View From The Top
70. When a Man Feels Alone: The Male Quest for Belonging
“You’re trying to position yourself to fit in so that you feel accepted, but I don’t think that’s what belonging [means].” Have you ever felt like nobody "gets you"? You work strange hours, you have unique hobbies, you're alone at the top of the leadership food chain... how can you belong without having to try to fit in?
We pull back the curtain on our personal lives, revealing the paths we've walked—through high-society gatherings and family dynamics—to discover where we genuinely fit.
Key Takeaways:
- Fitting in vs. belonging
- What's really linked to our happiness?
- Why forcing ourselves to "like" something won't get us real friends
- Ways to foster a sense of belonging in your life
The journey toward genuine connection doesn't end with simply finding your tribe; it's also about fostering those relationships with openness and empathy. On today's episode, we unravel the intricacies of social acceptance and the courage it takes to stand firm in one's identity.
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Connect with Big A and Wally:
View From The Top Website: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/
The Climb Newsletter: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/climb
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Wally’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwallenbeck/
View From The Top Book by Aaron Walker: https://a.co/d/gU9EDBa
What Do I Want Challenge: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/whatdoiwantchallenge
“You’re trying to position yourself to fit in so that you feel accepted, but I don’t think that’s what belonging [means].” Have you ever felt like nobody "gets you"? You work strange hours, you have unique hobbies, you're alone at the top of the leadership food chain... how can you belong without having to try to fit in?
We pull back the curtain on our personal lives, revealing the paths we've walked—through high-society gatherings and family dynamics—to discover where we genuinely fit.
Key Takeaways:
- Fitting in vs. belonging
- What's really linked to our happiness?
- Why forcing ourselves to "like" something won't get us real friends
- Ways to foster a sense of belonging in your life
The journey toward genuine connection doesn't end with simply finding your tribe; it's also about fostering those relationships with openness and empathy. On today's episode, we unravel the intricacies of social acceptance and the courage it takes to stand firm in one's identity.
Iron Sharpens Iron Live Event Free Ticket Giveaway: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/win
Join our LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14378351/
Connect with Big A and Wally:
View From The Top Website: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/
The Climb Newsletter: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/climb
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Wally’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwallenbeck/
View From The Top Book by Aaron Walker: https://a.co/d/gU9EDBa
What Do I Want Challenge: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/whatdoiwantchallenge
My gosh, if they expected you to do that, then they really right. You don't really belong there, they were shallow friendships right?
Speaker 1:I wouldn't want to, but I didn't know that, though it was my point, this has taken decades to reveal itself to me.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, welcome to View from the Top podcast where we help growth minds and men who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountain to their very own view from the top. Hey, we're into February of 2024 already and, man, I am glad that you are listening in today. The thing we're going to cover today, I think all of us at some level struggle with some probably way more than most and that is do I belong or do I fit in? And I think a lot of us are trying to fit in, and you know what that feels like and you really really want to belong. So Big A and I are going to break this down today, share some of our own experiences as well as some things we've learned from others, and so let's get Big A in the studio and get rolling.
Speaker 1:Big A. You ready to roll, Wally? I'm ready to go, but I woke up in a little bit of a panic this morning. To be honest with you. First of all, the cold weather is not helping me any. Just so you know, we're going to start doing these. Cold is relative in Tennessee.
Speaker 2:I need to be in South.
Speaker 1:Florida somewhere. Yeah, I know you're Cold is relative. I know it is cold to me, but you know what dawned on me this morning when I woke up? Valentine's Day is next week, that's right. Oh my gosh, you got here faster this year than it did last year. Like I'm not prepared. I'm not even ready. I don't know about you, but this is mine and Robin's 45th year to celebrate Valentine's, right? Wow, we've been married 44 years. We celebrated one or two, maybe it's a 46th, I don't know. Maybe I miscounted. I don't have a clue what to do for her for Valentine's. Like you run out of stuff after 50 years while you run out of stuff to do.
Speaker 2:What have you done? What are some things you have done?
Speaker 1:Oh man, I've done all kinds of crazy stuff.
Speaker 2:You know we've taken trips.
Speaker 1:I've done flowers, I've done candy. We're trying to be mindful of our diet and we're trying to, you know, stay in good shape. So obviously you know the candy's probably out because we'll probably end up throwing it away. And flowers I get her flowers all the time, you know like I've stopped all the time and get her flowers and bringing home that's not so special. I tell you what I've done before with a friend of mine that I think was very meaningful. That I've never done myself is like do a video to Robin, like a friend of mine.
Speaker 1:I interviewed him for his wife's 20th wedding anniversary Nice and we spent 30 minutes and he told me their journey and how they got started and the things that she does and how meaningful he is. And he ran into limo and he put the video on an iPad and he said it was 30 minute ride to the restaurant. And he said that. He said he had something special for this year. And she opened the iPad, pushed play and he said she watched it and cried and cried and cried and at the end of it this guy's really wealthy, he's done very well in business. She said there's nothing you could have ever bought and it was more meaningful than that. And he says it was a home run and so I even thought about it some point.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'll save that for my 50th wedding anniversary or something, but I don't know, man, I'm like I don't know. I've bought her clothes. She's got one clothing store she really likes and I went up there and bought her gift certificates, picked out clothes, done all those things. What do you do? What do you do for Sonia?
