Leaders with Leverage: Adopting a Negotiator Mindset

Virtual presence and non-verbal influence with Tracy Phillips

• Susie Tomenchok • Episode 91

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Ever wondered how much of your message is conveyed without saying a word? Unlock the secrets of non-verbal communication with Tracy Phillips, a video and visibility expert with over two decades of experience and an Emmy nomination for her documentary work. Tracy reveals that a whopping 93% of communication is non-verbal, emphasizing the immense power of body language and tone in professional settings. Learn how to authentically and confidently present yourself in meetings, negotiations, and everyday interactions to elevate your leadership presence.

Transform your virtual interactions by mastering your digital presence. Tracy shares expert tips on optimizing lighting, camera positioning, and maintaining eye contact to foster trust and connection through the screen. Discover the subtle yet impactful role of showing up visibly in virtual meetings, using small gestures, and active participation to stand out and build influence—especially in environments with senior leaders or teams filled with introverts and engineers.

In this episode, we talk about the following:
1. Importance of nonverbal communication in professional settings.
2. Techniques for improving virtual presence.
3. Self-evaluation and continuous improvement.

Connect with Tracy Phillips:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracy-phillips-538125b1/
http://testimagical.com

The Negotiator's Toolbox is now available!
Get $100 off when you use code TOOLBOX at www.negotiationlove.com

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Ready to continue your professional growth?
Here are a few resources for you:


Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leaders with Leverage podcast. I'm your host and negotiation expert, susie Tomichuk. It's time to be your own advocate and confidently navigate what you want out of your career, not simply the next role or additional compensation. I wanna show you that negotiation happens every day in plain sight, so you need to be ready to opt in and say yes with confidence. This happens by adopting a negotiator's mindset, and I'll show you how, together with other business leaders, you'll learn the essential skills and shifts in mindset you need to know. You will be empowered to naturally advocate for yourself and grow your professional skills, and while you're practicing along the way, you'll increase your confidence and gain respect, all while you're growing into that future leader you're poised to be, and when you face a high stakes situation, you're ready, no matter how high those stakes are. So let's do it. Let's lead with leverage.

Speaker 1:

Hi, friends, I'm so happy that you made the choice to be here today, because I have a guest that you're going to find phenomenal. She's a friend of mine she's actually my coach in terms of how I show up on camera and her name is Tracy Phillips. Welcome, tracy.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me. It's so funny because I've been on the back end of this but now I get to be on the actual show, so this is exciting for me.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'm super excited and it's so funny because I'm using my hands as I'm talking and I know that's one. The thing we're going to talk about is how we communicate beyond the words that we say, and this is so relevant to negotiation in our everyday professional lives, and so tell the audience a little bit about you, just so they have some context of how you come to this great wisdom.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I have 23 years of pro video experience. I started in documentaries I even have an Emmy nomination in documentaries and so I spent so many of those years, you know, behind the camera, helping other people present on camera, but also interviewing and really helping people feel comfortable and I feel like that is my sweet spot when I do coach executive, leaders, corporate leaders is really being able to help people show up in a way that feels good to them but also makes an impact. It's memorable and it feels authentic, and I feel like that word is thrown around way too much, but it is true. Genuine is the word I like to use better, but really showing up in a way that is genuine, so that you are perceived. So, when we talk about negotiation and leadership, how do you want to be perceived as a leader? And these are all the types of things how you talk, walk, show up. All of those things really help your perception and how you're being perceived.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so I want people to really think we're not talking about when you're in front of a bunch of people and you're presenting or you're recording something we're talking about in your everyday meetings, one-on-one, virtually, in meetings with colleagues, when you're trying to land a new deal with somebody and negotiation, but it's more, it's. It goes beyond your words, it goes. It goes to how you show up. So tell us a little bit about, give us some of the nuggets that you think that are really valuable for people to really consider.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think before we started recording, I was talking about a body language researcher named Albert Midrobrian and he talks about the 73855 rule and that is 7% of what you said. Your spoken word is memorable 38% tone and 55% is your body language. And I see a lot of people and I help with content as well, but the spoken, what you're speaking, is not nearly as impactful as what your body language or what your voice is actually saying. And we talked also we'll get into it later but about, like the body language, that you can't lie with your body language. You can work on it, but it doesn't lie.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so let's really think about that. 55% of what we're communicating to others has nothing to do with our words. It has everything to do with how we're positioned, how we're using our hands, what we're saying, all of those things, those gestures. So you're going to really go into some more detail about that.

