Dynamic AVAX NFTs + How to Bring Utility to Your Community

GoGoPool, Landslide + Savvy DeFi brought Chef Goose of OOPA NFT to talk about dynamic nfts and how to provide utility in a NFT project.
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Social Links:
GoGoPool Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoGoPool_
Savvy DeFi Twitter: https://twitter.com/SavvyDeFi
Landslide Twitter: https://twitter.com/CosmosAVAX

Transcript

0:00

I'm gonna just welcome everyone to the Aex ecosystem space. I am one of your lovely hosts. My name is Grebe. I do marketing for Go-Go Pool. We're a decentralized lip staking protocol with the specific vision of expanding the subnet economy. I'm also joined here by my lovely co-host, one of which is S Defi. I believe. That's Alex Lumley at the home. That's your boy Alex. Lonely. What's up? Yeah, what's up my guy? Love to have you as always. And then I'm of course also joins by my beautiful friend here with the long hair Nathan of Landslide Network. Cuban pushups. Baby, let's go. I love the energy Nathan comes with every single Wednesday it's, it is absolutely epic. And today we are hosting someone. I think you all may know, but just in case you don't, we are hosting Chef Goof of UPA N F T. How are you doing today, my friends? I am doing good. Uh, I'm happy to talk to you. We haven't spoken much since the hunting party, so uh, I love working with you. So Google Pool's awesome. Always happy to join. Hey man, that, that was a lot of fun, man. Love, love working with you and the rest of the team. It's anyone out there as a person who has worked with the team personally, man, their team is absolutely amazing. Like, like control man. The, the ability for us to be like, Hey, this is, there's a bug right here. And the control has it like done within like seconds is Oh, control is, uh, I've said it before. Control is, in my view, one of the best devs on Avalanche. Oh yeah. But nobody knows who he is because he, he doesn't do any, like, he doesn't do ct, he doesn't do Twitter and things, so, but he's amazing. He's absolutely amazing. And one of the nicest guys there is, let's get him on, see if, if, if, if anything you gotta like him more because he doesn't do Twitter. Cuz that's how, you know, you're just a pure dev at that point. Exactly. I have. I have a very dumb question, but I was actually trying to sign up to play the Hump Hunting Party, and I, I think I heard it was like a one week game now, and I can't log on. Am I not like, am I like too late for this thing? Can I, yeah. So what, what, what it was is Hunting party was a one week event we did with Google Pool to kind of showcase one, the small zing game, uh, one of the games. And, uh, on global side we made it on a subnet, just showcase subnets. Uh, it was only a one week event, so you can't join anymore. But, uh, it was just to kind of showcase a few things, uh, that are coming up. Uh, I'm just so sad, I'm not gonna lie. I was like trying to log on and super excited. I was like, I'm, I'm totally gonna play. And so you'll, you'll have to bring. Wait, it's gonna come back with these small sounding game. Honestly, Alex, you should feel sad cuz it was an absolutely amazing dude. I had some going, dude, I was general abb, I was like making like speeches and shit. I was going on fat g t and, and like asking it to generate like epic. Uh, write an epic day one speech and I would always have it incorporate like portions of like what happened in hunting party cuz we were in a pretty long standing battle with like the UPA and um, the furs over like the second place Ripper. Yeah. For second place rips destroyed us River just destroyed us. But that, that battle for second place. What a battle it was. Yeah, it was funny. One of, uh, one of the team Go-go folks actually like were was setting their alarm for like every hour like in the night so they can wake up and play Honey party. Ab dude. So epic man. But let's, let's get into the meat of things man. Cause we're for sure gonna talk more about Honey Party, everybody. But uh, before we get into that, Uh, let, let's go ahead and talk a little bit about Chef Goose a little bit. Like, can you just kind of give an overview of yourself, man? Like who are you dog? Um, who am I, I'm just some guy who, some Canadian who, uh, does operations in life and who, uh, gradually has been, uh, doing more and more stuff in the N F T space. That's kind of a big summary. Uh, and I'm right now working on the more community marketing business dev side on upa, but in the past, like before Min, I was doing a lot of more project management marketing. Now I'm shifting more to community and business dev. Excellent. Okay. And yeah, for anyone out there who like doesn't know the story of upa, right? Because you know, you guys started off with APP and then headed on to upa. Can you kind of give just a quick overview of that, kind of give a history. Of course, uh, for those who like APA was minted before even I joined Avalanche, um, I'm still relatively new to to, to NFTs. Um, and it was this big sensation back then. Um, it was during the like peak of the bull run and um, after it minted the team kind of wasn't sure what to do with it. They were cut by surprise, by everything kind of felt kind of slow, uh, uh, for like several months. And after a while they decided that they had a better vision of what they wanted to do. So, um, they decided to rework the art in full to make it actually good art. The old art as, as, um, nostalgic as it may be, was kind of, it wasn't good art. Like even the artists, cuz it's the same artist who did Lupa will tell you it wasn't great art. Um, so we wanted, we spent several of us making this new collection, adding a website with utility and launch it last month. And, uh, we actually now know, like, have a better idea of where we want to go with and, uh, it's been going fricking amazing, man. Uh, uh, I'll take like five seconds to brag and, uh, like in just the last month, our volume, like we were a few, a few AVAs from surpassing modules already, just one month in, in terms of all time volume. And that's taking like, without counting a few other side collections already to, but, so we're really happy with your, we were surprised to be honest by how well it was received. Um, because we liked it, but we didn't think it would be this well received. So we're really happy. Honestly, I'm, I'm not surprised at how well it's been received. Um, goose, it's, so, I, I, when you see a team like yours building, man, you gotta notice the subtle details, right? And let's just talk a little bit about your mint, right? Most teams, when you do a mint, you go onto the website, you hit plus one, it mints, but. It was really nice to kind of see the aesthetic and the ambience that you guys kind of created First, you started off with giving everyone tokens, right, and then continued that kind of environment that you had placed when you did the mint when you were putting your token into a machine, and then it's running, and then it's generating