How Connectivity is Shaping Digital Display Experiences with Sheldon Downey

This week we’re diving deep into a niche industry that has started to become reliant on connectivity to keep its content fresh, relevant, up-to-date, and maintain consistency across hundreds of thousands of devices. 

We’re talking with Sheldon Downey from InstoreScreen and an expert on the use of high-tech digital signage for use in advertising and creating unique retail shopping experiences.

Sheldon shares several stories to help paint a picture of where connected systems are going. For example, we cover how the physical and digital worlds are coming together in what’s called an endless aisle experience and what that means for us as consumers. In addition, we spend a fair amount of time discussing the operational challenges that deployment teams face, the hurdles facing IT, and the role that real estate teams play in putting more technology into retail locations. 

I could keep going, but I don’t want to spoil some of my favorite parts of the conversation — you’ll have to keep listening to find out the rest.

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to Conversations and Connectivity. I'm Ryan Carlson, your host. This is a podcast for the IOT professionals and product leaders responsible for building growing, executing, and at times educating others about the role that connectivity operations plays within their organizations. You may not have the job title, but you've got the emotional scars to prove that you've been doing the job anyways. If learning how others are harnessing connectivity in the industries that they serve. Well, you're in luck because this week we're diving deep into a niche industry that has started to become reliant on connectivity to keep its content fresh, relevant, up to date and maintaining consistency across hundreds and thousands of different displays. Well, that's hundreds of thousands, not just hundreds and well, it's kind of a little bit of each because we're talking with Sheldon Downey from InstoreScreen, who's an expert on the use of high tech digital signage for use in advertising and creating unique retail shopping experiences. I'll admit I'm scratching the edge of curiosity in this conversation in order to learn more about how digital signage is evolving into highly interactive shopping experiences, just like we see in science fiction movies. Sheldon shares, great stories to help us paint a picture in our minds of where connected systems are going. For example, we cover how the physical and digital worlds are coming together and what's called an endless aisle experience. And what that means for us as consumers and for retailers that are trying to improve these experiences. Now in addition, we spend a fair amount of time discussing the operational challenges that deployment teams face the hurdles facing IT. And the role that real estate teams play in putting more technology in their retail locations. Yeah, I'm going to let you noodle on that one a little bit. You see, because I could keep going, but I don't want to spoil some of my favorite parts of this conversation. You're just going to have to keep listening to find out the rest. This recording is brought to you by Soracom a global connectivity service provider that believes that the fastest way to cost savings and scale is when customers are in full control of their connectivity, operations experience, self service pay. As you go global connectivity without a contract today at Soracom.io signing up for an operator account takes less than a minute. And now. On to the interview.

Ryan: 2:28

Sheldon, tell me about the role that you play in the digital signage ecosystem.

Sheldon: 2:35

we're a display manufacturer for the most part. So for a number of years I've just been trying to, focus on, one to one marketing in digital signage with small form factor. so we're building small form factor displays. And over the recent years, we've partnered with Lenovo OEM, as Lenovo has been interested in growing an OEM business similar to how Dell and HP have successfully stood up multi-billion dollar businesses that, utilize Standard Desktop and other Platforms and they offer them to OEMs with, uh, you know, an image load or a white label, white box or, you know, even custom labeled solution. Lenovo's idea was to add, more display offerings and other, network management and other things as part of their offering to the OEM. And we got pulled into that. And, so my role over the last, couple of years has been understanding where we can, provide solutions to Lenovo OEM's customers through Lenovo and how we can support, the folks that are, working in the, in that business to, uh, promote products to the customers

Ryan: 3:46

So I'm hearing you sit between a large company who makes. Processing power and they're, they basically want to sell their stuff in the market, and it's your job to be in the market and translate market need into product fit and navigate that in between where there's deals and design and engineering. Does that sound about right?

Sheldon: 4:11

Exactly. And if you think about it, when IBM split the business, They sold the computer business to Lenovo. They sold the, POS business to Toshiba. And ever since then, Lenovo's been completely out of retail. So now as they get back into OEM business, a lot of that business kind of translates into retail. So having, a partner like in store screen, and the focus on digital signage can help them get back into that market. And so that's what we focus.