Speaker 2:

And I'm going to get again. When we're talking about virtual presentations, all that which is my world where you're framed in your virtual presentation, I cannot tell you how many leaders I show up with and you know they're supposed to be doing global sales meetings and all of these types of things virtually. And they're here. They're not well lit. It happens every week, right, and people just don't really think about you know, how close you are to the camera also speaks volumes about your confidence. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And where you're looking, I have. People are like oh, I just thought that you knew I was looking at you. And they're looking over at the camera. They're like but you're right there, and I'm like no, that doesn't mean that, no, it's crazy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's awkward so these are the things.

Speaker 2:

I mean, you know, like anything it takes practice, right? So when we're talking about virtual meetings or even right now, like I'm looking a little to you but really I'm trying to connect with my little green dot, because that little green dot is me, is my audience, it's my audience, it's you, it's right and so so really finessing those things. You know, I've been in places where people like, oh my gosh, how do you keep your eye contact the whole time? And I really don't keep it the whole time. But I really make a concerted effort to make sure I'm looking at that green dot pretty often so that the people on the other end feel valued.

Speaker 1:

They feel heard, they feel seen, and that's so important for leaders to really, because that connection builds trust and trust is the foundation to any dealmaking as a leader, as a colleague, all of those things. So when we come back, we're going to dig into it and you have the behind the scenes with Tracy right here. So don't go away, because you will want to hear all she has to give us. We'll be right back. Hey, susie, here, thought I'd pop in.

Speaker 1:

I wanted to let you know I've been an executive coach for over a decade. I work with executives and they call me their silent partner because I help them increase their confidence when they're facing really difficult decisions. If you'd like to see if we're a good fit, head over to suzytomachukcom and fill out an application. I'd love to hear from you. All right, I'm super excited to jump in with Tracy Phillips today. You know, tracy, I'm actually in two days going to do a training on influence and building influence, and it's going to be a room full of engineers and introverts. And so one of the senior leaders said I want my people to understand, not to just show up, but to be seen.

Speaker 2:

Yes, oh, I love that. By the way, it almost gives me the chili bumbles when you say that, because it's really, it's important. Yeah, so, and and. And. Here's one of the myths about showing up on camera with I mean, we're all in zoom rooms all day long, or meetings, google meet, whatever you're using WebEx, and and it's.

Speaker 2:

It's so easy to just leave your camera off and have your name up there, but what happens is when you are not showing up in that way, you're not memorable and we need you to be not just showing up but to be memorable. And the myth is that in order to be memorable, you have to be this animated bunny rabbit and always chiming in with your opinions, and that's not true. Yeah, so, so what I, what I like to work with people on, is when we talk about just showing up as a turning your camera on. I mean, I also do. I do visibility trainings and and the big joke I start with my housekeeping is, by the way, in case you didn't get the memo, this is a visibility training turned your darn camera on and I get lots of laughter. But we walk around the room and we help them show up, but when you're showing up physically right, people can see you. You're more memorable. That alone is more memorable.

Speaker 2:

And so when we're talking about being in a room of other leaders, or if you are, you know downline and in with executives and you're nodding, just nodding, I'm listening. That makes you more memorable. So that next motion or that next project, they'll say you know what? Tracy's always on the calls, she always looks engaged, looks engaged. It doesn't mean I have to constantly be, you know the person talking, but I look interested, so I'm nodding, I'm listening. Little hand signals of little claps or snaps or something to say I support what that person's saying. Really, really important. It's huge.

Speaker 1:

It's huge and also it supports that person that's talking. Don't assume that this is a senior leader. They just they have their agenda, they have confidence that they need to build up to and so, seeing that engagement, I think the equivalent of that virtual putting your camera on is not going to a meeting with your laptop and just sitting there and not being there. Be in the meeting Even if you don't have an active role. Like you said, use those gestures and be seen in that moment. That is memorable as well.

