One Right Way to Pole? - Colleen Jolly

Andrea sits down with Colleen Jolly, owner of International Pole Convention (Pole Con!), to discuss pole training styles and different approaches for different bodies. 

I am a mom who poles (aerial fitness) specializing in pole dance and fitness, acrobatic chair dance, Liquid Motion, and flexibility. This channel was created to provide a space for busy moms to find tips and tricks for balancing their busy lives, work, and family with their love for aerial arts, dance, and fitness.

Transcript

[0:01] Hello, my dears, and welcome to a very special episode of Moms Who Pole.
My name is Andrea and I am your most average mom who poles.
We have a very, very special episode today because we have a very special guest on the show.
She is a fur mom, pole mom, pole grandma, great grandma, and my original pole mom, Colleen Jolly.

[0:27] Music.

[0:48] Thanks so much for being with me today. Oh, great. Great. Shit. Okay. Yes. Thank you. I'm very happy to be here after that.
Can you see the gray hairs? Can you see this? You're a pole great grandma now because let's see, you're my pole mom. My pole babies have gone on to be instructors and then they have pole babies that you know, it's it's kids having kids now in the pole world. Wow. Yeah. You look good though. Thanks. I put on lipstick.

[1:28] Oh, yes. Well, for anyone who doesn't know who you are, which I think is very few people, but just in case, please tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Oh my gosh, I got to get this down to like my 30-second elevator pitch.
I do a lot of things in the pole community.
I've been pole dancing since 2011, yeah, since 2011. I've competed, performed, I've performed with Snoop, I'm part of that group of pole dancers.
I feel like we're a special sorority of pole dancers who pole with Snoop.
I'm a liquid motion master trainer.
I work with the Pole Co and Pole PT. I'm the body in the Pole Anatomy book for most, about 90% of the moves.
I work with 1, 2, 3 Poling.
I work with Rad Roller, the people who make the peanut.
I wrote a book, Mobility for Pole.

[2:26] And I run the IPIA, the International Poll Industry Association to help pole businesses with information relative to business. And I also run PoleCon. I've been running PollCon since 2014. I purchased the event, ran my first event in 2015. So I do quite a lot of things.
I also teach live in the DC metro area, and then also virtually on the internet to people all over of the world, including I've been to Kuwait.
I have a big following in Kuwait, which is super random, but also super duper cool.
Those folks were wonderful. And yeah, I think that's it.
Are you sure? Are you sure that's it? Because that's a lot. You may have missed something.
I may have missed something. Literally yesterday, I just did my corrective exercise specialist certification.
So I'm also a real big lifelong learner. I love learning and just picking up new skills trying to help folks, you know, figure all this shit out because life is complicated.

[3:26] Yes. So how did it start? You know, you started in 2011, you know, cut to 2023 doing all the things with Poll. Was it like a gradual process or did a light bulb click off and you're like, You know what? I'm 110% into Poll Now.
Like, how that happened. It feels like, so in my last career, my business partner, I had three business partners, and we were in an industry, was the proposal management industry, which is also really like niche, niche, however you want to pronounce that, industry.
And my business partner used to say he lost a bit, was how he wound up in this really random industry.
I sort of feel the same about whole, because like, I started, like, you take a class and And then it was like, oh, and then I didn't really love the studio that I was at.
I felt like that there were better ways to run the business because I had business experience in this other industry.
So then I had an opportunity to own my own studio.

[4:25] And so I did that briefly. And then an opportunity came up to purchase PoleCon from the original founder.
And then I did that.
And then before you know it, I'm like, shit, my whole life is PoleCon.
When did that happen? And yes, slowly, but you do wake up one morning and you're like.

[4:45] All I wear is spandex. So cool. Yes. Yes. I feel the same. I don't know why I own jeans anymore.
There's no point. Cause you never know when you might need to do a split or invert off a tree.
You know, that, that is for real. I went to visit. So my best friends who I've known since college, who thinks this is hilarious that I'm into pole dancing because nobody saw this coming at all.
Like this is not any, I'm not a physical person. I'm not into like the sexy side generally. Like I'm not really prudish. I really like clothing, not fitness. And so this transformation he finds fascinating. And I visited him. He lives in Europe a couple of times and every time I need to take a split in front of something. So I just saw him, he's currently in Amsterdam. And we've been out, you know, for dinner and see museums and whatever. And he was like, I haven't taken a picture of you doing a split, do a split now. Like, we can just have a fun time. And he was like, No, this is your thing. And I want to be supportive, do a split, like, okay.
Oh, what a sweetheart. So what do you think it was about pole then? Like, you know, you don't Like you say, you don't have a big physical background.
It just makes you feel good or it's hard. Like, what do you think it is that 13 years later or 12 years later, sorry, you're still doing it?

