AVAX Hit 1 Million Users...Let's Find Out What They're Doing

GoGoPool, Savvy Defi, and Landslide talk to Pangolin and Steadefi about what AVAX users are doing in defi.

Social Links:
GoGoPool Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoGoPool_
Savvy DeFi Twitter: https://twitter.com/SavvyDeFi
Landslide Twitter: https://twitter.com/CosmosAVAX

Transcript

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I would like to welcome everyone to the Avax ecosystem space. I am one of your lovely hosts. My name is Brey. I do growth marketing strategies for Go-Go Pool. We're a permissionless liquid staking protocol and what we do is with our liquor staking protocol, we help subnets launch at half cost. That's right, half cost baby. I am joined by my lovely co-host. Uh, we have, we have Nathan of landslide here. Say, what's up my friend? Good day. Good day to you. Good day to you. And we also have Alex Lumley, a savvy defi here. Say, what's up my friend? Oh. Hello. Hello. Good day. Hey, it is excellent having both of my lovely co-hosts here. And I am joined. I am joined by some big dogs in the Avalanche community here. We're gonna start off with my friend Kevin, marketing lead for Steady Fi. Say, what's up my friend? Hey gm, everybody. I love your energy. Brey, gm. Gm. I forgot whether it was, uh, I think it might have been you, Kevin, who started as the bucket of coffee. I'm like, he doesn't know about my energy yet. Well, you were saying getting up at 5:00 AM That's what I did this morning. So it's, uh, currently 6:00 AM for me, so Oh my goodness. Yeah. So thanks. Super appreciate joined. By Eric here, marketing lead for Pangolin. Say, what's up my friend? Hey, what's up guys? Thanks for having us on. Excited to chat with everybody. Hey, it is no problem at all. We are very, very excited to chat with you as well. I'm just gonna go over the agenda really quick everybody. So we're gonna start this thing up. We're gonna give quick project overviews just in case you've been living under a rock. You don't know who these two megastar are. Then after that we're gonna talk a little bit about, we're gonna talk about El. Some major, major news. Talk a little bit about that. We're gonna talk about the Binance s e c situation along with Coinbase as well, put them in there as well. So we definitely gotta talk a little bit about that. But to start everything off, I'm gonna pick on steady five first, and then we'll go over to Penguin. Can, uh, can you just give me, uh, just a quick overview of what you folks are building over there? Yeah, uh, sure. So we, we are building yield strategy vaults, uh, kind of built up over the top of, uh, many of the protocols in the, in the ecosystem. Um, so far we have vaults on Trader Joe and Penguin, who is here with us. And then also, uh, on G M X G L P, uh, we do under collateralized loans, which is, uh, basically we have lending vaults, and then we have the strategy vaults, which borrow from the lending vaults. We're all about optimizing yields for people. We're also offering some, uh, automated risk management. It's kind of the, the lowdown I guess. Oh man. We definitely gonna have to go a lot deeper to a lot of those. One of one of those specific things is automated risk management, but before we go too, too far into it, um, I often wanna give Pangolin the floor as well. Sure. Can you just give us a quick, uh, overview of what you folks are building? Yeah, for sure. So if you're unfamiliar, pangolin was one of the first decks launched on Avalanche back in early 2021. We kicked off with, uh, a hundred percent community distributed airdrop to early lasers. On, on, I'm here since the airdrop. Big fan. Well done. Great air. Dude. That's some OG stuff, man. If you've been here two years, um, But yeah, so since then, uh, July of 2021, we had a community governance vote to bring on a core team. And, uh, since then we've expanded to about 14 full-time people helping out with the dao. Uh, we've been building basically solutions to connect as many chains and assets as possible. So we've launched dex contracts and governance tokens on a few other chains, and we've also launched a product called Bridge Swap, which you can find on our decks that, uh, aggregates, bridges and decks on up to like 40 different chains and allows people to do single approval transactions to go across chain. So if you're coming from Ethereum or another network, you can go native gas token to Native gas token. Uh, we have some cool things coming up this year. We're working on kind of bolstering our governance model so that we can do more governance votes and get more people involved. So we're excited about it. Let's go. I, and there's definitely a bunch of different ways that we can go with that, um, with that specific conversation as well. Ly, before we go, I wanna, I wanna talk to Steadi a little bit about their automated risk strategies and like how, how, like, how all of that works. Uh, yeah, sure. I can actually use, um, maybe the penguin Vaults that we have as an example, kind of get a, a double shill here. Uh, so we offer something like a, a neutral vault, which is built on top of, um, penguin's, Avax, U S D C, uh, uh, farm. And then we, in that, in that vault for example, it's, it's market neutral, so you don't have to worry about the price of, uh, AVAs if it's going up or down. It's more of the vault that focuses on, uh, building up yields, which auto compound. And then the vault has keepers, which, uh, will rebalance called a rebalance based on your position's, uh, debt ratio, the debt ratio with the lending vault, and then also the delta. So that's a delta zero. It's kind of a little more advanced, but uh, uh, if anyone goes to our site, for example, they can, they can see some, some fancy looking charts that'll help them maybe understand how, how it works exactly. And then we have a long vault also on penguins, uh, Avax, U S D C, which, uh, is for the bullish, the bullish avax among us. Ava, uh, believers who believe that, uh, you know, uh, the long-term future of Ava, especially in the price section, um, will be going up, we'll trend upwards. So