Era of the Creative Episode 8 Being ‘THE Photographer’ with Joey P

There is a major difference between a photographer who is passionate about his work as an art form and a picture-taker who is in it for the money, beautiful women, or status. Joining us today to discuss his stance on the world of photography is a man who epitomizes professionalism, passion, and versatility, Joey P. Tuning in, you’ll hear all about how Joey dipped his toes into photography, what his favorite camera and lens is, why he refuses to be put in a box, and why copycats are flattering. We also discuss his hatred of the vague term content creator before Joey tells us how to separate the photographers from the picture-takers. Collaborations have to be mutually beneficial and in this episode, Joey outlines how he handles collabs, how he reaches out to potential clients, why he prefers to work with brands, the growing definition of the word model, and the difficulties of with working with models who do not take direction. In this industry, nothing stays the same for long and Joey is adamant that he will continuously evolve to become bigger and better for the rest of his life. He shares the importance of professionalism and etiquette, creating an experience out of shoots, and why capturing emotion in photos is magic. Finally, we discuss the impact of using Only Fans as payment for images. So to hear all this and much more, tune in now!

Key Points From This Episode:

• Joey P’s favorite camera and lens. 
• How Joey got into photography. 
• Why Joey hates the word content creator and why he doesn’t want to be put into a box. 
• Why we’re flattered by photographers copying us and why we get excited about good work. 
• How to know when a photographer is in it for the money. 
• What Ron Wayne has taught us. 
• The difference between photographers and picture-takers.
• The importance of benefiting from a collab as a photographer and how Joey handles collabs.
• How Joey reaches out to people to turn them into clients. 
• Why photography is ever-changing and photographers have to continue to master their craft. 
• Why photographers should work with brands (big and small) instead of models.
• Why the ability to capture emotion in a photo is a massive win. 
• The difficulties of working with models who don’t listen and trust their photographer. 
• The importance of making your shoots an experience. 
• Why photographers need to check on their models and ensure that they feel comfortable.
• Joey discusses photography etiquette. 
• The importance of keeping your relationship with your models professional. 
• Why Joey always aims to get bigger and better. 
• Why a model who shows emotion is more valuable than a popular model who can’t. 
• The evolution of the word “model”.
• What using Only Fans as a form of payment is doing for photographers and their reputations.

Transcript

EPISODE 08

[EPISODE]

[00:00:01] JPE: Move so you can see my pretty face.

[00:00:03] JP: Yeah. I don't want to be like – Yeah, exactly.

[00:00:08] JPE: All right, cool. If you want to hear. Let me pour you a drink, brother. IKEA rug.

[00:00:13] JP: It’s the IKEA, man. I feel like that's the best thing in the world.

[00:00:16] JPE: Definitely. Let me know if that’s too little.

[00:00:18] JP: No. That's good. That's perfect.

[00:00:20] JPE: I don’t want to get trash on the podcast.

[00:00:22] JP: We can always – 

[00:00:23] JPE: Could you imagine? I’m dismal. I'm going to shoot landscape.

[00:00:28] JP: A matter of fact. 

[00:00:29] JPE: I’m shooting landscape from now on –

[00:00:31] JP: I’ll shoot photography, bro. I happen to –

[00:00:32] JPE: The moon. The nebulas.

[00:00:34] JP: We’re going to Mars, bro. We’re going to Mars.

[00:00:37] JPE: I want to tell you that you are – officially, you're episode number 10 of the podcast. So you’re my first 10.

[00:00:44] JP: We hit double-digit.

[00:00:45] JPE: We hit double digits today. It's a huge deal. 

[00:00:48] JP: It’s a big deal.

[00:00:49] JPE: I think the majority of podcasts don't go past five. 

[00:00:51] JP: Really? 

[00:00:52] JPE: I think it 70% of them don't go past five. 

[00:00:55] JP: Really. 

[00:00:55] JPE: Yeah.

[00:00:56] JP: People give up?

[00:00:56] JPE: Yeah, after five. Then the next number is 20. Then the other 40% don't give up after 20, but then once you hit 20 it’s like, then you're official. Now you're going on for life, as long as you don't die.

[00:01:08] JP: Really? Because then it becomes rhythm. 

[00:01:09] JPE: Yeah. It's all consistency at that point. 

[00:01:11] JP: Dude, that’s awesome.

[00:01:13] JPE: Yes. So sir. Mr. Joey. 

[00:01:16] JP: Sir Joey P.

[00:01:17] JPE: Sir Joey P. I want to make this all about you. You're one of the photographers that when I first started shooting, you were there from the beginning, which is really cool. So you've seen a lot of progression, not just in me, but the industry in general. I think you're one of the most vocal photographers that I know, which is a great thing. I'm sure you get hate for that and you get love for it. But what I want to hear about you. I've started off every episode asking, what camera do you use? What’s your Go 2 camera and your Go 2 lens?

[00:01:42] JP: I love answering these questions. So currently right now, I actually just transitioned from the A7r3 to the A1. 

[00:01:51] JPE: Okay. Wow.

[00:01:52] JP: I literally did the first photo shoot with it yesterday. My Go 2 lens, I'm probably going, man, I just can't get rid of that GM 247. Right now, for what I shoot. I do everything with it, but I will tell you right now that I just saw the Sigma 1.2 85 and I'm in it.

[00:02:10] JPE: The 1.2? 

[00:02:12] JP: It’s a game changer.

[00:02:13] JPE: Do you ever need to go that level, like shoot 1.2? 

[00:02:15] JP: No. I don’t why. I just think it's going to see that.

[00:02:17] JPE: If it hits 1.2, I’m going to go to 1.2 –

[00:02:20] JP: [Inaudible 00:02:20] but, yeah. I think it's a 1.2. It might be 1.4, but I think it’s a 1.2. Yeah. That was super clean. Is that new 85. I've never been a zoom lens guy. Never been anybody that shoots higher than 70, but for some reason I just really liked that 85. I thought it was super clean. 

[00:02:39] JPE: They’re very cool.

[00:02:40] JP: Awesome. That's my new Go 2, the A1. I'm excited to see what it can do. 

[00:02:44] JPE: Yeah. It’s a bad boy.

[00:02:45] JP: Yeah. I'm still learning on it. I haven't even learned everything on that A7r3. 

[00:02:49] JPE: Really? How long have you shot with that one before?

[00:02:51] JP: Since I started. That was my first camera. The first camera I've ever owned.

[00:02:55] JPE: What made you buy that camera? When did you get into photography?

[00:02:59] JP: That’s crazy. What made me get into photography? I think I'm a person that I do a lot of different things. I get really excited about trying. I'm always on the hunt for that thing that's going to make me feel like I can do it, like, “Oh, this is what I was made for.” Right? Whether it's scuba diving, Skydiving, joining the military. I was just like, what else can I do? It became one of those things where, where do we live man? South Florida, beautiful women, beautiful cars, beautiful property, I was like, look at this. This is, we're walking on a billboard like we're a walking billboard every single day. I was like, “I want to be the guy who sells it. I want to create the dream. I want to paint the dream for people.”

[00:03:40] JPE: Was there a turning point? Like a specific moment that you said, “I'm going to pick up this camera now?” Or like that, you know –

[00:03:45] JP: You know what. I think at the time I was just surrounded by just pure like, I don't want to name drop, but like, dude, when you got Joey Wright, Chris Headshots, Mike Ohrangu Tang. That are just people that you see on a regular basis. You're just like, “Okay, cool.” So if you do it good enough, you can make it enough to live, right? I'm not saying that they're fucking balling out of control, but there are foods on the table. They got a roof over their head. I was like, “Cool.” I think they were so good at selling the lifestyle, which is what I was excited about, right? 

They were so good at doing it that they never once said to me like, “Yo, Joey never once looked at me.” He was like, “Hey, you should become a photographer.” Or, “Hey, man.” Well, in fact, they said the opposite. It was the polar opposite. It was, “Hey, dude. Everyone is a photographer down here.” I was like, “Yeah, but.” I think what really drove it home was the amount of people that I knew. The amount of girls and the amount of people that own nice cars, and people that – and I'm a people person. I'm always around people. I realized I was the guy in the group that was like, I would never get trashed. I was never the drunk guy. I was the guy that always took care of people. Oh, you need DD? I got you. Oh, you need [inaudible 00:04:56]. I got you. Yeah, let me compass timeout real quick or we’ll have someone else. Like, I was the fun guy. I was like, “Why am I not capturing this while we're doing it?” 

Then one day a girl was like, “You should take pictures of me on the beach.” Shout out KG Fit. She’ll be like, “I never watched this episode.” But she's cute man. She's a good friend of mine. At the time, she was doing really hardcore workouts. She's like, “I'm fit.” She has amazing body like, absolutely beautiful woman, super amazing body. She was like, “I just want to get some good shots of like, my abs.” I was like, “Cool. Let's do a beach shoot. Let’s try it. Whatever.” It clicked the first time. I showed, and we're showing some of my friends, MP, Chris, Danny, Joey all the homies. They were like, “Dude, you’ve got something. We don't know what it is, but there's something there.” 

[00:05:41] JPE: Right.

[00:05:42] JP: I was like, I took that real big. I was like, “This is real me.” Like – Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like –

[00:05:48] JPE: If they said, I got it –

[00:05:49] JP: Dude, literally. Next day, nine grand. 

[00:05:51] JPE: Wow.

[00:05:51] JP: Next day. Not even joking with you. I think I had an A6000 which was the first – I don't consider that a camera. That's the first camera I've literally ever purchased in my entire life, but I don't think, that's a second all around. You grab it. You put it in your car, whenever you're out. You take a picture. 

[00:06:09] JPE: Right. Anyone can use it.

[00:06:11] JP: Yeah. That's when I did Hershey with. The second I got that feedback, I took my Best Buy card and just dropped nine G’s. 

[00:06:19] JPE: Wow. 

[00:06:19] JP: Yeah. 

[00:06:20] JPE: Dedication.

[00:06:20] JP: I haven’t looked back ever since.

[00:06:22] JPE: Do you consider yourself a portrait photographer? Or you do a lot of different things?

[00:06:25] JP: I hate the word content creator.

[00:06:29] JPE: Why? Tell me. 

[00:06:30] JP: Oh, I fucking hate this word.

[00:06:31] JPE: You hate the name of my podcast?

[00:06:34] JP: I hate content creator. Let me tell you why I hate content creator, it’s I am a content creator, just like you are, you create content. That's what you do, right, and the definition. So I try not to classify myself as that, but I'm also not a portrait photographer. I'm also not a headshot photographer. I'm not a landscape photographer. I don't know. I think that's one of the biggest parts about me is, I don't want to be classified. I don't want to be put in a box. I don’t. The second I'm in a box, this is like a trait of me. You'll know this after knowing me for a couple of years. The second you can classify me is the second I quit. 

[00:07:10] JPE: Right.

