which is where we go back to the functional medicine model of HRT plus lifestyle, plus the testing, plus nutrition, plus this, plus that. And then, you know, that's when you're going to feel great on the HRT. That's when the HRT is the icing on the cake. And you're like, yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent. I think what you have just been saying about the increasing the dose, I really want to hone in on that point. What I'm seeing in some menopause communities online is if someone has gone to a doctor like that and they increase, increase, what can unfortunately happen is the woman starts to feel like they're failing because the estrogen is no longer working. And I'm like way to put the blame back on the person that needs the support all over again. And I'm just like, it really sounds like the way that you approach things is Number one, it's a multilayered approach, but also by doing the functional testing, it makes me feel like you're giving people the tools to have more appreciation of the processes in their bodies and where they may be. I don't know. I keep, I just did something on. That's cool. My Zoom is doing weird things. I don't even know how I made that happen. But anyway, the other day I was doing an interview and it kept on putting the thumbs down. I don't know. Anyway, I was like, Oh my goodness, I'm not doing that. My Zoom is doing weird things everyone. Sorry. Totally. Just distracted myself. When we're thinking like, I always come back to like traditional Chinese medicine lens, which is one of the things that I studied many moons ago and It feels like you're giving people more of an understanding of when things are kind of deficient and depleted versus excess and upregulated and being able to kind of make sense of it more than just one size fits all hormone replacement therapy, you know, off you go type of thing. Can you talk more about, you mentioned a few times, like, and I know this is a hard thing to answer overall, but the types of nutritional support and the types of like lifestyle-y kind of thing. Like you mentioned getting off your phone. I'm an ex sleep scientist. I'm like, get off your phone, people. You shouldn't be on your phone after about six o'clock at night. Yeah. Says she, who is always on her phone after six o'clock. So totally, you know, I'm putting my hand up. So what sort of things can you, like, The approach with the nutrition and lifestyle, what sort of things can that include?

SPEAKER_01: So I think with nutrition, I sort of touched on it a little bit earlier, is really rethinking your intake of protein, fats and carbs. You know, protein, a lot of our hormones are made from protein and fats, you know, one or the other or both. So we need to be feeding our bodies more than ever. There is a really big need for these two food groups, and I think Again, our generation, our relationship with food could have been previously calorie counting, restriction, overexercising. Exactly, all of that. Even the low-fat thing. Still to this day, I will have clients who are still having low-fat yogurts and things because they did a program many years ago that was low-fat and they can't. It's so ingrained. It's a bit like the internalized patriarchy, but the internalized low-fat thing or whatever.

SPEAKER_00: Internalized bullshit diet culture.

SPEAKER_01: Exactly. So that's the first thing. It's just like, are you eating enough to feed? It's feeding your hormones, right? Are you giving your body enough fuel? And then it's like, let's increase the vegetables. Like the vegetable, vegetables is like, everyone agrees. Everyone. Yes. Vegetables are good for you. So we don't have, we're not going to be arguing with anyone else.

SPEAKER_00: No, we're not.

SPEAKER_01: We're not. So I love doing things like, can you have vegetables at breakfast? Can you have vegetables at every meal? You know, I'm not saying, again, people might be thinking, what about fruit? And fruit is absolutely fine. But when you're starting to get into perimenopause, maybe thinking about maybe two to three max a day portions of fruit and shift more to the vegetables, just because that sugar, our bodies become just, they're not very good at handling that sugar. They just kind of causes all sorts of insulin issues and actually mood and energy and everything crashes. So that's the first thing. And the other thing I love doing with the nutrition is can you get yourself to a point where you can have a beautiful breakfast, not snack until lunchtime, have a wonderful lunch and not snack until dinner. You know, there's so much talk about intermittent fasting and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We see what, you know, it's February. Everybody's almost coming to the end of their diet kind of January thing. And I just had so many messages from women saying, I'm intermittently fasting. What do you recommend? And it's just like, I'm not completely opposed to intermittent fasting. I think there is a time and place, but you cannot throw yourself into it. just like that, much better and a much more sustainable approach and actually more effective is just getting yourself your nutrition to the point where you're eating these meals that can sustain you from one meal to the next. Because try doing that, that is actually a bit of a challenge, especially in perimenopause. I mean, I, a few years ago, really noticed these shifts and I was like this mad sugar monster, like I could not get from one meal to the next. So I walked past a shop and I'd be like, oh, I don't think I can walk the next 10 minutes to get home without having a chocolate. I think something bad will happen. I think with the nutrition, it's like getting those, can you get to those, it's called metabolic flexibility, which means you can break down proteins and fats and carbs efficiently. You're not just always getting all your energy from carbs. I'm not talking about going into ketosis.