APA for you. I thought that was a really, really cool aesthetic, but it definitely, it just shows how your team thinks on a level of detail. We're not, we haven't really seen, you know, like as, as far as I'm concerned, I haven't really seen too much in the, in the avac mt space. I, I wanna big you up on that one for sure. Thanks. Well, it goes into like the, the, like I said this at some point, another spaces, uh, that like, that, that experience of minting with the slot machine than revealing with a different salt machine that probably added like, at least a month of work into our stuff. Um, and a month of work means a month of like salaries and stuff like that. It cost, it cost us to do that. But we wanted to make sure that people understood that if you're coming into, uh, you're coming into a project that values the experience and quality and like, it's not just a, like you said, point click. Like if you're here, you're here to, we, we wanted to showcase like what we're about. Um, and it's what we keep doing, like for the website, like, Um, we've launched several pages on the website, like the wardrobe and the store, which allowed you to swap, treat, and it's kind of complicated stuff. Like I'm not a dev, but hearing them talk about it on the front end, back end, it's complicated stuff to do properly without having bugs. And in terms of the store and wardrobe, as far as I know, there's been no bugs, at least no major bugs. Maybe I, I haven't even seen anyone complain about minor bugs. Um, and that to me is, shows the talent our dev team has, and I I absolutely admire dev team. Uh, I think they're everything. Um, so we, we really value putting out quality products and not just putting something out and telling people deal with it and deal with the, the bugs or deal with the lesser quality. Like if we're not satisfied with it, you're not gonna see it. That's so real. And that's, that's all I've seen from, from the team so far. Can you, can you talk a little bit about what it was like when you were creating, like the website, you know, because you have this whole, for anyone who hasn't been on their, their website, just head to their website right now. I'm gonna, after I finish my little mo, my little monologue, I'm gonna share it at the top so you guys can check it out. But when you go onto their website, it's not just like a, a landing page, like most, you know, projects would have, they have this, this large landscape that they've built on top of this hill where it's all these different, um, it's all these different sections. Can you talk a little bit about like, what it was like to build that out and then where you're gonna take that into the future? It's a, like, just a website. It's just such a process. It didn't get there like overnight. Uh, it started out just as a static image with stuff you could click on. Then we added animations. Then we, we had parts of the highlighted, and then we got some feedback and reevaluated that, like the hiding highlighting part wasn't clear enough, so we added icons instead. Um, now we, uh, there are other parts on the website we're not satisfied with, so we're re reworking it. So it's a constant work of, okay, we've got something here. It looks good. And I, I like the look of our website, but what can we improve? Like we're already, we're, we're always in a, what could we do better, uh, kind of mindset. So, um, like, and the, the, the, you were talking about the landing page and the art is something we work really hard on. We, and people, I don't think realize. How many artists we work with, like pre Mint, we were working with five different artists. Um, now we're probably at like two or three artists more since we're like, we don't have to produce a whole collection anymore. But, uh, it's a lot of work on the art side, on the dev side. So, uh, when people talk about like, projects and, um, why certain projects stand out and others don't, it's, I think people often underestimate the work that goes into bigger projects. Uh, projects like, and I'll, I'll name other ones who I think do very good work on avalanche, like Chado Makos, who have great websites, who have great art, um, who have great communities. So, uh, well, chicken obviously has showcased as well that they have a great website. So I think people often underestimate why these collections are so big. It's because they put the resources into, into making a happen. That's so real, man. And, and I, and I love that you kind of spoke on that, where you're like putting those, you know, those resources into those things. It's like you talked about like you had five different artists working on these things and, and you can really, really feel that, right? When you look at an upa, I mean, even just the subtle detail underneath the eye to make it so that it seems like the eye is resting on something. Like, you know, like Yeah. And, and like, we, like every part of the UPA went through so many iterations. Like the, the eyes are something that I know, like party chat and the artist spent like three weeks just reworking in the, during the months of, uh, I think it was February. And the amount is something we weren't satisfied with for a long time. Like, December, we kept getting comments from the community and from internally like that we're not happy with the mouths and we kept pushing to improve them and they, they finally came out good. But it would take, took a long time, but like we, we did, we didn't wanna kind of just say, Hey, this is what it's gonna be, and push it out. Like, cuz after that you have to deal with that long term. And we're trying to think long term. It just isn't just a mint and goodbye, it's a, like, we want this to be long lasting. So it has to be good. I'm, I'm actually curious of the, of the mindset behind that, right? Like why, why did you decide to have such a focus on that detail behind the art and behind the marketing of things? Well, in terms of art is because we, uh, when we were reworking apa, like we took a look at the collections on Avalanche and this dates back to August about, um, and there were no. Like when you look at marketplaces like Solana and uh, Ethereum, they have a lot of huge collections that also have very good quality on Avalanche. We have these very good artists who make smaller collections that are very good quality, but we didn't have, in our opinion, a massive collection that had very good qual quality. Um, the only one I, from the top of my head, and I'm sure people are gonna be mad at me cuz I'm probably forgetting one, but top of my head, I know Mad School is really good. I admire Risa as an artist, but we really lacked quality collections on Avalanche in terms of artwork and uh, like in terms of attracting new people to avalanche the avalanche ft space. You need, you need a lot of things you. Uh, content. You need community, you need liquidity. But like we wanted to address the content side there cuz we felt there wasn't enough good qu content. And uh, we wanted to showcase that, hey, if you