Speaker 2:

Yes, very much so. And again, it makes the speaker feel good because you and I both do. I mean, I do virtual trainings all the time and I tell people, hey, I thrive on your live connection. Yeah, laugh at my jokes, you know, like tell them what you need from them. And so if you, whether you're the speaker or the participants, you both have roles in this virtual realm that are really, really important, including we talked about ahead of time, like ask questions. And if you, if you don't have a question, what about raising someone else up on your team, so making a comment on the back of their question, or you know, that's ways of also showing your own kind of leadership is is just supporting your other team members and and saying, yes, you know what? Sherry said this and I couldn't, I couldn't, agree more with that.

Speaker 1:

Here's why and that shows so much like people notice those things, not just the person that is benefiting from that support that you've given, but it Like people notice those things, not just the person that is benefiting from that support that you've given, but other people notice and it's like that's really great. Even if they don't make a conscious note, they still notice that it's so important. And even when people we talked about connection, as an extrovert I need people I know introverts will say I'm just more comfortable not having non-verbals. But listen, I need the verbals. I mean, I need the non-verbals to understand your energy. So it may feel uncomfortable to you, it doesn't feel uncomfortable to me and it's always really interesting to me when people aren't engaged and they're not even looking at me, right.

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, when we talk about the virtual world, I mean think about you. Know you think you're just slyly looking at your phone. Suddenly your head is down into the side. I know you're looking at your phone. I will call on you, by the way, if I see this happening in one of my rooms, just simply because I mean that's the whole thing is. Again, as a speaker, you want as much engagement and you don't have that live audience where you are the only thing they can look at. They are suddenly in a room of a lot of distractions and so yeah, so I just think you know all the little things like eating, looking at your phone, looking off, having a separate conversation I've, you know, been on things where people are answering their phone and they forget to mute themselves and I'm like it's so rude. But also all of a sudden they put themselves in this, like oh, that's the rude person on the right, like so. So suddenly you're also demeaning your position by simply just not being a polite participant.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're also kind of saying this is not important to me, I will take anything else over this meeting and that's such a so it's all about the frame. It's about looking at the camera, making sure that and and even thinking about how are you showing up? What is the frame in the room? How are people seeing you? Are you sitting at the table? Are you sitting in the corner? What are the? What are the dynamics? I love talking about the framing.

Speaker 2:

I love talking about cause. You talk about framing and negotiations, which is a little different than this. But this is your physical framing, and so video is a close-up medium, and what I mean by that is the closer to the camera you are, the more memorable you are. So if I am far away from my camera and kind of off and down down, I seem small. But if I'm close up, it's perceived as confidence. And so these are tiny little things that you can do, because a lot of people come to me I'm not confident on camera. Well, let's just fix your framing, wow, and that alone will help you be perceived as confidence. And from there, like I said, it's a process. But when we talk about framing, I'm talking about physically where you are in this little frame, this virtual frame, and so you do want to fill the space, and what I say is you really don't want more than an internet inch over your head. You can have a little bit more space than that.

Speaker 2:

In the old world of video, when we talk about where you're supposed to be, there was like the rule of thirds, that you can be in any thirds, but when we're talking about meetings like this, you want to be in the center. You want to be filling the space. And then, when you talked about a little bit earlier is your eye line should be directly, so my eye is exactly lined up with my camera, so I'm not looking up at my camera and I'm not looking down at my camera. So these are also positional right Things that can either make you look like you've got an ego or again you're meek, and so we want you lined up with your camera and filling that frame.

Speaker 2:

And that alone is just going to. If you go around the room and say whose, whose, whose little square pops at me, I get comments all the time simply from my background and things, because but I'm always filling the frame and although I'm going to throw it in there, just because I know, susie, we've talked about it what are you wearing? Does that pop Right? Is it pop against your background or are you kind of like falling into your background? So, again, these are just tiny little things that have nothing to do with what's coming out of your mouth that can help you appear more confident.

Speaker 1:

What is your pop of color is one of the things that I talk about in my training, and it is it's like think about what makes you different. How can you stand out? Don't try to look like everyone else, but just even taking an audit of that. I love that idea of looking at other people and noticing how they're framed, but also look at yourself. What do you need to adjust? What do you need to do?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I get. I mean, I get in social media. I'll get emails and people will take screen grabs because you won't be able to unsee it. That's the one thing about working with me. You're like, it's like a tiny Tracy on your shoulder because people say like, oh my gosh, I was in this webinar and the person giving the webinar. Look at their framing, look at how like they're not well lit. They're not, and I was like, and they're like can you help them? I'm like well, I can help them, but I'm not going. Like you know, is that person in a position of authority or not? Yeah, so important, all right.

