The Decentralized Peer to Peer Web Hosting Service Challenging AWS(F)

GoGoPool, Landslide + Savvy Defi talked to P2P Cloud about how they're challenging the big players in the web hosting industry with their decentralized web hosting platform.

Social Links:
GoGoPool Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoGoPool_
Savvy DeFi Twitter: https://twitter.com/SavvyDeFi
Landslide Twitter: https://twitter.com/CosmosAVAX

Transcript

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Everyone too. The avac ecosystem space. I am one of your lovely hosts. My name is Brey. I work for Gogo Pool. Um, I do growth marketing strategies for Gogo Pool. If you don't know what Gogo Pool is, we are a permissionless liquid staking protocol that helps avalanche validators and subnets launch for half cost, baby. Yeah, that's right. Half cost. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about Gogo Pool, as well as Nathan's experience, uh, validating, well, spinning up his validated through Gogo pool, and we call those mini pools. Um, I'm joined here by my lovely co-host and you already, you already know about this guy here. I'm joined by Nathan of landslide. Landslide protocol is bringing the cosmos to avalanche. Subnets say, what's up my friend? Good day. We are gonna expand to e as well, which means other E Heavy, by the way, uh, Uniprop just announced they're, they're, they're launching natively to avalanche, so that's super cool. That's happening via layer zero, so right on. Yeah, that's absolutely fucking huge. Unis swapped. There was another huge announcement too. It was unis Swap and I feel like there was one more huge announcement. Um, there was, there was another, uh, evergreen announcement recently about institutional clients. I think, see that's also five. No, I think it, it was something about like somebody's making like a, a, a decentralized sequencer for roll-ups. Basically, we're going to be a, their, their subnet is going to be a layer two for E and I'm, I'm blanking on the name right now. But anyway, that's besides the point. Let's focus on our speakers. Here. I am joined Drum. Bye. Yes, let's go. I am joined here with by Germany and Ilya of P two P Cloud, decentralized cloud services. Say what's up my friends? Yo, you. Hey. What's up? What's up? Yo? So happy to have you, folks. Very excited to talk about, uh, what you folks are building. Uh, you know what, I'm gonna go over the agenda real quick and then we're just gonna get straight into this thing, my friends. Uh, so for everyone out there, we're gonna start things off with a nice interview with P two P Cloud. Uh, we're gonna talk about their crypto story, how they land on a vxx. They're gonna give an overview of P two P cloud. We're going to, how they're gonna be further decentralizing cloud services and what benefits that's gonna bring to hardware providers. Um, then we're also, of course gonna talk about why avac and how this's gonna benefit, you know, the end user, which is those node operators as well. Uh, after that, we'll, we'll open things up. We'll talk to Nathan about his experience. Getting a go-go pool mini pool, man. I'm so happy that you're with the squad now, my friend. Uh, we'll talk about his experience and then as long as we have enough time and if Germany and Ilia are down, we'll of course talk about what's going on with the Twitter versus threat thing. Like who's gonna win, who's not gonna win. Definitely excited to talk to Nathan about that'cause Nathan has been super on it with the information. So I'm excited to, uh, hear your perspective, Nathan. Now to get into everything I'm gonna pick on you first. Germany. Can you kind of give us your crypto story? How'd you land here on avac? Oh man. So, ironically enough, so I'm like agnostic across the board, but what really got me into Ax was a good partner actually. My, actually it's really my, pretty much my best friend Alia. So,'cause like telling me that we were like building a P D P on top of ax, I was like, oh word. And that's when I started to dive in and the more I kept researching what. Avalanche was doing. We even went to the, um, avalanche summit at up over in Barcelona and I started to discover more and more what the community was doing. I was like, oh hell yeah, this is like dope. And started to see the potential in terms of um, what the subnets can bring and how, I mean, honestly in terms of acceptor decentralization, that is exactly what we, we need as well. So that's like my personal intro. Ilea, you wanna share yours? Yes, yes, yes. So I landed on evx, so I, we were researching which chain to base, uh, P two P cloud on, uh, it was two candidates, IX and Solana. And then I told this to my wife, and then she is like, are you joking or what? That's how we chose ix. No. Okay. Wow is awesome by the way. Alright. Yeah. Besides the jokes. Yes. First of all, it's, uh, community. Community is amazing. Uh, in Evx. It's not like idealist community that's, uh, down to earth people who understand how to do business, but how to do decentralization to kind of balance between, uh, both sides, like corporate side and the pure decentralized side, and also the tech. I mean, for me personally, the main reason is the tech, like, uh, avalanches, virtual machines, uh, on subnet. We basically can launch any blockchain technology or you can develop your own blockchain pretty them easier and quickly. That's, uh, that was the deciding factor for me. Yes. Like we need, we, we want to customize our VMs however we want. All good ALANCHE covers us. I love. Yeah. Dinging, dinging, dinging. Love that my friend. And I, I, you said something kind of specific too. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna like, I'm missing the word here right now, but, um, coming from a blockchain, like, let's say like Terra Luna, it's, it was very almost culty at times. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, uh, like this echo chamber of, oh, we're the greatest. Um, but you know, when I, when I came here on Avalanche, uh, it's, it's definitely a lot less toxic in that, in that specific manner where it's definitely a more open community to hearing about what's, what else is happening on other blockchains and, and bringing in other technologies and other thoughts and ideas coming from other blockchains, and then bringing it into what's going on at Avalanche now, Ilya and Germany. I gotta actually talk to you a little bit. We gotta get to, to the specifics too, as well. Like what kind of specifically interested you about subnets? VMs, VMs, the ability to customize blockchains, like not being stuck with solidity or anything else, like, uh, because we don't know where the future will take us technologically. So that's why we, yes, we chose avalanches. So we can customize VMs, we can modify it even, even after deployment. Yes. And for me, I think, um, what interests me most about step nests is security as well as the scalability. Ironically enough, um, one of the first ever like crypto project I was working on project would not be named, but yeah, they were like going into sharding, like one of the first implementations off of, um, sharding and we were kind of going into the security parameters of What does that entail? Oh crap. I just found a pocket watch. Oh, sorry. I'm like walking around. I'm like in the park and I just saw like a shiny pocket watch. Sorry. But, um, Nice. All right, cool. Now keep going though, bro. So I was, um, I was going to security because if you think about it, the fact that you can like fully customize your own subnet, have your own different, uh, validator sets and rules, you can really, it's really hard to hack it. I always like bring our, for simplest terms, break down the um, um, analogy of apple and windows, right? Most of the world's infrastructure is like built up of windows machines. Therefore people, this is obviously like a very 10,000 foot up. It's not actually like something serious. This is for the sake of just simplicity for the audience, but. You can, of course people are gonna build more viruses on top for, to attack windows because that's where most of the, uh, assets are now. I'm opposed to like, you know, Mac for instance, even though Mac is like super secured, it's a little slightly like, a little bit more difficult to make a virus, uh, for, for that exact reasons. So we start breaking things down into subnets. Then it really kind of, or like for me it just shows like, oh wow, we can