88. Why Successful Business Owners Seek Out This #1 Necessity

"You’re not asking for someone to make your decisions for you, you’re saying 'I need more information than I can get on my own.'" When you become a successful business owner, you'll find you need unique perspectives more than ever because your decisions are more important than ever. 

Key Takeaways:

• Why success and loneliness often go together
• How to make decisions that don't leave your business or family in a bad place
• Why do successful business owners look for deeper relationships? 
• How to shorten the learning curve on running a successful business

Through personal stories, we reveal the struggles of feeling alone despite being surrounded by money and success, and how finding a community of understanding peers can offer much-needed perspective and actionable advice.

Leadership isn't just about making decisions, it's about how important those decisions turn out to be when one is poorly made. We discuss the challenges of solopreneurship and the pitfalls of trying to do everything on your own–and where that often leads you.

Iron Sharpens Iron Community: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/community
LinkedIn Group: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/group
Local Roundtable Events: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/isiroundtable

Connect with Big A and Wally:
View From The Top Website: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/
The Climb Newsletter: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/climb
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Wally’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwallenbeck/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey, welcome back to View From the Top podcast, where we help growth-minded men who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountain to their very own view from the top. Hey, I've got a question for you as a listener today. Have you ever felt, or been alone in your leadership? I think you have. I think you know the feeling.

Speaker 1: 0:27

It's that feeling when you can't really say all that's on your mind in certain environments, maybe even in your leadership team meetings at work. Maybe it's, you know, and I hate to say this, but maybe it's even in your marriage, depending on the maturity you're at right now, the relationship that you have there. You're just not sure what to say or how to say it. You just don't feel like you can, you're not feeling equipped. Well, maybe you feel that way right now and maybe you felt that, or maybe you felt that in the not too distant past. If so, this episode is for you and me. So let's get started and get Big A in here. Big A, welcome to the studio.

Speaker 2: 1:10

Wally, I'm pretty pumped. I just had dinner with my granddaughter in from West Palm Beach and we had a great time, so I'm pretty excited.

Speaker 1: 1:21

I don't get to see her often. You're getting married, right, you're walking around the aisle. I am, yeah, I am, I'm pretty excited. I don't get to see her often. You're getting married, right, you're walking around the aisle. I am, I am, I'm pretty fired up.

Speaker 2: 1:27

That's one of the biggest honors of my life getting to walk my oldest granddaughter down the aisle giving her away in marriage. And I want to tell you something Ben's going to be a great guy, but if he wants to continue to live, he'll take good care of her, because no, I'm just kidding he's a great guy. I love Ben and it's going to be fun. Yeah, abby's getting married next month. God, I can't even believe that it's already here. I can't believe I've got a granddaughter old enough to get married. That's crazy, isn't it? She's done so good man. Finishing up school, getting married, got a bright life ahead of her.

Speaker 2: 2:00

She told me something, though at dinner, just her and I went. Every time she comes to town, I always make it a little date night for me and her to go out. We're pretty close. We're not pretty close, we're very close. Take her out on the lake, or we'll go to dinner or we'll do something. So we went to dinner. But I want to ask you a question that she proposed to me. That blew my mind. Now, bear in mind Robin and I have been married forever. Robin goes.

Speaker 2: 2:25

You keep referring back to what we paid for our wedding, which was $1,200. That included the dress, right, yeah, by the way, she put that dress on Laelway it was $99. And she paid on it at Three Sisters Dress Shop for about three months to get it paid for, but anyway, beside the point, for about three months to get it paid for, but anyway beside the point. She told me that her girlfriends are spending $30,000 to $50,000 on a wedding and I was like I know I had to turn my hearing aid up. I said Abby, you didn't say that she goes. Yeah, big A Like 30 is like average. Wow, I said 30? Wally, you had three daughters. I did. Please tell me you didn't spend $30,000 to $50,000 on a wedding.

Speaker 1: 3:07

What if I did? No, I'm kidding. No, we didn't, we didn't. So it is interesting though.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Even if you can afford it. Okay, that's beside the point. People say, well, I can do with my money what I want to do with my money. That's true for a wedding. I know there's people that spend more than that.

Speaker 1: 3:24

You got any thoughts around that you even care? Yes, you paid $1,200. I think we paid. I think Sonia and I our wedding. I say we, I mean her parents paid for it.

Speaker 2: 3:36

Well, they didn't us. Me and Robin paid for ours $1,200.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Sonia's parents paid. I think it was around $4,000. That was in 93 um 1980 here yeah and so our uh, our daughters all three of them got married, um, at 21, which is interesting. I thought we would have planned that somehow, but they all got married at 21, and so it would have been like 2000 uh, I think it was 17, 20, and then 22, I think somewhere in there. So we set a budget. This is how we did it.

Speaker 2: 4:15

That was an expensive five years for you. Yeah, well, just tell me about it.

Speaker 1: 4:19

So we set a budget at $20,000 was the top, and there's part of the reason for doing this. All right, let me give you some backstory. We just did an episode recently on relationships, and so I'm going to say this and I'm probably going to make some people mad. Hopefully, I don't like this is not-.

