View From The Top
77. THE FORGE: Can This Lawyer Convert His High Paying Job into a Scalable Business?
"While I have loved the creative part of what I do professionally, it has not created the freedom that I desire [with] my time." David sets off a transformation that many dream of but few dare to pursue–can he really convert his high paying job to a business? Is this the best way forward for him and his family?
Many entrepreneurs wonder the same thing. We're peeling back the layers of such a transformative journey, examining the intersection of faith, ambition, and freedom in putting Christ first in business and relationships. Our hosts share the tools they've used to keep the spark alive, offering insights and inspiration for nurturing the most precious relationships in our lives.
Key Takeaways:
- What is your definition of "freedom"?
- How having a healthy marriage plays a huge role in having the best career
- The best way to transition from high paying job to business
David is in the midst of counseling and working on growing his relationship with his wife, while billing clients hourly for his law expertise. How do you automate your own mind?
Join our conversation on our LinkedIn Group: www.viewfromthetop.com/group
Connect with Anthony Witt:
witthouse.com or anthonywitt.com
Anthony Witt is a professional licensed counselor and a business owner with a deep understanding of how entrepreneurship impacts personal health and those around them. Having bought, sold, and started multiple businesses, he has gained valuable
experience at the intersection of personal health and business. His belief that "a healthy business owner creates a healthy business" underscores his approach to helping entrepreneurs thrive.
Connect with Bret Barnhart:
Bret’s Calendar Link: https://calendly.com/barnhartexcavating/view-from-the-top
Bret’s Linkedin
Bret Barnhart, Jr. is the fourth generation in his family to start his own excavation company. He began Bret Barnhart Excavating (BBE) in 2002 with $1,500, a single backhoe and truck, and a trailer. Since then, BBE has grown to an entire fleet of heavy machinery and trucks, averages just under 20 employees, and grosses $4mil annually.
Connect with Big A and Wally:
View From The Top Website: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/
The Climb Newsletter: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/climb
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Wally’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwallenbeck/
"While I have loved the creative part of what I do professionally, it has not created the freedom that I desire [with] my time." David sets off a transformation that many dream of but few dare to pursue–can he really convert his high paying job to a business? Is this the best way forward for him and his family?
Many entrepreneurs wonder the same thing. We're peeling back the layers of such a transformative journey, examining the intersection of faith, ambition, and freedom in putting Christ first in business and relationships. Our hosts share the tools they've used to keep the spark alive, offering insights and inspiration for nurturing the most precious relationships in our lives.
Key Takeaways:
- What is your definition of "freedom"?
- How having a healthy marriage plays a huge role in having the best career
- The best way to transition from high paying job to business
David is in the midst of counseling and working on growing his relationship with his wife, while billing clients hourly for his law expertise. How do you automate your own mind?
Join our conversation on our LinkedIn Group: www.viewfromthetop.com/group
Connect with Anthony Witt:
witthouse.com or anthonywitt.com
Anthony Witt is a professional licensed counselor and a business owner with a deep understanding of how entrepreneurship impacts personal health and those around them. Having bought, sold, and started multiple businesses, he has gained valuable
experience at the intersection of personal health and business. His belief that "a healthy business owner creates a healthy business" underscores his approach to helping entrepreneurs thrive.
Connect with Bret Barnhart:
Bret’s Calendar Link: https://calendly.com/barnhartexcavating/view-from-the-top
Bret’s Linkedin
Bret Barnhart, Jr. is the fourth generation in his family to start his own excavation company. He began Bret Barnhart Excavating (BBE) in 2002 with $1,500, a single backhoe and truck, and a trailer. Since then, BBE has grown to an entire fleet of heavy machinery and trucks, averages just under 20 employees, and grosses $4mil annually.
Connect with Big A and Wally:
View From The Top Website: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/
The Climb Newsletter: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/climb
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Wally’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwallenbeck/
My business right now has zero value. Not nobody's going to buy it. It's not sellable. It's not really a business, it's just my job.
Speaker 2:It's a fair to say that you're looking for something that you don't exchange your time for money. Exactly You're. You're. You're looking for something other than a high paying job.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Hey everybody, welcome back to view from the top podcast where we help growth minded Christian businessmen who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountain to their very own view from the top. I'm so glad you're listening in today with us. We've got another special episode of the forge. We'll get these guys in here in just a moment, but before we do, I want to let you know what we're going to talk about today. So we've got a guest with us today. His name is David and he's working on building a plan to either transition out of the law that he's a lawyer, so out of the law world entirely, uh or maybe convert that law job maybe into an actual uh we would call business. We're going to dive into that today.
Speaker 3:So maybe you, as a listener today, are thinking, man, I think I've got a job as a business. Or maybe sometimes you think, oh, man, how do I do this better and build a business Right, versus, just feel like I have a high paying job. So if that's, you be sure to listen in today as we dive in. Let's get our hosts in. Today We've got big A with us today. We've got Brett Barnhart with us today. We've got Anthony wit with us today, ready to tear it up on the forge. Welcome, guys.
Speaker 2:Man, we have a full slate today. I mean, we've got a whole host of hosts today, so good to see you guys. While are you doing good?
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, I'm doing, doing great. We've got some warmer weather right now here in Tennessee. Life's good.
Speaker 2:It's pretty good. Oklahoma has the weather out there, brett, it's good. It's good so close.
Speaker 4:We put this good this week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, anthony's right here with us, so we all three have got good weather, so it's good. I got to ask y'all a question real quick and we won't take but a minute on this, but it was pretty interesting and it created a lot of conversation around my dinner table. Recently I went to a conference.
Speaker 2:A friend of mine was leading this conference and I've known this guy about 25 years, even look up to him. He's a mentor a little older than me and we got to talking about intimacy and I was like, well, I don't know where this is going to begin with, but he's talking about intimacy and he and his wife had had this discussion and he said he really got tired of going through the song and dance every night you know, is this a night for intimacy or not? So he just decided to schedule it. He said I'm just going to put it on the calendar and this is the day, this is the night, this is for us. And I'm like I don't know how well Robin would receive that and I thought it would be a worthy topic for a second with you guys. All of you guys have been married over 20 years. How would that go with your spouse?
Speaker 3:Those crickets there for a second I was like who's going to grab this one? Let's go, brad. You bring it. What do you got Brad?
Speaker 4:Yeah, she's going to listen to this. No, no should she?
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe we should get her to listen to it, maybe yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So, um, I don't know, I think I would. I would have to be very careful in that situation. Obviously, uh, we don't do that, um, simply because if it doesn't happen, she's a perfectionist and is there going to be an obligation or guilt around that, especially with two young kids in the house, cause a lot of things change each day. So, um, I don't know, I think that would. I think that would actually take a little bit away from it, simply because it's scheduled, uh, rather than um, I guess, in the moment, natural, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Anthony, what do you think?
Speaker 5:Uh, I've got a lot of thoughts on this topic, actually um Anthony has like uh, how many kids you have now.
Speaker 3:Anthony seven.
Speaker 5:We scheduled it seven times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was going to say no.