actually have a really secure network that'd be a little bit harder to penetrate unless you're already in it. But that's always gonna evolve as well as for the, um, scalability. So instead of it all being on top of one ecosystem with like to say like a set amount of, um, validators to compute, they can all like kind of break it down into TALs in terms of you can have these like, uh, micro verification that all like rolls up into the greater, um, shard or the, um, network. So that was like pretty much it for me. I actually really, really loved that Germany.'cause um, I've had kind of like a, like a similar kind of thought, especially with the, with the scaling, um, coming from, let's say a, a, a chain where, you know, I, I felt like teda could scale, but also at the time it was breaking. Like if there was like a huge N F T launch or there was a huge project launch, the entire network would slow down. You'd stop being able to process transactions or it'd take a long time to process transactions, et cetera, et cetera. And all that's happening because there's so many projects launching at the same time. So, so much development happening, um, that there's just, and they have a bad consensus algorithm and that. And I and I, and then I come over here onto Avalanche and really just avalanche in general, like right now, where it's sitting at right now with just the sea chain, uh, I'm, I'm, I've never had any issues processing transactions. Uh, transaction fees are always low and I came into Avalanche. I wouldn't say I came into the avalanche, the height, the bull market, but I definitely didn't come in. I came in towards the bottom of the bull market. But I mean, you know, to come onto here and there's been no issues whatsoever with how much that I know that I use Defi. It's, uh, it's just really just a blessing to be over here and it, it really kind of gives credence in what you guys are talking about as far as what the technology that Avalanche has provided. Now, I think this is, uh, we'll, we'll go into a nice segue over here. We gotta talk a little bit about P two P Cloud specifically. Um, can you guys give just a quick overview to the audience out there about what you folks are building? Yeah. So B two P, we are just a, we are centralized cloud marketplace, so think about it like a w s, Microsoft Azure, um, Google Cloud where we created marketplace where anyone can like, create and deploy like a ING machine, ideally, like on any chain at any time they want. So that's like it, like a, yeah. High level. All right, so high level, let's go into low level. What does that mean specifically? Like, say if I don't know anything about virtual machines, kind of like walk me through one and what a virtual machine is and then, and then two, um, how that works within, uh, the P two P cloud services. Oh, sorry, I was muted. Um, yeah, of course. So, and then, uh, sorry, you're gonna get deep. So virtual machine is just like an instance in which that you can host any application on, right? So think about it. You have a WordPress site, you have, or actually like any website, it's all being hosted on a server somewhere. Now, where that is, who knows, like for most cases it's being held on like, you know, a major cloud provider like Amazon, which is in one of the many data centers around. But the essence is, it is just to have a digital cloud for your, whatever your, um, operation you're working on, so you can kind of interact with it for like a third or for a low cost instead of hosting it in-house. And how we're leveraging that is we're taking the same like technology, which is like a virtual machine or just like a remote server. And we're saying, okay, how can we make this, um, well one economical, two secured and also like decentralized for everyone in terms of access, reliability, as well as security. And one of the things that we did was we was able to create a. What we call, well, it's called like a trust execution environment. So t e e for short. And actually, actually I'm gonna take, um, Ilya's example on this one. He, he loves, um, using it. So think about it like for those who have iPhones, right? Your face ID is stored in a chip on your iPhone that's encrypted. So even if I would've taken a chip and put in my phone, I would not have access to that phone, like no matter what because it's encrypted and stored. And so that will kind of help with the security part. And so when we start going, going down to the decentralization aspect is through the security is how we can actually decentralize the network. Meaning that if anyone who wants to like, you know, host a website or spin up a server to have like a, or host A A P R via a R P C provider, I don't necessarily have to trust you because the security is built natively in that. So now we're pretty much just taking everything that we already have, but distributing it similar to how you have different subnets on avalanche, but we're just distributing it in an effective way in which that anyone and everyone can participate as well as build whatever they want. Whether it's, again, hosting a, being like a R P C provider or an A P I or WordPress site deploying your iOS application, or even a data backup center, whatever the case may be, you can be able to do that, and I hope that answers it ly. Feel free to add to that if you want. Yeah, I can add a little bit. So basically the technology, the security layer of our application is based on, uh, the idea that you can host, you can put some, your program with like your private keys and your secret data on somebody's else. Computer and person with physical access to this computer would not be able to see what's inside, even though even they connect weird wires to memory, trying to understand what's, uh, going on C P U, it's impossible to decode that. Uh, this is a pretty fresh technology. Like basically it became somewhat usable in 2021. So it's like some kind of novelty. And it's usually, uh, used in finance sector. Uh, in government sector somewhere, um, somewhere where security, where physical security is not enough. Right. We usually trust to, with physical secu, we trust that our servers somewhere on a w s is physically secured, that a stranger cannot walk into data center and download our databases. Right? But if we're doing decentralized hosting where we don't know where servers are, we don't know the intent of a person who hosting them, maybe he's a hacker. So we have to use this kind of crypto technology. And we integrated this just execution environment technology with, uh, the blockchain. So basically using your core wallet or meta mask or whatever compatible wallet, you can interact with your virtual machines. You have to use this wallet, you can interact, you don't have this wallet. That's it. They're locked. And it also includes other moving pieces, uh, that require your interaction with your crypto wallets. But yeah, that's too much of a detail. Well, we can go through the trusted execution environments if you want. Uh, enclave market is one of the big sort of examples that Ava Labs points to, which is built on the Intel S G X. Do you want to go through what type of trust execution environment you guys have built? Yes, yes, yes. Uh, so Intel is direct. First of all, it's discontinued. Uh, so true. Second. Yes, true. So I don't think, like starting a project and then discontinued on a discontinued technology is same idea. And second of all, it's very limiting in terms of a memory. It can hold, uh, about, I think about 120 megabytes of memory encrypted at the same time, which is, I mean, not good if you are trying to run a, a MySQL database with 500 gigs of ram. Right? Uh, no way. So we needed something that's compatible with existing applications, right? Because, uh, We don't want, like, like there is like a cash goal. Both of them require some, uh, some modification, not, they're not so applicable for normal business. Uh, we we're trying to build something that's would be applicable for normal business. So in technical level, we are relying on, uh, AMDs, uh, trusted execution environment. Esp uh, on their third version, we have support for first se and second version. They're not that secure, but the version So is, which is the E P Y C processor for a m d? Yeah. Yeah. Epic. Yes, that's correct. Yes. We rely on, uh, third like for, for our main, our main functionality based on third one. But we also support the older ones, even though older ones, if you have like