like, what people would often say is there's no use putting all this effort into Avalanche because nobody's gonna buy it. Like, you can put this amazing collection together, but you're gonna put all that work effort, money into it and nobody's gonna buy it. But we wanted to kind of showcase that's not true. If you put work and effort in something, people will buy it. So I'm really happy that that was able to be showcased cuz hopefully it'll, it'll kind of motivate other people or projects to kind of invest in theirselves and their project to improve it. To get to that high next level. Yo Alice, see with your hand raised. You got it. Uh, I, I just wanna say like, that's a, that's a super interesting comment. You kind of talked about, uh, uh, chef Goose, like. It, there is so much work that goes into building something on Avalanche cuz Avalanche is still, you know, still growing. It's, uh, there's still a lot like happening here, but it still is a smaller community than, than in other places. So how have you guys been able to kind of bootstrap that community on Avalanche? Both using the people who already exist here, but also like, have you been bringing people over from, from other ecosystems? Like where, where, where have your users come from? Like I said, yeah. Um, the users are like, we don't, we had this discussion back in, uh, fall of like how our marketing is gonna go and there was kind of divide within the team on do we try and advertise on other marketplaces, on other chains or not? And we decided not to. And the reason is when looking at how other chains attract people, like, you don't go onto like nobody on Solana. Approaches me or when, when Solana project projects approach me to kind of tell me to come in their project, I don't care. I, I ignore them. The only times I go on other chains is if I see a project that's really cool there and I motivated myself to go there. Uh, reaching out to to other chains would not have worked. We decided no, what we have to do is create a product that's so good. People want a bridge over here to use it. And that's what happens with big projects. Like, for example, youth. Like we saw, I think it was several months ago, a bunch of people on a avalanche bought some youth, but nobody from the youth community came to Avalanche said and said, come and buy youth. We just saw what was happening over there and we thought, Hey, that product's really cool. And that's kind of the what we're aimed for. Like we want it to be organic. So the community we have, we, we did have an advantage is that we already had a built-in community with apa. So that helped. And then other than that, it's about, uh, encouraging community incentives. Uh, and we can talk later about that with sub DAOs and stuff, but it's about kind of encouraging people to stay active, to encouraging and people to stay involved and then to, um, keep delivering on our part to kind of show them that, Hey, you bought a Nuer. Good job. We're gonna keep delivering to make sure you don't regret it. It's word of mouth, basically. See? Yeah. I, I like that you're going by that word of mouth and you're letting everything kind of grow organically. Um, because I feel like often sometimes, Folks that kind of swept up in making themselves look bigger, you know, buying bots and all that kind of stuff so that they look like they're a bigger project than what they are. Whereas you guys have just grown, um, really, really organically and we've seen your community be really strong because of that growth. And then not only that, when you provide the kind of utility that you guys are providing, um, it really makes it so that the community wants to stick around. Now I'm, I'm curious cause I do wanna, I do wanna talk, there's so many different ways that we can go with this conversation. That's why I really like the opus. Um, but I guess the main way I, I, the main route I kind of wanted to take would be these dynamic NFTs. Why did the, why did this kind of technology become, become so, uh, in the forefront of everything? Yeah. Um, when we first made the collection, like started developing the collection in the fall, we didn't have dynamic NFTs in mind. Um, that more so came. Uh, during probably end of December, early January where we started developing traits and we started developing, uh, a certain, um, we wanted to make sure that the traits we we produced had a more fashion focused side where things are fashionable, they look good, there's stuff you probably wear in real life. Um, and with that came the kind of discussions of, hey, maybe, uh, like wouldn't it be cool if we could do like a kind of shopping experience for people where people could try on clothes, which is what we ended up doing on the website. And then, uh, there was the talks about, okay, maybe how can you swap what, what if you could swap traits? So it kind of gradually got into the part where we're like, okay, this is what we are now that like we gradually built towards that vision. Now we're working around that dynamic NFT part. And, uh, we have a lot of ideas for dynamic NFTs. We kind of wanna build gradually and just like everything else we do, like we want to do something well, and then we're going to move on to the next part. But until we've done, we're satisfied with what we're doing right now, we probably won't move on to the next step. Got you, got you. And, and I've really been kind of liking this whole process of these dynamic NFTs. Um, what have you been kind of seeing lately? Like what kind of traits have you been seeing that people have been kind of going crazy over the most? Yeah, so there's, it's because, you know, when you're developing traits, uh, I don't know if you've ever like worked on a collection, you kind of able to spot like, Hey, I, this one's gonna be popular. Like you, you can already tell some of the traits are gonna be popular and then there are some that surprise you. Um, for me, like the halo, the Crowns, we all knew they were gonna be popular. And there, there are some that the. More desired traits. And some of the ones that surprised me are, for example, if you go into Sub das, the the mob, which is one of the bigger sub daes right now, and they, they have some clothing that they kind of, uh, took over. Like they decided this is what's gonna represent us and we didn't expect it. And I found it really cool cuz that's a, in the organic thing, like they, they decided this was valuable and they're making it valuable. And when we were designing with designing the collection, we didn't, we didn't impose rarity by that. What I mean is there's no trade that is, uh, le that's more rare than the others. Like we, they all, we all gave them the same percentage odds of being generated. So it wasn't like, oh, only 2% are halos or only, we didn't impose rarities so we could let the community decide. So that's kind of what's happening right now. Um, and sub das are kind of a really big part of that. Uh, we've been, I've been really, really surprised on how quickly sub das formed and how active