80. Is Your Marriage a Burden? 3 Ways to Turn It Into a Blessing

"How do we lead if we have a wife that doesn't want to be led?” We might assume we know a lot about women, but actually we really DON'T know a lot about women. 

Marriage is often filled with mystery–how much should we lead, are we supposed to "be in charge," how do we solve difficult issues? 

As we peel back the layers of the husband's burden of leadership, Quentin Hafner, professional Skyward Success Coach and trusted advisor, helps us to dig deep into the heart of marriage and gives us practical ways to lead well. Together, we uncover the transformative power of a thriving partnership. Expect to walk away from this episode with a renewed perspective on leadership, empathy, and the delicate dance of communication that holds the key to a more connected and fulfilling relationship.

Key Takeaways:

• The single best instrument for personal development
• What if your wife doesn't want you to lead? 
• 3 crucial elements husbands must implement for the best possible outcomes
• How do we solve problems within our marriage?

This discussion is not your typical chat about marital roles. It's an intimate exploration of the intricacies of spiritual and practical leadership in a Christian marriage. We break down the misconceptions about what it means to lead, emphasizing the impact of servant leadership and the Holy Spirit's role in guiding us through the complexities of Scripture. Our talk is an invitation for husbands to lead with integrity and service, fostering trust and depth in their unions.

LinkedIn Group: 

Connect with Quentin Hafner:
Website: https://quentinhafner.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/quentin-hafner-93b07034/
 
Connect with Big A and Wally:
LinkedIn Group: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/group
Local Roundtable Events: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/isiroundtable
View From The Top Website: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/
The Climb Newsletter: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/climb
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Wally’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwallenbeck/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

There's so much upside. When you have a really smooth marriage that's firing on all cylinders, you have tons of energy. I promise you'll make more money. So if making money is important to you, you're gonna make more money. You're gonna keep your money because you're gonna divorce-proof your relationship. You're gonna feel good, you're gonna be happy, you're gonna feel light All those really great things that we all want.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Hey everybody, welcome to the View From the Top podcast, where we help growth-minded men who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountains of their very own view from the top. Thank you so much for being here with us again today. And we're going to have I'm kind of nervous about this topic we're discussing today around unraveling the husband's burden. I'm not even sure I know exactly what that means, but I'm nervous and both excited at the same time. So listen in today. We've got a co-host joining with us today in the conversation, quentin Hafner. We'll introduce him in just a moment and, along with you know, the host with the most Big A, aaron Walker. Welcome, guys, so glad to have you in the studio today. Hey guys, so glad to have you in the studio today.

Speaker 3: 1:05

Hey, man, good to see you, wally, I know why you're nervous, because this is going to touch on some stuff that maybe you're doing or not doing, so you're nervous because you're a husband.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Yeah, all husbands be nervous.

Speaker 3: 1:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and your wife listens to these episodes, and so you better man up here, you better show yourself strong.

Speaker 2: 1:24

Welcome, quentin. You're going to drop some bombs on us today, I think. So we're looking forward, thank you for joining us.

Speaker 3: 1:31

Quentin's also our neighbor. He lives right here in Nashville by way of California.

Speaker 2: 1:38

He's on the south side. He's on the south side of.

Speaker 3: 1:41

Nashville he is, it's still all Nashville. I mean anybody that lives within a 20-minute drive is from Nashville, right? Okay, fair enough. So we say nobody knows where Hendersonville is, but everybody knows where Nashville is there's not a 20-minute drive in Nashville anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:53

I don't know what you're talking about. No downtown, right on the interstate.

Speaker 3: 1:56

Have y'all ever seen such potholes in your life? It's driving 63 years I've been here. The roads are worse now than they've ever been. Man, quentin, listen, we really enjoyed having you at the summit back several months ago when we met man. What a great time that was. Got to know you even better. You've been in ISI for a long time, but we really got to know you intimately at the summit when we had that there in Franklin. And so, man, we really got to peer into your heart and really got to see who you are, and so we just wanted you to come on and co-host this conversation with us today, talking about some of the things that the husbands really need to be doing.

Speaker 3: 2:32

But before that, I do have to ask you guys a question. So I was at a conference not too terribly long ago and there was a guy walked by our booth and they said hey, what is that? Proverbs 27, 17 up on your banner there, what is that about? And I said, well, it's a Bible verse and it just talks about how one man sharpens another. You know and like why do you ask? And he said, well, I'm not a believer. He said I don't believe in that stuff and I don't believe anything about Christianity and I don't believe in a God, and I'm like really, I said do you mind having an open discussion about it? And he said, no, man, I'd be happy to. I said what do you base truth on? He said what do you mean? I said what do you base truth on? He goes I'm not sure there is any absolute truth. And I said really and I don't know why I thought of this, wally, I don't know why I think of some of the things I think about I said there's no truth. Like whatever we want to do is good for us. He goes yeah, yeah, whatever you want to do.

Speaker 3: 3:34

And he had some Ray-Ban sunglasses hanging on his shirt and I just reached over and picked them up and put them on my shirt and he goes what are you doing? I said, well, nothing. He goes well, no, you just took my sunglasses. I said, no, no, those are my sunglasses. He said, no, I bought those, those are mine. He was getting a little amped up and I said, well, no, really, I just decided I wanted them and, since there's no absolute truth, now they're mine. And he started laughing. I mean, he literally started laughing. Of course I took him off, gave him back to him. He said you know, I never thought of it.