Speaker 5:Uh, I've got a lot of thoughts on the topic from a clinical side, but from a personal, like the clients, and I'd be glad to say that, but from a personal side, we don't schedule it Like that's our. My disclosure is we don't schedule but what we have found we went through, uh man, we went through a rough patch a couple of months back rough patch of our marriage really and we came out of that developing, um, anticipation and fighting for the intimacy. So we don't necessarily put it on the calendar, but we might put it on the hey, I got you tonight type calendar and that develops intimacy throughout the day. You know the flirting, if you will, or whatever. For us that's increased dramatically If we have that now. As far as putting it on the calendar, um, I have seen couples, or met with couples, where if we can get them to put it on the calendar, they fight for that intimacy, which is an interesting concept.
Speaker 5:Like I'm with Brett, right, I got a bunch of young kids too, and sometimes it doesn't happen. We might have been playing the board all day long. It doesn't happen because of young kids. But if there's dry spells in that part of your life and you do start working on. Let's at least get it scheduled. You can fight for it, say I'm going to you know, no, you can't. You can't fall asleep in my bed even though you're crying, because you hurt your finger, cause it, and you don't mind that I say that to the little kid. But like no, this is me and mom, like this is our, like fight for a little bit harder yeah.
Speaker 3:Quite the same as kicking the kids. Look at my calendar here. This is important. Well, it's hard to what about?
Speaker 2:you, Wally? Is this getting on your calendar? Yeah?
Speaker 3:So, uh, we have target days, yeah. So we don't have like on the calendar from, you know, two to two, oh five, I'm just kidding. We don't have the calendar like actual days and times, but, um, it would marry just over 30 years. So we just, like Brett was talking man, it just resonated a lot in terms of, like that song and dance, right Of like, are we doing it, are we not? I was going to have this like that and and and like it, just it it's.
Speaker 3:I think it's exhausting for me and it's exhausting for her. So, uh, we kind of came up with some target days, not going to tell you what they are, but I think for both of us having like a one to two day kind of uh, uh place to like to be flirty and to to intentionally, um, create some moments around emotional connection more intentional for me if I'm not paying attention Um, and so that I think that all plays into it. So so far, it's only been like maybe three months for us that we kind of set up these target dates. But uh, so far so good. Let me. Let me say real quick.
Speaker 5:I know we've got to probably jump to David and everything. One of the things I've found with my guys that are, uh, they're like I'm not spontaneous. I don't know, it's fine, it's spontaneous at all. We schedule like I work with them to schedule their spontaneity. Your wife wants spontaneity and you're not giving it to her. Well, what if we just schedule that? She doesn't need to see where it was on the calendar, she doesn't even like maybe every other Monday is flower day, it doesn't matter where it is, but by different means. It's not a but by developing spontaneity like my scheduled guys are like I can't do spontaneity Drives me crazy. She just, I just want to. You know, whatever the case may be, but did schedule the spontaneity which leads to the intimacy, if you will.
Speaker 3:Uh, hey, I got to ask you. That's really good, anthony. I got to ask you one question before you transition us over to take it. David, you opened this segment up with something about you had a conversation around the dinner table. Like did you approach this with with Robin? Yeah, absolutely A hundred percent yeah. How'd that go I?
Speaker 2:straight up ask her. She started laughing. She goes you're not putting anything on the calendar and I'm like, yeah, I kind of didn't want to do that either, but I can see how it could take. You know some of the the the work out of it. It's like, okay, here we go. But she goes that is insane. That is the craziest thing I have ever heard in my life, and so I started laughing. Robbins from the old school.
Speaker 3:That's not real. We're also different, right? Yeah, it's not a real challenge for us anyway, it's not something that you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, we have to work. That's a great part of our marriage and it's been. It's been really good. So it's yeah. I just was curious. I knew what her response was going to be before I ask her, but I ask her anyway. Hey, let's get into it today. The Forge man I am so excited to have Brett and Anthony with us today. Wally, this is going to be amazing for those that have never heard the Forge, I think you're in for a treat. This is a really fun thing that we do, and I want to tell you a little bit more about it, and I want to tell you why we do it.
Speaker 2:In Iron Sharpen's Iron, we do what's called man in the middle, and it's every single week. Guys come in and they present their problems, whether it's personal, professional, spiritual, whatever the situation that they're currently dealing with. We call that man in the middle, so they get their time kind of the hot seat, you know, and we do it in Iron Sharpen's Iron Mastermind. Well, in this particular episode, though, we're going to be protecting the identity by masking the man in the middle, kind of distorting his voice just a little bit for confidentiality purposes when you're in the mastermind. It really goes without saying the confidentiality is expected, and we honor that as other participants in the mastermind. But for this particular episode, we wanted to be respectful of our guests and we wanted you to have real data. We wanted you to really peer inside and see what he's dealing with, and so we are masking him and distorting his voice just a little bit.
Speaker 2:The reason for doing the forage is to demonstrate the real need for trusted advisors in our lives, and you've heard us talk on countless episodes man, we've got to have people in our corner. We've got to have people around us that can point out the blind spots, the superpowers, the kryptonite. There is just so much value in having other trusted advisors in our life, and when you have other competent, unbiased professionals giving you their perspective, it might just provide you with that missing piece that could solve any major roadblock that you may be experiencing in your life. And so, just so you, the audience, know, each of us have been given a really detailed overview of David's situation. We've had a couple of days now to kind of process it, to look it over.
Speaker 2:We know exactly what it is that he's going through, but I do want you to know that none of this is scripted, none of it's preplanned. We don't have questions already laid out for David. We're going to dive right into it and really find out from firsthand from David exactly what it is that he's dealing with. And I want to reiterate again what we're trying to solve for is David wants to know should he continue building his business like it is, just as a law professional, or does he need to convert it and get out of having a job, if you will, and create a real business in what we're doing? So we're excited today as we dive into this. Ok, we ready, guys.
Speaker 3:Are we ready to get David in here? Let's go. All right, let's go.
Speaker 2:Hey, david man, I am so glad that you're here today being our man in the middle. We couldn't be more excited. Thank you, first of all, for sharing all the information that you did. It must have took you an inordinate amount of time to put that together, man. I mean like you were detailed in giving us the information, so it's really, really helpful. And so we're going to dive in. We want to give you just a few minutes to kind of unpack a little bit of your backstory. I know you've done a lot of traveling, some things related to your marriage and your business, and then we'll jump in and start the man in the middle. But why don't you give us some context to your situation? Absolutely First, thanks for having me on here.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to be here and looking forward to the conversation we'll have. It did take me. It took me longer to give you guys all this context than I thought it would be, but actually very helpful for me to process it all and giving you this. So you say you're excited, excited to be here.
Speaker 3:We got. I got your email back yesterday. You're like I'm a little scared Not scared, you didn't use the word scared but I'm a little nervous, like you're going to do great today, man. It's going to be awesome. Well, and I'll say and this is just a touch on that to tell you I mean I know a lot of these guys.
Speaker 1:I mean I've known you, many of you guys, for five years and still there's a hesitancy and I think for most men there's a hesitant hesitancy to be truly vulnerable, even with people that you know and trust and respect. So why do you, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2:This is not really part of what we're doing. But why? Why that hesitation? What is it that's going on inside of you that gives you that pause? Well, I'll tell you what it is for me today.
Speaker 1:And because I was actually discussing this with my wife last night, telling her I was going to do this and excited about it but also very anxious about it, and part of it is like I'm coming to you, guys, I want to celebrate the wins. There's a lot of really neat good things happening to my life right now and I want to celebrate those. But where I really need help, there's a lie that I'm fighting right now, and that is a lie of of Well, there's some fear. There's fear of being afraid. There's some fear.