SPEAKER_00: I'm not talking about anything extreme.

SPEAKER_01: Nothing extreme. Nothing extreme, but literally, can you have a beautiful breakfast? And that's where it becomes fun because it's like, what kind of breakfast do I need to get the breakfast to lunch? Because your breakfast might be very different to mine. I mean, my whole family laugh at me because I usually have like quite a meaty breakfast with a load of vegetables. I mean, it does not look like a breakfast that you'd ever see on a film or on television. That sustains me and I feel fine from breakfast until lunch. So that works for me, save for lunch and dinner. So I would say that's nutritionally, that's what we're talking about. Lifestyle, I think phones are a big issue for all of us because of the release of cortisol, that stress hormone constantly. And the last thing we need at this stage in our lives is any more injections of cortisol anywhere. We need to bring it down. So like, yeah, getting yourself off your phone. And I'm always like, look, start with baby steps. 15 minutes, half an hour, build and build, you know, start getting into books again. I think reading at nighttime is such a wonderful way to like help your hormones.

SPEAKER_00: So good.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And once you get into it, it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah. And this is just me personally, but reading a book allows me to calm and regulate and escape far more than anything visually. That's just, that's always been the way for me. As you're talking, the other thing I want to kind of layer on top of that is if you are neuro-sparkly like me, being on your phone is a worst dopamine. So you're getting cheap dopamine from your phone, which is, you're already struggling with dopamine because your estrogen is dropping and your dopamine is affected by that. And I actually did an interview the other day with a lady who teaches emotional resilience training. She's an outdoor education teacher that went into, and she was giving this beautiful kind of definition or filter between being able to understand soothing and nourishing activities that are based on. oxytocin and serotonin versus the cheap thrill of the dopamine. And it really something, again, it's often the way that someone just says something that I've kind of known, but I haven't really gotten it. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I noticed. And I'm saying to her, I'm really, it's like, if I just make sure that I'm on Instagram. not on my phone, I'm fine. So it's something to do with this. And she's like, do you know that the up and down movement of your eyes is actually a dopamine stimulator? It's like, oh my goodness, I didn't know that either. So yeah, it's like phones, phones and the dysregulation that that create, quite apart from the fact that social media, if you allow it to be, can be, you know, something that interferes with your sense of self very easily. So that is not good for any of us. Sorry, I interrupted you, but I just wanted to add that dopamine. It's like cheap dopamine. The fast hit.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And you know how we were talking earlier, like how many people know what high estrogen feels like or low estrogen. I wonder how many of us know the difference between serotonin and dopamine, like how that feels because serotonin is contentment. Serotonin is reading that book kind of like that. Serotonin feels it's when you're on holiday and you're sat by a poolside and you're reading books.

SPEAKER_00: That's serotonin.