Speaker 3: 4:06

In light of that, he said tell me more about Christianity. So I went on to tell him a little bit about how the principles I live by are Christ-centered and we base it on biblical perspective, and started thinking about some of those things and we got into the conversation can it really be truth without validation? And when we started talking through that, like the very existence of one God, there's no proof of that, right. And then when you start thinking about Christ's life, his death and his resurrection, we weren't there, right? There's no real proof of that. And then we teach that there's salvation by grace, through faith, but we can't prove any of those things. They can't see any of those things. So I guess my question kind of for us to talk about just for a second can there be truth without validation? So yeah, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 1: 5:03

We're dropping some deep bombs right away.

Speaker 2: 5:05

I know man, I'm like holy smokes.

Speaker 3: 5:08

Yeah, I mean, well, we're living by this thing that we call truth and we can't necessarily prove it. My point is I'll just go first is that there has to be an element of faith. Right, you got to believe either way, right? If you don't believe, you know it's an element of faith. They can't prove that either, and so where are you going to put your faith? And so, simply, for me, there's nothing in the Bible that we can absolutely prove, but there's nothing in the Bible that they've ever proved to be contrary to the Word. And so, for me, I put my faith and confidence in God's Word, and I guess that's the validation for me. Yeah, any perspective from your side.

Speaker 1: 5:49

Well, maybe just to add to that too, because I think that there could be, you know, some form of validation and just personal experience too, Like I think about people's conversions you know, conversion experience and, um, you know, like on a Wednesday they hated God and on a Thursday they were sold out and it's like, well, how does that happen?

Speaker 1: 6:10

You know it kind of it, kind of like to your point. It really it defies. There's really no way to make sense of that. You can't do like a research study to prove whether that was real for that person or not real for that person. Yeah, that's kind of how I think about that.

Speaker 3: 6:28

Yeah, yeah, wally, any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 6:31

Yeah, I think of my own life and the validation. I think there is validation and the truth. What Quentin was saying about is there validation that you know specifically can we do a video recording right, ruth? What Quentin was saying about is there validation that you know specifically can we do have a video recording right? That's what we think of validation today, honestly, right.

Speaker 3: 6:50

We live in a society where, hey if I can see it, I believe it Everything else I don't believe unless I can see it.

Speaker 2: 6:56

And we're naturally drawn to, we want to believe things we can see and things we can't. It becomes more difficult for sure. So, no, we don't have a video recording of that stone being rolled away and Christ being raised from the dead, like we don't have that on video. So I'd agree with that. I don't know how you validate that specific moment in the history of time, but one thing that's really cool about being a believer specifically and God's word speaks to this is that by becoming a believer, by having that faith right, all of a sudden we start this process of sanctification. I know it's a big word, okay, but basically it's. I'm going to paraphrase this terribly, but it's like becoming a better Christian, it's this process of like improving right, yeah, and knowing, understanding and all that right Over time.

Speaker 2: 7:44

This is a big word, but that's really all it means. And Scripture is very clear that it's difficult for a nonbeliever, someone who hasn't believed, or someone who hasn't looked at the whole picture, if you will, and chosen to have faith in creation and in faith in what God's word says. Because we were just in a conversation a few minutes ago, big A, on a whole different call about something else and it was around that idea of it doesn't matter if you think evolution is it or creation is it. You have faith in something right, everybody has faith in something. You have faith in something right, everybody has faith in something. And so I choose to have based on what I've seen, I've choose to believe in the truth of the word of God and, through that process of reading the Bible over time, the Bible tells us it's very true that it's impossible for someone who doesn't believe to read the word of God in totality and understand what it means, because the Holy Spirit's not in them. Yeah, they lack having the Holy Spirit right.

Speaker 2: 8:50

Yeah, which is like that. What's the word I'm looking for? Kind of a confirmation, no, like discerning, like when you read something. Oh yeah, yeah, that's the part of our faith that God chose to use is the Holy Spirit. So that's kind of a long answer, but that's where I'd land. I had a couple minutes to think about it while Quentin was talking, but that's kind of where I'd land.

Speaker 3: 9:16

Yeah, I think it's cool because there is kind of validation for me in regards to alignment with the consensus of other brothers Reading God's word.

Speaker 3: 9:29

God, when he ascended, he sent back the Holy Spirit and he dwells in me. There's this alignment, there's this confidence that in his word, through prayer, through the consensus of these other brothers, we can say without a question, we feel the inspiration to be being led by God and so for me, that's enough validation, right, I don't have to see it in order to believe it when we have three or four areas that are in alignment. And so, yeah, you know, that kind of takes us into today just a little bit, because a lot of the things that we're going to be discussing are references based on Scripture related to husbands, and it's kind of the marriage mysteries is what we've said, unraveling the husband's burden, quentin, we were talking about this earlier and you've got a real passion for marriages, for husbands, doing the right thing For the listeners. Just for a second, give them an overview of some of the things you deal with. You see why you're so passionate about this topic.

Speaker 1: 10:35

Yeah, thanks, big A Well, just for some context, just you know, so the listeners understand too. Like, professionally, I'm a marriage and family therapist and specifically I've been working with husbands struggling husbands for almost 20 years now and I've seen the transformational power that can happen when husbands really decide to take ownership of their relationship. And I've seen the dark side of what happens when husbands neglect that responsibility. And so I'm just a child.

