Is AVAX GameFi Actually Bringing Fun Games to Web3?

GoGoPool, Landslide + Savvy Defi talked to Park of Gaming on AVAX about how Subnets are changing the landscape of web3 gaming for the better.....that means actually making fun games!

Social Links:
GoGoPool Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoGoPool_
Savvy DeFi Twitter: https://twitter.com/SavvyDeFi
Landslide Twitter: https://twitter.com/CosmosAVAX

Transcript

0:05

I would like to welcome everyone to the vacs ecosystem space. I am one of your lovely hosts. My name is Bre. I work for Gogo Pool. We're decent, centralized, we're a permissionless liquid staking protocol with the specific vision of expanding the subnet economy. And we do that by helping Validators launch at half cost. Baby. I am joined here by my other lovely co co-host. We got Alex Mumley at the helm of Savvy Defi. Say, what's up my friend? Hello. Hello. Hello, hello. And for those of you who don't know what Savvy Defi does, they do non-liquid debting lines of credit. And I believe y'all are alive right now. Right? You live, you know it. It's the only thing. Come on. Come on. They're alive. I wanna say you guys have broke a million TV v L as well. We did. Let's fucking go. Seven figures officially. Never going back to that. Let's go, let's go. That's what's up. I'm also joined by my other lovely cohost. We have Nathan of Land slide Say, what's up my friend? All right. All right. For those of you who don't know what landslide is, they are bringing Cosmos zones to subnets to summarize a real, real easy for you and last, but of course, nowhere near least we got the man, the myth, the Legend Park. Ava Labs game it beat D. Say, what's up my friend? What's up my friend? How we doing today? Oh man. Doing amazing, dude. Can't wait to talk about all the different stuff we about to talk about, um, to everybody out there. I'm just gonna go over the agenda real, real quick. We're gonna start out with a nice interview with Park. He'll tell us about his crypto story, how he landed on Vacs. We'll talk about, um, why Vacs has taking such a focus on gaming. Going to a little bit about the Beam subnet. Super excited about that. Round things off with Gonz and then we'll open things up for closing remarks. Uh, I, I guess just to start everything off Park, could you give everyone your crypto story, man? How did you land here On a vx boy. Okay. Yeah, I can, I can try. I'll try to make it very brief. Nah, man. Go into it, dog. I, I, uh, I joined the professional work world about two years ago now at Oracle Consulting. Um, was making money there, you know, on, on a pave and was wondering where I should allocate my discretionary income towards naturally was thinking of the future and the ROIs and so I, I, you know, looked at the stock market and looked at other areas and found crypto as being interesting. I always thought, um, I wanted to position myself somewhere on cutting edge solutions and technology and found myself fond of blockchain technology and naturally stumbled into crypto itself. And so invested into Bitcoin, Ethereum and, you know, was interested in decentralized finance, was using Ethereum to, uh, just play around, make swaps on, uh, unis swap. And as a newbie into the work world, they, one swap pretty much broke my whole, uh, my whole first paycheck. And so I realized that. I didn't really like defi. And um, then I found out there was other solutions out there. Um, alternative layer ones, uh, Solana Avalanche being the two that I, um, gravitated towards and found myself, you know, really enjoying the avalanche technology through defi protocols. I mean, it was, pangolin I think was really, really all there was back then. And while working, you know, simultaneously at Oracle and being a degen and crypto at time, I really clicked with gaming and blockchain and, and I saw a job opportunity actually tweeted out by our coo, Kevin Signi, that had gaming business development on it. And I shot my shot and it worked out and, and, you know, haven't, haven't really looked back since. So that's, that's it, that's the quick story for anyone out there. I need y'all to know this. This is, this is a statement that I believe park. Will, will, will hold true as well. You miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. If Park did not decide just to apply, he could not have gotten the job and be at where he is right now. Just wanted to say that to everyone out there, just in case anyone out there is thinking about a decision or thinking about doing something, just do it. Just do it. You miss a hundred percent of the shots. You don't take. Worse comes the worse. You fail, you learn something. That's all that is. Um, but uh, but, but Park specifically, what, what kind of intrigued you about Avalanche? Yeah. I was early in the kind of mindset of gaming and blockchain and how I. Saw that being a, a really big focal point in like the two technologies is, um, gaming, right? And, and I thought, you know, the next real cycle of adoption for blockchain would be through, uh, a gaming application. And, and so I was toying around with the early, the early games of Web three and found myself a part of the Defi Kingdoms community. And when they made their migration to what is now known as Dfk chain, uh, with their crystal BA launch, I, you know, was actively participating in the migration there. And it just kind of clicked that subnet technology was inevitably the future of, of gaming and what these gaming publishers would, would be meeting in order to meet all of their requirements for, you know, successful technology. And so that's what got me super excited about Avalanche and yeah, that, that's kind of it. All right, now, now we've got all the formalities out the way. Let's, let's, let's dive in. Park. I, I, I really wanna pick your brain here, my friend. Cool. We can have fun now. Yeah, yeah. We can have fun. Now we got formalities. You know, they know who you are. You work for Aval Labs, all that good stuff. Now, what games are you excited about? So, there are a lot of games I'm excited about. Not all of them are even on Avalanche, which, you know, I, I have to be non-biased as a gamer. But let's start with the games I'm super excited about. I think everybody knows kind of the list here at this point, but one being shrapnel. I'm