hacker, hacker, uh, with access to your, uh, computer, physically they can extract some data. So yeah, we're gonna discontinue first and second and rely on third one. Which is right now the latest and greatest technology in te and very underappreciated. So, um, like a, again, sort of a comparison, we can go into a caution golum comparisons if you want. I read through the, the blogs. Mm-hmm. So, but to address something, before we dive into that, um, you, you guys were saying you, you want to focus on actual sort of business use cases. Do you have an offering for like, GPUs and TPUs for these LLMs? Uh, uh, can you rephrase your question offering for just, yeah. So, so a lot of the, a lot of the compute in the marketplace right now is focused on, on training and running LLMs. Mm-hmm. So do you guys have a particular offering aimed at that market or are you still mostly focused on crypto stuff? Uh, we're focused on crypto people running, whatever. Right now we're focused on crypto people, but our idea is to go further into general compute market. So just crypto people easier to work with because they understand the point of decent decentralization. Just ideologically they're willing to sacrifice something. Uh, some incon they're willing to be to have some inconveniences. So in order to be decentralized, right, because normal business does not care about decentralization at all. Uh, yes. So in terms of, uh, in terms of GPUs, tpu, there is a technological problem that's solved by latest Nvidia, uh, G P U, I don't remember. I think it's called H 100 or something like that. Uh, so the problem is the, uh, PC express lanes are wide open. So basically if you're training your model with super sensitive and secure data, or your model, that's your intellectual property on a stranger's computer, they just plug another P c X press card and copy your models. Not that easy, but in the simple words like that, and just to, oh, sorry, but you, but, but more importantly, you couldn't create an attestation that that was not going to happen. That is possible only with one G P U. With the latest, uh, Nvidia, G P O, which cost a ton of money, I think, like Right. So you couldn't, so you couldn't prove the negative, right. You couldn't prove that, that it was executed in the smart, in a safe environment. Yes, that's correct. Right now it's technologically impossible except for this recently released G P O. Yes. Understood. And one other point, um, as well that we wanted to bring up outside of,'cause Yeah. Brought up a good point with that decentralization aspect for the general audience and another, um, use case that we're kind of experimenting out with as we start to, you know, hone in more on like, what is it the community like truly wants. And I, of course, like we all see it like everywhere we go. Like whether it's like on Twitter with the whole, with the latest news, what, a week or or two weeks ago with Twitter not paying the cloud providers. And so one of the, that totally happens by the way. They, they didn't pay their a w s bills. And that's the crazy part about it, um, as well, right? So outside of just having like, people who'd rather like make the sacrifice, but the thing is like you shouldn't have to sacrifice, like, for instance, security for decentralization. You shouldn't have to sacrifice costs for decentralization, which is why it's important for us to kind of just bridge that gap as best as possible. And I think I was talking to you, um, briefly about this, um, in terms of when we was looking at like, you know, for instance like, oh, how much of this is up a Ethereum node? It was. Like on a d s marketplace, it was like roughly like$1,200 and then we took the same specs and compared to our marketplace it was at, you know, 50 bucks or something around there, which is like insane. And that's like another, like part of the narrative that I think as a collective we should just kind of focus around, which is, hey, like Rent a Bear market. We're also like a lot of us are tech startups. Why sacrifice, you know, 67% of your raise just to go towards like, you know, the emperor costs, which is like another, um, angle as well that we're trying to get at. Yeah, me and you were talking dude. And um,'cause I had talked to a project dude and they got quoted like$2,000 a month and I was like, oh man, you don't gotta pay that bro. Like, Like with services like yours, a P two P cloud man, like you guys are really changing the game. Like if you really think about it here, man,$2,000 a month to, to like around 50 or even 1200 a month to 50, we're talking in an, an entire, we're talking a salary of a person, right? Whether that's, whether they decide to hire another dev so they can get the product out there quicker. Whether they decide to hire a marketer so that they can market the product to the right users and that you can actually know about it. Like these cost savings that, you know, uh, P two P cloud are presenting are gonna completely change the game. And actually, I gotta talk to you generally. How do you guys get the cost like that low? So actually, um, two things. One, I think that, uh, can we answer a quick question from Hanks or you wanna do it after? Oh no. Hank's profile picture just has a hand up. That is great that you actually thought his hand was up because we fuck with him all the time about that. That is fucking great, dude. That is Anyone who's ever watched the ecosystem space, they're gonna cry laughing when they hear that part because we fuck with'em about that all the time. Anyway. No, keep going. Germany. Watch that. So we actually do have a calculation for the hardware. Italy can actually talk more about that, but I know, like built into the protocol, we do have a calculation for hard drive, which is how much it, how much it actually costs. And I think we quoted on like an 18 month, uh, lifecycle. Can you go, go into that Ilia? Mm-hmm. Yes, that's correct. So in general, uh, simple answer to your question is eBay magic, uh, whatever you're trying to buy in terms of like, uh, hardware and in terms of high-end hardware, there's always. Some Chinese person selling it with direct shipping from China for like one fifths of the price of original one. And yeah, so eBay magic is a short, there is always a way to get like hardware, few times cheaper. And even if you buy brand new hardware from md, it's still like, clouds make immense profits. Right? So the price for computing in the last 10 years went down few times. The price, like for, for, for physical, uh, servers and stuff, the price of clouds did not go down so much. So question, where's this money goes, of course they're just contributing to profits, like Amazon makes almost all of their profits from a w s true. So, so we don't have to do like 300, 400% markup. If it's decentralized, uh, marketplace, somebody gonna do this 30, 40% markup and then you're going nowhere with 300% markup. And I think the key as well for this is, and we, I and I were talking about this as well, which for any providers, like long as you're making your original, um, your original, um, principle back and you're just what, four or five Xing, what you already made, I mean, that's like the beauty of it as well, where it's like no matter what, it will always be cheaper than the current cloud.'cause it's a competitive market, right? So if anyone wants to be a provider on P two P, then you know, if you charge, let's say Amazon charges like a hundred dollars for a server and you're trying to charge like$99 for it, then what's, what's the difference? So it always has to be that competitive na landscape by default for the ecosystem, which is why, I mean at Grid, I can't necessarily like say like, you know, like publicly, but it gives a really good competitive advantage against. Um, the main like top three providers. So hypothetically speaking, as the marketplace continues to get more competitive and Ilya, I don't, I I think I might have heard you right. Did you say that, um, physical hardware prices went down? Yes. A lot. A lot, a lot per like, compute per terra flops, they went down a lot. Oh, nice. Yeah. So if that trend continues and then your com, your competition trend continues, then, correct me if I'm wrong, but hypothetically speaking, does that mean that the prices could get even cheaper than where they're at right now? No, I don't think we're, uh, approaching physical limitations of, uh, technology. Oh yeah. You guys have, do you guys