Speaker 3: 11:15

What are some ways they respect? They don't take ownership. Give us an example of something that husbands don't do out of the gate. What is an example? You said you've seen those countless times.

Speaker 1: 11:30

Well, I mean, I think we, you know, we had, you know, talked about talking about, you know, leadership as a principle in marriage and you know husbands, you know what is their kind of leadership role inside of the marriage and you know, one thing that just instantly kind of like comes to mind is is really just seeing that a lot of guys confuse leadership with wanting to be in charge and and and so. Like, you know, very quickly at the onset of a marriage there's a giant fork in the road, whether it's going to be successful or unsuccessful, based off of that perception or mindset or, you know, understanding of what it means to be a leader or understanding of what it means to be a leader. And I think most guys in my experience really value that leadership idea. They want to be the leader, they feel good with that as a concept. But when it comes to kind of putting it into action and practicality like what does that mean Kind of day in and day out, showing up into your family at five o'clock when you're done working for the day and you want to and you're the, you see yourself as the leader.

Speaker 1: 12:52

You know what does that really look like? I think that's the real, that's the real kind of split and the real fork in the road. Does that make sense? Is that kind of answering your question?

Speaker 2: 12:59

Yeah, no, it's good you mentioned. No, it's good. You mentioned the word being in charge and leadership and immediately I thought of being in charge is actually, it sounds like that's easier up front, right, and maybe we learned that from the past or whatever. But we show up to our marriages and it's like, yeah, yep, like I've read the Bible, I saw that verse where it says that you know, we're not even going to go into wives being submissive today. I don't think, but don't even touch that one. Yeah, yeah, you read that and wait, that's taken out of context a lot of times and so you think this idea of being in charge and the reality is what I've discovered. You know, we've all been married for a while in here and you discover that that that's really not. You know what that means? It's leadership, and leadership is freaking hard.

Speaker 1: 13:45

It's really hard. I mean, I think especially the kind of leadership that Jesus models too, because it's really servant leadership and so it's not being in charge at all, it's really looking at the family and saying what is in your guys' best interest, because I'm going to go in that direction. And it challenges our pride, our selfishness, our our own wants and wishes and desires and and really kind of. You know, it comes down to really challenging the ego more than anything else. You know, it's like I always say that marriage by itself is probably the single best instrument for personal development than anything else, because it will challenge you. You know, if you, if you allow it to and you see it as an opportunity to grow, it will refine you into like the sanctification thing, molly, that you were talking about. It'll just refine you into such a great person, or you're going to buck against it, you're going to rebel against it and things are going to start to crumble.

Speaker 2: 14:52

It's like the hardest, best work you'll ever do.

Speaker 3: 14:56

Yeah it is. I'm going to take a different perspective on it just for a second. I got in some real trouble last week in my small group, and y'all know. Second, I got in some real trouble last week in my small group, and y'all know me. I'm always like hitting things head on and I hit it a little too fast sometimes, and our small group's been together 20 years so they all know that I'm a buck and bronco in a room, and so I said what about, though, the wives getting a pass?

Speaker 3: 15:21

Oftentimes about not being called up and called out. The men are constantly being called up and called out, and a lot of the times when you do that, you know with the wives, you know there's some resistance. Bear with me for a second. I'm getting to a point. What about the wife that won't allow or let her husband lead? From a biblical perspective, not running roughshod, that's not what I'm saying. I got so blessed with a wife that wants me to lead. She's like no, I want you to lead, I need you to lead. I understand the scripture, I understand exactly. But, quentin, what do you say to the guys out there that their wife doesn't take that approach? It's like nobody's leading me. I'm just as equal as you and we're going to go do these things Like Robin's just as equal as me, but she wants me to lead, right? So what do you say to those guys that struggle with wives that in no way do they want them to lead?

Speaker 1: 18:29

Well, I have a maybe unpopular opinion about that, because I don't think that that exists. I think that all women, at their core, are desperate for men to lead, but I you know how that kind of maybe looks in practicality. It could be nuanced or or or slightly different. And you know some people, some, some wives, are going to be, you know, easy, very receptive to it. They're going to be more passive, let's say, and other wives are going to be more assertive. They're going to want to have more of a say in how things go.

Speaker 1: 19:19

But if you look at it from like, if you take it out of marriage for a second and you look at it just like in business, you know the CEO is the leader and he's going to have his, you know C-suite, the people around him that he's ultimately leading. Some of those people are going to be more passive. Some of those people are going to rebel against what he's saying and his job is to know how to rally it all together for the greater good of of the organization. And so he doesn't. You know, ideally, a really great leader doesn't want, yes, men around him. He wants people to say the truth, to push back, to create conflict for what's in the best interest.

Speaker 1: 19:59

And so why can't we see our spouse in that same way too? It's like, yeah, push back. You think my ideas are horrible? Tell me, tell me, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm strong enough, my ego is sturdy enough that I can handle that. And not only can I handle that, I want that and I, I have a, I have a tolerance for that, and, and so a lot of guys, and this is where it goes. It goes back to spiritual development, or you know, spiritual development, personal development is because and just I and just sharing. Personally, it's taken me a lot to get to that place. In my own life, there was a long time when I wanted to be in charge and I was like, man, being in charge isn't working.

