That's Me! Unlocking Happiness: Insights from Angela Spence and Nysha Givans.

Part of the That's Me! project mini series.

Unlock the secrets to a happier life in our latest episode of the D.I.I.verse podcast! Join hosts Kerensa Hodge and Julian Gwinnett as they sit down with Angela Spence, chair of the university's board of governors and Nysha Givans, an EdD research student. Discover the essence of happiness and self-care through inspiring stories and practical advice. Kerensa shares her impactful work with the 'That's Me!' Project, while Nysha discusses her compelling comic strip, "Don't Touch My Hair," which addresses discrimination in education. Angela offers a heartfelt glimpse into her journey to becoming chair of the board of governors.

We'll explore the fundamental building blocks of happiness and well-being, drawing on Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the balance between physical necessities and mental wellness. Angela reveals her daily practices of gratitude and emotional check-ins, and we delve into the difference between happiness and contentment. Is happiness a prerequisite for achieving goals, or is it a result of achieving them? Join us as we navigate these profound questions and provide insights into fostering a balanced, fulfilling life.

Finally, we'll shift our focus to the role of institutions in promoting individual happiness and achievement. From Angela Spence's inspiring foundation supporting underrepresented individuals to practical tips for managing work-life balance, we emphasise the importance of representation, safe spaces, and self-reflection. Celebrate the transformative power of diversity and the mission to make first-time achievements commonplace. This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom and inspiration, perfect for anyone eager to understand and cultivate happiness in their lives.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

We are recording this podcast at the home of Wolverhampton University's Multimedia Journalism degree in the Alan Turing building on City Campus. The radio studio we are sitting in is kitted out to the same standards as places like BBC Radio 4 and 5 Live. It was installed alongside two studios as part of the new Wolverhampton Screen School. If you want to pop in for a guided tour, to discuss booking the studios or to chat about the journalism undergraduate degree, just email the course leader, gareth Owen. His address is gowen3 at wlvacuk.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Hello and welcome to our latest episode of the Diverse Hub podcast. Today, we're going to be talking about happiness. What exactly is it, what makes us happy and how can all of us become happier? To discuss these and many other questions, I'm delighted to be joined in the studio by Angela Spence, who's currently the chair of the university's board of governors, nisha Givens, an EDD research student, and my amazing co-host, corenza Hodge, who needs absolutely no introduction. However, on this one occasion, corenza, please can you introduce yourself?

Speaker 3: 1:34

Most definitely. Thank you, julian. I mean you know that whenever we're in a room together, it's almost like magic happens. I'm excited to find out what's going to happen today. But yes, my name's Corenza. A lot of people probably remembered our earlier working podcast and at that time I was working for the Student Union still working in the partnership of the Student Union.

Speaker 3: 1:54

But now I'm working for a wonderful project called the that's Me Project to support global health. Majority students either get into the PhD or while they're doing their PhD. We want to find fantastic ways to make sure that we really promote and put a spotlight on our researchers. So this is some of the one of the first podcasts that I'm doing at the moment with wonderful people in this room. At the moment that we're hoping that the that's Me project will really get the profile it needs in the university. I'll hand it over to the wonderful ladies on to my right at the moment. I'll hand it over to Nisha. He's wearing some beautiful lipstick. I'm loving that colour girl. It's popping man. So, if you can, nisha, would you like to introduce?

Speaker 4: 2:36

yourself. Hi, I'm Nisha and I'm on the professional doctorate in education, based at Walsall. I'm also currently on a conference tour and I've been going out with delivering my research. So last week I was in Leeds, then I went to New York, then I went to Scotland and tomorrow I'm taking part in a conference in York and then going down to London conference in York and then going down to London. I'm also a student co-creator on. That's Me, and I'm just here to have a conversation and hopefully learn some new stuff.

Speaker 3: 3:12

Thank you, angela so much. But before you start, angela, thank you so much. I know that you've not really really sold yourself, because you know, later on we could start talking about. You know, some of the tall things you are currently talking about, about the idea of don't touch my hair. I've just loved that notion, so maybe you're able to sneakily bring that in and let the audience hear what you're doing in that regards, because I think that's quite important, okay?

Speaker 4: 3:37

so, um, basically what happened was, um, I decided, um, to do an artifact, which ended up being a comic strip, but I wasn't actually paying attention to what I was being told to do and I just did whatever I wanted to do. And I devised this presentation called Don't Touch my Hair, and it discusses the discrimination that black and mixed heritage people face predominantly in education and the idea of professionalism and identity. So tomorrow I will be attending an anti-racism working group where I'll be discussing that, and then later on I'm going down to the royal central college for speech and drama at the university of london to deliver a workshop called don't touch my hair and it's sold out.

