Here's Why AVAX Has Taken the Lead in Web3 Gaming

GoGoPool, Landslide + Savvy Defi talked to Gamin on AVAX about how Avalanche has taken the lead in the web3 gaming space.

Social Links:
GoGoPool Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoGoPool_
Savvy DeFi Twitter: https://twitter.com/SavvyDeFi
Landslide Twitter: https://twitter.com/CosmosAVAX

Transcript

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I would like to welcome everyone to The AVAX ecosystem space. I am one of your lovely hosts. My name is Brevi. I do gross shit for GoGoPool. And for those of you who don't know what GoGoPool is, we are a permissionless liquid staking protocol with a specific vision of expanding the subnet economy. I am joined here. By one of my lovely co hosts, we have Alex Lumley at the helm of Savvy Defy. I have invited them to come up, but it looks like they're having trouble with actually accepting that invite. Shout out Twitter for being still trash. Um, but if he were up here, I'm sure he would say hello. Hello. Oh, here he is. What up Alex? Nah, dude. No, you never have to say sorry in a Twitter space, man. We, we all blame Elon here. So yeah, let's get this thing going. I'm also joined by, of course, our special guest here. We have Park here. He is an Ava Labs Gaming BD. Say, what's up, my friend? What's up? What's up, everybody? Glad to be here. Always, always a good time on the show. You know, I always try to make a live man. I don't I don't like like some just boring question answer sequence Let's I always like to deep deep dive into the weeds and act a little weird here. We get a little weird down here I Need to start doing this thing on Friday. So it's kind of like a happy hour thing So we can we can have an excuse to have a little wine maybe a little beer Sure, you got to quit having me on the Wednesday special then I got to be on the Friday one. It sounds like Maybe I'll switch it up. Maybe we'll start doing Fridays Call it the avax ecosystem. Happy hour instead. Oh, Maybe that's a thing. Hold on. Hold on If you if you like that put a heart in the chat and then you know, maybe that'll be our vote We'll see if uh, we'll see if people like it or not, man All right, man No, if you want avax ecosystem happy hour every friday at 3 30 p. m Est put a heart in the chat go ahead and comment Go ahead and comment on the uh, on the link or comment or just fucking mention me or whatever the hell you want to do But yeah, we can get that going next. I do love me a little wine get a little loose But yeah, so let's go over the agenda for today my friends We're of course going to be talking about a bunch of gaming stuff So it's going to be a very very fun one that we got going on today First, we're going to dive a little bit into how gaming and DeFi have overlapped. Alex Lumley is going to lead this discussion and we're going to talk a little bit about how they've all overlapped. Then, of course, we'll talk about TSM and Blitz. We're going to get a high level overview and, of course, talk about what that partnership means for Avalanche and the rest of the ecosystem. And then we'll go into Gunzilla and off the grid. I don't know if you guys saw the video that just came out But it looks absolutely fucking insane. So we are for sure gonna be talking very very deep about that But I guess just to kick everything off I'm gonna go ahead and hand it off to alex here for him to kick it off. You got the floor my friend Gmgm, uh park. Thanks so much for joining us before I say anything first. I want to say I, I giggled earlier today when I was looking at Twitter timeline, Colorado football, and he said, is prime going to pump after this Deon Sanders win? Uh, I just want to, you know, shout out to great Twitter content. I appreciate that. Yeah, it's a, it's few. I don't, don't post a lot, but I try to post bangers when I do. Only, only bangers in this, in this AMA is it's kind of what we like. So, so honestly, what I, what I want to chat with you about is just jam out a little bit of DeFi and gaming overlap. I'll kind of set the stage by saying that, you know, at Savvy we're, we're, we're a credit platform, right? So, so you can come into Savvy, um, deposit into a strategy, right? Um, and then, and then, and then take out a synthetic and you can imagine, uh, it almost acts like a credit card in a certain way, right? So there's a lot of potential for something like this to overlap with gaming. Uh, we have the concept of guilt free gaming, where you, someone could come in to, uh, Savvy, deposit into Savvy, take out, you know, SVBTC, SVE, SV AVAX, and then go and use that for a game, uh, like, like an actual game opportunity. So that's the context with how I'm thinking about it. But I'd like to just ask you first, like, how do gaming and DeFi overlap? Um, GameFi is important to be on crypto because, um, because the blockchain, because the possibilities with like buying and purchasing things, but it doesn't seem like there's enough overlap right now. So where, where are we starting from here? And how, where do things go in the future? Yeah, it's an, it's an interesting topic. I think it's one that we will eventually see a very strong correlation with. Um, frankly, I don't know if there's enough, like, there's a lot of speculation in the gaming market, Web3 in general. Um, and I think... Where Defi and Gafi will really overlap is when we have these, you know, really robust game economies on chain to the point where, you know, they are, you know, the CS goes of the world, the, or the Warcrafts of the world where there's actually somewhat of a, a trust in the economy of the games where you could essentially take out loans against the assets that you have within these games. I think that's when it gets really interesting. Um, to kind of have that overlap, overlap of GameFi and DeFi. And I think right now, a lot of these teams are very much ahead of the curve of where the industry is at. I think, you know, I always say people in Web3 are either, you know, looking forward to the next one year of blockchain technology, or they see 20 to 30 years into the future of blockchain technology. Um, there's not many people in between, and that's kind of the polarization that we have in this industry. So I think... Where we're at now is really building the groundworks for these, and these, I guess, railways for this DeFi and GameFi overlap, which frankly, I don't think we'll see a huge adoption until, you know, several