a big fan of extraction based shooters. Uh, I've escaped from Tarko. I've sunk a lot of hours into that with my friends. And ultimately, I always get to the point in the game where the value is not tradable. Everything is just, I just reach a point of, of dead end. And I really like the ability to be able to trade value between. Um, my games and my, my team, my friends I guess. And so that just really clicked with me with what their business model was. Um, so there's my, my one game on Avalanche that I definitely am excited about other games I'm looking forward to is, I, I like the Game Planet Mojo. It's not on avalanche, but it is very much a team fight tactics s game. And I've been playing team fight tactics this new season and so I've kind of had a, a web three itch, so to speak, and, and I'm excited to play that when it goes live. Um, I'm excited about Gunilla games. I think we're gonna talk about that later, so I don't wanna like really go into that one. Um, fable born as far as mobile games, I'm excited about, they are a, I guess, what would you call it? A turn base. It's very much like a clash of clan type of game where you build your base, you go out, you attack other people's bases, and then, you know, if you successfully destroy their base, you get loop. And you build your base up so that you don't get, you know, attacked. Um, but I really need a new mobile game. I don't really have any that I like at the moment. And so that one being on Avalanche, I tweeted about it yesterday. I'm excited about that. Um, so that's a quick list for you. All right. So we gotta, we gotta dive in. So I know we, I know I said Gonz last, but we do not have to start off with it last, like if you wanna go into it, we can go into it, my friend. Cause you definitely mentioned it and it's definitely, it's definitely something I'm excited about. I mean, for the folks out there, could you kind of give just a quick overview about what Gonz is building and then why you're excited about it? Yeah, so I can definitely go into that. Gonz is exciting for me because it's very cyberpunk, future driven. They position themselves as like a battle Royal L 2.0. And I think that comes from their ability to tell stories, and that comes largely from their hire of Neil Blomkamp as their chief creative officer. Something goofy like that, but makes maybe it's Chief Storytelling Officer, but Neil Blomkamp, for the people who don't know, he was the executive producer for the, uh, movie District nine, along with several other notable titles that I won't go into detail with because I don't know'em off the top of my head, but very, very good title. So I think their ability to weave a gameplay driven or story driven gameplay into their battle royale is gonna be really interesting. And I think what's really cool is the assets that your character, I don't know how public this is and, and I'm sure it's fine, but the assets that you loot in game are all associated to like body parts, right? So you can get a mechanical leg. It gives you the ability to jump extra high, but you blend that with another character's, say, I don't really know what the type of item would be. Let's say it's say a gun for an arm, something like that. You can really craft your character into a lot of different formats and versions and all of that is, all those are individualized assets that create the character that you're playing as I think that's really cool of how they're individualizing assets of a character and they'll all be tradable, NFTs. Um, that's something I'm super looking forward to is being able to kind of make my own character based on my play style preferences and yeah, I think that's really interesting. I haven't seen anything done like that before. You know what? I've never heard of anything done like that before too, bro. That's really actually super fire. I, I, I didn't know anything about that specific feature. I did know that they were building a battle royale game, but I didn't know that about that specific feature. And then Gonz, Gonz itself is a subnet and then they're going to be, are they gonna be bringing on games as well onto their subnet or are they just gonna have off the grid? Yeah, so I'm not sure what all's been disclosed publicly, but they do plan to onboard other games onto their gun Z platform. And I think I've spoken about it before, but that's really the business model we're seeing a lot of on the gaming side, is these platforms as a service where, you know, these teams have already taken the friction out of the onboarding, the game development onboarding process. So game developers are very much easily. These subnets are much easily accessible to these maybe smaller indie developers, um, by leveraging the tools that the gun Zilla team has already created on top of the subnet. So they do in, in fact, plan to onboard other games. I'm not sure what games those are at this time though. And, uh, this question is more so just kinda like a futuristic question. Cause I'm, I was just curious as you were kind of talking about it, cuz you're, you're saying that you know, that you've been seeing, you know, projects have it so that they create a subnet and then bring on other projects onto that subnet. Do you think that this could be the new model for gaming studios where it's more like gaming subnets instead? Yeah. I could see there being a world where these smaller game studios who maybe wanna compete with. The big dogs or the big gaming publishers could maybe band together and deploy all their assets on, on a, you know, let's call it an indie gamer subnet. And they're all building there together, sharing tools, allowing the development of their games to rise successfully with one another. And I think that's a world that I could envision. I also see game publishers individually creating their own subnets. So you have different subnets that are associated with ips and universes within each publisher's world. So let's call out Nintendo for example, cuz they've done a great job at developing stories and IP within their company. So you have a Mario driven subnet that's able to speak and communicate with the Pokemon Subnet, um, as far as assets being held in a wallet and the credability and composability of the, um, Money, right? The currency that's being leveraged in these