Speaker 2: 4:39

Come on, I like it when you do that, Wally. This is not a comparison. This is not a they did it wrong. He did it right, she, I get when you do that. This is not a comparison. This is not a they did it wrong he did it right.

Speaker 1: 4:45

She did it. This is what we did. This is our thought process was we knew we were having, like, a lot of people are are my families, or families are spread out, so we knew we had a lot of people coming into town and so we had extra meals that we paid for for them. We, uh, we for them, we, uh, we were all the from from a sign of my, my perspective, and all the girls were good with this. We wanted to serve full dinner meals at the wedding, and that's very expensive.

Speaker 2: 5:14

We had punch and mints.

Speaker 1: 5:16

Yeah, so without that, we did have a cake.

Speaker 2: 5:18

We did Okay.

Speaker 1: 5:18

So that was our decision, right, like we wanted that.

Speaker 2: 5:21

Okay.

Speaker 1: 5:21

Uh, we had um, for I think for all of them. We had like a DJ um and had an event space and whatnot. So they all did really well with staying within the budget. Here's what we actually told them. We said look, here's the budget 20 grand. Whatever you don't spend on your wedding, you can go ahead and take that into your marriage with you. And so I think one of them ended up with like having I think they spent 17. One was closer to 14 and the other one was like almost 20, but that was the last one and, to be to be fair, prices went up quite a bit from when she got married and when the first one got married. But they all did really well with that budget.

Speaker 1: 6:06

That's the decision that we made as a family. And there was, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't just punching cake. So that's again not a bad thing. That's just what we chose as a family. But I went to a. I went to a wedding recently where I thought was pretty cool. It was so low key. It was kind of like punching cake, kind of not even cake, I was like cupcakes, I think, and it was just like at this nowheresville kind of thing no big fanfare, but it was a great time to be together.

Speaker 2: 6:34

And they were just as married and they were just as married.

Speaker 1: 6:37

So I think it it depends on what you want and desire as a family. I am again. My judgment is yeah, you get up to that. 30, 50, 40, 50, man, I mean, depending on when you want to get married. That's a lot of money.

Speaker 2: 6:53

Robin and I got in a fight on this last night at dinner because I told her what the riff topic was going to be that we were talking about. And I told her. I said and I'm going to make some people mad like you just after I say this I said it's the girl's fault and she goes that is not true.

Speaker 2: 7:09

I said find me one guy out there that's willing to spend 50K on a wedding one guy and you won't be able to do it. And so I've given her a challenge to do to find one guy that's willing and desires to spend 50K on a wedding. I can say that because I got two girls right. I know all about these weddings and I'm not taking away from the wedding. It's a big deal and they want to be a princess and they want it beautiful. I get it. So I guess I better get off of this before people start checking out, We'll start getting hate mail.

Speaker 1: 7:37

Yeah, we'll start getting hate mail. Our email is no, I don't want to say that.

Speaker 2: 7:43

Man, I am so, so excited to talk today about being alone, because this probably is the number one reason people join Iron Sharpens, iron Mastermind because they feel like they're in isolation. They just do not feel like that. They have anybody that they can talk to that has context about what it is that they're trying to accomplish One-on-one coaching clients. I coach guys all over the country that have operated very successful companies and they have hundreds of people around them. They got hundreds of people friends, acquaintances but they say they feel alone because they don't have context. Right, they just feel so alone and even knowing that you've got somebody that you can go and talk to, that makes you feel a sense of they hear you, they understand you, they have context. I'm just telling you, man, it's a game changer. So you ever felt it, wally, in your company? Have you felt alone? You had a partner, you had staff, you had 50 something employees, but you still felt alone. You had a partner, you had staff, you had 50 something employees, but you still felt alone yeah, you know.

Speaker 1: 8:49

You know what I have because I had an experience even as of this monday, so we're recording this on a tuesday, so this was yesterday. I woke up and started my morning off, feeling alone and I've got you should have called me wally I was okay, listen, I've.

Speaker 1: 9:04

I've got mastermind groups around me and I've got guys I trust and love. They have context, they've got all that and and I believe, the spiritual warfare. So the enemy wants me to feel alone. That's what it is. So I was tempted to feel alone and I got on a call with an ISI brother and we took an hour and I broke it all down and ended up having a great Monday. And here's the thing you said someone who has context, someone that you can trust and a confidential space that you can go to. And it doesn't mean even with all the people around you. I'm with you.

Speaker 1: 9:47

I've talked to so many guys and, being a business owner, when I was looking, I yearned to be able to have a place that I could just be authentic and genuine about what was really going on in my head, even though that was a really scary thing to think about saying out loud to someone, because you just can't say that.

Speaker 1: 10:09

You just can't say the things. Not that you should say everything that goes through your head that's not what I'm saying but the things that you need to sort through and whatnot, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as a business leader, as a husband, as a dad, as a leader in your community and your church. You put that combination of responsibilities together and it's not that it's better or worse than any other situation. It's not that a business owner is better than a W2. It's not. They just have different things that they have to deal with and struggle with. And I've just discovered for myself all those years and the guys I talked to today you know they that's the same thing. It's like man I have I mentioned it in the opening right Like I had a leadership team for a number of years in my company and there's just things even in there, right, that I couldn't say that I needed a space to be able to vet that stuff out.

