Self Kindness and Kid Kindness: A Gentler Approach with Nina Visic

Welcome to "Wild + (Finally Fking) Free": Self Kindness and Kid Kindness: a Gentler Approach with NINA VISIC** A certified Mindful Parenting Coach/Head and Heart Mindfulness Instructor, Nina Vesic joins us.

Nina is the proud mother of three loud and rambunctious boys. After the birth of her third son, Nina had a lightbulb moment realizing she couldn't continue as a "shouty parent."

This epiphany propelled her into a mindfulness journey almost four years ago, transforming her from stressed and overwhelmed to cool, calm, and deeply connected with her children.

Through her Mindful Parenting Community, Nina shares invaluable skills to help parents regulate their emotions and embrace a gentler, kinder approach to parenting.

Key Highlights:

🧘‍♀️ Mindful Parenting Transformation: Nina shares her personal journey from stressed and overwhelmed to cool, calm, and connected with her children through mindfulness.

🌿 Empowering Parents: Discover how Nina helps Mums and Dads regulate their own emotions and adopt a gentler, kinder way of parenting through her Mindful Parenting Community.

👩‍👦 Connecting Families: Learn how mindfulness can deepen the bond between parents and children, fostering a nurturing and supportive family environment.

Ready to embark on your own mindfulness journey and transform your parenting experience? 

Visit Nina's website at Mindful Parenting Lifestyle to access valuable resources and learn more about her mindful parenting approach.

Join Nina's vibrant community on Facebook at Mindful Parenting Lifestyle and on Instagram at Mindful Parenting Lifestyle for daily inspiration and support.

Take the first step towards becoming a calmer, more connected parent today!


Explore our previous episode related to this topic:
Season 1 Episode: "Disrupting Diet Culture with Bianca Skilbeck"

__

Come Say Hi on Instagram

Download your FREE True Sidereal Human Design chart here 

Or take the Free Visibility Blocks in Entrepreneurship quiz to uncover which visibility fear is muzzling your magic here 

Transcript

Nina  00:00

I do know that I am the kindness that I can show myself now is what was missing before. And the fact that I can stop and try to see things from another point of view. Can I tell you a story that happened just this week with my sons. So we have a parent retreat on the second story of our house. And we've always lived downstairs because we wanted to be close to the boys with their their bedrooms. But last week, we moved upstairs. And then my middle child, he's five every night for the last 10 Nights has come up to our room at two o'clock when he cuddles saying that he feels scared and alone. And that was nice the first night, but I was getting really tired. I couldn't cope, it was too hard. And I think in the past, I would have just said, just suck it up and send it back to bed crying and just gone up and gone to sleep, and then felt guilty about it. But because I have some of these skills now and I'm a bit more aware of what's happening, we got to have a really good chat about what was going on all three of us the three boys and me about what was actually going on and why he was feeling that way. And it turns out he was because it was a guest room upstairs. He was worried that we were going to leave because all the guests come they stay up there and then they go home. And so that's what he was worried about. So he was checking every night that we were still there. And if I hadn't taken the time to actually dig a bit deeper and figure out what was wrong. We wouldn't have had that nice conversation

Kylie Patchett  01:32

Hello there and welcome to wild and finally fucking free where midlife isn't a time of crisis but a time of metamorphosis. Just like the journey through puberty and pregnancy to postpartum. And midlife transition is also a powerful portal of rebirth. The wise woman inside of us is calling, inviting us to slow down to take stock to speak our truth. To burn away all that no longer serves us ready to step forward into our next phase of life. I'm your host, Kaylee Padgett, storyteller and midlife Self Care Coach. And together we'll on earth the real and real stories of women who are right in the messy, magical middle, or have come out the other side, and the healers who help all of us through these crossroads of change. I hope that as you listen to these tales of breaking the ties that bind shedding skins and courageously chasing midlife dreams, that you too will answer the wise woman's invitation and set yourself wild and finally fucking free. Let's dive in.

Kylie Patchett  02:37

Hi, everybody, welcome to the podcast. I have the beautiful Nina Visic ah, the I was gonna get it right, but I didn't. In the podcast room today, we have so much to talk about, and many like interlinked things that I've also lived through. So I'm really looking forward to this chat. So welcome, Nina, how are you? Great, Kylie. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to share all this stuff with you. That's so good. I know we are in a mastermind together. And I when you were talking about what you do, I was like, Oh, my God, I needed you about 18 years ago.

Kylie Patchett  03:09

Yeah, for those who do not know already have you? Could you please introduce your beautiful self, 

Nina  03:16

I will. So I am a mindful parenting coach. I started my business a few years ago, predominantly because I have three little boys. And I need to be a mindful parent to them. And so I was struggling when the youngest was born, I did a mindful parenting course. And it just totally transformed my life. And I realized that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to share mindful parenting with others so that they can transform their life live their karma, best life. So I started mindful parenting lifestyle. And I'm learning all that more about mindfulness, self regulation, communication tools, and really delving into those things that we think that we have to live with all this anger and this activity with our kids, and it's just part of the season, but we actually don't have to and there's ways we can work around it. So that's what I do. That's what I share. And then my three boys teach me every day. I said How old are they now? What are they are three, five and seven? Were so okay. My youngest just started kindergarten this year. Yeah, it's still very full on. Yeah. I am relating so hard to what you say about we think that this anger is just the way it is. And I think I've talked about this on the podcast before the way that I was parented, I had two very different parents and excuse me in two different households. My mom was a person who was pretty much lived is regulated, so anything cause outbursts and reactivity. And then the flip side of that was her own shame and guilt around the outbursts and reactivity, which then I created this persona as a kid of having to fix that