years down the road, but it's a very interesting concept. So, and I've started talking to like some more GameFi companies, and the sense I get is that, um, there's, there's some figuring, like, how do I get to product market fit? How do I actually finish my project? Even something like, um, a bunch of these big games aren't even quite out yet. And the ones that are out, when I've tried to play them, it's like, Still quite not where they should be. It seems like in Game 5 we're still talking about the future rather than what things are now. Am I wrong in this sense? Um, I don't think you're wrong at all. I think that there's definitely a lot of different viewpoints in the gaming industry, and a lot of people that think they know what they're doing, and a lot of people that have no clue what they're doing all at the same time. With, uh, you know, the way I see gaming, I think a lot of people raised a lot of money during the bull cycle, um, of 2021 and, and kind of into 2022 by having these pre sale token launches, so on and so forth that, you know, VCs were able to get quick liquidity from, and it really affects these in game economies because when there's no demand, no player base and, you know, frankly, no game live for the token to see any accrual, um, it really kind of kills your game on day one. And so. We're a lot of these teams that we're talking with now and advising, it's really around, you know, not if a token, but really when token makes sense. And, you know, I think it comes down to needing to have built a economy around your game that is You know, more than just five people, you know, dabbling on a web browser. I think you really have to have an in depth economy before even thinking about putting it on chain. Um, I think that's, it's an evolution that we've seen on the gaming side and hopefully that the industry adopts very soon or else, you know, we're just going to keep seeing these, you know, Pump and dumps ponzis and, and it's just not ever gonna, you know, reach industry adoption. And when you're talking about like the endgame economy, the mechanics of, if I have a user who has, you're talking about the, yeah. Any, any value that you can add to a game economy. Right. So if you're playing World of Warcraft, you are participating in the economy. Going out on quests, creating, like, battling these bosses, getting loot, bringing it back to the marketplace. The fact that you're actually playing the game and participating in the game loop is essentially you adding value to the economy in a sense. And so that's, that's really what I mean. It's, it's time spent in game and then also the value of that time spent in game is, is essentially adding value to the economy. And, um, I don't think it's something that people put enough emphasis on when they're creating these tokenomics and game designs. I also just want to say, you know, games are the, one of the few things that are already pretty primed for a DeFi overlaps. Cause if you kind of think of it, like for instance, with Madden. They have like Madden tokens already, right? That, you know, you can't really spend anywhere. They really have no actual value outside of Madden, um, or outside of the games economy. But when you really think about it, and I think especially me specifically, like I think about how many hours that I've spent, um, just within the game economy in Madden, you know, imagine if Madden had a actual token. For its game economy to where, you know, I can actually play the game and receive compensation in that token. I think that's something that I think is going to be a huge part of like this kind of overlap is We've spent we've all spent so much time playing these different games and receive really no compensation for it whatsoever There's really kind of no incentivization structure for it Um, but nowadays with you know with with gamefy coming You know, we can actually see some sort of incentivization structures are actually being built, you know, with examples like shrapnel where you'll be able to stake the strap token. If you're a, um, if you're like a map builder and people who like your map and who play your map, they can actually stake their strap tokens to that specific map creator and actually generate some sort of revenue. I think that's where we're going to see, like, a lot of overlapping is pretty much overlapping these game economies, um, with actual tokens themselves. And kind of, I guess go, are some of these game, game companies struggling? Are they struggling with just getting it done? Are they struggling with some of these tokenomics? Are they struggling with kind of moving on to a subnet? Um, or is it just the, the, the general struggles that come with building a game? Well, firstly, um, I will say I'm not doing my job right if I don't defend the, uh, ease of subnet deployments on avalanche, especially after this latest product push data cloud. I know I'm not. I'm not sure if people got to watch the. Um, video that, uh, our head of product, Nick Mussolini posted, but it really shows how you can deploy these subnets in a matter of minutes. So I think the technical hurdles are being overcome very quickly. Uh, lots of infrastructure partners as well, such as, you know, the Stardust of the world, Sequence. Uh, third web, a lot of these providers that make it very easy for game developers to essentially get a, you know, web two game developer experience. Uh, but I think that we've gotten to that point, um, to the point where there's so many of these infrastructure providers that, you know, I think we're all, we all have seen them all now. And it's time for just to, I guess it's just time to let the game development life cycle play out and that really is what it is boiled down to. I think I started here at Able Labs on the gaming team last April, so of 2022. And, you know, shrapnel, we'd already, you know, signed our deal or not even signed our deal, but just kind of shrapnel had committed to building an avalanche subnet. And, you know, we're, we're just now really getting a good taste of what the game feels like. Um, and so yeah, being on the gaming side along, and I, so I feel for our institutional team as well, is working with the banks of the world. It's just a very long life cycle. But, um, I, I think where they do struggle is the educational side. So there is a long sales cycle, even before these games are committed to, you know, building out their game and deploying it on the blockchain. For