Speaker 2: 13:25

Yeah, because it sounds differently when you say it out loud and you're saying it to other people that are unbiased, that don't have a dog in their heart.

Speaker 1: 13:32

Here's the thing. This is what I've discovered. I mentioned earlier about whether it's at work, your marriage, your kids they're there. It is not their responsibility to bear your processing. No every time. No, there are things that's okay, but there are places where that's that's as a leader. That's not okay.

Speaker 2: 13:52

I think you do an injustice to your family, to your wife, to your kids, when you're going through that process, You're asking them to carry your burden, when that's your responsibility, and you need a safe place. I started thinking through, as I was kind of getting my head around this episode. I was thinking through different times in my personal career this is my 45th year being a small business owner and I was thinking of three very distinct times that I really felt alone, and one of them may surprise you, wally, when I tell you what this is I was very, very blessed at an early age to sell out to a Fortune 500 when I was 27. It was a God thing. It wasn't a huge thing, but it was big enough to give me kind of a jumpstart, kind of a boost In the probably 90 days after I sold that business. I don't know that I've ever felt more alone. You're like man I would love to try that, you know, sell out but the thing is is the money was good, it was nice. I'm not taking away from that it did. It gave me a little bit of security and gave me a jumpstart on some things, but it didn't give me what I thought it was going to give me. I thought it was going to give me this euphoric feel and this sense of satisfaction and the sense of accomplishment, and it did for a minute.

Speaker 2: 15:19

But, man, that wore off really, really quick because at that point, like I took off for a period of time I took off for about 18 months I felt worthless. I felt like I didn't have any purpose, I didn't have any desire, there was no motivation to do anything. My buddies were out building their businesses and accomplishing things and I was like what am I going to do today? You can only fish so much, you can only play so much golf. There's got to be a sense of accomplishment for all of us. There's got to be a mission. Now I'm not saying, as I get older, I don't want to slow down a little bit, that's not what I'm saying. I've worked a long time, so I'm ready to, you know, be able to do some of those things that we work hard to get to do. But that's natural. This was unnatural at this time, selling that business at that age, and I felt really, really alone.

Speaker 2: 16:05

Another time was when I had that automobile accident, because I was more of a recluse after that happened, like I didn't want to leave the house more of a recluse after that happened, like I didn't want to leave the house, like I was so devastated after I ran over and killed that pedestrian back in 2001. I didn't want to talk to anybody, I didn't want to see anybody, I didn't want to be around anybody. I was processing emotions that I'd never had. I didn't know how other people were going to view me. I didn't feel I had a safe space and I actually didn't. At that very moment. I didn't have a safe place. I didn't know who to talk to. I didn't know where to go. I had friends and they encouraged me. They came to me and they helped me, but they were limited the amount of help they could give me in a situation like that. Shortly thereafter, a local businessman invited me to join their mastermind group here in Nashville and I did and honestly it was God's providence, the timing, because I needed that space at that time and actually I took up probably every Wednesday for six months processing through that, working through that. But I felt alone. I felt like no one could identify with that. No one understood that they hadn't been in those shoes so they couldn't say I know exactly how you feel, but being around people that I gave the context to that could ask me, that could call me, got me through that faster, and so I was very, very grateful for that.

Speaker 2: 17:38

A couple of decades ago almost three decades ago Robin and I went through a really difficult time in our marriage. Same thing happened to me during that, and this was prior to the accident that I reclused right. I didn't want to be around anybody. I isolated at my house. I didn't want to talk to anybody.

Speaker 2: 17:59

A lot of the things I didn't want to share, I didn't know who to share it with. I didn't know if they would condemn me or judge me. I didn't know if they would be there to support me, if they would leave me. I didn't know the answer to any of this. The reason I didn't is because I hadn't invested the time and the energy in building the relationships to get the trust, to know I already had the trust. Then I was able to share, but until then I couldn't. And that's what I tell people all the time you never know what's lurking around the corner, and we need to be building these relationships before we need them, because once you need the relationship, it's too late and you don't have those people around you that are unbiased, trusted advisors that can help you, that have full context. And so for me, those were two excuse me, three very distinct times in my life that I really felt alone. Wally, what about you? Is there a time you can look back and recognize that was a bad spot for you?

Speaker 1: 19:00

I don't know if it was bad. I mean it could have been so a little bit. Unlike yours, I recognized about 2014, as I was building my business, that it felt lonely. I don't mean like at the top, like you're better than everybody else. But just look at an accountability chart or an org chart. You know there there's everyone else. You know reports to you, you're responsible, you know for everyone else, like it's the end of the food chain, right, and so I felt that it weighed heavy. You know I mentioned this conversation, had lots of people around me. You mentioned that before. You know lots of guys have people around them, but they actually don't have someone that you know they can really I'm talking about spare their soul for

Speaker 1: 19:57

the purpose of that. But, yeah, like they just don't have that space, they don't have someone. And so I that was me, like I felt alone. And so I went looking and I've told a little bit of my story here before and you know, through a couple other things, I ended up coming to Iron Sharper's, iron Mastermind, and you, you know, been here since 2016 and have found that I've I found that in multitude of relationships and my group that I'm in and and uh, but, um, you know, I mentioned uh, just this past week, having those. It's a temptation. It's not truth that I was alone, like I've got lots of guys around me, but the enemy didn't want me to believe that in that particular moment I just had to reach out. But I had it. It was there Like I'd built them, done the work, like you said, you know earlier, if the enemy can isolate us.