Ryan: 4:39

What would you say the most challenging part of that job is sitting in between?

Sheldon: 4:44

there, there are layers and it's a big bureaucracy, but it has helped us a ton in growing up as our, you know, ourselves. Um, customer's expectations are to have a solution. So that's all of our biggest challenge. And it's not unique to in-store screen or to Lenovo. Um, customers want a solution. They wanna know how much the TV costs So you gotta figure out how to answer that question cuz if you start saying, well, you need content management software and you need different content creation and you need network and you need, you lose'em and they're out the

Ryan: 5:21

And so what they want is they just want. Sell the product that the display has the advertising behind. I think it's a great opportunity. when I sat in your panel discussion at the digital signage experience show you had a story about working with a company that sells electric fences, would you mind sharing that, that story?

Sheldon: 5:43

Yeah, no, that's, it was a great, example of the power of digital signage and that one was interesting. we seen digital signage rolling out in steps. we had the, the early stages where it was simple and it was just, what they call shelf talker, where you'd have a USB driven playback, that was attached to the shelf. A little

Ryan: 6:03

right, a glorified, digital picture frame.

Sheldon: 6:06

Exactly, that's exactly what it was. And they lasted about three months and then they were gone. and then so as you move into a network solution and then into interactive, and then finally into analytics. But, this gallery, their opportunity, they've got a great product and farmers want it. But, so they're selling electric fences in lieu of, buying all the wood and however else you would normally do a fence. You can just buy the metal posts and then the wire and then you energize it and it, that's all you need. So it's a very low cost way of deploying fencing, but it's intimidating in retail cuz you'll go in there and they'll have all these transformers, regulators, and power supplies and. Coils of wire and all this, and you don't know what to buy,

Ryan: 6:52

I suppose it's a lot like the AV market too. oh, how long is the run? you're gonna have to have this much power going along a run of this much between the transformers. Like it gets complicated when you're dealing with. With a product like that where you're dealing with attenuation or power conversion or phase and all of that fun stuff. So that's a complex buying, buying process. Talk to me about what you did to solve that complex buy buying

Sheldon: 7:20

Yeah, so Gallagher had to find a way that their customers could feel comfortable and confident to make a buying decision. So we put a digital sign that, was just a lightning bolt in the Gallagher logo to make people aware here's where the product is. Then there was a shelf edge. Touchscreen deployed that was actually networked onto the internet. The farmer could go onto Google Maps and find his own farm, outline it. answer some questions about the number of, gates and what type of, animals and, some other. And then he would be given a bill of materials of exactly what to buy and the location on the shelf where it was to buy, and the sales shot up over a hundred percent.

Ryan: 8:05

That's fantastic. That reminds me of Home Depot or some of the local hardware shops here where they're like, Hey, you could build this project. And then it, puts out that build of materials. But that's fascinating that it was a little end cap display. And what I like the most is how it's creating that personalized experience. getting to go in and pick out, normally we say geo fencing in the technology space, this literal fencing, within your, you know, in geolocation.

Sheldon: 8:29

Literally on your own farm.

Ryan: 8:32

I know that's amazing. one of the things that I wanted to ask was, given that everything will be connected to the internet at some point, signs seem like they're a natural early adopter of this technology. from this application, with the fencing, that actually seems rather forward thinking. I've actually never seen anything that quite personalizes it, How has the internet and computing technology changed display and signage in your industry? where do you see the biggest changes? Do you have any like range of examples of what simple things or complex things

Sheldon: 9:08

generally when we first got started, everything was what we call OnPrem. software, would, if you wanted to go digital, you had to get a computer in the area and then it housed the digital signage software. And then you had another computer that was, at the display and then you managed the network that way. as we've moved forward and gone into SaaS, now everybody's come into SaaS now to where it's all handled on Amazon or, some other, cloud service. And, it makes it so much easier. Costs have come way down and, and also the ease of use is, has been, is much better. there's hundreds and hundreds of digital signage software companies that have all grown up. building niche, little solutions that, that have solved the problem generally. And also it's relatively easy to create that software. And over time, more and more of it has consolidated and we're continuing to see consolidation with the digital science software. And, more and more features are being added to, not only. Digital signage, but out of home advertising, network management, and now even analytics, all kind of being rolled up into one thing. So as we move along, it's just becoming easier to use lower cost and less intimidating for the end user.