universes. And that could all be done on subnets, powered by Avalanche work messaging to allow for that seamless, you know, liquidity sharing between those two different worlds, even though it's under the same umbrella of n Nintendo. So that's kind of two different models, right? The band together and build the platform together. And then, you know, publishers that are just kind of building their own world within itself. Um, well that's, I've never thought of that use case. That's, that, that could be really, really fired depending on like how people decide to integrate. You know, like if using Nintendo as an example, if you decide to like integrate Pokemon with Super Mario Brothers in some sort of way, maybe, maybe you can play Super Mario and Pokemon, maybe, maybe Bowser becomes like some sort of Pokemon like, or maybe as you continue to. Trade and buy Pokemon on Pokemon, you're earning this currency that you can then send over to, there's a Super Mario world that uses that exact same currency. And so I, I, I, I love, I love kind of talking about this stuff because when you think about how games were in the, in the past, let's say, um, when you played a game and you finished with the game, you were, you were just, you were just finished. That's just what it was. Uh, but we're, we're seeing all this development to kind of take things a lot further than what we've seen in the past. And like, it's super exciting. And, um, Nathan, with Landslide, I know you had un paused earlier and I think I might've cut you off. Did you have anything that you wanted to put, say? Yeah, there's a great interview with the, with the, with Goon, uh, from Ava Labs and with the head of the development with, with Gonz. And they go through, um, a lot of these. Fine details about like how they craft the actual weapons, like literally from a physical object. Um, and, and, and, and, and how that like, just the, the level of detail and the reason that's relevant is because those are the assets that are like turned into tradable assets. Dude, that's gonna be massive. Like, uh, just to make sure I heard you right, Nathan, you said that they modeled their asset off of like the real life asset. So it has pretty much the same detail. So like hired a gun, like literally a gun machinist to come in and build a gun that could not like exist in the real world, but can exist within a game. So yeah, it looks sick. Oh, that is so fucking fire. What, like, even with just having, um, was, was Neil, Neil Blanc, I'm, I'm not gonna be able to say the name, but you guys know what I'm talking about. Even with just having, having him as a, as a, um, chief storyteller of the project is a huge thing because I like to think about, you know, like what, um, what Fortnite has been doing, you know, where they've been doing these kind of collaborations with artists and like, like for instance, the Travis Scott collaboration where they kind of added this whole, it's literally an entire storyline basically of Travis Scott stomping around in the Fortnite realm to like an entire song. Um, but that's just some of the, the creative things that we've seen in the past. And I'm super excited to see what will happen with like, let's say a Godzilla to where they literally hired like a chief storyteller, someone extremely creative, extremely successful. With District nine, that is an amazing movie. If everyone, if, if we haven't seen it out there, please check it out. Um, and I'm, I'm very curious to see the kind of creativity that's gonna come out of, of a mind like that and then how that's gonna be integrated within the whole, like, battle royale realm. Like, that's, that's gonna be super cool. Um, now moving, moving a little bit forward here, uh, park, I, I wanted to talk a little bit about the beam subnet. Can you kind of just kind of give us a little overview about that? Yeah, happy, happy to go into that. The team at Merit Circle and the Ava Labs team have joined together to, you know, support the vision of the Beam subnet. And so what that looks like is Merit Circle is kind of finding their, their niche in the world. And I think they've done a great job of, of identifying successful gaming web three gaming projects. And they've backed them through their, uh, investment dow, which they, you know, they're really positioning themselves as a web three gaming, Dow, and a lot of these portfolio companies that they have invested, they are now onboarding them onto the beam subnet and, and kind of a publishing format. The Beam team is creating a platform on top of a subnet with tools that are essential for games to go live. So N F T Marketplace Wallet Solution, Fiat on-Ramp, off-Ramp Solution. So you'll be able to, you know, these game developers will be able to easily deploy their games, deploy their assets onto the beam subnet, and gamers will be able to easily onboard through, you know, super seamless wallet creation process using, um, I forget what the wallet provider is. They're, they're leveraging, but, um, you know, easily accessible via email, password login. You don't have to memorize 12 digit codes or 12 character codes to, you know, onboard into Web three. Uh, and I think they're doing a great job at bringing games to market successfully on a subnet. That's really what I would say this team is, is, uh, in a, in essence, essence, they are, uh, really just a. Game publisher. And that's really what they're trying to, to scale and be, in my opinion. I think that's great. Dude. I, I, oh my goodness, there's so many, there's so many great things that's coming out with, especially with that beam subnet. Cause you know, I think about, you know, like we're, we're talking about it right now, but, uh, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, park, but has hasn't launched yet. I don't think it has. It has not launched yet. It will be launching in, it'll be launching soon. I, I don't know what I could say or, or what I know. Uh, but it'll be launching soon. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. Nah, no, I just wanted to just point that out because, um, like we're, we're all talking about this and we're at like ground zero right now, right? Like it hasn't even launched. Um, but, you know, but what happens when the Beam subnet has launched? Right. And then now this, this, this new found ability for game developers to very easily develop their game for Web three using the tooling that Beam Subnet has provided, uh, what is that gonna do to subnets? Right. You know, uh, cuz if we think about the landscape right now, we have about 400 subnets on Fuji, which, you know, that's a lot, man. That's, you know, that's public fantastic, you know, but if we think about how we've reached that number of 400, um, and it's very hard to build a subnet right now. It's very hard. It's very complicated. Um, uh, there's not a lot of people who have done it in the space. There's not a lot of people you can talk to about it in the space. Um, if, if we think about how we still reach that about, say, Nathan, my bad, I hear there's a company called Gogo Pool that makes it a lot easier. Dude, I, I love, I love Nathan. Nathan. Nathan probably plugs Gole Pool more than I plug Gole Pool. I almost feel like I'm doing a bad job cause of Nathan, but I did, I did set that up perfectly for a smooth slam dunk. Thank you. Thank you very much for that, Nathan. Um, yeah, you know, and, and Gogo pool has also launched as well, which we make it extremely easy for, well, we're making it easier, I should say, for people to launch subnets and to launch validators, um, for set subnets, you know, at half cost and all that good stuff. But, you know, set all those things to say because we are doing so much with so little that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. That's, uh, that's, that's a little, that's a little quote that I always say to myself, right? But you know, it holds truth with, with avalanche, right? Like, technology is so, so, so new. And it's is, it's is, it's literally the wild, wild west of technology right now. And 400 subnets are being built. What is gonna happen when a beam comes out and a game developer can very, very easily build one. You know, that's the kind of stuff that, that, that, that keeps me awake now, now Park that they announce what games that they would be bringing on to the Subnet yet? Yeah, so they will be bringing on several of their portfolio companies. Uh, one of them that I'm pretty excited about is Trial Extreme. So if you remember the man, the mobile game where you're basically on a two-dimensional plane, you're driving a motorcycle and you gotta go up obstacles and, you know, make it through the terrain in order to get to the end of each different track. Uh, I probably a terrible job explaining it, but is this, is this a stick figure game, like a flash game? It's, uh, it used to be. Yeah, exactly. But this one's much more. I, I think the art's much more appealing and kind of upgraded to where it was back in, in that time. I, I tried to post to the, uh, big screen, but I'm kind of, uh, not the best at Twitter spaces when it comes to posting stuff. But I, I commented below the Gogo Pool tweet, which is the beam announcement. And if you go onto their actual, um, Twitter page, it'll show below that tweet the list of games that are dropping and it'll, it kind of goes into it. So it's Trial Extreme Walker World. Play hash rush. And then there's a couple more that maybe aren't publicly announced, but they will be going live upon the beam's deployment and really looking forward to that. I, um, I wanted to kind of go back though to the point you're bringing up about the, the beam, the 400, you know, subnets that are deploying. What's really cool in my opinion about Beam is that it's powered by the mc token. And so with that, it's a decentralized, you know, gaming dow all of these investors and, and parts part of their community can, you know, take place in the reward mechanism of the subnet. And you know, eventually I believe that beam will be opening their subnet up to be permissionless. And I think that. With what Gogo Pool's doing. It could be really cool for helping these community members and mc token, you know, investors, uh, create and spin up their own validators to be, you know, even more part of the community and ecosystem. So I think that's one thing that really makes a lot of sense for, uh, collaboration between you two. So, wanted to bring that up cause I think it's, it's relevant. Hey, I, I really, really appreciate you for bringing that up park and that's, that's something we're, we're definitely down to, you know, talk about that collaboration with them, um, if, if possible. So yeah, we, we, we could talk a little bit more about that off base, but, um, For sure something that we would be, we would be interested in. And you said, so it's going to be, it's gonna be governed, well ran by the, the MC token. And the community is gonna have that ability because they have this mc token to participate within, um, within the subnet. And also I would assume game rewards based off stake in the token, et cetera, et cetera. Um, now I said all that to say that, you know, I love these new kind of business models that are coming out of, and coming out specifically because of subnet infrastructure. Uh, because, you know, it's the only infrastructure to where, you know, these, these companies can build a, uh, a web three product, a blockchain and also have it be, um, governed by, well, uh, I'm not saying governed, but, um, it's used by its own token. So it, it creates the situation to where users. Like the community can actually get involved with the game and actually benefit as well. Cause again, I'm gonna, I'm gonna harken back to the past, you know, you know, think about how much, how many hours that you've put into, into games, um, park, what was your, what was your go-to game back when you were a little, little Youngen? Uh, when I was a weed boy, um, I, it depends, uh, if I was in the car, you know, I was always playing Pokemon on the game boy, if I was at home, I was probably on either the Nintendo 64 playing Super Smash Bros, maybe even, uh, Mario Super Mario Bros. I think Super Mario. Bos three was one of my first games to really like, enjoy playing and then scaled up into Halo when I was in sixth grade. And honestly been more of a competitive shooter, uh, ever since then. So, so I asked you that cause I wanted you Alright. To say all those games and then now the next thing I want you to think about Park is how many hours in total of your life that you have sunk into these games? I've got at