Speaker 3: 20:46

Was your motivation wrong? And I find that to be true with people like coaches. They have a motive. They're like, yeah, I want to win because I'm selfish in nature. They don't say those things, but they want it their way rather than looking at it for what's best for the family, for the spouse, for your marriage and man.

Speaker 3: 21:05

I did it so wrong the first 10, 15 years, like I was making the money, I was growing the businesses, robin was staying home with the kids and I looked at it as not as important as what I was doing. You know God says for me to lead, I'm going to lead this way. You know it's like man. It takes some real breaking of me and my motivations and my lack of purity as it related to what I wanted and why I wanted it. It was all selfish and until I took the servant's mindset of how can I serve you best, that is when Robin, let me lead. That was when it was like I was like dang. Why couldn't I figure this out earlier? You know not coming in large and in charge.

Speaker 2: 21:48

Yeah, but it's because this is what I think. I think this happens because, as men, we've grown up in an environment and our wives have grown up in an environment and you don't know what's in that environment. So along the way you're picking up these stick tights. If you guys ever walked through the woods like a field, you like pick up these little things that stick on your pants right.

Speaker 2: 22:07

Yeah, so you pick up these stick tights as you're going and it's it's, it's helping, like in a good or a bad way, right, a negative or a positive way, it's shaping right what, your perspective. And so when you show up to that marriage, like you've got this developed perspective based on all of these environmental influences based, right, I mean, just think about it, you've all these things and and you show up and it's like, okay, I think this is how I'm supposed to do it. So right, like yes, we do it this way. And then it's like it just doesn't. And most of the time I mean it's a process. Anyway, all those stick tights that are there, they just developed this, this perspective. That's not one that's going to, uh, be wholly biblically accurate. Uh, and you know I like this, this term, use the word servant leadership I like to think of like leadership actually is loving, serving and then leading, in that order.

Speaker 1: 23:13

Yeah, maybe even just starting with listening.

Speaker 3: 23:17

That's so hard, though, right it is. It's so hard Robin goes. I just want you to listen. I'm like I'm ready to fix it.

Speaker 3: 23:23

Well, I don't know, if this is encouraging or discouraging. What I'm about to say is like we got 44 years next month of marriage. Like we got 44 years next month of marriage. It's a constant, not challenge, but we're constantly working on it. It doesn't end because things change. Robin's desires are different, mine are different. I'm a different person. You know Robin's really deep spiritually, and I'm like man I got some work to do to keep up with, know how to match that. You know, in regards to this personal development, professional developments are different, and so there's so many dynamics.

Speaker 3: 24:01

To Wally's point while ago, we bring to the marriage different filters, we bring different life experiences and we've got to manage that ongoing. And I think what you just said was listening, quentin, I think is key in communication. I'm finding out even now how important it is that we just sit and talk. It's like, don't even try to solve it, don't even try to fix it, let's just talk and see what it is that we're trying to accomplish. And so, yes, we've had some real breakthroughs, even in our own marriage this year, related to communication, because I'm all about talking and fixing instead of just listening, and so it's a challenge for me in every conversation to just sit and listen, and so I think that's important.

Speaker 1: 24:45

What you just said active listening- yeah, it seems like we're kind of wired this way as guys we just love, you know, getting down to, you know, solving the problem. You know it's like, you know, do we really need to spend 20 minutes kind of talking about it? You know, I already know what the solution is. You know, let's just kind of get down to it. Um, but women are, you know, certainly wired a lot different. And and this is also, I think, an important point too is that, like for for guys listening to this, it's like I think we assume that we know a lot about women and we don't really know a lot about women, like as a gender, as a species. You know, it's like, well, how are like like, let's do like a, you know, like a research project on trying to understand these creatures. You know what do you?

Speaker 2: 25:32

what are they? You get scared when you start looking.

Speaker 1: 25:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:35

It's like, oh, my God yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:37

I'm out of here, yeah, so I mean we're just different.

Speaker 3: 25:40

It takes work. I think what you just said, wally, was true it takes. We spend a lot of energy and effort on our businesses and the person we're living with doing our due diligence, doing our research. You made me feel guilty when you said that it was like golly. I need to spend more time really studying that. That's a good word.

Speaker 1: 25:59

Yeah, and this I think it's also just I feel like saying that this isn't about kind of beating guys up, like what you were kind of alluding to earlier big A or you know. Guys kind of always get in the shaft like, oh, it's the guy's burden, the guy's responsibility, guy's burden, the guy's responsibility, it's not. It's not that it's it's. It's really just a couple of things. I think the first thing is the only thing I would ever ask of anybody guys and girls is to just take responsibility for themselves. You know, instead of you know, being obsessed about all the things that your partner doesn't do, right, it's like just start working on yourself. You know, I, it's like I, I wrote this somewhere. I said, you know, I used, I used to obsess, I used to, I used to obsess about all the things that my wife was doing wrong, until I needed, until I realized I needed all that time and energy to fix the things that I was doing wrong, you know, so, so that's that's kind of a thing. And then the other, the other thing too, is that there's actually a lot of research on these, this idea that the way a husband shows up in a marriage dictates the outcome of the marriage more than the way the wife shows up. And so if if I was going to just kind of summarize that in like a really simple way, it's like women are pretty much the same across the board. Men are the piece of the puzzle that's going to influence it positively or negatively. And so we as men, according to research, have a disproportionate amount of power to influence the relationship positively or negatively. And if you think about it, it kind of makes sense Like I think about it just more on, like a primitive kind of level, it's like I don't know. I think this will make sense to you guys.

