S1 E5: Going Beyond Limitations - Dr Richard A. Cross

Richard A. Cross is an empowerment and transformational educator and researcher in emotional intelligence, achievement, and motivation. Cross encourages his students to realize they are not bound to their circumstances but for them to understand and know they have what it takes to achieve whatever goals they set their minds to accomplish.

Cross received his Teacher Certification in Physical Education and Science from G.C.
Foster College, and B.S and M.A. degrees from Lincoln University-MO, in both Criminal Justice and Sociology. Cross earned his Doctoral degree from Clark Atlanta University in higher education with a focus on Educational Leadership. His recent research focuses on Emotional Intelligence and how it impacts academic performance. the prolonged and intensive questioning of changing the narrative of low performing students that leads to this question: Does an increase in emotional intelligence help low performing students break preconceived barriers to achieve academic success?

Cross is the author of 20 books, including Going Beyond Limitations and The Student
Oracle.

Follow me on Twitter @mathter.

Transcript

Megel R Barker  00:30

Today's guest is Dr. Richard Cross. Cross is described by his colleagues in higher education as an insightful, purpose driven change agent. Dr. Cross is educated in Jamaica and has advanced degrees from Lincoln University and Clark Atlanta University, where he completed his doctoral degree in Educational Leadership. His current research interests are in emotional intelligence and he's looking at how it impacts academic performance for students. Dr. Cross is the author of over 20 books, including Going Beyond Limitations, and The Student Oracle. This gentleman, it is my pleasure to welcome Dr. Cross, to Your Book, Your Story,

Dr Cross  01:21

Dr. Barker. Thanks for having me on your show. It's a pleasure to be here. And man, I'm looking forward to sharing with you and your audience.

Megel R Barker  01:33

Thank you very much for joining us, our audience will be delighted to meet an author as accomplished as you. One of the things that we talk about, we meet many authors, you know, many of them have published one book, but as in the introduction, you are someone who have not only gotten past the first hurdle, you're know publishing many books. But Dr. Cross, tell us a little bit about you, the person, like you know, I know that you're from Jamaica, but tell us a little bit about where in Jamaica you're from, and something for our audience to kind of touch the personal side of Dr. Cross.

Dr Cross  01:40

Well, thanks for asking that question. Or, you know, for me to share my story, you know, grew up in Jamaica, for me, it was challenging, you know, I grew up in poverty. And I was one of those people growing up young people that many people didn't realize that would be anything or think would amount to anything in life, because they judge me based on my, you know, my status, you know, being that we were poor. Yeah. So, and it reflected in my academic performance. So I was that student who didn't do so well academically, and then pass my subjects to go to high school. And in high school, I was in the bottom of the I was, as in Jamaica, they call it the dunce class. So I was in one of those classes. And but after two years, I got promoted. And I got promoted. And then I became, you know, joined the students that have passed common interests. So I didn't have the ability. But I think I was, you know, basing myself based on my social status. So I believe, because I was poor, I couldn't do well. And it reflects in my academic performance. So in high school, the only good thing was, I was a good athlete, but academically I wasn't doing so well. So to give you a bit of perspective, for me, you know, there were nights, we didn't have food. And I had situations where we didn't have electricity at times. And you know, that affected me because, you know, not having the things that I need. I couldn't see how I'm going to make it out of my situation. I just couldn't. But I still had that desire. Although I didn't know how I was going to do it. I had the desire to do it. And for me, it was, you know, track, and I didn't know where it was going to take me. But you know, I just keep on running. So basically, you know, not having certain things growing up. I used to think, you know, how am I going to get out of my situation?

Megel R Barker  04:23

Well, so we're in Jamaica, where you did your early years of schooling, where are you from? Where in Jamaica are you from?

Dr Cross  04:31

I'm from St. Alexandria, I went to Aabutthnot Gallimore High School.

Megel R Barker  04:36

Okay, okay. Okay, so that's quite a rural part of Sainta Ann as well, isn't it? 

Dr Cross  04:44

Yes, yes. Is in the country in the country, as we say in Jamaica, but beautiful. 