Speaker 3: 4:23

Oh, and that's why she's research for the year. So I will also then pass you over to our chair, our very own chair, that if I could, I'd probably wear a t-shirt to make sure the whole university knows you know who's in position, because I think it's one of the most important aspects of our diversity, kind of a movement, um. But also we we've had the pleasure to meet before and I remember you came along on the panel and I was flustering and you said to me self-care, carenza, you know the concept of self-care, so I'm hoping later on in the conversation we'll be discussing that principle of how we can, you know, talk about the concept of happiness and the idea of self-care. But I'm going to hand it over to you to be able to just maybe give a mini instruction to yourself.

Speaker 5: 5:10

Hello listeners, my name is Angela. As Karenza said, I am the current chair of the board of governors at the University of Wolverhampton. I live in Wolverhampton, I was born in Wolverhampton. I have Wolverhampton. I was born in Wolverhampton. I have Wolverhampton running through me like a stick of rock.

Speaker 5: 5:27

I am a mother of two daughters and grandmother to two granddaughters all absolutely phenomenal people in their own right decided to try my luck with the University of Wolverhampton in a board position in 2017.

Speaker 5: 5:55

And actually it was a bit of a default position, really, because I wanted to get on the board of governors at the Royal Wolverhampton Hospital Trust of governors at the Royal Wolverhampton Hospital Trust, which is where I was born, and had had a particularly protracted complaint that I thought if I sat on the board, I'd be able to bring matters to their attention.

Speaker 5: 6:17

Circumventing a very long story, the chair at the time, who I knew in another setting, did not want me on the board, which is why the University of Wolverhampton ended up having me. And just on the point that Nisha raised about hair you can't see me, but I wear my hair in locks and have done so since 1999, and it was a political decision to grow my locks, which we may come to in the discussion Self-care. I was doing it before it even had a name, and the thing I would always say to people in relation to self-care it is not selfish. It is selfless because if you don't take care of yourself, you have no energy to take care of those who need your assistance. And I'll park it there.

Speaker 3: 7:15

Brilliant and also who often gets neglected in these podcasts. Julian, would you like to introduce yourself as well, please?

Speaker 2: 7:26

ask julian, would you like to introduce yourself as well, please? Oh, thank you so much for putting me on the chair, um, metaphorically and actually physically. It's wonderful chat I'm sitting in at the moment. I don't really know how to introduce myself, um, because, first of all, I'm an autistic person. This is one of the most difficult questions you can ask an autistic person.

Speaker 3: 7:42

Um, in turn, I can say that I'm one of uh three co-chairs, the university's disabled staff network here at the university of wolverhampton, and I have the great pleasure of actually doing many podcasts with you, corinza yep, we're looking at the idea of happiness in the context of self-care and, you know, I would like to really kind of do a disclaimer as a student who has been here for quite a few years and having to navigate that concept of how do I remain happy and do studies as well, and also coming from the point of inclusion, where I'm looking at the idea of the that's Me project and many of our global health students having to come to terms with also, you know, pursuing an academic or academia, a career of academia, where we're not reflected and our faces are not reflected like put a point towards some of the key works that I've that's have inspired me, and one of them is by France Fannin, who speaks about the black skin white mask, and also the idea of the poem by Maya Angelou, who also does a poem called the Mask, and if I just read a few lines from Maya's spoken words, I think you'd be able to understand some of the things that I was grappling with in the context of remaining happy in I'll be honest, julian a British system that I didn't feel recognised, and looking at the idea of how the university would be able to support me, both psychosocially and being able to help me to be able to identify with myself as a student.

Speaker 3: 9:27

So I begin. She says we wear the mask that grins and lies. It shades our cheeks and hides our eyes. This debt we pay to human guilt with torn and bleeding hearts. We smile and mouth the myriad subtleties. Excuse me my lisp, but it really spoke to the idea that most of us, we could be in this room right now. Julian coins as the first principles of happiness and how we can then, you know, share that concept to be able to support our university population.

Speaker 4: 10:16

For me, happiness is having my health, my friends and family. I think that's for me, that's my foundation. Without those, I'm not going to be able to persist. Um, I was raised by formidable women, a lot of strong black women who are also jamaican, and you know, they showed me how to carry myself, and also, I also saw that they did a lot of neglect to themselves. So the one thing that I said that as I was getting older is I, with all due respect, I don't want to go down that route, um, and like angela says, um, it's not selfish, it's it's selfless. You have to care for yourself, because how can you help anyone else if you're not in a position to help yourself? So, going back to it, happiness for me, like I said, it's all based around the people, my community, that that plays a big part for me brilliant and, angela, would you like to respond to that as well?

