92. An Optimist, a Pessimist, and a Realist Walk Into an Office (Is One a Better Leader?)

Optimist vs. Pessimist vs. Realist: the game is on. “You’re not going to change who you are at your core, but... you can train your brain to create new habits.” Are you an optimist, pessimist, or a realist? Why does this matter in business, and how can it help be a better leader? 

You'll hear opposing viewpoints today as Big A and Wally discuss the differences and strengths of optimists, realists, and pessimists. Does one "win" over the other? We discuss the importance of blending different perspectives
—whether you're a galvanizer or deeply analytical—to make more informed and balanced decisions as a leader in business. 

Key Takeaways: 

• How to leverage the strengths and weaknesses you have
• How does stress play into your core leanings?
• Optimist vs. Pessimist vs. Realist.... is there a clear winner?
• Big A is an optimist, Wally is a realist–so it's going down on today's episode

Our conversation shifts gears as we dissect the balance between optimism, pessimism, and realism. We delve into how being analytical can sometimes be mistaken for pessimism and explore the strengths each outlook brings, particularly in professional and personal settings.

Whether you're fostering optimism in your family or balancing realism and positivity in your business, we offer actionable advice to create a supportive environment for your company culture. Join us for a deep dive into the power of perspective and the nuanced interplay between optimism and pessimism.

Iron Sharpens Iron Community: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/community
LinkedIn Group: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/group
Local Roundtable Events: https://go.viewfromthetop.com/isiroundtable

Connect with Big A and Wally:
View From The Top Website: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/
The Climb Newsletter: https://www.viewfromthetop.com/climb
Big A’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
Wally’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwallenbeck/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to View From the Top podcast, where we help growth-minded men who desire momentum in their business, their family and their finances get through the valleys and up the mountain with their very own View From the Top. I'm so glad you're listening today. Hey, I have a question for you. Do most people think of you as an optimist or a pessimist? How do you think about yourself? Is that good, is that bad? Are you indifferent about it?

Speaker 1: 0:29

Well, based on the notes for today's show, I already know Big A and I are going to be at odds on some thoughts around this. So I encourage you to join us listen in. But before we get Big A in the studio, can I ask you for your help? If you enjoy and find value in these discussions we have each and every week, would you please go just to the review area of wherever you're listening to this episode, choose a star rating and share with others what you think you. Just doing that simple thing helps other business leaders find this show more easily. So thank you for doing that. We appreciate it. So now let's get the tallest, baldest, most talkative guy I know here in the studio Big A, welcome.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Wally, I don't know about that talkative stuff most talkative but you know, I was just thinking that, in light of our conversation today, I think everybody that's listening is going to go give us a review. I really do. Do you feel that way? Do you feel like everybody that's listening is going to go give us a review?

Speaker 1: 1:25

No, I hope so, I hope so.

Speaker 2: 1:34

See, I really think they are, I think they will.

Speaker 1: 1:37

I hope so.

Speaker 2: 1:38

Because our audience is here. They want to help us, they love us, they support us and I'm very optimistic in my thinking related to the reviews I'm excited to see. But before we do, I got to ask you a question, man, I'm guilty of something that happened recently and this is a weird question. Wally, I'm going to ask you I know it's weird, but we talk about strange things on here all the time what are your thoughts about tattoos and body piercing, like I see it everywhere? One of our mutual friends and I can't say because it's confidential.

Speaker 2: 2:18

His whole back has got the most beautiful tattoo I've ever seen in my entire life. It is just gorgeous. But he's like I don't need to show it to everybody. But the thing is is that, like they're weird tattoos, there's good tattoos, there's weird placements of tattoos, there's some really bad tattoos. I know there's some really good ones too, though there's some really bad ones. Is that a turn off to you? Is it a turn off to you? Is it a turn on to you? Like, what do you think about tattoos and body piercing?

Speaker 1: 2:48

Man turn on and turn it off. That sounds more like a relational thing. So well, I'll just go there. So I don't personally have any. I'm not opposed to them. Like I'm not, like no, no one should have them. Them like I'm not like no, no one should have them. Uh, my wife in the last 18 months year, 18 months um, chose to get a her first tattoo. Um, it was interesting because I wasn't a fan. I'm, just because I'm not a fan of tattoos in general, but I don't like. That's for me, right like.

Speaker 2: 3:20

What about it? Don't you like? Or what about it? Aren't you a fan of?

Speaker 1: 3:25

Man talk about earrings and all that kind of stuff too. I'm just a very intentional person and so when my wife first talked about getting a tattoo, I was like and then she explained to me why and she waited quite a while actually before she got it Like she has a whole God story behind the tattoo that she got. She got a little. It says she had tattooed on the inside of her wrist be still and has a biblical value to her and a story behind that. And then she got actually another one not too long after that I don't think she got them at the same time. On her bottom of her leg that has all three of our daughters' names and their birth flower and so I think they look great just on her. Like you know, I don't know, it was kind of fun and sexy when she first got them and I think it's great she has them because there's a story behind them them. And I think it's great she has them because there's a story behind them.