Megel R Barker  04:49

We now we see tourists trying to visit parts of the world that has those things, those natural things about when you were growing up, it was seen as a bad thing like you live in the country. I think the story you're telling me is that your initial attempt at passing the Common Entrance exam was not successful.

Dr Cross  05:11

Yeah, it was not. You know, I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do. Yeah. You know, it was just, you know, mostly idling. And because I didn't believe in myself, that was it. You know, I didn't believe in myself. And it reflected in my academic performance.

Megel R Barker  05:27

Yeah. And so eventually, I'm going to try and fill the gap here. You did the Grade Nine Achievement Test and ended up at?

Dr Cross  05:36

No, I went straight to high school. So like, you know, from seventh grade, so I went straight from Primary to High School.

Megel R Barker  05:47

Oh, so it was a secondary school in those days. At that time. Yeah. So,

Dr Cross  05:51

yes. So it's, you know, from primary school in Jamaica, you know, to sixth grade, and then you go on to high school, which starts at 11th grade. Seventh grade. Yeah. So 789. Yes, you do a test at grade nine, but I was already there.

Megel R Barker  06:08

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, what you said, at some point, you had an inspiration. Did that inspiration hit you before you finish high school?

Dr Cross  06:19

Ah, no, you know, to be honest with you. I had the desire, I have some hope that things could change, but I just didn't know how it was going to change. You know, because at first I thought, you know, for me to get out of my situation, it was going to be more academics. And I wasn't doing well in school. But you know, I kept running because running was the thing that was, I was good at. Yeah. So I will be the only one some days training. 

Megel R Barker  06:49

Wow, 

Dr Cross  06:49

that, you know, thinking that you man, maybe I could be a professional athlete? Well, I don't think we think I was even thinking of being a professional athlete. But I think, you know, seeing people running and going overseas,

Megel R Barker  07:01

I think that famous as well. Right? Fame was possible. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you said, so the running was what was leading you? Is that what you're saying in terms of your High School? So what really happened? What happened? First, the running? Did the running provide an avenue for you? Or was it was it education? Which one? Well,

Dr Cross  07:22

running actually. Running was what give gave me the opportunity? Yeah. So I graduated high school. I didn't get into college at the same time. I went on a youth service program. But I knew then that I wanted to go to college. Right. And a teacher Mr. Nam

Megel R Barker  07:45

was a teacher's college you're talking about?

Dr Cross  07:48

Well, not is a physical education.

Megel R Barker  07:50

GC Foster? Oh, yeah. Because that's where you are. Right. So okay. Yeah. You know, being that I was an athlete, this could be my way out, you know, in the same things that I've been doing, you know, I could coach track. So that was my motivation. So Mr. Nam, yes, said, Man, I'm going to help you whichever way or whatever I can do to help you. And I'm going to call the whoever I need to call. And that's how it started. Yeah. And then I met a coach in Kingston, Mr. Oliver, and he was friends with the vice principal or vice principal as the Foster College. Mr. Murray, and they made the connection and that's how it all started. Yeah. Actually met Mr. Olivier at Taylor Hall at UWI because he was there. Yeah, yes. So very nice, man. Very good, man. Yeah. So you went to GC Foster? GC Foster College, right. And I remember visiting GC Foster, it's almost one of those, I think there's a real potential that just got lost in that time. You know, I remember going there one day and feeling a little bit depressed. I spent a weekend there and spent a bit depressed leaving there. There were diving platforms and all these things that suggests that it had this opportunity for greatness, but it was never developed while going to school. Yeah, what was the feeling of students and even yourself while going to school in that environment?

Dr Cross  08:45

Well, you know, to be honest with you, I was just happy now. I tell you even get to start when schools start. And the challenging thing for me, I didn't really meet the requirements academically. So they were deciding to give it just to give me an opportunity. And then when I get there, then I'll do what I'm supposed to do. So I started so I have to travel from from St. And wow. For the first three weeks, every day.

Megel R Barker  09:59

That would have to be a long Journey. I mean, where would you come in through Mount Rosser. I know that coming down the hill right now.