Speaker 5: 11:17

um, I concur with the health, friends and family. Um, but I would extend it by saying for me, it's control over my time, how I use my time, um, who I spend my time with. Um, it's a measure of satisfaction with life. Um, how much positive and negative emotion exists um, and also a sense of meaning. I mean, I do a lot of my paid work now well, all of my paid work exclusively in schools and working with children and young people to build their resilience. And happiness is a notion that we explore, and when you use that, people often think you've got to be ecstatic, you've got to be guffawing, you've got to be laughing all the time. Well, actually, for me, happiness is about contentment with life. Right, so I've got my health, which is my wealth. Everything comes after that, um, I think in um society currently, there is a lot made of happiness, and one way to certainly be unhappy is to compare yourself with others. That is a surefire way to failure, to mental ill health and all of the negative aspects of life. So, for me, I'm happy.

Speaker 5: 12:51

You might not be able to tell, but I am, I'm actually delighted with my life. I think um, I've got it nailed can I just jump back in?

Speaker 4: 13:04

Angela did bring up a really important point and the one thing I do say to my friends and family is protect your energy, because I think sometimes, like you said, we allow people in that can just draw you out and draw you down. So I think protecting your energy is really really an important part of happiness and I love the whole point of contentment. I think that's yeah for me, whole point of contentment. I think that's yeah for me as well. Contentment being in a position where you just you can be still and just take on board what's going on. I'm like a reflective practitioner, so part of being teach, like being a teacher and whatever it's kind of embedded in you, but I love the reflection part of it.

Speaker 3: 13:43

I think that's really interesting and I'm going to go a bit deeper in this concept and kind of like rates and stuff up, because we was looking at the idea of measuring happiness and I'm always in the idea of having the power to redefine of what a colonizer's concept within certain institutes of what happiness is, and I think the best person to probably kind of like help me to explain it, because we're just having this conversation on how do we measure and how happiness has been determined, that, even though you, both of you, speak of this idea of happiness, but because we're in the university campus, that we're having an agenda where we want students to be happy, it's almost like it's missing from the curriculum and looking at the idea of what that happiness would be, what is the fabrics of that happiness could be, what needs to be in place to make sure that this happiness is able to be extended.

Speaker 3: 14:39

I think we need to explore more of how we can protect the notion of happiness and how we source the happiness. But, julian, what do you think? What? What is it? We was discussing today wasn't?

Speaker 2: 14:49

it okay. So happiness for me is basically, it's an optimum state in which both your, your physical and your mental well-being are both equally balanced and both equally sort of like the height as the height they can be in order to actually engender a set, an overall sense of happiness in your life. Um, and by physical I mean, for instance, if you think in terms of the basic things that you actually need to survive, so, for instance, having access to clean drinking water, having shelter, having food, uh, and also being able to like, literally sort of like, um, you know, warm yourself, like, have heating in order when you, when you, when you get cold. So those were the four. I mean, there were many more we could just discuss amongst ourselves, but to my mind, those are the four principles of like measures, the absolute basic necessities.

Speaker 2: 15:41

But I think, beyond that, there's also this need to address, sort of like, our mental well-being, and I would define that as because I had just had the benefit of always going last is, you can actually write a few notes down and scroll them down. So I mean, for me, being mental well-being is being connected to the world, feeling as though you're actually present in the world around you, um, and also being part of an inclusive community, you know, a community that actually understands and respects and supports you, uh, and then, and on top of that, feeling as though you bring some value and purpose to the world around you, that your life means something, that you sort of have a positive impact, um, but, oh, you know, and all of that leads to you being able to become the best version of yourself, and that is a state in which all of the barriers, all the challenges that you might face that prevent you from actually achieving that, that state of well-being, are suddenly removed and you're able to literally, as I said, become the best version of yourself.

Speaker 3: 16:41

So I think that's really interesting, because I'm looking at what you're saying and, if I'm right, this concept of happiness is essential for our well-being.

Speaker 3: 16:51

But what I would like to throw out to everybody here in this room now is the idea of do we work to be happy or do you have to be happy? So, if I go back to yourself, angela, and you've experienced a good level of success over your career, but would you say that that's what's made you happy, or did you have to be happy with intention to in order to get the results? Otherwise, if we have a notion, is that if we're not happy this is what I'm trying to really get out is it possible to achieve the goals that we need to. And that's that, students. If we're not feeling happy, how do we then muster that concept of happiness to achieve, or do we achieve and then become happy? So I'll throw it over to you first and then I'll throw it over to both of you afterwards there's a lot in that um I know I'm sorry, I think um, I think happiness it means different things to different people.