Ryan: 10:23

So I'm hearing that, simplicity, ease of use, like these are benefits for the business. What type of experie. Does this unlock? we already navigated, around that one, around getting to personalize the experience through using some mapping software. What are some of the other online driven or internet driven signage, in-store signage experiences? Are you seeing.

Sheldon: 10:48

What's really cool is when you have technology, In the environment. the possibilities are endless. as soon as you can deploy technology into an area, you can have a customer experience, for where they can choose their own, information, they can, you can have endless aisle to where, okay, they don't have my size here, can I get it and can it just be shipped to my house? the experience for the customer, he still has, the retail experience of being able to go out and touch and feel, but also, To be able engage with the digital experience at the same time to get exactly what he wants and the exact color and whatnot. all of these kind of things are really making the retail shopping experience so much better. And if you think about, maybe a little bit outside the box, we're starting to see things like. Touch screens in changing rooms where you've gone in there and you've taken your shoes off and you've tried on the pants and they were just one size too small. you can, have the attendant bring you in the larger size. You don't even have to leave the room cuz you can communicate through an application. Things like that. There's all kinds of things happening now to where technology's gonna make retail experience so much.

Ryan: 11:59

You mentioned the term endless aisle. This sounds like a buzzword within your industry that I've never heard of before. What is endless aisle?

Sheldon: 12:08

Yeah, so once you've got a computer sitting there, if you're shopping on Amazon, you shop for anything, it's just endless amount of the things you can have if you're on the shelf. If you're in retail and you're at the shelf edge, and you want, a. a mattress cover for a king and you're looking for a specific product or a brand, and you come there and they're out of your size. you can use that computer right at the end of the aisle to or on your phone even to order the product and have it shipped from the retailer you're standing in to your house. oftentimes you can have it paid for on. So you don't even have to bother checking out on your way out. So that's a loose, definition of endless aisle. Endless aisle captures basically, anytime you're, using the internet to purchase product while you're in retail.

Ryan: 12:59

I really like that. That some really good languaging, like how you describe that. I really appreciate that. So if there's unlimited potential for upside and new experiences, does it also mean that there's unlimited potential for new complications that are introduced?

Sheldon: 13:16

Yes. well the biggest complications that we have, right now in retail is to the retailers deciding. Well, there's all these roles and responsibilities when it comes to the deployment and maintenance of the technology Uh, all of this, or a lot of it is very new to the retailers. So they have to decide, are they gonna outsource it? Are they gonna handle it themselves? how is their business model gonna change, from their current way of doing business to be able to deal with the technology. Uh, so there has been, That has been a hurdle, for the deployment of technology into retail. And, it still needs to be solved, but I think a lot of the retailers are relying on their, technology partners. And that's, basically like when we first started the talk here, we talked about solutions. That's what I mean when I talk about solutions. I'm not talking about pairing a display with a computer. I'm talking about how do you go to market with the technology in the store and who manages it? How is it, how's it handled? And, what are the new business methodologies around, leasing, gondola space, managing ad revenue and, and sharing of it. All of these things have to be brought into the solution

Ryan: 14:29

It, it sounds like what you're doing is you're talking about. The playbook that this business would need to adopt in order to integrate the digital experience into their workplace or their place of business. And it's not just a playbook, that's the build of materials, but it's also including who's involved on your side, on the vendor. What are the phone numbers to call? How long does the rollout take? What does the maintenance period look like? What does a changeover like? That's a governance conversation, an operational discussion that savvy corporations have already natively thought about, right? Like they have vendors come and go and do store outs and whatnot, but you know, smaller organizations are just thinking about the launch. But what happens? After that, right? Or what happens if there's a problem?