Dr Cross  10:05

catch the four o'clock market bus. Wow. Yep. So that's how it started and then you know, because I said, Man, I have to, you know, get on take this opportunity. You say man, that's the only way we don't have no space. And then you know, I reached out to my uncle in Kingston. I said, Man, can I stay where you are. And that's how, you know, I found the first three weeks then I stayed there for about two to three weeks. And then a friend of mine. Well, he became a friend on campus. GC Foster College, Mario. Yeah, he said, I'm going to turn my bed into a bunk bed and let it stay. So that's how I ended up staying on GC Foster started

Megel R Barker  10:48

by this, the road to success is filled with people just offering helping hands, isn't it? Apart, as you know, it's strange, I'm talking to you. And in thinking about my life, I didn't do very well at high school either. I was someone with potential, but just never, you know, poverty. You know, as you said, the inspiration wasn't there. And I left with literally nothing. And I ended up in Teacher's College because a teacher decided that I should just go there and do the first year the preliminary year and see what happens. Yeah. And I went, and that's there it is 28 years, later still in education.

Dr Cross  11:32

You know, that's how it was for me, you know, GC Foster, I didn't have the requirements. You know, they just said, Me, you have you're an athlete, and we believe we can help you and I went there, and I passed all my classes. But ya know, that was like the start, and it just changed everything.

Megel R Barker  11:49

And that's life, isn't it? Sometimes all people need in life is an opportunity. They don't need someone to do things for them beyond opening that door, you know, an opportunity. And I think both of us being where we are know, educationally, you know, greeted each other as Dr., you know, he's right doesn't tell the story. It doesn't tell the story. Because people, you sit around tables with people at the same and their story is not the same. Yes, right. There's two or maybe even growing up in a house where their parents were doctors, you know, I know. Because become that. So it's really amazing that we share so much parallel this in that and then when I speak to so many people who share the same parallel. So you started your finished GC Foster College and what happened?

Dr Cross  12:37

Ah, I became a police officer. I didn't I didn't get a job as a teacher. One wanted, but I got an opportunity. But I went to the environment. And I didn't like the environment. It was somewhere in Kingston. And maybe it was, you know, too many violence. Yeah. Like happening simultaneously, if that the school was I was there during the interview. And I said, Man, I this is not where I want to be. And I went back to country set and I went to my community, and someone thought I was a police officer.

Megel R Barker  13:13

Yeah, you look like that's what they say. I looked like a police. Yes. Yes. So

Dr Cross  13:17

I went to the police station and asked the sergeant I don't remember his name right now. And how can I you know, what's the process? And he said, Man, you know, you just need to go here and do the tests. And he said, don't delay because the delays dangerous tests the following day. I barely made it. Actually, I think the lady helped me that was overseen. Yeah. Because you have to get 18 spellings. Right. Yeah. And she said, You only got 17. But you know, you left off an E of one of the words so unless you she let me in and, you know, she said, may you come in from way in Alexandra. You shouldn't come here and fail. Yeah. Which is? Yes. So she gave me the up. You know, so for me on this journey, and that's why I'm the type of person I am. I will give a person a chance because, man for me to be where I'm at. Yeah, a lot of people can help me you know, someone opened the door for me and that's how it started.

Megel R Barker  14:24

Yeah. So your GC Foster and I straight down it's coming straight down the bypass. You'd be at Twickenham Park, you know that?

Dr Cross  14:32

Yeah. Because I ended up putting on park that's why I love trainees. After you know, I didn't even know that Twickenham Park was right down the street but until you know I joined and I kept doing track. Yeah, so one thing I still Still I you know, I continued doing and once I was competing for the police force. I was at Miami classics and a coach Coach Thomas, this college that I went to here in the States. He was there to recruit somebody, a young man and I beat the person that he went there to recruit. Yes, he said, Man, you know, he could give me an opportunity, although you have heard about me before. Yeah, I got here. But, you know, after I won the race, was talking to him, he asked me how old I was. And when I told him, he said, Man, I can't, you know, you're a little bit too old for me to give you a scholarship. Walking away, I was 24. At the time, he was walking away from me. And I don't know where the idea came from when I shout out to him. So sir, if you want to know what someone does with an opportunity, give it to me. And he stopped and said, Alright, see me after the track meet. And you know, the rest of the history, I came to Lincoln. And everything changed to be honest with you, like academically in Jamaica was just an average student just after I came. When I started Lincoln, after my first year, I became a top student on campus with the highest GPA as a student athlete. And I haven't turned back since.