us, uh, we are working with several different publishers and educating them on, you know, why you might want to leverage web three technology, for your specific game. And so we launched our Avalanche Arcade initiative in. I think early June, I actually announced that 3XP, and that is a, you know, educational consortium or, you know, just cohort of publishers and teams that are building by example in the Web3 space, really sharing notes. Educating them, and uh, Coop and I see Zach, Trading Aloha is in here as well, have worked very hard on creating a, our first issuance, which is around tokenomics and game design actually, so it'll be really interesting to see how these publishers perceive that educational content, but um, yeah, just really, education I think is the, the hardest part of, you know, these Web 3, or these Web 2 publishers adopting, um, I'm going to add in that, you know, making the game is, is definitely like for, for a lot of the biggest activations we have in this year and early next year, it's, it's literally just trying to, you know, finish the game, put final touches on it, alpha test it, beta test it and get it out the door. And it's. Like off the grid, what is it? I, it's either four or five years in the making. Yeah. It's not, it's not quick at all. And they, they're one of the cool cases where it was like, they, they've had this game in the works for a long time and then saw the promise of web three and, you know, added it in, I think like two years in, uh, but like so many of the games are coming at it a different way where the, and they always envisioned a web three game and. So if, if they're in that boat, that's like, it's only like two years old, you know, so like the, the earliest games are just a couple of years old and still like trying to finish up and make something really polished. Yeah, I think the development life cycle of games is, uh, is really, really understated. You know, when you think of games like Baldur's Gate 3 or like StarCraft 2, this, I mean, they took like over a decade or something like that to produce these games. So, if Gamefy basically started like two years ago, man, then... You know, we're in it for the, we're in it for the long haul, but I mean, like, we're, we're seeing a lot of great developments, so that's always great. Like, and another thing I wanted to put out there when we're talking about gaming and defy overlap is I think a lot of new gaming studios are going to start popping up. And I think the way that they'll do their fundraising will be a lot different. Like we're seeing, uh, NFT projects use their NFT releases as a fundraise to build a game. We saw that with Rumble Kong League. I was actually an early investor in Rumble Kong League. And so I've been able to see the development over time. At first, Rumble Kong League was going to be a game where you couldn't actually even control your player. It was going to be kind of almost just like a kind of just computer script. You just kind of watch what goes on. And then now we've seen. Um, you know, like the latest videos that I've seen where, you know, you're moving a monkey around, they can actually shoot, they can go on fire, kind of similar to like NBA Jam. Um, but again, that's only two years in the making or something like that. So, you know, you know, I think we still have a few more years off before we start seeing gaming really, really, really start to kick off. And you mentioned like Web3 Studios. But one thing we haven't talked about is, is Web3 Publishers. Like a studio is really only one half of the equation in most of gaming. Like they make the game directly, but in a lot of gaming, they work with a publisher, it was basically like their marketing arm, the one that takes the game and, you know, sells it and. Uh, we don't have any real like proven web three publisher at this point. We talked to a lot of the web two publishers who might be interested in taking some of these games to market. But we think, I think that it's very likely we have people who are specifically a web three game publisher who will really understand the benefits of this technology better than just a web two publisher who's good at publishing normal games. And we have Merit Circle who's coming to Avalanche, building their subnet, the Beam subnet. And I see them as sort of this Web3 publisher potentially, but, uh, because the games haven't come out yet, they haven't had a real shot at publishing any yet. And I think it's just a really interesting side of the market to watch. And FYI, publishers take like... 15 to 30 percent of revenue from a game generally, and that's their cut. So that's, that's super interesting. And if you take that to its like logical extension, do you, are we also then missing like the, the audience of games? Because like at the same way that the publishers haven't had the opportunity to go and publish a bunch of web three games, I don't get the sense that there has been, uh, the, the buildup of the audience, even people like. You know, Brevi or other people who are totally in games and trying them out or even myself. I've been trying out more games It doesn't seem like there are enough there's enough of that audience quite yet because there aren't there aren't enough games for people to say You know, forget, forget my X Box. I'm just gonna start playing web three games. That's yes. Yes. Uh, sorry. Yes. There's part of that, like, it depends on how you think about web three. Is it just a technology that enables certain features or is it like a whole genre of games? And I think a lot of us these days. I think it's just a nice, nice features and not necessarily a genre. But even, even if that's how you think, Publishers have their own audience. Like Devolver, I think is a great example. There's sort of an indie games publisher, Devolver Digital. And when Devolver releases a new game, they have a huge group of people who love all of their games and are going to try those games. And so working with a certain publisher or having an established publisher is a way to immediately get access to fans. And we don't have that yet, uh, so it's definitely something to come. Yeah, I was going to add on, I think you asked what, like, one of the problems with these Web 3 developers have been, and it's something that Coop's been really, really kind of digging into and kind of exploratory conversations, but it's user acquisition, right? These games are getting ready to go live, they're not