Sheldon: 15:24

we saw, Jeffrey Weisman of Navar at the, digital signage Experience show, talk about how digital signage had matured and the growth rates had slowed. It was a 25% growth rate and now it's 8%. Still remarkable growth rate, but, it's a given. Now I don't think there's anyone arguing that digital signage doesn't, raise sales over, printed signage. So that argument is solved and, uh, the industry's grown rapidly over the years and is continuing to do so. Solving the problems with this operational stuff where we're at now in retail. You know, um, only the most, easiest to solve and the most obvious have been deployed, as far as like general technology deployment into retail. It still has not happened because these operational, concerns and, we're still seeing a lot. Push from the brands to energize their areas with digital cuz they know they can get a and then the retailers know they can get a lift as well. But we have to focus on how do we bring solutions that make it easy for both and how do we understand their business so that we can make solutions that don't have to, require. Everybody to kind of rethink how they're doing business. So that's our challenge in the short term, is solving, those problems. And right now what we're doing is focusing on high value, high volume, high margin areas where it's just so attractive that you can't say no and then drive technology into that. And then we'll be kind of wetting our, our toes. Growing from there as we understand the customer's problems and how we can help solve.

Ryan: 17:14

So in a retail experience, the last thing you want is a blue screen of death, or the little spinning beach ball, or a out of order, right? It just looks bad, especially if it's got really beautiful signage around oh, this is the Clinique experience, or the, whoever it is. It's a big eye sore. Knowing that connectivity is being built into a lot of these experiences, both to create. Continuity of rollouts, making sure it's all the same content, the ability to make updates on the fly. You know, we could go on and on about why connectivity is great, but what are the steps that someone like yourself takes that sits between the physical and digital world to make sure these experiences think through and anticipate failure?

Sheldon: 18:03

ever since we've had, The network management software that has been available with the SaaS, we have the ability to remotely monitor and manage these which is, really great news because oftentimes, customers don't have the technology or the capability to manage things on site themselves. So having the network management software is And then, I'm seeing more and more that the content management software companies are providing simple tools, dashboards for proof of play, dashboards for. Uptime and, failure rates and how long it took to turn to get things solved. all of this is making it really easy for the end user to manage this business without having to dig into the weeds and, figure out all the details of, how they're gonna have people looking after these systems

Ryan: 18:55

Have you been involved in the design process where you know people, emulate failures or you have people push the buttons in the order that they're not supposed to? Because that's actually a fun job

Sheldon: 19:08

you have to, because I've never deployed anything where somebody, didn't do something weird. and that's the stuff that happens. so yeah, you have to be ready for all that, for sure.

Ryan: 19:18

So are you designing for failure in a way, saying what happens if the internet drops

Sheldon: 19:24

at this point. I think we've matured enough to where all of that's solved if the internet drops, almost every software I knew plays the last content that it had. So it'll just continue to play the content and, there's tons of. Fallbacks, like that, that are built into, the solutions. and for our part in terms of the hardware, we focus on, very easy ways to attach the hardware to existing infrastructure. 80% of the US market is, low year manic shelving. our displays are designed of snap into those shelves, so it's very quick and easy to install them or move them. so we've become very good at retail hardening, our displays and our solutions and so that we can focus on, how do we make this infrastructure, you're going to get the lift and sales. Now how do we make it to where it's part of the go to market for years to come?

Ryan: 20:16

So how often is it brought in for a signin install?

Sheldon: 20:21

always, but it's, in retail up to now. most of the time the only thing it's brought in for is to say no Cause uh, they don't want anything to do with it and they don't want anything. They don't want it on their network. and they're not you until it becomes their baby. It. Has to be separate. So most of the signage that's in retail now, sits on its own as an island in, in the store and is connected via wifi, a guest wifi or cellular. the only thing that's typically already deployed are that's part of the IT decision. Is menu boards, menu boards, is a broad category, uh, menu boards and digital signs. those areas where you've got'em on the wall and they're completely controlled by, you know, with ethernet into the network. And then, somebody has chosen in a content management software and those limited applications you have, its involved. but until we can get. Technology more into the middle of the store. so far that's been driven by the brands and so they're outside of the it, area. So the, it doesn't wanna take ownership of that stuff typically.

Ryan: 21:36

why would real estate teams be brought into discussions about advertising within a store like CVS or a bigger retail location?