then, uh, they're just accumulating avax. It'll be a delta one. And again, our vault will rebalance based on, um, kind of the. Uh, volatility of the market if it's, if it's moving too, too, too far in one direction or the other. So basically, um, you know, in the old school, leverage yield farming world, you'd, uh, people taking out positions, taking out loans to, uh, optimize their yields or boost their yields, would have to kind of manually manage their position, make sure that they, uh, weren't about to get liquidated or anything like that. But our, our vaults basically, um, automate that entire process for you so you don't have to manage it. You can touch grass, get sleep, all of those great things that we are much needed in crypto, especially in a bear market. That's gonna be, that's it. Can I give you a follow up? So I'm looking at the, the, the, the, the vaults right now. So there are two neutral strategies and they're both avac, U S D C, one is Penguin and one is Trader Joe. Yep. Why is Pangolins a p y at, at, on this Vault 87 and the Trader Joe is a one 40? What accounts for this sort of Oh, yeah, yeah. I think you're looking at the, the APRs with the incentivized, uh, ES steady, um, right. But yeah. Um, the, the base yields the real yield, uh, so to speak. Uh, yeah, 36 points. 36% versus the Trader Joe, which is, yeah. Um, as you said, a much lower, yeah. Yeah. The, the, the Pango one is 33.7 yield and then says, Yeah, I'm just curious, how are these, uh, so we get the APRs from the, the protocols themselves, um, the, the reported APRs, and we, uh, obviously look into how they calculate those as well. Uh, but Trader Joe is, as you may know, kind of, uh, moving past their v2, their old school kind of farms. So they've stopped, uh, they've lowered the emissions of the, the Joe Token. Um, they've kind of moved towards focusing on their liquidity bins. So, um, you'll see much less T B L in, in those farms, a lot less swaps and, and yields coming from that in particular. So, Penland, um, a, as I'm sure they can speak to more, um, has still, uh, had a decent focus on their, their V2 old school farms. So that's why you'll see a, a, uh, higher a p y with that one. Is there a possibility with integration, integration with like liquidity books, farms, or has that already happened? Uh, yeah. We're actually, uh, monitoring that very closely, especially now that, uh, trader Joe has released the, um, auto pools, the, the rebalancing, auto rebalancing kind of thing. So we would, we would build, uh, three times leverage on top of those positions. Uh, but obviously with, with leverage comes, uh, quite a bit of risk, especially with, uh, divergent losses or, or, um, uh, IM permanent loss, things like that. Uh, so we're, we're monitoring that very closely. Trying to find out if there's a kind of a, a solution that Trader Joe has come up with that other protocols haven't been able to. I'm also curious, I know it's leverage in, um, it's through like under collateralized loans. Like how does that whole process work? Like how is that possible? Yeah, so, uh, basically w uh, people will deposited into our strategy vaults are, are taking out loans from our lending vaults. So they don't, they don't have to deposit anything into the lending vaults as long as there's, uh, liquidity available. So that, that, that in the sense is, uh, under collateralized loan and that you don't have to supply any collateral to take to, uh, deposit indoor strategy vaults, if that makes sense. Wait, you don't have to deposit any collateral at all? No. Yep. If you're depositing into a strategy vault, you wouldn't have to put anything in Lending Vaults. Uh, those are supplied by other people who are trying to take, trying to take advantage of maybe a, a risk off track. Um, gotcha. So there's. There's two separate sides to the protocol. Then there's the, the lending side of the protocol, and then there's more of the borrowing side, I would say. Yep, yep. So that's kind of our risk, risk off, risk on kind of, uh, idea. Um, got, and then our, got you. So our, our, our risk on the borrowing vaults also share some yields with the, with the lending vaults to, in order to kind of boost up those, uh, real yield APRs. Gotcha. And, and where does the actual yield come from? Yeah, so the, the yield on the strategy vaults would come from the, the underlying protocol with the three times leverage. And then, uh, the lending vaults would be the interest rates from the, from the borrowing vaults. Well, there are the emission rates from the L one s at the time, right? Yeah. Yeah. Got you. Okay. Okay. So that, so that answers another one of my questions cuz I know earlier you had said, you had, you had talked about there were market neutral vaults, and I was wondering like how, if it's market neutral, like how does it make yield so that yield is coming from the underlying protocol? Yeah. On the neutral vault. Okay, got you. So that's, that's the auto compounding, the, the swap yields, you know, any kind of the fees that the, that deposition's creating and then also the, any of the, uh, incentive tokens. So with the, with the long vault, cause I, I think you had said that the long vault's getting paid out in Avax, right? Yep. So it's an AVA in Avax out, uh, vault. Yeah. Okay. Ava in Avax out. So in the, in the backend, is the yield coming from it being like delegated to like a, um, validator or something like that? Uh, no, the, the, the yield would be just, uh, compounded back into the position. So, uh, yeah, we, we have a, a flow chart in our, in our documentation that might be handy. Of course, this is a Twitter space, so I can't really, uh, share that, but, uh, we'll put it up on the Chiron. Wait, uh, where is that flow chart? Sorry, I totally just got lost looking at, at, at your docs and forgot that we were on a Twitter space. Um, so yeah, no, they're, they're great. And I was, and I, and I was playing around, but just, just outta curiosity, where is that flow chart? Uh, yeah, so if you go to strategy vaults on our documentation on the left side and you go down to, for example, uh, the three times long avax U S d Pangolin, yeah. You can click, click on that and you'll see kind of the flow chart of how our, our vault works. Super cool. Yeah. Thanks. Yep. So, yeah. Um, I'm sorry. I'm also, I'm also trying to share one of your posts. I'm doing like marketing on the side too, like Yeah, no worries. Yeah, no. So deposit, deposits, vault lending, pool, borrow, you know, borrows from lending pool and then the liquidity pool. And for example, penguin, you know, deposit assets, receive LP tokens, mean earning swap fees, and those are auto compounded. So, so, so if you were to make this like very high level, um, like, uh, like I've actually, last week I've been onboarding my dad in, in into crypto. Slowly but surely. Right, right there. Brave man during a bear market. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, and, and so many times he's like, but can I like do stuff now? And I'm like, no, no, no, you, you, you gotta wait a little bit more. So, um, but if you were to try to explain like why Steadi versus any other thing that he could do with his, with his crypto, like, um, what's the high level thing that like he could understand? Yeah, I think, uh, For, for, uh, people in that situation, they could actually, for people who enjoy yield positions, especially, um, versus just holding onto an asset and waiting for the price to go up, uh, and they can actually form kind of their market view. So if your dad, for example, believes that the, the market is, is gonna be trending upwards, uh, finally, then, uh, he could, he could choose a long vault, for example, in, in an asset that he likes, for example, um, ABEX for now. Uh, or e if in an arbitrary eth of course. And then also if he believes that the market is gonna be kind of in the situation it is, where it's just trending sideways. He could do a nu neutral vault, doesn't have to worry about his, um, his principle position, the amount of money that's, you know, his initial deposit as much as just worrying about, um, accumulating yields over time. Which are, again, compounded back into the position. So it allows, allows people to, um, finally, uh, take a position. You know, it, I think back in the bowl back in 2020, uh, early 2022, late 2021, uh, people were kind of in a, in a, an up only position for, uh, especially for yield farming. And that kind of left a lot of people in the dust when the market crashed. And they didn't have any kind of, uh, risk management for their positions or, um, yeah, they weren't, uh, personally for myself, I also wasn't ready for it. So this kind of product is perfect for people who have a, a clear view of, of how they feel the market's gonna go. I like that you have, you know, two separate products, um, one that's neutral, you know, for those kind of, you know, those times where nothing's really happening, kind of like right now, almost. Yep. Um, yeah. Um, but then you also have like the bullish long position to where if I am super excited about what a avalanche is building and you know, I want to be in avalanche for the long term, I can accrue avalanche over time very easily. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I want to talk to you about steady versus Es steady. Um, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna give the floor a Pangolin really quick. Sure, yeah. And we're gonna talk a little about Elixir first, and then we can head on over to steady. Oh, for sure. Yep. Um, more coffee for me. So I eat some pancakes too. Now, uh, now Eric, um, can you tell us a little bit about what you guys are building as far as with Elixir? Yeah, for sure. So Elixir's gonna be a concentrated liquidity solution that we're deploying to Avalanche hopefully within the next four weeks. Uh, we held a governance vote about two months ago, a month and a half ago. Uh, and community voted to, to bring concentrated liquidity to Pangolin on Avalanche. Uh, the foundation is based on Unity three contracts with some slight improvements for farming. Uh, the farms are in development, so we'll launch with Elixir pools first, and then we'll follow up with Elixir Farms. Uh, but basically if you're familiar with Uni v3, it'll feel, uh, very similar. Uh, so it's contrary liquidity. You have multiple fee tiers and non fungible. Liquidity positions. Um, so you'll take, uh, instead of like creating LP tokens like you do now, you're gonna choose a range, uh, with three different tiers. Like, so you do a wider range, a medium range, or a very tight range depending on what you're doing. So for users who are used to the way we've done LP since launch, it'll be a little different and you'll have to manage it a little bit more active if it's a pair that has more price swings, um, but it offers like a more capital efficient experience for LPs. Um, and we think, you know, more control for LPs is the move in the long run. Uh, trader Joe did liquidity bends and uh, it's worked out well for them. A lot of times you can get, you know, less slippage with less T B L, which, especially in markets like this is a great thing to have. Um, so we'll be releasing a lot more information closer to launch with like tutorials, guides, and basically helping people who've been providing liquidity on our V two contracts, uh, like showing them how to transition. So it'll be a while where, uh, we'll have both and our V two contracts aren't going anywhere. They're gonna be live in perpetuity. It's just our UI will, uh, show preference and it will route through the elixir contracts if there's a better option there than in v2. So I have a, I have a few questions on the concentrated, on concentrated liquidity. So I wanna give you my understanding first and then just a few. Yeah, just a few. Just a few. So, concentrated liquidity to my knowledge, and this is, this might sound completely wrong, so we're, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna go on a journey here. To my knowledge, regular liquidity providing you are providing liquidity at every single price point. Yeah. And, and that could be annoying because of slippage or there's a very, there's a multitude of different ways. It could be annoying, but