backed by publishers, they're just indie game developers looking to deploy their game, you know, Steam Store isn't very... Um, how would I say web three friendly? And that's a huge distribution channel for a lot of indie developers. And so these web three developers are, are really trying to figure out what's a good strategy to get eyes, ears, and, you know, frankly, sweaty gamer palms onto our game. Like, uh, it's just, it's just the crux of the problem. So I think Coop might have a lot to say about that, but, um, a lot of teams are creating creator, you know, I guess. cohorts and really trying to figure out what the best strategy looks like. Um, and I don't think there's been a perfected model yet, but that is another pain point. So I just wanted to bring that up as well. Yeah. Everyone asks like, where do we go to market? How do we, how do we get to those fans? And it's like a lot of them have spent a lot of time and effort on Twitter and it turns out. And there just aren't that many players on Twitter, they might be token speculators, but players aren't necessarily there. And so they're looking at like more normal marketing methods. Um, and then it's always the question of like, how, how do we introduce the NFT part? And definitely still like early on that front, but that's why I personally am really excited about teams like shrapnel and teams like. Off the grid or Godzilla, where they have a lot of experience taking a game all the way through to, you know, success, not just developing the game. Um, and they, they're sort of self publishing and they've, they have enough money to do that. People often underestimate how much money needs to go into marketing a game. And those are two teams where we think they, they really have all of that and have. The right expertise. Like I was catching some of off the grids marketing and they're doing all the right things. Like they're taking cuts of Dr. Disrespect talking about the game and they're boosting it on Tik TOK. And, you know, they're doing all of the best practice marketing efforts and it's really important. But let's actually talk a little bit about off the grid, you know, because that's something that I'm really excited about. Um, specifically, can you guys kind of give like a high level overview? And then also, you know, we talked a little bit about like the difference between how, you know, Web 3 games have been marketed versus. Let's say like web two games have been marketed. Can you kind of go into um that as well parker? Can you introduce off the grid? Yeah, I can I can I can give my my my darndest Koops probably pretty well verse at this one at this point, but uh, yeah off the grid is a game that is Developed by Godzilla games is, uh, led by the chief's, what is it? Creative officer, which is Neil Blomkamp. I know we've spoken about this several times on this space, particularly actually, but, um, what we're excited about is he also led the creative direction for district nine. And I think what's the other one? Delicium, Elysium, is that correct? Coop correct me if I'm wrong there. Um, but several different, you know, really well known titles in the movie industry. And essentially the game is a 150 multiplayer battle royale, while at the same time being a very story driven gameplay. 60 hours worth of in game story mode, campaign mode, content, and I think that's something that... The Web3 space is not really seen, um, as campaign and story driven games. Um, and I think this is gonna be a game changer to the Battle Royale game genre as well. I know from early days when the Gunzilla team launched their trailer, I think, you know, several, several months back, there was a lot of pushback from just gamers in general not being, you know, super excited about Battle Royales, which I, I can't frankly blame them. I think, you know, PUBG evolved into Fortnite, Fortnite evolved into Apex, and now Call of Duty is doing it every, every year. But, uh, with this story mode being kind of weaved into the multiplayer aspect, I think we're all really excited for that. Um, so yeah, hopeful that that is, you know, really a driver into getting more users onto the game and playing. The, yeah, go ahead. They, I think you asked about like their web three marketing aspects and they're, they're really not mentioning it. It's definitely a game first and it's a free to play game. And then the experience that they've set up. It goes hand in hand with that. Like you're not going to, uh, go, go to play the game and have to like set up MetaMask and sign in with your wallet. It's going to feel like a web two game, but all of it is powered on the backend by web three, um, smart contracts. And so they're going to allow you to trade. The main thing is trading your items. So you're going to trade skins and even limbs. Like if you, you, you can gain a cyber limb that has some special powers and it's tradable. And so I think like, without that experience, you can't really market your game like that. Like if you try to go and, and market the game as a web two game, and then you show up and users have to go through the typical like crappy web three experience, you're just going to lose everybody. So it's like the combination of both that go together, in my opinion. And, uh, yeah, they've got Dr. Disrespect, Imperial Hound, Klix, huge Battle Royale streamers. People actually are responding really positively to a game, and everyone should remember that gamers are really cynical of games. And so any sort of positive response is great. Yeah, they're, uh, from what I've seen, like, they're very, very anti Web3. Um, like, you know, kind of like normal traditional gamers. And so it was, it was a breath of fresh air to see off the grid come out and they're not talking about web three basically at all. Um, they came out with that video with Dr. Disrespect and it would in it. Felt like a just a regular traditional game even though that it has web three I'm kind of working in the background and and for one thing Another thing that I just love about it is that they actually focus specifically on the gameplay and making a unique game almost like you said there hasn't really been like a Battle Royale game that is kind of mixed in with the storyline. And for people out there to kind of, who haven't seen the video, um, to kind of give you a synopsis of it, you're playing kind of like a story mode, but also you're playing with 150 players in the battle Royale. So in the. In the