Speaker 1: 4:27

If I'm looking at other people that have them and that's just me judging honestly, like just go throw that out there, like I'm just judging, like if I see someone that's covered in tattoos out walking on the street. It's hard for me not to think like what in the world, but that's their story, their journey. You know what about you?

Speaker 2: 4:43

Yeah, sometimes I feel that way too, but what's really cool is I've started this kind of practice of when I'm around those folks that have multiple tattoos, I always ask them what's your favorite and what's the story behind it, and it opens up some amazing conversations.

Speaker 2: 4:59

Because there's usually a story, right I don't know that I've ever asked somebody that there wasn't a story behind their tattoo. Right, it's like they just didn't go get something for no reason. Like you know, as you said, the kids' names or the flower is a biblical connotation. Like there's something behind it. I'm going to tell you something, wally. I'm just going to be honest with you. I'll be 64, my next birthday. Like I've seriously thought about getting a tattoo. I have, like I have I just something about it. I kind of like both of my daughters have small tattoos and, uh, there's just something about it. That's kind of cool. Now, I wouldn't want them all over.

Speaker 1: 5:42

so what would it take? Like maybe you don't want to share it today? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I'm assuming there'd be a story behind it.

Speaker 2: 5:50

Yeah, yeah, there'd be something, a reason why Multiple stories. I'm just curious Do you mind sharing?

Speaker 1: 5:53

what you're. Sometimes it's real personal, so you don't want to share yet.

Speaker 2: 5:56

Yeah, probably not. Yet I'm not that old guy that says, oh y'all are crazy, what are you doing? That's like you know. I'd be open to thinking through this and seeing if it would be meaningful and there'd be a reason behind it. And I don't know, part of me thinks it's kind of cool.

Speaker 1: 6:18

So if you all have an idea on what tattoo Big A should get. He's going to make his own decision at the end of the day, but I'd love to hear what you all think.

Speaker 1: 6:25

I mean, you've been listening to this podcast for man almost 100 episodes now, so like you know pretty big a pretty well. What tattoo do you think he should get? If you go to go hit your email right now, go to and just send an email to pod pod at view from the topcom that's pod pod at view from the topcom and let us know what tattoo you think Big A should get and why.

Speaker 2: 6:51

I love it. I can't wait to see these replies. Give me something good. I may do it and may reveal it on this podcast. I don't know, We'll see. We'll see what happens.

Speaker 2: 6:56

Hey, let's dive into the topic today the power of perspective. Man, I don't know that there's anything more valuable in the Iron Sharpens, Iron Mastermind groups than other businessmen's perspective. There's just such power behind that. I give a lot of podcast interviews and I get the privilege of speaking around and they ask me all the time what is the most valuable asset in the mastermind? It's hands down, it's other people's perspective, because we don't know what we don't know and we can only see it one way and we've got one set of filters, one lens, Like it's the only way. Right that I was raised, that I can see it.

Speaker 2: 7:37

Not saying we can't learn, that's not what I'm saying. But when people introduce you to new perspectives and we see it from a different way, it's like I didn't even know that was a thing, Like golly, what is the possibilities of that? And I've been so blessed over the past 25 years to be around some really cool people that have really different perspectives and I think one of the skills that we're learning being a Mastermind member for all these years is our ability to listen. Like you know, you're not going to learn anything while you're talking. You need to be quiet for a minute and hear other people's perspective.

Speaker 2: 8:12

But even with that comes a couple of different things. It's optimism and pessimism. We're going to get into that just a little bit in a minute, but I want to give you a little backstory. I've said it over and over and over countless times, even on these podcasts there was one defining moment in my life as a child and my mom is instrumental in this and what she would say is when I would say the word can't. First of all, she disallowed it. She goes you can't, say can't, right, You're not going to do it.

Speaker 1: 8:42

Is that the only word? Can't? My mom's word was suck.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Okay, well, I never used the word suck around my mom. I never said that, so that's another episode, but you got can't.

Speaker 2: 8:54

But can't. And she would say can't, couldn't do it, but could did it all. And I hated it. I hated when she said that it was like mom, but you just don't understand. She goes no, you don't understand. You can do this if you choose to do this, and you've got to have the positive affirmations in your life. You've got to have people around you to encourage you, to help you. You know what's the irony of this is? I wrote a book called View from the Top and the first chapter title is Can't, couldn't Do it and Could Did it All. That's what an impact that this has made in my life. I've kind of adopted that as my life mantra. This was so ingrained in my thinking. I believe honestly, Wally, that it's really shaped every area of my life. I do, without a doubt, my mom was very instrumental in this.