least a couple years on me, man. Yeah, it's been a lot man. I, I don't have a, a number, but I would say like my counterstrike number is well above, you know, a thousand, 2000 hours, which is, I don't even, I don't even want to translate that in the days and years cuz it's, it's a lot. But luckily I've never, I've never been much for the, uh, r t s grind games where you're really just having to grind out time and energy to, you know, reap rewards of the game and progress much more. Just get in, play a couple games with the boys and, and get out. So that's, that's usually how my, my gaming lifestyle, what it consists of. Nathan, I saw you on pause real quick before you go. Uh, just wanted to wrap up that whole thought. Um, so he's putting thousands of hours into these games and, and realized that none of it was incentivized. It was all just, I love this game. It's fun to play. So I'm playing it now. Imagine a world where you're actually incentivized to play these games and like how that's gonna change up, change the landscape. We're gonna see entire video game careers that are gonna happen. Not just like, I'm like an eSports kind of per like, no, like, like literal careers. I am. I, I played this game. I started off really enough and now, you know, this is my career. Um, I bad Nathan. You got it from here. Alright. Uh, can, would you like me to ask a sort of tangential question in regards to ai, or do you want me to keep it focused? Brey. I always want you to ask your, your tangential questions, Nathan. Ok. So park. So park, when, what are you seeing in terms of like, uh, like as Minecraft, you know, there are LLMs that get loose in Minecraft and um, there are, there are full on games being, uh, like one by ai. What do you think the future looks like as AI kind of takes over? Oh man. Really getting deep today, dude. Um, it's a good question. I think there's gonna be a lot of government regulation that, I don't know which way it takes with ai, but I think something's gonna have to happen to prevent a lot of, like, especially the gaming market from just being overtaken. Um, anti cheats are definitely going to have to be. Created like very robustly. And then I think even like to the point of having to have like biometrics when you sign in to play a game, be a requirement, even though that sounds kind of cumbersome, uh, to me that sounds like a solution, right? Unless an AI can figure out how to pass a biometrics exam, which man, if we're at that point, I think we're, we're doomed anyways. But yeah, that's, that's my take. I think there's gonna have to be some like, login requirements to avoid any of that taking place. Uh, interesting. Uh, um, given that we're in a crypto space and that the, the, there is no clear regulation, what makes you think that they'll come and help us in games? I don't think we'll get help in games per se. I think just the regulatory body that will be, you know, protecting, its, um, I guess citizens will step in just because it, you know, it's, it's gonna be a problem, right? If you have a rogue ai takeover, a video game, then especially if that video game's hyper financialized with blockchain, um, it could be a big problem. So there's gonna have to be something late, like some groundwork laid there to protect, you know, the government's citizens and, and the gamers inevitably are, are part of that. Uh, yeah, very. I don't know. It, it could go a lot of different ways. That's just a high level take. Uh, well the, what will be interesting to see is how development, game development changes over time. Because, I mean, the new mid journey 5.2 is like gonna, is a game changer for, for just video and then runway and everything that's coming out is just like a blur. Um, You know, you, you'll be able to make a, a really compelling game with one or two people. Um, and it, it's gonna be, I I would say that if I could bet on an AI gamer, uh, as well as a, like a physical gamer, there should, you know, uh, merit circle should really, uh, take that bet up. Who would, who would you bet on in a situation where it's AI versus a human? Uh, didn't they, didn't they do the star? Uh, they, they, ai I would say in general, like given a long, a long enough period of time, I guess. Mm-hmm. I guess that does make sense. When you said long enough period of time, I bet I saw you, uh, unmute part. You got it. Alpha Star. Alpha Star did that, right? Didn't they build the, the, you know, alpha go beat the best, uh, uh. Almost the the best gamer, uh, in, um, chess. Yeah. Deep Mind to play StarCraft to two. Ah, yeah. Yep. It was StarCraft two. No way. Yeah, dude, they beat, they beat StarCraft two with Deep Mind. Okay, so, damn. Cause I was gonna actually go for the humans shit. I'm gonna give my perspective on why we, why we should go for the humans. All right, so, so, so humans have this one, one, this, this cool thing to where we can be like creative. And I know that doesn't mean much to the AI guys cuz the AI is like, oh, we can be creative, but AI can be creative within what has already been created, if that makes sense. So like, if there is a brand new form of art that comes out, AI can't be creative within that art. AI can also create a brand new form of art, but humans can create brand new forms of things. So my perspective was to go for the human, because technically, if a human has the information on the AI and the way the AI plays, then that they can then make a brand new way of playing. So, so that, that was my wife, my wife said in the background, said, it's all just data sets. Um, if you look at, I, I'll, I, I agree with you in principle Revy, but like in reality, I, I think what we've seen is something different. Like if you look at the way that, um, That certain games are being played. If they're, if they're allowed to have an AI in them, they'll come up with completely novel ways of beating the game that you haven't actually considered. Like what amounts to sort of a ga cheat code getting, getting the ball up into the pong where it kind of crushes all the blocks from the top of the ceiling rather than the traditional route of like, you know, at the bottom of the screen sending the stuff out. So there are like the, the idea that we are gonna be living in a world where, where we understand what AI is even building is a, like