video, uh, Dr. Disrespect was given a task of escorting of escorting, escorting, escorting, escorting someone to a specific drop zone. And while, while he was doing that, there was another group of players. who decided that they were going to ambush Dr. Disrespect. So they set up some traps and wound up stealing that person and then and had them go to their own extraction point. Now, I don't know any specifics like whether or not like their mission was to go and grab them from Dr. Disrespect or whether they just decided to do that on their own, but I think it's really, really cool that there's this element of this. Of this story going on, it's almost like 150 player co-op. You can almost kind of call it, um, in a way if you just kind of want to look at it. But I, I love the way that they're marketing it because they are doing it in a traditional way. Like a lot of games, they contact the streamers, they have the streamer stream that game, and then they basically develop and they get feedback from that. And, and all the feedback that I'm seeing, I literally went through the YouTube comments, extremely positive. There wasn't one person. Who said, oh, this is a web three game. It's gonna suck, you know, because how can you how can you when you when you're looking at this video of this like amazingly beautiful game and with this excellent, you know, play and then the story itself was dope. Like there was really good. Um, like really cool characters and dialogue and it was actually funny and Yeah, like, I'm really excited for Off the Grid, very, very much so, specifically. Um, now, going on to, like, uh, kind of Gunzilla, can you talk a little bit about, like, what Gunzilla is, and are they developing any other games, or what games they have already developed? Yeah, I can speak to that. I know that, right now, they are You know, 100 percent dedicated to building out off the grid, um, as, you know, I think we're all hopefully, you know, anticipating and are grateful that that's all that focus is right now. Um, the actual cool thing about what Gunzilla did, and I think Coop touched on it, was that they recognized the power of Web3, and more importantly, for, you know, the sake of, You know, my, my job and at the labs, they've recognized the power of Avalanche subnets. And so, you know, besides just being able to deploy off the grid on the subnet, they have built it with the future in mind, and that's either having third parties deploy on this subnet or, you know, future third, you know, party games or sorry, in house games that they're building towards. Um, but with that being said, I, I do believe that there's going to be a large focus on. Seeing if they can make off the grid a what, you know, the industry calls a forever game and You know similar to minecraft or fortnight roblox right these games and world of warcraft, right? These are all games that are considered forever games because people have played them forever I guess fortnight might be newer to the scene, but it is one of the newer kind of Approaches for forever games. And you can see that in the way that they're developing or leveraging third party developer toolkits for users to create user generated content. And so I think there's a lot of different routes that the off that the Gunzilla team can. approach building out their roadmap on, but you know, I think what should be known is that they are building on a subnet with the future of their company in mind, um, whether it be through, you know, making off the grid even greater in the future or deploying other titles on the subnet. So in a way you can, you can almost, well, so there are definitely the gaming studio, but. Then, you know, they would eventually be like a game publisher, um, is what I'm kind of thinking as well. I'm just, just kind of thinking, uh, just kind of thinking like, uh, basing it off of just, just expressing an opinion. Is I think that subnets may start to become home for a lot of game publishers. Especially when you start to talk about, um, especially when you start to talk about, you know, forever games. You know, Web three. I think it's very poised to start creating a bunch of forever games because they can create a unique game economy to where at the end of the day, you know, a game studio needs to make revenue and they can create a unique game economy where they can constantly get revenue in from one specific game. And then they can just constantly receive feedback from that game, continue to make improvements. Um, so I think that we're at the frontier of something that's gonna be really, really great. I also kind of wanted to punt it over to Alex. I know you wanted to talk a little bit more about like Web3 Gamers specifically if you want to take the lead, my friend. No, yeah, I just had a question. We're talking about like the users for Web3 Gaming, right? So, um, like Rivi is obviously one of them. Where, where are the users for Web3 Gaming now? Right, so talk, considering the marketing and doing all that. Like, where are the users for Web3 Gaming now and what will they switch away from? Like, are they currently playing some maybe not as cool Web3 games? Are they currently, uh, playing around on Steam? W w where are they currently, and then what are they going to switch away from? Yeah. So you're asking, oh, sorry. I had a little feedback. You were speaking on web three gamers and what they're currently playing. Is that, is that what the question was? Yeah. So, um, like if the concept is that you people only have so much time and attention and funds, um, they're currently playing something they're, they're gonna have to switch away from that to come to this new, like to Gunzilla or to anything else. Um, where, where are they currently and how are they going to switch away from that or like what are they going to switch away from? Yeah, the, uh, the great thing about Gunzilla and what they're doing with off the grid is that they're distributing it through console, so PC, Xbox, and PlayStation. And so these gamers are, you know, doing what gamers do. They're playing those forever games, as I mentioned, Fortnite. Uh, they're playing Call of Duty, uh, you know, all, all the current trad, traditional games I guess is what I would say is what they're playing. And the way that they'll be playing Godzilla is just through a seamless onboarding experience, which, um, I think we'll, we're all hopeful to see how that looks, especially being on console. I haven't played