have quantum execution environments? Yeah, we have high. Come on on, man. I want that, I want that specific orientation of my electron. Can, can this, this would be a huge here if we did this, but because someone explained won't. Okay. We'll, okay. Okay. We'll, let's do it. Let's go. It. I'll, I'll, he said Elia's saying we're the, the, the reason we can't get cheaper brev is because we're, we're like basically coming down to the fact that you can't make smaller and faster, uh, processors without like, uh, like you, you know, it's like four or five atoms wide. Right? We're kind of like reaching the end of Moore's law for GPUs and, and, and, and CPUs. And TPUs, right? If we get any closer, the electrons that are passing information, We'll, um, create noise and distortion and you won't be able to pass information across the, uh, um, the processor bridge. So that's why, that's why I, I threw them a bone about the quantum stuff because the next stage of compute is quantum computing. And, and, and that like, so like what, what we're, what you're seeing in the, in the physics space and the sort of quantum compute space is like their, their, their name is Silicon Valley will turn into the rust belt because quantum computing will completely upend the, uh, that that particular space. Yeah. I, I read somewhere that a quantum computer can make an algorithm that's better than every single algorithm out there. That just completely makes every algorithm out there right now obsolete. Yeah. Which means our, our encryption. Yeah. Current crypto occurrences, crypto technologies would be obsolete. Yes. What? Oh, that's crazy. I thought your mind being blown from in Florida. So, dude, my mind got double blown. One, I didn't know that. Um, you know, I always just thought that computers would just infinitely scale. There's just some sort of, I don't know how, but just, it would just infinitely happen. But I didn't realize that there is a literal, uh, a maximum that it could scale to until Nathan can just explain that. Yeah. Well, I'll send you, uh, like if you want, if for people who listen to this, if they, if you listen to Mico Kaku, he's a physics professor at City of University of New York. And he is like a, he's, he was, he is been, he's been doing the rounds. He has a new, a New York Times bestseller up called the Quantum Supremacy, talking specifically about this. Um, it's a great read. And he is got a bunch of great YouTubes. Is that the dude who's always on Joe Rogan? He's the, yeah, he's like the, he's like, yeah, he, I think he is. He's, he's significantly easier to listen to than most physicists. And he like, I mean, he's, he's great. I mean, essentially what this, there are, uh, there are NIST libraries, which is the National Institute of Science Technologies. There are li, there are open source quantum resistant libraries. So there are cryptography libraries that, that, that can be implemented by major web three crypto companies, but they haven't generally been implemented yet. I, I, the P two P cloud guys can, can comment on this, but you, those are open source. They're called NIST crystal libraries. So, wait, so there, just make sure I got that. There's open sourced quantum computing servers. Sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no. Quantum compute. Uh, so basically right now all the cryptography we use, most of the cryptography is not quantum safe. When quantum computers would be ready, All our wallets would be drained like by one computer. But, uh, because compared to current computers, they have an infinite amount of compute, roughly speaking, but, uh, their quantum save algorithms, which probably CR crypto would transition into maybe in the next 10 years or so. So it would be safe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so avalanche could, could transition to it. It just has to establish inside of avalanche go that it's using a different cryptography library instead of, I guess they're, they're using probably some sort of homomorphic encryption. I don't know what it is, a S 2 56 or something. Germany. I got a Germany, I got a question for you. So based off of all this, does that mean when quantum, when quantum computing is in crypto, blah, blah, blah, it's a lot more normal. Does that mean. That interstellar travel will be possible. And will it be built on a subnet that will kind of be lit, I'm not gonna lie, because ironically enough, I'm a, I'm a high key, but low key space nut, so I'm totally down to go into it. But no, I can totally see in terms of how things will scale even with the, in the, um, quantum realm. Dang. Like the first thing that kind of comes to mind is like a lot of the sciences in terms of like, just like security. So let's say you're like, you know, a hospital that could just change the way everyone just like process, like data for like data sensitive, um, like institutions, colleges, universities. That would be an interesting, um, use case even like for the military. But in terms of, yeah, I mean I'm still kind of learning about this now and I'm like double thinking about quantum compute. I'm like, shit, how are we gonna fight against this? Just kidding. Yeah. Quantum could, you could actually reach out to some of these quantum compute providers. Um, There are a couple that you can access, like basically on the cloud. Um, yeah, but they're too tiny. Yeah, exactly. They're too, they're, they're too tiny. Yo, this whole notion of quantum computing is like super wild to me. Like I I, it's funny that we brought it up. That's'cause I was literally researching into it like two days ago because I was, I kind, every once in a while I research into it trying to understand it and I never actually understand it. But this time I have found out that normal computers, it's either a one or a zero quantum computer. It can be a one and a zero. That's correct, dude, I what the fuck that means though, bro means calculations in other dimensions. You could make all calculations simultaneously. You know, I always had a theory about this, and this is like a total side tend, but I'm just gonna make it brief. So of course you know about the paradox with, um, where their light is, or photon. You can go in as like an um, a dot or like split the two, like concurrently. And my, my theory is it almost like reaches the ti ulti or ultimate dimension in terms of, oh wait a minute. So let me, thinking about the dimensions or just like these, like little compartments that are like stood up by a wall. I think it's, I think of it like a spectrum where it blends into one another. Right? And so what I mean by that, it's the fact that we already know that a particle can be going into like a row or it could be going like, uh, split into two concurrently. I think that's like the blending that we are seeing for the fourth dimension. So we can like somehow tap into that. Even if via computers, then that will be dope. But back to the main conversation though, just wanted to get that out there. Oh, God, my mind is so completely blown. All right. We gotta, like, my mind is destroyed right now. Um, we gotta, we got, I'm gonna transition this back to P two P. Let's transition back. Yeah. Yeah. My, my final thing about the com, the quantum computers, the quantum computers are actually very common. They're in nature, most of nature functions. Photosynthesis is like basically a quantum computer dude. Like, are we like inventing nature? Like, dude, what are the implications of this computer that we are building right now? Bro, you guys are talking about communicating with different dimensions. Like, it's like, oh yeah. We're, we're trying actually to reinvent the computers that were existing in 1940s, like non-binary computers. Say, say it one more time. We are trying to reinvent computers that were existing as existed, that existed in 1940s. Non-binary computers. Computers that, uh, work with, um, not with zeros and ones, but with infinite, uh, precision, precision based on physics. Oh, if, if you don't mind, and, and if you know, why did we decide to go from, from that to the more finite zero and ones? It's precise. It's easier. Got you. And now with quantum computing, we just have the ability to do the less precise Yes. But much more, like, much more powerful, but less precise. Got you, got you. I actually, okay. No, I, okay. I'm not sure that this makes sense. Okay. Sorry. Yeah, that's No worries. We'll, we'll kick it back into the road