Speaker 2: 20:48

We can make it way worse than it is in our own mind.

Speaker 1: 20:55

There's a I forget what study they did, I think two, two or three years ago now, like it was the beginning of COVID, I think. And it wasn't because of COVID that just exasperate as expert advanced it made it go quicker, was that they figured like the number one as the world, the U S, I can't remember, but talking about like a mental epidemic is people, is loneliness.

Speaker 2: 21:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:21

People feeling alone and let alone that's just average, normal everyday people with responsibilities that are normal. Let alone you take someone who's got elevated responsibilities, elevated opportunities, elevated risks.

Speaker 2: 21:38

You add all that together, it's a disaster.

Speaker 1: 21:44

And so the other time that I felt I don't know if it was alone, because I had guys around me when I sold my business I know what it would have been like Use your example, I know what it would have. I can imagine what it would have been like if I hadn't had and I had been truly alone the challenges I would have had to face by myself and my wife, sonia, has talked about this a number of times that that, uh, you know we go through, um challenges that are big. Um, you know we've got we could sit here and list off lists of things. Uh, guys, right now that we know they're going through big things, uh, some of it's financially related, some of it's marriage related, some of it's extended family related, some of it's marriage related, some of it's extended family related.

Speaker 1: 22:38

Some of it's kids related. Life Just things, Big things, Right. And they're leaning in and I love I think Scott Beebe or somebody says this. Often they talk about borrowing courage and I just love that. It's such a good picture of what not being alone, having people around us, is like. But I've been there. I've been there and I hope to never be there again, even though the temptation comes.

Speaker 2: 23:05

Me too. Hopefully we're going to help some people today. If they're there, they can get out, and hopefully some of these things that we're going to add in this episode will keep you from going there. And when I was putting together a few of the notes, thinking through what are the three big things that we could talk about that maybe would help you or maybe that causes you to be alone at the top one is the lack of peer level interaction. We hear that all the time. They're like you know, I can't go to subordinates and discuss these things and some guys have partners, some guys don't. But even in a partnership and I got to be careful saying this, but I'm going to say it and then we can break it down on a different episode but even in a partnership arrangement, you're biased. You can't help but be biased for your own family, for your own desires, and we even don't put partners in the same mastermind group, and I always encourage people do not be in a mastermind group or a peer advisory group with your business partner or a family member, because they can't help but be biased. And so I just want to encourage and there may be exceptions out there right, there is to everything. But as a rule, you know, you've got to have a safe environment for people that are not biased.

Speaker 2: 24:27

I feel I had kind of a unique challenge that other people didn't really understand when I was in business decades ago, and that's one of the things that kept me isolated. I was like well, the business I'm in, the circumstances, the situation, my family no one will understand and so I'm not going to go and explain it, because if I do, it's going to take so much energy to explain to other people. That's why it's important to be in a group that you're meeting on a regular cadence, right? You just don't go to a weekend mastermind and have the ability to share all the context to get good feedback, and so when you're meeting in a regular cadence, you're like they're doing life together. They understand who your spouse is, they understand your children, they understand your business, they understand your finances, they understand your propensity, your blind spots, your superpowers, your kryptonite. They know what your aspirations are. And it makes it so less daunting when you can go in and have a conversation, when somebody has that level of context and you can share at a much higher level with someone other than your business partner, with someone other than your family. They can help you make an intelligent, intellectual decision, non-emotional, to propel your life to the next level. And so that's what we hear over and over and over.

Speaker 2: 25:57

I don't have peer level interactions with anybody, and so that's what I was faced with for the first two decades of my business career. It's like you don't know what you don't know. I don't have anybody else that knows or cares and I don't have anybody, a safe spot anywhere I can go and get solid advice. So I'll be honest with you and kind of like you. On a previous episode you said I'm embarrassed to admit this I probably could have been much more successful, a lot faster, if I had subjected myself to the scrutiny of people with context rather than trying to figure it out on my own. So much trial and error. I'm like, well, I'll try this, like I don't know what else to do, and that would fail and it would cost me money and more time and I would have to go. Perspective is such an asset in the right setting from people that are your peers, setting from people that are your peers, that have good feedback and interaction with experience, and so that is one of the things for me that's really helped. What about you, wally?