on console in a while. I saw that Zach just got up here and he's, he's a boomer, so I'm almost confident he's got a console. But, um, yeah, I think, uh, I think we'll be, I'm interested to see how that user experience looks. Um, especially on like the web three component side, right? Like trading, purchasing the assets in the game store. Um, it's something that, you know, I haven't gotten an inside sneak peek to, even though I am pretty close to the, the Godzilla team. But, um, yeah, I think that's going to be really important to the level of adoption that they get is whether how, you know, whether the seamless, that's seamless or not, excuse me. And so that's amazing for, for other teams and somebody who doesn't get set up. Yeah, this is, it's a great question and a good parlay into Zach jumping up onto the stage. I need to jump, but, uh, he's also been working with coop very closely and like the user acquisition process and with Tik Tok ads and different outlets. So I want to let him speak to that, but it's been a pleasure being up here, guys. If you don't know about Google pool, go check them out. Savvy defy as well. Um, cheers everybody. Aloha. You got the floor, my friend. Yeah. Appreciate it. No, on, on the user acquisition side, I think it's gonna be seamless. That, that's one thing Gonzalo has really tried to do is when they launch and go live, you're not gonna have to worry about, you know, setting up a meta mask and having, it's all gonna be done in the background. That's totally, you know, seamless to the player who can just jump in, download the games, it's free to play and just start playing. Um, for me, I'm not so much on the console side. I have to, I have to shoot Parker down there. I, I'm mostly a PC player. Um, but, uh, I think they're going to do a good job in the launch and they're being very meticulous and how they're releasing, um, their marketing strategy and making sure that when it's ready, it comes out and it comes off without a hitch. So I think they're going to be very careful on how they do it. Uh, and when they do the user acquisition and onboarding is going to be. Seamless and easy for everybody, and hopefully won't draw any flack or FUD. So, um, so I have another question that I've asked a few people on. Like, I was sitting down with my little cousins the other day, and I was like, Oh, well, might as well, you know, do some, like, user testing for Web 3, because this is a normal thing that you do when you're trying to babysit 7, 8, and like a 13 year old. And I was like, okay, so we, so we looked for some like web three games to play. And we played, try playing like treasured hour or something. And it was truthfully a little bit difficult. Um, what game would you recommend for like young kids who don't have a meta mask, barely have an email, like what, what, what game would you recommend for them to start playing around with? I mean, that's a tough one. Cause I think that there's not a ton out there that are like a fully playable, enjoyable experience that won't have their glitches or issues. Um, but kids are resilient and super smart when it comes to technology. My, you know, eight year old is already into it as well. I actually had this discussion with her yesterday cause I did a play test with, uh, Castle of Blackwater, which is a Merit Circle. It's going to launch on Merit Circle subnet beam. Uh, and it's currently, you know, you could play test it, um, through, uh, Elixir, you can download it and launch it and play. And it's kind of like a, an among us game. And it was very easy to understand. She kind of sat with me as we, as we did the play through and she was really interested in it and it was, you know, it was, it was great as something real easy that she can pick up where she didn't, she wouldn't need her own wallet. She wouldn't need any tokens to play. It was just something that she could download and play as easy as, as easy as anyone could these days. So I think there's games out there that are close to release. That'll, that'll scratch that itch. Uh, I just don't think we're, we're there yet on many games that are just fully easily playable and understandable to kids that are like. I would say eight or nine and under. Yeah, it's, it's, these development cycles are super long, so I can, I'm completely understanding that as well, just because, you know, when you have games like Starcraft that take 10 years, we can't expect these web three games to take, you know, just a year and then put out a game and it, and honestly, if they only take a year to build their game, do we want to play it in the first place is probably the, the better question of it. Um, so it's, it's really exciting to kind of see the landscape of what will be released. Um, seeing as we're at this new frontier and I also, Aloha, I want to talk to you a little bit about like, you know, the TSM collab with, um, with Avalanche. Can you kind of give like a high level overview of, um, like what's, what that's going to be? Yeah, so they're building, you know, their own subnet and they've got a lot of things in the pipeline. And I think, you know, within the next week or so, you'll see a lot of announcements coming down the road. We actually just had a call with them before this and kind of jumped off into this as well. And the stuff that they were showing that, you know, I wish I could, you know, talk more in depth about, but it's on the cusp of being released, is really going to change the game when it comes to TSM and everything that they've been building over the last year plus, and how they're going to partner with Avalanche. So I think within the next seven days, you're going to see some, some great news coming out of them and stuff that's really going to revolutionize, you know, how certain platforms are run and what you can do. Can you talk a little bit about, uh, like why TSM, let's say chose Avalanche, let's say over like a Cosmos or like Ethereum, something like that. Yeah, I think they, I mean, really, we've been talking with them for a while before they, you know, decided on Avalanche. And it was really just, you know, the, the ability to scale, customize, keep your own subnet and basically do whatever you need to easily without having to deal with a huge development cycle and having deep technical knowledge that you would have to like outsource. It's just really simple to. You know, set up your own subnet as you saw, you know, we did the release over, uh, last week in