[00:07:10] JP: I don't want to be the best headshot photographer. I don't want to be the best swimsuit photographer, or fashion or editorial photo – I want to be the photographer. I want to be the guy who has a little bit of everything. Sure, I want to be better at some things than others. I mean, right now. I can take you out to the Glades, dude. We can do Astrophotography and I've been killing for the past month.

[00:07:31] JPE: Shoot the pores of the moon. The rings of Saturn.

[00:07:34] JP: I learned some cool shit out there. My buddies and I are out there painting lights. It's just gnarly, but photography is, there's so many aspects inside of it, that it just really intrigued me. The fact that you can just take it with you and do it anywhere is absolutely phenomenal.

[00:07:49] JPE: Right. Extremely versatile. I think the only thing that changes is your vision of what you see, because you and I can see the same subject, same location, same time of day and shoot two completely different photos because it's just how it is. You and I are different people.

[00:08:02] JP: Does it, but I'm going to ask you this, this is fun. Does it bother you when you see people copying your style? Like not necessarily your style, but like, because people are always going to copy, that's flattering to me. I find it flattering. When I see photographers reach out to the same, if I just shot five murals and posted them on Instagram and I see a photographer reach out to those five girls. I'm excited. 

[00:08:22] JPE: Right, because you know, what you found.

[00:08:25] JP: You know, it’s a yes. You know, it's not ironic that he just came upon those same exact five girls. So that for me is like, cool. I'm stoked that that guy saw him go, I can do it better. Like, I want that. I want you to do that. But for you, is it something, because you're in this industry. Dude you do this so often now. Is it something that you look at and you're like, well, how do you feel when you see people that you just know, yeah, they're not, right? Let's be honest. There's a lot of photographers that I see that tried to do what a lot of other people are doing that are missing it, big time.

[00:08:58] JPE: I would be flattered, too. I don't see that very often, but when I do see like, “Oh, well, I'm glad that he took inspiration.” Because I take inspiration from you and other people all the time. 

[00:09:05] JP: Yeah. 

[00:09:05] JPE: I think the only thing that would disappoint me would be they did it not as good. I would want them, if they’re going to copy me, be better than me. 

[00:09:11] JP: Yeah.

[00:09:12] JPE: Make something where I got to stop my car, sit down, put it in park and be like, “Wow, how did he do that?” Right? Because I get excited when I see good work. Regardless of whether it was inspired by me or somebody else. When I see good work it’s – Man, I think I've called you. That was an amazing shot like, that’s – and I love to see it. So when I see somebody shooting with a model that I shoot with, or that I know personally and their work just isn't up to par. Like they slack on the editing or they slacked on maybe the posing or whatever the case may be. I'm like, I know her potential and I know how well she works. So it's like you let her down and you let me down. It’s like, come on. Like, make it happen.

[00:09:45] JP: When you see that, when you go in on Instagram or Tiktok or something like that. Do you ever – I find myself doing this and this may be bad, but I look at that and I'll see by how good I feel that their quality of work is, I immediately classify them. 

[00:10:02] JPE: Really? 

[00:10:02] JP: Yeah. I don't know if you do this, but I do this. It's not to be mean, right? It's more so I know where they are, so I can maneuver around it, but there's certain photographers that I'll look at, and I'll be like, “Oh, he's just in it for the money.” 

[00:10:16] JPE: Can you tell? 

[00:10:17] JP: Or I just feel you can. I feel like you can or he's in it for the fame or the girls, or he's in it because he loves art, right? He's in it, because he enjoys the process. I feel like I can – come on, you can tell. When you see somebody doing a photo almost completely washed out, skin so smooth, it's ridiculous, sucked in tight photos. They're like, power liquefying everything, right? You know what that is. There's no – yeah. You know what that is, right? Then you also, you can tell a lot about a photographer by how they edit, if they edit their own photo. I feel like you can, right?

[00:10:52] JPE: Yeah. What do you look for when you see it like, if I were to upload a photo, what would you see? What are the details that you would pick out? What would you get from those from your feedback? 

[00:10:58] JP: From your photos?

[00:10:59] JPE: Yeah. Let's use me as an example. 

[00:11:00] JP: Dude, when I look at your photos now like, I think we were just talking about it before we started recording. The attention to detail that you show now, versus when you first started and mind you like, I'm nobody – Let me just hold on, stop, stop, stop, but what I'm saying is like, I'm nobody in the sense of like, don't hold me up there with anybody amazing, right, with like the big guys of our league. I'm saying this in simply, this simplest way of just saying like, in my two and a half, three years of experience. When I look at your images, the amount of detail that you're locking in now the fact that you stopped shooting at two, four, and you started shooting at three five.

[00:11:38] JPE: I’m getting there. I’m getting there.

[00:11:41] JP: You understand when to shoot that depth. You understand when, when you're editing to pull those shadows. What aesthetic you're going for when you're pulling off shadows, right? You're leaving it dark and mysterious. Okay, we’re going to leave it dark, mysterious, cool. Don't fool to detail. But what you're also not doing is completely blushing out someone's body to where you're selling a fake image. There's a line there that if you're a model or a client, and you'd want your skin perfect, awesome. I'm here for it. Let's make it happen. When you want to tweak things. “Hey, look, I'm usually not this heavy. I'm usually a little bit tighter. I've had some issues.” “Cool. I'll help you out. I got you.” But when you're like, “Hey, I'm a C, but I want a triple D. Sorry, that's not for me. I'm not your photographer.

[00:12:27] JPE: Right. 

[00:12:28] JP: Right? There's some photographers out there that, yeah, happily will do that. They'll make you look ridiculous. Those people, I won’t drop names [inaudible 00:12:37] but I won’t drop names. Those people are the guys that I'm like I can see you're in it for the money. I can see you're in it for pleasing the model, not necessarily, because you have a vision that you want to create, right? Those are the people that I'm like, “Cool, you're still killing it.” – I'm not knocking you. I'm not saying stop. It doesn't bother me, not whatsoever. You're not even on my – you're on my radar as a human being, but realistically, you're not even in the same weight class as me, because we're not shooting the same thing.

[00:13:04] JPE: Right.

[00:13:04] JP: When I see a weight class, the weight class that I'm in and I'm at the bottom of it is the same weight class as like, you. It's the same weight class as Joey Wright. It’s the same way class as Ronald Wayne, bro. Shout out to Ron. When you guys did that podcast. I'm so stoked to watch that.

[00:13:20] JPE: Incredible. Yeah.

[00:13:20] JP: [inaudible 00:13:19] like tomorrow. But I would be interested to hear it because he's also a guy that literally came and built his empire by himself. With everybody, there's a certain amount of fake it to make it, and I learned that. But he's a guy that literally since I shook his hand at swim week, two years ago, for the first time. We shot the shit that whole night like, that's always the guy. I don't even talk to him that much, right, I don't. I don't at all. But he's a guy that no question. I know right now, if I was like, “Yo, I would love to sit down and pick your brain, I'll pay your hourly, whatever it is.” I will be happy to do that like I would be happy to learn from a guy like that.

[00:13:58] JPE: I’d give it to you for free. I think something that Ronald taught me because he told me. He's the reason why I picked up my camera for the first time. Something that he told me from the very, very beginning –

[00:14:05] JP: What was it? What was it that made you pick up the camera? 

[00:14:08] JPE: I used to work with a supplement company a few years ago. At the time we have a bunch of ambassadors and a bunch of athletes and models. I was paying photographers to come in shoot content, shoot photo, shoot videos. It's 500 over here, a 1000 over here, 300 over here, and we couldn't afford it. So I said, “You know what, I could shoot photos and videos that's easy. I could do it. I watch a couple of YouTube videos and that's it.” So I went and offer up and I bought a T3i, a Canon T3i. 

[00:14:32] JP: The Rebel T3i.

[00:14:33] JPE: The Rebel T3i was my first camera.

[00:14:35] JP: Black camera, red writing.

[00:14:36] JPE: Yeah. It's funny, because the girl who sold me the camera, I'm so proud of her to the day. I’ll tap her on the pod. She's an amazing photographer –

[00:14:43] JP: Okay. You didn’t tell you were friends. She sold you the T3i –

[00:14:46] JPE: She was like, I remember like, “Oh, this is a good camera to start off.” She goes, “It’s perfect to start off. I’m like, “All right, perfect.”

[00:14:51] JP: Selling dreams.

[00:14:52] JPE: Selling dreams.

[00:14:53] JP: She’s selling dreams, dude.

[00:14:54] JPE: Shout out [inaudible 00:14:54]. So I bought the camera and I don't know what I'm doing. Have you ever heard the saying that a good model can make a bad photographer look good.

[00:15:03] JP: 100%.

[00:15:04] JPE: I'm shooting with girls who know how to pose, who know how to move. So I'm a guy with a T3i, who's never shot anything in his life on full auto. I'm just spraying photo.

[00:15:14] JP: Stop. Spraying a brand?

[00:15:16] JPE: Yeah, just spraying.

[00:15:16] JP: Call of duty in it. No way.

[00:15:18] JPE: We’ve been looking at the model.

[00:15:19] JP: I love that for you. 

[00:15:20] JPE: Thank you. 

[00:15:22] JP: What lens are on that?

[00:15:24] JPE: A 50 millimeter. 

[00:15:25] JP: Okay, cool. 50-50 –

[00:15:26] JPE: Yeah. 50-50. So that's what I started off, but I started doing video before photos, but it was mostly video. I remember I'm hitting up photographers who were local here, man. This is a few, it must have been like 2013, 2014. Hey, do you mind if I shadow you a shoot? No response. Hey, do you mind if I go with –

[00:15:42] JP: Wait. You’re hitting up photographers?

[00:15:43] JPE: I'm hitting up photographers. Like, asking if I could travel them. 

[00:15:45] JP: Gotcha. 

[00:15:47] JPE: No hue. No hue. Left me on red. This is back in the early days of Instagram, and there weren't so many photographers, but the ones that were out there were huge, right? They're already established. The only one who responded back to me was Ron. Ron, he goes, “Yeah, bro. I have a shoot in a couple of days. Come through.” We were you're shooting Angela Sagar, I think it was. It’s like a huge model at the time. A huge name. So here I come with my little T3i. I remember I bought a handheld stabilizer. It wasn't even electronics. Yeah, little gimbal was on here trying to balance. 

[00:16:16] JP: Wait. It wasn’t electronic?

[00:16:17] JPE: No. I'm here trying to balance it out. I'm behind like, wait because we’re doing – He start off in fitness. That's what I start off, and I was well. All I did was fitness videos. 

[00:16:26] JP: You knew already what you're connecting with. 

[00:16:28] JPE: I knew what I had to do for the business that I was in. Not that I had a passion for it, but that's what I had to do. In my head, I'm like, I'm going to do fitness content. So Ron's doing fitness content, too. So he’s here, and then I'm right him, trying to get the same shot. He's literally like holding my hand and showing me how to shoot. Ever since then we became super, super cool. He's where he is right now. He's a great creative. I know you hate that word, but he's just a great person. Something that he taught me was that all this information is free. All this information is already on YouTube. All this information is already public. There's no holding back anything because it's already there. You're going to figure it out one way or the other. 