[6:11] I think it really was the challenge, like my first class, so I had a friend of mine who was really like, hey, let's do this. And so I was like, well, if you figure it all out, I'll go with you.

[6:22] So she did, she found a class and signed us up and we went and she was like, you have to wear shorts.
And I was like, I don't wear shorts.
I don't wear tank tops, I don't wear shorts.
I thank you very much. The more covered the better.
And PS you needed shorts and I wasn't wearing shorts.
So, but we stay. So the first class was super hard. I couldn't hold on to the pole.
I was just, everything was really, really hard. And the next class came in and people were inverting and doing butterflies. And I was like, fuck, like, are you all gymnasts?
Like, how did this happen?
And they're like, oh, a couple of months of class and they worked.
And I mean, now I know everybody's journey is different but I was like, a couple of months.
I was like, come on, let's sign up. Like, we could do this for a couple of months and we could be like those people.
And, you know, and the rest is kind of history. So I just, yeah, I just sort of, I got sold a lot.
It was gonna be a couple of months to do my butterfly.
And now here I am, you know, dancing the sexy and the, with the tank tops and things and just all in.
So with my shoes, I love these shoes.
Beautiful shoes. Yeah, yeah, I'm all in.
Yeah, I think I remember there was like a Instagram traffic between us.
Maybe it was 2018 or something and you were like looking for a costume for a performance and I had sent you links to things and they came and I'm like, what do you think?
And you're like, so much ass. So much ass is hanging out of these shorts.
I'm like, yeah, that's the point.

[7:51] I know, we have a couple of showcases at the studios I teach at locally that are kind of safe spaces that's like faux strip club and it's a safe space where they're invite only so people can have the experience of really being sensual if that's for them, you know, and that's, and that's cool. And so I've done a couple of these showcases where people will tip you and just, you know, pasties and the, you know, titties out. And I had a student asked me, she was like, how do you get to that point? And I'm like, number one, slowly, because I didn't see that coming either in the way that I like saved myself in the world.
But I'm like also at some point...

[8:29] You know, you just you only live once you keep finding gray hairs. And you're just like, you know what, bucket, like, I'm just gonna go out and have fun and move the way I want. And if people feel like throwing money at me, cool. And if they don't, cool, like, I'm still gonna have a great time. And my titties are sparkly. So there you go. Yes, enjoy. We only get one go around in life. I mean, that we remember anyway, unless we do a lot of that, like deep trance stuff.
So like, why not enjoy it? I remember when I first met you, I think you're the more advanced teacher and I was still trying to figure out how to get my toes off the ground. But there was a showcase coming up and you're like, oh yeah, you should perform. I'm like, oh no, this is my private journey. Now I'm a total stage whore. But at the time I'm like, no, no, this is a private journey.
But what you said really stuck with me. And you said, well, because my husband's in military, He said, well, now wherever you move, you'll have your own community, because he has his community when you move, and now you'll have your community.
And that stuck in my brain, and that turned into, I think I'm going to perform.
And oh, I think I'm going to perform and try to get my feet off the ground.

[9:44] And it snowballed into, now you're a pole great-grandma. So we went from pole mom to pole great-grandma, just in my lineage.
Knows with those other children, those other pool babies you work with.

[10:01] One of the things, yeah. We need to do like a genealogy map.
That would be cool. You can be Eve.
I remember, too, when I was at the same studio as you locally, one of the things that I noticed about you was you would take like progress pictures of your needle scale.
And you had made a couple mentions in class about how your shoulder blades were like extra special, but not in a way that sounded super positive.
But to me, I couldn't see why not, because you could do all this cool stuff.
And I remember being very inspired by your needle scale progress, and also that you kind of put out there that you had this motorcycle accident.
Was it a motorcycle accident? It was, right?
And your ankle has like all of this scar tissue on it. And I thought, wow, that's so relatable because here's all these things that she can do, yet she has these things that are permanent.
They're permanent. And, and she's doing it. So like, even though I've had a kid, and I'm like, old, you know, because I don't know what the hell I was thinking at like 32. Sure. I'm old at 32. Holy, I do. But like, she can do it, then like me and my my mom, but and my old ass, like I can do it too. But I.

[11:20] Really appreciate that. But I didn't know if you didn't mind sharing a little bit about your mobility journey and kind of how that turned into this book, Mobility for Paul?