Korea blockchain week where they did the demo and how fast you can spin up your own subnet in five minutes, which is a couple of clicks. And then from there you can customize it however you want it. Um, and I think they recognized that early on and decided that that's where they were going to house their, you know, the whole eSports organization and what they were building and. From there, we're just going to keep going forward. And I know that they have like this, the Blitz product where like, they're going to be doing like tournaments and stuff. Can you talk a little bit about that? And then what games can we kind of expect to see in the tournaments? Yeah. So that's, that's one of the things I think in the next week or so, you're going to see a lot of information coming out. That was the basis of our call earlier was focused on the whole Blitz app and how they're integrating into the future games. And I think. You know, without saying too much, uh, I think you'll see some things coming out for CS go, uh, which based on this, the counter strike Twitter said, what are you doing next Wednesday? So I think maybe we see some, you know, CS go to come out next week. And then from there, I think you'll see a lot of, uh, blitz related material coming out that. For everyone out there, as you can see, I'm trying to squeeze as much alpha as I can out of Aloha. As much as I can say without saying too much, I'll try to get it. I would say pay attention to next Wednesday and you'll get a lot of information. Oh, well, I'm really excited for next Wednesday then, man, because can you kind of like, Just for anyone out there who's not privy to who TSM is, can you kind of just give them an overview of like who they are? Hey, sorry. Can you say that question again? I just got a phone call that cut off my audio completely. I love it. No, no, no worries No, I was Just for folks out there who um aren't privy to what TSM is or what they're doing Can you just give them a quick overview of who they are? Yeah, TSM a huge esports team based in north america You know, they were created a long time ago Uh, I think they were founded, uh, 2009, uh, way back, uh, no, 2021. I'm sorry. Um, get my ears all confused, but they've been doing a lot and, and the huge in the e sports world. I mean, since, you know, the riot season one championships trying to go over their history in a, in a long drawn out way, but you know, they've just been a huge player in the space. I think everyone who's in e sports has seen TSM. In the past. And they know everyone who's been, you know, playing in those tournaments for a long time. Uh, and it's just great to see them kind of recognize the potential on the blockchain technology and what avalanche has to offer. And then teaming up with, with us and helping us kind of get blitz to market and what we can do in the future. And it's just going to be huge. I'm, I'm pumped about it. Yeah. When I had saw the announcement that, you know, we had got TSM, I was just like over the moon because. I watch, I watch eSports. I was a huge StarCraft nerd back in the day, so I used to watch all of the StarCraft tournaments. Shout out Jadon. He's obviously the best Zerg ever. Um, so like it was really cool to see like, you know, Avalanche kind of locked down like a, a strictly traditional gaming team. And like, I, I have to keep pointing that out, um, to the audience that. Um, the, the way that avalanche has gone about this, uh, this move to gaming has just been absolutely amazing and it's been dope to kind of see, you know, like a lot of like before avalanche, you know, started talking about shrapnel off the grid and all these other different games that we'll, we'll see come to light very soon. Web three gaming was what, uh, what the fuck was that chick called? Actually infinity and all of its clones. And it's not actually even a, really a game. It's just like, come through, grab NFT, make some money. I bet. What's up? Yeah, exactly. It's a defy skin or like, um, DFK, you know, which are also more of a defy skin, but you can also see them pivoting. Over to actually being like a more, more game, being more game focused as well with their new kind of battles that they're kind of doing, um, and I think that's going to be like the future, right? Where eventually Web 3 is going to be super far in the background, like you're really not going to even know that it's even on Web 3 and then you're just going to be playing a fun game because at the end of the day, like nobody cares about like, you know, like the infrastructure behind, like, I don't care how much power the Xbox has. Can I play a good game on it or not? Yeah, I mean, that's that's, that's the goal is. Everything is completely, the user has no idea what's going on in the background. They want to play a good game. They want to own their assets. They could care less how it works. And they have the ability to trade their assets if they want to. And if not, they don't have to. And there's a free to play versions of some game. There's, it's the same thing as like buying skins and micro transactions to all the big name studio games right now anyway. So, I mean, ultimately, as long as the game is fun, it doesn't matter what the background, what happens. It's, it sounds, it sounds like really like, uh, with, with gaming is like. Allow me to have some fun and with defy it's like, yo, make me some money and we're both getting closer like defy and gaming. Both are getting closer to like this Uh, getting back to almost like the real world beyond just the, the, the D Gen or like these, uh, DeFi skins for, for gaming. We're getting closer to actually being able to use crypto in the real world and just helping people make money in the same way with gaming, just allowing people to have fun. I love how you put that, Alex. It was so eloquent. Yep. Couldn't agree with you more. All right. So I, so we're coming up at about an hour mark here and I want to ask you mute real quick? My bad. I got a little feedback going. Um, I want to ask Aloha some random gaming questions. So I'm going to ask you a very loaded question. Why is Baldur's Gate 3 your favorite game? And if it's not, what's wrong with you? I am not playing Baldur's Gate and I'll tell you why. And it's not because I don't like the game. It's just because. My, my gaming style is playing at a competitive level all the time, and if I install a game, it'll suck the life out of me, and then I'll get in trouble in all sorts