a, a, you know, a fiction of our imagination there. We're gonna be in a world where, where AI's creating art we don't even understand. So like, ha having, I I, I, I guess, uh, I, I'll throw it back to park. Like, park. What, what are you seeing in terms of like AI game development and as it relates to, uh, I don't know, uh, civil protection mechanisms? Well, well, first I'll, I'll speak on one thing. I think that the gaming industry has become very, um, marginal with, with how games are developed. You know, there it's, we, we've become much more money focused and making games as opposed to making really fun games. And I think AI is going to be, you know, maybe a hot take, but I think it's gonna be very good for the gaming market because it will reduce the, you know, capital expense of having on like, you know, per like, I guess, higher artists and game developers significantly. And so I think that will make the margins much better for gaming to a point where they can, you know, be fun again. And maybe that's the, the campaign for, for AI is making gaming fun again. But I think that's a big value plus. And so the, the second point you, you mentioned was like, for preventing cyber attacks, I think blockchain might actually play a. Successful role in that somehow some way by being able to have better identify your player base to the point where you can recognize whether or not your player is in fact an AI or a bot purely based on their digital identity that's tied to their digital wallet. So that's, um, is that, does that answer your question? I think I might have gone on a crazy tangent if it didn't. That's right. I was trying to, I was, yeah. Was that where you're lead me to? Okay. Glad I could catch the layup. Thanks. Yep. Just, um, asking this question for a perspective. So traditionally most AI and games just fucking stupid and, and, and terrible. Um, I'm actually, I'm gonna pitch this over to Nathan. Nathan, what do you, how do you think AI is gonna affect the way that AI works in games? Like when you're fighting, like enemies and whatnot, do you think that they, it would make us, that they're actually like a viable enemy? Um, um, I, I get your point. Um, you know, even in a world where, where we have like an all powerful group of ais, we'll still need like, entertainment. So like, you know, having a good, you can't really be, it's not fun anymore. If you can't like, beat the enemy, you'll just get really frustrated. Um, you know, I bre I, I, you know, my, my, the question about like, human creativity is like related to like, you know, the puzzles we, and we, we create growing up and like what we're exposed to and like the algorithms that were given as kids and, you know, the environment that we grew up in. So, but, you know, just like the novel, the novel mechanisms that you get just by throwing huge numbers of experiments at the wall is just, you know, it, it's getting to that point of, of whatever hu human creativity is. Um, I, so I, yeah, from a, from a gaming perspective, I'm just curious. Like, you know, I'm sure Parks sees like a ton of volume of interesting stuff. Uh, you know, a a a human gaming doo will probably take place as long as it can argue against AI players, I guess. Yeah, there's probably gonna be some, some sort of huge press run media run about AI players versus human players. And then everyone's gonna be, human player is gonna be shitty about AI players, blah, blah, blah. You know, we know how it's gonna go, but Yo, Alex, I see you. So, I, I think so. To, to kinda give you some context. I'm not somebody like, I never really played that much that, that many games coming up, but, um, but I think. Think like we always talk about gaming and fun, and I think that's like one really important dimension, but in terms of like games and virtual reality and kind of ai, I think we're missing the boat on the implications of that AI and games can have on like businesses and training and learning. Um, my, my cousin actually works for, uh, for a company out in San Francisco that is doing like AI kind of virtual reality software for, you know, um, training, um, kind of like the quote unquote minimum wage worker, um, who's stacking shelves at, um, you know, at some like big like Amazon type type, type conglomerate, right. I think, I think there's that, there's a lot of power in AI and games as a training tool for businesses and I'm, I'm really excited and curious to see how those things will progress. I don't necessarily think they need on chain things yet, but, um, you could imagine where you could have on chain type activities that tie to your progress, um, and then you get paid in some way or compensated in some way for that. Um, but just curious, have you guys thought much about that? Is there anybody working on that kind of stuff right now? I, I mean, I've thought, I've thought about it and I just, it's sort of federated, right? It's sort of a company thing and like, do you really wanna like stock shells and get Amazon, like NFTs, I don't know Brey. Do I want Amazon NFTs? It de it depends. Like if I'm just going off the top of the dome right now, fuck no. But like, that's my point. That's my point. Well, well, I don't mean well, well, I mean, like, first of all, no one, no one wants Amazon fcs. That's awesome. But yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Revi, but, but point more so that like, like you were like abbreviate, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, like you at one point worked at an Amazon warehouse, right? You damn right. I did. Yes, sir. And, and like they gave you guys training, right? Damn right. Yeah. Yeah. Great. So far. This is a great interview. Thanks. No, no. They, they gave us training. It's mostly safety training though, like, I mean, your job is quite literally the, the most simple task in the world. It's like, Hey, stack these boxes in this truck. This is, it's so straightforward. Fair, fair enough. I guess, I guess, I guess maybe there's places where like, you don't need as much kind of virtual reality type training, but the concept of like, even education for, um, people in school, right? Where we can bring in gaming or education or fucking math blaster, right? Um, but bringing it back to like, uh, games where, where people can learn that way. I think that's, at