Kylie Patchett  04:59

For her, and so I was just very messy. Grown up. Yeah, exactly. I did very early. I'm just learning how to be a kid at.Like, literally, but the other parent that I had was he was 55 when I was born, so he was much more settled in himself and really grounded and he'd had this huge life before me. So very wise, and quiet and completely nonreactive. But I just, I don't know, when my kids were little, I just felt like it was inevitable that I also would be yelling, screaming mother. Yeah. And I look back now and I go, why did I accept that? But I just thought that was just like you said, just.And that's why I wanted to talk to you. Because I think when we and particularly I know a lot of our audience is that midlife kind of thing.I'm really glad that there's different ways that have been more talked about and more awareness so that when our kids have their kids, if that is what happens in the unfolding of time, that we will actually have access to some of these tools as well. And then not just think it's just inevitable for another generation. So no, it's not. Can you tell me a little bit more about so when you said, like you actually said in one of the answers, like you wanted to get your anger and overwhelm under control? It takes us back to when that was the reality for you, and how you felt at the time? And how did you even find mindful parenting? What is it that kind of turned the light on the light? So I remember significantly, one day, it was just after my third had been born, and I was in bed, it was in the morning, I was in bed. And I heard my husband outside with the younger two. And he was yelling at them for something, I can't remember what it was. And I was from that. And then in that moment, I just felt so frustrated, I just felt oh my god, I don't want to live in a house where all we do is yell at the kids. Because I was I knew that as soon as I got out there. That's what I would be like as well. Yeah, I was in my little peaceful bubble with my newborn while he was asleep.And I knew that in 510 minutes, I had to get up, I had to go out there, I had to deal with these kids that were upset because their dad just yelled at them for something. And then I would get upset because they were upset. And it's just like this never ending, like a rut that you get into. Yeah, I would wake up like my first moment of my day and be thinking I'm gonna get through today, almost like when you're on a diet, and you're like, I'm not going to cheat today. Exactly what it's like. And then you get to morning tea, and you have the chocolate muffin, screw it. And then you just yell, and then for the rest of the day, you're just stuck. And the rest of the day is just like, When is he coming home from work? When can I have a break? When do I get to? To have fun? When can I when can I and that's all that it was all day looking at the door. I remember sitting at the door just waiting for it to open so he could come home. And it was horrible. And you think this is supposed to be this magical time. But it's not. And we put all this pressure on ourselves. So that's what I was feeling. Those are my feelings. I was trying to do everything and trying to do all the arts and crafts, trying to feed them healthy. You trying to be nice, have no screentime blahdy blahdy blah, the list of being a good mum accrued unless someone else is yes.

Nina  08:21

 And  I just I knew something had to change like I knew. And I'd been looking at podcasts listening to a couple and I tuned into the mindful mama mentor podcast who had listened to some of hers. And she was doing like some free sessions I should do. And I listened to her free sessions. Andthey clicked like they just clicked some of the stuff she said. And I was like, and so she was running a course. So I did her course. And so within the first week of doing this mindful parenting course I saw changes immediately just starting a three minute mindfulness practice every day.And I was very resistant to it. I always thought meditation and mindfulness was just who how, like,

Kylie Patchett  09:03

right  now.Even though I know that it's so good for me, I have a real Yes, I have a lot of resistance at the moment. And I can totally appreciate that exactly where I was. But I thought I'll do these three minutes every day. And during the three minutes, I'd look at my watch. And I'd be like, Oh, come on.

Nina  09:28

After the first week, and I saw how my reaction time had reduced how I was able to pause before yelling. And before I knew I was craving a five or 10 minute meditation like it's quite weird. And so I did the full course I saw all these changes, life was getting better. And I've always had this need to have a job where I help people and I could never figure out what it looked like. And then the lady that ran the course was offering teacher trainingin low and turns.It did. We did

Kylie Patchett  10:00

day I'd signed up. And it was based in the US, it's a US course. And I was getting up at 10am or 11am, LSR 11pm, every Thursday night for four or five months to tune in for two hours to do the training, that's commitment. And it was so good. Yeah. And so then I became a teacher trainer in this program. And it's made me embed the skills more and be more determined, because I think you can do a course, you can use it for a month or two, but then it just drifts off. And so when I teach the course, I do that the full eight weeks that then I have a membership, where they're continuously reminded of all the tools and stuff and you there's a community of parents trying to achieve the same goal as us. That's really how it all evolved. That's the story.

Kylie Patchett  10:49

I love this. I love this so much. I'm actually working with a client I'm writing copy for at the moment, and she has now got a grown up family. But her purpose is also to help people to

Kylie Patchett  11:05

basically nourish the mother and therefore the entire family unit, this ripple effect. And then as you're talking I love that Viktor Frankl quote between the between pause and response is sorry, between stimulus and response. It is a pause and in that pauses our power of choice to make a decision and the power of that those tiny little moments where you actually feel yourself up. It just makes so much sense to me. And I like I said to you before we started recording, yeah, I look back at some of the most of the time we were, yeah, relatively calm parents. But I definitely also had this story that I had to like parenting was like, a serious business because I had such a strict checklist in my head of how to be a good mother, particularly when my parenting was different to what I wanted to create. And those things included baking everything from scratch and live alone. Well, I got myself a Thermomix under such pressure and pressure, having the perfect craft activities. And we never ever put our kids in daycare because we had this big thing about and we're not going to do that we were not going to force him to develop a late bloomer, but I look back. And I just think, you know what I made it harder than what it needed to be. I was trying to attain some ridiculous, perfect goal. And in doing that, I stole away all the beautiful moments that I could have actually been enjoying, instead of ticking off a mental to do list that no one else gave two craps about just totally internal pressure. And I think that's the shift, isn't it? Because back in the day, like maybe when our grandparents were kids, you could they could do all that stuff. Because there was I feel anyway, it was more of that community. So the videos of the 50s and stuff in the UK where they all live on those long houses that are joined.The kids are running around and every house is at home. So you could go and get fit there for the parents. And maybe I'm wrong in assuming this I've watched Call the Midwife may too often.