Megel R Barker  16:11

Wow. Wow. What is it said? You want to see what happens when you give someone an opportunity after repeat that? That's what I do.

Dr Cross  16:20

Yeah, you know, you know what I what I told the coach initially, when he said many were too old. You know, for me to give it a scholarship. I said, Sir, if you want to know what someone does it an opportunity, give it to him. And he said, Alright, see me after the track meet and tell you, I can tell you he's not sorry that he gave the opportunity. He might be delusional. And he's still there working as the head coach for the track team. So I know he's proud of you know what I've done accomplish? Since he gave me that opportunity.

Megel R Barker  16:58

Yeah. So you you say you eventually move to Where's Lincoln University? By the way, Missouri. Oh, so that's up north as well, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the middle as well. Yeah. Well, what was that like living in that part of the world?

Dr Cross  17:15

Well, to be honest, I've never heard of Missouri prior to. Yeah. And the weather was a challenge was challenging in the beginning, then you get accustomed to it, you get used to it. Yeah. But you know, it's a little bit different. The environment is different in regards to, you know, cultural differences. So but you know, you adjust to what it's like, you know, being here now, Missouri. So you you finished your Masters on your Bachelor's at Lincoln link? Yes. And then you moved on to the decided to just go and do your doctorate? What what led to you deciding to do that? Well, you know, at first I was going to be an entrepreneur. That was the desire, I didn't know anything really about intrapreneurship. Didn't have any mentors and stuff like that. But that's I said, That's what I want to do. But before that, though, I was doing restorative justice. So I was working in the courts, helping young people to realize that, you know, the way of crime is not the way to go. But instead of taking them to jail, I was teaching them the impact of crime not only on themselves, but on their community, on the victim, and on their parents, because it cost the appearance to leave work at times because the parents have to come to the court to sit in with their kids. And you know, from someone who was a was a police to take, you know, when you commit a crime to jail to someone who start teaching and research of justice. So that gave me a different perspective. It gives you multiple perspective on the issue, right? Yes, yes. So I was also was a police officer, I wasn't really looking into why these kids may commit crimes. They're just criminals. So yes, so see them as criminals. And no, but restorative justice gave me the perspective to understand the reasons behind what they were doing and help them to change their perspective, our mindset. So that was it for me first, and then I moved to Atlanta. And, you know, because that's where I said I was going to be an entrepreneur was volunteering the court again with this, but always take my resume with me. Yeah. You know, so I was there talking to us and man, I'm looking for opportunity. I gave him my resume and said, Man, there is no way someone with this resume, don't have an opportunity. And he called the person, the dean of the school that he used to work. I said, Man, I have a young man that needs to be on our campus. And he called me like maybe the following day, and I was talking to the dean, that's, you know, Dr. Cole pepper. And I was talking to him. And at the end of the talk that evening, I asked him, When should I come in for my interview? He said, may you just did that was the interview. Yeah, he's say you just did. So bring your documents, your, you know, you things from college, your degrees and stuff like that. And I started, and that's how I got introduced to teach it. And I realized that was the space for me. And, you know, I went there, start teaching, never thought I was going to be a teacher, it wasn't something on my mind to do. But I realized that I was having a good time with the students, the students, you know, I'm connecting with the students, because all of those students were similar to me, you know, growing up in poverty, you know, no one believed in them. And I made the connection instantly. And where I need to be so I can inspire those who may have been told they couldn't.

Megel R Barker  21:10

That's that's a powerful story. So while you're making all of these doors are being opened, in some ways, you're not only walking through those doors, but you're going in and make own in that space. And, you know, amazing things. You started, you got shifted from being teaching and studying, and decided you wanted to write when did that bug bit? And yeah, when did that start?