Speaker 1: 27:12

I dare. I put a dare out there. I've got a guy that that you know. He just it's not about ISI, he just doesn't want to put himself in a group of people and you know whether it's because he doesn't definitely your belief system, your worldview, but you know also, like just someone who's growth minded, like you listening to this podcast, if you can put yourself in that room and you can hear present a challenge and a problem or a situation and hear everyone's feedback like I, I've never been, maybe once, maybe once. I rarely, rarely ever have found myself in a situation where I walk out going well, that was a complete waste of time, like no one. Like I didn't learn anything.

Speaker 2: 28:16

Right, pick up things.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Yeah, and it's amazing, right, and all of a sudden you don't feel alone.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Yeah, you're like they heard me. You don't they understand me, they have context or they give me good advice.

Speaker 1: 28:29

I've heard you say it before and I've had this happen where we all think that our situations are unique. We do. Some of them are Like you ran over a pedestrian, like, okay, so you, not that you win but you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 28:42

Like that one's pretty unique, but most of ours are really not like that unique. And you sit down with some other people sometimes and let them really tell you what's going on and be able to be part of that journey in their life, and you're like man. My situation's not as bad as I thought it was and all of a sudden your perspective changes.

Speaker 2: 29:03

Well, then you have two or three other options to pursue that you didn't even know were available. You didn't even know it was a thing. And then the relationships and the connections, then the energy. I think you said it earlier that you borrow someone else's courage. You're like come on, man, you got this, you got this. We got one guy and I won't call his name, but we've been on him for a period of time to do something and finally he stepped out and he did it. And one of the guys yesterday on the call said man, I want to congratulate you. I know this has been a challenge, but you leaned into it and the guy now is excited about it. Right, we kind of pushed him off the cliff and he's out there doing this thing that he's wanted to do. But he didn't have the courage to do it alone, but with 10 other guys he had the courage to do it and it's going to prove to be very, very successful.

Speaker 2: 29:52

You know, when I started thinking and it scares me to think about even today, it scares me a little bit to think about the pressures of making high stakes decisions alone when you start thinking about you're making decisions for the entire company, the employees, those families of those employees, the children. When you start thinking about things that you need to accomplish to be successful and the decisions that you have to make, burdening yourself with that complete shouldering, that experience alone is daunting. But when you have other people that you can bounce the ideas off, they just give you different perspectives to look at it from a different angle. And oftentimes I'll be honest with you oftentimes I've gone in with what I thought was a great presentation and presented what I was going to do, and after they picked it apart, I was like if I'd done that, it would have been a complete failure, it would have been a disaster, because I didn't look at it from that perspective. I didn't even see what they were seeing, and so I can understand guys feeling that pressure that own these companies because they are high stakes.

Speaker 2: 31:10

I will say also that you got to be mindful when you are asking advice those that are small business owners or your businessmen or you work in companies that you make a decision. Feedback from subordinates is not the same as peer level conversations. They're just not, and it's as you said earlier, wally, it's not demeaning anybody. It's just different and some people are leaders, some people are not, and it's as you said earlier, wally. It's not demeaning anybody, it's just different, and some people are leaders, some people are not, and so you just need to be really mindful where you're getting your advice and your support and who it is that you're talking to.

Speaker 2: 31:46

You know you've heard the old cliches. You know people say, hey, I'm going to teach you how to make a million dollars, and you're like well, let me see your bank account. If you've made a million, I'll listen to you. You know you don't want to be taking advice, leading your company, from people that have never led a company, from people that have worked for other companies and never made a leadership decision. You just got to be real.

Speaker 2: 32:08

I told a story recently and I set the guy up on purpose, asked him a very pointy question and he told me I should do it. And then I came back and I said intentionally you don't know Robin, you don't know my kids, you don't know my finances, and you want to tell me I should do this. And he started laughing. He said I never looked at it in light of all those things and I said well, I got to be fair to you.

Speaker 2: 32:31

I set you up on purpose, because we talk about these personal professional development and masterminds all the time. But we are so guilty even some of you listening to this episode right now you just go out and ask somebody what I should do, without giving full context, and then it fails miserably and you wonder why. So I just want to encourage you. Think about this isolation when you're alone. I'm telling you, man, you need to get around some other people. Wally, when you first got involved in a mastermind I know a few episodes previously we talked about this what was, for you, one of the main reasons that you opted to do that?

Speaker 1: 33:18

What was the reason that you wanted to get around other people? I think I mentioned this Because you had a successful company.

Speaker 2: 33:22

It was a big company 50 employees making plenty of money.

Speaker 1: 33:30

Why would you want to do that? I felt I mean you mentioned this a little bit earlier, I think I've said this before but I felt the weight of of my decisions and you know I'd made enough decisions to get us there. I know I could have shortened that learning curve, you know, had I had more help along the way. I learned a lot through books and conferences and things. But you know, I made a I think I mentioned this on a podcast before but I made a big financial decision, with no counsel, of taking on a partner on my own. That cost my family, you know, well over seven, well over a million dollars.

Speaker 1: 34:14

And because I didn't know, I, I, I didn't know. And so at some point along the journey there, I, I, just I recognized that it's not that, it's not that I wanted other people to make decisions for me. I just, when you look at a situation, you're always looking at it from your own perspective, and that's how I was looking at everything. We hear all the time like you don't know what, you don't know. It's so true, I don't know, I don't. And so I got to a point where I was like man, these decisions I'm making are pretty weighty and you know, if I make, it's like things happen at scale as you start growing and building relationships and and making more money and all those things. One little one decision that you know can affect relationships and culture, uh, in a very negative, and that can affect customer service.