Nina  13:10

I love it.And you had that sense of community and you could parents helped each other a bit more. And I grew up in a small country town. And I feel like that was a lot more like that kind of community in cities. It's not so much. But those lists of things, things that we feel we have to do. I remember when Easter It was after my son was born. So the first Easter and we're sitting on the couch while he was the baby was asleep. And I was saying to my husband, I can't just sit here and do nothing like I feel like I have to put the washing I have to clean the kitchen, I have to vacuum I can't sit and relax because I've got so much to do. And he's just an relax, you don't have to do anything. But that feeling that I wasn't enough that I had to do more. couldn't rest and looking back like now I know that rest is such a vital, important, vital part of being able to keep going. Yeah, exactly. Acknowledging that you need the rest, allowing yourself to have risks scheduling in rest to your diary. If you can, you don't have to do the jobs while the baby sleeps. You don't have to sleep while the baby sleeps. You just have to rest have a cup of coffee or read a book or whatever it is that yeah, I think the concept of rest like I still feel like I don't know, the 80s came and we were given this idea that you could have the family have the career have the this or that? Well, we get to have it all. And then I've received those memes everywhere. And we also have to do it all by like by definition like that sort of brought some of us have invited in and I certainly was trying to do that like was trying to manage a medical company had to pay and my dad had just had a stroke so he'd moved in with us off the cuff. I look back now and I just think what the actual

Kylie Patchett  15:00

If I were you thinking, there is no way a normal human being would be able to stay sane in all of those different competing pressures, but because it re I don't know, it repeated the chaos that I grew up in. So to me, it just felt normal. Yeah. And that is, I think, what I really want people to hear, even if even if you're young parenting has done like you get to, you get to be part of something different for the next generation as well. Yeah. And also, there's a lot of people that are having kids younger, so I shouldn't assume that if you're in midlife, little kids, I think, what would you say to someone who's it's not because of the blocks to this resting from others? Is it still the idea that it's the mother's job to take care of everybody else? And you're like the last one in the priority list? Yeah. Have we grown from that? That was definitely my mindset. But do you find this because of work?

Kylie Patchett  15:56

In terms of the rest? Yeah, I think I think the to do list can just get so out of hand. And I think there's two types of to dues there's the must do when cooking, or providing meals, I'd say cooking providers, the Oh, yes, providing clean clothes and providing a house. It's not full of disgusting mold and stuff like that. So they're like the musters but then there's, you don't like what you said, you don't have to bake from scratch. You don't have to iron like you.

Nina  16:27

I don't wash my floors every week, like I don't do that. I don't know how people couldn't even I didn't do that before I had kids. So I think trying to take some of that, that perfection out of the picture. And even thinking of ways that you can make it easier is a way to provide that rest. I have a cleaner that comes once a fortnight I've been lucky enough to be able to do that. And I see that in some days, my boys if my boys are sick. And if I'm at home while she's here, and she's mopping the floor, we can't play. So we're sitting on the couch watching a movie. Yeah. Oh, she's mopping the floor. And that feels weird. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. It's about taking those times when you can to rest and or another way is incorporating those acts. So if you need to bake with your kids and make it a fun activity with them, yeah, don't put the pressure don't wait till bedtime to do some of these things. Can you incorporate them into it? So that then at bedtime, you've got more time to rest? Yeah. And it's that whole thing, putting your life oxygen thing for the kids, you need to be able to do that. Because you can't parent if you're tired or feel overwhelmed. If you're depleted. You can parent but you can but not very well. Not the way that you would like to say that. Yeah, because then there's no judgment. I'm listening to to what you're saying. And I'm like, at the same time that I had external pressures that were pressures, obviously, that were just reality, like tickets, and I'm not willing, whatever. I also had this ridiculous perfectionist, I kind of look back at some of the ways that I did things anyway, that's fine. I would wait until everyone was in bed to do my baking from scratch because I was such a neat freak. I couldn't handle mybeing out of control. And now I actually look back and I end with great self compassion, and a lot of grace for myself, could look back and go, you were so dysregulated you had also had undiagnosed ADHD, which doesn't help but also tipping into almost no, I won't say that I had OCD but that very like, everything has to be controlled because I not safe if I don't know what's going to happen and things being untidy. Like I'm still like that. Now if my office is untidy, for instance, I've got to clean it out because I've my head feels untidy, and I just think that personality, but he has so much internal pressure. So it was not just the external must do is yes, I must look after my dad and take care of my kids and provide me it was a whole the shit that I