Speaker 5: 17:50

I think that's the first thing that um we have to recognize. I think one, one model of happiness is not going to um be beneficial, because everybody approaches life having had different experiences, from different perspectives. I think the notion of basic needs being addressed before you can even begin to achieve a state of happiness is absolutely right Food, water. Maslow's theory of hierarchy Needs, yeah, up to self-actualization, I think for me, daily gratitude is really important. So in working with the young people that I have the privilege of working with, the first question in my session is how are you feeling? Because people will ask you how you are, but actually not really interested in the response.

Speaker 5: 18:57

It's almost that polite, societal um thing that we do, but I start off with asking them how they're feeling. We discuss that, so they are. I want them to identify at least three emotions. We have a conversation about that. I then go on and ask them what would make their day better. We have a conversation about that and what's gone well. And even if it's 9 30 in the morning, you know the fact that they've gone well. And even if it's 9 30 in the morning, you know the fact that they've arrived at school on time. You know they've gone to their lessons. The teacher hasn't said anything negative to them, so I think that's really, really um important.

Speaker 5: 19:37

I think I have this conversation with friends about altruism. Is there such a thing as pure altruism? I don't think there is, because I like to do things for people, supporting people, a word here, a gesture there but actually what I get from that is a sense of satisfaction. I really it makes my day to have made someone's day um, so I'm sure there's lots of academic um theory around pure altruism versus whatever the opposite of that is.

Speaker 5: 20:12

I think also, it's really important to engage in those banal encounters. Um, I'm a walker, so this is one of the things I do to maintain my physical and mental well-being is I walk?

Speaker 1: 20:28

And.

Speaker 5: 20:29

I've been walking for probably about two decades now, but in walking, I mean, it's really interesting because I encounter what I call real walkers and sometime walkers and the real walkers will always greet you with a good morning and they're on their way the sometimes walkers because it's not really the thing they do their level of engagement is virtually zero. So, for me, the notion of happiness, I think we have to be careful, because if we push, you must be happy. It's then another pressure, isn't it? Which is why I talk about contentment, which is, I think, something that is probably more achievable, it's more within people's reach. The basis of happiness, security. You know, foundations are critically important. If those foundations aren't in place, it doesn't matter what you do. So self-esteem, self-love, really, really, really important.

Speaker 3: 21:47

I would say they're the building blocks of everything that comes after that, and I'll pause there- I think that's pretty awesome what you've said, because it's if it's with the mindset that how do we kind of like in build that within our environment that we're in at the moment at the university, and how do we kind of like draw those principles into the way that we do our studies and the way that we conduct even some of the policies that we have in place within the university. But, nasha, would you like to add to that?

Speaker 4: 22:20

Yeah, from a student point of view, I was just thinking. I was making notes and I was thinking about identity and knowing who you are, and I think that comes a long way with the happiness and I think, whilst you're at university and I don't want to sound like I'm an older person trying to give out wisdom nuggets yes, please give us some more. But I do think as you get older, you do kind of become more comfortable with who you are and you know who you are. Um, I think community is very important, um, for me. I'm quite lucky.

Speaker 4: 22:53

I'm part of the faculty of education and I'm surrounded by great people, and I actually said to one of them, my lecturers. I said it's weird because I said you talk to me like I'm a doctorate student. He went well, you are. And I was like there's no hierarchy within our faculty at all. We're all treated equal and even though we haven't finished our doctorate, we're still being treated um, different, I'm sorry, treated the same. Yeah, um, and I think it's also being confident in yourself to be able to speak up and make sure you're heard, and I know not everyone feels that way, but there are ways you can do that. Obviously, you can speak to your class rep. Um, you can speak to student services, you know, but if something's not going right for you, then you need to be able to speak up, and you did say something about you need to like work to be happy and.

Speaker 4: 23:43

I once had a job that I thought was everything, and it damaged my mental health because I gave everything to this job and it literally took everything from me. I'm now in a position where I am happy and I am contented because I'm doing what I want to do, as opposed to what everyone else wants me to do. That's right, and I think it's really important and I also think for me like Angela touched on love, language and things like that for me I like connecting people.

Speaker 4: 24:10

So when I'm speaking to someone and they're saying, oh well, I'm doing this, I'm thinking who do I know that I can connect that person with, and it's that I know it's probably selfish of me, but to be selfish with me, but that sense of joy that I know that I can connect to people, or more people, to do something because it doesn't take from me by giving them that information um, and I think, also a sense of realism. Um, like angela says, you don't have to be like giddily happy, you know. You can just be content and just understanding that. You know. Okay, I know what I've got to do today, that's fine, that's fine. You don't need to think about anything other than that you don. Okay, I know what I've got to do today, that's fine, that's fine. You don't need to think about anything other than that. You don't have to be living an Instagram life or TikTok life.