Speaker 2:on Valentine's I set the stage. I set the bar pretty high on our very first our very first.
Speaker 2:Valentine's back in 1992. That was our first Valentine's and what I did was we were in college and what I did was I I went to the college campus and I created a word puzzle for her and I broke it up into 14 different puzzles. And we were on college campus, obviously, so we had like a college mail system or whatever, and so I sent one of those pieces of puzzle in a random order every day for 14 days leading up to Valentine's Day, and it basically spelled that this was like me asking here to essentially be my Valentine's Day and I said will you be my? Spelled out, will you be my Valentine. And it had my name because the the anyway matched up. But yeah, so I set the bar pretty high as far as like being romantic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're pretty romantic, little devil.
Speaker 2:We haven't done. It's been as ebbs and flows for us, right, just like you guys, right, like sometimes some years it's more simple and sometimes it's a little more extravagant, but I'm with you what I've learned, and even at Christmas time, you know recently, at Christmas and things like that, and and I think I think it comes down to finding things that are meaningful. And you know, the reality is, I think I'm not saying going by flowers and buying a card and getting getting candy is like wrong. I'm not saying that's wrong and maybe that works for for you guys listening today for this, this time around, but but I'd encourage you to put a little more thought into it. Right, that that's where the meaning comes in, the meaning, the meaning of things that are meaningful.
Speaker 2:So I don't want to reveal exactly maybe in the next episode I will, but I don't reveal exactly what I'm doing, just by chance that she might listen to this. But I'll give you a clue. So our local theater, our local movie theater, is on the 14th. They're they like different times throughout the year. They do like these nostalgic replays of videos, stuff you could never watch in the theater again, and so one of those is on the 14th. So she likes that movie, this older movie, so we're going to go watch that, I think, and and I'll probably get her some type of a, a, a make her a card or something like that, versus just buying one.
Speaker 1:And I think that's the key right there. I think it's if Robin knows I put time and energy into it.
Speaker 1:It really doesn't matter what it is, and you're like us and you know we're not super well off or anything, but they buy what they want through the year, right, they just go and get it, and so there's nothing really special. They've been waiting on for a year to get or anything like that, and then you do all these things, but there's nothing like the time when you invest that time, that energy, that puzzle. You put together a handwritten card, a video, whatever it is. I want to encourage those that are listening man, this year, just do something special, right, just take some time, put some energy in it, put some effort in it and you'll be good. So, speaking of, they want to feel like they're a big part of your life, obviously.
Speaker 2:Our wife, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is a great transition into today's episode.
Speaker 2:They want us to think that we're a big part of theirs. They want to feel that yeah both ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they want to feel that, and so the male quest for bonding and belonging is something that's really, really important, and so you know, I was thinking about this as we were preparing to talk about this, because we all want to belong, right, you want to feel like you're a part of something. Yeah, but there was a time in my life, quite honestly, a couple of times. Primarily once is when I was a teenager. I was in school and just to give a little backstory to that I really wanted to work.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to be in school, and you know I came from a pretty poor family, and so most of you that's been listening for any length of time realized that, and so I adopted a real strong work ethic at a really early age. So I went to summer school and night school for about 18 months, and so I missed a lot of my high school year by going to summer school and night school so I could get out early, but I was never really accepted among my peers because I wasn't there that much. I wasn't at school, like I would have a few classes, but then I would do night classes, summer classes and things like that so I could get out. You know what's funny is, I want a superlative my senior year and I didn't go.
Speaker 2:What is?
Speaker 1:that? How do you do it? You know it's a, you know I want best dressed, you want best rest, best tree. Yeah, because I dressed up every day for school, because I left there and went to work and so every day big a was, he was, yeah, he looked, he looked good. I'm just telling you, man, I look, I had the hair, the bg's, the berry gives look man, you stand out in high school.
Speaker 2:You're, yeah, buddy's friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then, in December, though, they voted me best dressed and I didn't even go, my senior year, I went and registered and I went and walked the line with them and graduated. No one is superlative. That was so cool, it was so funny, because Listen, wally, I don't want to hear another word about what I'm fixing to tell you. Okay, so, after today, this is episode. This is over, but Senior and our senior.
Speaker 1:You know I had good hair. I did. I'll see you some pictures. I had good hair when I was a senior but I had I bought a peach suit peach, it was peach colored suit and went to our senior dance and, and yeah, with Laurie Sanders and she had a matching peach dress. Big a was sport and listen. There was another time too that I want to tell you.
Speaker 1:I Didn't feel like when Robin and I first got married and we started running with different folks and hanging out In different crowds and kind of you know, finding our way, just like you did and Sonia and other people that listen to this episode. What I soon discovered was is I didn't like the high society, the kind of the Mixers, the social setting and you get together and you talk about Surface level stuff and I found out pretty quick that wasn't my thing. I'd rather have two or three couples over to the house and really go deep and really understand who they are and talk about meaningful things, rather than standing in a room, eat Norders and people drinking cocktails and Polish to the nines and they're putting on airs. You know that's the way I felt. Not everybody did that.