Kylie Patchett  19:08

just think

Nina  19:10

I know, all this stuff and some of that stuff, especially with the ADHD and OCD things. You don't have control on the needing to have control. Right. So it's a catch 22 Yeah, if you could let go of some of that control, then it just are like a recurring thing. And I guess and I really like how you said then Carly, that you look back with self compassion because it's easy to judge our past selves, but we parent, how we parent because of the skills that we have, and the resources that we have at the time. Yeah, just like your mom parented how she parented because that's what she was had available and your dad, that's what he had available. And as long as we look back with self compassion, we don't shame ourselves on how we've done things in the past. And then that's how we're able to grow isn't it? Exactly why not chatting showing beheading can have guiltabout things and the guilt is actually something that can help you to grow. Yes. And to learn and appreciate that we do what we do with what we have. Yes, 100%. And we, I think, now I'm so glad I'm so grateful that part of normal discussion and vocabulary, and part of it is because of social media, but we're talking about nervous system regulation versus dysregulation, and why some people are more sensitive to some stimuli. And why we can have I always used to think I actually used to think when I was younger that I was some like, really, like, there was something wrong with me because I had so much anger. And just like, No, you were dysregulated, your anger was unexpressed from decades past, but the the dysregulation and the disproportionate reaction to Yes, now I look back, and I go, Oh my God, if someone just told me, I needed to just love up my nervous system. And yeah, take some deep belly breaths, or when I'm just about to lose my shit actually put myself in timeout and

Kylie Patchett  21:10

myself from the stimulus so that I can come down when you say because you you've also trained in mindfulness more so modality as well. So I can guessing like you're layered on top of what you were just beautiful. Yes. Bumps. So you mentioned to me that you also help your kids understand how to regulate themselves. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Because I think that's such a big piece of the puzzle. Yeah, and it's not. And then it's not everything has to come from Mum, it's like, in my Well, resource moments, I can help other people around to understand how to resource themselves.

Kylie Patchett  21:47

Yeah. So I did some training with head and heart mindfulness, and they say, to become a mindfulness instructor. So predominantly teaching children, but also the same skills that can apply to adults as well. So with my boys, we do a lot of mindful breathing, we do a lot of gratitude practice, and we do a nightly meditation as well. So I have to say, at my son's school, they have a great program, which is teaching them all this. And so I think the two of us combined, we were doing really well, when my eldest was in kindy, his teacher said that he has a very quick reaction to things he gets angry very quickly. And I think he's still got a bit to go. But he acknowledges now when he does have those quick reactions, and he has learning how to pause and how to keep himself calm, and, and yeah, so we have this beautiful routine at nighttime, where we all say what we're grateful for the day, we all we put, we used to do mindful breathing, but it got a little bit out of hand and just made bedtime, way too late, because they all wanted to do their own line, I knew I need a drink of water. Yeah. And then I put on a meditation, which is weird meditation, it's more of a story, which has a little lesson in it as well. So teaching them these skills is important. And I think role modeling the skills is also very important. I feel that I'm getting angry, or getting stressed out. I verbalize what I'm feeling. So I'm feeling really angry right now. And I do a really obvious mindful breath. So I might do the waterfall breath where you put your hands above your head and go. So they can see I'm not just closing my eyes and breathing, I'm doing an action so they can see that's what I do to help them with their regulation. And my son now when he sees me start to get angry, he tells me to do it at breath, he goes deep breaths, Mobb Deep breaths. And that's really cool. So and the school has taught them this as well as and this is what I also teaches at different parts of the brain treated like animals. I don't know if you've heard this. So their frontal cortex is the wise owl, the amygdala, which is the part that with the flight, fright, and freeze is the guard dog. So when you're angry, and you're stressed out, your guard dog gets really big to protect you. And then the wise owl has to swoop in and calm him down. So it's a great kind of picture of what it's like. So if I can see that he's getting cross he got a dog really big right now, where's your wise owl? Can you get your wise owl in to help you out? And that really helps as well. So

Kylie Patchett  24:07

good, because then it's giving language and also a visual cue, which is so good for kids about, yeah, what's more active in me at the moment, and I think to like, before I started studying like yoga and meditation and came to it when my kids were little, and I just remember thinking, How did I not know that if I was in this reactive state, I'm not able to problem solve my emotional being is fired up. And particularly in that fight and flight or lizard brain is to call my lizard brain Brian is up. Yeah, and just those simple things that now your kids and they'll be role modeling, at school and in their own life as a manager. They're the ripple effect that you know when they're somewhere in there. or teenager? And yeah, rather than being the kid that bops someone on the nose or bring off or is able to, yeah, calm their farm enough to go, oh, maybe not, maybe not the best solution.

Kylie Patchett  25:13

And then even if they have lost it, if they do react, my eldest does have a habit of reacting quite quickly, as I said, we can talk about it afterwards. So what could you have done in that situation? Even would you like to have another go at handling that situation that way? Yeah. The other thing we like to do is yoga poses. We do lots of yoga poses. And I sang was in a dance class, he started dance classes. And the teacher told me afterwards that as they were doing all their stretching sequences and stuff at the start, and the end, he kept yelling out the name of all the poses. He was like, yes.