Speaker 1:There's lies that have a failure in a lot of things. There's lies that I'm not good enough to do certain things. There's all sorts of head trash that I'm dealing with, and admitting that to myself is one thing, but being vulnerable enough to say, hey, this is what I'm wrestling through with other men that I respect, that are highly successful businessmen in this case, is a hard thing for all of us to do. But what I've had to wrestle through is I've got, I know what's on the other side of this. I have hope and belief on what's on the other side of it, and the only way to get there is through this vulnerability, to wrestle through it to get the wisdom and the insight, and so that's what I'm wrestling with myself on some of that anxiety and doing just this.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you pushing through. I think there's gonna be great clarity on the other side of that conflict, and so thank you for pushing through. Give us a little insight, give us some historical data and tell us about your marriage and your family.
Speaker 1:So I've been practicing law for just over 16 years now, Been married 16 years, just over 16 years, got married my first year of law practice and went through.
Speaker 1:When I first got out of law school I was at a big firm, a large firm, big commercial transaction work, which is the type of work I've done since then, Doing a lot of commercial real estate, and was at a firm that the big firm is.
Speaker 1:It works for a lot of people. For me, one of my core values is freedom, adventure, creativity, some things like that, and it just was not a great place for me to express those in my personal life or really professional life. So I left that big firm after five years, went to a mid-sized firm which was kind of a stepping stone for me, and then, about three and a half years after that, went out with a couple of partners in my current law practice. That's evolved into my law firm now, which is owned 100% by me, and I've got a couple other attorneys that work for me paralegal, and that's where I'm sitting today. As far as just a quick transitional in law practice still do commercial transaction work. My marriage and family I'm married, got five kids not quite as many as Anthony, but we're almost there. I'm close, Still working on it, that's right always working on it.
Speaker 1:There's still time.
Speaker 5:I was working on it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you should put it on the calendar Schedule. It put it on the calendar Working on it Just a total side note.
Speaker 5:Number six, number seven came for us right about the gap you have in your kids, so you know.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know it's a lot, but about six years ago I was a couple of years into my own law practice, had not taken a vacation or time off in years, not even had not put an out of office reply on my email at all in almost three years, and my wife and I were just. We were between houses. We're just stir crazy and we needed to get out and do something. We, on a whim and I mean very much a whimsical thought, I did not plan bought an RV. I flew to Ohio to pick up a diesel excursion, loaded our four kids at the time in it and we took off for a month through Florida. I worked remotely and everything went wrong. It was miserable and amazing at the same time. So much freedom, so much adventure. It just really spoke to a lot of core values of who I am, who my wife is as well. We very much aligned in a lot of that and it was very good. So that kicked off about five and a half years of full-time RV living. We just decided not to buy a house. We've traveled all over the US. It was amazing in so many ways and again, awful in so many ways as you can imagine. We had our fifth child while we were traveling. We came home, had our fifth child and hit the road when that one was six weeks old and man, it's just, it's been a wild ride. It fed. That fed a whole lot of the adventure. And me and my wife we're both very much adventurous, love doing outdoors, so many creative things. It was amazing. We love family time. My wife and I enjoy each other. We enjoy our company. We're best of friends in so many ways. But it also, the living of that life, intensifies everything too. It's an intensifier. If you have a good marriage it's gonna make it great. If you got a rough marriage it's gonna make it worse. If there are issues in the marriage, it's gonna intensify and crack them. And that's sort of what happened, I think, for us After five and a half years. A lot of friction was happening, both in our marriage and me personally and my faith journey and my wife and some of her faith journey. My business friction was happening and I can touch on some of that as well in a bit. So after five and a half years we got off the road. We've been off the road almost a year, bought a house and we've been trying to navigate that.
Speaker 1:That transition's been challenging but in that about a year ago I went through a real big restoration. Last year was my theme, for last year was a year of restoration and there was a massive restoration in my life of putting the Lord back as my first love For me. I had allowed my wife to become my first love and that sounds wonderful and noble and great and honorable, right. But it's not ideal, it's not the way the Lord created it and I had looked to her for my one true source of happiness, my one true source of contentment, my one true source of validation for everything. And in turn she had done the same to me, but for different needs that she had. So I went through a big transition a year ago of putting the Lord back first in my life.
Speaker 1:But then I didn't know what to do with my wife. If she's not first, she can't be nothing. But where does she fit? And that's been a big transition for us. She's been going through a big faith journey as well and understanding a lot of her own stuff and story.
Speaker 1:But just the past month, if we were doing this man in the middle just to talk about my wins, I don't wanna talk to you about my marriage, because the last four to six weeks have been just astronomical amazing moments in my marriage. We're not where we're gonna be, but it's been amazing. But for the first time I feel like that is in such a right place, or is headed in a right place, that I can now start working on some of the other things that should come behind it. A friend of mine actually in ISI with me equated this as I was wrestling through some of this. He equated it to our. He said do you remember in a high school math doing the order of operation for a math problem? He said you can have all the same numbers, but if you do them out of the wrong order the end result is not correct. It's not what it should be. So I'm working on the right order of operation.
Speaker 2:David, before we get too far removed from this, because a lot of listeners and even myself are curious, what's transitioned over the past four to six weeks that's allowed this to be even more amazing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I wanna know what those ingredients are. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what are some of those steps, what are some of the things that y'all've done, because there's a lot of listeners out there right now that are in the same situation, same scenario that you're going through, and maybe they can glean from some of the things that y'all've done.
Speaker 1:good, the first I would tell you is you can't do it alone. My wife and I are both getting help, professional help and marriage counseling. We're doing marriage counseling. We're each doing individual counseling, both with believers. I think that's a really important thing, because there's a spiritual aspect to everything we do.
Speaker 2:But from me All independent, or do y'all collectively go? We all go together?
Speaker 1:I have a separate counselor.
Speaker 1:I meet with she has a counselor she meets with and then we have a counselor we meet with together. Okay, good. So it's been really good and, honestly, our marriage counseling we thought was gonna be the real help we need and it's been very good. But we've got a great marriage counselor and he's really helped us understand the way to a great marriage is for each of you to deal with your stuff, and so we've actually started spacing out our marriage counseling so we can deal with our individual stuff and it's been revolutionary for us.
Speaker 1:The one thing I would say if folks are going through that kind of stuff, it's not instant, it's just not. It takes time and consistency, but keep showing up, and my wife and I are encouraging each other to keep showing up, keep going, and the light bulbs are just finally going off after months and months of that. So that's been a big kicker for us. The other, I would tell you, the biggest light bulb honestly big A that's happened is when we both finally put the Lord first for us. Separately, we at times, one of us would put the other first and the other's just berating and fighting, but when we both finally let the Lord be the first love of our life, it's just amazing. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:Levels of the playing field doesn't help, right.
Speaker 1:And it just puts in a right position. It's a right hierarchy of where things should be. So that's been again. I'd love to take an hour and a half and talk about wins that are happening, because I'm just so dang excited about that and it's been such hard work for a year for us to get to where we are and that's just been a really good thing.