Speaker 2: 9:46

Yeah, but the thing that was cool about my mom my mom's still alive. She'll be 90 years old in February. So, yeah, we built her a house next door and she lives right here on our property and we get to see her every single day. What a blessing she is in my life. But my mom then as well as now, she always looked for the good, always, it didn't matter what it was. She reminded me recently. We were having dinner together and she said do you remember that time as a child, you came in and I said something about it was raining, and she said you looked at me as a child and said, mom, that's liquid sunshine. I think back on that now, and that was a great time for me and my mom because I was able to turn it around on her. She was complaining about it raining, but I was able to couch it in a way that it made it liquid sunshine.

Speaker 2: 10:35

And so honestly, wally, I've really, by the majority not all the time, but the majority of my life I've looked for the best to happen. In my life. I have and I've had a lot of controversial things. I've had a lot of sadness. We've had a lot of things happen in our lives, but I think our perspective is really important in how we look at things, and I didn't want to look for the worst. I just didn't, and I don't now, hopefully, I'll die with the disposition of looking for the best and not the worst, and maybe it's all just wishful thinking, I don't know, but it's just the way that I personally have chose to look at life. So, Wally, how about you? How's the world look from your vantage point?

Speaker 1: 13:31

What's influenced your thinking. Yeah, you know I'm a student of this stuff myself. So, like I've, I'm a student of of evaluations and like personality profiling and and really understanding God's design for myself, and so I think God's design for me plays into it a lot, and understanding how he's created me and that influences how I see the world. And you know how I think about things, my conditions and my environment. So you know, we all grew up certain ways. You're telling stories about your mom and you have a positive right, and so I have positive things and challenging things about my childhood and, and you know those conditions, environment help us to see and the influence our thinking and and some of those things we have to work at changing as we get, as we mature, hopefully, and get older, you know, but I've also I've often been labeled a pessimist and it frankly, it ticks me off. It does Like I'm often seen as like like more negative than positive and even at times, like with you and I will be in a conversation and there's been times where you've just said why do you think so negative?

Speaker 1: 14:47

Why do you think that way? And you know I I'm not going to shoot this directly at you, but I think, in general, too many people don't actually read the dictionary and learn the definitions of things, and so if you look at what an optimist is right, let's just go there for a second. So optimists are people who believe in a positive outcome, even when things seem hopeless. They have a positive attitude towards life and they always try to see the good in things, whereas a pessimist is someone who always looks on the dark side of things, thinks about all the negative outcomes of an event or situation. They tend to dwell on this, which can be very draining for them and others around them. So I would say for myself like I don't think I fit either. I think I'm somewhere, maybe in the middle.

Speaker 2: 15:39

Oh, it's our realist.

Speaker 1: 15:40

But is that a realist? Is that what it is? I?

Speaker 2: 15:42

don't know. We're going to talk about it in a minute, because I got friends that say I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist.

Speaker 1: 15:48

Okay, well, maybe there's an excuse there, but I think that there's healthy parts of an optimist, healthy parts of an optimist, healthy parts of I don't want to say healthy parts of a pessimist, but but looking at things and being analytical and I think that you know anybody that looks at anything analytical it's so easy to say, oh, you're just being a pessimist and like, I don't think that's always true and I don't think a lot of people who think that way get labeled can get get labeled that way, and I think it's an injustice. I will say and we're going to get into this down here in our notes, I see some conversations we're going to have. I read about earlier and I will say this as you're listening to this right now that we're going to get into what are the benefits of optimism? What are the benefits of I don't want to say pessimism.

Speaker 1: 16:33

We'll talk about realism quite a bit, but it takes, you know, even some of the working genius, work that we've done around how we show up at work. So it's a, it's a work style evaluation of how you show up at work, how you go about work and right away, like you are a galvanizer, that is, that is part of your genius as a galvanizer. You did it at the beginning of this episode without even like knowing it. You're like, hey, everybody's going to go write a review and you know whatever.

Speaker 2: 17:08

Why would you think they wouldn't Right exactly. Yeah, like prove me wrong.

Speaker 1: 17:14

I would love everyone listening to this to go do that right now, but the reality is right.

Speaker 2: 17:20

If y'all love Big A, you'll go leave a review. Right now I'm just telling you don't let me down, Go leave that review. Like we're going to do another episode after we get the reviews and then Wally and I are going to talk about the value of optimism.

Speaker 1: 17:32

That's so funny, but it takes. My point in this is it takes all kinds of God's design in people. Sure, Right when we show up in our relationships. We show up, you know, our marriages, our friendships, our ministry, our work, our businesses.

Speaker 2: 17:55

I think we're going to dive into some pretty good things around life. Yeah, I want to say something in regard to what you just said. So I don't forget it we can't use God as an escape of who we are without personal and professional development getting better. We can't just say, oh, that's the way I am. Like I've got a family members that says that and I'm like, well, you know what, nobody likes you and you should change. And they're like, huh, it's like. So I agree with you, wally, and I hear what you're saying, but that doesn't give us the right or the excuse not to better ourselves and try to be something that's better for the greater good of your family.

Speaker 1: 18:33

I agree. I'm on board with that 100%.