Speaker 1: 27:50

So like I weigh like 220 pounds, my wife weighs 220 pounds, my wife weighs 140 pounds. It's like I'm just a dominant person compared to her on a physical level, and that also translates to our relationship dynamic too. It's just like it's encoded into our DNA, you know. It's like I'm the bigger, stronger person, and she knows that. And so, because I'm the bigger and stronger person, I lead, and my job as a leader is to make sure she feels safe from the outside world, but even more so that she doesn't feel unsafe from me, you know. And so it's. It's really an encouragement, you know, if, if there's anything to take away in this conversation, it's an encouragement to men that if they can take the reins, there's there's a there's a pot of gold for them at the end of the rainbow.

Speaker 3: 28:48

And what are some practical application that the guys listening right now could do? Just two or three things that we could really heighten our awareness to, that we could start to work on today in order to shore up our relationship better. That would allow us to lead in a very servant, humble mindset. What are some things that the guys can do?

Speaker 1: 29:14

Okay. So right away, I just I go for listening, okay, listening, as a skill, and you know, you don't need to go and hire anybody, you can just, you know, go on Google and just type in how to become a good listener and if, if you're motivated to learn that as a skill because that really is a learned skill Nobody, nobody, I didn't. I don't know if you guys did, but I didn't grow up in a family that taught me how to listen Well, it's like if I have an ability to do that, it's only because I've learned it as an adult. So I think, right away, just understanding that being a good listener is women just love to process their, they like to talk through things, and the more we can listen well, the more it's going to help bond two people together. The other one that comes to my mind just right away is just empathy.

Speaker 1: 30:05

I think most guys are lousy at empathy and that's okay. We're not really wired for that, you know. We're wired for solving, you know solving, solving problems and getting things done. But when it comes to relationships, a relationship can't function well without empathy and it's really important to understand that empathy is just also, it's a learned skill. I kind of liken it to learning how to speak a different language. You know, I don't know how to speak Japanese, but if I had to go learn it'd probably be tough and I'd probably struggle and it would be kind of messy, but eventually I could learn how to speak that language. And there's like a, there's a language of empathy to learn how to communicate that also.

Speaker 2: 30:44

And then the third thing Before you move on, can you help us understand the difference between sympathy and empathy and then give us an example, a practical example, of what it means to be empathetic in a marriage.

Speaker 1: 30:59

Yeah. So, um, empathy is the, the idea that, um, like, like Wally, if you're struggling with something, for me to empathize with you would be to kind of step into your shoes as a human and really try to get connected to it's like what does it feel like to be Wally right now? And so empathy is kind of like a felt experience of relating to somebody. As to where sympathy is more of just kind of like a like a head level kind of cognitive understanding, if Wally says he's sad, it's like okay, wally says he's sad, I can sympathize with Wally. But if Wally says he's sad and I want to empathize with Wally, it's like I want to try to really feel what Wally's feeling. You join in with them.

Speaker 2: 31:54

So sympathy is like I feel bad for you. Exactly Empathy is. I'm going to join you in the feeling.

Speaker 1: 32:00

Not taking on the burden right.

Speaker 2: 32:01

Like necessarily like. There's a difference.

Speaker 1: 32:04

Not feeling responsible for your sadness, but I want to join you in your sadness because I want to connect with you in your sadness. And the best way to do that? Well, let me just you know, one of the only ways that we can do that is by asking great questions. So I got to ask and this is where it goes back to number one just being a great listener. It's like, wally, like what does it feel like for you, what does it feel like to be sad? Tell me more about that. You know, can you elaborate on that? Because I really want to get connected to that.

Speaker 3: 32:34

Well, I think you just pointed out something really important and I'd never heard it said. What you just said is not taking on that burden but understanding it, and I'm so guilty of doing that, especially for Rob and especially for Brooke and Holly, my grandkids, some coaching clients like I can't let it go Like, like I heard, I show empathy but I take on that burden. Sometimes, Quentin, do you find that to be true? A lot with guys, Once they do allow themselves to go there, that they take that on as their own.

Speaker 1: 33:08

Yeah, and I think it's just part of the learning. You know, I think it's part of like the learning on how to do this well and to do this right. But you know, because guys are typical kind of like problem solvers and fixers, if Wally says he's sad, I feel like it's my job to make Wally not feel sad because I'm a problem solver and I'm a fixer. And so I'm going to say, hey, wally, let's find some solutions to make your sadness go away. And you know, let's do this and let's do that. And Wally doesn't need any of that. Wally's a smart guy. He doesn't need any solutions to his sadness. All he needs is for you know, you know for people to rally around him and say, hey, man, I'm with you in this and you're going to figure it out, but along the way I'm going to be with you in it.

Speaker 1: 33:51

And yeah, so so big a. I think it goes back to just our, our, our natural tendency to be a problem solver and, knowing that we can, it's important to be problem solvers. So we don't want to lose that, but we want to know how to compartmentalize it and so, like in business, we want to be problem solvers and then when we come home, we want to just compartmentalize that side of ourselves and put it away Because it's not going to really it's not going to yield positive results inside of a relationship. Typically I've been learning.