Speaker 1:That's the way I felt and I soon found out that I wasn't in an area that I felt like I belonged. And Robin felt equally Distant to a lot of those people. And then, finally, there was one last time that I I felt that way and it was because I didn't go to college. Dan Miller and Dave Ramsey and Ken Abraham and Jeff Moseley and some of those guys that I was in the Eagles group with Walked me through this, took years to walk me through this, but I didn't have any higher education and I felt like that. I really didn't measure up Academically and I look back and reflect on some of those mixers or high society things that we're talking about and maybe I felt less than I didn't feel like there were some of those things that I could talk about and I just didn't feel like I belonged in those social settings. So what about you, wally? Has there ever been a time for you that you didn't feel like you belonged, wherever you were at?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's funny. You mentioned high school. I even think Before that in some ways. Like I was that working kid too. You know I was forked 12 years I was eight years old or 10 years old with a paper route and and as soon as I could ride my bike in the summers you know downtown man, and I think at 12 you get your working papers.
Speaker 2:At 14, I think, in New York and at 12 I was trying to mow lawns and stuff and and did all kinds of stuff, fast food and worked at ice cream shop, clean ice cream Sheen's late at night, like. Like it wasn't about making money to have money, it was about, man, if I wanted to do things or have a life, my parents didn't have anything. So it was, it was kind of up to me and plus I enjoyed the challenge of it. Right, kind of like you did, you didn't, you didn't go to school because you enjoy doing something different. You found the challenge of work and of Accomplishing something different, and so I was kind of that way too definitely grew up.
Speaker 2:I think I didn't fit the mold of Growing up a blue collar, if you will like that. My parents provided a great, a great space for me to grow up, but I knew that I didn't want to. You know, live a blue collar life in terms of, you know, working in the two factories that were in our town. I went to college for a couple of years, but I really wasn't my stick either.
Speaker 1:Right, it's a side note and we're going to get derailed here, but who kind of got you out of that mindset? Like if that was the thing there, a couple of factories you go to work in and work there till you retire? Like were you around, a mentor or an influencer or you just on your own? You're just like you just decided this is not what I want. Yeah, I was just on my own.
Speaker 2:Man, I wish I had had a mentor back then. Yeah, me too. Yeah, what I mean cool, but anyway. No, pretty much was on my own and I, you know I was. I was a believer. I accepted Christ when I was eight, at a local Christian camp there that we went to during the summers, and so I firmly believe that God had a hand in. You know, I was making my plans says in Proverbs 19 619 that man makes his plans and God directs his steps, and so I believe that. So I was making my plans and because I was a believer that God directed my steps and he was, I don't want to use the word watching out for me because really it's just a belief For me, because really it's about, you know, him getting the glory at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:So you know it's funny. I went to the gym this morning you know reaching this little basket every day and there's a. There's a verse. That was the verse I got 16, 9 seriously. That's it. That's the verse I got today. I've got it in my jacket pocket. I'll show it to you.
Speaker 2:That's so cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so.
Speaker 2:That was yeah, yeah so I think, I think I try to do a good job of in high school. You know, I wasn't the. I Said at the nerd table in high school I didn't sit with the jocks and the cool kids. Did you want to? Oh yeah, oh man for sure. I wanted to why because it carried some sense of prestige right. I mean, if I thought it did, I thought it would you know.
Speaker 2:It's like it's like getting a college education. I think there's value in that. But all I could hear about going to college was like, oh, you need that piece of paper and, and that bothered me. Like somewhere inside of me it was like how is a piece of paper going to determine the future that I want to create? Like how is that possible? And Not that it couldn't have created opportunities I'm sure it would have. I'm sure it does for lots of people, but I know, for me. I, I tried to fit into that and I just I didn't do well. So what about? Let's?
Speaker 1:go back to the jock table for a second. Yeah, like you go by them and all the cheerleaders are hanging out there and the football players and you're over here with the nerd table.
Speaker 2:I was with the smart kids and didn't belong there either. I should they take it back like it's interesting.
Speaker 1:You should have had your own table.
Speaker 2:It sounds like okay, but listen, I guess you're right in some ways. Like, like, I wasn't at the jock in the cool kid table Because I was wearing the. You know, going back, I don't know, sears right had these. I was wearing the winner two series shoes, sneakers, called sneakers, back in New York and they had velcro on them and that's what mom and dad could afford. And you know, we had pants that had the elastic belt On them, you know, and like, the cool kids weren't wearing those. I'll tell you that right now. So I was at the nerd in the the smarty pants table and I say I didn't belong, but you know, the reality was I had, I had better relationships and more meaningful relationships and conversations With that group of people that I ever could have had at the other table.
Speaker 1:You certainly didn't know that at the time.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't, I couldn't have labeled that until I was and then go to college and get out in the work life that we all do. You know we aspire. You know I remember going to work the first few times and it's pretty, I mean, for me, right, you're scoping things out. You're looking like, okay, where am I gonna sit? Who am I gonna talk to? Where am I gonna? You know, who am I gonna buddy up to? Who am I not? Why? Cause you're trying to like, position yourself to fit in right so that you feel accepted. But I don't think that's what belonging. You know, it never gave me a piece. I never had like a rest, a piece in my soul I found my spot.
Speaker 2:Never in those situations.