Speaker 2: 18:36

The optimist, as you said earlier I want to break this down a little bit really does focus on the potential positive outcome, and so you said something earlier in the interview too. I want to get a little more clarity on you said. I think you did. I don't want to put words in your mouth. You said something about when people look at it more analytical. I think optimistic people can look at things analytical.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Yeah, I wasn't saying they can't, I'm just saying it's often, when people do look at things analytically, it's because I've experienced it myself, so I'm just speaking from my own experience. Right? I'm not saying that everybody that looks at things analytically can't be optimist, or?

Speaker 2: 19:18

is a pessimist.

Speaker 1: 19:19

I'm just saying in general. I've seen that happen Numbers of guys I've talked to my own experiences yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:25

Yeah, we've always been very candid on this show, so we're going to even go a little further. You really dive deep into the analytics, though. You really dive deep into the analytics, though. You're an exception to the rule in regards to the amount of data that you gather to make a decision. Is that fair to say? I mean, I'm not in everybody else's heads, but I would say that Based on your knowledge of people that you're around, I would say that I'm on, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:55

I'm definitely yeah, I go deep.

Speaker 2: 20:00

Yeah, and so that can be perceived as like how much more information do you need to go make a decision? Let's do this thing right, but let me say to your defense when you do finally pull the trigger, normally you'll have to redo it. You've done your research, all the options have been uncovered, so, as we talk through these personality traits, let's highlight the value for the business, for the individual, for the family, as well as the negative. So I don't want to throw people that are very analytical, that have that bent to feel less than, because they're not at all, and so the flip side of that, though, is like even in our relationship as friends and in a business relationship.

Speaker 1: 20:55

Our relationship as friends and in a business relationship, like I 100% recognize that there are times that we miss opportunities, right, because I get so deep and you're just optimistic about hey, let's just go, let's just do it, we'll figure it out, let's go, yeah. And so I recognize that's why it takes like if we just did that all the time, we'd be in a world of hurt If we just waited all the time we'd be in a world of hurt, Right.

Speaker 2: 21:20

Right Takes both.

Speaker 1: 21:21

Yeah, absolutely, and God's designed all of us like these ways Right, it works together.

Speaker 2: 21:28

Right, right, but we all can come and take Right. It's because, even in our relationship over an eight-year period, I feel like I've governed that a little bit. Let's giddy up and go. It's like, okay, let's think through it. And so you have come along. The other way, it's like okay, I'm going to trust you in this. You're the visionary, let's go. And so it can be very instrumental in your business. So there's a lot of really good things as a result of it.

Speaker 2: 21:55

But, however, I do want to give this one caveat. I think that the heart of the issue has to be in alignment for both people. We both have to have the right heart for the same mission, and then we trust each other's heart. It's like, no, I know really. He wants good for the organization. He wants ordinary men to become extraordinary in every area. He wants to grow personally, professionally, spiritually. All those things are a given. And now we've got to figure out okay, what is it that's holding you back? Why can't we go? What I don't want people to do is to have that potential, for everything is going to suck or be bad or it's not going to work, like that would drain me. You don't do that. You don't do that. It's like you're calculated and that can be misconstrued sometimes as you're not as excited or you're not in favor of doing it. It just takes a minute longer to get there. Go ahead.

Speaker 1: 22:53

Sorry, finish your thought. No, no, I'm done. I will say like, if you've got an eternal optimist at the helm any part of your business, if you have an eternal optimist that can't self-correct or with some guidance, like coming back to center a little bit, like you're going to be in trouble If you have an eternal pessimist, you need to figure out how to get them out of your business right now, like now that's your business. If you've got relationships, that's a little trickier. Yes, here's a word of caution.

Speaker 2: 23:30

This has nothing to do with our interview, but when you said it it reminded me of something. You said you need to get rid of them quickly. A friend of mine, cody, owns Advisors XL in Topeka, kansas. They're a very, very large company. I interviewed him several years ago and I think they were at $8 billion top-line revenue and I said what would you do differently if you had it to go over? And immediately. He never hesitated, he never blinked. He said I would get rid of difficult people sooner. And they have 400 and some odd employees.

Speaker 2: 24:00

And it goes to your point. It's like if they're pessimist and they're everything, the sky's falling. You know, it's like we got to deal with this, like we got to deal with it. Are you going to be fighting that forever? Back to you, though, the thing that I kind of I'm not labeling you realist. I think realist kind of fits for you, though it's like you're not a pessimist and you're not an eternal optimist. Your motives are good, a realist, but I'm like I like controversial things too, so I put out some messages to our community and even ask some questions. Is this really a nice way to accept failure, or maybe is this an excuse for a lack of effort and you're putting that ability for it not to work kind of on the table and it's like well see, I told you, I told you if we didn't, or yep, that's what I thought was going to happen. So how do you balance that, wally?