[11:32] Yeah, absolutely. So for folks on the podcast, I'm sorry, you don't get to see the fun scars. But this is my leg. I'm really pale. So you don't always get the greatest like definition in the lighting. But so a truck hit me. So I bought a motorcycle to get back and forth to my job because I was in college, I needed to pay for college. And I made a left-hand turn when I shouldn't. And a truck t-boned me. And on a motorcycle, the kind of furthest thing out is the leg. So they hit me in my right leg, shattered my leg. So the doctors first were going to amputate. And then they were like, oh, we'll call in a specialist. So I had one halo kind of thing. It's like a, it's like a metal structure that holds the leg in place. And then, they called in a different specialist, he took that out, put a new one in. And they were like, we'll see what happens. So I had five surgeries.
That were different bone grafts, skin grafts, trying to get everything back together. And that was 2001. And they were very honest with me. They were like, you're lucky if you keep your leg, like it could still be amputated. And I've had some friends who've had similar issues, not motorcycle accidents, but similar issues where it had wound up making the most sense for them to amputate. And I'm still not sure, like if I were to go back in time and know what but when I know now maybe amputation would have been easier in some ways for me, I don't know.

[12:59] But anyway, so I started on this journey to like rehab myself because money was tight.
I didn't really have insurance. So I just had to like figure out how to walk again, which was tough.
And then fast forward, I took this poll class about 10 years, I guess 10 years or so after my accident.
And I started realizing just how much the issues in my leg impacted the whole kinetic chain.
So that was a big light bulb moment. And at that time, and even now, like pole is kind of the wild west in terms of what knowledge people have.
You know, a lot of that knowledge comes from our own experience.
So if our body works, you know, quote figures factory standard, then it's very easy to say, put your right hand over your left hand, grab your leg, bend your knee.
But if your body doesn't, or you have different compensations from something like a serious acute injury or something chronic like sitting hunched over a desk all day or children.
Children, fuck up your hips. You hold a baby on one hip for too long.
I know you know what I'm talking about. Oh yeah.

[14:04] You know, you have challenges in your body that maybe you're not every pole teacher knows how to help. So I wound up going on this journey to figure out like why my body didn't like quote, unquote work right. And I took all these different workshops with folks and was looking at different physical therapy and just constantly researching and researching and researching to try to fix my own shit so that I could progress in pole in a way that I wanted to. And that led me to helping other folks because I'd see that people would have some similar issues because I worked at a desk, you know, for like 20 years, just, you know, 12 hours a day. And that impacts things too.

[14:45] And so I saw people with a lot of similar issues and I just developed over time my own understanding, got more education. And eventually I started running these mobility classes. And I had a student who was, who said like, I would, I just talk classes and I try to explain what muscles we're using or why we're doing this and you know, things to look out for. So people could go and then Google because not everything is applicable to folks. But if you're like, oh, we were working on hamstrings and she said this, maybe this is something I want to look into. And, uh, and my student was like, you should really write a book. And I was like, you're right. I should really read a book. So I did. Nice. The end. I'm one of those people that just does shit, which I have a lot of like neurodivergent students and colleagues and stuff in the industry who have like ADD and they've been very honest about their struggles. And they're like, other brains don't work that And I'm like, mine does, I just do things, so.

[15:43] Yes. I mean, I have a copy of the book. I really like it. I think one of the things that I appreciated most about the book is oftentimes when you get a book like this that's like conditioning for figure skaters, conditioning for pole, or any kind of fitness type book, there's different models. One's going to be the dysfunctional model, and then the other one's going to be like, this is how it should be. And in your book, you are the model and you don't necessarily, at least the ones that I've resonated with the most, it's not like you're saying, this is bad, this is good. It's, this is how my body is. It's not necessarily like right or wrong.
It's just, I have to be aware of what it is. And if you want to do X, Y, Z, you're going to need to do something like this to address it. And I liked this. There is no like before and after good or bad in the book. It's it's the existence of our bodies as they are, which is imperfect.

[16:51] Awesome. You should write that down. It's like put on my website.

[16:55] I know, right? Whenever you're tight, I'm always I say this stuff, then I go to type it out. And And then I'm like, therefore, hereto after, I'm like, fuck, what did I say earlier?
But I did appreciate that. And I do appreciate that about a lot of the content you put on social media is everything's kind of a work in progress.
And your body is your body. Treat it with respect.
You're not going to get necessarily a factory standard body.
The thing that kills me the most is, yes, of course, train both sides.
Of course, train both sides.
But the idea that your leg hooks are going to be symmetrical on both sides or that they're gonna feel the same on both sides is ridiculous.
You know, you wanna train both sides to prevent overuse and injury.
You wanna train both sides so that you don't accidentally choreograph yourself into a corner.
But to beat yourself up for it not being perfect on both sides.
I'm like, but I have one breast that's bigger than the other.
How can I expect my body to behave the exact same doing a trick on either side?
So I.
I appreciate that about your content, that it's like it's always a work in progress.
This is me. It might be different for you.
And I appreciate that about your book as well. It's just helping everyone to feel better.