Sheldon: 21:45

So as you think about, okay, the retailer, Hasn't decided on how, what the go to market's gonna be to deploy digital. But then we all know it works and the brands are anxious to deploy digital in their area. So they'll do a pilot and see a great uplift and say, we wanna do this, but then they run into trouble because the investment may take years to pay back. you know that you get a 20% uplift in sales. And then, you do the math. You say, we're gonna spend$5,000 to nap, deploy, pay back itself in two years, but we have a five year life on the system, so it'll become way on the upside. Over the last few years, what we found was is that oftentimes these retailers have real estate. Groups that are building or that are putting together contracts for those gondolas, typically the contracts are relatively short periods of time from anywhere from a month to, a year and then they rebid all those gondolas. And so it's a constantly changing price depending on traffic patterns and time of year and the competition from the other brands. A problem that we're having to solve, as we think about solutioning and understanding the customer business is, how to work with the real estate team to where they can put together a contract for say, five years or more to cover a large investment in hardware to be deployed. And so that was something that we were caught totally on par because we didn't realize that was a thing until we figured out that it was a showstopper until you did figure.

Ryan: 23:22

So if you can control what the level of involvement that it would have by, providing your own cellular gateway or, you know, getting internet not from them. So it's not on the same network as the pharmacy and the point of sale stations in whichever. but you can't avoid the realtors,

Sheldon: 23:39

The real estate guys

Ryan: 23:40

Because, it's almost like a store within a store, isn't it? At most of these places, I know grocery stores, like you're given, this is my shelf, like I paid for premium placement. And so that's mine. So in these retail location, Some of them try and create a unified experience, you know, the targets of the world. and then you've got these, all these little stores within a store. Is there ever a conversation about, interoperability or do all of these systems tie back to some master system for managing all of these things? Like how that just seems really complicated. how do they coordinate some of these effort? With all of that data flinging around.

Sheldon: 24:23

not very well, and they, we really have it up to now. So far the main focus of it in retail is POS. It's where the action is, that's where the money is. So everything is through that lens. And anything that could potentially disrupt the POS is a no. And so we always expect to hear no. and now that we're moving into, deploying displays onto shelf, we need access to the pos cuz we need dynamic pricing as part of the Um, up to now we've been getting. EXD files and, just taking, a kind of an Excel spreadsheet type of a file. that comes outta pos and using that with, marrying the two together without them being directly connected. And, so that's what's been happening so far. But I think at the end of the day, The retailers are going to start to digitize and they're going to, marry all these systems. That'll all be under it. It's just, so far really, like I said, the only thing that's happening are the digital signs and the menu boards. these one to one displays for point of purchase marketing. Like I'm standing in front of the shelf trying to decide do I want that one or that one. And an display tells me which one I want. Those displays are. Separate. They're not part of the IT group. And, we need to solve that.

Ryan: 25:48

So talk to me about the skills required for service and support, and have they changed the same people that you'd send out to change out a end cap with planogram, with the glorified picture frame versus what you're building now?

Sheldon: 26:04

You know, it's, it's a, it's a mixed bag. Originally the shelf talkers, were deployed, by marketing people, the folks that would go out there and, move all the cans into the new positions, and then they would attach, um, you know, the, the display and it may or may not stay positioned or there for very long. but then when we moved, Adding digital into retail, then, we were using 10 99 guys. you know, you, you would contract with one of the install companies. but they were typically, a management company that was using 10 99 contractors. So a lot of these AV companies are using the same. Deployment people, to deploy in, various areas of the country. and they just contract And the pool out there is generally the guys that are fixing ATM machines are deploying the latest, DRA updates into the data center. It's like, what? So now you're looking at$150 an hour install And so you went from, you'd send your own marketing people out that, were probably. Outta college a couple years and were really good with the phone. And they'd say, okay, now here's what I do when I get there. And they'd go out there with their box of stuff and they'd rearrange things and you'd get in and out of there for 20 bucks as your overall cost. Then it went to, okay, deploying the technology,$150 hour techs are out there, getting everything set up. We gotta push it back the other way now and. need to make it simple enough to where, marketing people, the store personnel, lower cost companies that can deploy the technology. And it doesn't have to be so difficult. it all has to be of pre and very simple. The install needs to be, very obvious. And then, the appointments can come way, way down in cost. And people realize this cuz they always say, how much is the tv? But, You've got about a third cost in hardware, a third cost in software, and a third cost in deployment installation itself. and that's a really great place to cut a lot of costs, not much deployment. so we're really focused on making things a lot easier than they've been in the past.