Kylie Patchett  25:50

My kids when they were kind of the middle years of primary school, we moved, we've moved around a lot then also now looking back at he, anyway, but when we moved to the Sunshine Coast hinterland, they went to a barefoot Buddhist school in Mulaney, which is just oh my goodness, heaven on earth. It was like 60 acres in the rainforest, beautiful river through it was called River School. Still around at the moment, kids still talk about being there. And the fact that they had their lessons outside, there was no structure. It didn't follow a silt satisfy the curriculum of Queensland but it was completely student led a such a good school settle down using understanding and developing themselves as full humans, not just a brain on legs like. And when they were there, I had been learning yoga and meditation for a little while, and I and shiatsu. And so I started going to the grade three classes like, oh my god, they're so cute at that age. Yes. So the grade three class and teaching yoga and breath, but also different shiatsu points to add one that brings the energy down and the top of your hand and those types of things. And I remember this one lesson, the teacher is like, you know what, it'd be cool. We could get colored pins, and we could draw all these points on us. And I'm like, Oh, my God, this school is like the best place ever. Kids all had like permanent marker dots where it's all over their policies where I can said I can, I can. Yeah, and I gave them little mantras and stuff. But it's so Quebecers, they like kids, they're no any different. So they just dismiss it. But exactly like you said, you model it. And they're like, Oh, this is how life works. Okay, yeah, this is what we do. And I think what you're saying before about your eldest son, like the rupture, but repair, rupture, repair, I'm expected to be perfect humans. But when we do something that which leader may not like to that repair piece, and yeah, it's just such such powerful practices. And it's Yeah, I think there's a whole generation of us going backwards and learning this way of being. And that's what changes in the world when we have a generation of kids that are being brought up like this. What I can't even imagine bilities Yes. So cool. Like, it's like, let's just open up this window of, yeah, a different way of being. Yeah. Which is so good. I am interested in when you're so when someone comes to do the mindful parenting course. Is there? Like, how can people check in to see whether they are dysregulated? Or how, like, how, what sort of not using the right language? But how do you help them to sense that they actually need some timeout or some whatever? Is it just the reactivity? Or is it a kind of a process that you? Yeah, so we

Nina  28:39

talk about the festival, we talk a lot about mindfulness and how mindfulness works effects on the brain, we do some mindfulness practice. So the first week is all just about getting the groundwork. In the second week, we talk about awareness. So there's some nice activities for them to do at home about tracking the triggers. Yeah. So just for a full week, writing down when you yelled, or when you wanted to yell. What happened? What was the problem underneath? Does anyone hungry? Was anyone tired?

Kylie Patchett  29:08

About because I was perpetually on a diet trying to be a different size 100

Kylie Patchett  29:11

People remember you have to go hungry.

Kylie Patchett  29:15

And always hungry at three o'clock in the afternoon when the kids came home. Yes. So that's not a good? Yes.

Nina  29:20

So getting familiar with the tracking and what brings things up, also looking into their past their childhood, how they felt about certain situations in their childhood, reflecting back on that we don't go too deep, because I'm not a psychologist or a therapist or anything like that, but just touching just to see if there's anything that you might need to go see someone about any kind of deeper work that needs to be done. So we really get an idea of what what makes us angry. Are there any patterns? And then how can we minimize those So like you said, if you're always hungry at three o'clock, let's make sure we have a nice snack or to third that kind of thing. Maybe I want to eat lunch while you go JIRA don't go too crazy. All right. And then we move on to identifying the difference between when we have a problem. And when our child has a problem, because more often than not, our child has a problem. And we take that on, and then that causes us to be dysregulated. When in fact, it's our child's problem, not ours. Oh, that's huge. Once you can make that differentiation between if it's my problem, yeah. So for example, if your children are, if you've got two children, they're arguing over a toy, that same problem. We don't need to get involved in that unless it's going to get someone will get hurt. We don't need to come in all guns blazing and written the toy out and say you go to your room, you do this because your sister, that's their problem, it becomes our problem if they're dealing with noisy and we can't concentrate on what we're doing. But in the first instance, that's a problem. So being able to separate those two, yeah, it limits the need for regulation because you don't need to be regulated. That's nothing to do with you. That's a problem. Yeah. All right. You can do steps to go in and help them regulate. Yeah, like it all follows on so

Kylie Patchett  31:14

good. Yeah, I, as an only child had literally no reference point about sibling anything. So then I had two girls 12 months apart, chalk and cheese, like literally us it in every single aspect of their personality, even the way that they look. One super, super neat one super messy. Why they're just so different. And I'm like, Who are these aliens? I don't get it. Because I just expected that. Even when my second daughter was born, like my first daughter was born with really long, brown hair. Like so much so nervous and ographers. Like, oh, it's hairy. And I'm like, yeah, it's scary. I'm not a nice thing. We didn't know. Yeah, anyway, she did have a huge amount of hair, and then clear came out bald. And I was like, that's not my baby. I expected her to look the same. That's not how genetics work that they got know that as a geneticist anyway. And I constantly tried to get all up in the business of siblings figuring out how to communicate and work ways around things. And so I identified it as my problem, because it's like something is wrong. My children are fighting. And my husband who is 10 months apart from his sisters, this is normal. You don't need to get involved. Yeah. And then But then I think the other thing that was happening was, again, dysregulated nervous system already. And then noise is a real trigger for me. I just can't, I can't. Now what I would say to myself is get yourself some lube, earplugs, shove them in your ears and ignore them. Yep, tools like that. So the identification of your kids problem versus your problem is a massive differentiator, isn't it? It's huge.

Nina  33:03

And from there, then in the course, you learn the different techniques for each type of problems. So if it's your kids problem, this is what you do. If it's your problem, this is what you do. If it belongs to both of you, then it's both of your problems. This is how you can solve it. That kind of thing. Using Yeah, it's really cool. And

Nina  33:22

also you're modeling that again. So yes, you're actually showing the key to how to solve the problem. Yes, I'm good. So good. So good. I'm super interested. Nina, you had mentioned to me around about the same time that you did the original course or not the teacher training, you also did, of course, an intuitive eating and you said, yeah, there's all these parallels. And I'm like, Alright, let's go there. Let's talk about this. I'm very interested in what the parallels were.

