Join Joe and Nat on this heartfelt episode where they delve into the complexities of men's emotions and vulnerability.
In a world that often generalizes, Joe and Nat break down the walls to explore why men act the way they do and how, with empathy and understanding, women can foster a space for emotional growth and a deeper connection with a man.
🍷 Grab a Glass of Vino and Dive In!
Amidst laughter and candid conversations, the hosts share personal stories and experiences, unraveling the layers of societal expectations that shape men's behavior. Discover the power of creating a safe haven for men to express their feelings, fostering healthier connections and relationships.
💖 Why It Matters for Women Over 50: Navigating Midlife Challenges Together
As a woman over 50, you've likely encountered various challenges in relationships, and understanding the emotional landscape of men can be a game-changer. Explore the pivotal role of communication and compassion in nurturing emotional wellness for both partners.
🌟 Key Takeaways:
Learn the importance of providing a safe space for men to open up.
Understand the impact of societal expectations on men's emotional expression.
Discover how fostering emotional growth can enhance relationships and overall well-being.
Tune in to this enlightening episode, as Joe and Nat share insights that transcend generations, providing a roadmap for creating deeper connections and healthier relationships. Because just like fine wine, life (and relationships) can truly get better with age.
_______________________________________________________________________________________ Feel free to contact us with any questions/comments you may have about this episode via email at Joe@thelovementors.com or Natalie@thelovementors.com.
Join Joe and Nat on this heartfelt episode where they delve into the complexities of men's emotions and vulnerability.
In a world that often generalizes, Joe and Nat break down the walls to explore why men act the way they do and how, with empathy and understanding, women can foster a space for emotional growth and a deeper connection with a man.
🍷 Grab a Glass of Vino and Dive In!
Amidst laughter and candid conversations, the hosts share personal stories and experiences, unraveling the layers of societal expectations that shape men's behavior. Discover the power of creating a safe haven for men to express their feelings, fostering healthier connections and relationships.
💖 Why It Matters for Women Over 50: Navigating Midlife Challenges Together
As a woman over 50, you've likely encountered various challenges in relationships, and understanding the emotional landscape of men can be a game-changer. Explore the pivotal role of communication and compassion in nurturing emotional wellness for both partners.
🌟 Key Takeaways:
Learn the importance of providing a safe space for men to open up.
Understand the impact of societal expectations on men's emotional expression.
Discover how fostering emotional growth can enhance relationships and overall well-being.
Tune in to this enlightening episode, as Joe and Nat share insights that transcend generations, providing a roadmap for creating deeper connections and healthier relationships. Because just like fine wine, life (and relationships) can truly get better with age.
_______________________________________________________________________________________ Feel free to contact us with any questions/comments you may have about this episode via email at Joe@thelovementors.com or Natalie@thelovementors.com.
And this is Nat and you're listening to the Getting Better With Age podcast to show that helps you navigate midlife challenges and turn them into opportunities to grow and evolve into a happier, healthier and more empowered you.
Joe:
And remember, getting older doesn't mean that the best years have to be behind you. We believe, like a fine wine, you and your life can get better with age, and we're here to show you exactly how to do that.
Nat:
So grab a glass of vino, kick off your shoes and join us in discovering how to make the next chapter of your life the best one yet. Hello everyone it is Joe and it's Nat. Welcome back to Getting Better With Age. We're here again. How you doing Joe.
Joe:
I'm doing great. Wifey. What's going on with you? How are you feeling?
Nat:
I am feeling good, I'm feeling really good.
Joe:
All over the vid All over the vid.
Nat:
It was very minor, as you know. Yes, yeah, that's over. That's done with moving forward.
Joe:
And I'm happy because I didn't get the vid.
Nat:
You're the only one who got it. I'm the only one in the house that got it.
Joe:
Well, it's kind of the opposite right. Didn't you know, two years ago, we all got it and you didn't? No, I had it.
Nat:
Oh, you did, Just Daniel didn't.
Joe:
Oh OK.
Nat:
No, Daniel and Mikey didn't.
Joe:
Oh, OK, All right, I stand corrected. I'm man enough to understand that. You know I'm wrong, so I'll take that.
Nat:
Anyway, that aside we are, I want to talk about something that's important to me, because I feel that In today's world society, men tend to get a bad rap, and today I want you to think. Yeah, yeah, I think they do, and I don't want anybody to start yelling at me patriarchy dah dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah dah because this is not what it's about.