Speaker 3: 34:25

Yeah, you just said something, though, that we're always talking about being transparent here, and so, wally, I'll get forgiveness later if I can't share this, but I'm not going to ask for permission. So I never forget like I'm a problem solver to the core All my kids call me my grandkids, everybody coaching clients and I'm ready to solve it and I'll never forget it. I was on the greenway walking and Wally called me and told me about a real heavy problem that he was going through, and I just listened. And I just listened. I didn't know what to say. To be honest, it was pretty heavy stuff. I was like God, I'm not sure what to say. And I just listened.

Speaker 3: 35:04

Well, he called me the next day and he goes hey, man, I want to talk to you. And I go oh God, here we go again. And he goes no, man, I just want to thank you. And I said what'd I do? He said you didn't try to solve my problem yesterday. And I'm like what? And he goes no, you just listened, and that meant a lot to me. I think it's really important for the listener to think through your listening skills and, if you're like big A, learn to just listen and not try to solve everything, and I do that with Robin all the time, even now. You know she'll come to me with a problem and I'll immediately give her a solution. She goes. I didn't ask you to solve it. I'm like, well, what'd you tell me for? And she goes. I just want you to listen and I'm like she just wants the connection.

Speaker 3: 35:47

Right, she just wants the connection. She wants to listen and be intimate in that situation, you know. And so yeah, man, if you're listening out there right now and you do it the way I do it, take a lesson from this and don't go solve everybody's problems, and I'm learning a lot as we talk.

Speaker 2: 36:03

So thank you. Let me go on the record that you publicly said that I have been, I think, the first time you publicly said anyone's like stumped you, like you didn't know what to say, I didn't, you had no words. I was like great, nobody's wondering what the topic was.

Speaker 3: 36:20

Maybe for a different day.

Speaker 2: 36:40

Something that you were talking about. When we've been learning, we've had Floyd Dawson not on here, but he's a he's a big A's talked about him many times just a therapeutic counselor in the area that he's been in a relationship with over many decades and I was sitting in a training one time with Floyd and he talks about. You know, the man's primary problem is feeling inadequacy. Right there's, I feel inadequate and I believe he was talking about the women. The woman is really abandonment, like, not like feeling abandoned, and my experience with my wife has been when I show sympathy and not empathy, she feels abandoned because I've removed myself from feeling like I didn't recognize it with her. She didn't trust that I recognized it, I left it as an external, I wasn't willing to bring it in and I just I find it and you're talking about that I'm going man, that kind of melds right. Maybe it's a little bit of a stretch, but I think it melds really well it's a little bit of a stretch, but I think it melds really well.

Speaker 1: 37:34

Yeah, I mean, we've all been on the receiving end of empathy and man it feels, it feels really good. I mean, there's something you know, it's a, it's a, an essential, you know, for relationships, for really meaningful relationships. You know if, if somebody is struggling, you know to have somebody that that could come alongside that person and really connect with them through their hardship, it's, it's just life-giving. I think sometimes, as guys, you know, we can get going so fast and so busy and be so distracted. And again, it's not, it's not a bad thing. We just, you know a lot going on, especially like ISI.

Speaker 1: 38:14

Guys are growing businesses and, you know, trying to tackle big things. You know we're moving at a million miles an hour and empathy requires us to really slow down. It's like we got to get really slow. We got to go from a hundred miles an hour down to five miles an hour and it takes a certain like intentionality to really think about that. It's like, okay, like I got to do this right now. I got to get really slow and there's things we could do.

Speaker 1: 38:41

You know we could write sticky notes. You know, set them, set them places. You know we could set reminders in our phone, slow down, uh, just so, we're you know, we're you know. Ultimately, we want to be multidimensional. We don't want to be one trick ponies where we're kind of the same everywhere we go. We want to know that there's a certain way to show up and work and there's a certain way to show up at home. And if I was going to video record you or us me, I want to see somebody, I want to, I want, I want to almost not be able to recognize these two people because they look so different.

Speaker 2: 39:16

In what aspect would you mean by? Because normally we wouldn't say that. Normally we'd say you want to be the same, no matter where you are. Help unpack that just a little bit.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Yeah, oh yeah. So you're right, wally. Like the, you know we want to still like hold onto our integrity and our values, is all that's going to be the same, but like just our I'm thinking about it more of like speed. You know our way of relating. You know like, are we solving problems? Are we, you know what? How are we just kind of like interacting and? And yeah, I mean, if, if you, if you swing too far to the other side, even at work, that's also going to cause a lot of problems too.

Speaker 2: 39:49

So don't bring, don't bring the corporate Kevin business meeting home to the wife. Exactly Conversation. I've been challenged on that a bunch.

Speaker 3: 39:57

Okay, robin always says I'm not one of the guys and I don't work for you and I'm like wow, I got to present it differently. So I understand what you're saying, quentin. There is a different presentation style.

Speaker 2: 40:10

I know we've been on empathy for a while, because I think this is one where probably guys if I'm going to take a poll, probably a lot of guys struggle with this one. But you talked about listening, You've talked about empathy. Is there a third one? Because you know, threes are always good.

Speaker 1: 40:25

Is there a third?