[00:17:02] JP: 100%. So why not be the better guy?

[00:17:04] JPE: Still want to be the better guy and do it.

[00:17:05] JP: I think in two things, one clarify real quick. I hate the word content creator. Let me tell you why here, real quick.

[00:17:11] JPE: Yeah. Tell me.

[00:17:11] JP: I hate it, because go Instagram, everybody puts content creator and everything. Oh, you’re a twitch gamer. You're a content creator. There's no, it's so generalized, that it becomes like, “Okay, what this?” It’s like if I asked you what you're doing, and I only had a minute to talk to you, when you told me you were a content creator. My second question would be okay, what content? Right? So then at that point, that's why I don't like content creators. It's very vague. It's like, “What are you?” “I'm a human.” “NO, like, what are you ?” You know what I’m saying? That’s why I hate content creator. 

Two, the idea of you been able to follow Ronald Wayne is like, that's essentially what I did with Senior Pappy Joey Wright. I met him, I was like, “Oh, he’s a cool, dude.” Like I wasn't on [inaudible 00:17:53] in the sense of look who’s hanging around all the time. I think I've only ever actually to this day, hung out with him. We went to Miami a couple times. We did a couple of little things together. Lauderdale a couple of times, but like, I don't hang out with him, because we know, who we hang out with. I hang out with him, because the way he carries himself, his professionalism, that what he can teach me without even knowing he's teaching me. There's very few people like me, who can pick up things without them stepping aside. 

Okay, did you see what I just did? Like I know what you just did, bro. Keep doing your game. I'm picking it up, trust me. Those are the people, the Joey’s, the Ron’s, those are the people that before us. We were like, all right, he's killing it. He's crushing it. He's humble about it. He's willing to say like, “Hey, man. Just look. Come over here and look.” Now copying is one thing. Learning the major information and data download from people like that and being able to interpret it through your own eyes, is what I think a lot of people lack.

[00:18:50] JPE: 100%.

[00:18:52] JP: There’s a lot of people who try to copy exactly what Ronald Wayne does. Exactly what Joey Wright does, exactly what Mike Ohrangu Tang does. I don't want to copy. I want to learn how you're talking to models. I want to learn how you're talking to clients. I want to learn how you're talking to other photographers, I want to learn how you're carrying yourself on an everyday level to make you get and attract those clients. I want to tweak that, and I want to make it my own. That's the thing that there's not a lot of us will. There's a lot of photographers. 

[00:19:19] JPE: So many.

[00:19:20] JP: There's a lot of picture-takers. There's a huge difference there. Photographers, I feel had the entire package. Those are people that can sell something. They can deliver something. They’re professional. They have a visual eye in art, they’re an artist. Picture-takers are those guys that go, “Yeah, cool. Take 20 pictures here, but 10 pictures of your chest, five pictures your face, and it's going to cost you 150 bucks.” It's like, “Bro, I won't even get out of bed for $150.

[00:19:46] JPE: Ever. Ever. 

[00:19:48] JP: If you fool me right now, “Hey, I'll come to your house. I just need 10 pictures for 100 bucks.” I like, “Yo, that's going to be a no.” I just won't. It's not that I'm too cocky, or I’m like, I just know. There's no art in that for me. You'll never log on my page and really see a girl doing this or you know what I mean? Like, you're never going to see that. You're going to see, yeah, you're going to see a bunch of random stuff, because let’s be, adult sex sells and that's what industry we're in, right? But at the same time, it's a lot different from guys who were just out here doing whatever they want to do making money. Sure. I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying that's not me. 

[00:20:27] JPE: Exactly. I enjoy how you said that where, there are picture takers, and there are photographers, but I think that what separates those on different levels, also understanding that there's a business behind it, and that there are skills that you need to develop that are aside from the camera that are away from the computer and that if you don't have those skills, you’re always going to stay a picture taking or how you speak like, I tell people the story all the time, too. Someone I went into a photo shoot. I'm watching the shoot because I enjoy watching on the photographers work. Same way you do. 

[00:20:57] JP: Was this the –

[00:20:58] JPE: This was over here, I think. Downstairs. You said something about, if I do this,  it means close your mouth a little bit. If I go over here, open your mouth a little bit. I'm going to turn your head this way here. Ever since I saw that I'm like, it's amazing. I use it all the time when I'm shooting now. That's my thing now. I do because I remember you. I got it from you. 

[00:21:15] JP: Yeah. I got it from Joey and Chris, by the way.

[00:21:18] JPE: Okay. Well –

[00:21:19] JP: Can you see what I’m saying. This is sick, because now you're using it –

[00:21:22] JPE: I’m sure other people know.

[00:21:22] JP: I think a got a couple head movements from Chris, but I got like body posture directioning from Joey, but that's awesome [inaudible 00:21:31].

[00:21:31] JPE: If you pick up things that you know are going to make you a better photographer, and a better videographer and a better –

[00:21:38] JP: A better director, right? Like, a lot of these girls will come to me like, “I'm really bad at posing.” They're honest. “Listen, I don't want to pose.” I’m like, “Girl, I’m going to save your life. I'm good. I got you.” Right? I’ve got you.

[00:21:49] JPE: I've seen your pose. You get on the ground. You pop the booty up.

[00:21:52] JP: Had that lorry van fit for the first time. Art crazy, ever take a picture of me stretched out on the ground. I don’t know if you ever saw that picture, but that was crazy, but that's the shit. Girls respect that. I keep saying girls, I don't mean, this does sound direction towards them, but that's primarily who I've been working with for the past two years, right? Females, women, girls, whatever you want to say, clients, they look for what's going to set them apart, right? This same pose where the elbows above the head, a hands on the hip, what is natural about this? When in your life do you do this? When I tie my hair back is about the only time I lift my arm up like this. When I log on to a girl's page, and I see 10 pictures like this, I know she needs help, or at least that's the image she's giving off.

[00:22:36] JPE: Or maybe she's shooting with a photographer who doesn't know how to differentiate those poses.

[00:22:40] JP: Now why would she pay me an extra $100? 

[00:22:42] JPE: For that expertise and the knowledge, and that experienced. Yeah, 100%.

[00:22:46] JP: Some girls don't care about that. Some girls don't care at all. Do you have those girls? Do you ever shot those girls who are like, “I just want you to take pictures.” Like I – don't worry about it. I got it. 

[00:22:55] JPE: I've been lucky where I haven’t had too many of those.

[00:22:57] JP: Yeah. You’ve traded a very safe niche and look around you everywhere –

[00:23:02] JPE: I don't have too many of those. I've never had that experience. I've always had gross, we're always excited to try something new, or was excited to try different concepts. It's always a very comfortable flow of sharing ideas and sharing knowledge. I've never had that happen, but I know you've like, you’ve seen, no the [inaudible 00:23:16].

[00:23:17] JP: No. No. No. I was looking at my hair because my hair is little flopping from the –

[00:23:20] JPE: Your hair is perfect. 

[00:23:21] JP: Come again.

[00:23:21] JPE: Your hair is perfect. But I have something I like about you is that you're very vocal about the tribulations that photographers go through, that maybe models don't realize happen, or the way that we think that models and people outside of the industry don't understand completely. Like when we say we don't do like collabs, for example. We say that in our rates or X amount of money. Some people take it wrongly or they take it offensively. It isn't like that at all, but what you consider a hobby for us is the way our way of life. So you have a way of saying things that are entertaining, but also serious at the same time. I love how you do that.

[00:23:55] JP: We’re you specifically that? Because I know I've said some things that are probably a little, I want to be the ridiculous guy. I want people to be like, “Did you just really fucking say that?” I’m okay with that. That’s fine –

[00:24:05] JPE: If I remember something specific, but I know that you call out, no one specifically, but you definitely do mention like issue takes an entry on both ends, not just models, but also photographers, too.

[00:24:13] JP: Yeah. Well collab, a collab is a big thing. Even put that on my Instagram and it got 18,000 views in the first day. It was so ridiculous that people actually watched it. I’m like, “Oh, shit. I can understand what he's saying.” But like something as simple as collabs. You'd like, how many DMs you get in your inbox that are like, “Hey, I would love to collab with you soon.”

[00:24:31] JPE: All the time. 

[00:24:32] JP: Okay, cool. Do you know those people? 

[00:24:33] JPE: No.

[00:24:34] JP: Have they ever done anything for you in any way shape or form? 

[00:24:36] JPE: No.

[00:24:37] JP: A majority of them is there anything that you're going to get off of doing that collab?

[00:24:41] JPE: No.

[00:24:41] JP: Like I'm a realist, bro. I'm a realist. That's how I live my life as a realist. If you're a great person you could be literally the Pope's daughter, right? There's nothing – If I look at that person's profile and go like, all right, were their images, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying like one in a million, there's a million of that girl, but you haven’t worked with anybody yet that I feel like you've been developed into someone else. You're still that same primary person. Now I have homework. Now I have to teach you poses for my photo shoot. Now I have to instruct you. Now I have to style you, right? I'm not just a photographer. I know you got to see those ads all the time on Instagram. It’s like, we spend a lot of time editing doing this, and doing that, and doing that. Yeah, well on our shoos like me and you. Were stylists, or directors, or photographers, or entertainers, because now we're, “Hey, would you something to drink? Like water? Do you need to snack? Here's this or logistic guys set up hair and makeup.

[00:25:33] JPE: Lighting.

[00:25:33] JP: Lighting. Like, we're doing it all.

[00:25:35] JPE: Location scouting.

[00:25:36] JP: I'm going to do all that for a girl who has 5000 followers, 10,000. Not even, 30, 40, 60,000 followers, whatever, 100,000 followers. I'm like, okay, cool. Where am I going to pull my benefit out of giving you my time, as opposed to a client that hit me up and saying, “Hey, dude, what are you doing Tuesday? Well, that girl asked to collab with me on Tuesday.” I'm going to go to my client who's paying me, because she understands my level of dedication. I'm going to like, “Hey, I'm shooting you Tuesday.” That's what we're doing. What’s going on?

[00:26:04] JPE: Right.

[00:26:05] JP: Or I rather collab with that client, because that clients invested something in me at some point, whether it's time, money, effort, something. It's less about my outreach is really what I don't care about, to an extent, because I would be ignorant to say, I don't want people to know who I am, because that's how I get business. But if I do one photo shoot with you, that you what? You're going to post two pictures of it. I gave five hours of my day. There's just not enough benefit, man. It's not a collab for me. If I was like, “Hey, avail, just gave me some new bikinis. I need to shoot these bikinis. I haven't shot bikini in a while. I would love to sit down with you, if you are looking for this type of look. If you're okay with doing something with a bikini, I would be more than happy to collab with you. You do have to look that I need for the bikini look.