Ryan: 28:19

And what percentage of that is for after the initial install, what else needs to be done? Is there an ongoing cost or who?

Sheldon: 28:27

Yeah. yeah, absolutely. And this is something that I, preach regularly to partners. Well, anybody that's in experienced digital signage companies knows full well. there's a lot of costs after, you know, boy, but for newer companies, and we're seeing a lot of newer companies come in, and now that people that have the relationship with the retailer, Because they build like metal or they build cardboard and acrylic, or they're doing, the packaging where they say, okay, it's back to school and you get a box with all kinds of different products in it. These kind of companies are coming in to now offer a digital solution to where they're offering to their customer. I was thinking of one partner has a hundred million relationship with cv. Doing these kinds of displays. so a digital signage company that might have 5 million a year in turnover goes to CVS and says, we'd like to deploy a hundred million dollar digital signage solution for cvs. it's gonna end up at their corporate buyer who's gonna say, hell no. but this display company has this, multi-year, a hundred million dollar relationship. Them adding digital is a home run, for that buyer, cuz he knows he has leverage and he knows that he has, A company that's big enough to give'em a warranty and support'em. So we've been focused on, supporting some of these companies to be able to, deploy into retail. And oftentimes they need support where digital signage companies wouldn't. So I'm constantly explaining to them, you need spares on site. You need, a plan for a truck roll. All of these things cost money, you have to expect that hardware will fail, that things will get unplugged. that there, there'll be a jam up in the OS and someone's gotta pay for that. And so you've gotta put it in the beginning. So there's an expectation of the overall cost as opposed to like, okay, now it's been six months and we've got this ongoing cost and now we have to renegot cuz we never thought about it.

Ryan: 30:32

We call that total cost of ownership in our world as well. It's it's not about the day one cost, it's the day 100. Like what's happened between now and then? So I'm hearing you're already preaching that right from the get go,

Sheldon: 30:44

just to save my own skin. Because if you're the hardware vendor, at the end of the day, if the thing goes black, call. Call the, you know the guy that made the TV.

Ryan: 30:54

So you're making stuff that connects to the internet, who makes the decisions? knowing that this is gonna be deployed all over the country, maybe even all over the world. Whose shoulders is it on to make the decision on how you get your internet? who picks, oh, do we need Rogers or Orange or at and t? Like who makes the decisions on managing all of those is P level relationships to make sure the stuff can actually connect in the location that it's going.

Sheldon: 31:24

Yeah, I mean that's, that's all done by the retailer and they have, typically larger companies are using at t's of the world. and I remember, back in the early days of the McDonald's deploying the menu boards they were using, they actually had at and t put the digital signage application on their paper. And so instead of McDonald's, awarding a digital signage company that was relatively small, their menu boards, they had at and t give them the business and all ran through at and t and then it made at and t responsible to McDonald's. So the larger companies are gonna have those kind of relationships. The smaller companies are using third parties, one in particular, Sage net out of Tulsa. They've been deploying technology, particularly wifi into convenience stores, for many years. And a lot of these smaller stores, don't have the wherewithal to figure all that out. So they outsource the sage net and at this point, Sage net manage as like 70,000 convenience store locations. With their wifi and a lot of their POS systems, and now getting into digital signage as well. And I've seen that as something that's an interesting trend. once a technology company has a toehold into retail, then they're like, we've already got a computer there. What else can we, run off of it? And, over and over again, I'm seeing different companies that like mood media, they have the audio in there. that's off of a. So how much harder is it to run a digital sign off of that or matic, you've got the, you know, you gotta pop your tag before you, you go out or the alarm goes off. they got a computer there, how do we back into the rest of the store, you know, into signage and, say that's no different. So they just, you know, as they, um, because you get your technology in the store, you can build more and more solutions.