[18:22] Yay, that's the goal. I'm glad it's coming through, because sometimes, like, is it text is, we were talking before we started officially that it is hard to read something and get the intended vibe, you know, not to say that the interpreted vibe is, again, wrong, but there's an intended vibe.
And that is my goal, is that there's, there is just to give people information that, you know, if, like in the kind of posture community, there's a lot of folks who talk about posture now.
There is no good posture or bad posture, quote figures. If you are in pain, maybe you should make a change.
And then especially with pole or the really like extreme contortion stuff, if your alignment is off, it's going to be more challenging to do something.
So it kind of behooves you to understand this, but is it right or wrong?
No, it's not right or wrong. It's just what you intended and what happened.

[19:16] Right, and I think we see this, this happens with everyone, But I'm speaking as a mom, and I think there are a lot of moms out there that would agree with me that we're constantly bombarded as moms or parents about the right way to do things.
And like, do this so your children will be healthy. Oh, these are the top 10 things that parents who have successful children did, and you're like, I better do that, because that's the right way to do things.
Even with the doublespeak of, oh, there's no manual for raising children, right?
So we take all this baggage of like, I've got to do things right, and we take it into the pole studio.
I must do things right.
And that's one of the things that I saw on your Instagram not too long ago, where you said, that there is no one right way to pole dance.

[20:08] And I kind of want to unpack that a little bit. Maybe you put a lot in that post. That was the short version. There was a lot more in the caption. But my favorite was, and I don't know if this was the tone you intended, but you said that there's no one right way to pull an instant if you think that way. I heard the Star Wars quote, it's a trap. Yeah, basically.
Yeah, it's totally like, and I use like in the post, I was like sharing how I've been around a lot of like poll stars and stuff and, and just watching the different ways that people interact and the different ways that people eat and the different ways that.

[20:47] People train and the different ways, you know, and they're all having outcomes where they're doing extremely cool shit, but how they're getting there is, is different.
And even like they're extremely cool shit is different from somebody else's.
So one time I was, when I owned my studio, I'm not going to name a pollster, but let's just say this pollster is really famous for Fongys.
And so they usually get people asking for Fongys. And so this person came in for the private and I was checking them in and like in the room.
And so, so this pollster was like, okay, so you want to work on like Fongys or some shit or whatever.
And the person asked for some random ass other move. And the pollster was like, all right, like, I guess like, so, you know, so you also have to look at when people are putting stuff online or they're teaching, like you're putting your best foot forward, you know, and so like Jenny, Jenny Janover, you know, we both know fairly well, she's very honest about her, her anterior pelvic tilt creates some beautiful shapes.

[21:46] And it makes it really challenging for her to do things like hand springs and handstands because you need a posterior pelvic tilt. So I told her the other day, I was like, your, your superpower is also like your Achilles heel, you know, and we all have that. So when you're looking at somebody's social media or something, you're seeing their highlight reel of the things that totally work for them. And just because it works for them, it doesn't mean that it's going to work for you.
And that's okay, because you're doing something else that's awesome and amazing. And you're You're getting there in a different direction or in a different timeline and that's cool.

[22:25] Well, what do we do, though, when you get like a brand new, you know, baby polar into the studio, and, you know, they saw someone do a butterfly, right? And no movement background. They're like, I want to do that. I want to do that in the next couple months. And, you know, they're in class all the time and they're getting frustrated. You know, how do you deliver that message to to them that their journey might look different than someone else's?
Yeah, I have a new baby polar. I have a couple of new ones.
A whole bunch of people started during the pandemic and I've had a whole crop of new folks.
And I keep having to repeat, you are brand new. You started six months ago.
You started two weeks ago.
Take your time. Nobody, that doesn't resonate at all. People are like, yeah, whatever, bitch.
But the big thing I try to communicate is to actually develop that communication with your body, and point out things where I'm like, okay, let's try different stuff because different stuff works for different people.
So I'm like, okay, I'm watching you attempt to do an outside leg hang.

[23:30] People who are like, I have this rock climber who's like big guy comes with like tons of muscles.
So immediately you could do a shoulder belt, but I'm like, okay, outside leg hang, you're not in your knee pit. I can see the daylight.