what makes concentrated liquidity, uh, better is you can decide, hey, I only wanna provide liquidity between the ranges of a dollar and a dollar 50. Exactly, yes. And for that, yeah, if you go tighter, you'll get a higher percentage of fees there and the swap fees and with our farming solution as well. So that means you basically become a market maker at a price point. Exactly. Yes. Oh, that was perfect. Thank you for that. Yeah, I think that's a perfect breakdown of it. So it's definitely, if you've been an LP in the past where you can kind of just set it and forget it. It's a little different because if it moves, if you're in a tight price range and it moves out of that, you're gonna stop earning those fees on it. So you'll have to manage it, set alerts, do things like that to make sure that, uh, you're always getting fees if you wanna get the most out of the capital that you have in there. And how, how detailed is, is this structure? Cause I, I think you said something about you can go to wide range, medium to all the way down to low. Is that like a auto set feature to where it'll kind of go to the kind of prices that would make the most sense? Or am I kind of figuring out? Yeah, yeah. It'll be, you, you'll just have to choose between three. So it'll be like tight, medium, and then a larger range. Uh, so everybody kind of has an option. If you don't wanna be as active, you can kind of go in the wider range, which means you'll earn, you know, less fees, but also you don't have to manage it as actively. Okay. Wow, that's, that sounds really cool. And so I, I'm, I'm also curious with this, cause I think they're, cause I heard steady fire, if they're auto rebalancing, is that something that you guys have ever thought about with, uh, this specific thing like auto rebalancing As far as through every range? Yeah. I haven't been that deep. Like we've been kind of just working on, on getting it ready for production right now. So I don't believe that's in the works, but, uh, it definitely could be down the line. Uh, I think, you know, I think people really like auto re it's nice to not have to manage things as actively for a lot of users. So I'm sure it's in consideration, but not at the time being. Got you, got you. Yeah, and I, I completely understand too, like you, I mean, when, when you're building a product like this, it's, you gotta put like, you know, you're all into it, so you can't really like, be building a second product already. Gotta get the first one out, man. Yeah, I think we've all been in crypto long enough where, you know, things always end up taking more time than you want. Like in a, in a perfect world, you know, it'd be live already, but it does take some time and you wanna be careful for sure. Especially when people's monies are, or people's like capital's locked inside of a contract, gotta make sure it's, it's iron tight. Yeah, exactly. And I'll love that two folks are focusing on that front. Now I do want to talk a little bit to steadi about this, um, this steady token versus es steady. Can you kind of go over the technomics and, um, why would I get one versus the other? Oh, sure. Uh, they're, they're basically the same token. Um, One is just the, the, it is called the escrow version of, of the steady token, and that's, that's the utility token for our ecosystem, the ES study, or STE if you wanna pronounce it that way. Um, so this one is, uh, the one that we're distributing right now for people who are providing liquidity, uh, into our, into our, our system. Uh, the ES steady token. And this is, uh, prior to token launch. So, um, ES steady is the, not, it's a utility, so it's not, and it's not, um, transferable, it's not buyer or sellable. Um, it's basically only used for, um, staking for, uh, protocol dividends pro, uh, sharing in the protocol fees and then also in, in boosting your yields eventually on your positions. So that's the EA steady token. Which we're now distributing. You can see the, the somewhat slightly, uh, well not slightly, but pretty degen uh, APRs on our site for those. Um, so that's just to get people to kind of, uh, lock into our system before we launch our token, which is the steady token. Um, and that's coming mid q3 early, early to mid q3. I guess we're kind of already into q3, uh, depending on how you read the calendars. Uh, sorry. Are, are, are you guys already doing a token sale? Uh, uh, like has it been announced yet or, or not yet. Oh, we haven't announced the, the actual token launch yet. Yeah. So, yeah. Uh, that, that'll be the steady, the steady token itself. Um, it's layer zero by the way. So it's, um, omni chain. And awesome. Great choice. Yeah. Yeah. Especially in, in this, uh, new system where everyone's kind of on multiple chains, uh, this will give us the flexibility, especially as we, uh, continue to expand out, um, from avalanche in Arbitron. So the, the token will be launched steady, and that's the, the buyer sellable, uh, to token. And then, uh, people can also lock that for ES steady, um, at any time for, uh, enjoining the utilities that we offer and, and NFA and no US citizens will be to from or within. Yes, exactly. We have that disclaimer on our site. Um, when you, when you first enter, so, um, I'm sorry, to the, the American residents out there are American citizens. Yeah. Yeah, I'm crying. Yeah. Maybe it'll be, maybe it'll be fixed by, by the time we launch our token, it will not be fixed. No, no, no. Us people allow, uh, yeah. That's a sad cry for me. Yeah. Every, yeah. America has decided to be very resilient in, in our, in our stupidity. Um, well, speaking about, uh, America being stupid, uh, sorry, Bri might, it might, might have asked Kevin one more question. Is there a, is there a chance for any, for returns to ever be negative on, um, on edi? Uh, yeah, so that's kind of one of our selling points as well for the strategy strategy vaults especially. Um, so since the strategy vaults are, are, um, sharing some yield with the lending vaults, in return, they receive a, a kind of a, a borrowing rate that's always below the yield rate, if that makes sense. So you would never see negative