Joe:
You know there's some listeners going, are you? Are you fucking kidding me? Men, get a bad rap. Do you know the shit that they're doing?
Nat:
I know, listen, there is good and bad in everything. Yeah, good and bad men, good and bad women, good and bad everything. So let's, let's talk about. What I want to talk about is kind of getting into the mind of a man and why they do what they do.
Joe:
Well, you know, before we do that, I think it's important to shine the light, because you know this labeling and this generalizing like bad men, good men, bad women, good women. You know, what I know to be true at this story is we are all inherently good, we are born good, but then there's this thing called life that happens, which very often causes a lot of people to men and women to become wounded, and it's the emotional scars and wounds that caused him to behave in a certain way. And that behavior. We can judge it as good or bad, but I think it's important to judge the behavior and not the person, and to see that person through the eyes of God, the divine, and go okay, is this person really bad or is it their behavior? Bad because of what they've went through?
Joe:
And I know that may sound like a subtle difference, but it really is huge because, you know, I was one of the most judgmental people in the face of the earth and I've learned in my journey, instead of judging people, to really see them through the lens of empathy, compassion, like why does this person behave this way? What's going on? That doesn't mean if you're single and you see someone who acts, you know, in an unhealthy or a negative selfish jerk, whatever. That doesn't mean that you have to sit and continue to dialogue with them and invest in a relationship.
Joe:
You have every right to say you know what? You're not the kind of person I want to be around or being a relationship with, so I'm out of here. But it's important not to generalize, because what happens is we then go on social media what's wrong with men? And start dialoguing with your friend Joe. Men suck and there's no good ones, and that is really, really, really dangerous.
Nat:
Yes, and again, like we're not telling you to like give all men a pass. No, that's not what we're saying. I think if we look into why people do what they do, why men do what they do, I think it'll be easier to navigate dating and relationships and marriages. And I think the important thing to know is and like Joe said too, everybody is inherently good, but we all have stuff that we've accumulated over time, and especially midlife right.
Joe:
Because it's been a long time.
Nat:
There's a lot of stuff to accumulate and here's the thing like Joe and I have both done a lot of work on ourselves and had we not, our marriage and relationship could have gone in a very different direction.
Joe:
Absolutely.
Nat:
But because of our commitment to each other and our marriage and our kids, we made sure that we did what we had to do. Rin national anthem. I think that's what you know is a challenge, because the way men were brought up, they are not open to maybe doing the work, being vulnerable, working on their stuff, admitting their stuff, and I think that's one of the challenges.
Joe:
Yeah, you know, there's this great article. It's called the Silence of Men and I read it several years ago and it really paints a great picture of men's behavior. Because if you think about it, like guys are brought up into this world, you know very, and if we come back, like from our generation, you know the strict Italian fathers or European fathers, or you know fathers who are very, very masculine, who don't show a lot of emotion, don't show a lot of feeling, right, aren't very vulnerable, and it's like like this is what it's like to be a man. And as I remember with my dad, it's like, you know, stop crying, like if I was getting emotional, stop crying, you know. And it's like, and you kind of become detached from your feelings. It's like, wait a minute, I'm not supposed to feel. And then you grow up in a world like what are you? A wuss, you know pussy, you know, suck it up. And big boys don't cry.
Joe:
And so we're indoctrinated as this world and we're not really taught to express our feelings and to be vulnerable and to deal with our emotion. So we kind of like just push them aside and then we go through life learning well, this is what it's like to be a man and then you go through life and then all of a sudden you're in a relationship and a woman says, well, you know why can't you show, talk about your feelings, you know why can't you be vulnerable? And it's like, are you kidding me? My whole life I've been brainwashed with not being, and so you have to see a man through that lens and again, that's not justifying, it's not, it's not giving him a pass. It's like, hey, if you want to understand, because the worst thing to do is make a man feel worse because he's not able to express his feeling, because you're actually condemning him and making him feel wrong. And anytime you you criticize someone, they automatically go into fight or flight. So they're automatically going to get defensive and start, you know, coming back at you or they're going to emotionally check out.
Joe:
So I know there in a lot of you who are single or in dating, it's like you know what you want to get a man to be vulnerable and all of a sudden you start pushing him to before he's ready and you make him feel wrong and you, you scare him away and he checks out and then you're like I don't understand, I just wanted him to talk about his feelings. It's like, yes, but you were, you were forcing your will on him instead of getting into his world, creating the space where he feels it's okay and it's safe to open up and share his feelings, because we do. You know as much as men saying well, that's not me, that's not who I am. It's bullshit, because we're all. We all have feelings. And when a man learns to truly honor and discuss and talk about feelings, knowing that it's safe, knowing that he's not going to be criticized or made wrong, that gives him more of permission to be his true self and there's so much freedom in that. But it's so opposite to how most men have been taught.