[23:43] Do not let go of your hands, you will die. So I'm like, let's work on developing that feeling of that wrapping around the knee.
You know, just work on the feeling, just work on the feeling. He's like, it hurts.
Okay, but let's understand hurt. Is this hurt like sharp, shooting, stabbing pain, something's not on the right spot, or is this hurt like discomfort?
And trying to get people to pay attention to sensations, number one, in the body, make that brain-body connection, which for me, super hard.
And then number two, if that doesn't work, video yourself so that you can look and see like, aha, she was saying this and I couldn't see it in that moment because I was trying desperately not to die.
But now I can look on the video and say, in that moment, this is what happened, maybe attach what I was feeling.
So that's the big thing that I've been trying because the time thing, nobody gives a shit.
They're like, fast forward me.
But to help them make that connection, because it's like, if you can make this connection, then you can start to figure out what your body needs. And then we can figure out how I can help.
You know, what it like, was that hard? Was that painful? Like, where do we go from here so that I can give you those tips or those conditioning or those mobility exercises, whatever, or a different entry to help you achieve your goals.

[25:01] Well, and I think that's interesting. I know after I had my son, you and I worked together.

[25:08] We did a lot of private sessions where I was kind of coming back. It's not like I was super advanced before I had my son. But the little that I had, I did not have as I was recovering from postpartum.
And there was a lot of that mind-body connection that was having to be be rebuilt. And it was incredibly challenging. And I remember like, turning to you kind of like looking for just just tell me like what to do the right advice. And you're like, it's, different for every person. We just we have to try things and see what's going to work for you. I mean, there's general things that work for people. But everybody is so unique and so specific that there really is no secret to the universe, I mean, except thoracic mobility, you know, that cures cancer apparently.
I was just ranting about that in class earlier. I was like, thoracic rotation. Okay.
I mean, that certainly helps.

[26:07] There's some things that generally help, but that mind-body connection, it is so hard.
And that knowing that different cues work for different folks, I think is the biggest thing.
And I always encourage, And I know there's a financial consideration.
Like when you're a pole instructor, you don't want somebody to go to another circle because you're like, no, I want you to be my baby and give me the money because I have bills, which I understand.
And that's why I have the IPIA because that is a whole separate can of chickens or whatever.
But I'm always like, go to different instructors because different people will say different things in different ways. I work with three different contortionists and they are very contortion teachers that are giving me very different things in very different ways.

[26:53] And I take the pieces that make sense for me and some of them I have to translate.
Like I have one person who's very based on analogies. All her cues are about analogies.
And sometimes her analogies are like backwards. So I have to actually like, in my mind, like translate the analogy and then apply, like, for me, my body parts are very good at, like, I like names, like naming things.
So once I learned all the muscles, I was like, aha, you are my rectus femoris, and you are my bicep femoris. So I can like, for me, what works is I'm like, all right, bicep femoris, you're going to do this. people are like.
Straighten your name, you know? So I translate her cues into my body and I'm like, aha. But like, you have to try different things because different stuff works for different folks.

[27:49] I wish there was a right answer because if there was just like, wake up every morning and drink beet juice, like motherfucker, I would be drinking beet juice. Like there was no tomorrow. There's no right way to do anything. Well, and then I think Paul would be so boring because there'd be no diversity because everybody wants to do it the right way, right? And sometimes there's beauty in the mistakes. Sometimes there's beauty in the variations. And I mean, that's why that scene in A Wrinkle in Time is so scary when all the children are bouncing the balls at the same time on the driveway and all the moms come out at the same time. I mean, that was a really scary scene. I remember reading it as a child being freaked out and the movie did it justice.
That's the beauty of pole. It's a very diverse, multifaceted sport.
I'm calling it a sport.
You call it a lifestyle, whatever. It's a very diverse, multifaceted sport.
There's artistry, there's strength, flexibility, and it's very addicting.

[28:54] I think I've said this before, but I think it attracts a certain type of personality.
We're all different, but a touch psycho, you know?
And we get addicted to it, and we want to do all the things.
And whether all the things is like all the flexy things or all the power tricks or all the most embodied, flowy kind of movement, we're going to go after that.
And if someone gives us a path, we will follow that path.

[29:25] So restructuring that perspective of, OK, I'm an adult. Elsewhere in my life, I think critically, right?
Like, is this yogurt with an extra 20 grams of sugar going to be good for my child who behaves poorly after having a lot of sugar?
Or should I switch to the Greek yogurt that has less grams of sugar in it?
And I'm not saying anyone shouldn't give their kids a certain kind of yogurt.
But you think critically when it's your child, right? And you want to do the right thing.
And you read all the parenting magazines and you want to do right, but there's that voice in your head that goes, wait a minute, this hasn't worked for my child.
But we don't give our bodies the same kind of like thinking critically when we're in our pole class.
We're like, I just want my splits rather than, I don't know that straightening my leg is really working to get my front splits.
Like in fact, I feel a weird pain behind my knee. Maybe I'm not engaging my leg the way I should be, right?
Like we don't think that way about ourselves. Over time, maybe it happens.
I know it took a lot of time for me, but I certainly didn't like walk into the pole studio going, I think I'm going to think critically about these cues I'm being given.
I'm like, nope, I'm going to hold on to the pole. I'm going to breathe in.
And when I exhale, I'm going to kick my feet in the air, one, two, for that fan kick.
And everything goes to black. I have no idea what happened when my feet left the ground, but I am now on the other side of the pole. So I think job well done. You.