APRs, which you might see in, um, some leverage yield farmings, uh, platforms. Uh, so yeah, I think that's your question, right? Uh, yeah. Oh, and, and, and to be honest, um, so, so, uh, my co-founder, Roman and I already already spoke to, to Jeff from Seti. Yes. And, and we, if we were, we were talking, and I, and I think there's a way for us to, um, like basically build on top of you guys. So just because Ava ecosystem, the place where business gets done, um, tm, uh, like Kevin, we'll let talk to you about that again in the future. Now that you guys are on, uh, are on arro. So, um, that's, that's, that's cool. And it's helpful. Yeah. Sorry, Brey did, it didn't mean to intro interrupt you. Nah, man. No worries, man. That's what the ecosystem space is for, man. You had information that you needed and we had the correct person out here to get you that information, my friend. That's what this whole place is for. Um, but dang it, that would've been a very fire transition, Alex. I was loving how that transition was shaping up, but it's all good my friend. So we're gonna talk a little bit, um, so e everyone knows what happened this week. Um, if you don't know, we're about to talk about it right now. Um, so s e c just hit Binance, Coinbase, and I wanna say one other exchange as well with a lawsuit. And I just wanted to ask the happy panel here, their thoughts about what's going on. Uh, we can, we can start off with Kevin from No, no. We'll start off with Eric cuz Eric's been chilling. Yeah, here we go. Uh, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm based in the US so. It definitely hits home here. You know, we've been in the space for a while and there hasn't been a lot of regulatory clarity. It's kind of been something that has been teased. The s e c might be making moves for a while now, and, uh, it's pretty, it's a bummer to see. Uh, I'm a huge, I've been a Coinbase user for a long time, just as like my main on-ramp and, you know, to see them getting sued and they've been asking for a long time to get clarity and going in, and they seem to, you know, they, they're a publicly traded company to cover all their bases, so it feels kind of like a witch hunt and almost like a, like they're trying to purposely do harm to our industry, which sucks. Uh, you know, we, they're definitely are problems, but it to me is not the way to go about it. So, uh, might take us, yeah, not a fan. I'm hoping it, I'm hoping there's a good resolution. And that we can move past this and, and not have to worry, especially as us residents of, you know, our entire industry getting, uh, banned in our country would be a huge bummer. Yeah, that'd be a major bummer. Um, I have, my whole life is this career at this point, so, so that would be a huge memory. I'm, I'm curious to know your thoughts of how Coinbase could be a publicly traded company who has been very, very outward in their want to get clarity on all these regulations. Like it even possible for then a Gary Gensler to then serve them. Doesn't make sense cause it's cor it's corporate fascism. And I, I'll, I'll, the rant is due. Just, just let me know when you'd like me to deliver it. I, I, I think this is the time. I think this is the time, Nathan. Okay? I say this as someone who voted for Biden and who voted for Obama. Okay? This, if you're on the left and you like, listen to SL Gik and these philosophers, they, they imperial, uh, fascism as imperialism turned inward on itself, right? So rather than have a government which supports its own, uh, uh, um, businesses, right now we're seeing a government attack its own businesses, which is corporate fascism. Right? And what that means is like Coinbase, which has been begging. And trying to be compliant and has been listed on the stock exchange. Dude, you don't get a listing on the stock exchange unless you're compliant, right. Uber is a completely different animal. They've never wanted to comply. They wanted to drive a stake through the heart of, of a particular industry and state regulations, and they didn't care at all. They were a private company. In this case, it's public. They've been doing it for years. They're, these are completely made up. Uh, uh, uh, it's a war from the government against its own business class, which is really, really strange. I'm, why, why, why is America specifically like so adverse to crypto? It just doesn't, it just doesn't really make sense to me. It's because they're so threatened by what this is, right? It's, this is not the sovereign u S D. And that's, that's what this is about, right? It's economic warfare. Like I, I don't know how else you can see this. And, and unfortunately it's like telling, you know, kids that they can't have drugs or, or access to sex. It's just gonna make it even, uh, you know, it's gonna increase the demand, which is hilarious. So rather than have like a coherent strategy, Biden unleashed a dog, um, with no accountability to anyone. And it certainly not the law. Gensler's making up his own, uh, you know, interpretation of the Howie test rather than he's even making up his own interpretation of like what the Howie test was even about, right? He's saying that the Orange Grove itself, Is a security, but that's not the case. The the investment contract is around the future profits of the orange grove. But dude, oranges are not a security. We can't just go on whatever book Gensler's going on. That's why we have laws. So I'm so glad that that Coinbase is going to war with them because dude, somebody needs to go to war with them. You can't, you can't just have a unilateral discussion about what this guy thinks is the law. That's why you have a system of laws. So I'm, I'm curious to know everyone's thoughts about like how this affects, you know, crypto, you know, short term, um, leading into long term. Um, like specifically with Coinbase, right? Like, cuz I, I use Coinbase pretty heavily. I got, you know, this is how I do my auto investments. I got it on auto Invests and I just kind of let things keep going and then, um, it's just super easy. Connect your bank account. It's really, really easy. Um, and it's my off-ramp