Nina  33:48

Yeah. Thank you for asking. I love talking about intuitive eating. So I discovered intuitive eating around the same time again, as my youngest child was born. And I enrolled in this course I do lots of courses. And that's so the course so I don't if you've not heard of intuitive eating, I don't know if you've talked about it much on your podcast. It's basically about getting rid of diet culture, no food rules. Eating what you feel is right at the time, not putting any pressure on yourself, that kind of thing. It's, there's no such thing as perfection. There's no such thing as an ideal body or bodies are perfect. So that's what I needed. Because I was sick of feeling guilty for eating a biscuit. I was thinking Amen. Amen. So I did this course. And with intuitive eating. It's about tuning into your hunger signals and your satiety signals when you're actually satisfied and not just eating because there's a whole mouse bar, but actually not noticing when you feel full or when it stops to be nice starts to taste nice. So the first step of that is to actually learn how to eat mindfully. And so in this course, I think one was up to week two and the mindful parenting was week two, the other one was week one or somebody who will interfere samples to learn this stuff. Yeah. Was to mindfully eat some Tana. Oh, we the same activity for both courses. And there was a guided meditation and both and they were obviously different because they were run by the rest of the course but both of them asked me to eat us Alterna mindfully and I was like, wow, this is cool. And so I didn't choose this Alterna, I did a Tim tab. Why the hell not? And so that's when I realized just how similar these things are. So, tuning into how we're feeling inside when we're eating, as well as tuning into how we're feeling with our kids in this moment, am I feeling frustrated? Or am I feeling overwhelmed? Am I just feeling hungry? Or am I feeling tired? And when you're eating, thinking about Am I really hungry? Or am I bored? Am I do I need comfort food, and if you do need comfort, so that's not a bad word diets tell us we're not allowed to comfort eat, but maybe that's just what I need. Right now. I just need them. My comfort food is breakfast cereal, which is weird. I just need a big bowl of cornflakes to feel better. Yeah. And that's okay, I'm allowed to do that. Just like when you're a parent, maybe I just need to sit in my room in silence for a minute. And then I'll be fine. And it's really tuning into how we feel. And then deciding what we're going to do to solve that problem or that feeling or you're not even solve it how we're going to be with that feeling. Mitchell that passes is probably the better way to put it. Because you know, you can feel angry, you can feel upset, and how you deal with those feelings. Having that toolkit there. Yeah,

Kylie Patchett  36:41

oh, many parallels. Because I'm just thinking like back to my perfection list. As a parent, I also had a perfection list around what I should look like how I should eat, that I was either being good with eating or bad with eating so that blame shame, blah, blah. And like you said, if you get to morning tea, and you eff it up, then by grams, you know, that sort of effect. But yeah, the key to both is coming into the present and actually senses How am I right now. I used to I used to run a course called destination delicious, which was it was more of a life coaching program. And one of the key questions was, how can I honor myself right now? I was just saying to a friend this morning, the entire self care part of my business is such a shame at the moment because I'm totally out of integrity with teaching self care, because I'm not practicing self care. And she was reflecting back to me, you teach what you most need to learn. I'm like, Yeah, but this is ridiculous like them. But I think that how can I honor myself right now? How am I even feeling? And just let me put my hand on my heart and have a couple of deep breaths and go Oh, hi. I'm not just this doing machine that is. And I think that it's so easy with the especially with young kids when they have to be at school on time. And they have to there's such a kind of set routine. That's so easy to get stuck in the task rather than being present. Yeah. And doesn't really matter if we 10 minutes late to school, if it means that everyone gets their feeling. Yeah, that's exactly settled and calm and whatever. Yeah, yeah, the rules. I've actually i will link it in the show notes. I had I worked with intuitive eating, eating disorder recovery psychologists when I was first in recovery from binge eating. And we recorded an interview in season one, which is a long time ago, but I will link it back. And yeah, we talk about all of this bullshit of and also the farcical idea, and it's similar to the parenting thing. Like, what is an ideal mother, an ideal parent, an ideal family and ideal communication style? Like there's no such thing? And I would say particularly to so different kids, one communication style doesn't work for both kids anyway. Like, you don't even bother looking for the perfect one. Yeah, but I think, yeah, there's those parallels of I'm trying to attain this certain goal, but haven't actually looked at the goal itself. Like I haven't even questioned. What does that mean? What does it mean? And what do I like? What do I value? What do my husband and I value? What do we want our family to feel like? And yeah, like you said before, like the yelling when you were sitting in your bedroom with a newborn, I remember feeling like that was like, this house is like a battleground. Yes. I don't want to feel like this. And I don't want to continue that environment, because it had so many kind of similarities.

Nina  39:51

And you know what, as you say that I'm thinking like when I was in that dieting mind frame, it was like my mind was a battlefield like it was constantly totally constantly figuring out what I'm going to eat, figuring out when I'm going to eat it, looking at menus at restaurants not wanting to go out, I think my uni days, I'd meet a friend for coffee, and I'd have a black tea, because I didn't want the calories from the milk from the coffee. Yeah, and I hated black tea. And the constant thinking about you, and when you can't have food, to think about it more at home. So constantly thinking about all this food. And I was taught as talking to my husband about it, maybe a year or two ago since I started the intuitive eating. Because I'm not a skinny size six person, I'm not the person on the catwalk, and I do feel I have moments where I get self conscious about that. But when I think about how much richer our lives are, because I can go out for dinner, because we don't have to cook three types of vegetables with every single meal, we can go out and have a drink in the evening and not feel that guilt, or that failure, it opens up so much space in your mind to just not worry about that stuff anymore. Yeah, it's quite amazing. And when you let go of the perfect parenting, and you parent, the best that you can at the time, that leaves a lot of headspace as well, if I made a rule currently when my kids were born, and I tell them all my friends with newborns, these are my rules when I had a newborn. I don't apologize for being late. I don't apologize for a messy house. I don't go apologize for taking two days to reply to a message. Don't apologize for not washing my hair or for wearing a tracksuit that's just takes a big weight off as well, doesn't it like permission, I could never be the type of person that wears makeup every day because I just can't be bothered.