[30:51] You know, that is a really great analogy, because I think you're right, like people come into the pole studio and there's an offloading of being an adult, which is not a bad thing because everybody has really adulty lives and you go into the pole studio and you're like for the next hour, you person in front of the room, you're in charge.
I don't have to make a decision. And as someone who is often the most adulty person in the room, I will be in like places is that I really do not look like I belong.
And people come up to me and they're like, could you give me directions to the blah, blah, blah?
And I'm like, I just always look like I know where I'm going and that I know what I'm doing.
So I feel like I'm always the adult.
And I do think people offload all that. And that's cool because you wanna take a break.
But at the same time, if you're not thinking critically or making that connection, and then also being given, oh God, there's a lot of passive verbs here.
Like if you are a poll teacher, sometimes you really need to give people the permission to ask a question because people, there's something about that being the leader of something where people just fall in line, you know, and they don't stop and say.

[32:03] I have a pain in my shoulder when I do that, or is that supposed to happen?
And I'm constantly verbally giving people permission.
Hey, if you don't wanna do this, don't do this. If this hurts your knees, put on some knee pads.
If you don't wanna get on the floor, don't get on the floor.
If you're tired, just watch if you have a pain. And I'll watch like new people make the pain face and I'm immediately over there like, yeah, right, I saw you make the pain face.
And then they're like, oh yeah, well this, and I'm like, oh, this is a great way for us to communicate about what are you feeling? How is this happening?
Let's talk about maybe a different option for your body that might work better.
But I've found that adults.

[32:45] Just don't, they're very quiet. Like I used to do a lot of like, I mean, I still have an in-person stretch class, but I used to have, they used to be like 30, 30 people and people were so quiet.
And then I have one person, her name is Nicole. I love Nicole. Nicole is a loud human. She's just loud. She's a Leo. She's just gotta be the center of attention. And she would be in the corner of the room and I would ask people to do lunch and you hear, like you'd hear her make these verbal noise. And you know what? It gave people the permission to make a verbal like, oh, God, this is hard. And it was great because it allowed people to recognize this as hard.
Because otherwise, they're watching me and I'm not making these grunt noises because I'm the teacher. So I'm working in a range of motion where I don't have to make the grunt noise.
Because it's not my class. I'm not getting the workout. I'm teaching the workout, which I think some teachers forget too. Another way. So anyway, I've, I've, I've, sometimes I, I, you know, have to tell people, I do have to tell people all the time, especially when Nicole is not in class. And what it's developed is I have a lot of like really sassy advanced classes because there's sometimes where they're just straight up. They're like, I ain't doing doing that today. I'm like, you know what?

[34:02] Don't. Don't. If your body and brain are not into this, like, don't. Is there something else you'd like to work on? Here's your permission to do that. And you're an advanced person, so I know that you are going to be safe, you know, not joining in with the rest of class.
I remember I took a workshop, like I was a student in a workshop with Nell. And she and I were both students in the workshop and the workshop person was asking if anyone had any injuries or is there anything they just don't want to do today, right? And no one said anything. And Nell goes, oh, you can tell that there's not a lot of advanced students or instructors in this class because if there were, they'd be like, oh, no, I'm not doing that. Nope. You know what? My shoulder doesn't feel that great today. I'm going to take a pass on XYZ." And I was relatively new to poll at the time. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, all right, whatever that means. And years later, I'm like, I get what she was saying. Yeah. Because there are some days where I'm in a class and I'm like, no, absolutely not. I value my life. I have to take care of children after this. And I can I can hear that voice in my head that says, not a good idea, it's a trap.

[35:22] It's a trap. It's a trap. Yeah, it's such a balancing act because like as a teacher, you want to encourage people to like, well, let's try it a different way or have you tried it on your other side or let's try it one more time or can I watch you try it?
So there's a balancing act between like those newer students or intermediate students that maybe need that encouragement but the more advanced people who have more of that mind-body connection, those I just let be sassy.
I had one, Yaddy Maddy, she posted a video of the other day of she's in this move, and I come by and I was like, hey, if you do this, then you'll be in this other move.
And she's in the move sassing me. And she's like, no, I am not.