SPEAKER_01: Chilled. But then dopamine has a slightly more manic kind of up and down. Creaking dirty. Yeah, and you want more and then the more you get, the worse it feels and it gets. Don't get me wrong, I love a good dopamine hit, but being aware of it is really important and you know, you're so right, they are neurotransmitters and hormones kind of support, you know, they are interlinked and it's very complex. So we need to just really be very protective of being on our phone because That's like a hormonal and neurotransmitter soup for us that we just don't need, especially at night. And other lifestyle things, I think it's really important to think about how we're moving in our bodies and exercise. You know, a lot of us come from, probably at some point we did punishing exercise regimes. We were over-exercising all of the things, you know. I talk constantly about my 5am gym bunny clients and the first thing I say to them, you have to, because What I hear most of the time is like, oh, it's not working. So I'm going to get up at 4.30 and I'm going to do an extra half hour on the treadmill. And I'm like, please don't do that. That is literally just it's going to set off every single warning bell in your body. Like these lie in. So we're talking about how do we need to move as we get older? And you know, like what we need is we need a lot of weight bearing exercise. We need to move those muscles. you know, weight training. And if you don't want to go to the gym and do heavy weights, that's okay. Buy yourself some dumbbells, do press-ups. I think we've got to the point as well sometimes when it's like, oh, but I don't want to, you know, gyms are not exactly the most friendly of environments. They can be full of all sorts of horrible, sweaty, yeah, so we don't want to do that. Get your stuff, do it at home. Never underestimate the power of yoga, of Pilates. All of these ways of exercising also build muscle. But we really need to, because one of the biggest issues is our muscles start, I hate using this word, wasting. And it's a really big deal. And also, You know, I think they also help us with our insulin kind of management as well. And it's just like, I think there's a lot here to unpick in terms of releasing the perfectionist, finding things that you really love doing. That's the most important thing. Do you love it? Because if you don't love it, you're not going to do it. You know, don't worry too much about, oh, but somebody on the internet told me that I needed to do three heavy weight sessions a week. If you do that, then we're never going to get anywhere. Do what you love and enjoy it and find joy and use it as an opportunity to come into your body and enjoy those effects. You know, like enjoy feeling strong. Enjoy that first push up that you do when you actually do an actual push up. You might never do an actual one but you might still be on your knees and you're like yes but I'm doing it you know but movement is a really important one at this point but really finding something you love is important so I think those lifestyle ones getting out like just getting out every day 10-15 minutes in the mornings looking outside, connecting with the sky, sunrise if you're lucky enough to see one. That is almost like a switch that tells your hormones, right, let's get ready for the day. Yes. Simple. It's not complicated.

SPEAKER_00: My sleep scientist heart loves you. So I was like, anytime you've got struggles with, yeah, sleep issues, get natural light first thing in the morning is a really good help. And yes, perimenopause can obviously screw with that as well. But the other thing that I've been really loving lately, I've noticed a lot that nature is even more soothing for me. So I live in the country anyway, so I'm not really in a city where there's kind of not much green space. But I've got this tree outside my window and there's always little birdies out there cheep cheeping. And so I've just started to get into the habit of every 90 minutes or so going out and, you know, checking the veggie patch or feeding the chooks or going, you know, kicking the ball for the dogs or whatever. And I'm noticing. how much, so like my inner perfectionist is like, you need to do X, Y, and Z. But actually what is making a huge difference is these tiny little, I call them self-care snacks. It's like, you know, what can I actually kind of gift myself in this moment? And at the moment, like I've just gotten back into listening to meditation music overnight because I find that really helps my sleep. And yeah, I got out of the habit of it. And then it's like, Oh, well, remember that little tiny thing that you used to do that actually did make a difference. And I slept so well last night.