Speaker 1:

I want to make sure we get to some gestures. Talk to us about the nonverbals and some of the research around. What does that communicate?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I'm going to start with the most obvious one, which I'm going to go there Smile, smile and nod, right. So if you are not the speaker and you are, you know, part of the group smile and nod to show that you're paying attention. These are little things that make a huge difference. And again, as speakers, susie and I will tell you like it's really nice to look around a room and see people nodding, smiling. Even taking notes would be great, right, but those are little nonverbals. Even taking notes would be great, right, but those are little nonverbals.

Speaker 2:

Using your hands I am an effusive speaker, I like to use my hands quite a bit. You don't want to go what I call Grover style, where it's all over the place and you're, you know, flopping your arms back and forth, but when you use your body, again there's with hands alone. It's implied that you have greater intelligence. People who use their head they've done studies on this. And then hand gestures make people listen to you. And in the video world, again, we're in this like tiny little box. It's okay to cross that frame, it's okay to use them. If you're saying the number three, put a three up. If you're saying greater, to're saying greater. Make a sign like this, it helps people engage. And again, these are tiny little things that you can just start to. I mean, you can see, I do like tiny little things that you can do to enhance how you're perceived in the virtual world Other non-verbals I mean we were talking about, so a non-verbal but something I like to work on is what I call the lilt and the tilt, and that is how your voice goes up and down.

Speaker 2:

So this again isn't through and I'll say here's how I would say this. Susie has experienced this. Here's how I would say it, and I will say it with some lilt and tilt, not ending on a question up. If it's something that you're trying to make a statement about, you want to calm down. So these are again things that can be worked on quite easily once you're attuned to it. Yeah, but those I would say those are my favorites.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's so good and I hate to say this. People will cringe. Record yourself and watch yourself and see if you are an observer of yourself. A few times you will benefit in spades because you can't unsee what you've seen and think about some of the ways that you're we're showing up in your virtual worlds to make sure that you're seen.

Speaker 2:

So interesting and I'm not going to cringe. I say record yourself because, and maybe even show it to somebody ask someone close to you, like you know what, like how do I come off? It's someone you trust who's going to tell you the truth too. But yeah, so so you know we are our own worst critics. But record yourself and say okay, or look at a recording of yourself, where you were in the room. What were you doing? Were you standing out? Were you like you know, was it easy to kind of pick you out of someone?

Speaker 1:

paying attention or you know, were you on your phone doing things? Yeah, and you don't have to do the recording. You can even just ask people before a meeting. Hey, I'm really working on my presence. Can you watch me and give me some feedback? If you ask afterwards, they haven't collected the data that they need to give to you, so tell them before.

Speaker 1:

This is an important aspect of building your influence, building trust, building connection and being seen, so taking these steps. So when we come back with Tracy, we're going to get you, I'm going to put you on the spot. Give us three tips that the audience can use, starting right now, to change the way that they're being seen. Okay, hi, suzy, here you know, one of the things that I love is I facilitate team conversations, whether it's talking about high stakes, how to advocate for one another. So if you're a leader and you want to bring your team together, you want to level them up, help them really bond together and increase their confidence as a whole, contact me, go to suzytomachukcom, tell me a little bit about your team and I'll be in touch. All right, so now we're going to get some. We're going to get three tips from Tracy, and I'm excited because I'm going to really think about how I'm going to put these tips into practice. So what's your first?

Speaker 2:

tip Well, and I want, I'm going to do this in like, these are the three most important things I want you to be thinking about. So if you got nothing else out of these to be thinking about, so if you got nothing else out of these, let's do.

Speaker 1:

tip number one is work on your framing work on where you are in your virtual space, and I think that's so. So when I think about that, I've I've gotten really good at the frame and I can't unsee it. I'm like you. I just when I see people out of their frame, it just really bothers me. So I'm I'm really good at putting myself in the frame. But what you've taught me is it does make a difference to look at that green dot, and if I don't do that, I feel like I can tell that the connection isn't there with the other person, and especially when I'm working with people one-on-one, that's so important. So I really focus on that green dot and think about it as that's them feeling like I'm listening to them. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm listening to them. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to really focus on that green dot in my frame.