Speaker 2: 40:25

one you can layer in there for us as a practical.

Speaker 1: 40:28

Nobody's going to like the third one, but it's really I didn't really like empathy too much. I don't like any of them. We have to learn how to share our feelings. We have to learn.

Speaker 3: 40:42

Skip that one.

Speaker 2: 40:43

Half the people just turned it off right now. They like turned it off the audio.

Speaker 1: 40:49

I know nobody, you know it's hard. It's hard because it? I know nobody you know it's hard. It's hard because it um, it invites us to go places that feel uncomfortable, it challenges our inherent beliefs and traditions about being a man and being masculine, and it does all sorts of crazy stuff to our brains, and so we don't like it and your wife is desperate for it, and so there's a big gap there.

Speaker 1: 41:16

Because here's the thing about human nature. Okay, this is just a fundamental truth about human nature is that human beings bond most strongly through the sharing of pain. Okay, so if you can't share that pain with your wife, the bond that you have with her is going to be limited. So you know the connection. There's a lot of different ways to kind of say it, the connection. You think about soldiers that have fought in war together. Their bond is so strong because they have gone through something so difficult together and it's that common bond that cements their relationship. And guys don't like this because of our beliefs about what is it? Is that weakness? Is that less of a man? Is your wife going to judge you for that? There's all sorts of stuff that goes on when it comes to that, but I've never met a wife that said that she didn't want her husband to share what was going on inside of him.

Speaker 3: 42:30

You know it's funny, quentin. I'll send you $500 or whatever after this. This is a session for me.

Speaker 3: 42:34

You can bill me for it but even after all these years, every day, Robin asked me how did it go, what are you thinking about? And I'm like I'm not solving problems. What do you mean? What am I thinking about? I was like I don't have time to think about it, I don't have time for those feelings, and it does feel a little less masculine, a little less alpha male. It does feel like I don't have time to deal with it.

Speaker 3: 42:59

I'm just being honest right here on our own podcast, like sometimes I don't even want to go through the time it takes to share all that. It's like it doesn't matter. But it matters to her what you're saying, what I'm hearing loud and clear. It may not matter to me, but she's desirous of it. She's desperate for it, right, wanting to know exactly how I feel, how my day is, what's going on in my mind, what are you thinking about, man? I just hear her questions the more you talk and how she's so desirous of that. You and just connecting.

Speaker 2: 43:32

I mean, a lot of guys you know think of connecting in the bedroom, and that's a good place to do that, but there's a lot more connecting that we need and our wives need, right yeah, than just physical. That's how, that's a, that's a primary way that they connect. I agree.

Speaker 1: 43:49

Yeah, it's kind of like the fastest way to improve sex life is just asking great questions.

Speaker 3: 43:54

Well, I'm going to go in tonight and I'm going to tell her everything she wants to know Big A is going to show up with like he's going to go overboard.

Speaker 2: 43:59

Here's my list. Yeah, you're going to show up with 20 questions. That's not how it works. Here's what.

Speaker 3: 44:03

I'm thinking about, this is what I really feel about, kevin, and this is how my thought no, I'm share at all yeah, really solve this problem. Yeah, as we finish up today, any final comments or thoughts and then tell the audience how they can reach you in case they want to connect.

Speaker 1: 44:20

Yeah, I, I, I just I feel like sometimes these conversations can feel slanted towards picking on guys, and so I just want to say again that's not where we're coming from.

Speaker 3: 44:32

That's not where I'm coming from.

Speaker 1: 44:33

I don't think that's where you guys are coming from no, not at all, it's really just, it's an, it's an invitation. You know it's a, it's a. It's. It's kind of like an invitation to step into something powerful, something great. And you know there's so many parallels here.

Speaker 1: 44:51

But like you know, we could, you know, because we could have this conversation and you might say, or you know the listener might say, gosh, you know that stuff sounds really hard and it's like, yeah, it is really hard and to have a great marriage it takes hard work. You know, it's like saying I want to have a great body. It's like that's hard work. You're going to have to work out a lot and change your diet. It's like I want to have a great business. That's hard work, right, or else it would be easy and everybody would have it.

Speaker 1: 45:22

And marriage isn't any different. If you want something really spectacular, you have to do spectacular things. But it's like, if you guys know, I mean I have, I have an, I have the most incredible wife, I, I and I, I have a great marriage because we have invested a lot in our marriage. But I don't come from good marriage genes, you know. I come from a very messy and checkered past where nobody knew how to do relationships, and so I always say, if I can kind of figure it out like anybody, trust me, anybody can figure it out If there's a desire to do that. You asked me how people could find me best, and the easiest way to do that is just go to my website, quentinhafnercom, and there's a contact form if you want to reach out to me.

Speaker 2: 46:10

Can we go back real quick, quentin? I'm just thinking about, as you're talking about, that it's hard, it's worth it. I get that. I think most guys would probably say I can see how it'd be worth it. It's hard, yeah. What about the guy and we've actually titled this today along the lines of unraveling the husband's burden what about the guy that's like I know it's hard. It just feels like this huge burden. What about the guy that's like I know it's hard. It just feels like this huge burden and I don't know what to do about that.

Speaker 1: 46:38

Well, you know, for that guy, I would want to. I would want him to get connected to maybe two things, you know. Get connected to two things on two different levels. Number one his own values.