Speaker 1:You know, when you think about it, belonging really is a fundamental human need. I mean, we need that. I don't care if you're six, 16 or 66, you know, fundamentally it's a human need and really, when you think about it, it's closely linked to our happiness. And that's unfortunate sometimes because you're like, don't let your circumstances dictate your happiness, but as a human you can't help it. Sometimes there's a lot of mental health issues around this as well, for people that don't feel like they belong. And then really, your overall wellbeing. We've got to discover what that is for us and where we belong, and that's the reason we wanted to talk about this very topic today. Well, I think it's pretty sad when you feel like you don't have a community or you don't have somewhere or somebody that you feel important, you don't feel needed, like that's a really hollow place, and we deal with a lot of people that, professionally, have done really well financially, like they're fat, right, they got a lot of cash, but they don't feel like they belong.
Speaker 2:They just feel like you don't feel like they're accepted anywhere.
Speaker 1:No, they don't. Nobody understands them. They don't know where they're at. Nobody is accepting them. Fundamentally, though, there's three or four different things that make us feel this way. One of them is when we feel misunderstood or unseen. They didn't understand what I meant, or they don't even hear me, like we make it a point. I went to a breakfast a couple of months ago, right before Christmas today, a couple of days before, I think, two days before Christmas and there was probably 40, 50 people in the room, and there was one guy that was off to his self, and I noticed him from the time I got there. He was sitting by his self. When I got there, 30 minutes in, everybody had paired up.
Speaker 1:You know, how it goes. You pair up with somebody and you're talking, and this guy was still by his self and then he stood up and he was standing over by the fire. They had a fire going and I said, hey, man, come over and hang with us and it looked like it was the first time anybody had ever invited him into a conversation, right? He felt unseen, right, and I'll be honest with you, he was a little bit awkward he was, but the more he hung, the more he stood there, the more he would enter into the conversation. What about you, wally? What's most disappointing to you as an individual? Is it being misunderstood or is it people don't see you? Maybe in certain circumstances?
Speaker 2:I think my personality I'm more inclined to say that when I feel misunderstood versus being seen. I think just for me personally, there's an element to both. But if I had to choose one over the other because sometimes, yeah, I want to be seen for sure you and I have talked about that I've actually had some. Really maybe we'll do a podcast episode about that someday. But Big A, some months ago there was something that we had. It was an event we had been involved together with and man, I put a lot of time and energy into that and, being part of the organization that I'm in and after the event I kind of felt like I wasn't seen right. We actually had a conversation and you're like no, I think it's because you need to be seen. And I'm like, no, no, I don't think that's it. And then about a month ago I came back to you and I'm like, okay, I think you're right, so that's part of it for sure.
Speaker 2:But I think the understood part for me has the most deep-seated meaning in terms of like belonging, that if I'm misunderstood, then it's really disappointing to me. I just people don't get me and that's. I think that's where a lot of my barrier is, like, because I can try to fit in and be seen. If I try to fit in, I can be seen. But am I really understood for who I am? No, no, like I think what. I don't know if we're gonna talk about this later or not, but I was trying to think of, like, maybe we can talk about this at the end as we wrap up, like, but what are some ingredients that make up? What are some criteria that you could say okay for myself. I'm trying to fit in or I'm actually working to belong. What are those things that helped me realize that I belong or that I am actually trying to fit in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're gonna unpack one of them right now. We're not gonna wait till another episode. So what you just said was a month later. Yeah, I do need to be seen some. Were you trying to suppress that all these times? You just didn't want to admit to yourself and to others that you desire to be seen.
Speaker 1:I think so I mean, if I'm honest, I think we have to be honest. I think that's the whole reason behind what we're doing this with, and if you're listening to us today, I think you've got to answer some of these questions and be honest. A lot of the times, it's more noble to say the other thing rather than saying I've got a blind spot and this is something that I don't want to be this way. But the truth is that's the way I am, and I thought about that today in a particular situation that I'm going through right now, and I was here in my office alone and I was unpacking that in my head and I said the truth is this, right, I didn't want to confront that. I didn't really want to confront what the truth was. I was like, no, I'm bigger than that, I'm big A right, I've been around for a while and that's not really what I need. And then I thought you know what I do need, that, like I really do. That's what I desire. It's not right and I have to admit that.
Speaker 1:But first and foremost, I've got to be honest. I've got to say to myself it is. You know, that's another value of having people around you that are unbiased, trusted advisors on a weekly basis is that they see the propensity of your life unfold week after week, month after month, year after year, and they can go back and point it out. That's why it's called blind spots. We can't see it, and when we're around people all the time, it's easy on one offs to let that go. Nobody recognizes it. But when you're around somebody continually, you like seeing a pattern, just as I shared with you and I gave three other examples.
Speaker 2:I've been around you seven years. It took seven years for that situation right To expose itself. And if it had just exposed itself and it went off, you never would have seen it, I would have never seen it. No, you never could have challenged me on that, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so well, what do we do in other situations? And I know oftentimes we're talking to business people about things that were unseen or misunderstood, like in the business world that you're in or the church that you go to. Like how do you handle that? Is there a platform that we're able to go to? Is there somebody? Like I'll be honest with you, I think I've been as misunderstood in my church as anywhere in the business world. You know it's because my personality is very forward they call Big A the hammer. Sometimes it's like, hey, you're a hammer, you know, and I'm like well, I'm just passionate about that topic.
Speaker 2:It's funny, I gotta stop real quick for a second you can be misunderstood. Hold your thoughts. You're talking about me and misunderstood. Did you know that, like my list of opening statements, these are some of the statements that I use with you? Let's get Big A into the studio today. Big A, you ready to bring the hammer down? You?
Speaker 1:ready to ruffle some feathers.