Speaker 2:

I think you're great You're doing great at it. And then the tip number two I would say is like let's pick one nonverbal thing that you can do, and if you're having trouble picking one of those, I would start with. It's a pretty easy entry point, which is being present by smiling and nodding, so listening to the other speakers, regardless of who's speaking, and really engaging just trying that one little nonverbal thing, I think will help a lot in how you're being perceived.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, as a speaker I've had to tell myself, just because I don't think they're listening doesn't mean they're not listening. So this is such an important one. And I think what I forget sometimes, when I'm not the active person speaking, is that I'm thinking and so my face gets into. I mean, you know, I'll just I'm listening, I'm actively listening to Susie, and so it's it's a natural thing to just nod and and smile a little bit.

Speaker 2:

My third, my third tip is definitely going to be about you know we're talking about leverage. Right Is speak up, say something. So if you are in a meeting, that is the best way to be heard and Zine is so ask a question. If you don't have a question, then think about something someone said and add a comment to that, because that will again. It just helps you become memorable and that's what we want. We want for you to be memorable in this virtual space.

Speaker 1:

Totally. And I have a friend who says she's always the first one to ask the first question in a big you know kind of presentation. And I thought, oh, that's so good to, even if it's uncomfortable for you. What can you do to support somebody else or say something? These are great. So the frame one nonverbal and then ask one question or comment all the time. Oh, these were great, great tips. Let us know which one you use and when we come back we'll just tie this all up and get you something to think about that we want you to take away. We'll be right back.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I got in. Hey everybody, I'm James. I'm Susie's co-host on her other podcast, quick Take. If you're enjoying this podcast, you're going to love our podcast Quick Take even better, mostly because, well, I'm there, which is infinitely more entertaining. But hey, you'll love it if you join us. Please subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts. Please subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1:

Oh, this has been so good, Tracy. I'm so grateful for you. What do you want the people to really think about as we close this out?

Speaker 2:

Well, I don't want to be a Nike commercial here, but I want you to do it. But I also want you to take your time with this right, we've gone over a lot of different things, so pick one, pick two and really start to integrate it, because it is so important. When we're talking about leadership and leverage, you need to really step into that role and these verbal, nonverbal how you're showing up, how you're being perceived, is really, really important. So take your time with this, but do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, these things can create impact and make you seen. Oh so good. If you were listening and you're like, oh, I wish I could have seen them. This is on my YouTube channel so you can watch this again. If you know somebody that needs to see this, send it to them. You know they'll never know that. We told you to do that till they got to the end. If you wanna know more about me, go to negotiationandlovecom Tracy. How can people connect with?

Speaker 2:

you. I think my favorite way is on LinkedIn. I'm a LinkedIn lady, so again, working with executive and corporate leaders, with coaching, virtual presence, speaking presence that's my wheelhouse, that's your jam, that's my jam, that's your jam, as you say yes.

Speaker 1:

Oh, this is so good and, like Tracy had said, just do it. Do something to change the way you're showing up so you can be seen so good. Tracy, thank you so much for being here giving us your wisdom and, as you know, I want to make sure that you know, tracy, you know that negotiation is more than a skill, it's a mindset. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of Leaders with Leverage. I am so honored that you chose to spend your time with me.

Speaker 1:

If you're ready to accelerate your professional growth and invest in defining the career you want, I have more resources for you. Professional growth and invest in defining the career you want I have more resources for you. You can join my newsletter, where your inbox will love a Monday Minute it's an easy read where I share stories of how others are adopting a negotiator's mindset so that you can use these tips so that you can find success every week. And if you want to read my book, the Art of Everyday Negotiation Without Manipulation, I have a special offer just for my listeners. These links can be found in the show notes and if you want to work with me, there's more information there as well. I'd love for you to be a part of this movement, to adopt a negotiator's mindset, because those who do create opportunities for themselves and they believe the investment is completely worth it. Head to the links in the show notes and just remember that I appreciate you.

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Susie Tomenchok

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