Speaker 1: 25:05

Yeah, I think it's. I think it's the indecision that gets you in trouble. If you're a realist and indecision, then you're really a pessimist.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Right, so a pessimist a realist is a person who believes very strongly in being grounded in reality, not swinging too much toward optimism or pessimism. A realist is more likely to be objective about situations and can solve problems, planning for both positive and negative outcomes. So there's action involved in that, and so, as a realist, there's still challenges. There's action involved in that, and so, as a realist, there's still challenges. We all have challenges, we all have things right, but I think that there is that middle ground of being a realist. So you can be. You know, if you're going to create three categories, generally speaking, there's optimist, realist and pessimist you fall in one of those three if you're listening to this episode.

Speaker 2: 25:59

Hey, for those that are not watching, I just put on my favorite hat and it says optimist right across the front. I love it. It's my favorite hat and it doesn't fit me that well, but it reminds me on a regular basis.

Speaker 1: 26:12

No, I'm kidding, it used to fit. When I had hair it fit, but now it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 26:19

It's adjustable too, by the way. So if my head gets bigger, I can adjust it, but I'm optimistic that it's not going to there you go. I want to ask you, kind of generically speaking from the community side and we're making some assumptions here and I don't want to do that. I got to be careful, but I posted on our Facebook kind of about this question and one of the followers of mine he's a great guy, but he said that in his opinion, optimists think they're better than everyone else. It's like well, why did he say that? And I went back to him and made some comments and I said well, why do you say that? Like, I don't feel like I'm better than anybody. I feel like my views are different, but that doesn't make me better. Do you see that, wally? Do you see optimists being placed in a category of they think they're superior or better than other people?

Speaker 1: 27:16

Yeah, and without you saying that, I wouldn't have thought more deeply about this. But I think, where someone who's analytical can go to the negative, so like me, I'm often labeled by people as being a pessimist or just being pessimistic, and it's like, well, okay, like sure. There are times I do, we're all human, right but more often than not, it's actually not. Not not pessimism for me, but it's. It looks like that Well for you, right, as you're an optimist. And if there's an, there's an unhealthy side of being an optimist, sure, and so someone who, like thinks that their way, like this is what's going to happen, and just like their way is their way, and like, yeah, if they're unhealthy in that, for sure. But I would think that the person that feels that way probably had some bad experiences with some optimists and you know, like they have some of their own self-confidence issues. Maybe I'm judging that Like, I don't know this person Possibly, we don't know yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:18

So I'm just saying like, though, like I think there's probably you know, cause, yeah, there's a reality that it's like man, like when, when, just with you, when you're like, hey, we're going to do this, or you know, we're going to do this, here's the vision, we're going to do this thing, and and there's some of that that's like you're just so positive about it. It's like can we look at reality for a second, but you don't. It is reality in my head, though. That's the problem.

Speaker 1: 28:44

You don't want to, not that you don't want to, but like you're moving beyond that, and I think I could take on a negative attitude and be like, well, he just thinks that he's, you know, got the answer and he's better than everybody else. That he's, you know, got the answer and he's better than everybody else. I think it comes down to like if we think that about other people, it's our responsibility to ask if that's their motive, like and I'm sure that there's optimists that that's their motive, and there's probably a lot that aren't right that's not their motive, they just that's how they're wired.

Speaker 2: 29:14

Wally, do you think, there again, we're making a lot of assumptions here because there's no data to support a lot of what we're saying outside of our experience? Do you think there's value in the optimism, in pushing the ball across the line though, greater potential for success with an optimistic view rather than strictly data-driven? Or you know, nothing's worked in my life and so I don't see this working. It's not karma, but do you believe it does give you the extra propulsion to get the ball out of the red zone into the end zone?

Speaker 1: 29:57

100%, 100%, like, 100%, and I hate to beat this and it sounds like we made this up on purpose. But just going back to the whole review thing, but by you getting on the beginning and saying, hey, we're going to like, everybody's going to do this, why wouldn't they? Right, it's like, oh yeah, okay, I can go do that. And then Wally says, well, probably not everyone's going to do it. And they're like, well, I'm one of those, I'm not going to go do it, so it's like, yeah, like, if that's what we lead with right Now.

Speaker 1: 30:26

The difference is we're talking about optimism and pessimism today, and it was an example that was easy to use it, right, yeah, and so, like, like, as even a realist, there are times when that galvanizer, that optimist, like, they definitely need those in our lives. Right, we, we need those in the pulpit. They're speaking truth, but we need those in a pulpit. We need, we need people in business and leaders that are optimistic. Politics, business rarely, rarely, do you find a leader who's more on the realistic, like, like, face forward leader, right, right, that's more realist on the realism or definitely not the pessimism scale. Right, that's just the the realistic or realism type person is going to be the one that's going to be like doing the work, moving the cogs right, that person that's out front leading the charge. They have to be an optimist, they have to be.