here. Yeah, please, please, please. Yes, we went, we went way off on a tangent there. Uh, so I'm gonna ask a question off the cusp here. So say I'm a a person who has a server. Can you walk me through, how do I kind of hook up with you folks? Yeah, so basically you register on our smart contract, uh, pay a little anti-spam fee, uh, and you, you have like install relation package to just view IP server, install our, uh, installation package and you can host. The problem is you need the hardware that supports trusted execution environment because we wanna make sure that, uh, you're not gonna steal any customer's data, that you're not gonna sneeze their private keys or anything like that. So the hardware. Is a problem. So you probably go to eBay, go, uh, buy the right C p U that you need and all this, uh, stuff. And preferably you host your computer in the data center unless you want to be punished for reliability issues. If you have Spectrum with like 35 megabits up at your home and you're trying to host a backup server in there, that's a very bad idea. You get complaints from clients, you're gonna leave, your rating gonna go down. How does the hardware requirement for like p e compare to the hardware requirements? Let's say for spinning up the avalanche validator, would you say like, it's like, would you need better hardware or is it kind of the same? It's more specific. Basically you need any a m D server, c p o in simple words, but if you wanna preferably, uh, manufacture 2021 or later. So it's pretty strict hardware. It's pretty expensive, but expensive. We're talking about maybe$2,000, uh, for used C P U with, uh, 64 cores, 1 28 threads, something like that. Got you. Got, and did you, have you folks already deployed because everything live already? Yes, yes. We are live, we are live with one data center. Uh, it's our data center Right now. We're not, uh, allowing other people to become hosts, only, uh, clients, uh, because we wanna, we wanna catch all the bug right now. Yes, we, yes. Makes it easy. And then the, I would assume over time the plan is to allow more people to bring in more data centers. Of course, yes. That's, that's the regional plan. Our end, uh, vision is end-to-end. Um, End-to-end cloud on, uh, decentralized technologies. Basically, you wanna bring in, uh, software vendors. So basically you develop your Kubernetes deployment or MySQL deployment that's integrated with, uh, p cloud's ecosystem and can, uh, scale up and down, sell it, just, uh, just publish it and get the revenue for everybody who's using your software. So we want, when we are trying to become this three party marketplace with customers who need cloud software providers and hardware providers, love that man. Loved it. Can you talk a little bit about why you decided to target those specific three users? I mean, that's, everything's needed to, uh, to move the current, uh, oligopoly, uh, in the cloud, uh, hold by three and a half companies. Yeah. You know what, Ilia, as I was, um, researching stuff so that we can have this, uh, conversation. I wouldn't sound like an idiot. I like looked into the cloud services market and it's literally dominated. It's 65% of the market is dominated by, I believe it was Microsoft Azure and a w s Yeah. Microsoft, Google, and a w s. That's correct. That's correct. It's basically all a w s has a monopoly in there. That's not Monopoly, but that's a main player. A w s and Azure, I mean, they, they have some market, but compared to a W Ss, it's not much. And everybody else are just pennies. Like I B m I don't know. It's like maybe 2% of the market or something like that. Yes. It's heavily centralized because of hardware lo because of software lock in. Because once you go with a w s it's almost impossible to move out from this platform. Exactly. And just to, um, plus one what I just said, it's hard for Yeah. You get to lock in as well as I think what really keeps people in there as well as the, um, the deployments, which is why we were talking about this, um, I think a week ago, a preview, which is how can we just like, make it simple for anyone who's kind of come in, do one click deployments where they're setting up a avalanche elevator node, pocket node, I mean the whole shipping in like a couple clips. Just so people can kind of build their, um, info stacks on top without needing to work, um, without needing to be locked in. Yeah, man, I mean that, that's the, that's the ultimate goal, man, especially for the end user. That would be, huh? That would be just like huge man. If, if I. If I as a person can just go in, see, oh, like this cost this much, this meets my requirements. Click, boom, deployed, and Oh man, this. And the beauty is you can spin up and tear down any instance you want because it charge by the men. Yeah, charge by, we charge by the men on the, um, on the protocol. So you don't even need to use it for the whole 30 days. It was like, Hey, I just need you to do a quick compute. You can build like an app or a script on top that would just spin it up, tear it down whenever you needed for like pennies. And it's also secure. So 1, 1, 1 thing we'd like to, I'd like to see is we, we got, we got built into an a w s account. And, uh, I mean, unless, I mean, I see the meme on Elia's, on, on, on his Twitter about, um, you know, accidental$50,000 a w s charges. They're, they get pretty high. If, if I could, we've had to shell one of our projects, I, I would just drive it over to P two P if we could spin it up, if it was some sort of easy drag and drop from s three buckets. That's the hard part in here. In terms of s three buckets, uh, like right now, there is no, I, I talked about software marketplace. Right now, there is no available software that's like we can, that we can deploy for you or something like that, that can be deployed in one click for three buckets here. You have to research, probably you're gonna, uh, find out that Minio is the best option and deploy some open source solution. That's the current problem. So right now we're working on stability of the marketplace itself for bare VMs, for people who use just VMs. And our next step, uh, is actually, uh, software marketplace, as I said. Where you're gonna be like, okay, I need SS three compatible layer for why my VMs just provide me with the S three buckets. Scale it as needed. Here is money. Just, I don't care. Just, just do do your thing. I just need a three that's, that's coming soon. Yes. Right now. Not possible. Well, just as a shameless plug here, um, the reason that landslide sort of built it in the first place is that we're, we're pulling over the Cosmos VMs into avalanche. So those, uh, like let's say Dow Dow for example, their Dow tooling, they'll need to have another instance of their software and they could just run it on P two P cloud. If, if you, if we can get, I mean, just dmm me, we should, we should talk, uh, some time offline. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. You know, the first thing that came to mind, um, when we were talk, just talking about, uh, migrates from SV buckets. Remember back in the day with, um, when Verizon and all the, uh, phone providers were going at, at like, Hey, we'll break your contract if you migrate over. That was like the first thing that came to my mind, like, oh yeah, we can get'em all. Hey, we'll break your contract. How much do you have left on it? Well, that'd be way too expensive, so nevermind. Fuck that. Well, what I mean, honestly, like, you know, I'll, I'll squint my eyes and, and play devil's advocate here. If, if the incumbents are so owning the market, um, and it's owned by a couple people, why did you guys decide to go into the market at, like, what, what's, how can you survive in, in, in the middle of all that? Well, for me, oh, sorry. Religious reasons, somebody has to do it. Somebody has to like, at least do some steps to lay the ground maybe for some other project to overtake. It's, it has to be done. It just, I, I just feel it has to be done. So it's religious reasons. Yes. And also in just, just, um, plus one with really just said one that has to be done, but also it's Yeah. Why not? Because again, when we start to really start looking at the, um, like even just like simply the cost difference, right? It's like the next question is that it's like, why, why is everyone become like saying like, oh yeah, cool. My a w s bill is a quarter mill a month. It's like, why is that the new norm when it doesn't necessarily