Speaker 3: 24:47

Whatever works for you works for you because your success is your success and your journey is your journey, so you shouldn't be measuring it against anyone else and I think that's a really good point to kind of like pick up on, because we looked at the idea of how do you measure happiness and if, for example, within the structural kind of situation and structure that we're in with the university, um, and there's processes and outcomes that we fundamentally build the idea of what success is, and sometimes we're looking at the idea of whether happiness can be kind of lost in that concept of process and outcomes. I think you had some really interesting point about that, julian. In regards the university stays focused on the idea of how important happiness is to the achievement of students at the university and staff yeah, I mean first just to draw back on um, some interesting conversations that we've been having here.

Speaker 2: 25:55

Really, and I think what I'm getting a sense of is is that all us, I think, really are identified that happiness is something that we can't necessarily experience in isolation, even if that is being contented in a wonderful moment, embracing nature and being alone in that environment and being able to understand the wonderful world that we sometimes have the great fortune to live in. Even though we perhaps don't always take the time to actually realize this as follows, we should do but that, knowing that even when we are actually in those moments that we are connected to the world, we're connected to the world through other people and how we, you know. I suppose, going back to what you were saying earlier, angela, about we know what is altruism, I think you know. I think what you described is a brilliant example of reciprocal altruism, which is in that we all do, we all know that in somehow or other, the good that we do will come back to us in some way or other, even if it's not directly. To the people that we actually sort of like show kindness, we know, to it's sort of know. We always get back more than we, you know, than we give out in many respects.

Speaker 2: 27:06

But I think, to take back to your conversation about us as an institution, really whether I mean I think this is really about all institutions really is that focusing, I think, on outcomes more so than processes? And I think that you know, I think, especially moving forwards into the future, it's reasonable to see the world will change dramatically around us and our focus, just as the focus of a lot of institutions, is going to change in ways perhaps that we don't fully understand at the moment because it's kind of impossible to know how this will play out. But I do feel passionately that there will be more of a focus on individual achievement and that will help us to strike forces Force is a terrible word.

Speaker 2: 27:57

I mean encourage, encourage is a better word than force to sort of like think very hard and constructively about how we do that and I hope what that means is is that we focus on outcomes, we look at people from an individual standpoint and say what are your hopes, what are your aspirations, what are your dreams?

Speaker 2: 28:16

Um, now, how can we help as far as possible, to sort of like help you to live out your best life? And therefore the process would be defined in order to actually achieve that objective, rather than, I suspect, at the moment where we live in a world in which we sort of like find ourselves having to deal with the processes that exist and how to sort of like ameliorate them or make them sort of like less bad for people who find that those processes don't currently work for them I agree because, as we've discussed here, you know, the concept of happiness is it's subjective and also, but we all share the fundamental agreement that it's through kindness, it's through community, it's through being able to communicate, and it's also about the idea of offering people voices, especially if you're already feeling marginalized.

Speaker 3: 29:12

As the fundamental fabric of happiness, which I feel that you know it's big, it's quite good branches to fall to uphold, so to speak, to make sure this concept is really relayed within the student kind of environment. But moving towards solutions then, and I suppose we're looking at two different aspects, we're looking at how the, the institutes kind of like, understand the concept of happiness and taking that power back to say the happiness belongs in the voice of the community, who then defines it as an evolving term. I turn back to my guests here and my co-host sorry I shall, but I could turn back here. What tips would you give then?

Speaker 3: 29:56

If we're students? We're looking at the idea of being able to manage our work life, manage our social life, manage our education, our career paths. We both, or we all, know that at the moment. The world's kind of like a crazy place at the moment and I sometimes think that the idea of the fundamental purpose or premise of happiness gets lost. So we mentioned some of the things of what happiness is. We went back to looking at the first principles and the fabric of what happiness is. What kind of advice would you give if we was designing a promotion program within the university to promote happiness?

Speaker 5: 30:35

I just think being your authentic self, being true to yourself, being honest with yourself about what it is you really want. You know, there's this thing about past, present, future. We're in the present, remain in the present. If you spend that time looking too far forward or trapped in the past, that isn't leads to despair, doesn't it?

Speaker 4: 31:04

um, for me, um, a lot of my research focuses around marginalized groups and I think the issue that I've found through the research is that often marginalized groups are spoken about but not to. I think, as an institution, in order to, we wanted to move forward and we want to focus on the happiness. Speak to the students, not through them. Speak to the actual students, hear what they're saying, listen to them. That's one of the things that I think needs to be picked up. But also, sometimes we kind of put ourselves under a lot of pressure and we overwork ourselves but then we don't really say what's going on. So an example would be me. Um, I can give you the exact date and the exact time.