[00:26:51] JPE: Right.

[00:26:51] JP: Perfect. Because there's a goal I'm trying to achieve. You can help me with that I can help you with that. We knock it out. Perfect. That's a great collab. But a collab is not hitting you up and saying, “Hey, JP. I need you to,” which by the way the same initials. 

[00:27:04] JPE: Fuck, yeah.

[00:27:06] JP: Like if I hit you up and said, “Hey, I would love to collab with you.” But you don't have a collab project going on, that's not your fault. You can say, “Hey, this time I appreciate you reaching out. Thank you for noticing that you like my work. I appreciate that.” Or like, “No, I don't have any collabs right now. I'll keep you in mind if I have anything come up.” Then I send them a questionnaire. I usually send them a questionnaire or I send them to my website. I have them click book a shoot and then click collab. What they do is little write what they're into. So like, right now I have this girl, she's been reaching out to me like, two or three times, in the last four months. 

She's like, “Hey, I'm a wrestler. I'm a WWE wrestler. Do you have any cool collabs that you think might benefit from? Whether it's supplement company, bikini company that I could wear in the ring type of thing?” I was like, “Oh, dude. Great idea. Currently, no. Not right now. I don't.” I was like, “But let me keep you on deck. Fill out this form for me.” Then what I do is I have those forms on the side whenever I get a collab situation or a sponsor, or somebody that's like, “Hey, I'm sending you a couple of bikinis. See if you can shoot them on.” I go back to that list. I go, like a Rolodex. “Oh, this is going to be perfect.” You see what I'm saying? That's how I choose my collabs.

[00:28:17] JPE: Something I need to implement now in my website –

[00:28:20] JP: Yeah. Why not. You keep it in your Rolodex, right? If you're smart, and I'm going to give a little business advice, right? Because this is what I've done before, I know Ronald's done this before and a couple other people. You have clients that send you things that say like “Hey, if we like it, and we use it, we'll pay you 200, 300 photos, whatever, for a couple promo photos.” Sick. Awesome. Now I do that collab for free. I get what I need. She gets what she needs. I get some posts and some shout outs. Then later down the week or road, now obviously, you have that model sign a waiver, right, or a form release form for your stuff. Then later down the road when you hit send it back to that bikini like company like, “Oh, my God. We love these three photos. Here's 500 bucks.” That collab just turned into a paid shoot. That's something that I've been learning how to maneuver through as a photographer, and really go like, “Oh, this is another way I can turn collabs into business.”

[00:29:12] JPE: Right. Is it hard for you to find clients like that? Is it hard like the whole process of learning to who to reach out to and how to reach out to them? Is that something that took a while for you to get?

[00:29:20] JP: We’re people, people. I mean, you were people, people? I don't think we have that wrong. I think that's something that as long as we're continuously mastering our craft. I will never fully master my photography. I hope to be friends with only people who think they will never master photography. It's always changing. There's a new camera. There's a new setting. There's a new lens. There’s a new filter. It's always going to change, right? So just like, you're never going to be the best at Photoshop as long as they keep updating. 

[00:29:46] JPE: 100%.

[00:29:47] JP: As much as there's new stuff that's coming. I think that's probably the best part about it is that I have no problem reaching out to clients. I’m like, “Hey, my name is Joey P. I'm a photographer in your area. I would love to shoot some stuff for your products, whenever you have some free time. If you're interested in shooting me out some product, I'll keep it on my rack.” Like you have that rack right there. I put it right on my rack, when models come over and they want to select it. I shoot it. Why not? Doesn't hurt me. It makes me look cool that I work with other brands. It gives me a good benefit. It gives me a good rap. Then when I do deliver those images, I might get paid from it. I think coming up, that's what a lot of photographers should focus on.

[00:30:24] JPE: Like working with brands instead of models. 

[00:30:26] JP: Yeah. Not necessarily brands. Like I don't want to say brands and scare people. I’m not talking about Nike, Adidas. Some like John's haircut barber shop down the street, that if I go get a haircut, and then I come to a podcast. I go, “Shout out at John's, down the street for giving me a cut.” It’s love dude. Like that's going to one, I look better. Two, that's going to show him that he's showing love. Hopefully one guy goes and visits him. It's 10 bucks in his pocket. You know what I mean? Like little things like that. 

Work with the Mom and Pops first. Reach out to the Amazon companies. Reach out to Etsys. Reach out to those small businesses, coffee shops, coffee beans, stuff like that. That's what I'm doing on my podcast. I got coffee from Origin Coffee, [inaudible 00:31:04]. They send out bags. I'm like, “Yo, let's have espressos real quick. Bang them out. Appreciate you. Blah, blah, blah.” That's it, dude. Give me a 10 second plug on a show and they're stoked.

[00:31:14] JPE: It's all a small thing. Small things that give them on. I see them more often even as I get older. The small things matter the most. Even when it comes to – Yeah, shooting detail, like the details that you put in the most time into are the ones that people can remember in your shoot. Has it ever happened to you looking through, as you're scrolling and there are photos that make me just stop? You stop and you have to look like, “Wow, this photo is an amazing shot right here. This is a beautiful photo.” 

[00:31:36] JP: Why? Why is that? What stands out to you? When you look at that, when you see that photo, describe something that's in there that you like. See, that's something that misses, that a lot of people missed, like what would that be?

[00:31:45] JPE: It's hard to tell a story in a photo. If you can capture emotion in a photo, I think you’ve won.

[00:31:53] JP: Tenfold.

[00:31:53] JPE: I think you’ve won. In video it's a little easier to capture emotion, because – 

[00:31:55] JP: You think that’s model or do you think that's also? 

[00:31:57] JPE: It's both. It's both how light and image, how dark it is? The location, what she's wearing? There is a point in time before a pose, I think we spoke about this a long time ago. There's a point before a girl gets into a pose. There's a couple of seconds right before that happens where there's emotion, right? Whether she's thinking about getting into the pose, she's thinking about how she feels whatever the case is, there's an emotion there right before the pose. So if you can capture a couple of shots before she gets into that position, those photos end up being better than the posed shot.

[00:32:28] JP: Ten times. Ten-time over.

[00:32:30] JPE: With an emotion, we notice what it is. So going back to the collab thing. I love collabs when there's a mutual benefit, right? I get the message all the time. I'm always appreciative like you. I'm very appreciative that you reached out to me. I’m honored. It’s flattering. It’s super flattering. 

[00:32:44] JP: 100%. That, lets you know you’re doing the right thing. 

[00:32:46] JPE: Exactly. But like I said, it has to be mutually beneficial. I had a girl reach out to me, a couple months ago, and she said, “Look, my dad owns an old car garage in Hollywood. These are the ideas that I had. These are the cars are going to be present. Would you be interested in shooting that?” So pretty much I don't have to pick a location. I don't have to pick up. Don’t do anything. Just show up with my camera and my light. Then that's it, and you have everything else. Why would I say no to that? 

[00:33:08] JP: Yeah. That’s a good thing.

[00:33:09] JPE: You brought in some things that I couldn't get myself. I love that about a collab. That totally would take for me to collab with somebody.

[00:33:16] JP: Question for you. In that situation are they using those images for the cars? 

[00:33:21] JPE: No, for themselves. 

[00:33:22] JP: Okay, cool. They're not making –

[00:33:25] JPE: Not making money. No money –

[00:33:25] JP: See, that’s where, well, the reason I stopped you there, is I wanted to draw specific client –

[00:33:30] JPE: I know, yeah. There’s no way.

[00:33:32] JP: If I’m moving here, collabing with you and you’re taking those photos and selling them, we have a fucking problem.

[00:33:36] JPE: Yeah, of course, 100%. No, just for her and for her Instagram page. It was very, very cool. I met the dad and now that's a location that I could use in the future if I wanted to rent it out. 

[00:33:44] JP: That relationship right there, it’s a network.

[00:33:47] JPE: Right, but she put in the effort. It wasn't just like, “Hey, let's shoot. It was, “Hey, how are you? So and so. This is what I want to bring to the shoot. This is what I want to bring to you. Are you interested?” You gave me the opportunity to say yes or no. So I respect that because again, we're also businessmen, right? How you communicate with somebody that you want to work with is so important. I have modeled and I'm not going to call any names either, but that girl who slide into my DM. They're just like, hey, and this is what your story. I'll be in town next week. No, hello. No, how are you? Doesn't even follow me and I said, “Congratulations, enjoy your trip.” Right. There's no question at all. This happens a lot more often than I would hope, right? Again we’re people, right? Our job is photo, but we're still people before then. You have to be able to communicate with somebody about anything.

[00:34:29] JP: Yeah. Because I’ll say right now, if you don't vibe with somebody even models that I've been hired from. If I don't vibe with them, I had the worst time and hard, it’s hard to shoot that. 

[00:34:36] JPE: Yeah, definitely.

[00:34:37] JP: It's not easy to show people that you don't fuck with.

[00:34:39] JPE: Yeah. Play straight out. I’ve shot people. I've done with clients that literally booked me for like bikini shoot. Oh, hey, I'm trying to build a portfolio for bikini. Okay, cool. Let's shoot it. We'll shoot it. I’ll give direction. I'll give respectful direction, right? Like I never ever, ever. Even with people that I still shoot today like, Sammy Jo, right? I always, every single shoot, “Hey girl, same things with me, okay? I'll never ever touch you.” I'll always ask before I move your hair or just something like very, very respectful. Very, very hands-off, but hands-on. A lot of those, give those directions and you have those girls that is like, “Yeah, but that's not my favorite thing. I don't want to do that.”

Absolutely no problem, but then they just continue to tell you no, no, no. I don't like that side of my face. I don’t like that side of my body. Okay, so what do you like? What do you want me to do? Take a picture of the side? There we go. We're done. It becomes less of a, either trusting me to make a vision for them and it becomes more of you're telling me to take a picture, right? 

[00:35:40] JPE: That's not from [inaudible 00:35:40].

[00:35:40] JP: Get a tripod.

[00:35:41] JPE: Right.

[00:35:42] JP: You get a tripod with one of those little remotes to sell on Amazon for 15 bucks. You take care of yourself and have a good day –

[00:35:48] JPE: They come to you for – I tell people this all the time. Shooting is not just a shoot. Not just photos, it’s an experience. You're sharing a couple hours with somebody, you're sharing their energy, sharing their creativity, you're paying for the experience of being with that person a lot. That's at a value that isn't financial.

[00:36:04] JP: You know what I tell, I love that you said experience, because that's a thing in my head. A couple of my favorite friends that I shoot with and also models, I tell them, “Yo, if you're in this type of work, right, if you're into this only fans, bikini, lingerie, type genre, and you've never shot with Mike –

[00:36:22] JPE: You’re missing out.