they've been. Like some of the more active ones are like the, the mob, the, the Crown Dao, uh, baked out. There's the Harrington Do. So the Herring Harrington, fuck, I'm, I missed that one. But basically, um, they are community members who enjoy the, the, the, the, uh, collection, enjoy certain traits and wanna kind of build a, a small community, a sub-community out of, out of that. Uh, and like one of our main objective going forward is to kind of support these, uh, initiatives. So I was, uh, so I'd, I'd actually love at some point if we have enough time to get, uh, I think it's, I think it's Na Natie or, uh, naia because I was, I was scrolling through Twitter and saw that he's gonna talk about SubD dials and managing remote teams and I'd love to hear you guys talk a little bit about that, cuz honestly, that's fascinating. And, um, and I'm just, I've been super impressed as I've been researching you guys getting ready for this. How, um, how. Not just professional you guys are, but how much of a business sense you guys are building. Like, a lot of people think, oh, it's just an N F T project. It's not like they're, they're not really building a, a real business about it, but you guys are talking and educating people in a very different way that honestly, I'm, I'm impressed with. And, uh, something I think that like we as a team aspire to do Abby. So, so I appreciate that. Yeah. And if ever Nachi comes on tape, he's an amazing community member and, uh, he does really good stuff with UPA and with other projects as well. Um, but uh, in terms of like the business thing, you're right. Um, we, like, we just generated revenue with the Mint, but, uh, revenue, like you can't always keep minting to generate revenue. Like we're gonna have to find other revenue streams, which is what we're working on. And so we're really taking a business approach in that, look, we just meant it. This has given us a certain amount of runway, but that runway won't last forever. So now we're really approaching it as like, As a business, the UPA is a business now. Um, how can we generate revenue to support our salaries so that going forward we can keep building for upa, um, and keep delivering. And the, the example I is, um, cuz I was reading on the labs, which is, uh, dust lab, sorry, which is what, uh, the, the Gods and Youths are from, is they have their own side organization, which, uh, builds software and consults with people with projects and they get revenue from that, which allows them to keep supporting themselves and keep delivering on the youths side and the God side, which is, it basically becomes their access to the community while they build business. In the back. Uh, so we're gonna have to find our own revenue streams, which are gonna be probably different to kind of keep, uh, building UPA and to keep it alive because we don't want it to be this thing where, hey, you minted. And then a year later we tell people, oh, we're out of runway. So too bad. Like a lot of collections do that. Um, I saw a post on Twitter. I don't, it was from some guy on eat last week this week who said, Hey, like, one of the interesting situations is, is in the next year is most big collections in the N F T world on whatever chain are gonna run out of runway. And it's gonna be what do they do to address that? Some of them are gonna disappear. Some of them are just gonna basically give less and less news. Some are probably gonna find innovative ways to keep themselves alive, but it's the reality most collectors are gonna, collections are gonna have to face. And it's about how they face them. I, I love that. That's like, uh, So I, one, one of the things I think like, like one of the reasons why, why we vibe so much with like Google Pool and Landslide is, is, is, is we feel like a lot of people in Web three kind of are just trying to build things rather than always trying to build like a sustainable protocol. Mm-hmm. And they're just trying to be here for a good time rather than like a long time. Right. Yeah. And, and I appreciate how you guys are doing that. And so could you give us any more of like, um, any more information about kind of how it's looking for you guys, how it's going? I know especially around Avalanche is trying, doing a bunch with the avik or, or, or however you pronounce it, like people are trying to get, starting and get going, but how, what are you guys trying to do to build more, um, of a sustainable protocol and, and any, anything you're willing to get specifics on would be amazing. I, I can't go into because we're still like exploring business opportunities. So I can't go into specifics. We have some stuff we're trying to explore right now, which is like partnerships, I've said it before, but like, partnerships with real life bra fashion brands to include traits in our collection since we're dynamic, we can do that. Uh, and other stuff, I, I, I'd rather not go into specifics right now cuz one of the main things is I try not to, uh, talk about anything or promise anything until I know it'll happen. Cause I hate, uh, creating false expectations. So there's a ton of stuff we wanna explore. Nothing I'm sure enough on to talk to, to be able to talk about it right now. Um, what I can talk about what we're doing, cuz you talked about however you pronounce it, um, is how we're going to make sure that while we, um, build out this more business side, the community side has to stay alive. So, We're going to like, it's really cool that it's happening as like our beginning is happening as Aal sense is coming because we get to kind of, uh, take advantage of it in that there's this, uh, we wanna support sub DAOs. By that we we're creating our own sub, our own Dow, which we're feeding with over$10,000 and a bunch of NFTs. And we're gonna be choosing that doubt to kind of reward anyone who, um, shows initiative in the Lupa community. Uh, whether it be an indiv individual sub dao. So we wanna be able to support people, um, in their projects because oftentimes someone in the community will be able, will tell us, Hey, I have this idea, but I don't have the resources to put it together. Maybe it's to create a tool or, Hey, I want to, I've built this website, but I have no arc for it. Paying an artist is not something I can afford. Well, we'll, we want to have those financial means to support those people in, in their initiatives. They're doing it for our community, so we want to kind of give back in that way. That, that's awesome. And, and, and I know, um, and, and so kind of touching on that subject, something that, uh, o obviously Google Pool and SAVI are, are very passionate about. And last slide as well is like the building the community. So you guys have obviously been able to build one. Like what, what lessons have you learned in terms of building a, both building a community and getting kind of passionate fans, but also, um, allowing them to contribute to your success? Yeah. Um, I'm still learning, like just, I'm funny. I'm writing a thread for UPA right now, um, about like kind