Speaker 4: 31:47

So 3 am on the 4th of june, complete meltdown. I was like I can't do my course, quite dramatic, can't do my course, I'm gonna come to an end, I can't do. And then it was like going on. And then I was getting a message from a friend. She says just breathe. And I was like no, everything's going wrong. And I started typing this email to my lecturers and stuff like that and I was just thinking you know what this could have all been avoided if you'd just spoken up at the beginning, told them what was going on, but instead they all come all to this point where everything's boiling over, you're in tears and yeah. The next morning they were like, just it's fine.

Speaker 1: 32:31

But at that moment of time.

Speaker 4: 32:32

I got myself so worked up so it's just speaking up and so, like I said I've mentioned before, reflection is quite big for me and like knowing that the next time I'm not going to go down that route.

Speaker 4: 32:44

But yeah, because no one's here really to judge you. Just be open and honest, because if they know then they can help you. And having that element of, like you say, comfortability with yourself and knowing who you are, I put like know thyself, because it's really important that you do know you and what makes you happy. So a lot of people sadly like have a lot of family pressures. They're coming to university, you know I've got to achieve, because so and so down the road their child's achieved, so I've got to achieve. So my family know, and then it puts a lot of pressure on you and then you lose that element of why you're actually here, do you?

Speaker 1: 33:18

really actually want to go down that route, or you're just doing it for other people.

Speaker 4: 33:22

One of the most important things I try and say to friends and families be kind to yourself, because sometimes this world can be so cruel, um, and you need to come back to yourself and be kind to yourself. You know you're getting up, you're doing what you're trying to do. Even if you achieve one thing, that's you've got up. That's all.

Speaker 2: 33:40

You need to worry about everything else taking steps where to begin, because there's this just, we could do an entire podcast on this question alone. Um, so I'll just scribble down some notes, because they're always useful to have just like frame the conversation so you don't forget anything. That's right. Um, for me, removing stress and anxiety as much as possible is really, really key. It's really difficult for me to feel well in any sense whatsoever if I'm feeling at all stressed or anxious.

Speaker 2: 34:06

A little bit of stress is obviously good as a motivating force. It's important to state that. But there has to be a balance and you have to be able to be aware of when it's becoming too much, and sort of like be aware of how sort of like you know your own self-preservation toolkit, to sort of like being aware of how sort of like you know your own self-preservation toolkit, to sort of like be able to sort of like address that issue, whether that's knowing what to do to take yourself out of a stressful situation. And it's an important distinction that I suppose that as human beings, we're not necessarily always good at doing this.

Speaker 2: 34:49

It's being able to distinguish between the things that we can actually change and alter in our lives and the things that we can't, and to literally just let go of the things that we can't have any control over, as it's pointless worrying about things that you can't alter or change things that you can't alter or change. But I think most important of all, as somebody who's always found this as an issue in my life personally, is is confidence, building confidence.

Speaker 2: 35:09

I think building confidence is a really, really important part of like increasing resilience and also sort of I doubt that it's at all possible to be happy if you're not feeling confident about yourself that's right.

Speaker 2: 35:23

I think that's really difficult and, I think, understanding why confidence is so so important in in your your life journey and it feeds into all of your successes you know that feeling good about yourself, feeling confident, can help to, sort of like, literally inspire you to overcome almost any challenge or barrier that exists in front of you, and I think we need to be much more focused on how we can do that individually, as people sort of like, increase our levels of self-confidence, but also, if at all possible, how institutions can be, you know, able to build confidence amongst individuals.

Speaker 3: 36:06

I totally agree, and I feel that what I'm hearing in this room is the importance of being able to tap into understanding what your concept of happiness is. But what I think is very special about when we come together, especially even when we have our conversations and you know I've had conversations individually with all three of you that you can't get on the screen. You know you can't get the same dynamics, the same um, a sharing of minds, um, we're sometimes just staying behind the screens and I feel that coming together as a community and sharing it and I return back to the idea of maya angelo's poem of the mask, where sometimes we're wearing masks and the best way to unravel that mask or take that mask off is in safe spaces, and so, therefore, even the the process of understanding what is happening to you can sometimes be really great within with other people. And that takes me back down to the idea that part of my remit, of my role as a community practitioner on the that's Me project, is being able to support sub-communities within the project and the idea that bringing people together who feel comfortable with each other as the concept of safe space. At the moment, we're running a small community of practice of women that suffer intersectional inequalities on a daily basis, and we're privileged to have andrew spence, you know, mentor a lot of our members, who's going through PhDs and going through research and feeling this idea that they want to unmask and be safe to unmask amongst other people.