Speaker 1: 46:54

If you're listening to this and you think that marriage is a God-ordained institution that God really likes a lot because God uses marriage as a metaphor to describe his relationship between his children and him it's like and that's not like a shaming thing, but it's like if you're a Christian person and you think that marriage is an important institution, well, that could be a great motivator to really want to get it right. And then the other one even okay. So if that one's less important, there's only upside in all of this. This is the other important message like upside, in so many ways upside and feeling great. I mean, you guys know this you get into an argument with your wife and then the next day you're completely unproductive, you can't do anything because you're distracted, you're thinking about it, you feel bad inside, and so there's so much upside.

Speaker 1: 47:48

When you have a really smooth marriage, that's firing on all cylinders, you have tons of energy. I promise you'll make more money. So if making money is important to you, you're going to make more money. You're going to keep your money because you're going to divorce, proof your relationship. You're going to feel good, you're going to be happy, you're going to feel light and all those really great things that we all want in our lives. And so you know, I don't know for me, when my marriage isn't clicking well, everything seems to fall apart. I'm not good at, I'm not good at being a dad. I'm not good at my job, I'm not good with clients. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not good to myself, I don't take care of myself because I feel bad inside. And so you know, if there is an inspiration to want to, you know, get your relationship dialed in, dialed in, it could come from that way also.

Speaker 3: 48:35

That's good. Yeah man, that's really really good.

Speaker 2: 48:40

Hey, big A, before you go here, I know that this was a conversation today. This wasn't an interview. Really, we asked Quentin a lot of questions because we brought him on, because he's a lot of experience around this topic.

Speaker 2: 48:58

He does a lot of questions because we brought him on, because he's a lot of experience around this topic and, just for the listeners, one of the ways that Quentin kind of shares his experience other than his professional practices he's written a book called Black Belt Husband and it's actually a book. It's called A Marriage Book for Men. So go look that up, black Belt Husband. I just bought it after learning about it. I haven't that up Black belt, uh, husband. I just bought it, uh, after learning about it. I haven't even dove into it yet, but I've looked at some of the chapters and and, uh, I'm excited about diving in and, uh, I love how you've taken it and you know anybody that's been in jujitsu or any type of martial arts and just walking through the different colors of belts and experience and the time and all of that that it takes, I think that's all wrapped up in like being a good husband, you know.

Speaker 1: 49:37

So thank you for writing that and sharing your knowledge Well this is what I also heard, too, kevin, from my ISI group that even if you don't read the book and you just set it on the nightstand next to your bed, you're guaranteed to get lucky more often because your wife thinks you're reading a marriage book.

Speaker 3: 49:57

There you go, you're trying.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Okay, I'm going to dispel that myth, because I heard you say that before. So I bought the book and I got it and I put it on my nightstand and I said to my wife today I'm like honey, I got that book and I'm doing this podcast. I haven't opened it yet, but do you know where I put it?

Speaker 3: 50:19

She goes, I have no idea, so maybe I need to put on a little stand or something I don't know.

Speaker 2: 50:23

Put it on her pillow. That's what you need to do Put some roses and chocolates in that book up there.

Speaker 3: 50:29

Yeah, man, really good today. Well, it's really clear to us that the path to effective leadership in a marriage is not about shouldering the weight alone but, as we've talked about today, it's leaning into the partnership, really valuing your partner, really uplifting our spouse and really making those contributions on a daily basis. And, quentin, I wanna thank you and Wally today for showing us the importance of really balancing leadership with humility and love and having that servant's heart that we talked about today. That's what we need to do, right. We need to listen better. We need to love them well, like Christ loved the church. That's what he said and that's what we need to do here.

Speaker 3: 51:08

And, guys, just to be honest with you, we need to carry forward the idea that leading well means growing together. That's what we've got to do, right. We've got to shoulder together these experiences and we've got to do that with sacrificial love, without a question. That's what we've got to do. We've got to have that open communication. We've got to have a steadfast commitment to each other's spiritual and their personal growth, regardless of what we do, we've got to be working on these things together and the main reason, as always, we want you to practice these traits, so that you, too, can have a view from the top.

Speaker 2: 51:43

Hey, thank you all so much for listening. This week, man, there was some truth bombs dropped in there, so maybe you want to share this with somebody that you know. Maybe there's a buddy or a colleague or someone you want to share this with somebody that you know. Maybe there's a buddy or a colleague or someone you can share this out with and just say, hey, man, take a listen to this, there's some good stuff in there that you can walk away with and work on improving your marriage.

Speaker 2: 52:03

Speaking of Quentin this week actually coming up later this week this was podcast, came out on April 16th, I believe. I'm actually looking forward to this coming weekend, the 19th to the 21st. We actually have an Iron Sharpens, iron men's live event here in Nashville and Quentin's actually speaking at that. So I'm looking forward to this coming weekend hearing what Quentin has to say to all the guys. Obviously, you can't come to this live event, but, man, if you're interested in the next one or if you're interested in learning more about Iron Sharpeners, iron Masterminds and the guys that are in there, you can go out to viewfromthetopcom slash events. That's viewfromthetopcom slash events and you can see the next one that's coming up. You can just put your name and email in there and you'll be notified when that's coming up and you can learn more about that there. So thank you again for listening and may you all have an amazing week. Go make it a masterpiece.