Speaker 2: 35:16

And you can make one or two bad decisions.

Speaker 1: 35:18

You can make a bad decision financially and find yourself in a hole, and so it's not that you're asking people to make decisions for you. You're just asking I needed more information than I could get on my own to help me make good decisions. And that was about business. It was about my marriage. It was about at that time I had teenage daughters, and you know some of it. To be frank, I did pretty well and I wasn't. I was looking for confirmation, right? Not like I want you to tell me what I want to hear, but I want to be able to present my case of this is why I'm doing it this way.

Speaker 2: 35:58

Yeah and somebody say, hey, you're on the right path or you're not. Yeah, exactly. So it's not always about that.

Speaker 1: 36:03

There's a problem doing it wrong. There's often it's yeah, yeah, but you know, consider this right, consider this right, this one little piece of that. If you do that, yeah, you're right. I see that I didn't think of it that way before. So that's been my journey, that's good. I hate being alone, man. It's terrible, I know, I know.

Speaker 2: 36:26

You know, another thing that I was thinking about that makes us feel alone is having responsibility overload, and I can't tell you, man, how many times I've got myself in that corner. It's like you keep saying yes and you keep taking on more. It's like, yes, I can accomplish that, I'm Superman, I can do anything, and I think decision-making is good, but it also can be a huge burden. I think that we've got to be very mindful of that. I told Robin one day recently this is kind of funny she looked at me and I said, robin, if I wasn't 63 years old, I'd cry. Right now she goes suck it up, buttercup, get over it, let's move on. Robin doesn't show a lot of sympathy. Sometimes she's like, hey, let's go, and I'm like, yeah, but you get that feeling Again, you feel that sense of alone. You're like, man, I don't know what to do here. Business is not what I'd like and we got this financial challenge coming, or you just like it's responsibility overload. It's like I just talked to my brother earlier and he was in a similar state of mind.

Speaker 2: 37:26

He's got a very successful company, he's an auctioneer and he's done extremely well, sells property, and he's got an online auction company. But he said, man, do you ever get decision fatigue? I was on the phone with him earlier this morning. I said yeah. He said I'm there right now, man, I'm just like, I just want to chill, I don't want to think about anything. But see, he feels that sense of aloneness. He's like I don't know who else to give it to. I don't know who else to talk to, I don't know who to get around me to help me make these decisions, and so we've just got to be mindful when we're butting up against. You know, responsibility overload.

Speaker 2: 38:05

I think the weight of that responsibility for your company's success or failure really rest on your shoulders and I feel that all the time, even in the company that we have now, I feel that sense of responsibility and this feeling often leads us to feeling a sense of stress. It's a feeling of carrying the burden alone. I mean I know you're here and you know Derek's here and Brooke's here and Brandon's here, all you know it's like. But then you're like, man, I'm the guy, like I'm the founder and I'm the business owner and I've got to do these things, and so you feel like isolated. And then you got to be able to go somewhere and share these things and I'll tell you it can take a mental and emotional toll on the responsibility that we have mounts up so quickly and I, you know, two years ago I shared this in a previous episode where I had this hit the wall experience where I had to take off a couple of months.

Speaker 2: 38:59

I took off November and December because I had convinced myself I had to do all these things and I had that responsibility overload. And so, thankfully, you were here, wally, and could take the reins and go do what we needed to do, and very successful. While I was gone, I was like why did I come back Like they were equally as successful, if not more, while I was gone? I need to take off two more months. But yeah, you ever been up against the wall yourself with a sense of responsibility. You're like I can't take one more thing.

Speaker 1: 39:29

Yeah, I love what you said about decision fatigue. I yeah, I love what you said about decision fatigue, like that's. That's so true. I often find myself, you know, being tempted to get in that lonely frame of thought when, when I start, when I have so many things on my plate that are not like really in my wheelhouse, when I haven't delegated.

Speaker 2: 39:57

Yeah, boy, you're talking about an energy drainer That'll do it when.

Speaker 1: 40:00

I haven't delegated properly, I haven't communicated properly. Right, We've, we got this scorecard. It's a tool that we use. It's called Success and Significance Scorecard. You know this, but for our listeners, we have this thing called the scorecard and I do it about once a quarter. It basically takes like this snapshot, this timeline of where you're at and these five transformational pillars that we use.

Speaker 1: 40:22

You know things like spiritually and relationally and financially and professionally and personally, and like financially professionally all those five pillars and like it's not just one question, there's like a series of questions under those and you kind of give it a score each of those things. And by doing that and then showing someone else particularly like the guys in my group it's easier to sort out like, hey, Kevin, like are you like these, these things you're feeling in the professional category, Like why is that how? I started diving in and asking questions pretty soon. It's like, well, I'm doing things that that I don't enjoy doing, that I'm not the best at doing, Cause I feel like this over, you have this overload and uh, but that's a way for me and I start getting these feelings of loneliness and so that's a way to help me combat that Right, and so I've definitely felt that way, for sure.