Speaker 2: 31:29

Wally, let me talk directly to the listener for a second and let me just tell you from experience and I know you'll chime in on this as well. Second, and let me just tell you from experience and I know you'll chime in on this as well we miss great opportunities with our children when they're young to encourage them, similar to what my mom did maybe not to that extreme, but I think we're helping develop the personalities of our children. And if we're always that dad that points out the ground ball that your son missed, or you're pointing out to your daughter you could do better in gymnastics than you did if you would, I think we got to be really careful to reward their effort, not make it contingent on their performance for them, but to say I've noticed how hard you really worked in the field and I want you to know I'm proud of you. Say I've noticed how hard you really worked in the field and I want you to know I'm proud of you. It's building that confidence in them and saying I know with a little more work you can be amazing if you'll do this. And I just so commend my mom.

Speaker 2: 32:30

For so long when we were young, we didn't have any money. We didn't have anything. It wasn't about that. It was about she wanted the effort. We didn't have anything. It wasn't about that. It was about she wanted the effort. She wanted me to put forth the effort. And she told me if you do these things, you will succeed. You will accomplish these things. So it instills in our children. So if you're listening to this today, we can't undo what you've done up until this point, but you can start fresh and anew today. You can go today and tell your little Susie or Billy hey, I'm so proud of your efforts and I know with this you can continue to grow and flourish and be better.

Speaker 2: 33:05

There's so many dads down there that we've noticed beat their kids down to a point that they can't be anything but pessimistic. They're like man. I've never been told I was good. My dad never told me he loved me. He never complimented me on how well I did. Man, don't be guilty of being that parent. I just want to encourage you today that you can help build this optimistic mindset within your children if you'll take the time Same way with your spouse. Don't always be looking for the thing that your wife burnt while she was cooking, but compliment, that's the best roast beef I've ever ate right. It builds that sense of confidence within them. You're optimistic about what's going to take place. As a result of that, I just want to encourage you to think through the way you're leading your family today and make sure you're doing it in a way that's going to grow them, to give them the best opportunity for the future.

Speaker 2: 34:00

So another one of the comments that this guy said he said that an optimist has a lot to say about our faith. He said it also does being a pessimist. I don't want to belabor the point here, but I think it goes back to your attitude, the way you look at things, what you're in hopes of. And you know we're a Christian organization, so we talk a lot about faith and we want to have the total reliance and the dependency on Christ and really walk with him and be obedient, and we can do that with an optimistic outlook. Not, hey, nothing's ever going to go good for me. I'm never going to be blessed. If it can go bad, the shoe's going to fall. That's the mindset that we're encouraging you not to have. Is that pessimistic type of disposition and attitude?

Speaker 1: 34:55

Yeah, I think the idea of thinking about optimistic and think about optimism, you could even from a biblical perspective, right? Is that it comes down to hope, right? Like hope, hope creates a positive response and it should in you, right? If? If not, then you probably have no hope, um, and therefore you're probably a pessimist, if you like. How can you have hope and be a pessimist? That doesn't make sense, yeah, no it's such a contradiction yeah so I think it does.

Speaker 2: 35:32

It does directly impact you spiritually, impact us spiritually 100 you know, we talked about earlier in the episode a little bit about leveraging the strengths of both dispositions. If they're present in your environment, Wally, what impact do you think these traits have on like team morale or company culture? You've had a company that had 40, 50 employees. We have a small team now there's about 10, and then we have about 11 or 12 facilitators in our organization, so let's call it 25 people. How do you think these strengths that you and I possess and they are both strengths how does that impact our team morale and company culture?

Speaker 1: 36:20

Let me give you some examples. When I I'm more of a realist and when I was leading my company, I was responsible for casting vision and I did fairly good at that. That type of company and I did fairly good at that. That type of company. We were on an incline in sales and momentum. So for my personality, that was easier for me to cast vision in that season of business and so I was able to do that. It was a little more work for me because I can do both. I can be that kind of visionary integrator, but it's still harder for me to be the visionary. I could do it. So in that business I did it fairly well.

Speaker 1: 37:05

Well, it got to the point where, uh, you know me being out front and and kind of being the, the, trying to be the optimist because I'm a realist, I couldn't carry that well as we grew as a business. And so I remember one of my team leaders coming in one time and saying, hey, uh, you know, instead of getting on our team rallies which was we did that once a month where everybody got on, got on, uh, um, you know, zoom meeting, and this is before zoom was popular, but uh, this is before before a remote working was popular and we all did remote working. So anyway, uh, we'd get on, we'd get on a call and we'd have a team rally and we'd have fun with it. We'd like do quizzes and like about things in our business and give away, you know, gifts, gift certificates and stuff and and uh, it was fun and I enjoyed doing that part. But as we grew, I I I continued for a while to like to, to try to be the one speaking about the other areas of our business, so marketing and sales and customer service and development, product development. And one of our team leaders said to me one time he's like, hey, what if? What if us as team leaders started taking that over? Because, like we hear you, but like it you're not coming across as an optimist. You're coming across as a realist because you're not so tight into what we're doing, right, like you have this knowledge, but but you don't have like kind of the insider scoop necessarily. And so once we started doing that, I played my role as a realist and as a visionary, like I could do that really well for certain things in the business and that that helped them. Our momentum as a business start to leap forward? Actually, where, when?