Nat:
Yeah, and it's sad because you know, there are many women in marriages and relationships and they're like, well, I tried and my husband or my boyfriend doesn't want to go to therapy, and then I don't know what else to do. And it's like, well, you can't go all these years where he's acting a certain way and you're not doing anything about it, to all of a sudden saying, okay, we need therapy Because, like Joe said, like they're not there yet and that's okay. But the conversation and the communication needs to start about where do we go from here at this point that we're at now.
Joe:
Right and that's really important to understand is because it's like an addiction, right. An addict won't ask for help until they realize that, hey, I am an addict and being an addict is causing problems in my life. So if a man's been a certain way and he's created that kind of identity and personality to protect himself and get through the world, and you come out now after putting up with it for years or months in a relationship and go, okay, well, you need to change. He's like, well, this has kind of been working for me and he doesn't realize it. And sometimes it takes a woman walking away, a marriage being you know, a marriage ending, for a man to go, oh shit, like you know what my behavior contributed to this. And that's when a man the light will go off and say, hey, you know what, I've got to do some work. And I agree with you 100 percent Because I've had a lot of clients who have been in relationships previously with men like that and I've even in the very beginning, worked with some men and it's very, very difficult for men to open up and to be vulnerable and talk about their feelings in the beginning, especially if they don't have an environment that is safe, because that's a whole scary world.
Joe:
It's like, well, I'm going to go into this world and now talk about my feelings and what is the world going to think of me? And I'm going to get attacked and made fun of and I'm going to call a wuss and I'm going to have to wear a dress and like all this stuff, all this fears, which is just the perceptions, the belief that a guy has in his head, but they're real to him. So if you're a woman, no matter what you may think, it's not about what you think, is about what he's feeling. So if you can have that loving conversation to really see him through the eyes of love and get into his world, like, why is it difficult for you to share your feelings? And it's like like a dance where you lead and you lead and you lead, you'll create the space more and more for him to open up and lead him to the space where he's like you know what you're right. I think I do need to work on this and he'll see.
Joe:
Because ultimately and this is the thing that I want every woman to understand is that if a man truly cares about you and loves you, if he sees that he's not being the partner that you deserve and it's hurting you or causing you problems. That man is going to change because he wants to for himself, because he's no, he knows he's not being the man that you deserve. That's a man who's emotionally healthy and emotionally available. There are some guys who will go. Well, you know what? It's not me, it's you. Get over it that that guy, no matter what you say or do, he's just not ready and he will never be the partner you desire until he has some kind of wake up call or his life ends. But that's not your job to get him there.
Nat:
Yeah, no, I was actually going to say that. You took the words right out of my mouth. If a man truly loves you and he truly wants to be with you and spend his life with you, he's going to know that he's hurting you. He's going to see that he's hurting you and he's going to want to. You know, make it right.
Joe:
Right, you know it's something you said earlier. You know about men getting bad at rap and it really you know it's. I'm going to say piss me off, but it's like you know what. There's so many good guys out there who are wonderful husbands, who are wonderful fathers, who sacrifice, who you know, even older generation generation. I always say, look, look at your dad, you know. Look, look what he did for your mom. You know your mom had dementia for like seven years.
Nat:
Not, yeah, nine, seven, nine years.
Joe:
Yeah, right, but when she got to the point where, like, she didn't recognize your father, like you know, it was it was many years.
Joe:
Right. So he didn't recognize it, but his love for her, even though she didn't recognize, even though she wasn't doing anything for him and she was making his life more challenging probably the most challenging life can be yet he was by her side, made sure she had the best, loved her and the day she made her transition, the love that he expressed to her like go be free, we'll be together again and it was just absolutely beautiful and it's like and here's somebody who grew up in that generation- yeah.
Joe:
Right, and didn't you know? Your dad isn't the most lovey-dovey, you know, emotional person, but that's inherently who he was and in those moments he expressed his love the best way he could, and I think to understand that every man, every person, has that love within them.
Nat:
Right.
Joe:
But they'll release it when they feel safe, when they have that desire in their heart too, and that's their journey.