Speaker 2:That's good. Well, we'll invite you back and share all the wins Today. We're going to dive down into the weeds, though, so give us a little more context as it relates to the business and some of your desires.
Speaker 1:I had when I transitioned to a mid-sized firm. When I left that mid-sized firm, I was doing commercial transaction work. I actually left that firm to do a technology startup and was practicing law on the side. I knew then I was wanting to potentially get out of law practice, or had a deep desire to get out of law practice. The law is a jealous mistress is what they say sometimes, and it's just an intensity that I was ready to transition away from.
Speaker 1:There are aspects of law that I love. I'm a business guy. I went to law school not to practice law but to get back into business. I love business ideas. I love concepts, I love structuring things. That's what I love. I've developed skills that I think have really helped clients blow up their businesses, both from a legal service perspective but also just more of a business consultant side of things. So I wanted to transition that into my own ventures. That tech startup crashed and burned. I was a small player in it, but it went real south. There was a lot of baggage that came with that. To be honest, a lot of wounds and scars and lies that I dealt with, of failure related to that. It took me a long time to kind of get over. So when that crashed, I just transitioned into law practice. I had to put food on the table, so that's what I've done. That's what I've been doing now for seven years, since that crashed. I have never had a website.
Speaker 3:I have never done marketing.
Speaker 1:I have never done anything to go build my law practice other than word of mouth and good service. And that has. I have done well with a very good, high paying job. I get paid well when I want to pursue that and folks will continue to use me for that service. But I knew four years ago that I was at an ISI live event and I was listening to guys talk about these business concepts right Of this, that whatever Some of you guys were probably there presenting on it, and I thought, man, that just doesn't apply to law, it doesn't apply to us. We're a whole different sector, we're a unicorn. It doesn't apply to us. And I remember the Lord asking me. He said would you at least consider the possibility that all those business concepts could apply to law practice? I said, okay, I'll consider the possibility. I hired a business coach and with my law partner at the time, I cast a vision for what we could go create as a business for my law practice. And we I hit the ground, run at full speed ahead, 100 miles an hour. My partner was in agreement, but not fully. He just never was on board.
Speaker 1:Ultimately, after almost three years of kind of shoving it, pushing a rope uphill. He and I split amicably he's going one direction, I'm going another and it just took the took the wind out of my sails, just just crushed me in a lot of ways because the model was was not working. A lot of things were just messed up on it. Again, the effort was there, the model was was broken to a degree of what I was trying to build. I was trying to build something that was more missional than income producing. It was building a firm that could be a place for me 10 years ago when I want to get out of big law. So I built a platform for other people to come join it. But it doesn't really create income for me. It's just an opportunity for other people to have good paying jobs, like I have a good paying job.
Speaker 1:So that was disheartening for me to a degree and I've just gotten back to. I'm just working a job today. I've looked at trying to create opportunities to maybe just push the law off and pursue a business venture of some sort. I've had some successful real estate investments real estate, something I know or do I take the law firm completely, revamp it to a better model and go create something that's more of a business and not just a job for me, to where I can work on the business, not in the business. So I'm wrestling through that a little bit. I'm ready to get out of just the grind. I work hard, I don't mind working hard, I love working hard, but so it's a fair to say that you're looking for something that you don't exchange your time for money.
Speaker 2:Exactly You're, you're, you're looking for something other than a high paying job.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anthony Brett Wally, any y'all got any clarifying questions you want to probe or anything that he said thus far?
Speaker 4:I want to go back five years. How did we get here? Today? I just get a sense of like that whole traveling was running from something. Right and what? What was that traveling replacing? It's like, if I just stay busy doing this, it's like the do have me and the be have dude, right, if I do, then I'll have, and you know, and then I'll be this guy and and I don't know. Do you feel like that? Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, so what were you running?
Speaker 4:What were you running from?
Speaker 1:So I think there were two different aspects, are two different, I guess, channels I was running from. One is on the personal, spiritual side of things. There was definitely a lot I was running from there. You know, I do think adventure is a core part of who I am, so that I was running two things that I love and I'm familiar with. But there were a lot of things I was running from. I think on the personal side there was stuff, but also on the business side, you know, I was I was two years out of a failed business and was was making money through my law practice and thought let's just get the heck out of here and go. I'll be honest, brett, I think I halfway hoped I was going to meet somebody at some place that said we need you to help run this business, to build this business. I've signed the dotted line that day. That's a part of, I think, internally, not consciously but subconsciously something I was hoping for.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I just think about that and I think, okay, moving forward in the future and obviously getting yourself back in that you didn't take a vacation. You said you never had a vacation, and we always say in ISI, isolation is the enemy. You were isolated from the world, right. So then you just flipped the switch and went 100% the other direction and then you got fulfilled. You went through all this stuff. Your wife you and your wife are in a great position, but no fulfillment in the business. And so around the law side of things, there's a part of me it's like, well, it's over. But then you just put that option out there to continue to build that business. So is it really over? Are you done with law or are you not?
Speaker 1:I think I'll always have a legal bent towards anything I do, and so that aspect of what I do, that I love to do, I'll always do.
Speaker 3:What is that aspect of your work and what you enjoy doing about the law Like? What are those parts and pieces?
Speaker 1:So I'm a creative, my wife's artistically creative. I'm a creative thinker and outside of the box thinker to find business deals. I love structuring deals. I have a term I use for myself. I call myself a deal junkie, because sometimes it's an addiction, it's a problem. I wake up at 2am thinking about it. But that's what I love. That I get to do with clients is whiteboard out ideas and structures and solutions to problems and that's a lot of fun for me. When I get into the grind of all of the documentation, all of the details that comes into play with my law practice, it's very draining and suffocating for me.
Speaker 4:So you're a creator developer.
Speaker 5:Yeah, what's your working genius?
Speaker 1:Working genius. From what do you mean? Have you taken that assessment? No, I haven't. I've heard about it, but I haven't done it.
Speaker 5:I think something along those lines could be extremely helpful for you, because I look at you, so I've got a lawyer in my group. We talk law all the time and I would argue that, yeah, it does apply to law, because I've watched them apply it. The business stuff that you were talking about earlier, that you were like I gotta try to figure out how to apply this.
Speaker 5:But one of the things that I'm hearing from a business side is I'm hearing the solution and maybe I'm missing it, which happens all the time. I'm hearing the solution being another time for money, which is switching over from law to consulting and I know that's very vanilla right now that's the language we're using but a move to consulting is still time for money, If that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, and I've actually done some business consulting. I've had a couple of. I've got a consulting company that I've I keep off to the side that I've used a few times for different projects and clients that are outside of just legal services and I enjoy that. I love the consulting side of things, but it's still time for money. I was describing so. I had my father's a lawyer, my brother's a lawyer, my brother and hereto my dad's business and it's a I describe. What I do is trying to figure out a way to put a square peg in a round hole. What my brother's practice is is all he does all day long is put square pegs in square holes. It's the most boring thing I can think of. But, man, it is printing money. It is printing money and there's an aspect of what I have figured out about myself is, while I love the creative part of what I do professionally, it has not created the freedom that I desire from my time and there are other things I can do.
Speaker 5:Is that because of focus? So my lawyer friend has a saying that goes like this business is boring and boring is profitable. It's got so much so that his employees actually say when they're doing some of the legal monotony I'm obviously not a lawyer, I don't know what that legal monotony is, but like he's like literally I heard my employee sitting at her desk saying it over. She was like doing some type of filings over and over again and that staying on track if you will not getting chased has allowed for that profitability and now he can do whatever he wants or, you know, he has the ability actually to switch.