of where we are around upa and one of the things that that's in the tread is about how like we've gotten the. This week about how we haven't been giving enough updates recently on like what we're building. We've kind of been head down like building on, uh, parcel, which is coming and some new pages we're doing, and we haven't been giving enough updates. So like I'm still learning about like how to keep the community updated regularly while also keeping expectations in check because, uh, one of the things I've noticed and learned is you can't take shortcuts community-wise. Um, we often see projects, people talk about, hi, this new hype thing is coming, this new hype thing is coming with this new hype thing is coming and there's no, um, that can work temporarily. But the truth is people rarely deliver on those hypes. Um, and what happens is people lose trust in you at some point. Like there are a lot of people who. In Avalanche and other chains, when they tell me there's something hype coming, I don't even believe them anymore until I see it because they've done it so often. Uh, so my opinion is we wanna be this collection. And I was talking to Studley more whenever team members this weekend. He said it really well that you can't always be on top of the hype train. Like you can't always be what everyone's talking about. Because there's always this big thing that this week it was Dodger Reinos, which was very popular. People were talking about what we wanna be is that collection that yes, there are moments of hype because we're gonna release stuff, but in their softer moments, we're gonna let other people like hype. We're gonna support our projects and what they're building. We want, we really believe in supporting other projects. What's important to us is once their hype dies down, we wanna be what people come back to. We wanna be that, that sure thing that people come back to that they know will deliver, that they know like doesn't overpromise. That's kind of what, what we're working towards. Uh, that, that's, that's super cool. I know, I know this is something that AbbVie and I at least have, have definitely experienced in like, you know, uh, trying to like, like launch something things happening, like setting expectations, setting goals, all this different stuff. Like how do you guys manage both, like we, we call it, for our team building in public, right? And letting, allowing the community to see what we're doing, but at the same time, um, managing expectations and not over-promising, but still over, like, you know, kinda over delivering. How do you guys balance that? Yeah, that's hard because, um, my, I'm a very transparent person. Like I am very pro, like you said, building in public, telling people we're working on. What I'm learning though is that probably isn't the best idea in terms of, uh, keeping people interested because when you're always building in public, um, at some point people kind of, uh, there's not that sense of, oh, I wonder what's coming next. Um, And I'm still learning to balance that. Cause uh, I wanna keep that sense of excitement while also keeping people informed. Uh, it's something I still have difficulties with in all honesty. So, um, that part I'm having, I am still learning. Well, what do you find the answer, please let us know. Yes. Hope I do. Uh, I know, I know, I, I know Nathan had a question. Um, yeah, I, I I just wanted to kind of pivot into, I, I, I want, I, you know, the, the Imani Python. I'm here for an argument, uh, type scenario. Can I, can I just toss a, a bomb and, and see what we think? Hey, I am one of the people who c causes the most arguments, so, okay. You can bring it to me as well. Okay. So can I, I'm okay. I'm honestly curious. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a devil's advocate. What is the reason that we see N F T gaming really taking off if there is no interoperability between games? Um, oh, uh, I'm not a gaming expert. I'm not, I wasn't expecting that question. Um, I am not, uh, I'm not as in tune as I used to be in terms of like N F T games coming up. Um, there's not interoperability into platform games, like half the games that come out. Like, if I'll have Xbox, I can't play with like somebody who has pc. Yeah. But the questions good. And my, I I don't know where N F T gaming is at the moment. When I was more into it, let's say six months ago, my opinion was that I wasn't sure that NFTs were something that would take off in gaming because kind of what we were saying, like what's the difference? Um, I can't, I, I'd like to have an answer to that. Uh, I, I, my, my opinion is oftentimes, and this is the same with tokens as well, like oftentimes NFTs are to, and tokens are, um, super fluid in that they're not needed in the laws of what we, we do. Um, like most gaming tokens, most tokens in general could just be replaced by the, the gas token. Like most of them aren't really that useful. Most of them are just a way to raise money. Um, so I, I, I, I think you're probably right that in most cases they don't really add much to more just a cool thing to have. I have an argument on the forest side of things. Go ahead. Go ahead. So as of right now, um, a lot of games do exclusive releases. A lot of them only release on PS four or PS five, or only on Xbox, et cetera. Um, some games do have interoperability between the two, but a lot of'em don't release in that way. Um, and from a technical standpoint, a lot of them, it's harder to release in that way because there's a lot of things that you have to develop on the developer side in order to have them like work together. I would argue that it's easier for them to be interoperable. Not right now, obviously, but as we move towards the future on the blockchain, especially with, uh, protocols like yourself, like yours, you know, landslide network, um, who will eventually unite cosmos with Ava. Something that, you know, who would've ever thought is possible. So when, so when something that's impossible gets done. Now we understand that it's becomes possible for all blockchains to unite in some sort of way. And so I think that, you know, there's an argument there where there's a case to where interoperability in the future will be a lot easier to do for games on the blockchain as opposed to on platforms. Yeah, that makes sense. And um, speaking of, and I'm sorry for this side note, you say you were talking about landside. Can I ask like, what's happening with Landside? Cuz I, I really like the idea. I just have no idea where it's at right now. Yeah. We, we've decided to pivot to just an N F T collection. It's just, you know, uh, is, are, wait, are you serious? No, I'm not. Okay. I was, I laugh. I was like, whoa, I'm gonna feel bad. It, he's serious here. There's gonna be 6,969, um, landslides You can buy. Yeah, we we're, we're, this weekend we're hosting, um, like a, a subnet summit. So, so Brey is talking, uh, Steven Gates from, from Gogo Pool. Um, SAV is talking. Um, and ba basically it's, you know, a free, uh, summit to build up to the