Speaker 3: 37:50

So I can maybe get I'm not sure if you're actually very kind to me maybe speak, because you're one of the key people in this Andrew Spence Foundation that we're hoping to get off the ground, and also the idea that the program which is being helped along with the that's Me project is really not an idea where it's women only, black women only.

Speaker 3: 38:13

It's just the idea of using our talents to be able to be spotlighted, to be able to speak the word out there. So we can spend a couple of minutes just talking about that. But then also I'd like to go back to Angela and Julia just with some final words as well, around this concept of happiness and how we can maybe because both of your pivotal positions of working within the university how we can start this conversation within the university itself. And maybe you know what do you think in the idea of what makes the boat go faster, which is what this hub is really focused on what can make us, you know, progress to the concept of belonging and being able to really make sure that the universities go in the right directions. What would you say we could do as a community within this room to maybe spur that on?

Speaker 4: 39:05

I know it's quite a heavy question, um so in relation to the Angela Spence Foundation, I think for me, I spent a lot of time and a lot of years not knowing who I was and I wanted.

Speaker 4: 39:19

I was a people pleaser and then, like I said, something happened and I had to. I kind of shift my perspective and I've been at the university since 2014, studying on and off, and I've developed a sense of who I am. I know where I want to go um for me. I want to be able to do that for other people. I want to be able to support them and guide them. I think it should be almost like a rolling programme that you know, as the next cohort comes through, we've got people in line to support and guide and get more people into education, if that's what they want to go through. Yes, I am biased. I think everyone should do a doctorate. Yeah, everyone should do one. Just do it. That's me think everyone should do a doctorate.

Speaker 5: 40:00

Yeah, everyone should do one. Yeah, just do it, just do it um that's me.

Speaker 4: 40:02

Yeah, this is listen everyone should do it um, you know, realistically we know the statistics are out there. You know there's only 66 black professors, black female professors, in the whole of england. So there is, there is space for more people to come through. But also it's the sense of like knowing that you're doing something that could potentially make a difference. And I go back to what you always say to me. You know, if I can just help one person, that's my job done.

Speaker 3: 40:34

But that's Me's project, wants people to look at it and say that's me and I can achieve it. So I think that's really one of the guiding principles.

Speaker 4: 40:42

Yes, sorry, just jump back in, yeah, and also I think it's having people that look like you and I know people go. Oh, you know you yours needs, but seeing that and having that at a conference last week I went to and it was for working class people and as a black woman, I rarely, rarely see other black people in that space and there was, and on the panel there was a black professor from the university of pittsburgh who had similar story to mine. She was speaking and I was like hello that, that is me.

Speaker 1: 41:14

It was nice, just to have that.

Speaker 4: 41:16

and we spoke afterwards and I thought do you know? I went through school and I never had a black teacher, male or female, never had any. And I just think, when there's certain things going on or there's certain nuances, there's a lot of things that people can miss, and I think that's why representation is really important.

Speaker 5: 41:33

I think, just thinking about much of what's been said around the table here today, said um around the table here today, I think the the point about being crystal clear about things you can control and things you can't control, and focusing energy on the things that you can control. I think the thing I would say is that things are always evolving, um, so you, things are always in flux. The notion of safe spaces is absolutely critically important, because you will not unmask in a space that is not safe. That's right. There's an African proverb each one teach one, and it couldn't have greater resonance than right here in this space, starting the conversation.

Speaker 5: 42:27

What makes the boat go faster? Organizational listening and proper active listening, yeah, not superficial, oh, come and tell me and then I do nothing about it, but actually a willingness to hear what is being said, suspending judgment, um, and the absolute desire to want to make a difference. If none of those things exist, it's all just kind of very pedestrian and tick boxy. I'd just like to say in relation to the Angela Spence Foundation, humbled and honoured, that Corenza and the working group thought it was appropriate to name this foundation after me. Yeah, I'm quite emotional about it.

Speaker 4: 43:27

Can I jump back in as well?

Speaker 4: 43:29

Go for it. When Corenza explained what we were doing and she mentioned that you were going to be our figurehead, it made me smile because, like I said, representation and the fact that you're not just sitting there as a token, you're doing things, you're actively in your community because you've got this legacy and I know that through your children and grandchildren it's going to live on. But also we want to make sure that it lives on at the university so that everyone can see what you've done, the contributions you've made and the fact that you are positively encouraging us to go further. So that's what I wanted to just throw in.

Speaker 5: 44:11

I mean, I think for me and I'll conclude on this point visibility is really important. Prior to coming to sit around this table, I was doing the appraisal for the vice chancellor and just talking about the fact that I live in Wolverhampton. That's right on site in no time and actually it's just fantastic wandering around because I never go out soliciting views, but the number of people who have come to me and said I've never had the opportunity to speak to a chair, I've never engaged with a chair oh my gosh, it's fantastic to see you sitting at the top table. So that whole thing about representation, it is really important, again, that you can't beat, if you can't see it, that, the number of black students at this university who have approached and said they are so proud.