[36:02] Okay, you do you, you're being safe. But it's just funny.
So there are days when sometimes the sass gets to me, but most of the time, I appreciate that people feel like they have a voice and that they feel like they can, they can say things because I don't know what their body is feeling today or any day.
I just, I don't, I wish, I wish that was my superpower because then I could like zero in and be like, Oh, that is like, let's, let's zero in on that and see if we can positively impact that.
But I do appreciate and I've noticed this is I've had a lot of students that are younger than me, like I get to be the old person in the room now, you know, this next generation that's like, I guess they're Gen Z, this Gen Z generation, like they're very good at setting boundaries.

[36:54] And they'll say, like, No, I'm not comfortable doing that. Or that scares me. They're very good at verbalizing not only what they will and won't do, but why they won't do it without you needing to pry too much. In general, I'm speaking in general terms from what I've experienced as an instructor. I've seen that and it's been such a relief to me. Whereas people that are more my age, let's say organ trail generation, I don't know if it was that we watched too many like the thrill of Victory, the Agony of Defeat, like VHS videos from like the 90s or something. But.

[37:35] We kind of have this like no pain, no gain mentality. And you talk about that a lot in your mobility classes that that's not the frame of mind you want to be in when you're trying to encourage your body to be more mobile. And so people that are more around my age, they're not going to speak up in class because they've internalized that no pain, no gain. If it doesn't hurt, I'm not doing it right. It's got to hurt. If it's not, pain is weakness leaving the body. There's this idea of you find your end point and then you push past it because that's the only way you're going to see success. And frankly, I was that student for a long period of time.
So it's dangerous and it's hard to find those students. You find them by seeing the pain face, but you've got to watch out for those students because they've internalized a methodology that we know doesn't work.
Mm-hmm.

[38:32] Yeah, I totally agree. And even though I have no human children, I clearly have great, whole grandchildren. And I do feel like people who are moms or who are caregivers tend to also just downplay their own feelings and push, just push through shit. And you're like, it's okay. I've had a lot of private classes where people just, this is, they don't want to pole dance. I know that sounds funny. Cause it's like, people are like, I'm looking at private to pole dance with you. They just want to talk and maybe that talking leads them to crying or expressing their feelings in some way or, you know, and I think that that is great that I get to hold space for somebody. And I think that that, again, as people who tend to be nurturers, you know, female presenting folks, this happens a lot, you know, you need that space. And it's interesting to hear about the next generation coming up because kudos to them for trying to, to establish boundaries, because boundaries are something that I am working on, but I don't have any right now.
But I think about them, so that's a good step in the right direction.
So I do agree, there's that level of helping people to have a voice and to make these connections, because it will make everything better, and you will have access to more information.
But getting to that point can be really challenging.

[40:00] Well, I think that's like, it's like the secret to the universe, having body awareness, thoracic mobility.

[40:09] But the nice thing about pole, I think a lot of people kind of end up getting addicted to pole or liking it.
It gives us an opportunity to be seen, whether it's us seeing ourselves or other people witnessing our greatness, whatever that is to us.
I think that's like, You know, that's part of why it's so addicting and and the only way to, To be seen then is you have to see yourself You have to build that awareness like you're talking about be able to speak up in class and let people know Hey, this isn't working for me. And why not? I think your book does a good job of like helping someone to like, Peace through that like oh, so this hasn't been working for me because XYZ. So I think it's really cool I'm glad that you wrote a book, Among everything else you do so ask this of all of my mom folks but I'm going to ask this of my poll mom as well. Okay, so you listed like 20 things, 20,000 things that you do in your life. That's a lot. So what goes by the wayside when you You have too much on your plate when you're overwhelmed.
How do you let go?
Yeah, I have zero social life. I'll just be completely honest, because people ask me all the time, they're like, how do you get all this stuff done? I'm like, I have no fun.

[41:24] I just work all the time. And there's a level of that that I appreciate. I am definitely like a Capricorn's Capricorn. I like to work hard. I want to provide value to folks. But fun, something that, and I define fun as something that doesn't produce something, something that's that sort of frivolous, like I remember reading, I try all sorts of different things.
Cause I'm like, again, I'm looking for that one, like drink beet juice in the morning and it's not there.
But I'm like, okay, bats, like Epsom salt bats. And so this is me, you know, sitting in the bath and I'm like, fucking waste of time.
How much more time in this fucking bath, fucking, fuck, fuck, fuck.
I went and I was in the, I participated in the filming for the liquid motion coal manual, which was a cool experience.
And so Jenny, because they were gonna do closeups of hands for RIP, she was like, you need to get your nails done.
And nails is something to me, and I understand everybody has different, for me, that falls under frivolous.
And so I was like, no. So she said, no, you're going to get your nails done.
I'm going to pay for it.
It's a business expense and I'm going to take you and you're going to do it.
And so as I'm getting my nails done, I'm just like, This is taking too long.
This is frivolous. This is da, da, da. So that is something that is a really big challenge for me.
And at least I am finally aware of it.