Speaker 2: 41:23

Wally, let me ask you this we talk a lot about taking care of ourselves physically. You know, going to the gym, eating properly which is eating properly is always a challenge for me, right? I've battled the same 20 pounds for 40 years. You know I'm constantly. You know I'm glad I at least am paying attention. It doesn't exceed that, but like. But when I do take the time for myself like I love to go to the lake and I go early where it doesn't interfere with anything else, or I know you like to ride your mountain bike and get out that creates another problem for me. It's a sense of guilt. It's like, yeah, I'm going to the gym taking an hour and I may go out on the boat for a little while. I feel like I need to be back here doing something that's productive, that's, you know, for the family or for the business. Do you battle with that at all? When you feel a sense of overload, do you feel like it's okay, like is that just me, or do you feel that?

Speaker 2: 42:25

I don't feel any guilt in that Taking time for yourself.

Speaker 1: 42:28

Yeah, I do. Yeah, I've got to stay on top of it, just like you do in terms of, you know, recognizing how important those things are um for you know, overall health, mental wellness and and whatnot but does a sense of guilt creep in for you that you're taking that personal time you're like?

Speaker 2: 42:48

ah, that feels selfish not as much anymore.

Speaker 1: 42:51

I I used to. I mean, I never did anything for myself before. Like you know, decades.

Speaker 2: 42:57

What would you say to younger guys out there in business? Like you know, you and I have been around a long time in business. Guys that are listening to this right now that can really identify with you know, I got the kids and I got my wife and I've got this business and you know how would you urge them to take care of themselves so they could maybe take care of their family better longer term? What advice would you give them?

Speaker 1: 43:24

I get to have an opportunity to talk with a number of guys and the guys that are intentional about taking making a priority and making time to, uh, for personal wellness, um, and for some guys that's going golfing, some guys that's having quiet time uh, you know, extended quiet time. Some guys it's, like me, mountain biking or fishing, like you, or some guys it's something else, right, whatever it is. But having that time like the guys that I talk to that are good at that or at least do a fairly good job at that their, their overall, overall life feels better and it is better, I think. And we just get so, we get so jammed up, thinking that you know we're the only one, which is kind of like being alone, like I'm the only one that can do this, right, and and there are times when, yeah, I'm not going to doubt like that, that, that is true. There are times when, yeah, I'm not going to doubt that is true.

Speaker 1: 44:34

There are times, especially just starting out as a solopreneur, there's a lot of times when you're it like that's it. But if you make a habit and a pattern out of that, like week after week after week after week after week, month after month, you're going to hit the wall, that sense of loneliness that you feel that you have to do it yourself and all that. It's truly a limiting belief that there have been number of guys that I've talked to that have built their businesses, including me. This is a hundred percent me. The first hire that I should have made as a solopreneur. I made too late, but I should have done it earlier, should have sacrificed a little bit more, knowing what I know now, intentionally been very intentional about that, but I could have got some help a little earlier. You know, a year, 18 months earlier, two years earlier to where it would have not just helped me from a personal wellness standpoint but it also would have actually helped propel my business even faster, further Right and the goals and the vision that I had for it.

Speaker 2: 45:46

So we're too short sighted. We're too short sighted. That's we want, like you can only see right now, rather than man. Three years, five years goes by in a blink of an eye, and if we could think a little longer term, getting that person earlier to be able to delegate to them a little bit more, it'll give you a sense of balance. I was so guilty of it too. It's like I don't want to spend the money, like I'll just do it myself, and then we become the bottleneck. Then it's like, well, we can't grow because it's all dependent on you, and so, yeah, we'll do another episode on that.

Speaker 2: 46:23

One final thing I want to talk about before we go is the fear of vulnerability. This is another thing that makes us feel alone, and this could be one of the most difficult parts. For men is to be vulnerable, because most men I know feel that they need to be perceived as the strong guy. Right, it's the alpha male, it's the guy. That's like I got it figured out. I don't need anybody else to tell me what to do. I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 2: 46:51

I wish he was here to listen to this episode today, but my dad was that guy. My dad would teach don't tell anybody anything. If you don't know, act like you do, fake it till you make it you know and don't. He was like don't share anything about your finances, none of your personal life, don't ever mention your marriage, any problems you ever have with your kids, don't tell anybody. It's like I was like oh my gosh. But I'm telling you, man, he had to battle through so much on his own because he didn't want to be vulnerable. He wanted to appear to be something that he really wasn't at the time and he could have done so much better in so many areas of his life if he would have had trusted advisors that he could have been vulnerable in front of Wally. Do you believe that leaders have got to put on that front to appear to always be strong and confident?

Speaker 1: 47:48

My experience and my observations. I've not had enough. That's not been an obvious thing to other people. For me personally Now, there's been a little bit mental stuff going on there, like I'll say I want advice and I'll listen, I'll hear you. But I think I got it all figured out in the back of my brain right, so I can be pretty if I'm not paying attention and not letting the Holy Spirit to guide me. I can definitely be manipulative, but most of the time guys that struggle with that, there's something else going on. There's usually a father wound. That's a pretty common one Pride, ego, self-confidence, like they're trying to say I'm somebody right.