have to be? So again, it all comes down to like, the change in mindset is like what is, especially when we keep talking about decentralization, I'm like, all right, well, what is it really? And all of it is, it's like a change in mindset, meaning that. Hey, I no longer don't have to, um, pay X amount on this like a w s or Google Bill. I have the choice to now spend like cheaper our building this ecosystem. And I think that's all what we need to like, at least like start being the next step if we truly want to be self sovereign and decentralized amongst everyone else, like as a whole. I, I, I mean, you know, I, I'm glad you guys want to do it, but like, how, how are you guys, uh, the competition's steep? Like how did you guys do a raise? Like how are you guys bootstrapping? So right now it's very, it's a very like slow step.'cause we just launched a product like almost a, about a month ago. But yeah, in terms of like the competition, so one thing that we kind of realized is like, who would need this? Like, what's like some of the lowing or low hanging fruits? And most of it came down to. Tech, startups, educational institutes, um, individual developers. Like as a deaf myself, I can't even begin to tell you how many fake email accounts I have to use for just to get like some free credits on Amazon, which just shows you that there is like a niche, but it just, there's no viable opportunity to offer. Like, yeah, you can go to other, um, providers, but they don't really allow the, um, uh, yeah, they don't allow, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? They don't have the interoperability that I need. Like for instance, we always like compare Hener, right? Because Hener is like cheap, but they're not crypto friendly. So that's kind of going back to Ilias. It's like, won't they, won't they kick you off if they, if they find they're running a note? Oh yeah, they are. And that's the thing. So it's like if no one else is doing it back to i's point, then like someone like has to do it, which is where we're gonna keep up our kind of step up to the plate for that. Yeah, it's gonna be like a long ride. Like we, Ellie and I talk about this all the time, but it's one of those things where when we start to actually raise, that's when we're gonna just start to go in and just keep telling the initiative of, hey, like, here's why, you know, people would need us. Like, hey, like you have all these tech startups raising X, Y, and Z. What if we can even help them? Or what if we can help your, um, your, um, portfolio save, you know, X amount so they can actually focus more towards marketing and community growth and development and sponsoring hackathons to actually like, you know, bring that product forward. Yeah. Uh, I wanna answer this question a little differently. Uh, so our end goal, so our end goal with our end product with which we wanna compete, we don't wanna compete with virtual machines right now. It's a temporary step. We wanna compete with full blown cloud. So everybody who ever deployed something that people actually use to like, or like to a w s uh, Lambda, Lambda knows it's like past zero plus from three tier to couple thousand dollars per month. It's like very short, like very short. Uh, and uh, so we, there is opportunity to do cloud services for much cheaper. When we think cheaper in terms of cloud functions. It can be like thousand times, no, not time, but definitely a hundred times cheaper. Uh, so I would say, We have ability to bring a cost conscious solution for, uh, countries and for, uh, for like developing countries, for countries where like, just paying a w s bills is not that easy. So for example, my previous startup, we spent around, uh, 50 to$60,000 per month on hener, uh, managing our service by our own. We were renting bare metal on a w s comparable infrastructure would cost us around to five to six, uh, five to 600 k per month. And we were not making that much. So a w s was not an option for us at all. We were just. Comparatively poor startup. So not for everybody's current cloud prices are permittable, but people want full-blown like cloud solutions. That's what, that's, that's our end goal. So right now, yeah, just cheap PMs who caress maybe only people who care about decentralization cares, but the goal is to arrive to full blown cloud. So who, who's your, I know we're, we're coming up on the end of your re but my final question is who's your target client? Like who do you really want to pull over? Like what type of DAPs? Okay. Right now, just right now. Anybody enthusiastic about decentralization? That's the main thing. Yes. Saving money, but especially for American, for like America based startups, money for infra is nothing. So right now, just enthusiasts later, uh, cost conscious startups outside of crypto. Like, do, do you want DAPs? Like, do do you want protocols? Like Yeah, give, gimme some. Oh, I think, I see, I hear what you're saying. So I guess to make it more specific, um, to help like answer your question. So taking a step back, so our main three, um, user segments were node runners, R P C providers, um, for like different blockchains. Second one was, um, developers like in general where there's like a website developer or full stack, um, data or data data analysts who needs to, you know, compute process data and like educational or education institutes. And from there we've been kind of focusing more on the R P C provider'cause that's more prominent'cause it's actually hard. So like, even for like that developers, I mean, unless, usually they just do smart contract interactions anyway. So it's kind of hard to be like, commit our sell like a, that developer like, hey gonna need server unless they wanna run their own. Um, let's say like their own archival node or whatever the case may be. But do kind of go in line with the decentralization, um, aspect. That's why we were thinking like, oh, like r p C providers.'cause you have a lot of like, you know, different like protocols that have like delegated proof of stake or any type of proof of stake network that are running large clusters for their clients. Those could be the ones that we go out there, which is like, um, single cl or single click deployments or like, Hey, you wanna spin up another Ethereum node and not spin an arm and a leg? All right, cool. Just let's try to do like a one click deployment or a simple script to help get them up. I hope that kind of answers your question. Well, yeah, I'm, I'm also sort of wondering, like, I, I saw an, an analysis on the cost for running a DAP and it's quite high, so, you know, I'm wondering if, if that's another target for you. Oh yeah, that, that'd be interesting.'cause I'm just trying to figure out the, even like for myself, like researching more use cases.'cause again, like a lot of them either use like firebase or. You know, again, like smart contract, um, interactions. Yeah, if you can like send like that analysis, I'm not sure if you're looking at it now, I would love to take a look at that. Right on. I love the avac SQL system spaces, uniting the people, my friends. I love to see, you know, the synergies kinda happen between like, you know, you folks and landslide. I'm excited to see what, what, what you folks talk about as well. Um, I'm sure something Amazing's gonna come outta that. This dude Nathan's a genius and you guys are huge, huge gig of chat geniuses as well, man. Definitely love what you guys are building and, and, and love the way that you've decided to take on what you're building, right? Because it's kinda like Nathan was saying with the, with the cloud service market is completely, it's, it's basically a monopoly. It's, it's not, it's considered an oligopoly, but it's, it's essentially an a monopoly. Um, and he was asking you folks, you know, like, you know, how do you folks plan on like getting in there right? You know,'cause it's just so completely overrun by a W Ss mostly. Um, and I think you guys are doing an absolute amazing job where you, you decided, hey, let's see what this low hanging fruit is. And then you are focusing on kind of those R P C users. And then you'll use that to kind of build. On top of, or use that as an or as a M V P M V P product so that you can then build on top of, and then slowly but surely take market share away from, you know, the masses.'cause you know, as I hear you guys talk more, you know, I, I was thinking from like a smaller level, I'm talking to projects, they're