least for me, um, that's what gets me the most excited. Where the dimension isn't only fun, it's fun. And education or learning or training. No, that's, that's super real Alex. Uh, cause I've been seeing like, you know, videos of, you know, people, they, they, they think I'm seeing like, a lot of folks are gonna get started getting trained on like, vr, like I'm seeing like surgeons and stuff. Like they're creating, you know, like very, very, very highly detailed, um, but programs to where you can like, Almost feel it. Like it's, yeah, it's, things are gonna get super crazy, especially when Neuralink happens and you know, your brain can just get hacked and you can just see whatever they decide to make you see. Yeah, yeah. Before I take the, the Matrix rabbit pill, uh, PA Park, do you wanna talk a little bit more about, let's, let's throw this back to you, park, um, game distribution as it relates to exorbitant fees from incumbents. Man, took a while for you to, to write that one out, didn't it? That was, uh, that was, um, a great question. Are you, let me make sure I understand it because there's a lot big words there. I'm on the BD team. Let's keep that in mind. Um, hey, hey, hey. You were also at Oracle that Yeah, exactly. I was also at Oracle. Um, So you, you talking about listing fees on like platforms such as Steam, epic Game Store or you talking about Yeah. Apple All. Yeah. Yeah. I think demand, I, I think we need to see a successful moment and web three gaming for these marginalized fees to diminish, uh, because right now they're doing it strictly to be, uh, pretty, uh, what's the word? I, I guess it'd really just kind of be greedy, right? They know people need to list, there's not other better options for them. But I think once they realize that the people can figure out loopholes and, and do that, say they list on, there's a lot of web three solutions right now. I know the Apple store, I haven't, I haven't seen a mobile app, although I think the Elixir Games. Team, which is, however you wanna explain it, steam of web three type of product. I believe they have a mobile product for distribution. And so I think all we really need to see is, is some games blow up on these alternative distribution, uh, platforms for the Apples, the steams, uh, so on and so forth. So the world to, you know, pull back on those pretty, I guess, vampiric margins. Yeah, I think cuz that was, um, one of the issues Defi mods was having when they were, um, talking to the app store about deploying on there and they wound up taking like a, a hybrid web two slash web three business model. I saw you on, uh, unmute. What's up? Oh no, I was just gonna say Uhhuh Uhhuh. See they took hybrid. I don't even know where I was going now. Which, which it don't matter anyway, dog D five mods man, they're doing a hybrid web two, web three model, um, because the fees are super crazy. But you know, I was trying to, I was, I was asking'em about like an alternative and I think you brought up a good one. Park with Elixir. I, that's not something that I was kind of privy to. Um, but you said they are the kind of web three version of steam. Yeah, there, there's actually several of these Web three steams in, in the market, and I think one of them will find success. And when they do, I think that's, you know, like what I was saying, when we find that pivotal moment with the main distribution channels kind of capitulating and allowing for the, these apps to be listed. But yeah, there's Elixir games. I know Hyper Play announced a pretty significant raise that they funded, um, or, or finalized a, a few weeks ago, right before three xp, uh, was very, very like, successful raise. So I was, I was impressed by that. So they, they probably have a pretty good chance of being successful if they can, you know, really use that funding to kind of flywheel them into a, a pretty solid distribution cycle. Uh, there's several others too that I'm sure I'm leaving out. And so by no means am I. Playing favoritism to these two. There's several good options out there. And, and honestly at this point with, if you're a web three developer building a web three game, uh, I think more is more in this case instead, you know, traditionally, like less is more, right? Just, just build on steam. But right now, I think use whatever distribution channels you can to get visibility to your games, because right now we're really in a user acquisition mode for web three gaming. Like how do we get games or how do we get users to play our games, right? And and a lot of that comes down to distribution and getting visibility. A lot of it comes down to having a fun game and letting word of mouth do the talking. But you know, if you have a fun game and you have distribution channels that are easily accessible, it's, you know, you, you'll get users. So that's my, my long-winded pitch there. But yeah, I'm excited about it. Park, what, what, what can you, what can you share with the game devs who are listening to this? Like what, what are the, what are the paths? What are the things to avoid? Yeah, I, I would say don't list your game on Steam if you have blockchain integrations with it, or you will get barred and dismembered and it's not fun. But there are solutions that we're seeing at the Believe portal Fantasy just announced their deployment onto the steam, uh, launcher, and they've basically taken away any blockchain elements from it. However, your identity is saved between instances. So if you do want to claim an N F T, you can go to their standalone website or game page to, you know, be more on the web three side of it and claim ownership over those assets. Uh, but when you're playing the actual game, there's no ability to trade. So I think if you're a game developer, be creative. There's no limitations to the distribution, like the means of distribution. If you just. Think smart about it, but also, you know, make sure you play within the rules of the regulatory body. I know right now we're seeing a lot of uncertainty in the market with respect to NFTs and security laws. So I think if you're a game developer, just make sure you're receiving proper counsel and, and to, you know, it's not a time in the market to make risky decisions. It's already a very risky time in the market, so be smart. How, how is gon zilla doing