Speaker 1: 38:53

So I think the point that I'm trying to make is like I think the point that I'm trying to make is like, as a leader in your business, even as a leader in your home, you you may be the more realist and your wife may be the optimist Leverage that like work together in your home for the sake of your children. Right Like learn how to, how to get get better, learn how to do some things. So your point like don't just rest down. Well, this is how I am Right. Like like do something hard.

Speaker 1: 39:21

Right, like you're not going to change who you are in your core, uh, your natural leanings, but you can create new habits. You can. You can train your brain to create new habits. And so in business, in our homes, I think, for me, around the culture, around, like you know, just having people around us and morale, knowing who we are, and leveraging that. Well, if I show, if I, if I force that and I continue to show up and try to be the guy doing that thing, it would have hurt morale, it wouldn't have increased it.

Speaker 2: 40:00

But I had to actually get out of the way a little bit right. You were not operating within your skill set, you were outside of your zone of genius. And a word that came to my mind as you were describing that and I'm going to throw the word out there for a second that I think it's important. I think it's important. A lot of you might not and don't hear me wrong on this word but I think there needs to be a level of enthusiasm. In order to be an effective optimist galvanizer leader, there has to be some sense of enthusiasm. People want to follow someone and they want to do it enthusiastically, that they want the person to be excited about the vision. They want people to say we can do this. I know it's going to be hard, but we can do this. There's no doubt in my mind. If we forge our efforts together, we can accomplish this, and so the vast majority of optimistic, galvanizing-type leaders. There's an area for enthusiasm and it's contagious, and I think it's necessary.

Speaker 1: 41:09

I will give a word of caution, though, about that.

Speaker 2: 41:12

Not everything, right, yeah, not on everything. But here's my word of caution Use it when it matters.

Speaker 1: 41:17

I've been involved in organizations before in my past where the leader was so optimistic that nothing they ever said came true.

Speaker 2: 41:28

No, no, I agree with you.

Speaker 1: 41:30

And it's like that's terrible leadership too.

Speaker 2: 41:33

Yes, it is Right, yes, it is.

Speaker 1: 41:34

Yeah. And so if you're that leader where you just like have an idea a minute and spit it out there and like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and everybody's going to get raises and like the world's awesome now.

Speaker 2: 41:46

Yeah, and like they lose respect for you, yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:48

It's terrible, right so.

Speaker 2: 41:50

Yes.

Speaker 1: 41:50

I think it's that being mindful of the good traits of being an optimist.

Speaker 2: 42:01

Right of the good traits of being an optimist, right, wally? How do you think this personality trait affects our level of stress? How do we combat levels of stress? And I know that in the past I've been very, very stressed about certain circumstances and situations and I have to dig deep and it's like, okay, you know what, though, I'm convinced this is going to get better. I think for me that there's got to be this self talk. There's got to be a level of enthusiasm about the future being bright, because when I do get in a rut, to be honest with you and I've hit the wall a few times over my career, 45 years in business If you're listening to this and you haven't been in a rut, you're going to get in one.

Speaker 2: 42:43

Just learn how to get out of it. But it's really really bad, Like when an eternal optimist does hit the wall. It's bad and so you've got to be mindful of that and how that you can work through that and get yourself out, because an eternal optimist feels like a distinct failure when they do finally get there where they're like it's not going to get any better, and so it's like 100x probably times what most people feel like it's devastating when they finally do get to that. But have you ever thought about that disposition affecting you personally in regards to your ability to deal with stress?

Speaker 1: 43:26

No, I guess I really haven't.

Speaker 2: 43:31

Yeah, I talk myself out of it and I'll tell you, every time that I get into those positions, what I do for me is I journal things I'm grateful for, mm-hmm, and nine out of 10 times it gets me out of it. It's like, man, it's not that bad. And then I start thinking about pages of things to be optimistic about and grateful for, and thankful for, and it's like I've been in these situations before and I am going to get through this. But I've talked to family members and other people that's like, oh, there's no way, there's nothing that's going to happen. They're going to bankrupt, they're going to take my car, they're going to come get my house, my wife's going to leave me and I'm like wait a minute.

Speaker 1: 44:11

Hold on. Well, if that's what they believe, that's what will happen, right?

Speaker 1: 44:14

Well, that's my point, that's why it's so important to am, I would say I don't use that word. I wouldn't use the word optimistic, I would use hopeful. And you talk about gratitude, man, when you said that I'm like, oh yeah, like you talked about stress and like I don't see it as I see, like being hopeful, that's how I, that's how I look at it. So when you say that I'm like, in your words it doesn't quite make sense, but as you're talking, I'm reframing it in my own words and it's like, oh yeah, it makes perfect sense. Like I do the same thing, I just think about it differently.

Speaker 2: 44:53

Yeah, it's just different words, right, right, you think six layers deeper than that.