Dr Cross  21:43

Well, you know, to be honest with you, it started in college. You know, before I even believe I someone was writing, I believe I could do it, because they're doing it. So I started writing points. And so my actual first book is, is the experience through the human eyes. I published while I was in college, published back in 2010. While I was in college at Lincoln, okay. Yes, so but that first book was more so about my experience growing up in poverty, the challenges that I've seen around me, and the difficulties, so that was about the experiences through the human eyes. And that, friends, it goes into me, wanted to share my story. So I went to a school to speak. And I was sharing with the person that brought me in, you know, this is what my story is, yes, man, we need to hear that story. That story needs to be in a book. And I went home, I was thinking about the topics that I need to so I sent a bunch of topics to her. And she said, No, that's not the topic we want. So and then I sent to her the following day, going beyond limitations. That's it. And that was when I decided I'm going to write what I'm going to talk about, believe it or not, I wrote almost 8000 words, in one sitting. And I said, Man, this can't be a speech, this has to be a book. And that's how Going Beyond Limitations started. And that's what gave me the idea of how to structure it as I go forward. But it was going to be limitations that gave me the blueprint of how I can write my books, okay. You know, not to say all the books to one night, but I kind of focus now on how I'm going to write the book base and how I started with Going Beyond Limitations

Megel R Barker  23:54

so that gave you a motif that you kind of use now, as you're kind of like, when I'm writing I know how I'm gonna approach this. Do you have a strategy for making sure that you are committed to your writing?

Dr Cross  24:07

Well, you know, I think naturally, I'm a disciplined person naturally. So once they said, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it doesn't matter how long it takes our our, if I have to stay up some extra hours, I'm going to do it. But when it comes to writing, you know, what I realized, for me, is to have an idea of what I want the book to be about. Once I have the idea, I kind of put the points, the table of contents, you know, these are the things that I'm going to be writing. And once I do that, then I can write on all those topics. But what a lot of people when it comes to writing their books, they feel as if they have to write all their thoughts at once, you don't have to. So once you have the idea aerated, and then you move on to the next idea, you see when you go back and you read him through what you already wrote, then you may have some you want to share in that section. But and also, you know, some people think that they have to be so perfect. Yeah. So they keep editing, they keep edits adaptive will never finish. Yeah, you can share that point in another

Megel R Barker  25:31

book. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Because as I was just another recent interview, and books have many editions. Whenever you open books, you'd say this is the seventh edition or the eighth edition, which means as you said, you can actually re release a book by adding on improving and changing some data, add a chapter to it. And so I think the point is not to aim for perfection. Yeah.

Dr Cross  26:02

Yes. Because you know, you want to make it you know, how, you know, take out the grammatical errors? Of course, of course, you know, you, you're not going to, they're trying to be so perfect. And this one thought, yeah, yeah. Because if you do that, if every time you read it, you're gonna have something else to say, yeah, it doesn't matter. And it could be great as it is, but if you read it, there's still going to be something that comes to your mind that you say, You know what, I can add this here. But if you keep doing that you are finished.

Megel R Barker  26:35

Yeah, that's a powerful reflection there and something a powerful piece to share for anyone listening, not to aim for perfection. You know, I remember when we're doing a dissertation, they would say the best dissertation is done dissertation. And, you know, what? They would say, people will get stuck, need to learn that you just need a good enough one, not a perfect one. So there are many books, you've written many books on Dr. Cross. That's certainly something to be really proud of which you talk about going beyond limitations. And and for me, listen to your story. It seems to me that your life story is encapsulated by by this and this book, that this book represents your your story, or is it just is a discussion around life? Or is it like your story?

Dr Cross  27:27

Well, it it discusses My, my, my issues, my story, especially first part, I think it covers up to when I just got here. So I talk about the challenges in in Jamaica talk about the challenges that I have academically, because I want to give the readers some perspective, especially on where I'm at right now, which was at the time, you know, getting my Bachelor's degree. And my Master's degree at the time, so I think I've overcome, you know, the odds are beat the odds. Yeah, so I want to give the reader that perspective, that anything they want, they can achieve it. And it also covers some principles that I believe anyone can apply. Because those are the things that I did, you know, from letting go of limiting beliefs, to make sure whatever I'm saying to myself is positive, you know, don't talk myself out of what I want to do, based on a past experience, or based on what someone has told me. So you know, that's what, you know, the book is kind of about, from letting go of limiting beliefs. And letting people know, a lot of times we are the ones that stand in our way, based on past experience, based on the limitations people have placed on us.