[00:36:23] JP: You need to shoot with Mike. They're like, “Well, why would you pass me off to another photographer?” First of all, if I like JP, I can go shoot with everybody in the world for free. I'm still going to come back to you and book you. That tells me who you are as a person. If you like me, right, like Nikki Lucero, right. Never Am I ever afraid of passing her and all my homies that are great photographers and saying,”Yo, do you create something dope with her.” Because she'll still call me like, “Joey, I fucking miss you. Let's shoot.” Right? “Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. Here's my schedule.” Right? I'm not scared of that. What I am jealous of is different experiences that people offer that I miss out on. 

[00:37:00] JPE: Right. I hear things like, “Oh, dude, why do you tell people to go shoot with Mike Ohrangu Tang, all the time?” “Dude, Uncle Mike is, by far I've heard nothing, but the most positive experience feedbacks, whether it's everything from the music that they play, to just the vibe, the aesthetic. When you walk into his house, it's just like, this is a fucken cool spot. I feel cool by being here. That's what he's creating. That experience is worth the money alone. I don't even know his rates. I'm telling you right now, I'd pay him tenfold. 

[00:37:34] JPE: 100% 

[00:37:35] JP: Because I've never heard a person leave that photoshoot talking about, “Oh, yeah. Select the 10 great images. I selected 15 good images. We had a good time.” When we talked about this, it was always like, “Yo, I had the greatest time. We listened to music. We had fun. Christina dresses me, we did styling.” That experience is why people shoot with photographers, bro, right? That's why I have the same, I shooting girl, Sarah Cheek. That she books me all the time. I'm literally the only photographer that shoots her because she knows what she's paying for. She knows when I come there. Respectful. I hang out with their kids. “Hello, Uncle Joe.” You know what I mean? I'm dapping up her husband and we’re like, “Yo, let's go get a beer.”

I'm providing a full level of experience. Then outside of that we're still friends. I still call her like, “Yo, what's going on with this?” “Sammy Joe, hey, I still do this. What's wrong with that?” We still chat, dude. That's what it's about is providing that level of professionalism, the experience that they get they know when I shoot with Joey P. They're getting this and no less. They're not like, “Oh, I shoot with Joey P. This time was great, but that's how it was.” I don't ever go down. I'm always adding things, too. Right. I want to ask you this, this is really important to me, because I want to learn from people. I still learn from you, which is cool, because like, I've met you through Sandy, I think.

[00:38:55] JPE: Yeah. through Sandy.

[00:38:56] JP: Which is like, “Oh, yeah. He's my manager.” At the time, this is when you just got into –

[00:39:00] JPE: Into photography. 

[00:39:01] JP: You were just getting your photography. She's like, “Yeah. He’s just messing around with a couple of pictures, but like, you know, I want to do some more, which.” I live like three miles from her house or something. I was like when I was bored. I would just go there, hang out, smoke a little bit, shoot some shit, and then leave. We just chill, promise. When you shoot people, are there things that you look, you just told me you learned something from me, right? Like a little direction, little things like that. Are there things that you look for and just consistently add to your repertoire? If you do, are they noticeable? Do models who notice them? Like when they come here and you offer them a drink of water. They’ll go like, “Oh, no one ever asked me if I’m fine. Thanks. I am comfortable.” You know what I’m saying?

[0:39:42] JPE: Yeah, a 100%.

[0:39:43] JP: Are they vocal with you about that thing? Because I think that's one, something that models need to be more of.

[00:39:48] JPE: I like the direction we're going. So something that I always do all the time and it gets annoying. I tell them it's going to be super, super annoying. How are you feeling? Are you okay? Are you thirsty? Are you hungry? Do you want to stop? Do you want to take break? I'm constantly, it'll be every five minutes, and ask, are you okay? How are you feeling? Because a lot of photographers don't worry enough. Something that we, and I don't want to say that we forget, but it's something that I see a lot of younger photographers do, is that they forget that you're shooting with another person. 

[00:40:16] JP: Yeah. 

[00:40:17] JPE: Right. The people who are in the industry for the wrong reasons, objectify that person that they're shooting with, and they forget that they're an individual, has thoughts, and emotions. If we're living man, if it's noon, and it's 90 degrees outside, and you're sweating, and the sun's in your eye, and you're uncomfortable. The least you can do is ask how are you feeling.

[00:40:34] JP: Yeah, or hand you water.

[00:40:36] JPE: Or hand you a water bottle.

[00:40:36] JP: Take a five minute break.

[00:40:37] JPE: Or let’s sit down. Let you know like, the least you can do is treat somebody like a person, right? Even in here, we have air conditioner, wherever. I'm always going to ask how are you feeling? Are you comfortable? Are you good? You want to take a break? Because I don't feel like enough photographers do that. You can always tell by looking at somebody what their feelings. Sometimes you have to ask. I think it's okay. 

[00:40:53] JP: Do you think that besides at our level. Do you think that's the thing that's in the big industry. When I say big industry, I'm talking vogue like, editorial.

[00:41:02] JPE: I hope so. 

[00:41:02] JP: Because I'm going to be honest with you. I think about it. Every movie we've ever seen with a photographer, being in the movie. They’re not personal. They walk in. They bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. They put the camera down, they leave. There's no like –

[00:41:11] JPE: I hope it’s not like that. I hope that there is a person like, there are a couple of photographers that I follow that are at that level. They seem to be like regular people. They seem to be empathetic and genuine. I hope to if I ever get to that level, I don't know, to continue holding those characteristics, even at that level, because it's being a person and being personable and being authentic and being empathetic to somebody else that you're working with, because it is work. You're working with somebody.

[00:41:35] JP: I always wonder that. I’m always like, are there other people that are like, because I’ll be honest with you, I see a lot of photographers and when I say a lot, I mean 80% don't give direction. Don't ask the client, or over asked the wrong things.

[00:41:49] JPE: Like what?

[00:41:50] JP: If you're asking a client, “How are you feeling? You feel good? You need water? Right? You're asking for their physical health or their mental health if they need a five minutes to just like answer a text or something. Get off the sides. Sit down for a second, take a breath. There's guys that would be like, “Hey, I don't make you awkward, do I? I don't make you uncomfortable, do I?” Or, “Hey, if you're okay, shooting lingerie, do you mind taking your top-” They're asking those first-time questions on the spot. Rather than having those conversations. “Hey, this is what if you're going to come here and we're going to shoot. We're going to shoot lingerie. You said you want to shoot for your only fans. So I understand that some time.” 

You don't tell, you never tell a model. I don't I can't tell you how many times I've heard photographers be like, “What we're going to do is this.” How you word it, which is where it's very important is, “Hey, where do you feel comfortable, topless, implied bottomless, full bottom?” Where are you going? Like I don't want to imply anything, I want to know. I don't ask you to do something or give you direction to do something that makes you feel uncomfortable as a person. That is a woman, not as a man, as a human being. I don't ever want to put you in an awkward position, because what I've noticed and I hope you've noticed this too, this is how you're going to figure out if you're noticing things is if you can look at a photo and tell someone's uncomfortable. Nine times out of 10 it’s a horrible photo.

[00:43:12] JPE: 100%.

[00:43:13] JP: If you're confident level is 1000 that photo is going to come out phenomenal and you can be eaten a frickin cheeseburger, bro.

[00:43:18] JPE: You could be in Turtle neck on the bathtub or a trash can. You can –

[00:43:24] JP: Yeah. You can be in an airplane flying in the sky and I can take a picture right here in your studio. 

[00:43:27] JPE: You can tell.

[00:43:27] JP: Like, that's a good photo, because that chick was happy.

[00:43:30] JPE: Even something small like, being hungry. You can tell they're hungry, right? 

[00:43:33] JP: Dude, you just know something's not perfect. Something’s not right. That is a huge thing that I think a lot of photographers miss the key on. Their like, “Oh, my God. Does this photo look great? Look at the lighting. Look at the skin.

[00:43:45] JPE: She looks miserable. 

[00:43:46] JP: Look at this. Look at the post. It looks great. Look at her fucking face, bro. She looks she wants to smack you in the mouth for not offering her water and it's 9000 degrees outside in Jamaica. You know what I’m saying? Like, I’m just like, dude, come on.

[00:44:00] JPE: Let's talk more about etiquette because I love the direction we're in right now. I've heard horror stories about photographers, horror stories. There has to be certain, again, this is a business at the end of the day. When you’re shooting with somebody, you’re shooting with another person and you're working, right? There's levels of etiquette – like, I'm not saying we review. I don't touch. I asked if like, “Hey, can I move this out of your hair? Can I do this? Can I adjust over here?” You have to do that because it's basic photography 101, it's be a person – you're talking to a person, you're working with a person. So there are things that I've heard. I wasn't in front of me ever, but I've heard like touching and grabbing and pulling –

[00:44:34] JP: They’ve never seen in from you? 

[00:44:35] JPE: That is what I've been lucky at that point.

[00:44:37] JP: Have you done a lot of power shoots? 

[00:44:39] JPE: I haven't. I haven’t. I’m not a power shoot guy. 

[00:44:41] JP: Dude, take your ass to one power shoot. Don’t even bring your camera.

[00:44:43] JPE: You think so?

[00:44:44] JP: Take your ass to a power shoot –

[00:44:45] JPE: I feel like, I’ll get upset.

[00:44:47] JP: I’ve walked out.

[00:44:49] JPE: That’s more of me.

[00:44:49] JP: I’ve literally walked out of power shoots.

[00:44:51] JPE: Why?

[00:44:52] JP: I know, I’m not of the 20, not even 15 power shoots that I've been to in my life. I've maybe taken pictures of three of them, or maybe.

[00:45:02] JPE: I got invited all the time, but that isn't really my sin. I've never been to.

[00:45:04] JP: It wasn't mine either. The first time I went, I went and met Joey Wright. The first time I ever went to a power shoot. It was at CNI studios right downtown Fort Lauderdale. I was hanging with Chris Headshots, he introduced me to Joey Wright and the whole crew. That's another story. Power shoots, I think that's what they call it. I say it like I'm a vet. I don’t fucking know it. I think that's what they call it. I've heard it called a couple of different things, but if you want to see 90% of what's wrong with this industry, go to a power shoot that just invites everyone.

There’s some power shoots where I’ll give it to them, where I'm like, okay, these four or five guys are pretty cool. But there's some power shoots where I’m like – like this guy's taking pictures of a model, who he's asked to shoot with, who's declined him respectfully. Now, she's shooting with another photographer and he's off to the side, taking low-key photos, or pulled out his cellphone, pretends like he's texting, and he's doing a video of her the whole time from the back. You know what I mean? Just weird creepiness.

I personally think it's those type of photographers are the picture takers that I was telling you about. Those are the guys that are doing it for the wrong reasons. Those are the guys that are taking pictures to talk to girls. Those are guys that are taking pictures to feel like the cool happening guy to have better conversations with women. They're not getting them. What they're doing is they're taking them anyway. Do you know what I'm saying? Seriously, it's those awkward situations. It's the guys that walk up and they give a girl a hug, and they put their hand on their back, but too low.