Speaker 2:You ready to move the dial kicking into high gear? Get the fire suit on.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm passionate about what I do and I'm very forward. But people Robin comes to my defense a lot, to people that really don't know me well, and she always defends me. She said you know what, when you get around him and you really know him, you really know his heart. He's really compassionate, he's really loving, he can show empathy, but outwardly I'm very focused, I'm very forward, I'm very blunt. I don't candy coat things right. We can be misunderstood. That's another valuable reason to be around people on an ongoing basis, not just these one offs. That's the reason I told you these mixers and these high society social things. They don't know me.
Speaker 2:There's a guy. There's a guy we both know that I'm connected to through family and we were at a family event Sonia's birthday, 50th birthday a couple of years ago, and you were there and he was there and he had read your book and I had had conversations with him before and he was like he always kind of had this little bit of like eh, you know, big A, I don't know kind of thing, right, and I watched you guys sit there for what, an hour, hour and a half, whatever. You sat there talking Like. Two days later I get this text from him and he's like Big A is nothing like. I thought he was Like, I thought all of that was like some facade. I thought all thought that was some kind of. But so when I sat down I tried to fit in essentially, but by the end I realized that no, like I could belong in a friendship like this. And he's since communicated with you multiple times. You guys have gone on to lunch together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a great guy and that's my whole point is that we want to belong but we're not spending the time, we're not doing the reps to get in front of those people, to get to know them intimately. What about when we're struggling to connect with others and the experiences that they have, their interest in different things, that we just are not interested, like we don't even feel, like no, I don't even wanna do that?
Speaker 2:What are some of those things for you? What are some of the things that you don't?
Speaker 1:Well for me, like, for an example, all of my buddies are in great shape physically, but they are much better shape than I am. I mean, these guys have really paid attention to their health. They do snow skiing, they do water skiing, they do mountain climbing, they do off-road bike riding, they run marathons. I don't do any of that. I don't do any of that stuff and it's like it's not really of interest. I've never been on snow skis, I've never water skied, I've never done any mountain biking. My best friend just climbed Mount Kilimanjaro a few years ago. It took him seven or eight days to summit that thing and I'm like we're great friends, but after a period of time it took me years. I had to just accept the fact that if they're gonna be around me, it's gonna be cause of a kindred spirit. We have a lot of other things that we enjoy, but I can't do all those things because they expect me to do those things right, or you think it's probably that they don't expect it.
Speaker 1:You think you need to. No, they don't, but I did, I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you think you need to fit in to be in relationship?
Speaker 1:No, and I found out I didn't have to.
Speaker 2:My gosh, if they expected you to do that, then they really.
Speaker 1:You don't really belong there anyway, you're a shallow friendship, right? I wouldn't want to, but I didn't know that, though it was my point. This has taken decades to reveal itself to me. It's like no man. They love me for who I am. They love me for what I'm involved in, right? I felt like I need to start snow skiing, I need to start water skiing, hiking, running marathons, and I'm like screw it.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna do all those things. Well, that would have been you trying to fit in?
Speaker 1:honestly, yes, and so I had to come to the realization. That's what I'm trying to convey to the audience today is evaluate what the core values are, the principles, what it is that you're really looking for. Don't feel like that you have to do those things in order to belong. Well, what about you, wally? Have you ever wanted to be around somebody and they had experiences or interests or things like that that, yeah, you just didn't care for, so you didn't pursue it.
Speaker 2:I think I'm just learning that, frankly, if I'm really being transparent about it, I've met a stage in my life where I know I've shared with you and my mastermind group and shared with my family. That was all here over Christmas, which we all got the flu, which really sucked, but we still had some time together and some really meaningful time together my three daughters and three son-in-laws and it was great. But I had an opportunity to share with them just what I've been learning this past six months, especially about the journey I've been on once after selling my business in 19, and then all that goes with that, not just the selling the business part, but understanding my purpose and identity and how my daughters got married in that period of time. And it's a little hot, but I got to share what I've been learning about understanding really who I am as a person and being okay with that.
Speaker 2:And that's really hard sometimes because there are situations where I want to fit in with my neighbors, that I want to fit in with a few guys at church, and so you're tempted, like you feel it, you're like, well, I could do that or show up this way. It's not that those things are bad and of themselves Like you have to invest time with people to build relationships and that takes time and so you don't really know. So I don't wanna misrepresent that making time and investing time with people is always trying to fit in, but you know.
Speaker 2:You know in your spirit what your motive is right, you do, you do. You mentioned something that was just so true, like so factual. If we are really give ourselves the space mentally to tell ourselves the truth and be willing to hear it from ourselves, that's so powerful.
Speaker 1:Two years ago I interviewed a guy at our church to be a deacon, our church, and during the interview, maybe 20 minutes in, I said why do you wanna be a deacon? He said I really don't wanna be a deacon. He said I'm only doing this because if that's what it takes to get in the inner circle, to get closer to the pastor, I'm willing to do it and I'm like well, this interview's over because you're not gonna be a deacon. If that is your spirit and your motivation, see, it's to your point. That was his motivation. He had a different slant. There was a motivation.