Avalanche Barcelona. Uh, cool. So if, and, you know, if there are folks out there who, who are working on a, a subnet summit that wanna submit, like please just DM us, like we're happy to talk, um, where we are with landslides, we're op, we're open sourcing our landslide core, uh, on Friday, which is like, um, our version of the Cosmos, uh, plus tender mint. So Cosmo, om, uh, instead of, instead of Tender Min, we took the where Tenement was and we dropped the engine block out, threw it out, and we replaced it with, with avalanche consensus. So we're releasing like an early package, we're open sourcing it, um, and uh, we're developing the I B C like client. Uh, you know, i b c is you, you can be simultaneously like an Ava Maximalist and an I B C Maximalist, cuz I b c is very, very similar to avalanche warp messaging. And, um, I B C is sort of, it's like ano, you know, it's, it's like the bridge mm-hmm. Uh, that unites the nations. Um, it's agnostic. Um, it's safe and, and, um, it's open source. Yeah. I used to, I used to be on Cosmos a bit and I really, I liked it, but I, there was something that I felt always felt off about it for me. But you talk like you use a lot of terms that I'm too dumb to understand. Like, but, so I'll ask it in a simple way. When will I be able to use osmosis on Avalanche? Yeah. Great question. So osmosis has expressed interest in deploying an osmosis outpost there. So like, you know how they have like frontier and they have different version flavors of osmosis. Mm-hmm. Um, You'll be able to, to deploy there, hopefully by year end. Um, our i b c like client will be done within four months. And then we we're gonna open source that, and then we kind of like, we're starting our incentivized testnet soon, um, when we have, you know, uh, after we open source. Um, so the idea is that osmosis will be existing on multiple zones, one of which is, is avalanche. And that that's gonna result in, um, some very interesting y you know, ar arbitrage, uh, because of the finality differentials between tender mint and, and avalanche. Okay. Okay, cool. So what that means for UPA is if UPA wants to go to another chain that's, that's, like, that's totally possible. Um, as long as the, we're gonna see a ton of more multi chain NFTs, you can, you can kind of see that with layer zero layer zeros. Implement. I was gonna say, I was gonna say Layer zeros approached us for multi chain. What? Uh, I actually forgot to answer them. Fuck. Um, yeah, you should talk to'em. Oh yeah. They're, they are great. Um, but our mentality right now is more to kind of build a strong base here and then maybe at some point expand. But, uh, yeah, I think it's more popular. I think it's risky though, because like most of the time, like NFTs are cultural community based, so if you just try to export them somewhere else, you're, you can't easily export a community elsewhere. Um, so you either have to kind of convince your community to go elsewhere, which is what youths did. Or you have to have a community ready on the other side, which I, I'm not sure I've seen anyone manage to do that. And so the way you could do it is, is sort of what they're doing with interchange staking osmosis is trying to pivot. Uh, I would say Cosmos in general is trying to do like interchange staking, that's the way you would do it. Which would, which, which would probably be like, I, I don't know how you would relate it to NFTs other than through a game. Yeah. Um, I like, so, so the, the, the, the, the, the people who could do it most easily is something probably like chicken who have the game mechanics set up. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, man. Anyway, I think I, I've been kind of quiet, but I wanted to just acknowledge you guys for a great, great project. I'd love to, I'd love to see some more ladies in the house. Uh, you know, I opt for, especially if it would, uh, you know, be a political statement, uh, legal or otherwise. I would, I would opt for those pieces on my upa. Um, I we're, um, we're, I'm not sure we're gonna be half female ZPA right now, but we're kind of brainstorming ways to uh, kind address that. Yeah. It's a male centered collection right now and we want to kind of have ways to cater to more female side. We're still brainstorming, like, give me some seriously, like gay stuff cuz I'm going whole hog on this one. Oh my goodness. Horn. Oh, Nathan gracious. Oh, the places the Ava, Hey, look, I'm a burner. I, I did the burning thing. I, I am, I'm open. And, uh, upa that's, we're gonna have to start thinking about more. Uh, but actually that's part of what we're, I'll take a on this. And one of the things we're working on is like, one the internally our vision is, and we're really not there yet, is we wanna become kind of the, the center for culture allow. So that's kind of the objective. We're nowhere close to doing it in that, uh, we have the ability to adapt over time. Usually collections have this, they, they min and then they kind of stay stale so they can't adapt to the new culture on avalanche or whatever current events or new protocols or so they can't adapt. Uh, And we want to kind of have upa be this thing that adapts over time and can adapt to the culture. And we wanna work with different protocols, different subnets, different anyone who to kind of help them integrate avalanche and be this kind of center where, yeah, you have this awesome defi product, this awesome subnet, but it's hard to maintain communities around that. Uh, so we want to ha help people on the community culture side. Well, we need some ladies on the community, man. Yeah. Just like, uh, going into the club and there's a free drinks for ladies. Uh, yeah, ladies night for sure. I just, I, I just wanna support what my man, Nathan said. Uh, a hundred percent on, on on you, Nathan, but, uh, but, but also on, on Newba. I think it's super interesting how you guys kind of have built in like composability into your quote unquote jpeg NFTs, right? Um, and that's, and that's super interesting, uh, and it gives you the flexibility to kind of continue to build moving forward. So, a, a, a question I had, and this is a very self-serving question, obviously, but like, how do, how does Defi and NFTs connect, right? So, I know, I know UPA has like your, your, your UPA credits, right? Mm-hmm. What does that mean and, and how, how does someone like, because it seems to be that NF and there's like the NFT D gens and then there's the defi d gens. How did those things sort of overlap? Well, I mean, it, you have to understand. At their core, like what they're about, like defi is about like, it's about finance, it's about, at its core, it's about making money and finding ways to make money from the money you have. Um, NFTs are about culture and about entertainment. They're about, uh, community. So they have different like, uh, core values, which is why oftentimes you'll have these awesome defi protocols. And, uh, you have stuff like Yeti in the past, you have Trader Joe, well, trader now has Joe Pegs in