[0:46:43] JPE: The smallest little things, like keep people out.

[0:46:44] JP: Just the little things that you're just like, “You're not there, bro. She doesn't like you. I promise you.” The things that make girls uncomfortable and things that make guys uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable standing next to someone who's doing stuff like that.

[0:46:55] JPE: I would be uncomfortable. Look, I've never seen that in front of me, or no one has the audacity to do that in front of me.

[0:47:00] JP: Dude, that’s crazy to have seen that.

[0:47:01] JPE: I've heard stories, though. I've heard crazy stories. Sometimes I just feel like, I want to offer water. Hey, the fridge is open with a bunch of water bottles of water on there, grab whichever one you like. Especially when I've shot with somebody for the first time, you always want to be – you want to establish a professional relationship from the beginning. Then if you end up being fronted to that point, you're frightened. That's cool.

[0:47:21] JP: What is your – I don't know if you get DMs like this. I'm not going to call anyone out, but I'm going to call out a specific situation. I got a DM from a female, who basically, she's I believe in the sex-working industry, which, cool. I mean, they make pretty good bread. She does only fan stuff. She was like, “Hey, I would love to do work with you. Have some work with you.” I was like, “Yeah, cool. Here's my rates, no problem.” Second I sent that, they’re like, “Awesome. Cool. I'll review it.” I thought everything was like, “All right.” They go typical, whatever.

Then I would get the, “Oh, do you do anything else, like trade?” I'm like, “Trade? Do you have a brand? Are you working with another company? Are you going to send me clients? If you bring me three girls, I'll probably do a look with you. No problem. Yeah, let's kill it. If you're going to bring other money some other places, yeah we can always work around stuff.” “No, no. I was thinking more like, sexually.” I'm like, “No, I'm sorry. I don’t shit where I eat.” I really try not to.

You don't work at footlocker and sell shoes to the girl that you're having sex with every day and have sex with all your people that you’re selling shoes to. You know what I mean? You know what I’m saying? It's probably a bad analogy, but you get what I mean. As a photographer, you can't shit where you eat. Not only is it hard enough to be in a relationship as a photographer doing the stuff that we do, period. Now, if you seriously sat down and tried to hook up with – if you were shooting five girls today, and you tried to hook up with three of them, in a year, you probably could, without them knowing, very rare. If you think you're not going to have bad stories told about you and your career's over, you're dead wrong.

[0:49:00] JPE: You become that creeper photographer after one shoot, one bad shoot.

[0:49:03] JP: Seriously. Seriously, bro. It's bad, especially down here, because Only Fans, isn't it primarily out of LA and Florida?

[0:49:11] JPE: The big cities. LA, yeah. LA and Miami. Not even New York, because it's too cold.

[0:49:16] JP: I know Vera Sminova. Shout out to Vera Sminova. She lives in New York. She doesn't dump shit, and walks down the street, lifting her skirt up. I'm like, scrolling through. I’m like, “What are you doing in New York? It's freezing.” What this sort of. She’s so cool. She’s such a cool girl. Dude, such etiquette is so important. I feel like, it's just people don't realize how important it is. Then they're asking me, “Oh, how are you getting booked like that? How are people paying your full rates?” Dude, because I'm being professional. I don't want to hook up with these models.

[0:49:46] JPE: Just going back with the experience of shooting with you. You treat them like a person.

[0:49:49] JP: Yeah. It’s making people comfortable. Not making people comfortable knowing you're trying to be a scumbag. Let's make that clear. I'm not making you comfortable so that I can – I'm making you comfortable because I want you to convey comfort in the images that we're about to get.

[0:50:06] JPE: I want you to be proud of the images that we make.

[0:50:08] JP: Yeah. I want you to look and feel like, when you look at those photos, I want you to go when you're 90 when you look back at them and be like, “Hey, I was a dirty bit.” No. I want you to look back and be like, “Yo, you know how I felt when I was at that shoot with Joe P on December 7th?” I want you to remember everything about that shoot. “I had a great time. That bikini looked great. I killed that shit. He made me look awesome.” I want that. That's the part I want to create.

[0:50:33] JPE: I think it's more than that. It's not that he made me look – he made me feel –

[0:50:36] JP: Feels, right?

[0:50:37] JPE: Because sometimes we you forget names and places and dates, but you never forget emotion. If you can make somebody feel good about themselves, they're always going to remember that and associate you with that moment.

[0:50:47] JP: That’s so true. Because the two things that I think about whenever I go somewhere is what kind of time I had. Oh, I'll never go back. Had a horrible dinner there. Or I had it great, so that you're absolutely right. It's expression. It's emotion.

[0:51:00] JPE: Yeah, that's what I want. I got a text. I did a shoot this summer. I send the photos out, she gave me her favorites. I sent her back the edits. She sent me this whole paragraph about how she's never felt sexy in a photo before. She's a model who models constantly a lot.

[0:51:18] JP: She's never felt sexy about herself?

[0:51:19] JPE: She’s never felt sexy about herself. She shoots lingerie and I fly and stuff like that. I send her the photos back. This is one of the things. I still have the screenshot and everything. I look back at every now and then. Because that's what we want us photographers. We want to be able to create something that people are – not only are we proud about it, but it makes you feel good about yourself. Why would you be in the industry where you don't feel good and you're not making people feel good as well, right? When somebody sends you a message, and I'm sure you get them all the time like, “Wow, I feel amazing. I look amazing.”

[0:51:47] JP: It’s like, I can't believe you made me feel like –

[0:51:49] JPE: I can't believe you made me feel. That's when I know, if you're not getting those kinds of emotional responses from your photos, you're doing something wrong. Either you don't care enough, you're not editing well enough, you're not making the environment comfortable for that person. There are things you can tell. If you're not getting those responses back from your clientele, there's something wrong. You have to self-adjust yourself. Something that I like, because I can call you up and be like, “Hey, what do you think about these sets of images?” You would tell me, “Hey, your shadows are whack. This doesn't look good.”

I can't be upset about that, because it's coming from a place of up here, and then you want me to do well. I feel like, a lot of young photographers, they don't ask enough and they don't critique enough their work. Especially if they're serious. I've been asked through, that's different. Don’t ask anybody.

[0:52:28] JP: They don't care if they accomplished anything. Like that thing I sent you a couple weeks ago from that magazine, who I'm not going to name. Horrible selection. Then they messaged me two weeks later asking me to be the cover. I'm just saying. No, that's super important, bro. Those things, I feel are overlooked. I feel like, they're overlooked for selfish reasons.

[0:52:46] JPE: What do you mean?

[0:52:47] JP: I feel like the photographer really just wants to shoot a chick in a bikini. Think about it. Most of those issues happen at a level where like, let's be real, you're not on my level if you're having those issues. Because I don't look up to you in the sense of – Mike, I guarantee you, Mike and Christina look at people and they’re like, “How are you feeling? Oh, so pretty.”

[0:53:06] JPE: I’ve been there. Yeah. I’ve been there.

[0:53:08] JP: Bro, feel great. How are you doing? Yeah, she looks great. You look fine. [Inaudible 0:53:12]. No, but you know what I mean? Any great photographer wants to know or can tell them where something's, “You look tired. Let’s take a break.”

[0:53:25] JPE: Something is off. What’s going on?

[0:53:27] JP: Yeah. If you can, get out of the industry. Because you need to be a professional photographer you really need to know when your client is not at her peak, his or her peak, whatever. I think that's awesome that you notice that, because that tells me that the people I keep around me are at the same level, if not better than me.

I hate to keep going back to this old cat limb I'm saying. But if you're not getting better and better and better talking and better and better and better, I don't want to fuck with you. If you're doing the same thing for 10 fucking years, cool, bro. I'm not mad at you. I'm not mad at you. I'm not hating at all. Don't expect me to be hanging around you, because I'm trying to get bigger, and at my own pace. Everybody's got their own things going on in their life.

[0:54:08] JPE: 100%.

[0:54:09] JP: Buying houses and COVID and whatever the fuck you’re doing.

[0:54:12] JPE: Kids.

[0:54:13] JP: Yeah, kids, and whatever bro. I get it, but I think that for the most part, being professional, having set etiquette, being someone who can be reliable. If you're showing up to your shoots at the same time as your model, you're wrong. If you're showing up to your shoots looking like a sloppy mess, all at a – whatever, your batteries aren't charged, your cards aren't set up. OD. OD. I get it every now and then, you're like, “Fuck, I forgot to wipe that card last night.” You got to sit there and wipe it in your camera. Cool. Got it. I understand little things. You're showing up to shoots and your lenses or at home, or your SD cards are not in your bag. I'm like, I've done that before. I showed up to a shoot with the SD card not on the bag and immediately was like, “Fuck. My whole life last, bro.”

[0:55:06] JPE: Go to Walgreens.

[0:55:07] JP: Out my door. What I did was I lied to the model. I said that if something was wrong, I was going to be a little late. I was late. For that, for me being late, I paid for it 10-fold and I edited an extra 10 images for her. I went above and beyond to say like, “Yo, I understand your time is valuable. Here's how valuable it is. I'm giving you a $100 in edits. Here you go.” You know I’m saying? Take those. I'm sorry. That'll never happen again. I apologize.” She was like, “Yo.” Nine times out of 10, most of these models are super understandable. They’re like, “Yo, I get it. Don't stress. Don't trip. That's not a big deal.” It is a big deal.

[0:55:43] JPE: Every now and then.

[0:55:44] JP: Yeah, no loud hiccups. We're humans. What I'm saying is those people that show up to shoots with one battery, their camera in their hand, one lens, they're sweating from the party that they left the night before. All they want to do is shoot this girl, so they can see a picture of her in a bikini. Those are the people I have problems with.

[0:56:03] JPE: 100%.

[0:56:04] JP: I just feel like, eh. You don't feel like that? You don't feel like there's people in this industry that just give you a bad rap?

[0:56:09] JPE: They do. But I'm not around them enough to care. I’m not even around them enough for them to affect me. I'll hear stories and because I'm so far removed from that, that's not even an option for me at this point. For you, too, I'm sure – the idea of even being in the same room with that individual doesn't occur to you.

[0:56:26] JP: That’s why I when it comes to those situations, that's why I'm so passionate about not fucking with those people, is because I want every person I sit in the room with that's a photographer to be like – I want to sit with only good people. It's hard to like, if I go to a power shoot, I'm assuming, I walk in that shoe going, everyone in here is like me and JP and Joey. Everyone in here is respectful, knowledgeable, cool. Then I see him and I'm like, “Uh.” People like that, I'm out.

[0:56:56] JPE: You couldn't do it. I’m not [inaudible 0:56:56] till next week. I don't know if I'm going to go.