Nat:
Yeah, and here's the thing a good man will also be there for you and he will help you with your responsibilities. You know I hear so many women complain about oh, my husband sits on his ass and I'm doing all the Christmas shopping and I'm doing the food shopping and I'm doing this and I'm doing that. Well, did you let him get away with it this whole time? I mean, I, when I was growing up, I saw my father help my mother. He would help her with laundry, he would go food shopping, so he did things to contribute, even though he was. You know, he worked full time, obviously, and you know my mother was a stay at home mom, but he's still chipped in and to get mad because they don't. But when you let him get away with it for all this time, like well, that's crazy.
Nat:
And like those are things that are established from the beginning, like Joe always helped me with. You know food shopping and laundry and the kids, and you know like I used to get mad when people would say, oh, I have to. When you know, if the girl was going out and the father, the dad would be like, oh, I have to babysit tonight for the kids. I'd be like, and no, you're not babysitting, you're being a father.
Joe:
Oh, my God, I have to spend time with my children. Well, you know, I think the key is to understand is that, like it's inherently who you are Right. Like I like helping my wife, I like being there to do things to make her life better or easier when I can. Like that's not my whole life, like I don't stop my life, I don't stop my responsibilities, but if there's something I can do where I know, hey, you know what if babysitting the kids because you were stressed out and you needed a night out with the baby sitting right.
Joe:
Well, whatever, just spending time with my children enabled you to go out and have a good time with the girls. It's like, yeah, sure, go out, have a good time. But you know, the point is that it's who you are, and I think you hit the nail on the head. Is that, 95% of the time, that's who a guy is? In the very beginning, I had one of the women that we mentioned. She was dating a guy before we started working together and she's like, yeah, I'd be out shoveling the snow and he'd be up lying in bed. And I'm like a did you ask him for help? And B why didn't you say, hey, I need help, come down and get out of bed and help me shovel? Or C why don't you say you know what I'm done?
Joe:
Like, I want a man who's going to be a partner, and why did you continue to stay with him? And so it's about taking responsibility and saying you know what? Is this? The right partner? Is that the kind of and you know the partner that you desire? Because I think it. You know it's not a husband, it's what, it's a life partner. I was like this is someone you're going through life with and this is someone that's going to help you and you're going to help them. It's like a tennis match where you're pitching, you know, and catching, hitting the ball back and forth, working together to get through this thing called life, where it's not no, it's just about me. I'm tired, I work today, I can't pitch in no. We all have moments where we get, we have to sacrifice, but not because we have to, because we want to. And and there's BS that there are guys out there who are selfish, who can't do that. No, are there some guys like that? 1000%, oh, absolutely Right.
Nat:
But again, we're not giving everybody a pay.
Joe:
Yeah, those are guys that I, that we suggest you don't have relationships with. And if you're in a relationship with someone like that and you're carrying all the weight, you might want to look at that Because also it's your relationship, is the reflection of your choices and decisions. So, if you choose to stay with someone, for whatever reason, who is dropping the ball and not being the partner that you desire, stop blaming them. Okay, you're, as Natalie said, you're allowing them to get away with it. Take responsibility and say either you know I'm choosing to settle or you know what I'm done with this. I deserve better and walk away Right.
Nat:
So let me ask you a question, because you're a man and you know we have three boys and we are raising them to be them to be honest, respectful, trustworthy and vulnerable. Like it's okay to cry in our house and we tell them that it's okay to cry. We let them know it's okay to share your feelings. But again, many men of course our generation were not taught that and you said your father would say that to you. You know, don't cry, men, don't cry. So just to help the people listening, how was that journey for you and learning that it was okay to be vulnerable and okay to share your feelings, and how did you learn that? And how could a woman start that conversation with her partner?
Joe:
Right. Well, I think as much as my dad was at Italian hard ass, there were moments where I did see him. I remember the very first one. I was five years old. He had a heart attack and now so he was 35 at the time and I walked into the hospital and I saw him and he just hugged me and he just started weeping. And at that moment I learned, oh, it's okay to cry, because that in that moment my dad was being his true, vulnerable self, like he wasn't thinking. And what I understand now is those moments.
Joe:
I remember one as we're talking. We were playing baseball and my dad was hitting outfield practice and he let go of the bat and I was playing first and it's smack me in the head. He was like 20 yards away and the batches flew and nailed me in the head and I went down and I started crying. He's like get up, stop crying. And in my head I'm like you just fucking hit me in the head with an aluminum bat. I'm in pain and you're telling me not to cry.