Megel R Barker  28:50

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's powerful. Just to come talk to us, I just want to say that this is really an insightful interview. And I really believe that this will be inspiration, inspirational to anyone who is listening. Can I ask you a question around? I know, we talked about where you were, where you your life story coming up to now. But what are you doing now currently,

Dr Cross  29:13

the director of mentoring and tutoring at Lincoln University? Yes, so but I know, conducted interviews of flatmates across the country, because I weren't really I'm doing interviews of black males across the country and across the world, actually, to share their perspective on what it takes to make a difference in our community. You know, so that's where that's one of the focus and I'm also doing you know, well selling my books to help about 10 Jamaicans to go to college. So all the proceeds from one of my book will go towards helping 10 students. The goal is to reach 5000 copies. Yeah. So you have students to go to college. So that's where most of my attention is right now in regards to what I do at the school with mentorship and tutoring to help students to achieve their academics, academic success, and, you know, talking to black males who are actually doing the work in their communities to see how we can help change the narrative.

Megel R Barker  30:23

Yeah, that's a powerful initiative you want to, I think that's a perfect, so let me just restate what you're saying here. That was your one of your books on sale. Is that going beyond the limitations? Yes. So that book is on sale, and profits from that book is going towards

Dr Cross  30:41

helping 10 students in Jamaica to go to college. And you know why I focus on that, you know, because again, I got an opportunity. If someone didn't open the door for me, yeah, I would not be sitting where I'm at right now. So I know students deal with the potential, but they don't have the resources. And a lot of kids in my time when I was in high school, they passed 11 subjects or even more, and they didn't get an opportunity to go to college because they couldn't afford it. Students who could have become doctors, lawyers, we didn't get the opportunity. I've seen students in my time, graduating with subjects, eight 910 subjects selling shoes in the market.

Megel R Barker  31:23

Yeah, yeah. But what is powerful about your initiative, though, is that you've written your books, that people write books to make profit for themselves. Yeah. A lot of times, sometimes people want to buy a book. And they might think, you know, why do I need to buy a book like this nature. So what you're offering is a real exchange, where people can not only better themselves, which is like a win win for everyone. They can better themselves by reading your book, and learning how to Going Beyond Limitations. But in doing so, they're also helping someone else. Or I think that's a powerful framework for us to look at life where our actions lead to service. And I think, Dr. Cross, you're an inspirational person. You know, you've shared some nuggets today, some real nuggets about how to write and how we get about writing, you know, as you said, you are committed, but people need to be committed, that should not seek perfection. No, they definitely

Dr Cross  32:30

don't have to, you know, and make sure they have a framework, you know, start with the framework. And, you know, just know what you want to accomplish with the book itself. And, you know, they read their framework, what you want and make the commitment. Yeah, and, and also after, you know, maybe read on the topic that you want to write about doing some

Megel R Barker  32:55

research. So there you have it. Dr. Cross. Joining us today, on Your Book, Your Story, he told us his story, a story of poverty, to the point where no, he's Director in Mentoring at his alma mater. He's written books, but he's also selling his books and using those that money to help less fortunate students give them opportunities that they didn't have before. So if you wanted to have a reason for writing that book, there is one, just that you could certainly use it as a way to tell your story, and then use your story to help someone so Dr. Cross, it was a delight having you on the program. You are truly inspirational. And thank you for coming on your book, your story.

Dr Cross  33:40

Thank you, Dr. Barker. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and to share with the audience so many It's a pleasure.

Megel R Barker  33:49

Yeah. Just before you go, just tell us where can people get this book?

Dr Cross  33:54

Oh, you can get the book on few different places. A few different places. Going on.com You can also get it on Amazon. Okay. And also, it will be on Richardacross.com.

Megel R Barker  34:09

Okay. But Amazon if someone's trying to get it, most people have Amazon accounts easily. They can get in and you can buy it there. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Thank you for coming on the show my friend.