[0:56:59] JP: Was it the one in Miami with, I don't want to say his name, but –

[0:57:04] JPE: I don’t have Monday to be up to – It’s fun. I got a message from a model. She wanted, “Is this real?” I’m like, “What’s real?” She sends me a copy and paste of, I guess, the power shoot. It's a bunch of photographers and then my name is in there.

[0:57:15] JP: Is Joe Rike going to be there?

[0:57:16] JPE: Supposedly. I don’t –

[0:57:17] JP: Yes. Okay, so it’s the same too.

[0:57:18] JPE: Okay, cool. Oh, so maybe I’ll go with you.

[0:57:20] JP: Yo, you should go. We should go. We should go, I’m going to hand walk you. That's one of the events that I was telling you, that when I walked in, I saw the guy in his cellphone taking underpants and views, videos and stuff. That's where I'd called him out on the spot.

[0:57:33] JPE: It happened to me one time with an owner of an Airbnb. We went to an Airbnb on Marco. Little Marco. We were shooting and we shouldn't have implied stuff. The owner for some reason would not leave.

[0:57:42] JP: I know what you're talking about. I think I know exactly what you’re talking about.

[0:57:46] JPE: The dude would not leave. What the fuck? We're shooting by the pool.

[0:57:49] JP: With his phone.

[0:57:50] JPE: This phone. He’s all the way in the back.

[0:57:52] JP: Does it every time.

[0:57:52] JPE: Had to go up to him and said, “Hey, yo. No, this isn't happening. I don't mind me paying. I don't need your spot. You’re here, because you got to be here. I don't need your spot for you to make this little uncomfortable, so you can get off.” Then like, that’s impossible. I told him. He goes, “Oh, my bad. Won't happen again. Whatever, whatever.” Happened twice. We packed up. We packed up, we left, because it's not how things work.

[0:58:12] JP: I would have for sure. I would have for sure.

[0:58:14] JPE: Yeah. There’s no way.

[0:58:15] JP: If they set the place, and I’ll talk to you after that. If it’s at the place where I think it is, I got to tell you.

[0:58:18] JPE: Yeah. The dude would not leave. In what world is the owner of an Airbnb stay for a photoshoot?

[0:58:24] JP: What do you do? You leave.

[0:58:24] JPE: Yeah, leave. I packed up my stuff. Said, we got to go.

[0:58:27] JP: What do you tell the model?

[0:58:27] JPE: I said, this guy's been creepy, we’re going to leave.

[0:58:29] JP: Cool. You’re straight up. You’re not sugarcoating. Like, hey, let's wrap it early. No, you’re shooting –

[0:58:33] JPE: No. I approached him the first time in front of other girls. Like, I'm not scared about approaching somebody over some bullshit. Especially, you're not going to make my clients feel uncomfortable.

[0:58:42] JP: They appreciate you for that. I just want to let you know that. I've had so many girls tell me like, “Hey, I really appreciate you for sticking up for me and talking to that guy.” They don't even see it.

[0:58:51] JPE: Yeah, they don’t.

[0:58:52] JP: They’re worried about, “Hey, how do I look?”

[0:58:53] JPE: Exactly.

[0:58:53] JP: They don’t see there’s some creep right there.

[0:58:54] JPE: You're being human. That's what people forget. That's what upsets me about the industry, that you forgot to be a person and that you're dealing with another person. How would you want to be treated in a situation where you feel uncomfortable, you don't feel safe? You want to be treated right, like an individual. Then when you don't have that empathy.

[0:59:11] JP: Do you have any projects that you would really want to create, like a look, or a vision, or an aesthetic you really want to create, but you can't find the right model, or the right one you know won’t answer your DM? Do you know what I mean by that?

[0:59:25] JPE: I know exactly what you mean.

[0:59:26] JP: Okay. I’m going to fix that angel lingerie in the clouds. Just something cool. Something really dope, but then you know, you don't have the model for that in your Rolodex. The one you do, you're just like, if I message her, she's going to be like, “Yeah, my rates are $5,000.”

[0:59:42] JPE: I know what you mean.

[0:59:43] JP: Do you have that?

[0:59:44] JPE: Most recently, I've always wanted to shoot in the desert. There's no deserts here in Portland. I'm going to go to Utah in a couple of weeks. We're going to go to Moab with a bunch of the girls, and so it's going to be a whole desert theme vibe. I'm able to fulfill that fantasy of shooting up the desert and it's going to be cool. That's the only thing I don't like, it's going to be freezing.

[1:00:00] JPE: Ice cold.

[1:00:02] JP: Don’t go at night. Like 30s.

[1:00:03] JPE: That’s what I hear. Anything colder than 70 is a pain for me. I hear, it’s going to be in the 30s.

[1:00:09] JP: A pain for you.

[1:00:11] JPE: I’m so sorry. This horrible situation. I feel real bad from what – Hopefully, I don't put you up. But if I could pick any scenario. I've always wanted to shoot with Barbara Palvin. I don't know if you know she – 

[1:00:24] JP: The dream with Barbara Palvin. Yeah.

[1:00:27] JPE: I would die to shoot Barbara Palvi, but I know her rates are going to be $1,000 an hour, and there's no way.

[1:00:32] JP: Yeah, that’s the hook-up.

[1:00:35] JPE: That’s the bro rate. I would love to do something. I'm not a huge swimwear guy. I can shoot swimwear, but it isn’t my forte. Barbara's forte is swimwear. I would love to shoot swimwear with Barbara Palvin. I would retire after that shoot. There are some models and this is what I look for when it comes to a collab. People would hit me up and ask, “Hey, what would it take to collab?” Can you show emotion? Can you convey something with your face? If I were to just have your head and we'll just do straight portraits, can you show me emotion? Can you be somber?

[1:01:06] JP: Can [inaudible 1:01:05].

[1:01:06] JPE: Yeah, can you be somber? Can you be excited? Can you be confused? Can you show me motion in a model situation? If you can do it, like even if a girl has no followers, if I can see that she can show emotion, I'm going to make it work. I'm going to find a way to make that happen.

[1:01:20] JP: When you said that, when you said if I had just your head, immediately, I was like, Zoolander. I just know. Is like, is that what it is –

[1:01:31] JPE: It’s hard to find that. We’re very lucky we have a lot of Wait bodies here in South Florida. It's, can you show you emotion? You know what? I think the models out in New York are the best at showing emotion?

[1:01:42] JP: You know why? Because they can't show body. [Inaudible 1:01:43]. Oh, my God. It’s, oh, my God. They’re like, “Oh, you’re cold. Got it.”

[1:01:54] JPE: Yeah, that's what I look for, a model who has that range with her face. With even shoulders and things.

[1:01:59] JP: Are you believer that when you use the word model, do you use it tightly, or do you use it openly?

[1:02:05] JPE: You’re a model. I’m a model. My dog’s a model. Everyone can model. Every single person can model.

[1:02:09] JP: How do you feel about people who are model word protectors? Do you know what I mean by that?

[1:02:13] JPE: No. What do you mean?

[1:02:14] JP: Okay, so I'm going to grant you to a direction. I think, model is a generalized term. I don't like Instagram model, TikTok model. I'm not that person. I don't need it intricately. If you are using your look to sell an item, product or service, you are a model.

[1:02:33] JPE: Correct.

[1:02:33] JP: This glass is a model of some sort, that’s selling liquor that's being poured into it. A model is something that you use to convey sales, or direction from. Just like a mannequin, right? If you can think of it like that. When people use it, we're like, oh, some girls that I meet, they're not really models. I'm like, “That girl made $10,000 selling bikinis from her Instagram. She's a model.” She's like, “No, she's not. She's never done New York City Fashion Week. She's never.” I think the word model has grown so much.

[1:03:08] JPE: There's no choice. It has to grow. It has to. There's no choice.

[1:03:10] JP: Yeah, and I love that you just that. This model. That model. That's cool. Because that tells you that you're open to that side of thinking. That’s really cool.

[1:03:20] JPE: If you want to pull up the camera you and I can shoot. You’d be my model for –

[1:03:23] JP: I’m a model.

[1:03:24] JPE: I know you are. Everyone's a model. I think, the only difference how much of your life you are – yeah.

[1:03:33] JP: What were you going to say? Watch what you’re going to say. What were you going to say?

[1:03:35] JPE: I love [inaudible 1:03:35]. I'm more protective of the word photographer than I am a model.

[1:03:41] JP: Yeah. That's why I have picture taker. That is the easiest way for me to separate yourself who is a photographer from someone that I see that's – I don't always mean it negative, too. I want to make that understood. When I say picture taker, I'm not saying like, “That guy's just the fucking picture taker.” I'm saying like, he hasn't gotten there yet. That's all. He's a picture taker. He's not there yet. He hasn't put enough homework in. Dude, I quit my full-time job when I got in the military to pursue something I had no idea if I was good at. That's a photographer. A picture taker is somebody who's working at Starbucks, and slinging fucking mocha frappe latte frachinos for 3.99 an hour.

[1:04:21] JPE: Slinging what?

[1:04:22] JP: I don’t know. Whatever the fuck is on there. I don’t go to Starbucks. You know what I mean? Then they're taking pictures living in their mom's attic, trying to figure out if they even want to do this for a living. Line girls and tell them, “Yeah, hang out with Joey P and JP all the time.” Seriously, those are picture-takers to me. Those are those are people that I hope that they learn and they get better. A lot of people are okay with just doing that.

[1:04:51] JPE: I mean, I respect that if that’s all you want to do.

[1:04:54] JP: Do you get models that say like, “Oh, I can't get my pictures taken for free. Why do I have to pay your high rates?” You ever get that?

[1:04:59] JPE: I have. I think the worst – not the worst one, but the one that I was like, “Wow, you're very audacious.”

[1:05:07] JP: You’re dropping full vocabulary on these girls.

[1:05:09] JPE: She's led me to my DMs and she goes, “Oh, I love to shoot with you. I love your work.” I said, “Thank you so much. I'm flattered. Here are my rates for shooting.” She said, “Oh, I appreciate it, but it’s just a hobby for me.” I was like, “This is my livelihood. My livelihood is your hobby.” I didn't respond like that. I just said, “Thank you. Have a great day.” On my head, I'm like, can you imagine – I had to go on our page and see who she’s shooting with. Because if you do value working off, because using [inaudible 1:05:37], “I'm not the first guy you said that to for sure.”

[1:05:40] JP: Yeah, a 100%. A 100%.

[1:05:41] JPE: For some reason, I wanted to look through the photographers she shot with to see who heard that –

[1:05:45] JP: Because you know, who's charging, for sure.

[1:05:46] JPE: Yeah. But also, who heard that from her and who said, “Okay.”

[1:05:51] JP: I'll shoot with you anyway.