of aspects of my life, so I just cannot take the time to buy it and play it. Same reason I don't have Starfield. I've watched the streams, I've seen the videos, but if I get it, I will just spin out of control and I'll become obsessed with it. I love that you said that, dude, because I'm the exact same way. I did get bald as gay three and there was a time where it was like controlling my life. So like I could completely understand man. I was a huge Madden player back in the day as well. And even though I haven't bought a Madden in the last like Eight nine years or something like that. I still watch people playing the game Just just because like I still love watching the game be played But I know that if I would ever buy it it's going to open up a rabbit hole That I can't ever close and I know there's people out there who love gogopool. Love what we're building And I would hate to ruin that by playing Madden all day. Yep, I completely relate and I can, it's like one or two games at a time is my limit because I just, other things would suffer and then I would get in all sorts of trouble. Dude, I completely understand my man. All right Let's go ahead and close this thing. Actually. No, no, no, no. No, I want to ask alex too. Alex. What's your favorite video game? My favorite video game is honestly whatever which probably ends up being something like I just want something to be on a grant background as a way to like enjoy it with my Energy enjoy it with my cousins for me It's very much more of a social thing more than anything else As long as I can have like a beer with it and talk to my buddies. That's that's exactly what I want I loved it. I loved it. Actually somebody is requesting to speak. Let's see Someone's pre let's get, Musketeer, let's get you up here, my friend. Musketeer, you got the floor. And you're on mute, my friend, if you're speaking. I'm, I'm a little new to Web3 gaming, I was just trying to find out where is, uh, resources on how I can find out how to invest in this off grid game, and the AVAX game. Yeah, so you could go, if you want to check out Off the Grid, you can either go over to Gunzilla's Twitter, or you can just go direct to the, uh, Off the Grid Twitter. Uh, both of those have all the information on the game, and they actually just opened their Discord, I think it was yesterday, Um, that has the trailers, all the information, and kind of all the links, the latest... Um, and if you still, if you, if you can't find them or you're having trouble finding them, shoot me a DM as well, and I'll happy to shoot you the links to those. All right. Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. So you gotta love the AVEX ecosystem space. You know, people come in, they can ask, ask, ask high level people questions, get answers, man. And then also business deals happen on this show randomly as well. So I love this. All right. Cool. So. All right, coming up the hour mark here my friends, I'm gonna start closing this thing down. I'm gonna open things up with closing remarks from our panel of speakers here. I'm actually gonna start off with my friend Alex Lumley with Savvy Defy. You got any closing remarks or anything you want to show? Uh, no, I just want to say thank you to a lot of respect for doing a lot of interesting and awesome work and pushing the game forward and I can't wait for the day where I can actually like sit down and play cool and great games with my little cousins and be like, Yo, see this is kind of what web three is, is a way to, you know. Convert them to the dark side. So, so, so I appreciate you guys and thanks so much for coming on. I, I, I always learn a lot from you guys. Thank you for that closing remark. You are so kind to Alex. Um, I'm also going to ask Aloha. You got any closing remarks for the people? Anything you want to show? I almost just fell down the stairs. I got a lot of stuff I could show, but I won't. I just want to say thanks to bring us up here. And these spaces are always fun, entertaining, and I love meeting and talking to everybody. So. You know, we look forward to pushing the gaming space forward together, you know Even just with the gaming and avalanche team or you know chain agnostic all together as long as you know Web3 gaming wins we all win. Um, so i'm just happy to you know, talk gaming all the time So if anyone ever has a question or just wants to talk or chat or chill anything My dms are always open. So feel free to hit me up. Awesome, man And again, thanks. Thank you so much for popping on to coop and And, uh, in park as well. We're here with us in spirit, but we're here in the physical a few minutes ago. I want to thank them as well. I'm on the Google pool side of things. Nothing to show. Nothing to show. Also, for anyone out there who has been using balancer, don't use their front end anymore. They're having issues. So don't use it anymore. So I guess I will use this to say that, um, up until further notice. And on the previous side of things, I am possibly making a new podcast for folks. So you guys can look forward to that. Follow my channels. Brevi got wrecked and Brevi got R E K T Brevi got wrecked. I'm going to, it's going to be everything but web three. So I'm going to bring on web three people and talk to them about their actual lives and like what they actually got going on and what they like. So if you want to learn more about. Folks in web three definitely need to follow me and I made that rhyme baby. All right, let's get this thing closed my friends here Remember guys we do this thing every single week wednesday at three o'clock p. m Bst a little bit of a special week We had a, uh, earlier we had a double header this week and then we, uh, switched up the timing a little bit for the day. Might actually decide to switch up the day as well to Friday. Cause we were talking about doing some happy hour stuff. Like I'd be kind of dope if everybody come through, maybe a little beer, a little wine, ski, get a little loose. So, you know, we'll see what's going on with that, but stay tuned in order to get those notifications. And well, I guess since they, in order to stay updated, make sure you're following our panel up here. Make sure you're following go, go pool, savvy, defy trade to low high. So you can stay up to date with everything that's happening. And what's my usual saying? Y'all, I think y'all know what I'm about to say right now. You don't gotta go home, but you gotta get up on out of here. Y'all peace.