Ryan: 33:14

Well, it seems like that's a simple series of affinities. I know that most buyers, it's, it's crass to say they want one throat to choke right? But they want one msa. They want one piece of paper. They want one group to say, this ain't working. But it makes sense that if you've, you're already in point of sale, it's got a lot of the same dependencies as the music that streams as the advertising that now streams as the vending point of sale. that, that is a fascinating world to think about. Sheldon, what is the one thing that you wish people knew about digital signage and the internet and where things are going? Is there something you'd like to leave? With from me as an insider's perspective.

Sheldon: 34:01

I'm very excited about the industry. it's, it still has a ton to offer, and I believe that it's just a matter of one or two of the big, retailers. Deploying technology in more of a wholesale way, for everybody else to fall in line. And then we're gonna have truly amazing experiences in shopping, you know, where you can way more information and a much better service and a much boring kind of, effortless way of, being able to experience things out in the retail environ. While still enjoying all the benefits of digital. So that's, that's coming, you know, very, very soon. Obviously, that's, I'm a homer there because, our technology enables that. And so we're anxious for customers and companies to be more interested. but we think they will, and we're invest. A lot of time and money to solve the problems, to get, make things easier, to deploy and manage, and then ultimately make it more fun to shop.

Ryan: 35:07

That's fantastic. I think there's a lot of great new technologies that we're seeing that feel like they're right out of a sci-fi movie. We saw him at the Digital Signage Experience Show. I have a video of me walking in front of a display that's got a little camera and it guessed my age, like a carnival barker. And then it was displaying age appropriate, gender appropriate. Advertisements on the screen right next to it. And so, you know, that whole 2003 minority report experience of, oh, Mr. Yamato, you'd look very good in these genes, right? Like the holographic displays. And it's crazy to think that we are now living in a, in a time, actually, it's not crazy to think we've got the communicators from Star Trek, we've got Tricor with wireless sensing devices. We've got, we've got a whole world of sci-fi that is actually nonfic. And it sounds like Sheldon, you're part of bringing that futuristic retail experience to the shelves. So thank you for your time and sharing your insider's experience.

Sheldon: 36:09

You, Ryan, I've really enjoyed it and, I think you're awesome. So I'm anxious to hear more of what you.

Ryan: 36:15

Thank you, Sheldon. Take care.

Sheldon: 36:16

Thanks, Ryan.

36:19

There you go, you made it to the end. I thought that was a pretty cool discussion. I. I think the biggest takeaway for me was how we're taking an industry that. Uh, was staffed by a marketing people, you know, you're going out and switching out things on the shelves. You're putting up new posters. Uh, in fact, I even did planigram back in the day, working at like a best buy retail location or radio shack. Uh, switching out Samsung's latest advertisement. And now we're looking at all of these displays. When we go into an electronic store or even a grocery store. And these large digital's little displays are having content just beamed out to them. And what once was a job. Sheldon says it best as it was a$20 an hour employee. And now you've got$150 an hour employee that's responsible for deployments, but that also means for some of the upkeep and support. So, although there is a significant savings in automation in time. By digitizing advertising. Uh, digitizing advertising. You ended up having this. This moment in which you need to be thinking about. The total cost of ownership, right? It's not just 100% pure profit under the bottom line. You need to support these things. So like in any technology implementation, you're stuck with thinking about the long haul. So if it's a five-year placement, you need to know that someone is covering it over those five years, and it's not the same cost as the person you use to send out. All in all, this is a trend that we keep seeing within the connectivity space, the minute you connect the thing to the internet. There could be things that go wrong. And when there is something wrong, if you can't remotely diagnose, troubleshoot. And support it. Someone needs to go out into the field on that person. Needs to know enough to handle that. And Sheldon was saying that. in a lot of these retail spaces, the same person that would serve as an ATM. Is the one who's servicing a digital sign. And so it's think it's interesting to think about how this world of connectivity, operations, network operations. this world is evolving. And you may have used to say, yeah, I'm an ATM technician. But now you're going to be servicing a whole bunch of things in a convenience store because we're adding computers and security and routers and all of these things need to talk. And so that future world. Is different. And we're starting to see it today. Even if the job title hasn't changed. That's it. That's the story for today. And I'm sticking to it. Thanks for tuning in.