Speaker 2:David, what's keeping you from turning your law job into a business? Do you know how? Do you know what to do fundamentally to make this a business?
Speaker 1:I've got thoughts and ideas around it, yes, but what my job is is people hire my mind and I can't. I've got to switch my mind from. I can't automate my mind and I can't automate the way I think, and that's what people hire me for is the way I think and the way my mind works.
Speaker 2:But there are no. David, I've got a friend of mine that's a chiropractor and I go to him because he adjusts me right. Okay, it's not his mind, it's his ability. And he recently went to a model that he hired more chiropractors. He quit practicing, he's got the vision, he's working on the business. He's recently franchised those and sold the franchise recently and now he's retired in Florida. Right, it's the same principle for you, like they're hiring you for your mind, but if you're putting together confident, capable people building a structure that they can still get those services just not from you personally. Is that what you desire or are you desiring to get out of this altogether? I think it was an earlier question Brett had and are you finished with law, or do you want to stay in this lane that you're familiar with and create a business, and maybe you just need some assistance in how to create the business?
Speaker 1:I really think I should. My quickest way, not even just my quickest way, but I feel like I should go build this as a business Maybe I don't know how and my focus I mean Anthony's, my focus has not been on this. How come you should? I feel like I should do this. It's a great opportunity. It's the one right in front of me that I could go do. It's going to cause a massive shift in my mind, I know, and that's a lot of work.
Speaker 5:I'll put something else in front of you. Is that a? Is that a? Should we take the things in front of you? If we put something out, you said, it's right in front of me. Like I'm trying to use your language on purpose. Here we put something else right in front of you. Is that now the thing you should do?
Speaker 1:No, not necessarily.
Speaker 5:So why is this something you should do?
Speaker 1:Maybe I feel a sense of obligation to the folks that are already here and to Folks are the family. My family or their or?
Speaker 5:Yeah, the identity and history of who you are. There's a sense of brother.
Speaker 1:I don't think as much about my dad and my brother because I'm so far separated from them. There's a massive level of separation there that we don't even operate in the same world, even though we're in the same. We're in law, but we don't operate in the same world. I don't feel a sense of obligation there at all, but maybe there's a sense of wanting to redeem what I've, what I've not been able to accomplish here. That may be part of it.
Speaker 4:So prove a point that you can build it Maybe that it can be successful. Is there happiness on the other side of that?
Speaker 1:From just proving a point.
Speaker 4:Yeah, say, we spend the next three years building this out and you have 10 lawyers you're running in the organization, you have a COO that's running all the lawyers and you've built a business.
Speaker 1:I think there's a sense of satisfaction and pride that can come from it, like being proud of building something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then are you happy or are you looking for something else to run to, for happiness and freedom and travel on time?
Speaker 1:I think what I want to create is something that gives me that freedom For sure. I mean that's, that's one of my core values and my goals is I want freedom.
Speaker 4:So I've been in a 20, 20 years it's just a 20 years and I just remember times throughout building this that it's like if I can just get here, I'll just have freedom, and I'm still an employee to a customer. If you will, it's always going to be. I get so frustrated with people sometimes and and Aaron's like well, no matter what you go do, you're going to have to deal with people. So I don't know, like, like I guess to go a little bit deeper, if you could wake up tomorrow and do anything you wanted to do, what would you do? What would, what would tomorrow look like?
Speaker 1:Professionally or just like just personally. Where would I go All of?
Speaker 4:it, all of it, all of it, all the stems back to freedom for your family, right. So can I just just slightly different.
Speaker 5:because here's Brett, you're doing a fantastic being a therapist today. I love it. Let me just twist that question just slightly and ask it this way If you woke up tomorrow and all your problems were gone, what would it look like? I use the word problems on purpose.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Because it's a perception that you have. Whether they are or not, I don't really care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love getting to serve people and help people.
Speaker 5:So, what would it look like tomorrow morning, whatever the day is tomorrow. I don't know why I looked at my fake watch, but I did. What's tomorrow look like?
Speaker 1:I'd love to continue to have some of the conversations I had this morning with clients to talk about their problems. Do what?
Speaker 5:What type of clients?
Speaker 1:were those Clients that are having issues with partnerships, trying to figure out what options they have, how can they structure it, how can they do this deal, how can they make it work. I love those conversations. I love them. If money were not an issue, because that's my. If you want me to define a problem for me right now, it's dollars. If that were not a motivating factor or an aspect of this, that's what I would love to do. So what's the problem with what you're doing? In talking with my family and my wife.
Speaker 4:Then what's the problem with what you're doing?
Speaker 1:There's no, I haven't built a model that's financially freeing.
Speaker 4:So what does that mean? Let's drill into that. What's financially freeing to you? What does that mean? Define that.
Speaker 1:I love in my real estate business where I'm making money without just my time. That's freeing for me. I would love to have a structure in my law practice where I'm making money and it's creating financial freedom, even when I'm not billing an hour burning a clock to bill a client. So I also love another aspect of what I built my law. When I built my law firm, I set a mission statement of to be a virtual law firm that empowers entrepreneurially minded lawyers to live life on their terms. That was my mission and I love that. I love being able to provide an avenue for other lawyers to live a life of freedom that they want.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay. So we keep going around. So I'm going to land the plane a little bit and throw something out there at you. You continue to build this business. You find somebody in operations.
Speaker 4:I have heard nothing but great things about you and your services. You're a great salesman. You're probably great at talking to people, I'm assuming. Compared to the lawyers I deal with, you're not as detailed in getting into the details and it's probably because you don't like it. So you build this business because it can be a cash cow for you.
Speaker 4:And similar to what I'm doing over the next 20 years is building a commercial portfolio Because I'm trying to find that financial freedom 20 years from today. And I've built back from what does 20 years look like? What do I want in 20 years? And then I've just reversed, built that into play of what I have to do year over year over year to get to that point.
Speaker 4:But I can't do that without the existing business that I have now, because you can't build that real estate portfolio and be putting 20% down on all these real estate properties, right, and you can continue to get to do what you do, and then you bring somebody else in, bring some lawyers in, to deal with the day to day details, get you an operations guy and you just go out and sell and be David that I know, that I love to talk to, that you can sell all of this business and push it over to these people that just want to read that stuff all day, every day, and live in what you get to do and what you get to do best. So that's my thoughts, to start moving this in a direction to get you clarity today. I don't know what any other thoughts are David is it fair to do?
Speaker 2:can you do what Brett just described? Can you be the quote face of the organization, with administrative help or paralegals that can do the task, that can fill in the blanks? Do the details your meeting, your strategizing, your helping them solve the problem? It still doesn't totally give you a business. You're still exchanging your time for money. Even at that, you're doing that. Am I hearing you say you're willing to do that, because you said you love to do that? Do you want to at least do that aspect of a business?
Speaker 1:That aspect. I've never called myself a sales marketing guy but, I am, and that's fun for me. You're well-spoken, I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're willing to do that, though. That's what. I'm saying is do you want to be completely hands off? You don't do anything except cast a vision, orchestrate the business, get the right people in, or are you willing to be that? You really lit up when you started talking about strategizing, solving problems. You want to do that aspect of the business.