Speaker 2: 48:37

That they're not.

Speaker 1: 48:39

Yeah, and that's usually where that stems from. And so the downside of that is it turns very quickly into pride and ego. And that pride and ego, I'm telling you right now, if you're building a company and you're sitting there thinking, oh man, like I got this figured out, I know what I'm doing, I don't need any help and I, you know, like, I'm the man and I, you know I'm going to have to be vulnerable and all this kind of stuff you can be successful, Ken. You won't. You won't find true joy in that because you won't have people that really like because, oh, I got a great team. They're this, yeah, because that's all you know today.

Speaker 1: 49:18

And you're a jerk and you think your team's great, but you're really just a prideful legal maniac and you're not seeing the full picture of what it could be right. So, because you have your own prescription on how this is going to go. And man, I've seen it where guys have been like you know what I see that and I'm going to make a change and they work at it. And you talk about joy is different than happiness, but you talk about the joy that comes from that, on a team of people that truly like sold out.

Speaker 2: 49:55

believe in it, oh, your, your family Like.

Speaker 1: 49:58

Imagine if your wife, like you, weren't that guy that had it all figured out all the time Right. Imagine the intimacy, emotionally right, that you guys could experience and what that could lead to in your relationship otherwise and your ability to serve God and with your children and your relationships in the community. You don't have to be that jerk that Aaron was for five years.

Speaker 2: 50:19

That's right.

Speaker 1: 50:20

You don't have to be that guy. You can be somebody else. You can choose today. You know God's giving you the opportunity right now listening to this podcast. If that's you do different. Man, get some help. Don't go it alone. Have some accountability, show yourself accountable. Get others' perspectives, make a difference. There's a guy that he's been on the forge so he probably wouldn't mind me. He's one of the co-hosts with us on the forge, brett Barnhart. I got to know him just in the past few years but, man, the stories that guys tell about what he was like when he was that, think, like you know, blue collar, hardheaded construction, you know excavator company owner. Think about that guy. Right, and he was that guy, like he was that.

Speaker 2: 51:15

Rip your head off.

Speaker 1: 51:15

Oh yeah, yeah, and he's still direct today. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, he is like he's direct, but he's professional, he's courteous yeah, I've had the opportunity to work with some people on his team.

Speaker 1: 51:25

They're great, they love it, they're sold out, it's. It's the real, genuine deal and you know what his business and his family, the growth that he's had in his business and the growth he's had in his family are a result of him changing because he got around other guys that they could ultimately get context to, and he's been doing the reps for like longer than I have.

Speaker 2: 51:47

Yeah, 10 or 11 years.

Speaker 1: 51:49

Yeah In ISI.

Speaker 2: 51:50

Yeah, hey, let me do fire a little warning shot, kind of over the bow. When you get off this episode, don't go out and spill your guts to everybody around you and be totally vulnerable and transparent and don't do that. You've got to do it in the right setting. It's got to be around the right people, otherwise you can destroy trust. You can destroy confidence if you don't do it properly. So just be mindful. When we say, be vulnerable, I don't want you to call me later and go well, big A, I did that and it backfired on me. So be mindful who you're around when you do that.

Speaker 2: 52:28

I believe, though, that being vulnerable in the right setting can take your life to areas that really you've never been. Finally, there's one last reason that I want to say that I think it's good to be vulnerable and authentic in the right setting is because there's no condemnation. There's no judgment. It's around people that want to help you. Condemnation there's no judgment. It's around people that want to help you, and so, when you get in that environment that you can celebrate wins and share the things, the victories that you've accomplished, you can be vulnerable and transparent in an environment where there is no judgment, no one's condemning you for that. They're helping you, they're encouraging you. That is when your life is going to go to the next level. So I just want to encourage you as we end up today that I hope this episode has really helped you kind of explore that feeling for yourself of isolation and felt by those that are what we would call at the top right.

Speaker 2: 53:29

You're a decision maker, you're a businessman, you're in there and you know're a businessman. You're in there and you know exactly what I'm talking about. The ability to confide in others. It's really limited to a select few and we've got to choose wisely. That's what I want you to hear today. Like we want you to do this, but be sure that you get around the right people.

Speaker 2: 53:49

We've learned about the amount of energy that it takes to give full context to your team. It's very tiring. It can, but when you do it in a consistent basis, it's nowhere near as tiring and you can do it and be vulnerable in a way around unbiased, trusted advisors that understand your circumstances and if they don't understand your circumstances, they certainly can't give you good feedback. When you are the decision maker and many others' well-being is really hanging in the balance of your decisions I want you to make certain that you're getting the best counsel that you can from others that genuinely want to help you. It doesn't have to be lonely at the top. I and Wally both are a testament to surrounding yourself with good quality people. They can help you make these decisions in your life, and when you do that, you surround yourself with willing, able-bodied individuals that can give you, too, that view from the top.