Speaker 1:Well, I've been thinking a lot about this also because I got a buddy of mine that came to me one time and he said I've got a son that really enjoys music. And he said I'm athletic, there's not a musical bone in my body. And his other son was an all-star football player, all-star basketball player, rand Track, mr Athlee, you know all that. He identified with him. And the other son was musical and he was, you know, in academics. And so he came down when I was in the pawn shop business and he bought a guitar and I said what are you doing with the guitar? He goes I'm gonna learn to play the guitar. I said what he goes? I'm gonna learn to play the guitar. I said what are you talking about? There's not a musical bone in your body. He said no, but I want a relationship with my son and I'm willing to learn so that I can have a relationship with my son. See, he didn't belong in that space, but he was willing to do what it took to be in his children's life, and so I think sometimes, in order for us to belong, I've encouraged clients. Today I say, hey, go in your kid's bedroom and lay across their bed and ask them a question to help you solve something at work, when you don't even need the answer, but it makes them feel like they are apart, it makes them feel like they're important and I think that that's what we've got to do with our family situation. But we certainly don't need to alter the things that we're trying to do to fit in when it's not somewhere that you naturally fit. So I think there's exceptions to this rule when we belong the same way with your wife and I was thinking about Robin and some of the things that Robin is interested in.
Speaker 1:Quite honestly, I'm not interested in. Like, she's really into sewing and quilting and those things. She's done that her whole marriage and it looks like a quilt factory in her sewing room. She could sew, get all the equipment, all that kind of stuff, and periodically she'll say, hey, come take a look at this quilt. Well, I'll go up and look at it and I start asking her questions where'd you get the fabric? How long did it take you to make it? Do you enjoy this one? What are you gonna do with it? Cause she gives them away, and I'm like God if people only knew what those things cost.
Speaker 1:She's giving away. She's giving away, just I don't know, dozens and dozens and dozens of those, and I get involved in her life because she wants me to belong, she wants me to be a part, she wants me to be. So I think that sometimes there's kind of a twofold thing here. We've got to do some things within our family because we can't pick our family right. You can pick your friends, but you can't pick your family. I think there's some things that we've got to do. Well, what about when you're feeling that your own experiences or your interests are not valued or shared by anyone else? Like, what do you do then? It's like some of the things that you enjoy doing? What if you feel like those experiences are not important or they're not valued by anybody? I think the-.
Speaker 1:You change More experience.
Speaker 2:I think the more experience I have is you recognize they're not the right people.
Speaker 1:They're not your people.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, like that's what it comes down. That's hard, that's so hard. Like you just mentioned about your family no, you can't pick your family. I mean, you chose your wife and you're committed there, and I think that's slightly a little different of fitting in and belonging, that's what I'm saying. You work at belonging together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and your family, I think, as a leader in our homes, as men, I think our primary response really around belonging and fitting in is not for ourselves. I think it's really about our wives, like you mentioned with Robin, and our children. If your child is trying to fit in to your family, you're in trouble, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're in deep trouble, big trouble, and I fear that there's a lot of families out there. There's a lot of guys right now that are not loving and serving and leading their families well, and they've got kids that are trying to fit in when they really need to focus on helping them belong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, that's huge. If you don't get anything else out of this episode, rewind it and listen to what Wally just said, because it is so important that those kids don't have to measure up to your standards in order to belong to the family. Walk along that journey with them. Man, that was solid. Go, Wally. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2:I think, when it comes to like business, and it comes to personal interests, hobbies and things like that, even potentially church, that's different. Yeah, I think you've got to really evaluate, first of all, yourself. What's your motivation, and is it that you're not showing up correctly, or is it you're trying to be somebody that you're not? There's a? I think there's a. I think I wrote this down somewhere Fitting. Here's a quote I pulled out. I don't remember who said it. It wasn't attributed to anybody, but fitting in is about assessing a situation and becoming who you need to be to be accepted. Belonging, on the other hand, doesn't require us to change who we are. It requires us to be who we are.
Speaker 1:That's so good. That's so good, that is so good. How many times do we hear, though, on an ongoing basis, when we have applicants to join Iron Sharp and Xirons hey, nobody gets me. Nobody really understands it. The reason is is because you've got a different set of circumstances. You've got a different life experience. You've got a different filter by which you've lived your life. You've got circumstances in your life that has created problematic areas in your relationships or your finances.
Speaker 1:Yet we pull back, we become isolated because no one gets us, and we're trying to share with people this very concept of you belong. You've just got to figure out exactly where that's at. This is the very place that I say all the time isolation is the enemy of excellence, and if you really want to excel in life, you've got to be in community. God created us to be in community, and I want to encourage you don't isolate. There are people that get you. You've just got to unfold this and figure out a way that you can plug in. But I love that quote that you just read. That's really, really good. I think when we do isolate and we pull back and nobody gets us, it's a perfect storm. It's a place that you're going to get in trouble eventually and I did decades ago I withdrew. I didn't have these close friendships around me, I kind of stiff-armed people and had my own schedule and I had a little bit of resources, and that mindset can really throw you off track, and so I want to encourage you. People do and can love you enough to work with you through those situations.