Speaker 1:I enjoy that. Yes, that aspect of the business I enjoy. It sounds like you don't enjoy all the details, that's right.
Speaker 2:I don't enjoy that either. You've got a team and they do all those things, because I can't stand them either. I enjoy doing similar to what you're doing. Is it safe for us to go down that path? Yeah, I think so. Is that what lights you up? That's what makes you tech.
Speaker 1:Those aspects of what I do light me up and get me so excited.
Speaker 4:Do you like real estate I? Love real estate. Do you have to practice in a certain area of law? Is there certain things that you don't go for? As a lawyer, I can do anything, so why don't you build a business around real estate?
Speaker 1:A law firm around real estate. You're saying that's about 50% to 60% of what I do. We're a title company. That is one aspect of my law practice that isn't fully automated, but I'm not far off from that. The paralegal handles 85% of it and I could go build that out pretty easily. Now, if I would focus on it, that's an aspect I could go build out even more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, david, we're telling you suggestions and ideas. What is the ideal business for you? What does it look like? Back to Anthony's question.
Speaker 5:Can I try to stab at that real quick before he answers? I believe that you need to. Based on what I have now and the information we've talked about in the past, I believe whatever business you do quote unquote do start be hired for, whatever the case may be, needs to have a component of creativity and space for you to be a squirrel is the way that I word it. We can confine that squirrel to a set of rails, but we don't confine the squirrel to where creativity doesn't happen, because that's your magic. And if that's your magic, we need to build something that allows you to do your magic, which, in my opinion, very much so, can be the law firm. But you get to be the squirrel of law firm, right?
Speaker 5:I actually thought about it. I thought you know what I think needs to happen. I think that there's this company it's a law firm down in Mississippi or down wherever the heck you are in this country, that actually needs to hire this guy named David that I know to be their vision guy, to be their cat like. You need to hire yourself for your company, and I don't know if the finances be out the window for that part, but that's the type of thing that needs to happen so that you can be that guy. That's your role and that's your place. Because I'm looking at this and saying I don't think I say anything to do with law. If it does, there's some a lot deeper stuff that we really haven't hit yet. Very possible, you talked about fear and different things at the beginning, but I think if we figure out how to let you live into your skill set, I actually think law can be that vehicle.
Speaker 4:How many lawyers out there own their own business that just wish they had a David in their business to go out and sell business so they could just set back and do paperwork?
Speaker 5:No, I literally just got off the phone with my lawyer. I'm selling a piece of property. I have to use him. He's the only one in the county. Like man, I wish there was five. I actually really liked the guy but, like the other day somebody got to him before me and I had to go with the lawyer way far away but didn't know. So I'm like go pick those guys up.
Speaker 4:So, david, I'm gonna ask you a question and this kind of points back to me Do you have tenacity? Would you say that you have tenacity?
Speaker 1:I think I do yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, and I would say, I do too. So what's that test? You said, anthony, a while ago Working genius, working genius.
Speaker 5:I'm not a. Let's go find the people that are the experts. So I let's use their information Working genius. It's great as far as helping that work, yeah.
Speaker 4:So I did that and it come back and said I don't have tenacity and, to be honest with you, it kind of pissed me off because it's like I'll do anything, Like let's go. And it defined it as tenacity to carry all the way through what I started. So if you were to start this, are you well at carrying it all the way to the end? Or at some point throughout the process it falls off the wayside. And what point is that? And I'm great at selling it, I'm great at getting it in, but when it comes to maintaining it and keeping it in a good state and taking care of that customer, I'm not good at that. I'm like I don't have tenacity to carry that. I have tenacity to go get it, but I don't have it to carry it all the way through to the end.
Speaker 4:And I had to deal with that and I had to say, okay, well, all these things need to go. So I would ask myself and kind of do a self evaluation of that and remove those things and bring somebody else in to deal with that and do what you do and what you love. My guess is people in relationship, and I just picture you on social media or YouTube teaching people about law or real estate and it just floods all these people in and you've got stacks of lawyers to have to deal with all this stuff in real estate law or whatever. That is because you're very well spoken and if you're just sitting in dealing with paperwork and all this day in and day out, I think you're missing maybe a gift that God has put in you to reach people.
Speaker 1:So I would agree with you a hundred percent on that, but I'm really struggling with how to transition to that.
Speaker 4:So okay, so a similar to me. I will tell you you fighting and trying to deal with those people will be a mistake. You need somebody that loves operations that will deal with that. Kevin can speak to it, because Kevin's very, very good at operations to deal with those people and help carry that through right. He has that tenacity to be detailed. All I can tell you is go find that guy, because that's what I'm having to do.
Speaker 3:Kind of layering on top of what Brett and Anthony are both talking about. Some listening to you talk and share and looking back through some of the context that you gave us, I think there's this idea that if you can kind of what Brett was talking about, if you can look ahead five years, three years, five years, 10 years, and don't necessarily identify the tactics of the business per se, but you've got your core values, which I applaud you for, by the way, a lot of people don't have them. So the fact that you have them, you've already got guideposts, you've already started to use them and for the listeners out there, you guys listen. We've heard David say multiple times this is a core value that guides me and imagine how confused and frustrated he would be if he didn't have those to even begin this process. So kudos to you way to go on that. But if you take your values and you take the things that are important to you and you define a you mentioned freedom as one of those so what does that look like in actuality? What are you doing with your time in three years, five years, 10 years? Just pick one. If you know it's five years, it doesn't really matter, just pick one. But what does it look like? What is your schedule? What does an ideal schedule for you look like? Take the economic side and the tactics of the business out of it for a second and just kind of define those stuff, build that out for yourself and what that looks like, along with your other core values, and then, if you begin to think that through in terms of so you've got your core values, you've got kind of your ideal not schedule, but you've kind of identified what it is you want to do with your talents and abilities and things you really enjoy, and then look at what are your assets and I don't necessarily mean money in your bank account. That may be an asset that's helpful to you when you go to make decisions.
Speaker 3:But look at your assets in terms of your skills, your abilities, your relationships, your connections. Maybe it's the business that you have. What is an asset there? Are there certain aspects to your assets that you have, your resources, that maybe can. Maybe there's unique parts of them, maybe there's not, but at least look at them. Maybe there's a team member you have that has a special skill or ability, or there's some type of leverage that you are going to be able to uncover or define and then start looking at okay, how do I? This is where I want to go, this is how much money I need. You've done that for the next five years. Right, this is compensation you want for yourself, or passive income or investment income for the year because you've like okay, I really want to go the real estate route, investing in that and building that. So I need X dollars to live on to raise my family. Plus, I need X dollars to put into that to be able to start building that.
Speaker 3:So if you look at that and you start backing that up now, you can start making good decisions for yourself and how you actually design your business to serve you. And that may look like you. I don't know what hours are for a lawyer, but that may look like 15 hours a week, 20 hours a week, 30, I don't know how many hours a week. That, like you, get to be billable at a very high, demanding rate, I would assume, in your role, in your abilities. But then you can, and that's important, especially in the beginning, right? Here's the thing.