[1:05:52] JPE: Because that's not only devaluing your work, but everyone else’s in the industry. By you letting her say that to you in that way and still shooting. Because it isn't a hobby for you. If it pays your bills, it's not a hobby. It's your livelihood. If someone doesn't appreciate your livelihood enough to even ask for rates, why would you still go ahead and do it? I saw that as a photographer and they like, they said they were picture-takers. That was very interesting to me. Again, I love to collab. I don't mind collabbing at all, as long as it’s a mutual benefit. I don't mind collabbing.

[1:06:21] JP: A 100%.

[1:06:22] JPE: It’s how she said. She just called it a hobby. She said, my life is a hobby. I’m like, no, you’re a hobby.

[1:06:28] JP: Yeah. Hold on one second. You mean this? This is a hobby? Yeah, that's also why I'm not going to shoot you. Enjoy your fucking selfies, bitch. What is your take on – I always wanted to ask you this, because you are in the OF world a little bit more intensely than I am. I'm in the OF world because I shoot models that purchase packages from me, take that content, and hand it to people, like your team, or other management companies, or maybe they just get down to work and go, “All right, cool. One day I shot eight looks or 10 looks with Joey.” I can use this for the whole month. Awesome, right? That's what I do.

I don't necessarily work with a management company per se. I work as an independent contractor. They'll be like, hey, unruly, is my management company. Okay, cool. Or indoor is my management company. Okay, cool. Give me a contact for your management company. Cool. I reach out to you. “Hey, man. Is there anything that you want to see her in? Cool, I need three bikinis, three lingerie, three lifestyle.” I’d go, “Hey, awesome. No problem. We'll make sure that I pitched to her three bikinis, three lingerie, three lifestyle. Thank you. Appreciate it. Is there anything specific you need? Portraits, headshots, whatever?” “No, no, man. Just give me whatever you got.”

Then I go back to her. I set all that up. I do everything, bro. I set up everything from hair and makeup to locations, the wardrobe, everything. I do it all. Then after that, I create that comfort zone, that lifestyle, enjoyment experience. Then I go to people and I sell them their package. It's a 1,000 for this, 1,700 for this, 2,200 for that. You know what I mean? That's it. The girls that are making 10 grand have no problem dropping 1,700 on a package, because they're going to get it. They're self-investing. Just like, if you go to buy shoes and a suit, and you're working in on Wall Street. You got to buy a suit to walk on Wall Street, you know I'm saying?

[1:08:19] JPE: A 100%.

[1:08:19] JP: They know that. I appreciate people like that. How do you work with people that if it's, “I don't have an Only Fans.” I mean, I have one so people can tag me. Not necessarily so I can post anything. I see a lot of now what's big is these photographers are collabing with these girls for free, because they're shooting three looks for them, keeping a look or two, and then putting it on their Only Fans and making money that way. How do you feel about that? Knowing that that is now a form of payment?

[1:08:53] JPE: Me personally, and this is just for myself. I don't sell content in that sense. I understand it, because of your work. At the end of the day, you took the photo, you edited the photo, that's your work that you want to sell to whoever's willing to buy that product. I think it depends on how much money you're making. If you're making enough to cover your expenses and the girl’s okay with it, the model is okay with it, and everything's aboveboard, I don't see why not.

[1:09:15] JP: Because a lot of the girls that reach out to me now, they're like, “Oh, well, you could just take my stuff and sell it.” I'm like, “I don't want it. That's a lot of extra work.”

[1:09:21] JPE: Yeah, it’s a lot of extra work.

[1:09:22] JP: Because now, hold on, first of all, girl, you can't even manage your own fucking thing. Now you want me to come, shoot you, style, wardrobe, edit, all this stuff, then take those images and go – that's my payment? What if they don't sell?

[1:09:36] JPE: I wouldn’t.

[1:09:36] JP: What if no one on my platform likes your look at all, and I shot you all day for three looks that don't sell?

[1:09:44] JPE: I've never had that happen to me. I've never done that.

[1:09:46] JP: I don’t even dabble in that.

[1:09:48] JPE: I wouldn't recommend it at all for photographers.

[1:09:50] JP: A lot of people do.

[1:09:53] JPE: I don’t see making money like that. If the girl's not going to make money selling her own content, how are you going to make money selling her content?

[1:09:59] JP: I've seen it taken as a form of payment. Literally, from people down here.

[1:10:04] JPE: I couldn't do it. I mean, if it's working for them, then more power to them.

[1:10:07] JP: Yeah, they must be crushing it.

[1:10:09] JPE: I did hear though Patreon more for older photographers. There's a photographer named Cam out in LA. He's super dope. He had 300,000 follower page that got taken down. He shoots mostly nude. What he was doing was that subscribing on Patreon, and then his followers can see the full picture on Patreon. That's how he made money bells before, Only Fans and everything. He's been doing it for 10 years.

[1:10:31] JP: Originally, I've created my only fans with the idea of being the yellow pages offer for models, right? I wanted to shoot the Sammy Joes, the Vera Sminovas, all different girls. Every single real I shoot, I want to keep one look, put it on my page for $1 a month, make it literally nothing. What is it, $3 the minimum? Literally nothing. But the whole purpose of it is to tag the models, so people can subscribe to me, see every single person I shoot and then go sub to them. That was the idea, originally. But when I found out how much work goes into doing that, I was like, “Nah, I'm good.”

[1:11:07] JPE: It's a business. If you treat it like a business, it'll pay you like at business. If you treat like a hobby, it's not going to pay at all.

[1:11:11] JP: That was the thing. I don't have the time to travel, drive, shoot.

[1:11:15] JPE: Edit.

[1:11:15] JP: Keep the relationships, edit, build. Then I got to do the OF?

[1:11:22] JPE: Not easy at all.

[1:11:23] JP: Not by myself.

[1:11:24] JPE: Do you believe in niches, like having a niche? Or, do you think it's more –

[1:11:31] JP: I think niches are genius for people who want to mess in the niche market. I think it's a very – I don't want to say it's a way of giving up. The reason I think of it like that is not everybody's – not everybody is hungry for 10 different styles of stuff. Not everybody wants to be just an overall good photographer, a great photographer. I think, some people only like lingerie, and they only want to shoot lingerie. You got to think of it like this. I want to go to the side of the world that we can understand better, right? Let's go into the OF realm. A niche photographer, if I was only a foot photographer, and I took pictures of girls’ feet –

[1:12:10] JPE: It's limited.

[1:12:12] JP: It's very limiting, but it's very profitable. There's a lot of people –

[1:12:16] JPE: Yeah, making money selling feet pictures.

[1:12:18] JP: That's why I feel about niches is like, you really have to be in something that you know is – what's a niche? Car. Is cars a niche?

[1:12:25] JPE: I think so.

[1:12:27] JP: Because if so, there's some phenomenal car photographers, I can't tell you the one that makes a lot of money. I couldn't name one. I don't know.

[1:12:33] JPE: I don't know anybody in that –

[1:12:34] JP: The only person that I know that does car stuff that makes decent money, he doesn't even only do car stuff though. That's the thing. That’s what I'm trying to say is that you better be in something that you've already got a foothold in. To just say right now, “All right, that's it. I'm only shooting bikinis.”

[1:12:50] JPE: Pinky toes.

[1:12:52] JP: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Pinky toes for the rest of my life.

[1:12:55] JPE: Pinky toes photographer. 

[1:12:55] JP: That's not a thing, though. I don't know if that's a thing. Not in photography maybe.

[1:13:00] JPE: Interesting.

[1:13:01] JP: Why? If I'm standing with you and you’re a model, and I can shoot just your hands, why wouldn't I shoot your whole body? I mean, I have other markets I could capitalize on right here. I don't know. What do you think about it?

[1:13:14] JPE: The only reason why I bring it up is because on TikTok. I don't know if how much you're on it, but everything is about having your niche. If you are an educator, if you are a photographer, if you’re whatever, and you stick within that niche and then you build your following based on that. If you want to break it down more and be like, “Oh, I'm a foot photographer, or I’m on lingerie.”

[1:13:32] JP: How many people are going to follow you?

[1:13:33] JPE: Exactly.

[1:13:34] JP: 1,000, 2,000, 20,000?

[1:13:36] JPE: It's also very limiting as sources of income, as a creative. If I were to only shoot in my studio, yeah, I can get some great work. After a while, you get bored. You’re limited by what you have around you. If I wouldn't take a model outside and/or to the beach, or to a different location, I would get bored, she would get bored. It's like, just very limiting. If you're trying to –

[1:13:56] JP: You're trying to take your creativity and shove it into a cup.

[1:13:59] JPE: Exactly.

[1:13:59] JP: You're taking a bucket full of creativity and you're putting inside of these collabs. I don’t know. I feel like, why? I can fill this table. You know what I mean? I'm hungry. I can fill the table. Why do we need to fill the cup?

[1:14:13] JPE: Yeah. I love that.

[1:14:15] JP: I don’t know. It's not for me. Might be for somebody, but not for me.

[1:14:18] JPE: Not for you. Bro, I want to say thank you so much for coming to the show.

[1:14:22] JP: Appreciate it, bro.

[1:14:24] JPE: Thank you for driving over here. Thank you for your insight, your wisdom, everything.

[1:14:27] JP: Always love.

[1:14:29] JPE: I love it all. Thank you.

[1:14:29] JP: I appreciate it. It's been cool, since watching you when you first came in to watching where you're at now, the growth is exponential. The friendship has always been there. You've always been kind. You've never had, not in front of me a bad word to say about anybody. You're so fucking dope, dude. You're killing it. Keep doing what you're doing. I love it. I want to be on episode fucking 100.

[1:14:52] JPE: Going to bring you back up to 20. Every 10 episodes, you'll be back.

[1:14:56] JP: That’s it.

[1:14:57] JPE: Every time.

[1:14:57] JP: [Inaudible 1:14:58]. 30? Is this 30?

[1:15:00] JPE: Episode 400 or something.

[1:15:01] JP: Just more drunk every time.

[1:15:01] JPE: Can you imagine? Oh, I got to thank you Marco for this whiskey. Or no, no. For Scotch.

[1:15:05] JP: Shout out Marco [inaudible 1:15:05] 14 on that Scotch.

[1:15:08] JPE: He started a trend.

[1:15:08] JP: Pretty classy.

[1:15:09] JPE: He started a trend. I’m going to keep it going.

[1:15:11] JP: You know what I'll do? You invite me back, I'll bring a – remember to one-up whatever bottle you have on there.

[1:15:16] JPE: Got you.

[1:15:17] JP: Serious. I got a bottle of Papi sitting at the house right now.

[1:15:18] JPE: Oh, good. Let’s do it. Just look at that.

[1:15:21] JP: No, I appreciate you, bro. I love you. I love what you're doing, seriously. Stay humble and stay classy and kill this shit, dude. Seriously, you're doing it right. I'm comfortable moving to Orlando, because I know that there's people like you that are down here that are crushing it. Fuck, yeah, dude. I love that shit. Seriously.

[1:15:34] JPE: [Inaudible 1:15:35].

[1:15:36] JP: Good shit, dude.

[END]