their collection. But Headspace, there was Trader Joe. There was, um, yield yak, benke. There's a ton of awesome protocols, but they, to my knowledge, don't have these solid communities. They have supporters, people who like the protocol and use it and, and swear by it, but they don't have communities that are active and who kind of help that whole spread the word and that kind of band together. Uh, On the a on the comu, on the, um, N F T side, it's kind of the opposite, where their whole thing is banding together and supporting each other. And, uh, so ideally you merge those together, but that's why I think there's a, a separation between the two in that there's defi people and, and N F T people. Some people do both, but oftentimes it's just one of the two because they just have different values and goals. Um, maybe over time it'll merge. I'm hoping we can help that. Um, but uh, like one of the objectives is to go see someone like, I don't know, yield yak or banky and say, Hey, we can create these banky traits for you and help you integrate the Uber community. And on our side, we'll, we kind of want to integrate the Ben community and we gotta work together and we wanna build more long-term partnerships with people. And Google Pool's a good example where we did one event with Google Pool, we didn't know who they are, they were, and. After that experience, we really enjoyed working with them. They were, they're competent people. They're smart. Uh, they're, they're enthusiastic. Um, so we want to at least, I hope, uh, I don't wanna speak Tovi, uh, to previous, uh, organization, but we hope to kind of build this more long lasting partnership with them. That's kind of what we wanna do with other protocols and projects. And subnets kind of build lo longer lasting stuff where we can integrate their community while they integrate ours. Yeah. If we can get some, uh, some G G P traits up in. Fire. Hey, it's on the table. Oh yeah, y'all heard it here. First space baby. Nathan, where's the, where's the air horn, man? I'm getting hype. I'll do, yeah, dude, I'm, I'm so down for that. Like, I, yeah, I saw Mike was putting up hearts too in the, in the chat, cuz Yeah, that would be so far, if we can get some g p traits. The other, the other cool stuff, I mean like interoperable NFTs is great and Upgradeable is great. We'd love to help provide, uh, you know, real world assets. So like talking gold bars, land yachts, like real yacht marinas. I mean, you know, we gotta think. Look, if, if someday, if someday can still nu for a yacht, uh, I'll come back to you and I'll provide the marina for you as well. Well, one, one thing we, we noticed for the, for the summit is that like we, we tried to do a token gate metaverse, and people didn't actually pick up on it, but like, we should totally do a, like an UPA metaverse. I mean, if you have the upa, you get access to this metaverse or you get access to this yacht, or if you get access to, you know, the, uh, the golf, uh, and that N F t uh, uh, uh, link style did that a couple years ago, but I, yeah, we're working on a, um, it's, it's not exactly what you're talking about, uh, but we are working with, uh, last World. I don't know if you know who they are. Oh, yeah. On Oh yeah. They're amazing, uh, on providing, uh, a, a new trait for people who are adverse. Um, but yeah, that's great. We haven't done, yeah. Yeah, that's a great idea. So, We gotta talk a little bit about like, well, for one, what, what was that called? Lost World. Lost World. I think it's plural. So, lost Worlds. Yeah. Lost Worlds. What, what is Lost Worlds? I'm basically, it's an application that allows you to kind of, uh, it's GPS based, claiming, claiming NFTs on based on GPS positioning. So if you're at this location, you can claim an, uh, an NFT from their app. So, uh, people who are at Baral will be able to claim an NFT fora, oh wait, for real? Like, that's a thing that's happening. Yeah. What? Oh, that's fire. Cause I'm gonna be a summit doc. Let's go. So, um, chef goes, I gotta talk a little bit. So like, what can we expect on the roadmap for upa, let's say moving on down the line like a year or two out. Oh fuck. A year or two out, man, that's far. Um, uh, Hey man, we're, we're still like planning on launching our pages in the next month. Like short term. What you can expect is short term. By short term, I mean, they say maybe next four months or something you can expect is launching updates on the website, a few new pages, uh, launching regularly, new traits, uh, trying to branch out. Uh, we're separating it. Two, there's branching out within Avalanche and outside of Avalanche. Within Avalanche, we, we kind of want to expand kind of what I talked about regarding say, Benke or Google Pool, where we kind of work with them, uh, to expand their reach into avalanche and kind of. Connect everyone on avalanche together. Uh, so kind of be that, that, um, I don't wanna say, uh, center of it, but kind of be that, um, fuck, I have a French term for it. Fil star. Uh, we have this kind of, uh, fuck, I dunno how to call it, give it to us in French, man vi. Um, it's basically to be this kind of tread that, that allows people to connect. Um, and so in terms of that, that's in Avalanche. And then outside of Avalanche, there is, um, like I talked about earlier, trying, trying to create more business partnerships that can kind of generate revenue, uh, that we're still in the, like planning stages. So I can't even talk about specifics, but we wanna, that's what we wanna explore next. Uh, and then there's kind of. And in between where there's all these partnerships that have been announced with, uh, Ava Labs, with Subnets, cuz subnets are kind of a special thing. And we wanna see how we can help subnets integrate Avalanche. So go see these, these, these projects. Like, and I haven't talked to them, so don't, don't assume I have, uh, fight chess or TSM and say, Hey, how can we help you onboard your community onto Avalanche? Love it. Love it. Wanna pivot that into the how do, how do we onboard your community? I want to, I wanna just talk about the, the new release. The, uh, the Spruce. The Spruce Goose. It's gonna be a very hardcore pivot here, chef. It's gonna be a hardcore pivot, dude. Hey, I just wanna say, don't get whiplash. I have to leave in, I have to leave in seven minutes. I have an interview in seven minutes. Great. Yeah, we have a, we, we, we usually stop at the, at the hour. Okay. Just the, the thing that will onboard users is obviously all the gaming platforms, and then the, uh, avalanche just released Spruce, which is basically their, their answer to R three Corta and IBM m Hyperledger, all of which are like a graveyard of, of, uh, failed, uh, attempts at institutional K y c, dark pools and, and permission finance. So this, uh, you know, this is the ecosystem space, so I just wanna just touch on it because it's, uh, insane. It's a, it's a, it's a great, uh, success for, for Ava Labs. They, they, they have, uh, uh, institutional partners from t Rowe Price, wisdom Tree Cumberland, and uh, Wellington Management. And so all of that means, Um, that those institutional players are dipping their toes into, into clearly, uh, uh, KYC subnets into permissioned, um, defi and, and, and general, uh, um, key management and subnet infrastructure, uh, as it comes to avalanche. So that's really big news for this space. That's awesome. I, I, like I said, I'm not really up to date on anything gaming side, but I, I know a lot of games have been building for like, the past year, so I think the next year in Avalanche can be interesting gaming wise. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Just there's a PS five game coming out like that, that's just unbelievable through the, the gunilla, uh, team that, that's just amazing what it's called. Yeah, dude. It's called, it's called Off the Grid. It's a PS five game, but it's gonna be a subnet. Yeah, dude, get, come on, get outta here. Give, get, get. Dude, what? I had no idea about this shit. That's fine. Goon, goon shared it. It's, it's, and, and not only that, dude, like, it's a really good, like the, the, the acting is really good and the graphics are sick. It looks like a Ma Matrix movie. Like, look at this. It's just crazy. Everyone, everyone who's in this chat right now, I need you to hit at the bottom right. Hit this little, there's the chat button. Hit. And then hit reply. And I just need you to at Gunilla and tell them to come to the AVA ecosystem space. Wait, let me give, let me give the right, let me give the right tweet. Okay. So I, so that way I, I don't, I don't spam some wrong person. Let me just, lemme just give this, okay. I put it in the bottom. No, it's a lot funnier. If we spam the wrong person, it's way funnier that way. Just, just look at that tweet at the bottom there. Okay. Look at goons tweet and look. Yeah, it's, it's Gunilla Gaines. Yeah. On the gun subnet. What guy? Let's go Ah, yeah, everyone please bam Gunz and tell'em to come to Avac ecosystem space. Let's get them on here cuz that would be super epic. But, um, yeah man, we coming up to that hour mark and get, we're gonna start closing things down. Uh, chef Goose, really, really appreciate you for sliding out today. We're gonna open everything up for closing remarks, man. You got any closing remarks you wanna say to the people? No, but I will say though, that, um, uh, this is, this has been one of the best hosted spaces I've seen on Avalanche, uh, in terms of like how you guys are energetic, prepared, like there's no downtime, like, honestly, props to you guys. Like, I haven't listened to the, I haven't listened to it, but I'll tune in more. Like, you guys have been really good props. Hey, that's love, man. Thank you so much. You know, we, we try to make this as fun as possible and as informative as possible and you are a very informative person, so yeah, it's, it's been epic. Um, my friend Nathan, you got any closing remarks for the people, bro? Yeah, so I'll, I'll put a closing remark to my own ar argument about, so Chorus one goes into a really interesting avalanche gaming thesis, which is their investment thesis on avalanche gaming. So if you're interested in, in why. You know, what's going on, uh, in terms of a, uh, an investment thesis in this. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll put it here. Perfect. Thank you very much for that. My friends, Alex, lonely of Savvy Defi. You got any closing remarks, my friend? Yeah, I just wanna say super impressed with, with ipa. You guys, you guys are doing a tremendous job. And like I said, it's not just like you guys. I love the way you guys spoke about not just, uh, not just building an nft, but building, like being a cultural hub for avac and the way you guys are actually going about and building a sustainable business is super interesting. And, and I'm excited to see kind of where you guys go moving forward. Um, uh, a shoutout, uh, so 75 we're, we're hosting, uh, an NYC nft, uh, event. Basically talking about the intersection of NFTs and Defi, uh, which is why I asked the question earlier. If you guys are, if you guys are in nyc you should come through. Or if, if there's any artists out there who wanna showcase their art, please, please send it over to me and, and we'll be happy to post it up on our, on our monitors. Um, so we would love to see you guys at N F T nyc. It's tomorrow evening, and I'll, and I'll send out the event right. If you guys could share that, that'd be super helpful. Um, is, um, go ahead. Are, is SAVI and Landslide going to be at, uh, summit? Yes, we will definitely be at Summit. Um, some, somebody from our team will be there. I'd love to, I'd love to meet you guys. And Landslide, I'm sure, I'm sure you guys are going too, right? Nathan? Yeah. One, some of our team will be there. Yeah. We, we did this, we did the subnet Summit specifically for people who don't want to go or can't make it or whatever reason, if you're argumentative. But you can, you can join on the Summit Summit, which is this weekend. Yay. Make sure everybody slide out to that subject summit. I will also be speaking there as well. It would've been smart of me to have posted that at the top so that everyone could have gone to the link, but did not do that. And shame on me and Nathan. And Nathan for not, for not scolding me earlier. Um, but yeah, man, it's, it's been, it's been absolutely great. Another amazing Ava ecosystem space. With my end, my closing remarks, uh, Gogo Pool is launching very soon. And I know I say that all the time and I've been saying that for months. Come on. What quarter man? Give us a quarter. It is. All I can say is it is way sooner than you're even fathoming right now. Yo. Is there gonna be a marina? Is there gonna be a marina? Yeah. Is there No, people are gonna do the Macarena though, that's for sure. Hey guys, I, I gotta go. I, I have an interview starting, so, uh, nice talking to you guys. Hey, it was nice talking to you, chef Goose. Thanks so much. Thank you so much. Later. Um, but yeah, so we're, we're, we're launching soon, everybody. So yes, make sure you, if you, if you're not already following us, please hit follow. And if you don't have notifications, like a little bell notifications, make sure you hit that so that you can go ahead and stay up to date with everything. We be posting a lot of different things about subnets and validators and we also do promo videos of this. I'm gonna have this out on Spotify for you folks very soon. Um, and just for anyone out there, just letting you know, we are in fact on Spotify, if you type in Ava ecosystem space, you'll be able to slide right by it to us. But I should have this. Uh, specific episode up uploaded very, very soon. It's been lovely talking to everybody. Remember, we do this weekly, every Wednesday at 3M e s t, my friend. You know the best place to be. That's what Savvy Defi. Landslide and G G P. It's been excellent having everybody here. You, you already know my statement, my friends. You don't gotta go home, but you gotta get up on outta here, y'all.