their distro? That is a great question actually, and one I should have a quick answer to, but I, I actually don't have the quick answer to that, but I'm happy to, to follow up and, and maybe I'll tag a tweet after this, uh, with the answer. Cool. That's, that's love, man. Appreciate you park. Um, so we're coming up at, around that, uh, that hour mark here. I'm gonna open things up for closing remarks from our panel of speakers here. And, uh, we're gonna start off with my, we're gonna start off with Alex. Man, we haven't heard too much from Alex. What's going on my friend? Yo, I thought, um, great job. Uh, park talk, talk about this. It was super interesting and especially considering all the distribution systems. Um, and I think I'm really bullish on how avalanche Avalanche is considering, is working towards becoming like a, a kind of a game chain. Um, I know it's been a bunch of other things, but I think it's doing a really good job finding a home, uh, for games specifically. So I appreciate you coming on very, anytime when Bre hits my dms, I respond and he really appreciates you for, for your response. And, and that goes for anybody watching. I might not be the quickest at it, but if you ever have questions how, you know, anything I can do to help, my dms are always open. You heard it here, folks, his dms are always open, so make sure you hop in his dms and say some wildly ridiculous shit. Um, directly after this is all open. I said, we all just do it. So that'd be like 10 dms for him to just kind of fuck his day over with. So here's, here's a closing remark. Brey, what's Gogo Pool's? Um, plan to get, uh, subnet developers and, and gaming subnet developers. Ooh, I like, I like, I like that you asked that. Um, so as, as of right, as of right now, um, what we're doing is we're, we're growing pretty, we're growing pretty naturally. Um, so we've been kind of looking for, we're actually looking for BD people actually right now. Um, but we are taking a bunch of leads from Avalanche so far. So we are working with a few different teams. I can't. Of course talk about any of it. But, um, there are partnerships that I actually can talk about now actually. We just, uh, we just announced our first, uh, official hardware partner and that is ods. And we're gonna be doing a campaign with ods from July 5th through July 10th for anyone out there who has an eight avalanche validator or has been interested in becoming an avalanche validator for one thing, I know you thought it was 2000 vacs, but boom, it's not baby, it's 1100 vacs right now through Gogo Pool and not on top of that. I know some folks think it's like$2,000 a month to run a validator. It's not baby. No, it is not. No, it is not. You can run with through UNOS for like$40 dog. So, and, and UNOS is doing 20% off for that range. So from July 5th through July 10th, UOS. A hardware provider is going to be giving you 20% off. So that way you can get your node ID from them. You can head on over to Gogo Pool, put that node ID in, uh, with 1100 vacs. And next thing you know, you got a mini pool and you're not just earning vac staking fees. No, man, that's not enough. Doc. You earn AVAC staking fees, node operator commission and a share of the 52,500 G G P rewards that come out every single month. And at current value that is somewhere around 90 to a hundred thousand dollars per month getting shared around, um, all the different mini pools that are with us. So make sure you go ahead and check out Gogo Pull. You know, click on my profile. Hit follow if you're not already hitting follow. Um, dang it. I want it to be last, Nathan. Cause I was gonna do whole s done. This whole s. Nah, man. You gotta get your closing remarks too. Parks closing remarks. I got, I don't, I don't got any closing remarks. It's fine. No, none for you. What about Park? Park? You got closing remarks? Everybody go check out. Go go pool. Yeah, I'm talking about, but yeah, friends remarks, man. I'm glad you guys have me up. Always a pleasure. Hey man, I'm, I'm glad you were able to hop on today, man. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Very sad that we got to talk maybe for like two seconds at Avalanche Summit. I know your ass was all sweaty, man, wearing that costume all damn day, dude. I was, dude, I was sweating my ass off, bro. It was crazy. Son. Like for anyone who saw the um, go mascot in the. Avalanche Summit recap video. We did not hire a person to do that. That is me. That is me in the job description, dude. That's, that's why it gave me a very, very generic job description. I, I am growth strategies. Just the, the all encompassing. What's this costume? They said it's too big. You gotta grow into it. So let's punch there. Now, everyone out there, make sure you go ahead. Make sure you hit follow on my guy. Park right now. Really, really quick. If you're not following park, you are doing yourself a huge disservice, especially if you wanna know about what's going on in, uh, avalanche gaming. Make sure you make sure you're following landslide as well. Doing yourself a very huge disservice if you're not following landslide, because that means you don't know what's going on when he brings cosm Wam zones to subnets. And you gotta make sure you know what the hell's going on with that. So make sure you following them. Click on the tap, tap the profile. Hit follow. You already know Savvy Defi. Make sure you following them. Just launch baby over a million dollars in T B L. And they just launched non liquidated lines of credit. For anyone out there who's ever gotten liquidated, I'm gonna assume that's every single person who's listening to this. If you've ever invested in crypto in any sort of way, you probably got, you probably got liquidated. Make sure you're checking them out. And then on the Gogo pool side of things, dude, we launching validators at half cost. Dude, it's 50% off. It's, it's really just obvious for me. That's why like I don't talk about it too much. It's fucking obvious. Launch about through Gogo Pools. It's obvious. Anyway, everyone out there, we do this weekly, every Wednesday at three Pmm, E S T Baby, you know the best place to beat. That's with Savvy D Landslide and G G P. I'm gonna do my usual saying, everybody, you don't gotta go home, but you gotta get a phone outta here y'all. Peace.