Speaker 1: 44:57

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 44:58

Right, you just do, you just work through it, wally. Last question how do we get to a place to where we understand for ourselves what matters most in regards to our attitude? If you're a leader in your home, you're a small business owner, how do you decide what even matters most as a result of adopting one of these mindsets?

Speaker 1: 45:27

We've talked before about core values and kind of what you believe to be true about your life and about yourself. And we talked about what do we want. We've talked about that before many times and you can actually go to viewfromthetopcom slash what do I want and you can get plugged into the what I want challenge. So we've talked about those things and I think, not knowing like some of those core things about yourself, it's difficult to know what really matters most to you. But I would say for most guys you know they want to find success in their business, they want to be successful in their families. And maybe you found some success and you're like, oh, this is great, but it doesn't scratch the itch like I thought it would. And then it becomes about significance. And so now we're striving toward significance and I think that if we're honest about what's going on in our lives and that we're going to pretty quickly find out what matters most to us, if we just take a moment and take inventory, we're going to know. And then we got to decide from there, like do I want to be that person that's always that down? Or, like you were talking about the guy earlier, like I resonate with that person that's always that down, or like you were talking about the guy earlier. Like I resonate with that.

Speaker 1: 46:48

I think back to my daughters and praise God that I let God change that about my life earlier raising my daughters than later, and so I was guilty of that in the beginning, right, you know, and why? Why is that? Because it's selfish when they come off the court. It's not about them looking bad, it's about you looking bad, if you're really honest about it. Right, it's not about them. They're out there having a great time learning how to get better and having fun and like you're sitting in the stands wondering what people are thinking about your kid, because that seems like some weird reflection on you and it's like get over yourself. I had to get over myself, and so that was something that mattered to me, because I was paying attention.

Speaker 2: 47:27

Well, you know what's really important, and I'm glad that you recognize that, because you have three amazing daughters, three amazing son-in-laws and beautiful grandchildren. You did a remarkable job, you and Sonia both, so way to go, y'all did great. I do want to offer a word of caution as we end. Today, it's not just you that people are watching. It's the people that are around you. It's the way you're handling these dynamics. You're the filter for your children, your business partners, your colleagues, the people that work for you. They're drawing to some conclusion as a result of the way you're behaving, and so it's not just for your own selfish motives, but take on the responsibility of being that dad and that husband and that leader in your community that could further the cause for other people in a very positive way. Not, hey, that's the guy like sucks the life out of the room. Nobody wants to be around him. The sky's falling. You don't want to be that guy. You want to be the guy that brings life to the room, the energy people that bring good ideas and strategies, and people that really do think through things at a high level, that can help you make better decisions. And so it's not just about our personal preferences. It's about our leadership style and our leadership skills in life.

Speaker 2: 48:54

Well, listen, while as we end today's episode, I got just a few things I want to offer you up as a challenge. I want you to think through, like am I a realist? Is that what I am? And have I got the ability to think through the analytics at a very high level, yet still be optimistic and hopeful for the outcome? Or are you calling yourself that realist and it's really just a convenient way to justify some inaction or that fear of failure?

Speaker 2: 49:24

Many of you out there today are optimists and you're seen as visionaries and encouragers and you want to lead the charge. Maybe this is driving your team towards these ambitious goals, and that's what our hope is. But you better be careful, because this relentlessness of your positivity could be the worst thing for them if some of these things are not coming to fruition. So I want you to be mindful. Use it when it's appropriate, be that visionary, be excited, use that enthusiasm that we talked about when it's necessary, and listen.

Speaker 2: 49:57

I just want to say straight up quit being a pessimist. If you're a pessimist, right, we don't want to do that. They pride themselves on being prepared for the very worst, but is their cautious approach just a mask for indecision, and I want to tell you that there's really not a real good place for pessimistic tendencies. So I want to encourage you today lean towards the optimism, lean towards being a realist in your life. At the end of the day, you get to decide for yourself where you land, and what I do know is you, and only you, get to choose, and the reason that we want you to choose wisely is so that you too can have that view from the top.

Speaker 1: 50:41

Hey, thanks again for listening in today, joining us, hopefully, in this conversation, and I hope it spurred some interesting and some thoughts that you can take action on for yourself. Hey, I'm so excited. I don't know if you've heard about this or not, listening on a previous podcast, but I just want to let you be aware we are excited about this really cool thing that was recently launched in the ISI ecosystem atmosphere. Whatever you want to call it, it's called the ISI community. So you can go to viewfromthetopcom slash community that's viewfromthetopcom slash community and then check it out.

Speaker 1: 51:19

So what's going on there is we've got a whole bunch of guys coming in joining together, leaning into. Every month. We're meeting together discussing a topic similar to topics that we talked to you about on this podcast. But you get to join the conversation, you get to be part of that every month, so you get to not only learn other perspectives, but you get to give your perspective and you get to share with others so they can learn from you. So please do that. Go to viewfromthetopcom slash community, check out more there and, man, we happy to answer any questions you have about that there on that page. So check it out, viewfromthetopcom slash community, and we will see you on the pod next week.