Speaker 5: 45:15

I mean it. It really is very, very, very, very humbling indeed and I didn't say at the start, but actually I'm a graduate of this university. I was at the inclusivity conference last Tuesday doing the opening address and saying to the audience gathered there that actually in becoming the chair of the University of Wolverhampton I've knocked off a few firsts. So first woman, first black person, first alumni. I actually live and work in the city so it's an honour to serve.

Speaker 2: 45:51

Thank you, julian.

Speaker 2: 45:53

I suppose the ultimate goal is to take these firsts and make them sort of like ordinary so that they become not something unusual, but something that's just like this happens all the time, so that we don't need to stop, you know, keep on revisiting the same issues over and over again.

Speaker 2: 46:11

And I think universities play a really, really important role in in doing this, because I think we sometimes forget, because obviously we, we education is our primary focus, obviously as it should be, but I feel that we sometimes underplay something that's always been really, really important in in the world around us is that universities play a really important role in shaping the world around us by being a positive influence on the rest of society.

Speaker 2: 46:38

And I think we should try and remember that as much as possible, because the conversations we have, the conversations we're having here, for instance, is a really good demonstration and a sign of precisely that. I think how broad do we want to go, corenza? Can we go really broad? Go for it. I think happiness is so, so important, and I feel that we sometimes focus on happiness is always on an individual standpoint, how individually happy we each of us are individually of us are individually, and I think we don't properly always understand that happiness is really, really important for all of us, because the alternative unhappiness leads to some of the worst outcomes you can possibly think of.

Speaker 2: 47:26

You know a lot of wars, a lot of like conflicts, a lot of generally destructive absolute behavior is a consequence of people's individual and collective unhappiness. So you know, we should always be focused on how we can actually sort of engender happiness in the broadest sense possible, to make as many, many people as possible as possible feel happy you want to do, you want to get your education, you want to get a good job.

Speaker 4: 47:53

But are you going to be happy in that job? Because a lot of people back in the day would get a job and they'd be in that job for life but they weren't actually necessarily happy because it was necessity. And I just think, potentially I don't want to go too political. You know, nhs might be sold off and things like that, health care and it it's quite scary to think about. But I think, collectively, community is where we need to remain and we need to be strong within our communities. Um, and I think that's probably a fundamental point for me.

Speaker 3: 48:26

Well, I think we've touched on. I think we could be here.

Speaker 5: 48:31

Yes, apologies, I just wanted to um, to respond to a bit of that and saying actually, um, young people today do not have the same mentality about jobs for life they're about portfolio careers, which I think is absolutely fantastic. They try something, they train for something, they go into that discipline. It doesn't make them happy, it's not what they anticipated and they leave, and I think if more people could get to that position, there would be considerably more happiness in the workplace.

Speaker 3: 49:02

That's true and I think you've made that's a really important point because I can.

Speaker 2: 49:07

I'm starting to see and I hope I'm not imagining this, but I think I can see quite an important distinction happening, like a move away from a job being solely a source of an income that allows you to actually have economic freedom and independence, towards a job that actually gives you a sense of well-being and makes you feel as though you're actually having a positive impact on the world. Is the?

Speaker 2: 49:32

number of people who actually volunteer, to actually use their free time in order to volunteer free, not getting paid, to actually do other jobs that they feel gives them a sense of value and purpose, and how you can kind of see that this is something that's hardwired into us as a species, that we do actually like generally to be sort of like give to our communities, being sort of like doing things to actually make our world function better, and how the world in the future might be a greater focus on that I think back to the point about the point that you've made with the, the ideal values.

Speaker 3: 50:05

now I'm coming from a spoken word background. Every time there's word you would kind of click our fingers. So I'm looking at the idea of values click, click. I'm looking at the idea of values click, click. I'm looking at the idea of community click, click. It's been a really interesting conversation today and I want to thank all of you guys because I think this has been. We've always said in the beginning that we like things to go into free fall and make it be natural and after a while we're just relaxing our chairs and hopefully you guys have picked up on that. Fundamentally, we believe that happiness is what makes the boat go faster and we need to start that conversation to maybe help people to unmask what happiness is and find a unique way to tap into that. So thank you so much for today and as usual, julian, you've been the best host in the world.

Speaker 1: 50:49

Thank you so much for today.

Speaker 3: 50:51

And thank you, thank you Both of you.

Speaker 5: 50:53

Okay, thank you, my last Bye.