SPEAKER_01: I was like, we're there. I think it's, you know, we need to remember, sorry to interrupt you, but so much of the stuff that we see is like, it's all based on studies on male subjects, male this, male that. And that's where all of this comes from. And we're always trying to push and be like men. We don't even realize we're doing it. But for us, those moments, like they are powerful. They're really powerful. Yeah. you know, five minutes of breathing. Literally, just get yourself any YouTube video or an app or something and breathe for five minutes. You don't have to do more than that because sometimes it's just too much to do anymore, you know. Or just sitting, and I agree with you, like nature, getting out, you know. We're just made to feel that these things aren't, if we're not pushing, we're not being productive. Does that kind of make sense? It's like the real change comes from when we pause. and we just allow ourselves space and like you you're like oh it's that better because I wasn't all like wound up and doing this and that and the other and I wasn't on my phone I made a concerted effort not to be on my phone and to not watch anything

SPEAKER_00: If interesting or read anything interesting, like I'm noticing that I'm very easily stimulated too. So it's like, yeah, I don't watch too much TV anyway, but I had been watching a series that's an Australian author wrote this really cool book that I loved. And it's now a series, but it's the series centers around a really traumatic childhood with lots of drug taking of the parents and stuff. And I watched one the other night and I dreamt about it all night. And I was just like, you just can't do that anymore. You are really sensitive or more susceptible. I don't know what it is, but it impacts you much more. So if you're going to watch it, don't watch it before bed and, you know, make sure there's some downtime in between.

SPEAKER_01: It's so true. I've been like that too. Even a book, if there's too much, I've read one, it was brilliant, but it was very dramatic. And I kept on, it was about a child that had been put up for adoption, but a really terrible like childhood like that. And all night long it was like, and I was like, oh no, I need to read like sort of mildly trashy, but quite nice.

SPEAKER_00: Country romances is my current favorite genre. Country romances with a little bit of, my friend Lauren says, a little bit of smut, but not too much. It's just like, that'd be my speed. I can't handle too much these days, but yeah, it just finding things that, yeah, I, as we're talking and you're talking about all of the different things that you can lay into this approach. I know you started off saying befriending your hormones, but it's almost like it's befriending your hormones is the entry point, but befriending yourself is really what you're actually helping people understand how to do.

SPEAKER_01: Yeah. They are, you know, this is kind of like a bit of a philosophical ending potential, but like, you know, potentially, but it's like, I always quite ask what is me and what is my hormones? Because, you know, like it's a very weird, because hormones influence the way we feel so, so much that sometimes it's just, where is that line between this chemical and who I really am? and I don't really know sometimes in all honesty that's why you're absolutely right it's not just befriending your hormones it's befriending yourself yeah self-acceptance at this next level because self-acceptance in all your dimensions in your inner autumn rage 30s sexy you know moments in your grandmother you know all of these and hormones actually give you the opportunity to befriend yourself in all these different states um so yeah it is much much more because i love it when somebody comes to me and they're like oh you know my pms is really bad i'm like oh tell me you know what i mean because i'm just like Yes. This is brilliant. This is where we're really going to do the work, you know, and I'm not going to tell you, oh yeah, no, I want you to come back in a month's time and tell me you feel amazing. I don't want that. I want you to work through this. You know, I want you to really unpick it. I want us to really understand what's going on. I want you to embrace it. I want you to basically feel all the feels and cry all the tears and then come out the other end.

SPEAKER_00: You know what? I reckon that's a perfect place to end because everything you just said is how I feel about perimenopause. It's like, this is shit and it's painful and it's bringing up all sorts of crap that I don't want to look at. But it's also for a deep purpose. And I really do feel like we are being invited through the eye of the needle to step into our wise woman years. And yeah, to just have that be a positive thing, not a, like I'm somehow broken because I don't fit into the patriarchal 30 year old, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I certainly don't fit into the, I will accommodate every need and wish that you have, sir. Cause I'd rather give you the finger than anything. Oh my goodness. You have been a joy. I knew this was going to be a beautiful chat because I love all of the content that you put out. Thank you for the work you do in the world and thank you for being a voice for yes, befriending hormones and ourselves because yeah, I feel like that's where the beauty, beautiful transformation is.

SPEAKER_01: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. Thank you so much. Enjoy.