too. Would this mean that this is, that Coinbase is no longer off and on ramp anymore? It's a, it's a great question. I, I don't think so because they, the, the S E C basically has extra judiciously made claims, but they have to prove them. And so, you know, and the claim is large, right? They're saying that they're an illegal broker, which is, is, is like insane. So they have to, they have to bear it out. This is why Coinbase sacked away 4 billion for crypto winter cuz they saw the writing on the on the wall. It doesn't mean that you can't withdraw your assets, um, from, from U s D, but if they win, it could, if they win that, that, that will be very, very weird. Right? Cuz they'll then, they'll go after Kraken. Uh, and, and that's weird. So is Kraken larger or smaller than Coinbase? Smaller. Smaller. And they're, but they're, but to, to, to, to be clear, Krakens owners are way more, uh, uh, like stick in the eye of the, of the regulators than, than Brian Armstrong and their, the Coinbase, uh, um, uh, like lawyers, I mean, but, so Coinbase is way bigger and way more compliant. And like corporate, dude, these guys are public stock, you know, group. Yeah, I'm, I'm curious is cuz why would they go after the most compliant entity that they could go after? Like, if I'm thinking strategically, um, I would probably want to go after someone who I would think is operating a little bit on the shadier side of things so that I can kind of prove my case and say, Hey, crypto, it's shady because of this. Yeah. But I, I, yeah, I don't know. I don't get it, it, it doesn't make sense to me as, as well. If you, if you take out the biggest, the biggest one, it's, it's gonna make the other ones a lot easier. Yeah. Yeah. Their, their theory is it's just economic warfare. This is, if you think about it like that, they're concerned about their sovereign control over U s D and, and cbdc. Now, I'm, Kevin, I'm curious your perspective on this as well. Like, what do you, how do you think this will affect crypto in the, in the short term? Like Coinbase as well as the, like, the Binance situation as well. Uh, yeah. Well, I mean, that was, that was the pretty, pretty effective, uh, summary right there. Um, but, uh, I, I currently reside, you know, out in Asia, so a little bit maybe removed from the whole, um, the whole, uh, sense in the, in the atmosphere. Uh, but from my circles, the financing I felt like that was coming for, for, uh, for quite a while. Uh, you could tell, you know, there's a, maybe a culture, a work culture, maybe a Binance that's probably a little different from Coinbase. Obviously I can't see behind the curtains, but, um, some of the, some of the vibes that I was getting from Binance was that, that they're gonna come after'em. And then, uh, the, actually the Coinbase one was, was in, you know, with. Was it, uh, the people that I talked with, um, the Coinbase one was actually kind of welcomed. Uh, like he was saying, uh, landslide, co co-host there. Uh, there, this is gonna be something where we can finally talk about it. You know, like, uh, there, I remember there was some big hearings a couple years ago that, um, kind of brought out some, some conversations in legislation and in government there. Uh, but that was sort of, kind of ignored, or, or it's been maybe a year now since Thoses. Um, it's time to finally bring it out. And I think Coinbase is a good representative for it. They had a great tweet afterwards, which showed, shared the numbers, um, that they have on their side. And, uh, I, yeah, I, I'm fully confident that they'll be able to back them up in, in, in, uh, any kind of hearing that the s throws at them. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's almost, it's almost like you can, you can have mixed feelings about the whole situation, right? Because you could almost be scared about the situation because if they lose, you know, things don't look the greatest. Um, but you can also be excited about the situation because we're finally gonna actually get clarity on regulations. I mean, you know, for anyone out there in America, there is no clarity on crypto whatsoever. And when I, when I say clarity, I mean, you don't know if what you're doing is gonna be considered a security. You don't know what sort of, uh, requirements or regulations you need to operate within. There's just like, literally nothing. It's like a, it's literally like the old, it's like an old school gold rush. Like it's just lawless as fuck out here. Uh, but you can't, but you can't even be lawful. You, you, there's no office to walk into. That's, that's Brian Armstrong's point. Right. Yeah. They're trying to register and get the licensing and get the, the disclosures and get the, the, the, um, accreditation, whatever they need, but they're being refused and it, if you're ice and stonewalled, like how are you supposed to function? Yeah. I, I, I don't know what even like they would want other than what Coinbase has been at, because it's, it's one thing if Coinbase is. Being shady, not answering emails, being unresponsive, not trying to get regulation, but they're actively trying to get regulation and then they get hit with a lawsuit. Just, just really, really makes no sense overall. Um, yeah. Yeah. Just makes no sense. And then if they're worried, if they're worried about drug money, like look at h s bbc, like the banks are notoriously like fined in fact by Elizabeth Warren who's led the charge. Like she should know of every of anyone that the rule breakers or the banks not. Dude, if you're gonna buy and sell drugs with crypto, you're gonna be in jail. It's really easy to find. Yes, yes. I, I was talking to somebody about this and they were like, don't they just use crypto for drugs? And I'm like, I mean, you can. But, uh, blockchain is super public, so good luck. Like every single thing you're doing is literally gonna be historical data, so good luck on that. You should definitely stick to cash. Also, I, I knew Binance was gonna get hit with something eventually because CZ has been, um, pretty outspoken as just a personality over Twitter over the last few years. Dude, they