Kylie Patchett  41:36

I can't remember the last time I had makeup on.

Nina  41:41

And I have people come over after school and I might tidy up so there's not Magna tiles all over the floor. But I don't clean or anything like this is me. This is who I am. I'm not going to try to show that I'm a perfect person. Yeah. And I think when I do my social media stuff, I don't try to portray the perfect parent. I'm trying I try to be honest about the situation about how hard it is. And I do you have a messy house, I do serve chicken nuggets and chips. Like that's just life. And I think the more that we embrace that and share it with people instead of always trying to be the perfect person. I think it's just going to help society, isn't it? Oh, 100% I take pressure off.

Kylie Patchett  42:25

Totally relate to what you're saying in both aspects. The seeking of perfectionism in any area is so frickin exhausting, because it takes up so much bandwidth. And when you said life is richer, oh my god, yes, 100%. Because I'm not constantly thinking if I'm doing the right thing or the wrong thing. I'm just living and enjoying whatever unfolds in life. And yet, sometimes you're not enjoying it, but also not then going on. Now I have to rush through this bit to get to the good stuff, which is totally what I used to do. And now I'm like, Oh, my goodness, like we're just about to go away over the weekend. Our kids are grown up. They've got partners now. And we made this rural family decision last year that we weren't going to do Christmas presents that we would just go away for a family weekend because the crew needs more stuff. And we're going to this place at the beach, we'll be right on the beach. And I'm just so excited about it. And I am so much more able to just squeeze the juice out of life. Yes. Beautiful. Because back when I was obsessing about what I was eating, or even trying to parent correctly because of this stupid rule and said they wouldn't we had to clean the house. Why? Why? Because that's what happened White House when I was a kid, and I never even questioned that. That's what people do. Yeah, that's what people do to be okay. In I totally agree with you these rules like I most life changing rules that we ever had, we went on a cruise for our 10th wedding anniversary. So our kids would have been like five and six ish. And on the cruise, like you have different restaurants and one of their favorite restaurants was the smorgasbord because then they could pick a little bit of everything. They tried different foods, they tried whatever. And when they came back, I remember I think was Abby said, Oh, can we smorgasbord and I'm thinking that sounds like a lot of hard work. And then I was like hang on a minute. And I opened the fridge and we had this one long platter. And so smorgasbord night became a regular feature where you literally just got the boiled egg out the bit of cheese the celery the carrot the Yeah, like whatever. And still to this day my kids talk about smorgasbord night and yeah, then I was trying to do the perfect blank blardy blar and bake from scratch. And that's not so yeah, that's the juiciness of life and the richness. Yeah, I So relate to that. Because, yeah, this agenda of the right way and the wrong way. It just gives us out, like, I don't know, a stick to whip ourselves with, and you're never ever going to feel like we're getting it right anyway. Because even if you get it right one day, the next day, yeah, life happens. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. How has your the way that you feel like when you had that moment when you had the newborn? And that was like the battleground scene out there. Yet? How do you feel about parenting now versus what feel used to feel?

Nina  45:39

I think I get a lot more joy from it. Now. I do still find it hard. Like it is still hard. It's still challenging moments every day. And I don't always get it, right. But the difference is, I don't guilt myself anymore. I show myself that compassion so I can still enjoy it. I think being able to see how my boys have been learning from my role modeling has been as really great when they tell me to calm down. I love it. It's annoying, but I love it. I'm

Kylie Patchett  46:08

like, Go coach me. Yeah, I am the coach.

Nina  46:13

Calm down. But it's just, yeah, I think you can never look back retrospectively, I'd never done the mindful parenting course. What would I be like now I've got no idea would only live you know. But I do know that I am. The kindness that I can show myself now is what was missing before and the fact that I can stop and try to see things from another point of view. Can I tell you a story that happened just this week with my sons. So we have a parent retreat on the second story of our house. And we've always lived downstairs because we wanted to be close to the boys with their their bedrooms. But last week, we moved upstairs. And then my middle child, he's five every night for the last 10 Nights has come up to our room at two o'clock when he cuddles saying that he feels scared and alone. And that was nice the first night, but I was getting really tired. I couldn't cope, it was too hard. And I think in the past, I would have just said just suck it up and send it back to bed crying and just gone up and gone to sleep and then felt guilty about it. But because I have some of these skills now and I'm a bit more aware of what's happening, we got to have a really good chat about what was going on all three of us the three boys in me about what was actually going on and why he was feeling that way. And it turns out he was because it was a guest room upstairs, he was worried that we were going to leave because all the guests come may stay up there and then they go home. And so that's what he was worried about. So he was checking every night that we were still there. And if I hadn't taken the time to actually dig a bit deeper and figure out what was wrong. We wouldn't have had that nice conversation, we wouldn't have been able to let him know that. No, we're not going anywhere. We've just moved. That's just any bedroom, that kind of thing. And that's those proud moments where you just think, well, I was able to help him with that feeling. I was able to figure out what was wrong. And all that three brothers all kind of talked about it together to try to figure out what was wrong. Why did he keep having to come upstairs? And that just that was just yesterday, but it just made me realize like how far that I've come on the journey and how I wouldn't have been able to do that before because I wouldn't have known how to and I wouldn't have I would have thought he's scared because it's dark