saying$2,000, but then you hear from Ilia and they're talking$500,000 per month for whatever configuration for our respects that that's needed for that. Um, and I think there's a huge, huge need for something that you guys are building, especially since it's a marketplace, it's gonna be a lot of competition that's gonna help drive cost down. Uh, so really wanna say hats off to you folks, um, for building what you're building and, and please continue to keep building. Oh yeah. Thank you so much. Hell yeah. Ain't no, ain't no thing, man. I gotta, I gotta shout out people who are building in a bear market, because as a person who is a part of a team that's building in a bear market, Nathan is as well, we have a very, very intimate, intimate understanding of how hard it is to build during this market. It's literally like the entire world is against you. Whether that's financially, whether that's support wise, emotionally, mentally, like everyone's against you at this point because no one rocks with crypto at all. So if you, if you say the word crypto to people that are just completely like, where I'm, I'm in, I'm in Chicago, like it might be a little bit different where you folks are at, but you know, when people ask me like what I do, I say, we say I work in tech. Um, because if I say I work in crypto, they're gonna judge me and they're gonna just walk away from the conversation immediately and think I'm a fucking tinfoil hat. Wear true. You're not wrong. So where my tinfoil hats bed, okay. It's just me and the aliens. No, Nathan is a tenfold hat wearer, but he is also an, uh, a genius builder as well. You can be both. You can be both. And, uh, I'm, I, I think Germany is also a little bit of a tenfold hat wear as well. We talked a little bit about the mentions, aliens, interstellar travel just slightly. So I'm, I'm getting slight glimpses of the 10 foil hat. I'm all in on that. All in. Hey, I'm, I'm all in as well, my friend Love me some aliens. All right, folks, we're coming up at around the hour mark here. I know I, I did wanna talk a little bit with Nathan about, um, everything that, uh, everything he went through as he was building his mini pool. If you can kind of just talk about your experience really quick, Nathan, before we kind of wrap up here. Uh, yeah. So, so last week on the show we had Unos, um, which is a, uh, like a validator provider. Um, and so my experience, so one, one piece that I I think actually is, is being de fixed is, um, like the sort of general onboarding process is the, the go-go pool team is, is working to, to make it almost like a one click scenario. I didn't realize that you had to spin up a new node that had no avac on it before you can bring it in, um, into, into the Gogo pool, uh, um, ecosystem. So, um, like one thing that I didn't kind of realize, even though I I host the space with you is that it's really, um, it, like, if you look at the, the Gogo Pool website, it's, it's, it talks about borrowing vacs, but really what's happening is you're sort of matching other AVAC providers. So the way that go-go pool kind of decreases the threshold. The minimum threshold is for, required for validators from 2000 to 1000, is that it's matching you with these other people, right? So, and you, you put up a thousand avac and someone else puts up a thousand avac, and, and that sort of generates the, the node, um, the validator, uh, uh, requirements. And um, so you bring a new node ID that you can create through unos, um, which costs, you know, uh, I dunno, 40,$50. Um, and you bring a thousand aacs and then you buy a hundred aacs worth of go-go pool tokens. And so, um, the way that I'm looking at this in general is that it's, it's, uh, It's a way to put capital to, to, to work, to further decentralize the validator set. And, um, it won't ding, just ding bing. What? I said. Dinging. Dinging. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, so there is like, this isn't obviously financial ad advice. And what I will say is, um, when you decentralize validator sets, if you can do it at scale, it becomes valuable because more, it, it drives demand to increase a validator set. And one thing I talked about with Steven at Gogo Pool is that there's a narrative, uh, which, which fits into the P P two P cloud narrative here, which is, which is like the sort of just decentralization. Aspect, right? This, this meme of, of, um, empowerment basically revolves around the fact that in many other blockchain networks, your validator sets are fixed. They're right. Um, either they're fixed with capital, like high overhead capital, or they're fixed with like literally a, uh, like a fixed set. So for instance, in, in Cosmos, the validator set is fixed at 175 validators. But when you, like, that will shift over time because those networks will come to avalanche and they're gonna come to avalanche via I B C, um, which is kind of what, what what we're working on. Now, the reason this relates to Gogo pool is if you have the ability for like a, you're running a validator. If you're running an atom validator like a cosmos validator. Um, and you don't have access to run validators in other spaces. Gogo Pool can rent them to you, and if you want, and if you want to run your validator on a cheaper service, right? Either Unos can give it to you, Nirvana can give it to you, P two P Cloud can run it. There's these sort of things are kind of expanding in that zone. Um, so yeah, that's, that's sort of my, my rant on it. Does it, does that, did that land? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It landed. My friend and I, I wanna say, man, thank you so much throughout your entire process as you've been kind of, Creating your mini pool and kind of asking questions about it. Thank you for all the feedback that you've been giving the team, man. It's been, it's been really, really helpful. For sure. Yeah. I mean, you know, for everyone out there like, you know, our product is, you know, I love Google Pull, love our product. We're having validators fantastic. You know, obviously there's, you know, room for improvement. Like the, for me, the obvious case is getting to a point where we con trivialize. The cost of spinning up a validator where we can make it so that anyone can spin up a validator. Like you pay 20 bucks a month, you got you a value, you hit deposit, you got like 28 bucks or something, and then boom, you got yourself a validator. Like I can see for sure a future where that's where that's possible, but really appreciate your feedback so that we can kind of get to that future. And then, and one of the specific things that, you know, we're working on right now, of course is that one click button. But then as you were saying earlier, Nathan, where you, you didn't realize you had to spin up a whole brand new node and all that stuff. We're also working on, uh, something in the background to make it a little bit easier for people who already have nodes to just easily come on over to Gogo pool so they don't get, do a bunch of extra stuff in the background. Um, ain't nobody got time for that. That's cool. Got man ain't got for that. Got time for that. What I would say, what I would say about bring down the number to like 20 vacs, like the reason that E can do it is because of their market cap, right? Like if you have. If the market gap is too low and you spread out that economic, uh, security guarantee among too many people, it kind of, it creates basically a security risk. So there is some scenario in the future where, uh, you can bring it down, let's say you could bring it down to 500, right? And, and what that would mean, what that would look like as someone who's an outsider and not on the Gogo pool team. To me, what that would look like is you have, you have increased your risk from a thousand to 500, right? So it's a little bit risky there, but if you have a high SS l a uptime on those validators, or you have a reputation management for those, uh, locked assets, that's, that's the way you could minimize the risk. I also appreciate you been talking about the risks, man, because. I, we, we want to hear as, as much as possible from the folks that are using it about what they're thinking about when they're going into kind of like that purchasing process. Um, we want to, of course, mitigate as much risk as we possibly can. Um, now another thing that I also want to highlight is just the importance of like, all of us up here, kind of like working together