Speaker 3:This is what I find interesting. You've been doing this a long time, but this is kind of like a reinvention of yourself, right, you're like you're at the beginning if you think about it, like you're kind of starting over, right. So you've got some, you've got some resources, you have your office, you've got some team members, but really you said what a year or two ago you kind of parted ways with your current partner and you kind of started reinventing yourself again, right, and that's that journey that you're on. And you kind of put that on pause this last year from a business perspective to work on some things personally. And now you're starting to pick it up.
Speaker 3:So, asking the question I think today is smart to be able to say, okay, as I go forward, how do I build something that is going to help me gain those things that are important to me in my core values? And you can't do that unless you know what that is and then work yourself backward so that the decisions you make going forward, you can align them. They're not gonna be perfect, so you may have to go off over here for a little bit and go sideways for a little bit before you can get up again. Right, whether it's a, you gotta do something in your business yourself that only you can do for a certain period of time until you hit this trigger point where you can get somebody else to do that right. So you might have some of those moments you're building again. You're like you're starting off, so it's fine, it's totally fine, and then you're gonna start making decisions that align with where you wanna go and you're gonna get the best clients that you can and you're gonna optimize your rates that you charge. You're gonna get the right people to help you. You're gonna talk to your team members and help them be part. You're gonna cast a vision but you're gonna have them be part of like understanding them and where they wanna go, with what they wanna do in the business and what's possible for you all, so that they can be part of this energy right. That's building toward what you ultimately desire.
Speaker 3:And so I see this as, like a lot of people that we talk to, whether it's here on the forager and ISI or even just out in the world. We were at a summit event which was like a 48 hour mastermind deep dive event this last weekend. A big A and I were, we got the host. That was fantastic and in that right it's like it's so easy to think okay, today I wanna turn the switch from being a business having a pie paying job to being a business owner. I just wanna turn that switch. Like I'm going to turn the switch and it's just gonna be that way tomorrow and that's actually not how it works, like even a Brett's business.
Speaker 3:This is really interesting. He was using his business as kind of an example of how he's evolving over time, where he's built an excavation business and he was all in all the time up until I don't know how many years, it's been a couple of years, whatever. Where he has started, he's never gonna be out of it. Like even in the working genius that he took, one of the things I love you need to do the working genius because it tells you how you thrive at work. That's all it is. It's not personality test, it's not none of that. It's literally how you thrive at work and it identifies three stages of work and so where you're working genius, and then you have competencies, things you're able to do but necessarily don't enjoy, and then you actually have frustrations, and so when you identify those and you start looking at your goals and things you wanna accomplish align with your values, and then you start guiding that decisions, you're guiding it all within.
Speaker 3:I love what Anthony was saying the rails Like how do I, what do I get, to enjoy what I want to enjoy? But yet I'm making sure that I'm staying in some guidelines so that I don't become the complete I wanna use the word I forget what somebody else used for you a squirrel. I say renegade, like I don't know what CC is. You're like a little bit of a renegade, right, I wanna do it different, man, but you need some guidelines because there are things that, just like in Brett's business, there's some things in his activation business that his COO or his integrator are really not gonna do.
Speaker 3:Well, that maybe, if you look at the standard integrator, that they might do, but his business is unique enough because he has some really cool skill sets that he can shore up other people in his business and he enjoys doing them, and so that could be you in your business. So I would encourage you to, like take the frameworks off the table in terms of, like every example that you've seen, not frameworks. Take the comparison off the table as far as what you should be and define what you want it to be and allow God to direct you with the talents and abilities and resources and all of that to help guide you into this over the coming weeks and months and years, cause you've got what it takes, brother, like you do. The fact that you've gotten here, you're still alive and you're still able to charge somebody hundreds of dollars per hour Like that just freaking blows my mind, honestly.
Speaker 4:But way to go. The thing I don't wanna miss, david, and we haven't even talked about this is how do you bring God into your business and the sense of satisfaction that God can use your business and use a vessel to reach people. So I honestly didn't do that for probably 10 years and there's so much into that and really seeking out prayer and what does God have for you and for this business and what plan does he have? Doesn't mean it's gonna be easy, but what plan does he have for you and I think about there's a specific reach with a specific person that you can communicate with. That we can't, and for me that's guys in the construction industry. So how does this become a gift that God give me to be able to do construction but use it to glorify and honor him and reach people through this business? So I would encourage you you've said a lot about putting God first and you and your wife, and that's awesome. I'm super proud of you. But I would seek that also, the same thing and putting God first in your business.
Speaker 2:David, earlier Wally was talking about, you're starting over, and in no way take that as a negative. It's a very positive. It's very exciting because you get to cast a vision of exactly what you want it to look like, so it doesn't have to conform to conventional methods. As Wally said, use that renegade hat, say, hey, I'm gonna do it my way. Right, I'm gonna do it the way I want to, and build and reverse engineer it and go back and say, in order to do that, these are the people, this is the life that I want, this is what I want out of the marriage with my marriage partner. This is what we want together, and you get to create it. You get to design exactly what it is that you're wanting to do and that allows for that creativity that you said you desire in starting this new thing.
Speaker 2:Whatever that is, I would encourage you strongly and it's your decision. Obviously, as we kinda start to wrap up, is that as you get a little bit older I'm a few years, your senior you want to create something that will create perpetual revenue. You're gonna get tired of exchanging your time for money. I'm just telling you, if you're not already tired, you'll become tired of that and you're gonna want more time freedom as you get a little bit older, with the grandkids, as your kids get older, and so I really would put a lot of focus and energy in that If I were you. I'm not suggesting that you need to do that, but I would love to see you do that because of all the benefits that a company owning a business, rather than a high paying job.
Speaker 1:I agree that's one of the things that really resonated well with me when I sat down with my ISEI guys and did just the financial worksheet, the one pager, and when it came to business value I was zero, because my business right now has zero value. Not, nobody's gonna buy it, it's not, it's not sellable, it's not really a business, it's just my job, and so there's a massive part of me that wants to create. That's another reason I want to go create a business. It's gotta be missional Brett. I love the challenge and the call to seek the Lord to see where, how I can uniquely use my business and the opportunities there, how he would have me do that and it has been a good analogy. I'm doing that a lot in my family.
Speaker 1:I'm married right now but there's a part of that big A is right now, my real estate investments are the only things that are really adding value to my net worth and portfolio things like that, so I'm gonna continue that. But I would love to do it in the business side too, and the only way to do that is to create something that operates without me. I can add to it, but it's got to operate even if I'm not there, and so that's something I'm. Whatever I'm gonna do. If it's in law or elsewhere and I really do I would love for it to be in law for a lot of the things we've talked about. It's gotta be a model that I can start pulling myself out more and more and more and just be there for the things I love to do, that I uniquely and gifted to do, and that I accelerate the business on. That's my vision, or my dream that would be. My dream is that-.
Speaker 2:You can do it. I'm very confident. You're very smart and you're a person of faith, and I remember hearing Billy Graham say that the biggest revival the country's ever gonna see is when businessmen take their profession into the marketplace and they take the ministry into the marketplace. That's when it's gonna happen, and I know that's a deep desire for you. You've voiced it many, many times on this Forge episode that your faith is very important to you. But what's so exciting? I get excited thinking about the opportunity that you have to create exactly what it is that you wanna do.
Speaker 3:What is the current mission of your business? David Cause, you'd mentioned a model you tried to create before. What is the current mission of your business?