Kylie Patchett  48:29

would have made the story. Exactly you would have interpreted for him rather than being curious and actually going Oh, of course that feels scary and threatening to you because you don't want Mum and Dad to leave. Okay, now I understand it. Now we can. So

Nina  48:44

he didn't come into our room last night for the first time. And we made a plan for six o'clock, he could come straight up. And that's what he did. He waited till six o'clock and you were gonna be there in a coma. And yeah, it was just it was really nice Kylie to be able to feel that sense of gratitude for doing the mindful parenting and learning about myself and how I respond to situations instead of just getting mad at two o'clock and sending him back to his room to be there and comfort him and figure out what's going on. Yeah,

Nina  49:13

that was my little story. Yeah. Yeah, you use the word kindness to yourself. But it sounds like both unfold at the same time. And so can be kinder and more present to my kids. And I can be kinder and more present to ourselves. So that I think maybe if someone had talked to me about this stuff before, I may have felt like it was just something else I had to give my kids and it was going to cost me more emotional bandwidth. And I was already feeling fried. Whereas I think what you've just shared really is a beautiful demonstration of how gentleness and kindness becomes a way of end we're not saying 100% but more of a default than it may have been previously. And so then you can also have a default of that towards yourself. Ah, yes. Like, how beautiful. Are you reminding me somewhere? I think it might have been on Instagram. I haven't listened to the actual episode but rich role was interviewing someone, a gentleman, who was a parent who was telling this story. I don't even know who this is. So there's literally no reference point. But I just want to share the word. Yeah. Because it's resonating with what you just shared. He, his daughter, who was about six or seven was on his back. And she was holding on to quite tight around his neck. And he said, I said to her, Hey, hang on. And, and then, when she got off his back, he could see that from her body language, she would have been impacted by the way that he interacted with her. And he said, or you said something like, I am noticing that you might have if you didn't put words into her mouth, but did you feel something then when dad reacted the way that he did? And she said, Yeah, I thought you were angry with me. And the phrase that he kind of repeats is, no matter what happens, you're always loved. And you're always safe. And I just thought, Ah, got it. Good lord. Right. Done, tick. Okay. Yeah. Cool, because then she has the skills to be able to do that to other people. And notice, and it's also reminded me, Jane Foster, who we just interviewed, about four episodes ago, she teaches emotional resilience in schools. And she was talking about the way that in the schools that have introduced her way of looking at emotions, which she just describes his rough and smooth, which I thought, okay, because it's very good or bad. It's just revelatory. And are we on the road and kind of the cars doing okay, or are we out of control that kind of that? Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And she described a conversation that happened in the school where someone who had been identified and labeled as a bully did something that would have been interpreted as bullying, and the new school reaction and also what they've encouraged students to do is, are you okay, back to the bully? And I'm just like, holy, jeez, Louise. So we've now just not labeled the kid not labeled that the behavior is a problem just that the behavior is seeing a message and may Yes, some that person needs some. Yes, gentleness and kindness. Yeah, exactly. Amazing. Ah, so grateful for people like you people like her and the work you're doing in the world because I yeah, like we said before, what happens to the world when we have and also anyone out there with girl children around the same age? I think, putting in numbers towards me No, because some holy moly. Men that actually can speak about their feelings and yeah, and themselves. Yeah. Yeah, totally in jest. But thank you. Oh, my goodness, so much gold that you've shared? Can you share where people can find you on the interwebs? And yet, we will link the intuitive eating episode. But yeah, I really want people to be able to find you. Because I know a lot of people are going to be going hang on a minute. Like you. There's a little spark that's going to go Yeah, I am

Nina  53:16

on Facebook and Instagram, mindful parenting lifestyle. Instagram has some of those underscore thing is Yeah, and I've got my website mindful parenting lifestyle.com. Today.

Kylie Patchett  53:27

We'll put all of those in the show notes. Thank you

Kylie Patchett  53:29

so much to chat, Kylie.

Kylie Patchett  53:33

So good to share your wisdom. And yeah, I'm very much appreciating the parallels that you've shared between. Yeah, in too late because it's just another example of impossible standards and disconnection from ourselves. So if you can come to connection with yourself and learn kindness,

Kylie Patchett  53:50

then it ripples. Yeah. 100% Definitely. Job

Kylie Patchett  53:53

done. Thank you so much, Nina.

Nina  53:56

Thank you. I'm so good. Appreciate it.

Kylie Patchett  54:05

Thank you so much for tuning in my friend. And if you enjoy this app, please share it with another midlife friend or take the opportunity to go and rate and review the show on your favorite listening platform. All of these things really help us to reach more women in midlife. Now, I don't know if you know but I am both a storyteller who helps heal as unhealthy as capturing communicating their work through the magic of storytelling. I'm a midlife self-care coach who is super passionate about helping other women reframe perimenopause and midlife as a powerful and purposeful time of transformation. To find out more about me and my work, you can head to Instagram at Kylie Patchett or my website, KP creative.com.au And that is KPKEATIVE.com.au and you will find all of those links in the show notes. Have a spectacular day and may you be setting yourself at Wild and finally fucking FREE