brought receipts span, they got receipts from the CCOs, and these guys look, the, the s a C case against Binance is like a completely different dog. You know, they brought two dogs. Does Binance actually, should they actually be scared by dance? Oh, dude, yeah. In my opinion, yes. They're going personally with receipts. Dude. Oh man. Oh man. Things. Things are, things are gonna, things are gonna change up quite a bit. Um, so what you're saying is I should transfer my assets out of Binance. Don't, don't have any assets in Binance, period. All right. Need to transfer them. Then. I got some AVAs on there. We weren't, we weren't in the lawsuit. Luckily you don't. Not anymore. You don't. Yeah. Well, it's, yeah. Oh, wait. Can you not move anything out of finance now? Well, well, it's been nice having you on this podcast briefing and we'll talk to you another time. Oh my goodness. You guys just heard this live. You guys get to hear me know that I am screwed live. No, you're not screwed. Just, just be responsible and change your uh, uh, your handle from Brey. Brey got wrecked to something else. Brey Brey got wrecked again. All right, folks, we're, we're coming up at the hour mark. I'm gonna start opening, but I did wanna talk about, about Pangolin a bit, um, and, and give them some props. So, um, uh, to the Pango team, so we're at landslide, we're bringing I b C to Avalanche, which means osmosis will be able to talk natively to Pangolin. That's awesome, man. Yeah, so like you guys, you, we will, we'll bring osmosis, liquidity, a cji, liquidity a, any of the I B C connected chains, they'll be able to natively talk to, um, top Tango, um, within the, within, probably within the next couple months. But just that's sort of the, the, the progress that we've been building. And the good, the good news about I B C is that it's open source, is that it's processed 29 billion of transactions in the last year. And, uh, it's like it, dude, the thing is open source. Okay. So the risk is spread out. Yeah. That's amazing. Um, I've been saying this a lot too cuz we have bridge swap that connects so many different chains and comparing where we're gonna be even in a year, uh, compared to where we were in the last kind of run up for the bull. Like being able to connect all these chains and, and easily talk to one another and like swap assets across is, is something that I'm super excited for. Um, and building up that functionality I think is great. And, and once we're back to, to cruising altitude as far as the market, I could just see it, it opens up so many opportunities for communities to connect, which is amazing. Yeah. Have you looked at cavalry integration on Avalanche where they have multi-asset swaps? Yeah, I've looked at, I haven't used it yet, but, uh, I'm familiar. Cool. It's cool. And there's, yeah, it's fun to see everything. Everybody's building really awesome things, uh, that are fun to use. And like, you know, the more features that we have that make it easier for users, uh, to, to move their money around is amazing. Yeah. And, you know, from, from the steady five perspective, like my, uh, risk, uh, profile is so paranoid. I would, what I'd really like to see is like, you know, we've been sort of developing like a G P T for, for investing, something that could crawl the steady five vaults. Explain to me there, explain to me the emission schedule, how it relates to the, uh, the risk for each vault. I'd love to see that. Yeah. We, we initially did explore, um, kind of risk ratings for, um, each of the vaults. But, um, that, that becomes kind of a, a kind of arbitrary, uh, unless you have some really deep advanced me metrics on, on things. Um, but it's something we are looking into as far as in the future, uh, giving different risk ratings and, and profiles for, for each fault. Definitely. Yeah. Cuz cause these, you know, the a p y that's, that's given on the vault is like directly tied to, I mean yeah, it's a number, but it's also related to like, what the liquidity is for that token on any given exchange. Uh, yeah, for sure. Uh, the underlying protocol is, is pretty important. Um, uh, how much t v l it has and, and what kind of emissions it's getting or swaps. Uh, so obviously the, the better that the underlying protocol does, um, the, the better our vaults are gonna perform since people are taking leverage on them. Awesome. I have, I have a real quick question for Pango. Given this weird unis swap Chinese fork, are you guys concerned about about a CCP fork of Pango? I mean, uh, not at the moment, but you never know. Are you talking I haven't been fully tuned in, but I saw Hayden comment on it the other day. Yeah, yeah, that one. Yeah, I mean, we're, you know, everything's pretty open sourced and we actually have to go to components.tangling.exchange. It's extremely easy to fork everything we have. So, uh, you know, very possible. But, uh, no press is bad press or all press is good. Press whatever the saying. Yes, we'll take it. All right folks. We're coming up around that hour mark here. I'm gonna start opening things up for closing remarks. We're gonna start with our friend Kevin, you got any closing remarks for the people out there? Uh, yeah. Come check us out. Uh, check out our paid steady five.com. Um, yeah, we're doing the lending Li lending Liquidity Bootstrap, and also for our vaults are incentivized. So please, uh, check us out, join our Discord. Uh, if you have any questions about our vaults, check out our documentation as well. Uh, we'd be excited to onboard more people to our community. Um, and yeah, we got some exciting things coming up. Delta Neutral glp, uh, some built on, uh, more perp dexus, like level finance, tri crypto vaults, uh, liquid staking as well. Um, and then also on some concentrated liquidity hopefully in the near future. Very, very excited for all those innovations, my friends, especially concentrated liquidity. That's gonna be fire. Um, now for sure. Gotta open it up for my friend Eric. Yeah, man. Appreciate y'all having us on. Uh, for anybody who's not following, give us a follow, we'll have some exciting things coming up in the