Speaker 1:What about when there's a lack of shared values? This is something that we talk about quite often, even in ISI. You know there's five core values that we have, and when we're interviewing prospective applicants for ISI, we always want to see how their core values are similar. They don't have to be exactly, we don't expect them to be exactly, but every single time there's somebody that's got a 180 difference of opinion or thoughts related to a core value, rarely does it work out, because we want to be around people that have a set of core values that they're living life by, that they're using it as a filter, as a system. We want to be surrounded by people that have similar not exactly, but similar core values. Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2:about this. Yeah, yeah, sure, I agree with you. Those people that we want our core values to pretty much be in alignment with other people, not contradictory. I've seen lately, actually, a couple of guys I've talked to have been like, well, I don't really think that guy's a good dude because he doesn't believe exactly like I do, like he has a different belief system, and I think, at the end of the day, there's certain advice that I'm not going to take, certain advice that I'm not going to take from someone who's not directly aligned, say, on my spiritual beliefs, but that advice is typically going to be quarantined to spiritual wisdom.
Speaker 2:I might listen because I might learn some things or I might be able to be challenged to think differently about something, but I know who I am and what I believe and believe that that's correct. That doesn't mean that that person can't be aligned with you still, and what I mean by that is just because they're not 100% on everything. I don't want everybody around me. I don't have to belong. If I belong to a group of people that everyone believes and agrees with everything I say in the same exact fashion, that's a cult. Yeah, right, it's not peers. Right, that's not peers. And so I think, as men, we need to be careful that, well, I'm not going to get with that group or get with this group, because this one thing, this one person in there may not be exactly aligned on every single thing like I am. Well, you're just going to go back into isolation because you think that everybody has to agree with you.
Speaker 1:That's not belonging. I don't believe in that you can belong.
Speaker 2:You can belong where not everything's exactly the same. It doesn't have to be exactly the same.
Speaker 1:No, I don't want it exactly the same, because one of the most valuable attributes towards a mastermind is varying perspectives. It's not good, thank you, but I think that what is important is there's fundamentally some things I'll give you an example Like if you were to join Iron Sharpens, iron Mastermind, and your only focus was to make money and you didn't care how you got it. You want to make a million dollars and it just doesn't matter. Well, that's not going to align with our core values of integrity and honesty and high character and it's just not going to align. Like we're not going to see out of right. You may have some nuggets to offer me related to something else, but that's going to be a deal killer for me, right? That's what I'm talking about. Just fundamental life principles that are similar in nature, that we're kind of rowing the same boat. You can be rowing it with a different paddle, that's okay, but I'm just saying fundamentally, if there's things that are 180 degrees in opposition to things that don't coincide with my values in life and principles in life related to character and integrity and things like that, then we're probably not going to belong to the same organization together. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:What about feeling pressure to conform? I remember, as my kids were growing up, they would come home and they'd say, dad, such and such got this, or such and such got this new car, and what kind of car am I going to get when I'm 16? Or you know, they felt like, well, hey, your dad, they're going to a party and they're going to be out till two in the morning and I'm like you know what You're not doing? Oh, my girlfriend, you're doing it. Dad, my girlfriends are. You know, I don't care what your girlfriends are doing, they're not living in this house, they're not being raised by us. And oftentimes those kids can have that peer pressure and they can even adults. It's the same way, and I hear this with adults.
Speaker 1:I'm like, hey man, why did you go to that? And you drink yourself into an oblivion. All my buddies were, and I didn't want to be laughed at or mocked, or they went out to the strip club, you know, and it's like I don't normally do that, but I didn't want to be that guy and I'm like you got to have values and try to fit in, and I'm like I used to go on a golf trip with 16 guys and we go to Florida every year. We did this for a number of years. I would always drive Never would I not drive. And they're like why don't you do that? I said because I don't want to be caught in a situation that I'm not comfortable with and I don't want to go to places because I'm riding with somebody else, you know, and you're not going to pressure me. And thank God I wasn't one that easily conformed. I've got a good friend.
Speaker 1:Bob Warren was my mentor and he taught me to stand alone. He said when you have strong convictions about something, I want you to really let your conscience be your guide, stand on your principles, really go to the word, which is God's word, the Bible, and run it through those 66 books and see if it's something that you're willing to stand alone on. And I think it was just great advice to me not to conform, to be accepted. So what are some ways that we can foster a sense of belonging? When I start thinking about this first and foremost, even in view from the top, when we talk a lot about the things that are most important, it's connecting and engaging. These are some of the ways that we're going to foster a sense of belonging. First of all, you got to connect.
Speaker 1:You got to get around the people you don't know you got to show up and I tell stories, and I've told one a year ago at the live event about how Robin and I, you know, we bought tickets to the Titans when they first came. We bought PSLs and we would go to the games. We can go to all of them, we go to some of them, but it was like this is not really doing it for me, and then we would start tailgating a little bit with some friends and it was like well, that was kind of fun, and then we started following them on the road and then we started going to the play this is when the Titans were good, by the way and we would follow them on the road and you know, coming up, there will be a game.
Speaker 1:Maybe it'll have three billion dollars, but right now it would be. But you know, then we went to the Super Bowl and that was like the ultimate. You know the Rams beat us. You know we were three feet short of the goal. But my point is is, once we engaged, once I really got in, I connected right, we bought tickets, but then when I engaged, it made all the difference in the world.