Joe:
But looking back now his way, he was projecting his fear onto me and I know with our kids, you know, as a parent, it's very easy to project your fears on it. Like you know, stop crying, don't be a wuss. You don't want people to see that you're weak or vulnerable. But it's learning to have those conversations to say how do process your emotions in a healthy way, because you don't want to be a wuss, we're crying at every little thing.
Joe:
Well, you know what? He called me? An idiot. And now you come crying home and you're 20 years old. It's like all right, you know right, but when you're going through really tough times, it's okay to process and feel your emotions and then get through so you can then move on and make the choices, decisions and be who you want to be. So you know. To get back to your question, it's just something I learned on my journey by going through the tough times and working on myself and doing therapy and different things and just seeing how important it is to really feel my feelings. Because I've learned in my journey that when I suppressed my feelings, I would say it's like a beach ball. It's like you just push it up into the water and you just keep trying to hold it there, but sooner or later it comes up and it just smacks you in the face and I've learned that getting smacked in the face by life, by the universe, is a lot more painful than dealing with whatever feelings or emotions that are going on.
Nat:
Yeah, and I think a lot of men do that. They, their feelings, have been suppressed for so long. So the most important thing to take away is to really make sure that you give them that safe place to share their feelings when they're ready and it's a process- yeah, and that's really the number one key.
Joe:
If you're in a relationship or you're single and you want to go into relationship and you want to get through this and support a man, you know, it's just like. You know what are you feeling, how are you feeling, and then just listen like don't minimize it, don't correct him, don't judge, just listen to how he's feeling and then ask questions truly from your heart, trying to understand him, because if you do that, you'll create that space where he goes.
Joe:
Oh it's okay, I can talk about my feelings. You're not going to judge me, you're not going to criticize me, you're not going to make me wrong. And the more you do that, the easier and easier and easier it will be for that man to open up.
Nat:
Right and if he truly is the right one for you and he truly is your partner, and then he truly loves you, that's going to happen, yeah.
Joe:
Right. And I also invite you if you're out there and you're dating and you see a guy and he's just like a stone wall, right, and there's no emotional you know we call it emotional health Right, and you see that this guy just has walls up, he's angry, he's, there's no way in hell. He's going to express his feelings. Talk about his feelings, deal with his feelings. Don't believe, if you just sit there and love him, he's going to open up. No person will ever change unless they decide for themselves that they need to change.
Nat:
Right, and if they're doing that from the beginning and you're just starting out, that's yeah red flag.
Joe:
Yeah, because I see that so many times. It's always a nice guy and we have a lot of fun together. And you know, he just wasn't loved as a child, so if I just show him love, he'll open up. That's not how it works.
Nat:
Anyway. So yeah, the biggest thing is, of course, communication, you know, and, as I just said, giving them the safe space to be vulnerable and to open up. That's key.
Joe:
And my suggestion again is just to look at them with the understanding is that you're not a bad man. You've just been hurt. You don't know how to process or and deal with your emotions in a healthy way and, again, that doesn't mean that you, for the, have to hang around, but stop labeling and judging. You know all men, because I think the more men are Understood and and a space is created absolutely for them to speak and talk about their motion. You know there were a lot of people in our lives, guys, who you know that we can talk about feelings, we can talk about emotions, and not that we, you know we go out to dinner all the time and bring our Kleenex and just. But you know there are times, just like, if we're going through some tough stuff, it's like, hey, you know what, let's get together and we'll talk about what's going on and and open on in genuine and vulnerable.
Joe:
I had a friend of mine who passed from cancer a few years ago and Towards the end of his journey. It was a beautiful experience, just, you know, him and I just sitting together talking about life, talking about feelings, talking about Vulnerabilities, fears, all that other stuff, and it was a beautiful, beautiful experience and you know I'll take that that experience just as much as going to, you know, a baseball game or a hockey game, and I think, in life with you know we need, we need both of those Right and that's really the key to a happy, healthy relationship is having a relationship where you can be in touch with both your masculine and your feminine energies, which will be a podcast for another yes, and it's you know, understand.
Nat:
That's why we do this to really understand why men do what they do.
Joe:
Sounds good. Anything else before I wrap it up?
Nat:
No, this is good behind behind the mind of a man.
Joe:
Hopefully give you a little insight, but you know we love and appreciate you. You know this is the last podcast before the holidays. A holiday Christmas is on Monday. It's a few days, and we're gonna take that week off to be with our family and to share the the holiday season, while the kids are all home from school and all free. So we hope, whatever holiday you celebrate, that it's a happy, healthy and blessed one and we'll see you in the new year.