next month or two. More governance votes. Elixir will be launching, um, so check that out. Maybe a little bit of alpha, but, uh, will be, there should be a governance vote coming up soon for implement, implementing a new single-sided staking feature that we've implemented on some of the other chains we've launched on, but haven't brought to avalanche yet, which will be really cool. Um, we're excited for, and it'll make governance a little bit easier along with all the moves we're making to, you know, allow people to take more part in, in our decentralized governance votes. So, yeah, appreciate it. Uh, thanks guys. Hey, no problem at all. Really, really appreciate both of y'all for coming on today. Gonna open the floor up for Nathan over at Landslide. Man. You got anything that you'd like to promote? Any extra, extra little tidbits for the people? Uh, no ha we're, we're, we're still developing our I b c like client. We're, we're open to talking to anyone who wants to, to chat. Our dms are open. We're also like in the future building, you know, entertain staking from I B C validators into Avalanche, which will be super interesting, which kind of fits the L s D meme of the liquid staking derivatives. But, uh, when interchange, like when I I B C starts talking, Um, other validators will, will start listening. So that will be interesting. Very excited for us to connect with, uh, with the zones people like, I mean, that's, that's absolutely huge. We talk about this, we've been talking about this pretty much every single week, um, since we started Ava Ecosystem space in like September. And yeah, man, it's, it's, it's coming up quick and, uh, very, very excited for your product that you're building. Nathan, um, Alex, uh, what you about to say, Nathan? I bet, yeah, yeah. We're, we're spinning up our Grover pool node and, uh, as we speak, and, and happy, happy to join the pool. Let's go, man. Appreciate you for that love right there, my friend. And welcome to the Go-Go Pool community. Also, Alex, you got any closing thoughts for the people, my friend? Anything that you would like to share? Uh, yeah. Well, first of all, it's a pool party. Uh, secondly, um, it's, it's an exciting day. Today. Today in the next, you know, 30, 30 minutes to an hour, we, we are announcing that our I F O, um, our initial farm opportunities go in live on arbitrary, uh, starting Tuesday. Uh, meaning like if you come provide liquidity on Trader Joe. Um, you can farm the s v y token, enter an exit at any time. Um, obviously first people to come are incentivized more, but, um, it's, uh, it's a cool way for us to, uh, start to get our liquidity for the savvy protocol to start to get some, um, for people to actually be able to, to, to use in, for us to build on cool things like, like steadi and arbitrary, and then eventually, uh, go back to arbitrary and build on dope things like, uh, like G G P. So it, it's an exciting day for us. Um, and, and, uh, and, and I'll, and I'll make sure to reach out to you guys and let let you all know about it. But, um, thanks for all the support and, and yeah, back to you Gigi, uh, back to you Brey. And also a special shout out to Nathan's wife, who I guess called, um, Brey old earlier and no one caught it. Um, so I appreciate that. Bre, you're on mute. But, uh, if, if you need us to deliver the end conclusion, let us know. I'm, I was on mute. Yes, sir. All right, man. Oh, goodness gracious. I was talk, I was fully talking too, man. I was getting hyped. Um, so the I f O is today, Alex, you said? Um, we're announcing it today or like the announcing it today and then it'll actually like this, the start date will be on Tuesday. Gotcha. Okay. Announcing today, start date on Tuesday. How long is the I f o gonna run for? It's gonna run about four to six weeks until we have our tge, our our token generation event. Um, and as soon as that starts then, then the I f O kind of boots will stop. But the continued liquidity mining will, will always be there. Awesome. You know what? We actually got, uh, somebody requesting to pop up. We got Dexter here. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go ahead and let'em pop up, man. Gonna see what you got here. What's up Dexter? Oh, Dexter's gone. Short, short-lived speech. I don't know if that's happening, but Nah, he fully connected and then he, he dipped out, but Right. Appreciate you for popping on for that. Quick second Dexter, um, on the Google pool side of things, you know, we're out here. You know, as always, we're out here building and we're building things that I can't talk about yet. But the moment that I can start talking about them, I will start talking about them and they will be very, very huge. If you don't know what Google pool is, permissionless liquid staking protocol specific vision of expanding the subnet economy and we help subnets launch at half. Cost baby. And we've also created an entirely new industry for node operators slash validators, um, looking to receive more, uh, rewards, uh, at low risk through infrastructure. It's, it's, it's actually pretty cool actually, that there's this new industry built, uh, forming now where you can earn yield, not just off of Def Defi protocols, but through infrastructure, through validating subnets and the G G P token. So, yeah, it's, uh, yeah. Thing things, things are gonna, things are gonna be really, really nice. Really, really nice. I'm very excited about like what we're building and everything. All right, folks. That's all we got for today. I'm gonna go ahead and close this thing off. I'm gonna say my usual statement, which is we do this weekly every Wednesday at 3:00 PM e s t except for this Wednesday because we love Pangolin and we love study five and we had to go on ahead, get'em up, get'em on up here, for sure, for sure. Um, but next week's will be Wednesday at 3:00 PM e s t. Make sure you slide on now to that one. We have Arrow Market coming through, so we're gonna be talking to them and let me see, what's my other thing? Oh, my little, my sign off. What's my sign off guys, you don't have to go home, but you gotta get up on outta here y'all. Peace.