Speaker 1:I haven't written a new mission for my business. Honestly, it's the old mission. While it's great on one hand, it does not need to be the mission of my business.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, cause you would attract the wrong people, that's right. They don't want to be just like you, and you don't need more people like you. Yeah, that's a good word.
Speaker 1:So there's a whole lot for me right now that I love. There's a part of me, kevin, when you said, hey, I get to start all over. There is an aspect of that big A that's just depressing, because I ran hard for three years building something that ultimately was not the best model, but there's a part of me right now that I'm in such a good place when I walk with the Lord. I'm getting in such a good place with my marriage through where I feel supported so much by her. And again, the order of operation I'm building things in the right order so that as I shift towards my business and finances and things like that, which are important but not the top priority for me as I build everything else, I'm anxious and excited about starting new honestly on the business front, in the right order.
Speaker 2:Well, you've learned how not to do it. You know exactly the things that you shouldn't do, and I can even see it in your demeanor. You're much more calculated, you're much more in alignment with your spouse, you have your priorities in the right order and I think God's gonna bless that without a question. If you just seek that counsel from him and implement that strategy, and it's gonna be something amazing. Even here's the thing. I mean, we do things they don't work. You learn, you pivot, you redo. You can't give up. You're not a quitter. You're not gonna stop. You're gonna keep going because you've got great value to add.
Speaker 2:So hey, as we end up today, any final comments or thoughts for David. As we've met here today, we're talking about whether he should build a plan to either transition out of law entirely or whether he should convert his now law job into a thriving business. And, david, as these guys finish up at the conclusion of what are they got to say, I want you to give me what you think is your next right steps. What do you think you should take away from this today and go forward? So, round table discussion. Anybody else got anything they wanna add or encourage David?
Speaker 4:I do, david. So last fall I went through a process and I always wrote vision for my business before I wrote it for myself and I'll send you mine, and I would strongly encourage you to sit down as a family and write a full family vision and let your business come out of that, because what I will do is build my business vision and then my family gets drugged behind that and then write your business vision out of that. And recently at the summit with these guys, I left with everything that I need to say no to and we go to all this stuff and we end up saying yes to everything and then literally we're saying no to something else. So in that, I'd love to see you write out what you're gonna say no to so you can say yes to the things that you wanna do.
Speaker 5:I got a couple things. David Kevin was talking about reinvention, and I think reinvention is the right word. I don't think it's starting over. We'll leave it to reapplying. Here would be my thought process for that.
Speaker 5:On you, though, as you do reinvention, the movement in the most comfortable place for you to be is gonna be back to what has worked in the past, and what has worked in the past is actually gonna get you what you have now or what you got in the past. So you're gonna have to continually fight against what is comfortable and what is natural and that might take. Hey, I went back to that thing over there because that was easiest, because right now I'm under stress, I'm under pressure. You're gonna have to fight against that. Specifically, some of the things that you mentioned fear, failure, not being good enough, family depressive symptoms and aspirations. Those things are gonna come in and say, hey, this is what's happening, and you're gonna say, well, this is the path of least resistance, because path of least resistance is where I feel the safest. Well, quite often it's not the safest place, and in respect to business, here it's gonna be the more dead end location for you.
Speaker 5:My piece of advice is I don't think you should be a lawyer, because I don't think you thrive as a lawyer. I think you could do law work, which is a lot of what we've been talking about. I think you die as a lawyer, like I think you should develop and die as the guy that has to do and I'm categorizing law as the guy that has to sit down and read all the books and make sure that it's right and write all the right papers. I think you should develop and die as that guy. And then my final thought I was recently man in the middle of my group and one of the guys said to me he said that it was.
Speaker 5:I gotta look how many words it is. He said four words. He said there is another way. He said you have to figure out. There is another way. I trade time for dollar all the time and he said there is another way. He's like I don't know what it is. He's like there is another way. And so that's where I would say Don't let the industry that you're in be the guardrails that you sit in. Bring other industries into it. I'm in the medical model and I'm like well, there's not another way. Medical model goes this way. You can't. Well, there's a little bit of truth there, but there's a lot of room for flexibility and application. Take those things that you say we can't do that and say no, no, no, how can we do that? What's the way? I think that's going to show you. I think that type of creativity is actually going to make you thrive.
Speaker 3:David, you're 43 years old. I know that seems like you're old. You're not, no.
Speaker 5:Kevin, that's young, he's young. We're going to say that.
Speaker 3:I just want you to know that brother, like 43, is young and man. I can tell you that if I think about 43, if I think the last, I'm going to be 51 next week, so I think about the last eight years. Right, if I were to go back eight years ago, for where I was eight years ago, to what God's blast and allowed me to experience over a eight year period, it's way beyond the story I wrote. And you don't know what he's going to do in three years. You don't know what he does in five or 10 or eight years. But Proverbs 69 says man makes his plans and God directs his steps. And so make your plans. Don't worry, feeling like you're behind, you're not. Just make your plans. Seek God's direction, get good counsel and just be willing to do the work and enjoy the freedoms and the opportunities God gives you as you continue in that pursuit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, David, thank you so much for coming and being so vulnerable today. Brett, thank you, and Anthony and Wally you guys have added immense value. I know that David's life and I'm excited. David, at this point in the episode, what do you feel is the one or two take away steps that we can hold you accountable to over a period of time to head you down the right path?
Speaker 1:Biggest takeaway is is honestly giving myself a little bit of permission to see my gifts and strengths in the business world and profession and really dial in on that Things like working genius and some other things I've noted on here, I think, to really take an assessment and get really clear on what those things are and I want to give myself permission to throw out everything I've done in the past.
Speaker 1:That's been hard for me to do, but I think I've got to do that. Let all of that go and start anew by assessing what it is my strengths are. And, brett, I love the thought of my wife and I right now are. We were away just the two of us this weekend. We're doing that every other month right now for this year, and we sat down for hours dreaming, and not necessarily writing a family mission, but dreaming and prioritizing and talking through the priorities of what we want for ourselves and our family. While our kids are still here, what can we pour into them, and I love the thought of letting a new, fresh business vision flow out of some of that.
Speaker 1:Because, that's invigorating, it's life giving, it's energizing, it's it's mission minded for me. So I think those are two of my biggest takeaways and steps are taking assessment of my gifts, talent, traits, and continue on the family vision and build my business vision out of that.
Speaker 2:David, thank you for being here today in the forge. We're just so excited to see what the future is going to hold. Some of you are listening to this episode right now, and you're putting yourself in David's position. You're thinking is it something that I should do to exchange the high paying job I currently have for a business? And so I would just encourage you to dive into that, to think through it. Use some of these practical applications that we've let out today to help you solve that problem for yourself. The reason we want you to do that is so that you, too, can have that view from the top.
Speaker 3:Hey everybody's. We close out today's episode. Again. I just want to thank David and Anthony and Brett and even big A man for bringing the forge episode today. I know we've gotten great feedback from this and so thank you for listening today. A way to continue the conversation here is actually over in our LinkedIn Christian business owners group. You can easily get to that by going to view from the topcom slash group and that'll redirect you over there where you can easily just hit join, answer a couple of questions and dive into the continuing conversation we're having over there about things just like David's going through and other things that we as Christian business men go through on a very basis. We hope to see you there. Until next time, have a great week.