[42:52] Doing something about it is the next step and I'm not quite there yet.
Finding something that is just like totally registered as frivolous and being okay doing it is my struggle.
I get that. I really do. Like this podcast, like I don't know why I started it.
Like, do I have enough going on in my life? Absolutely. Why the hell did I do this?
I don't know. I just, I have to. I was trying to explain it to my husband.
I'm like, it's like, there is like something like a fire inside of me and it's burning and it's just all consuming.
And if you rest, it will erupt. Like, what are you doing sitting down? and it's so hard to.

[43:31] To recognize it, and then to sit with those feelings and be like, why do I feel that way?
Why can't I just sit and do nothing? Why can't I just sit and read a book? But I do like, for a while, you were posting books that you were reading, and I was screenshotting them and sending them to my friend. And we were like, hey, you want to read this one? So I think my husband and I are about halfway through the Mind-Gut Connection, which I think you read like two years ago. We're halfway through it. That's how much we read. That's awesome. Yeah, I was reading them all for research for my book. Yeah, the intent was there. The intent to read was there.
I saw a screenshot. I'm like, Hey, let's go read this book. And I think it's been two years and I'm halfway through it. You know, props to me. Progress. Yeah, progress. It's all there. It's all it's all a work in progress. There's no before and after photos. There's just we exist. It is what it is. Yeah, there's no end. I mean, the end to the race is you're dead. You know, like, Like, so there's no end.
Like, I feel like there's a lot of those milestones where you think like, oh, you know, when I graduate college or high school or when I get married or when I have my first whatever, and then you get to those milestones and you're like.

[44:42] Oh, I gotta wake up the next morning and brush my teeth and shower and do laundry.
And like, life just keeps going. So just try to figure out those places to enjoy that time as opposed to being like, once I hit this, I will be amazing.
You're like, oh, maybe you're already amazing.
Exactly. It's a journey, not a race.

[45:02] Well, if people want to buy your book, learn more about you, take your classes, because you're still teaching online, right?
Yeah, where can they go?
MobilityforPoll.com. MobilityforPoll.com. Awesome. And they can also check out your Instagram.
You have a link in bio that connects to all that stuff.
Yeah, all the different things. I'm just at Colleen Jolly on Instagram.
That's actually my government name.

[45:31] If you Google me, I own like the first two pages of Google. Very proud of that.
Yeah, reach out to me. I love talking to people, helping folks, you know, figure stuff out, yeah.
Yeah, one of my, it was my roommate from college, actually, I guess she and I fell out of touch, but I guess she's separately on her own randomly got into Poll, and she was on my Facebook page one day and saw that you commented on one of my posts and she's like, are you friends with the Colleen Jolly?
And very much her movement style is very similar to yours. So I can tell that she like, she really like, she idolizes you. Like you are her prototype of like, this is a pole dancer.
It gave me major street cred as to like who turned out okay post-college.
So I wanna thank you for being associated with me.
It makes me look cool to my old roommate.

[46:25] Oh my God, that's awesome. I'm just like... I'm just like...

[46:29] It's so silly. Yay. I'm glad I can contribute.
Yeah. Well, and also, of course, thank you for everything that you do for the poll community, and inspiring people, letting us know it's OK to be just as we are.
And we can still be amazing poll dancers.
And that's really, it's a really awesome message to send out to the universe.
So thank you so much.
Yay.
Well, thank you for inviting me on this podcast So I can chat with people and, you know, yeah, because I love I like talking.
So there you go. Awesome. Well, and I hope to see you at PolkCon in June.
Yeah, it's the second weekend in June.
Yep. And it's in the Maryland. It's in Maryland, right?
It's the DC area, but it's more the Maryland side, right?
Yeah, it's really close to the BWI airport. So which is a Southwest hub.
So if you're a Southwest flyer, super easy to get there.
Nice, awesome. I'm looking forward to it. I heard the rooms are already sold out, so it's going to be really fun.

[47:31] Yes. There's probably going to be a lot of people there, so we're expecting over 1,000. Yes, that's awesome.
I'm so excited. Well, Colleen, I will talk to you again soon, I'm sure.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Yay, thanks for having me.
Thank you so much for listening to today's episode, my friends.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please feel free to give us a big thumbs up, five star, like, subscribe, depending on what modality you happen to be listening in on.

[48:03] Check out the show notes below for ways that you can support this podcast, which is currently fueled by copious amounts of afternoon coffee by yours truly and a passion for supporting women in their pole and movement journeys.
Until next time, my friends, keep on dancing and remember there's enough spotlight for for all of us to shine.

[48:24] Music.