and having synergies with each other, like landslide coming through and helping Cosmos validators who want to, who wanna validate on avalanche pool. Come on over. Or how, uh, Gogo Pool, P two P Cloud working together. Hey, we got a bunch of people that are gonna need your services. Bam. We, hey, cool. Use P two P cloud. This is how much it would cost. Uh, you know, I got people over here telling me they're paying$2,000 a month, you know, when you, when they can probably get the same service for 40 months a month with P two P Cloud, you know, got. Right, exactly. I know, I know the plug. So it's like, I'll rock with you. So heavy Germany. Um, but yeah, no, I, I just, I just, I just love this man. I love the, the, the spirit of collaboration that we all have together and, um, really, really appreciate all of you, man. Um, for all the love that you showed Gogo Pool so far, Nathan, especially Nathan, Nathan promotes gold for than I do. I feel bad. I really appreci tattoo like across my chest. No big deal, but, all right. That's, wait till I get this landslide tattoo on my forehead teardra pool that he has for every mini pool. I get a tear drop. That's fire. 1 1, 1 piece that, that P two P can really help on is like, if, if I, I posted a link about this in the chat, like on the, on the Twitter space itself, is that there's tensions between the top liquid staking providers, right between Lido and Rocket Pool. And that's, and that's because the centralization risk exists when you put all these liquid stake providers in a single cloud provider, right? So like, yeah, the centralization, you, you see what I was, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. The funny thing you said that too. Yeah.'cause I know we're kind of like 10 minutes over and I, I was talking to like other providers about that as well, especially in like different like ecosystems where it's like, hey, we'll run, you know, big Tim's, um, node like for you, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they're trying to compete. But the beauty is I'm like, yo, you can still compete. Actually, let's just take like R P C, let's go to a more traditional, um, uh, traditional approach as well as like an example. So let's just say I wanna be a web posting provider, like Blue Host, or, you know, you, you name it. Technically if you want wanted to on top of P two P cloud is you can totally undercut every other, um, web, web posting provider by saying like, Hey, how about this? I, uh, I'll deploy your website here. You can use cPanel or, um, plus wherever you want, but. I'll be, you know, 40% cheaper. So even if the competitors, depending on like where they're hosted on, wanted to go like low'cause they have their, um, bottom line like cat or they can't go, you know, they can't go behind'cause then they're eating out of their profits. But if you're on like another infra that's cheaper in the more distributed than them. So let's just say Ohio, uh, data center went out. When you're still up, that kind of makes a better case and you can always keep going lower and lower and lower. I'm still waiting for the name, for someone to like kind of take that idea and run with it.'cause I would love to see someone just make their own hosting provider, like, you know, website hosting provider on top of P two P and hopefully take, um, blue Host out of, um, business just to make websites more decentralized. Decentralized. Yeah.'cause currently we have a, um, a very, very, Hey, we wanna decentralization narrative, but every single project is on a centralized a w SS cloud. So main beneficiary, uh, from all the crypto technologies is Bezos, right? Is getting all money for all the nodes hosting there, right? I mean, the same look, the same can be said about for, for all these Bitcoin maxes, right? How many pools of, bit of, of Bitcoin miners secure the, the, the chain like under 20? That's Wow, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. I mean, and if you're the chi, if you're the Chinese Communist Party, you can just walk into a mining center, show them a gun, and then take control of the minor wowsers. Yeah. So we're, we're only further in the case for P T P cloud right now. Hell yeah. Right. Let's get it man. Hey, really, really appreciate. We're coming up at the, uh, hour 15 mark here. Um, I'm gonna go ahead and open everything up for closing remarks, um, from our panel of speakers. We're gonna start off with my friend Nathan here of Landslide. Got any closing remarks for the people? No sir. No, sir. Don't think that you guys got a hurry either, man. I'm not in a hurry. I'm just getting as he's getting his tabs as I'm like all slowly closing the laptop. Nah, nah. Um, Jeremy Ilia, thank y'all so much for coming out today as well, man. Y'all got any closing remarks for the people? Anything you wanna show about P two P Cloud or anything else? No, but just thank everyone for, um, listening to this. I see, uh, my buddy Kyle's on here up, bro. Uh, yeah. Thanks everyone for um, listening, feel free to check us out@p2pcloud.io. We're around also, you have like, you know, our GitHub and Telegram is all linked on there, so yeah. If you guys have any more questions, feel free to reach out to myself or Ilia and we got you, Pam. Yeah. Thank you guys. And yeah, thank you for being here and also if you have any advice to us, would be happy to hear. Yeah, my dms are open. Oh, and last thing, um, if anyone wants,'cause we're still doing like a soft like promotion as well, so if anyone wants to try out like a virtual machine, like again, like let Ilia and I know we'll hook you up with like a$50, um, like promotional code so you can just like test it out for 30 days if you want and tell us what you think. Make sure you guys take advantage of that. I know I got some developer folks out here that's listening to this right now. Make sure you guys are taking advantage of what my friend Jeremy Ilia talking about. If you guys got any questions, make sure you reach out to them. I do got one thing, Ilya, since you, since you, uh, said if you, if we, if you have anything that we'd like to say, any tips or anything. Um, Jeremy, you got put p t P Cloud in your profile dog. Sorry bro. That's my only tip, bro, because I was gonna say, Hey, yeah, go to Germany's, uh, profile and go ahead, click on P two P, but your's not in there, but I Ilya's. Got it. So, uh, if anybody out there, if you guys wanna follow PTP cloud, just pop, just click on Ilya's profile and developer at PTP cloud. Underscore io is the Twitter name. Make sure you guys go ahead and follow them, especially if you're a builder, especially if you're a validator. I see one of my favorite mini pool operators out there. Kind web three. What's up my friend? Uh, make sure you go ahead and you're checking them out as well. Uh, for me on the closing remarks, Gogo Pool is Gogo pooling everybody. We are doing a campaign with UNOS right now, 20% discount on your node, and that is going to last for another four hours, my friend. You got four hours to get 20% off your node right now. And I think that's, I think it's like 30 bucks a month, 32 bucks a month, something like that. Like, you know, we, you know, we talked to Ilia, they talking about 500,000. We talking about 32, so you know, Go ahead. Make sure you click on the global pool profile so you guys can take advantage of that. Um, yeah, man, that's really all I got bro. We gonna be back here. You already know next Wednesday, 3:00 PM e s t as we usually are. You guys already know the best place to be and that's with G G P Landslide and Savvy Defi, even though they are not here today, but they hopefully will be here next week, my friends. But again, I wanna say thank you to everybody for coming out today. I'm gonna say my usual saying, oh, right before I say that. Don't forget we're on Spotify. I'm gonna put this on Spotify and all the major streaming platforms, so make sure you guys check that out in case you just came in at the tail end of this. You don't wanna miss any of the alpha or any of the discussion. We talked about dimensions and aliens and interstellar travel and, and, and cloud services and all sorts of things. We went all around the world today, so make sure you check it out on Spotify if you came in late. Uh, continuing on though. Closing this space, closing everything down. I'm close everything down with my usual statement. You ain't gotta go home, but you gotta get a phone outta here y'all. Peace. Peace.