Speaker 1:So I want to tell you, guys that are listening out there right now, you may be on the peripheral somewhere in some organization, but man, you're going to really get involved. It's like your local church. You know people say I don't like that church. Well, what do you do there? Well, I tend I said well, are you serving or are you doing? No, not really. Do you connect group? No, not really. You doing a D group? No, I'm really not. And you going to the men's event? No, hadn't gotten any of those. Well, no wonder you're not connected with anybody. You're not engaging, you're not doing anything. Well, you talk a lot about being vulnerable. You know, open up, be vulnerable. How do you see that helping us to really finding out where we belong?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, first of all, we have to make sure we're in the right place for that. You know, a lot of times what happens is, I think, we try to fit in and then we try to be vulnerable in a situation where we're trying to fit in and we get hurt because it's not the environment for us to be vulnerable, and so we get hurt. We do it a couple of times and then we get calloused, then we get fearful and then where that guy just talked about it, you know, moves around, he's isolated, he's removed himself and he just I'm not going to get hurt again or I'm not going to do that, I'm going to do this. It's a slippery slope, man, and there are so many guys I guarantee there's guys listening right now that either been there or and they've come out of it, or you're there right now, man, and you know it is not going to serve you. Well, if you believe that lie.
Speaker 1:But the point is, and you get hurt one time, you get hurt one time, then you use that as a filter for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1:But I think if you're going to belong at some point, you've got to be vulnerable. You've got to be transparent, otherwise they can't help you. Otherwise they're giving you advice and they don't have all the context and the data to help you make the decisions. They're going to give you wrong advice if they don't have the information. And then, finally, I think you've got to get involved emotionally.
Speaker 1:This is a place that I struggle, quite honestly. I have my guard up a lot of really protecting emotions. I think that we got to work on understanding and managing our emotions and it's not something that I've been real forthcoming with over the years. You know I've taken the alpha male perspective. You know, be tough, don't cry. You know I remember my dad looking at me thinking. You know I was thinking he thinks I'm going to cry and I'm going to show him I'm not going to cry, I'm not going to be emotional, because I want my dad to be proud of me and it doesn't matter how bad I got hurt, no matter how bad the news was, like I was trying not to be emotional and we've got to manage those things. We've got to really figure out what it is that we need to do in the appropriate environment to share your emotions.
Speaker 1:And then the other thing that I haven't scored well on in the past is empathy. I think we've got to be more empathetic, we've got to really consider others' feelings, their perspective, and we've got to show empathy. This has been I'm just telling you straight up, this has been a challenge for me for 40, 50 years is being willing to be more empathetic and be patient and listen, because I'm that hard charger I'm like, oh, you got to do it and this is the way you do it. You know it's like well, maybe not, maybe there are circumstances that disallow that from happening. And so I think, just showing some of those empathetic concerns and considerations for other people's feelings and their perspectives, wally, as we end up today, anything final that you want to add to these guys that are trying to belong to a certain environment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, my wife, you know it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman in this, this, this situation of belonging, you know we were men, so we were. We're focused on finding groups of guys specifically that we can belong to, that have shared values and alignment, that that we can, you know, live with and alongside of, and give back to and receive from, and all of that in a way that you just can't get from a mixed environment. But my wife, she, she, a couple of years ago, was going through this process of working really hard to fit in and it was a struggle. It was a struggle and I remember she had connected with a group of of of women and I remember that she had been, I think she had gone a couple of times and I remember her coming back one time and saying, I think, I think I found out like where I belong, like these are my people, and I just thought that was so powerful. But I look back and I think of how scared she was to put her, her neck out there and I think you know we think about the guys.
Speaker 2:As you're listening right now, that my encouragement to you, my challenge to you don't let fear get in the way. Don't let a previous hurt get in the way of you stepping out and continuing to find that community, that group of people that you can really engage with and that you can. You can find and discover that you belong so you can become even more vulnerable and learn and give back. And it's a it's a great place. It's not perfect. There's still you know Bob talks about wherever something about there's work being done, there's ox crap. That's true, it's always going to be perfect.
Speaker 2:You got to be okay with that. But, man, the joy and the happiness and the peace that you can get and you receive and be part of, that's really, really a great feeling and sense of belonging.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, we end up today. Just give some thought to man. You got to recognize and address the fact that you could be in isolation. I don't know if you are or not, but you've really got to be honest and admit if you are in isolation. Then you got to go out and look for an alignment with people with similar shared values. Don't have to be exact and we've really hit that hard during this episode. They don't have to be exact, but you want to be around the pack of people that you can share your core values. There's some semblance of order to those. I want you to really start thinking about embracing vulnerability and engagement in the right settings and then don't do like I did and not show empathy for others, but really go out there and think how can I be more empathetic to others? And I think if you do all these traits and activities, it'll help you get more involved and it can give you a sense of belonging. We want you to have that sense of belonging so that you too, can enjoy that view from the top.
Speaker 2:Thank you all so much for listening in today. I hope you enjoyed that. I hope you were able to take something away from it that you're going to go apply yourself and, man, stop trying to fit in, get over your fear and find some place that you can belong. On your journey of doing that, we have talked many times in this podcast View from the Top podcast about the Iron Sharpen's Iron Mastermind. I just want to encourage you right now go check it out. Go to viewfromthetopcom and it's right there.
Speaker 2:Isi Mastermind is pretty easy, right in the top menu bar. Go there, learn more about the ISI Mastermind. There's events in there. We actually just expanded from a couple events here in Nashville doing some reaching out a little more nationally on some events. I encourage you to check that out. You can see that they're there, you can learn more about them and they are great places to find out if ISI Mastermind could be a place where you could belong. We invite you to come check it out and see if it is a place that you can belong. Hope to see you there and until next time, have a great week.